Conference misery::feline

    Come to think of it, Giudi, doesn't Pip have to eat this kind
    of food....
    

    She's mostly on Wiskas Expert which is chicken and rice.  I'm real
    pleased with how all three have taken to it.  Their coats are real
    glossy and the protein level is acceptable.  The Conditioner is at 9%
    and the Diet/Lite is at 8%.  I'm looking forward to them coming out
    with another flavor, hopefully in about a year or less, they told me.
    
    Giudi

    The Whiskas Expert is a great line, both canned and dry!  My cats scoff
    it!!
    
    The chicken and rice canned does smell wonderful for a cat food, as
    discussed in a previous note.  Pate' in disguise!!  (I know, I know, no
    one in Feline will ever come to my house for a gathering, sigh....)
    
    -Roberta
    

    There is a brand of canned lamb and rice cat food on the market called
    Lick Your Chops.  Also, Science Diet recently came out with their
    version of lamb and rice diets.  I entered a lengthy note about it in
    the old file.
    
    Jo

    I tried the Lamb/Rice from Lick your Chops and it was noses down from
    all three.
    
    Thank god I've got ferals down the street - I went through all of the
    foods that met the requirements - and as a result the cats in the
    garden have developed quite the "sophisticated palate (sp).
    
    Giudi

    I'm pretty sure Cleo has a food allergy problem.  Right now she is only
    eating Feline D/D by Hills, a lamb and rice diet.  The problem is they
    only have this in wet and I'd really like to find a dry food.  I called
    Hill's and they are having a hard time finding a supplier that can
    guarantee them the proteins they need for this food so can not offer DD
    in dry.

    To date I have tried: Science Diet Kitten, Iams Kitten, MAX kitten, and
    Pro Plan.  
    
    I was in a pet shop and noticed the Lick Your Chops and Neura.  And
    from this note I see there is also Whiskas Expert.  I think I want to
    try the Lick Your Chops next but if I remember correctly they don't
    have a kitten formula.  Cleo is only 9 mos. old, should I be concerned
    putting her on a cat formula at such a young age?  Should I supplement
    her diet with vitamins?
    
    If this and the other two fail I don't know what to do.  She eats only
    beacuse she is hungry not because she enjoys it.  By breed she's
    suppose to be a large cat, she only weighs about 6 lbs.!  Not that I
    mind her small size but it just makes me feel bad for her.
    
    ...Rania

    Re: .6
    
    What are Cleo's symptoms?  Is it possible to test some high quality dry
    food by giving her a little?
    

    Her symptons are scratching, predominately below her chin, and her
    lower lip gets red and puffy.  Yup, the only way to test foods is give
    her some and see what happens.  She's still got a scab on her chin from
    Pro Plan, which I tried in late July.
    
    I bought the Lick Your Chops Friday night and I'm crossing my fingers. 
    It's very bland, and she knows it.  She hasn't eaten a lot but if any
    food will work I'm pretty sure this will do it.  The only major
    difference between this and the d/d is that it has eggs.  With my luck
    she'll be allergic to eggs ;-))))
    
    ...Rania
    

    
    Just a thought.....
    Could it possibly be an allergic reaction to the dish!!  I heard
    of another cat being allergic to his plastic dish...and the symptoms
    were very similar!!
    
    Sandy
    

    
    Tried that too but she still got the itches.  I was hoping it was as
    easy as switching to metal from plastic!
    	
    ...Rania

    
    Rania .. just for kicks, try her with a glass dish instead.  Sweetie
    had this problem a while ago .. kept getting small sores on his chin. 
    We changed from a plastic dish to a glass one and there were no
    problems after that.  From what I've heard, Metal can cause the same
    thing.
    
    Holly
    

    Hi Holly,
    
    I don't think switching to glass will do anything for her.  She does
    fine on the D/D in a metal dish, it's when I try to get her to eat dry
    (in a metal dish) that she reacts.
    
    FWIW, she HATES the Lick Your Chops.  Even Spike, who'll eat almost
    anything won't touch the stuff unless very hungry.  I've tried mixing
    it with the wet but even that won't change her mind.  I can get her to
    eat if I serve it to her by the spoonful but even then she just takes a
    few bites.  And I really think this brand was going to work...boo hoo!
    
    I'm finally getting her spayed (Thursday) so I think I'll give it a
    rest.  I don't want her to be weak going into surgery.  Any chance
    her getting spayed will change her system so that she's no longer
    allergic?  
    
    ...Rania
    

    
>    I'm finally getting her spayed (Thursday) so I think I'll give it a
>    rest.  I don't want her to be weak going into surgery.  Any chance
>    her getting spayed will change her system so that she's no longer
>    allergic?  
    
no, surgery should have nothing to do with her allergies...however, in
some cases, as the animal ages, the allergy may become less significant.
This applies only sometimes, and ONLY if the animal is truly isolated
away from allergen.  Bottom line - there are no guarentees

    

    Wishful thinking on my part.   I was hoping a spay would do something
    miraculous!
    
    Has anyone heard of running allergy tests on cats?  I'd love to find
    out what ingredient(s) is at fault.  Trying out all the dry foods on
    the market is a pain for her, Spike and me.
    
    ...Rania
    

I am also trying to diagnos at this time whether Beau has a food allergy 
or not.  His symptoms are :

	scabbing on the face, (above and below the eyes, cheeks under 
	the chin)

    	A sore on his upper lip 

	lots of tearing/discharge from the eyes.

He has had this problem since last march.

He has been seen by my vet no fewer then 6 times and after every test 
immaginable . Skin scrappings cultures, ringworm everything came back 
negative.  He has been but on a number of different antibiotics which 
clears up the scabbing about 90% but as soon as he's off the meds it 
comes right back.  Now my vet feels it might be a food allergy.

He has been taken off all dry food, which was a mixture of Pro Plan, Iams 
and Science diet.  One of the noters mentioned her cat being allergic to 
Pro Plan that maybe the cause of the problem.

For the past week he has had nothing but Gerber Lamb baby food and 
Gerber strained spinach.  He is also on antibiotics, ointment for his 
eyes as well as drops for the liason on his lip which I don't recall 
the name of.  I also have a Elizabethan collar for him which he is 
suppose to where to prevent him from re-opening the scabs, but I havent 
put it on him because he can't eat or drink anything when he has it on 
and with me being at work all day I just dont think he should wear it 
when no ones around.  

I find it hard to believe that up until march he was fine, now all of a 
sudden he has developed food allergies.  How could this be?

Is this scabbing a major symptom of food allergies?

I just can't seem to get him all cleared up and it's been 6 months of 
dealing with this.

What is a mom to do?

Valerie

    Val,
    
    I have heard that a cat can eat the same food for years with no adverse
    affects, and then all of a sudden develop an allergy to it.  It
    certainly sounds like a frustrating thing to deal with, as it involves
    a lot of process of elimination techniques.
    
    There is a type of allergy called an inhalant allergy, meaning the cat
    is allergic to something in the environment.  I don't know much about
    it but have seen reference to it in the Cornell Book of Cats.
    
    It certainly sounds as though you have done everything for Beau, and I
    hope that some conclusions can be reached soon.  Has he been tested for
    hypothyroid?  This condition can produce scabbing and hair loss as
    well.
    
    Good luck.  I know Beau is your BABY and you'll get to the bottom of
    this soon!
    
    Hugs,
    Roberta
    

    I thought that the starting diet for allergy problems was lamb and
    rice.  I'm a little surprised at the spinach, but maybe I'm wrong.
    

    Valerie,
    
    Sorry to hear that you're going through the same frustration.  I
    thought the same thing, how come all of a sudden she's starting to get
    itchy, develop sores and be miserable?!?!?  Part of our problem was
    that Cleo DID have ringworm so I attributed her itchiness to the RW and
    not the food.
    
    When her RW started to clear and her face didn't my vet told me she
    thinks Cleo has a food allergy.  I didn't believe her because she was
    eating the same food for 3 months and never had this problem.  I
    finally listened to the doctor and put her on Hill's D/D.  Her
    itchiness has gone away so it definitely looks like a food allergy. 
    But now that I'm trying to find a dry food I'm going through hell.
                
    Has your vet recommended the D/D?  Nutritionally, Cleo could be on the
    D/D for the rest of her life but wet food only is a pain for me!  As I
    mentioned, I think the Lick Your Chops is my best chance at a dry
    formula but she hates it.  The 3 main ingredients are lamb meal, eggs
    and rice.
    
    I know humans with no allergies can develop allergies in their lifetime
    and also those currently with allergies can lose them.  So, I suppose
    the same can happen to felines.
    
    I don't have much help to offer but if I ever find a dry food for Cleo
    I'll be sure to pass it along.  I do recommend the D/D, though.
    
    Good Luck!
    
    ...Rania

    Is there a dry version of D/D?
    

    Nope, no dry d/d.  I called Hill's and they said they can't find anyone
    to guarantee them the dry version will be to their standards.  I
    thought this was weird as they've got a dry lamb/rice diet for dogs. 
    And there is another manufacturer who makes a lamb/rice dry formula for
    cats (Lick Your Chops).
    
    The woman at Hill's 800 number says they've got a lot of people who are
    looking for the d/d in a dry formula.  So she took my name/address and
    will add me to the list.  I'll be notified if they ever make a d/d dry.
    
    ...Rania

    Rania, 
    
    They do allergy testing on cats and dogs, but you have to find a
    specialist to have it done.  Ask your vet to refer you to one.  I had
    Joui done out here by a veterinary dermatologist.
    
    Jo

    Jo,
    
    Did you find it helpful to have Joui tested?  Did you have her tested
    because of supposed food allergies?
            
    I think it will be a lot easier on the three of us (Spike, Cleo & me)
    if she could be tested rather than the trial and error route.
           
    ...Rania

Beau is better but not anywhere near cured.  The scabbing is still all 
there.  I havent put the E-collar on because he cant seem to eat or 
drink or walk with it on.  He does seem to be scratching at it every now 
and then and making it worse.  If I left the collar on him would he 
eventually learn to manuver with it on?  It just looks like cruel and 
unusual punishment to me.....

He's been on this restricted diet for 2 weeks with very little 
improvement.  When I ask the vet could it really be food allergies? the 
response is "you gotta start somewhere".  How long do I need to keep him on 
this diet of Gerber Lamb baby food before I would see improvements.  And 
if we rule out food allergies, what else might it be?  He's been tested 
for paristies, ring worm, and everything else imaginable, everything was 
negative.

It's really upsetting me, that we can't seem to get to the bottom of 
this.  And with the show season starting. Who knows when I'll be able to 
take him out again... Oh well so goes life...

Is there something I may be overlooking??

Valerie

    Valerie,
    
    I think you're vet is right, "you've got to start somewhere".  I never
    thought Cleo would have allergies but I'm convinced now.
    
    About the e-collar.  Yeah, it looks cruel and restricting but it's a
    lot better than having him open up his sores.  Since Cleo is so tiny
    I've had to make it smaller.  I think I cut it too much because she is
    able to get a good scratch or two in if it's positioned just right.
    
    Cleo's chin still isn't 100% from her last dry food test and this was
    early August.  She doesn't scratch anymore but she's still got some
    redness and scabs.
    
    ...Rania

    It was very helpful to have Joui tested.  We found out she is allergic
    to molds.  So, now when her allergies flare up I give her 1/2 of a 4
    mg. tablet of chlorepheniramine three times a day.
    
    You have to stay on the lamb/rice diet for about three weeks before you 
    will see any improvement.  If you see no improvement, then you move on
    to some other type of allergy besides food.
    
    Joui gets crusty ears, face, and chin, and the bottoms of her paw pads
    get flaky.  The rest of her body stays relatively normal.
    
    Jo

    Well I can't believe this but for the last month Cleo has been eating
    Science Diet dry kitten formula.  I was completely frustrated with her
    not eating the Lick Your Chops so I decided to try the Science Diet dry
    one last time.  She has fattened up incredibly (maybe too much).  She
    does have some scabbing on the sides of her mouth but I think they just
    need to heal.  
    
    The real test will be next Spring.  She might not have a food allergy
    but something during the Spring/Summer might bother her.  I'm crossing
    my fingers that it was something she outgrew.
                                                  
    ...Rania

I have a himalayan/siamese/?  that seems to have fish allergies
A couple of times after feeding her tuna or the juice from a can
of salmon she really starts itching. 
I have tried finding catfood where fish isnt high on the list of ingredients
and it seems to calm down.
She licks herself (especially along her backbone) to the point
of creating raw, hairless spots.
Although it is hard to tell, because have you ever tried to find a catfood
with fish in it?  It's difficult. 
My landlady was telling me about a clip she saw on TV where they are finding
out that fish is not good for cats. Did anyone see that show?

Has anyone ever heard of this type of allergy?
Any ideas on a cat food without fish?


Thanks in advance

LJ

    LJ,
    
    In general fish is not the best thing for cats.  Okay for a treat but
    that's about it.  Most commercial foods that you buy in the grocery
    store contain fish as a cheap source of protein and as a flavor
    enhancer.  If the cat really goes for the food!!!  They will sell more!
    
    You didn't mention what brands you feed, but I would bet if you
    switched to one of the premium brands she would do much better.
    I would look at the labels of Iams, Max Cat and Natural Choice.
    Max is my personal favorite, but Iams just came out with a lamb and
    rice flavor that seems to do really well.  
    
    These that I have mentioned are in the dry form but most manufacturers
    also make a canned food.  Some of the Iams canned do have a little fish
    in it so just read the label.  Max canned has none.  You might also
    want to look into Hills Science Diet.
    
    These foods may cost a tad more, but you will also be feeding less and
    on top of that the cat will remain healthier, so ... fewer vet bills!!
    You have to look at the whole picture!  Good luck.
    Karen
    ps. if this does not seem to work you might want to check into a wheat
    allergy.

    I had a cat who is allergic to fish.  It's Silver, the cat that I
    needed to find a home for (who is now in an absolutely wonderful home).  
    
    Anyway, I had been feeding her IAMS for quite a while, until I read the
    fine print.  IAMS dry food DOES have fish in it.  However, their wet
    foods that don't say fish on the front of the label (ie, chicken,
    turkey, and beef and liver) do not have fish in them at all.  
    
    The only wet food I've found that doesn't have fish in it is Wiskas. 
    I've also found that Science Diet Dry doesn't have fish in it either.
    
    Good luck!  Silver has much worse allergies.  She gets little bumps all
    over her body!
    
    Holly
    

    
    We feed Shilo and Oliver CD.  We pick up a 10lb bag about once a month
    from the vets.  It cost a little more, but like Karen said, you have
    less vet bills.  I feel like they are getting a really good diet...
    
    Good Luck!
    
    
    *joyce
    

    Allergies.
    In the last couple of weeks a noter asked for advice for a cat that had
    licked bald spots.  I can't find that note ... but I'd like to share
    information that I just received.

    My little Nanu started licking her fur almost frantically. Over the
    last couple of weeks she lost a lot of fur ... rather than try and
    handle it myself we went to the vet (Amherst Animal Hospital, Dr.
    Brennen, in N.H).  I thought Nanu had fleas that I couldn't find or was
    being stressed out.  Dr. Brennen said that the 3 main causes of this
    behavior was 1) allergies 2) stress 3) parasites.  Dr. Brennen further
    said that cats develop allergies 'out of no where' just like humans.
    In almost 90% of the cases the allergy is caused by fish ... 

    All my cats are now in transition from Science Diet dry, and Fancy
    Feast wet, to Optinum Nature's Science (sorry ... just lost the
    correct name) both wet and dry -- lamb and rice, chicken and rice, etc.

    Nanu is on steroids for a total of 7 days.  Within 24 hours of her
    first steroid pill she has stopped the frantic licking, and is still
    having little attacks, but nothing like the fur removing sessions.
    
    Carel

    
    

    
    
    	Carel,
    
    	That was probably me.  =)  My siamese, Audrey, had been licking
    	herself raw.
    
    	She was given a shot of depo-medrol (?) and she's on diazepam.
    	In addition to her licking herself raw, she's been pooping right
    	outside the litter box.  Eric said he seems to think this is an
    	acting out in response to the annoyance she feels from the raw
    	spots on her belly.  Since the shot and the diazapan has been
    	started, she's stopped licking.  She's still pooping outside the
    	box though.  And yes, I did bring a stool sample with me but
    	nothing came of that.
    
    	JJ
    

    
    
    	OOps!  Forgot to say that none of my cats get any type of fish
    	food.
    
    	It can't be an allergic reaction from the new house, because she
    	started with the licking before we moved.
    
    	So it's probably from stress.... Gilligan attacks her constantly.
    	I'm hoping he'll stop as he gets older (he's still under a year
    	old)
    
    	JJ
    

    Just a heads up...mostly all store bought wet canned food has
    some type of fish in it.   Even if the can says Turkey...nornally
    you can look at the ingredients and find fish.
    
    Sandy 

    Orphie is "pulling" his fur out rather than licking it out. Sometimes
    I'll get home and it looks like there's been an all out cat fight with
    so much fur around.
    
    He's been to the vet several times and he does not have
    flees/mites/parasites in general, blood work was fine, no cause has yet
    been found. The vet has him on benadryl, which in my opinion isn't
    doing a thing. "I" seemed to notice that it started (at least where it
    was REALLY noticable) when we switched from 9 Lives to Whiskers. He,
    along with the others, also get's a little bit of Fancy Feast before my
    wife leaves for work in the morning. I wonder if he's having a reaction
    to the Whiskers/Fancy Feast.
    
    Steve

        ... Nanu began by pulling out clumps of her fur, as well as the frantic
    licking... the carpet was littered with it.  Nanu has the soft fur of a
    medium to long hair ... very soft and fine, unlike two of my other cats
    that are short stiffer hair like fur.

    If it's the allergy to fish, which another noter just commented on,
    then fish may be in grocery store cat food.  The Nature's
    Science is sold at PetSmart and PetCo here in Nashua.  And if it is
    an allergy perhaps steroids would help Orphie too - if your vet agrees.
    My vet didn't do blood work ... they've just seen so much of this.
    
    Carel

    One note about steroids - be careful about long term use,
    as they can cause health problems.  For example, Sweetie had
    to stop taking them for his asthma since they made his diabetes
    much worse.  (Fortunately, environmental controls then helped
    the asthma a lot.)
                  

    Even some of the cat foods bought in pet stores has fish in it.  read
    the labels VERY carefully.  Silver had a severe allergy to fish, and I
    even had to check all of the pet store foodsss, because IAMS definitely
    had fish in it.
    
    
    Ruby has had a similar problem.  No change in diet, no change in
    environment, no stress (except the baby who came 7 months ago, but this
    just started about two weeks ago).  The vet gave me a cream to put on
    it, and it seems to be clearing up.  No steriods or anything.  I don't
    know the name of the cream, but I can check it tonight.
    
    
    Holly
    

    There is a 4th cause, hyperthyroidism, but this is usually only seen in
    an eldery cat.
    
    My cat Harry has regrown all the fur he lost/pulled now that he is on a
    strict lamb/rice diet.
    
    Deb