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Conference misery::feline

Title:Meower Power - Where Differing Opinions are Respected
Notice:purrrrr...
Moderator:JULIET::CORDES_JA
Created:Wed Nov 13 1991
Last Modified:Fri Jun 06 1997
Last Successful Update:Fri Jun 06 1997
Number of topics:1079
Total number of notes:28858

166.0. "Toxoplasmosis" by WISDOM::TAYLOR (Just ONE happy thought ... fly!) Wed Jan 29 1992 14:41

Hi everyone,

I need some information on toxoplasmosis.  My future sister-in-law was 
looking for a cat.  She just found out that she's pregnant and her VET
told her about toxoplasmosis!  It scared her so much that she now refuses
to get a cat.

I've told her that it's just a wive's tale.  I've told her that it's only 
transmitted through the litterbox and to just have her husband empty the 
box, but she's still scared and now refuses to get a cat.  

What's worse is that now my fiance has heard this.  He wasn't to thrilled
about all of the cats anyway (he doesn't mind cats, but not seven of them).
Now he's questioning whether we should get rid of the cats when we decide
to have children later on!!  aaaaaarrrrrrggggggghhhhhhhH!!!!!!!


There's a nice little baby that's waiting for a nice home.  Cassie would
be prefect for Michele, but she just got scared by her vet.  And I've GOT
to convince my fiance!

Any comments on this?  Any information that anybody has would be greatly
appreciated!

thanks.

Holly
T.RTitleUserPersonal
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166.1OXNARD::KOLLINGKaren/Sweetie/Holly/Little Bit Ca.Wed Jan 29 1992 14:577
    Holly, what about calling your own vet for nifo?  All I remember is that
    toxoplasmosis is a perfect excuse to get hubby to change the litter
    box, and a reason to not garden without gloves, but my "impression"
    is that that's all there is to worry about.  I'll see if I can find
    something in my books. You're not going to marry him unless he
    signs a premarital contract to keep the cats, right :-)
    
166.2One can get toxo from Raw Meat too!MIVC::MTAGWed Jan 29 1992 15:5215
    I had a pamphlet at home that was shipped my way when I was pregnant. 
    It told all about toxo and how to contact it.  Tell you friend she is
    more likely to contact toxo from handling raw hamburger meat (preparing
    burgers or meatloaf) or raw chicken (cleaning) than she is from a
    litter box.  I have 3 cats and was tested for toxo when I found out I
    was pregnant.  I tested positive, which meant I had at some point in
    time been exposed.  Because of this exposure, I had an immunity built
    up in my system that would protect my unborn baby.  My pregnancy went
    normal and I had a beautiful daughter 20 months ago.
    
    If I can find this info on toxo, I'll copy it and send it to you.  Tell
    your friend (and boyfriend) not to worry.
    
    Mary
    
166.3JUPITR::KAGNOKitties with an AttitudeWed Jan 29 1992 20:3814
    My vet has a two year old and a newborn.  Her husband is a *VET*
    himself and he refused to handle litterbox duty (no pun intended!)
    while she was pregnant.  Linda wasn't worried.  She simply wore gloves
    (I think) and took precautions.  She said you have more of a chance
    contracting toxo by eating raw meat (or your cat's feces if you
    consider them a delicacy) than by just scooping and changing litter
    boxes.
    
    Some people merely overreact.  When my neighbor was expecting, her
    husband flipped out if she even went in the same room as the
    litterboxes.  So, he was responsible for scooping and changing.  If
    your fiance is that worried, just make it his responsibility.  The
    chances of contracting toxo are slim to none.
    
166.4STUDIO::PELUSOPAINTS; color your corralThu Jan 30 1992 09:149
    Holly....
    
    If she is pregnant, she'll be seeing a dr soon, right?  Maybe her own
    dr. can help calm her fears.
    
    Michele
    
    (with her fingers crossed  ;^)
    
166.5BOOVX2::MANDILEAlways carry a rainbow in your pocketThu Jan 30 1992 10:184
    Well, I wouldn't count on a Dr. calming fears about this
    subject.  Many of them feel the same way....
    
      Pregnant?  Get rid of the cats!  )-:
166.6some basic rulesFORTSC::WILDEwhy am I not yet a dragon?Thu Jan 30 1992 12:4830
Medical people can be shockingly ignorant about this disease unless they
have cats.

Some rules to live by if you are concerned:

	keep your cats indoor-only - if they aren't infected now, they
	won't get infected unless exposed to vectors for infection...other
	cats who are infected.

	Get tested.  Likely you already have immunity due to exposure
	to other sources of infection.  As already mentioned, hamburger
	or other beef/veal cuts of meat are a much more likely source
	of infection.  Raw chicken is a known source of lots of uglies.  

	Use sanitary procedures when handling meat or chicken, washing
	your hands with an anti-bacterial soap right after handling
	raw meat or poultry (Almay makes a liquid soap that is good to
	your hands).  Never use a cutting surface that has been used
	for raw meat for anything else until it has been washed thoroughly
	with HOT water and soap...in fact, a wash of bleach and water is
	a good idea with a good rinse after.  I have two cutting boards..
	one only for meat, one for other things.

	Never, never eat raw meat.  Cook at least to medium rare; pink,
	but not raw.

	Don't lose sleep over it - it isn't that common that an adult
	gets this stuff..if you haven't been exposed by now, you aren't
	likely to get it.

166.7Try Parenting Notes File TooMIVC::MTAGFri Jan 31 1992 12:466
    Just had a thought... 
    You might want to read the Parenting notes file on this subject.  I
    believe it's been discussed there many time.  (NOTED::PARENTING).
    
    Mary
    
166.8Symptoms of ToxoCRUISE::NDCPutiput Scottish Folds DTN:297-2313Mon Aug 17 1992 10:534
    Does anyone know the symptoms of Toxoplasmosis?
    In a human that is.....
      Nancy
    
166.10Human pregnancy and catsXCUSME::MACINTYREMon Sep 14 1992 15:3720
    I have heard something about pregnant women should not be around cats,
    specifically cat litter boxes.  I don't have any firm information and
    would appreciate your shared knowledge.
    
    - should pregnant women avoid cats?
    - should    "       "     "   cat boxes?
    - should    "       "   remove cats from their homes?
    - is it okay for a pregnant woman to live with a cat in the house as
      long as she doesn't clean the litter box?
    
    Any other information on this subject would be greatly appreciated.
    
    Marv
    
    P.S.
     My wife is not pregnant but we are trying.  We have a kitten that's
    about 13 weeks old and we love him very much.  However, if Joyce
    becomes pregnant, and cats are a problem then Jazz will have to leave
    us for at least 9 months.
    
166.11OXNARD::KOLLINGKaren/Sweetie/Holly/Little Bit Ca.Mon Sep 14 1992 15:476
    This is about toxoplasmosis(sp?).  Someone else can presumably give
    better information, but my impression is that, first of all, your wife
    may have already been exposed, in which case she needn't worry (a blood
    test can tell if she's been exposed), and that if she hasn't, you get
    to clean the litter box for the appropriate number of months.
    
166.12They like to scare you!ERLANG::FALLONKaren Fallon "Moonsta Cattery"Mon Sep 14 1992 16:2113
    Karen is correct!  Humans can be infected with toxoplasmosis without
    ever seeing a cat!  It comes from meats (beef) that are rare or
    undercooked.  It generally is not a problem.  The cat if it has been
    kept indoors and never fed raw meats will more than likely NOT have
    this.  If it is an outdoor cat and eats "things" it will shed these
    little micro buggers in their waste. Therefor, either you do litter
    duty or your wife can wear gloves and just use general cleanly care!
    My doctor suggested I get rid of the cat when I was pregnant and told
    him where I would get another doctor!!!! Good luck and don't worry.
    This is one of those things that gets blown out of proportion.  Your
    wife is more likely to be bitten by a rabid bat or get Lyme disease!
    (not from your cat though!)
    Karen
166.13SPEZKO::RAWDENImelda needs new shoesMon Sep 14 1992 16:261
    Check Feline V1 - notes 2011 and 3573 are dedicated to toxoplas....
166.14Long Note WarningROCKS::LMCDONALDFri Sep 18 1992 05:5810
    
    For those of you using Windows Notes, the following reply is very long.
    It contains a medical description of Toxoplasmosis and its signs and
    symptoms.
    
    Please remember that most of the advice given in this note string is
    valid. Toxo. is rarely a problem for pregnant mothers and there is
    certainly no reason to get rid of your cats when you are pregnant. 
    
    LaDonna
166.15Medical DescriptionROCKS::LMCDONALDFri Sep 18 1992 05:59141
    
    
    This is probably too late for the basenoter but might be useful for 
    someone later on.  I used to be a nurse in a former life and the
    following comes from one of my books, "The Merck Manual of Diagnosis
    and Therapy".  It is the 1977 edition so is a bit out of date for
    things like AIDS but should still be accurate for Toxoplasmosis.
    Some of the terms are very medical so I will put my comments in 
    square brackets []. 
    
    Please remember that the language that this book uses is such that it 
    discusses extremely rare events as if they were everyday occurances.  
    For example it will say things like "In most cases the disease will...". 
    What you must remember is that the book does not say anything about the 
    statistical occurence of these cases. It might be talking about 1 case in 
    5 or it might be talking about 1 case in 500,000.  Statistical occurences 
    of disease are not covered by this book it is there to assist doctors in 
    making a differential diagnosis and suggesting a therapy.
    
    Congenital Toxoplasmosis is very rare and you can reduce your risk
    further by keeping your animals indoors so they do not have the chance
    to consume infected animals, and by using good handwashing at all times
    especially after handling uncooked meat of any kind. (I don't know
    anyone who deliberatly handles cat poo, but the cats could track it
    from the box to the floor to you.)
    
    						LaDonna
     
    
    
    				Toxoplasmosis
    
    
    A severe generalized or CNS [Central Nervous System]  disease caused by
    Toxoplasma gondii.  Asymptomatic [meaning there are no symptoms]
    infections are common; serologic [blood test] surveys show that 7 to
    94% of various populations are infected .  The disease occurs
    worldwide.
    
    Etiology and Pathogenesis [what causes it and the life cycle of the disease]
    
    T. gondii is a small intracellular [lives inside cells] protozoan
    [single celled animal] parasite that can infect any warm blooded
    animal. [This would include birds.]  It invades and multiplies
    asexually within the cytoplasm of nucleated host cells. [cells that
    have a nucleus]  With the development of host immunity, multiplication
    slows and tissue cysts are formed.  Sexual multiplication occurs in the 
    intestinal cells of cats (and apparantly only cats); oocysts [cysts
    that are like eggs] form and are shed in the stool.  Transmission may
    occur transplacentally, by ingestion of raw or undercooked meat
    containing tissue cysts, or, perhaps most importantly, by exposure to
    oocysts in cat feces. [I am at a loss as to why the author thinks the 
    last method is most important.  I handle far more raw meat than I do 
    cat poo.]
    
    Symptoms and Signs
    
    NEONATAL CONGENITAL TOXOPLASMOSIS is acquired transplacentally, the
    mother presumably having acquired a primary infection shortly before or
    during pregnancy.  Abortion [medical term for early miscarriage] may 
    ensue if infection occurs early in pregnancy.  Infection later in 
    pregnancy may result in miscarriage or stillbirth, or in the birth of a
    living child with clinical disease.  The disease may be severe,
    fulminating, and rapidly fatal, or there may be no symptoms at all.   
    Symptoms of subacute [not as severe as described above] infection may
    begin shortly after birth, but more often appear months or several
    years later. 
     
    [I have omitted a large list of things that it causes, usually to do with 
    the central nervous system , ie. the brain and spinal column or with
    the eyes]
    
                     Blindness and severe mental retardation may result. 
    Chronic disease, with relapses, occurs in patients who survive the
    subacute phase.  Visceral lesions [damage or injury to internal organs], 
    aside from those in the liver, are unusual and heal more readily than 
    CNS lesions.
    
    
    ACQUIRED TOXOPLASMOSIS is seldom symptomatic and is usually recognised
    serologically [with a blood test]. However, symptomatic infection may
    present in any of 3 ways:  [remember this is rare]
    
        1. The more common ["common" in the sense that in the rare case 
    that does show symptoms these are the symptoms that are usually seen] 
    mild lymphatic form resembles infectious mononucleosis.  It is charac- 
    terized by cervical and axillary lymphadenopathy [enlarged lymph nodes 
    in the neck and under arms], malaise [uneasy and uncomfortable feeling], 
    muscle pain and irregular low fever. Mild anemia, hypotension [low blood 
    pressure], leukopenia, lymphocytosis [irregularity in specific types of
    blood cells], and altered liver function may be present.
    	2. An acute, fulminating, disseminated infection occurs primarily
    in immulogically incompetent patients, [patients with poorly functioning 
    immune systems, like transplant patients] often with a rash, high fever,
    chills and prostration. Some patients may develop meningoencephalitis
    [infection of the layers around the brain], hepatitis, pneumonitis
    [type of lung infection], or myocarditis [infection of the sack around
    the heart].
    	3. Chronic toxoplasmosis causes severe retinochoroiditis (posterior
    uveitis) [infection of one of the layers of the retina], muscular weakness,
    weight loss, headache, and diarrhea may be present.  Symptoms are vague and
    indefinite and diagnosis is difficult.  In the USA, uveitis is seldom
    due to Toxoplasma infection. 
    
    
    Diagnosis
    
    The Sabin-Feldman (SF) and indirect flourescent antibody (IFA) tests
    are the most useful serologic tests; SF and IFA titers are comparable.
    Because Toxplasma antibodies are commonly present in the general
    population, serologic diagnosis requires a change from a negative to a
    positive result, a rapidly ascending titer, or maintenance of a high
    titer.
    
    The CF test becomes positive more slowly than the SF test, and is
    useful when SF titers are elevated and stable.  Active infection is
    then indicated when the CF test becomes positive or increases in titer.
    Serologic test may remain positive long after convalescence.
    
    The parasite has been isolated during the acute phase of the disease by
    injecting mice with biopsy material from lymph nodes, muscle, or other
    tissues.
    
    
    Prognosis
    
    The prognosis is poor in neonatal congenital toxoplasmosis.  Affected
    children die in infancy or suffer chronic destructive CNS lesions.  The
    prognosis in acquired postnatal toxoplasmosis is good for patients who 
    survive the accute phase and for those detected in the subacute phase. 
    The general mildness of postnatally acquired infection is indicated by
    the large number of persons with latent or cured toxoplasmosis, and by
    the fact that the disease is rarely fatal in adults.
    
    
    Treatment
    
    [I have omitted this because the book is out of date and this may no
    longer be valid.]
    
                   
166.16SX4GTO::WELLINGFri Sep 18 1992 13:075
Re -1

Thanks for sharing that. I'm going to keep it for future reference.

Laura
166.17my kitten died of ToxoplasmosisCSLALL::MORINlife gets better and betterTue Oct 03 1995 15:5256
    
    
    I feel I must add to this note.  I would also like some input.
    
    I selected 2 kittens from Pat Brodies last Feb., brother and sister 
    littermates and the same father I would guess from the markings. 
    
    They were the sweetest little things that we enjoyed very much.  We
    cared for them well, took them to the vet for all their shots and
    checkups.  In June Merlin started acting a little under the weather but
    not very sick.  But he didn't get better after a few days.  I did not
    notice that he was vomitting and he did not have diarrea.  I took him
    to the vet and they kept him there.  Gave him fluids and antibiotics.
    He had a fever.  I discovered that a cats ears are a good indicator of
    its temp.  Merlin was there for 4 days and never got better.  He
    developed pneumonia.  Merlin died and the vet was not sure why.  We
    agreed to an autopsy because I was concerned about Penny, his sister. 
    The vet suspected toxoplasmosis.  The autopsy confirmed it but the vet
    was still not happy with the conclusion.  He said that they had not
    seen an animal die of it in many many years.  He said that any animal
    that goes outside will get this parisite and that most animal have it.
    He said that he suspected that some other stress was going on in his
    body but it was not evident.  We were very sad for Merlin was a
    wonderful cat.  We had Penny tested because we were concerned for her. 
    The test came back negitive.
    
    We went back to Pat Brodies to get another cat for Penny.  We got a
    sweet little yellow tiger we named Grover.  The two adjusted very well
    to each other.
    
    Well..I noticed Monday morning that Penny was not herself.  She is a
    very hyper cat and she has her rituals which she was not partaking in.
    She was sleeping in her little basket and did not want her breakfast. 
    I did not want to take any chances so off to the vet we went. She had a
    slight fever. They kept her over night, gave her fluids and antibiotics.
    I called this morning and she still has a slight fever so they are
    still keeping her.  I am now worried.  This is like Merlin all over
    again.  Grover is fine.  My neighbors cat is fine.  I can not figure
    out what is going on.  We had a cat for 18 years who just died of
    cancer in Feb.  He was fine.  Rarely sick.  If anything happens to
    Penny we will want to get Grover another playmate.  I am afraid that
    Pat Brodies will think we are a poor risk.  We are good to these cats. 
    They do go outside but we live in a great neighborhood for cats to roam
    in.  The yard is a great place for them to play and they can go into
    our neighbors yard with not risk.  Out neighbors like them.
    
    This illness is a strange one and I am not sure if the vets understand
    it.  It is not easy to detect either.  If anyone can add any light to
    this I would appreciate it.  I know these cats were well cared for but
    I can't help but feel responsible is some way.
    
    
    Worried about Penny who will be one year old in November.
    
    
    Sue
166.18USCTR1::MERRITT_SKitty CityWed Oct 04 1995 08:0520
    Sue,
    
    First...my prayers are with you and Penny.  Don't drive yourself
    crazy thinking Penny has Toxoplasmosis...that is a very rare
    disease.   Request that your vet do some tests to try to
    determine her problem.  Please keep us posted.
    
    Don't worry about the Priscilla at the Pat Brody Shelter....
    if you do have to go back there and hopefully you won't because
    Penny will be fine, just talk to Priscilla.   I'm sure she will
    ask you a zillion questions...but just let her know what
    you have done for your cats.   Everyone at one point in time
    will mysteriously lose a cat or kitten to some disease that
    is questionable.  It happens to all....it has happened at
    the shelter too....    
    
    Don't use your energy about worrying what could happen...put
    all your good thoughts into getting Penny better.
    
    Sandy
166.19Penny updateCSLALL::MORINlife gets better and betterWed Oct 04 1995 12:4130
    
    
    Here is the update.  
    
    I talked with the vet, Dr Hardy at Concord Animal Hsp.  He said she is
    eating but still running a temp.  They are concerned especially due to
    the Merlin illness.  They are going to:
    
    Put her on new antibiotics that work with Toxoplasmosis
    Give her medication to reduce the fever
    Test her for Toxoplasmosis, result will be in tomorrow
    Test her for FIV, result in today
    Test her for Leukemia, result in today
    He said even though she had her shots it doesn't mean that she would
    not get FIV or leukemia.  She may have been tested at the shelter but
    if she had resently been exposed it may not have shown up.  He said 
    that Toxoplasmosis is common but rarely causes problems unless there
    is something else going on in the body.
    
    First we need to see what is going on with her and from there we can
    address any precautions that need to be taken with Grover.  I am also
    concerned about my mothers cats.  They are also littermates.  
    
    So...I hope there is something they can do but as time goes on I am 
    not very optomistic.  Merlin was jaundice but then I didn't take him
    right away as I did Penny.
    
    Thank you for your reassurance.
    
    Sue
166.20PADC::KOLLINGKarenWed Oct 04 1995 12:465
    I don't want to raise false hopes, but I think FIV is usually
    accompanied by diarrhea when it is acute, and Penny doesn't
    seem to have that problem.  Also, I think FeLV normally takes
    quite longer than this to become serious...  I think...
    
166.21Vet looking at everythingCSLALL::MORINlife gets better and betterWed Oct 04 1995 13:0810
    I hope you are right but then what on earth could it be?  It is very
    strange that both cats were this ill.  
    
    Dr. Hardy did say that Merlin was jaundice and that Penny isn't.
    
    Meanwhile at home Grover must be lonely for he is demanding a lot of
    attention from us.  He is so sweet and wants to be cuddled more than
    usual.  
    
    
166.22POWDML::VENTURABad spellers of the world, UNTIE!!Wed Oct 25 1995 10:2245
    Hello everyone.. SOrry I've been SO quiet in here.  Things at my new
    job are VERY busy.
    
    However, I have a slight problem.  Following is the story:
    
    About 5 years ago, I gave a cat to a good friend of mine who really
    needed someone to love after her boyfriend broke up with her.  She has
    fallen in love with Legacy, and has told me numerous times that Legacy
    is the best gift that anyone has ever given to her.  My friend moved to
    Texas about three years ago to go to a new job.
    
    Well, last christmas, my friend had kidney failure.  She was quite sick
    for a long time, and Legacy never left her side.  She told me one story
    about how she was litterally getting out of bed every half hour to hour
    to vomit, and Legacy followed her from the bed to the bathroom, back to
    bed.  She'd cry outside the bathroom door if my friend didn't let her
    in.
    
    Well, My friend has been on dialisys three times a week since then. 
    She finally was able to get a kidney and pancreas transplant (YAY!!)
    about a month ago, and will be in rehabilitation for the next 4-6
    months.  She has to have someone look after Legacy for that time, as
    she will be away from home and can't have the cat around.  
    
    Here's the problem.... Her doctor has told her that she needs to get
    rid of the cat due to the risk of Toxoplasmosis.  From what she says,
    because of the medication that she's on, she's about two steps above an
    AIDS patient as far as being susseptable to diseases.  However, Legacy 
    is an indoor kitty and she has no other cats.  She does not feed her
    any raw meet, and has someone who will come take care of the litterboxes.  
    However, while she was on the operating table, there was some
    complications and she died for two minutes.  The doctor has scared her
    enough that she sees no other choice but to find a home for Legacy.
    
    so.. if you've read this far .. (-; .. I have a few questions..
    
    1)  How common is it for an indoor kitty to get toxoplasmosis
    2)  Does anyone have any ideas of what she can do to avoid
        toxoplasmosis
    3)  Does anyone have any suggestions as to what I can tell my friend?
    
    Thanks everyone!
    
    Holly
    
166.23PADC::KOLLINGKarenWed Oct 25 1995 11:2416
    Holly, what your friend's doctor has told her is rubbish.  Cats who
    contract toxo are only contagious for about two weeks out of their
    entire lives, when the toxo is in an initial stage - after that, there
    is no danger to your friend.  So, if the cat has already contracted
    toxo and has passed thru the two week stage, there is no danger.  If
    the cat has not had toxo but is indoors only, there is no danger it
    will contract toxo.  If your friend has alreay been exposed to toxo,
    as many people have, usually NOT from cats, but from handling raw
    meat, etc. (a blood test can tell if she has) there is no danger.
    Geesh.  I suspect the Cornell Vet hotline at 1-800-KITTYDR can give
    her any additional reinforcement your friend needs.  (Too bad they
    can't do human doctoring! sounds like her human doctor is an
    ignoramous.)
    I'm sure her kitty is crucial to her emotional strength during this
    ordeal.
    
166.24POWDML::VENTURABad spellers of the world, UNTIE!!Wed Oct 25 1995 11:4412
    Karen.. thank you so much for the information.  I'll call my friend
    tonight with the information you gave me, as well as the phone number
    to call.
    
    The line that her doctor used to really scare her was "You've already
    died once.. are you willing to risk your life for a 12 lb. tabby?"
    
    Ugh.... hopefully she'll take this information to heart and will keep
    legacy.
    
    Holly
    
166.25HELIX::SKALTSISDebWed Oct 25 1995 12:0112
    Holly,
    
    I don't have a copy of the Cornell Book on cats, but I'd bet there
    would be an article about this (which could be photocopied and shown to
    the doctor). Also, someone at Tufts might have some printed material 
    that could be shown to the doctor. (I suspect that the written word
    from an "authority" might have more sway over this doctor then just
    verbal info.
    
    good luck to your friend.
    
    Deb
166.26After All, They're *Part* of my LifePCBUOA::FEHSKENSlen - reformed architectWed Oct 25 1995 13:1710
    
    >are you willing to risk your life for a 12 lb. tabby?
    
    It's probably easier to say this not being in her situation, but I'm
    almost certain I'd tell my doctor:
    
      "Absolutely".
    
    len.
    
166.27PADC::KOLLINGKarenWed Oct 25 1995 14:212
    Me. too.
    
166.28CRONIC::SHUBSHoward S ShubsWed Oct 25 1995 15:553
re .24:

Perhaps she'll even find a doctor who doesn't speak from ignorance.
166.29Furry kidsSMURF::MSCANLONalliaskofmyselfisthatiholdtogetherWed Oct 25 1995 18:0115
    My doctor gave me basically the same song and dance
    when I first came to her as an asthma patient.
    
    "These animals could kill you, you know."
    
    "Gee, Doc, if you want me to get rid the animals,
    it's a good thing I don't have any kids."
    
    "I wouldn't tell you to get rid of your children,"
    
    "Good, then I guess you understand the situation."
    
    Never had another problem (and I'm still alive) :-)
    
    Mary-Michael
166.30Wish I'd said that!AXPBIZ::SWIERKOWSKISNow that we're organized, what's next?Wed Oct 25 1995 20:0011
re .29

BRAVO!!!!!!!!!!

I wonder whether this doctor has ever considered a patient's state of mind 
during recovery.  Most doctors realize that a depressed person will have a 
tougher time bouncing back.  A person who has such a strong bond with a 
kitty would be very depressed without her companion.  Tell the doctor to 
pound sand!  Or, at least insist on speaking with another doctor.

				SQ
166.31Whoa!!!!!PCBUOA::FALLONThu Oct 26 1995 12:2425
    Holly,
    
    Getting rid of Legacy is the last thing she should do!!
    
    First, has her doctor tested her for exposure already, if so,
    it shouldn't be a problem. Second, test the cat!
    
    If kitty is indoor only, it has a really great chance of
    not being exposed ( unless say a mouse breaks in, gets eaten
    and was a carrier).  Don't feed raw meat to the cat.
    
    Also, it is much more common for a human to get toxo from 
    eating raw/rare meat or just from the handling of raw meat.
    Most people have already been exposed. Cat or no cat.
    
    Considering all this cat is and has done for your friend, I think
    it not too wise of him (dr.) to suggest the dismissal of the cat. 
     What an animal does for our health
    can be greater sometimes than medication/psychotherapy.
    
    Will you take the cat back though, if she can't keep it?
    Karen
    Moonsta
    
    
166.32POWDML::VENTURABad spellers of the world, UNTIE!!Thu Oct 26 1995 13:0024
    RE: Karen...
    
    Yes, I've told her that I will take the cat back if I can't keep it. 
    That was one of the major stipulations when I gave legacy to her.  
    
    I talked with my friend last night and told her what I had found out. 
    I told her that I'm having a pamphlet sent to her explaining
    toxoplasmosis.  She also explained where the doctor is coming from. 
    Evidentally, they had a woman in there about a year ago who died from
    toxoplasmosis.  It was a pretty ugly death.  He just doesn't want to
    see my friend go through the same thing.
    
    Also, they are giving her copies of pages from their medical books that
    says just the opposite of a few things I told her.  The main thing is
    that the medical book said that 97% of cats carry the toxoplasmosis
    disease and they are the most likely source.  Ugh.... This poor woman
    has basically accepted the fact that she's going to have to find a home
    for Legacy.  But I'll do my absolute best to make her realize that she
    doesn't have to.
    
    Thanks everyone for your encouragement!
    
    Holly
    
166.33PADC::KOLLINGKarenThu Oct 26 1995 13:359
    I don't know what percentage of cats have had toxo, but the
    crucial fact is that they can only spread it once, within a --
    two week -- period.  Also, there is a major difference between
    indoor and outdoor cats.  Ditto the testing to see if she has
    already been exposed.
    
    It sounds to me like the doctor has totally wigged out.  I hope
    his human medical advice is more accurate that this, grumble, grumble.
    
166.34CPDW::REILLYThu Oct 26 1995 18:3056
    You should have your friend's physician talk to a veterinarian. 
    They're really the doctors who are trained in zoonotic diseases, and
    can update the physician with the proper information.
    
    Toxo is actually a more common cause ofdeath these days because of AIDs
    and other immune suppressed conditions that are occuring (like chemo
    and transplant patients).  So,many physicians will have had some
    contact with human patients that have active toxo infections.
    
    However, everyone here has stated correct information.  The most common
    way for toxo to be spread to humans is by handling raw meat - a
    definite fact - I can give you sources from a number of veterinary
    medical books.  Many people have been exposed to toxo & will have an
    antibody titer to it.  The doctor should test your friend for a toxo
    titer.  Generally a healthy titer is protective, however your friend is
    immune suppressed, so having a toxo titer will basically show that she
    is already exposed to toxo & can't get "re-exposed" to it.  Toxo goes
    dormant after it's initial infection (in cats & humans) - immune
    suppression can bring out an active toxo infection (in both cats &
    humans).  Most immune suppressed patients who get sick from toxo were
    infected long before they became immune suppressed & their sickness is
    a re-activation of dormant toxo.
    
    Your friend can test her cat.  If her cat has an antibody titer, it is
    highly unlikely that it will shed eggs.  Toxo eggs are shed for a pd of
    two weeks at the time of initial infection.  Cats usually get the toxo
    from eating rodents/etc.  However, cats can shed again if they get sick
    again - this is *very* rare, so rare that veterinary texts differ on
    what they report - some text state that cats can only shed once, others
    mention that re-activation of a patent infection can cause some
    shedding.  
    
    Whether or not the cat has a titer, your friend can protect herself in
    a number of ways.  First & foremost - do not handle raw meat!!  She
    should not change her cats litterbox, and whomever changes it should
    remove feces *every* day.  The eggs shed by toxo require a number of
    hours (48, I believe) in the environment before they become infective &
    capable of causing the disease in others.  Exposure before the
    activation time doesn't cause infection.
    
    It is unfortunate, but your friend's physician is ignorant about toxo. 
    That physician isn't alone, there are many physicians who advocate
    getting rid of pets in a household with immune suppressed individuals. 
    Definitely call the Cornell hotline listed in a previous note.  Talk to
    a vet.  As a 3rd year vet student, I can assure you that veterinarians
    are highly trained in zoonotic diseases & will give you straight
    answers (if for no other reason than the high liability involved in
    giving advice on zoonotic diseases).  Please have your friend talk to a
    vet before she makes any decisions about her cat.  
    
    It's great that you will be there to take her cat should she decide that 
    she doesn't want to take any chances, no matter how small.  You are a 
    good friend - to both your friend & to the cat.  All the best to you all!!
    
    Regards,
    liz
166.35PADC::KOLLINGKarenThu Oct 26 1995 19:576
    This reminds me that there is an organization in San Francisco
    called PAWS (Pets Are Wonderful Support), which helps people
    with AIDS care for their pets -- they do vet trips, bring pet
    food, etc.  I'm sure they'd have a few choice words to say to
    your friend's doctor :-)         
    
166.36POWDML::VENTURABad spellers of the world, UNTIE!!Thu Nov 16 1995 12:0625
    Update on my friend and Legacy...
    
    I received the information from Cornell University and have faxed it to
    her this morning.  She is going to have Legacy tested to see if she's
    been exposed to toxo, then she is going to have herself tested. 
    However, I have a strange feeling that if both of them come back
    negative, I will be getting Legacy back.
    
    One of the main reasons I think I'll get her back is because of one of
    the lines in the brochure that I received from Cornell.  
    "In immunocompromised persons - those undergoing immunosuppressive 
    therapy (e.g., for cancer or organ transplantation) or those with an
    immunosuppressive disease such as AIDS - enlargement of the lymphnodes, 
    ocular and central-nervous-system disturbances, respiratory disease, 
    and heart disease are among the more characteristic symptoms.  In these 
    patients - especially those with AIDS - relapses of the disease are 
    common, and the mortality rate is high."
    
    My friend is scheduled to go back home within a week.  She's been doing
    remarkably well.  I'll keep everyone updated, but please, if ANYONE
    knows of a good home for a purebred cream tabby brittish shorthair that
    has been declawed, PLEASE let me know.  
    
    Holly
    
166.37PADC::KOLLINGKarenThu Nov 16 1995 13:164
    What happens after your friend goes thru the 4-6 months
    of recovery?  Is she still in a medically vulnerable condition?
    Might she be able to take Legacy back then?
    
166.38POWDML::VENTURABad spellers of the world, UNTIE!!Thu Nov 16 1995 14:058
    I don't think so.  She says that because of the drugs that she's on,
    she will still be very susseptable to diseases.  At least I THINK
    that's what she said!  
    
    I'll check with her.  Thanks, Karen.
    
    Holly
    
166.39HELIX::SKALTSISDebThu Nov 16 1995 15:414
    Is she on a lot of steroids (like prednosone)? Those are
    immunosupressive drugs.
    
    Deb
166.40POWDML::VENTURABad spellers of the world, UNTIE!!Fri Nov 17 1995 10:457
    Deb,
    
    No, she's on anti-rejection drugs, due to her kidney and pancreas
    transplant.
    
    Holly