Conference misery::feline

    Lisa, you should be able to find a bunch in the old version conference. 
    (VAXWRK::FELINE).  Jo keyworded them for easy access.
    
    -Roberta
    

    How do I add entry vaxwrk::feline? Notes says I can't do that - feline
    already added ......
    
    I need this info fairly urgently :-(
    
    Lisa.

    try MUTTON::FELINE_V1
    
    

    Also, there is a keyword for cardio in this file.  I entered some
    information on Cardio in the Disease Information topic (#29) when we
    first set up this notesfile.
    
    Jo

    Did anyone see the episode of Rescue 911 last night?  It was about a
    little boy who was born with cardiomyopathy and wasn't expected to live
    past the age of one year.  They did not state what type of cardio he
    had, just that he was diagnosed with cardiomyopathy at 6 monthls old.  He
    lived, but his increasing growth put a strain on his heart and he was
    admitted to the hospital with pneumonia (predisposed by the cardio),
    anorexia, and congestive heart failure.  His mother pleaded to the
    media for a donor and one was found.  The boy underwent a succesful
    transplant and his life expectancy is now normal.
    
    Gave me hope that maybe one day, this can be done for cats too!
    
    According to Tufts, more and more research is being done on cardio in
    humans, and they are even beginning to isolate genes for it!
    
    -Roberta
    

Roberta,

	I saw this also, and thought of Josh and Becky, and all the other 
kitties mentioned in this file that have suffered from this affliction.  

I was talking to the veterinary cardiologist that my mother knows at Christmas
and she mentioned that they are starting to feel that this is definitely
genetic.  She also urged me to try to find J&B's other siblings and suggest to
their owners that they may wish to get them tested for HCM.  Since J&B were 
the children of an 'escapee' and the 'local man-about-the-alley', nothing is 
known of their heritage (their siblings were also adopted by random individuals).
Following HCM occurrence in recorded breeds could help the research. 

kathy

    I saw it too...and of course cried because it brought back
    memories of my Tamba and I realize how much I miss my baby!
    
    Thank god the show had a happy ending.
    
    Sandy

    The tests for HCM will only show you what is happening with the heart
    *on the day of the test*.  It will not tell you if HCM will develop
    sometime later on down the road.
    
    Just some food for thought.
    
    The cardiologist who treated my Ragdolls at Tufts told my vet recently
    that the gene for HCM in humans has been isolated.  However, I haven't read
    about it myself so don't know how much validity there is to it.
    

>>She also urged me to try to find J&B's other siblings and suggest to
>>their owners that they may wish to get them tested for HCM.
    
    As far as I know, there is no way to test a cat to see if it will ever
    develop cardio. The tests that are available will only tell you if the
    cat has the problem right now.  In most cases, the cat will have
    already been displaying symptoms at that point.  So, I think it would
    not be beneficial for the owners of the siblings to put out large sums
    of money on these tests if their cats are currently asymptomatic.  They
    should be told that other siblings were lost to HCM, but the testing
    won't be able to tell them if their cats are ever going to become ill
    with HCM.
    
    I have also lost a cat to Hypertrophic cardiomyopathy.  This cat was my
    stud cat.  He sired hundreds of kittens in his lifetime.  Not one of
    those kittens has been lost to Hypertrophic Cardiomyopathy.  You can
    bet that I have been doing my best to keep track of those offspring and
    their offspring in order to see if this pops up in any of them.  So far 
    so good.  Based on my own experiences, I am not yet ready to accept the 
    "Hypertrophic cardio is genetic" argument.
    
    Jo
    

I believe there may be some forms of this affliction which are genetic, but
I also believe that there are forms which will be found to be induced by
viral/bacterial infection.  I think that the genetic form will be
found to require a rare or unusual combination of genetic factors - which
would explain why we see "clusters" of this in kittens born in one litter,
but not in other litters from the same female or male.  At any rate, I
am glad the research continues...I know how painful it is to lose a beloved
pet.

>> >>She also urged me to try to find J&B's other siblings and suggest to
>> >>their owners that they may wish to get them tested for HCM.

>>    The tests for HCM will only show you what is happening with the heart
>>    *on the day of the test*.  It will not tell you if HCM will develop
>>    sometime later on down the road.


	I understand this completely.  Her opinion, and I guess I did not 
communicate this clearly in my original note, was that the testing would not
be a one-time thing, but should be done on a periodic basis.  She herself tests
her cats yearly, when they get their shots, but then she has the capability
of doing it herself.  

> was talking to the veterinary cardiologist that my mother knows at Christmas
>and she mentioned that they are starting to feel that this is definitely
                                 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>genetic. 

	There is no conclusive evidence yet.  Some forms of feline HCM are 
very similar to human HCM.  There's evidence that the human form is genetic.  
This is where tracing the occurrence in a known genetic line of felines can
help the feline research. 

	I myself am not ready to fly off the handle and insist that every 
potential relative be tested.  If a cat develops HCM, it might be worth seeing
if any of the littermates also developed it.  Since it's not something that's
evident when the cat is born, it's kind of tough suggesting to folks that they
may want to do this regular (and not necessarily inexpensive) test on their cat
*just because they *might** develop the disease.

	I'm just noting that in cases where the lineage of cats is known, it is 
a lot easier to trace something that may be hereditary than just by looking at
j-random heinz-57 cats.

	Jo, do you know if any of Kalliste's littermates have any indication of 
HCM?

	I certainly have no desire to start a rampage of folks returning their 
kitties to breeders just because they *may in the future* develop HCM.  I have 
no desire to undermine anyone's business like that.  My comments are made out
of curiosity.  I'm sorry if I've raised anyones hackles over the issues.  

    Kathy,
    
    You didn't raise hackles with me, and I didn't mean to sound
    self-righteous in my reply (the part you extracted, upon reading it
    again, does sound a bit know-it-all-ish.  I am sorry I came across that
    way.
    
    I think all of us who lost cats to this disease are going to differ in
    opinions and that's okay.  It is a VERY EMOTIONAL topic for me, and I
    could lose friends over it if discussed in too much detail.  Everyone
    has a right to their opinions and beliefs.
    
    My vet and I often discuss whether or not we should put Kelsey through
    testing, since two of his litter brothers were lost to it.  She can
    tell me upon examination that his heart sounds strong and fine, no
    gallup rythums, etc., but a non-invasive test such as ultrasound could
    tell us so much more.  For the betterment of Ragdolls, I should
    probably do it on a continual basis but don't.  Even non-invasive
    procedures are stressful on the cat, and I don't want to put him
    through that stress.  Will other cats die because I didn't do my share? 
    Maybe, but there are scores of Ragdoll breeders propegating Kelsey's
    line, and there is no way I can single-handedly take on the chore of
    stopping the error of their ways.  Plus, Kelsey's mom or dad might
    produce a fine, healthy litter of kittens when bred to other cats. 
    Perhaps it was their genetic combination that led to Shelby and Kirby's
    demise.
    
    My opinion is that the gene or genes for cardio in the genetic sense is
    not as cut and dry as dominant and recessive, and this is where the
    difficulty lies in determining exactly how this disease is
    transmitted.
    
    -Roberta (who really feels for anyone who has lost a beloved pet to
              cardiomyopathy, in any of the various forms.)
    

    After losing my Tamba to sudden cardiomyopathy (sp???) I often
    asked myself that if we had known, done the test and determined there
    was a problem with his heart...what then!!   Could diet or 
    medicine fix the problem, could he had lived longer (how much)
    could he had quality life??
    
    We choose not to have Tamba's littermate tested as well...and so 
    far Ross is healthy and happy.
    
    Sandy

    I don't think that anyone's hackles have been raised by your comments
    on HCM so no need to worry about that.  Usually, if hackles are raised
    we can tell by the tone of their notes! :')
    
    To answer your question about Kalliste's relatives...none of his
    littermates have been afflicted.  Kalliste was from the third breeding
    between his parents.  All three litters produced a large number of males
    too.  Males seem to be more likely to be stricken with HCM according to
    the research I have read.  
    
    Anyway, Kalliste's older brother, Just a Gigolo, is still breeding and 
    living with Richard Mayo.  Julie had just neutered Kalliste's
    littermate, Kavalier, when Kalliste was stricken.  If she hadn't, I 
    would have asked to have him for breeding.  Kalliste's father is a well 
    known stud in the breed, CH Tokimoon Iolanthe of Pleasantview, and has 
    sired hundreds and hundreds of kittens.  He is very close to achieving 
    his D.M. in CFA (that requires 15 grand offspring for a male cat) To date 
    he has not thrown any other cat that has succumbed to cardio other 
    than Kalliste.  
    
    Kalliste's mother, Wishnwell's Forget-Me-Not, is now spayed and living 
    in a pet home.  An older sister, Caprice, is living in a breeding home 
    in southern California.  All the offspring of those three breedings 
    between Mimi and Iolanthe are accounted for, but many were sold into 
    pet homes and not breeding homes.
    
    My two new stud boys are both descendants of Iolanthe.  Nepenthe is his
    son, and Reste is his maternal grandson.  I will be keeping close tabs 
    on their offspring too.  In a sense, I am doing my own research project 
    with my cats, since I have the pedigrees of all the kittens and can track 
    any occurance that may happen.
    
    Also, several of us (Birman breeders) have been trying to find a vet
    that would be willing to do a research project on the incidence of
    cardio in the breed but have been unable to find a willing vet.  If you
    know of one please pass along his/her name.
    
    Jo
    

    Jo,
    
    I have been re-reading this string this week (tomorrow will be the one
    year anniversary of Murdock's death and it has been a rough week for me
    remembering what was happening last year during this same week) and
    noticed the last paragraph of your previous entry asking for the name
    of a vet that would be willing to conduct a study of the incidence of
    cardio in Birmans.
    
    I do have a name for you:  Dr. (John?) Rush, of Tufts University in
    North Grafton.  Several months after Murdock's death he contacted me
    via my vet and asked if I knew of any breeders who were willing to work
    with them to conduct such a study.  I didn't at the time.  I don't know
    what it would entail (test breedings probably between sires and dams
    that are known producers of cardio), or what the specifics are, and
    since you are out in CA it is awfully far away.  However, if you know
    of any east coast breeders who might be interested, it might be worth
    it to pass this info along.  Dr. Rush is head of cardiology at Tufts.
    
    Just some food for thought.
    

    Well, since I asked about the vet, the cat that was a known producer of
    cardio was neutered.  He is now living happily in a pet home.  If we
    ever come up with another known producer, we will have to get in touch
    with the vet at Tufts.
    
    Jo

    Nibbey Nose, my two year old birman, is sick.  He had been
    acting listless for the past 3 weeks, and we thought it was just
    because we moved cross country and he was unused to his surroundings.  
    We brought him over to a vet this past saturday, and had done a complete
    blood test on him.  The vet said that Nibbey is running a light fever,
    had an a-rythmic heartbeat, and some intestinal blockage or some such.
    
    The blood test came up positive for FIP, with a titer of 1:800.  Now
    looking at the old notes on FIP, 1:800 doesn't seem a really high
    number.  On the other hand, the symptons Nibbey have: listlessness,
    loss of appetite & weight loss can indicate cardiomyopathy as well...
    
    Nibbey seems to be doing better today, after been on the antibiotics
    for the past 3 days.  All the vet is doing is giving him some steroid
    shots every 1 1/2 weeks... 
    
    I guess my question is whether I should have Nibbey examined for
    cardiomyopathy?  Or just see if the antibiotics and the steriod is
    going to help?  Is there an equivalent of Tufts or Cornell medical school
    in Southern California area?
    
    Also, what is prednisone and does it really help FIP patients?  Where
    can I get it?
    
    Thanks in advance,
    
    Stella & Nibbey Nose
    

    Prednisone is a prescription item you have to get from your vet.  I
    don't know about it for FIP;  my Sweetie is on it to suppress an
    allergy that has been damaging his lungs.  It makes him more sleepy,
    but the vet says the dosage he's on should otherwise be okay in terms
    of side effects.  He takes 1 and 1/2 tablets two days in a row and then
    skips a day.  He is a _big_ cat, so th enormal dosage may be less,
    since it's a function of body weight.
    

    p.s.  I don't know about S. Calif. vets, but you might call UCLA and see
    if they have a vet school.
    

    The vet gave Misha prednisone to stimulate his appetite. It didn't, it
    made him depressed.  The vet said that happens in a small percentage of
    cats.  When we were trying to determine what was wrong with Misha, (who
    had lost weight) they did an ultrasound, and proved that it wasn't
    cardio, which was a big relief to us.  So I would recommend an
    ultrasound.  The vet also did an endoscopy, which proved that he had
    imflamatory bowel disease.  BTW, Misha is also a Birman. 
    
    Good luck.  I have my fingers crossed for you.
    
    Steffi  

    A titer test is not the best way to diagnose FIP.  1:800 really doesn't
    mean anything other than the cat has been exposed to *a* corona virus
    in lifetime, and that may not even be the corona virus that causes FIP.
    If you want a better gauge of his FIP status, run a complete blood
    profile including total protein.  A cat with elevated white count and
    elevated total protein is probably fighting off FIP.
    
    For a while, vets were treating FIP cats with steroids in an effort to
    suppress the immune system since it was thought that FIP was caused by 
    an immune system that had gone haywire at the first sign of FIP virus. 
    It was later found that using steroids could actually hasten the demise
    of the FIP cats rather than help them.  If you are not sure what is
    going on with the cat's health, I would call the vet and tell him that
    you wish to discuss why the steroids are being given.  Steroids do
    depress the immune system.  There is always a risk in giving them.  You
    need to be able to know all the facts about why they were prescribed
    and then make an educated decision about whether you want your cat to
    have them or not.
    
    If you are worried about cardiomyopathy, then you should have an
    ultrasound done on the cat.  Or at least a chest x-ray.  Cardio will
    sometimes show up on an x-ray, but an ultrasound is better if you can
    afford it.  It costs about $130 out here in Northern California.
    
    Oh, and there is a vet school in California, it is UC Davis, located
    just outside of Sacramento.
    
    Good luck to you.
    
    Jo

    Well, I took Nibbey to another vet yesterday for complete heart
    examination.  Initially the vet thought it was mainly FIP that is doing
    the damage, for the numbers on the protein (or whatever) on the liver
    is not good.  But after he took 2 sets of chest xray, a EKG, and a
    ultrasound, he concluded that Nibbey does indeed have CM.  But very
    much to my surprise, it's DCM, not HCM!  Nibbey's heart is very weak in
    pumping sufficient blood to the system, and the vet rated it an 8 on a
    scale of 0 to 10 (0 being a normal heart).  He was really surprised
    that outwardly Nibbey is in such good condition, considering his heart
    condition.
    
    At any rate, we are now giving Nibbey heart medication and antibiotics.
    Hopefully the symptons for the FIP is just a offshot of the CM.  
    
    Does anyone know of a commercially available canned or dry cat food
    with low salt content?  The vet run out of the Science Diet for
    heart patient, and won't be getting another shipment until next week,
    so I am feeding Nibbey SD light and Whiskas Expert (didn't see any
    mention of salt there, but I could be wrong) for now.  
    
    Thanks for all the advice received so far...
    
    -Stella & Nibbey 

    When my vet occasionally runs out of a special type of food, his
    receptionist calls other neighboring vets' offices to see if they have
    it in stock, and then let's them know that a patient is on their way
    over to get it.  I think you probably can't just call a vet's office at
    random and ask since it's sort of prescription.  Although you might
    locate one with it in stock and then ask them to check with your vet or
    some such.
    
    hugs to Nibbey;  please keep us informed.
    

    Stella,
    
    I am so sorry to hear of Nibbey's cardio.  Since the heart is the
    primary muscle, it makes sense that other organs will begin to
    deteriorate (liver for instance) due to insufficient oxegyn and blood
    supply.  I don't think this is FIP; in many cases, the symptoms of
    cardio manifest in FIP symptoms, and this is the first thing a vet will
    test for.  This was the case with my Birman, but upon autopsy, there
    was no FIP.  He was beginning to develop liver damage due to the cardio
    and the fact that he was not eating.
    
    DCM is indicative of low taurine.  There have been studies done in the
    Birman breed, and what has happened with some cats is that even though
    they were fed a diet high in taurine, their bodies were unable to
    metabolize it properly, so the actual dosage they were getting was very
    low, and not sufficient enough to maintain a healthy heart.  With DCM,
    the heart walls become very weak and flabby and as you stated, cannot
    pump blood through the system.
    
    Is it possible for you to obtain the heart diet food from other vet,
    until your vet receives his supply?  I think it is imperative to start
    Nibbey on a proper diet as soon as possible.
    
    My thoughts and prayers go out to you and your family.  Please keep us
    posted.
    
    -Roberta
    

    Come to think of it, I believe Science Diet can be purchased from pet
    shops.
    

    Thank you for all the advice.  I just called the vet's office; they
    gave me a recipe from Science Diet on low-salt home cooked meal. 
    Doesn't look too complicated, so I will try that first and wait for the
    Science Diet h/d to arrive.  
    
    Roberta, who did the study about birmans not metabolizing taurine?  My
    vet mentioned it as one possibility...  Boy, I think you know more than
    some of the vets I met!
    
    I am just so thankful for this notesfile; Nibbey could have continued
    being treated for FIP instead of DCM!  I just wish I recognize the
    symptons for cardio sooner...
    
    -Stella & Nibbey

    Stella,
    
    As far as I know, the study was not done by any one person or
    specialist.  In the past few years, cardiomyopathy has claimed the
    lives of several Birmans, and a few breeders have come forward and
    shared their stories in the breed newsletter, Sacred Cat of Burma
    (SCBF).  Cardio kept showing up in particular bloodline, and the owners
    of the cats had their taurine levels tested, then recommended that
    other owners of cats from that line do the same.  A pattern began to
    appear in that several of the cats had inadequate taurine levels,
    although they were being fed a premium diet rich in taurine.
    
    Most vets do not see a lot of cardio cases, maybe about 1 or 2 per
    year.  It is not suprising that when symptoms manifest, they get blamed
    on other more common ailments first.  Also, a lot of vets have low
    opinions of breeders, because many of the FIP cases they see come from
    breeding situations.  So, when a purebred cat comes in with FIP
    symptoms, they are quick to begin testing for it, when 9 times out of
    10 the problem isn't FIP at all.
    
    Please don't beat yourself up about not noticing any cardio symptoms. 
    I have helped many people deal with their emotions when faced with
    this, and the first thing they say is "Why didn't I notice there was
    anything wrong?  If only I had, things might have been different." 
    Cats are very good at hiding their illnesses, and making us think that
    they feel great when they really don't.  Also, in the initial signs of
    heart failure, the cat recognizes the demands and limitations placed on
    the body and begins compensating for them immediately by slowing down
    their activity level.  They do this so gradually that we don't realize
    it is even happening.  We think they are coming down with a cold, or
    maybe it's the heat if the weather is hot, or perhaps something is
    stressing them out (hence, your move across country).  We don't really
    clue in on the severity of their illness until damage to the heart is
    severe.  Then, we kick ourselves with all of the I should have's. 
    Don't!!  Instead, concentrate on helping Nibbey, and enjoy all the
    precious time that you can with him.
    
    I am hoping that the heart medication and special diet will keep him
    stable and possibly even reverse some of the damage to the heart.  In
    the meantime, keep writing in here for moral support and good thoughts. 
    This conference has been a lifesaver for me many times over, and I have
    met some wonderful friends.
    
    Hang in there, Stella!!
    
    -Roberta
    

    Stella.....my heart and prayers are with you on this one. 
    Cardio is is very close to me because I just lost my beloved
    Tamba last October.   Tamba showed no signs of slowing down or
    not eating...but just one day we noticed he was breathing very
    heavily.   We rushed him to the Animal Hospital where he passed
    away within an hour.   I too kick myself (still do) in the butt
    for not seeing the symptoms earlier....but like Roberta stated
    they are good at hiding their sickness.  Tamba was not a Birman...
    just an ordinary loving kitty. 
    
    I gained so much knowledge and support from this notesfile.  Roberta
    and Jo are a wealth of knowledge on Cardio and everyone was so
    supportive.    
    
    Best wishes for your kitty...and hopefully you can treat the problem
    via medication and diet.   Good thoughts and prayers coming your way!
    And please keep us posted....
    
    Sandy
    
                                  

    Hi Stella,
    
         Here are more prayers and warm wishes your way.  Nibbey sounds
    like a wonderful, strong cat; sounds like she's a fighter!
    
         BTW I regularly get Science Diet Prescription W/D from either
    Tufts, Shrewsbury Animal Hospital, Northboro Animal Hospital or
    Westboro Animal Hospital.  My kitties are patients at Tufts and
    Shrewsbury; my rabbits are patients at Northboro.  The people at
    Westboro didn't know me when I walked off the street a couple of months
    ago with only 2 cans left in the pantry; when I told them I had a
    diabetic cat and needed W/D, they served me with no problems.  I would
    think that another vet would be able to get you even a few cans, just
    to tide you over.
    
         Best of luck to you and Nibbey!
    
    					- Andrea

    Thanks so much for the kind words and encouragement.  I will
    have Nibbey's taurine level checked when we visit the vet again next
    week.  Meanwhile I guess there's nothing I can do except to feed him
    his medication and make sure that he eats enough. 
    
    I'll keep you posted if anything changes...
    
    -Stella & Nibbey & Tetris (who's feeling neglected lately)

    I am sorry to hear that Nibbey has DCM.  I hope the you were able to
    catch it in time and that he is on the road to recovery.
    
    After several years of studying Cardio in cats, one thing that I have
    learned is that not all cases of DCM are diet related.  With any luck
    Nibbey's is the cause of taurine deficiency and can be reversed.  
    Most of the books that I have say that the cat should be on additional 
    taurine just in case, and possibly a diuretic.
    
    The situations that Roberta refered to in her note (the incidence of
    Cardio and the taurine deficiencies in those Birmans) were not all related
    to DCM like Nibbey's is.  I was very involved in those cases so if you
    would like more information please send me mail offline.
    
    Jo

    I've got an update on Nibbey's condition.  The vet thinks Nibbey's doing 
    better; seems like the medication is working to make Nibbey's heart
    pump better.  Unfortunately Nibbey still refuses to eat, so we've
    started to force feed him the clinicare liquid diet (he's such a sorry
    sight, with all the medication and food dripping down his chin!) 
    Hopefully he will start eating on his own again soon.  
    
    The vet is still checking to see if there's a lab that will run blood
    test on taurine levels.  Would anyone please post the name and phone
    number of the lab if you know of one?  At any rate, since we feed
    Nibbey Science Diet+Pro Plan+Iams, the vet thought it might be because
    Nibbey couldn't utilize the taurine...  So extra taurine in his diet
    won't help.
    
    We're still taking it one day at a time, and trying not to get our
    hopes up too high.  Will get another update when we see the vet in 7-10 
    days.  
    
    Stella & Nibbey & Tetris (who's feeling lousy because of the FIP vaccine)

    Poor Nibbey, give him a big hug for me.  If Nibbey has trouble
    utilizing taurine, might a suppliment help anyway by increasing the
    amount?  If he manages to partly utilize it, I mean.  As for the lab,
    if there's no vet center at UCLA or another educational institution
    nearby, how about calling a people lab, esp. one associated with a
    medical center?  Or could you FedEx a sample some place?  Pack it in
    dry ice, maybe?
    

    I am very saddened to report that Nibbey Nose died of heart and kidney 
    failure early Saturday morning.  I knew that he wasn't doing well so I
    placed him at the hospital early Friday to receive fluid therapy and 
    treatment.  Guess it's too little too late.  The heart medication
    digitoxin (sp?) gradually builds up to a toxic level and his failing 
    kidneys just can't handle it.  It's a no win situation.
    
    Early saturday morning the vet called me to say that Nibbey is doing
    very badly and to come right away.  I got there 15 minutes later, but
    he already have a cardiac arrest and in a coma.  I have to let him go.
    
    We are still trying to recover from the shock.  I guess knowing 2
    months in advance still didn't prepare us for the final outcome. 
    
    I will always miss him.
    
    -Stella 

    Stella,
    
    So sorry to hear about Nibbey.  I believe he's up in Kitty Heaven now 
    with the rest of the FELINE noter kitties who have passed on long before
    we were ready for them to go.
    
    Take care of yourself.
    
    Jan

    I'm very sorry about Nibbey, too.
    
    Karen
    

    Our deepest sympathies too.
    
    Kim (Morticia, Alpo, Adelaide, Misha, Moose, Beth, and Christina)

    Stella, I am truly sorry.  Nibbey is in a safe place now, and he knows
    how much you loved him.  Take comfort in that.  He had a life filled
    with quality, and that is what counts.
    
    Take care of yourself,
    
    -Roberta
    

    So sorry about Nibbey.  Try to take comfort in the fact that he is no
    longer in any pain.
    
    Take care,
    Michelle, Nicky & Lasher

    Stella, I am sorry.
    
    Jo

    May Nibbey be in your heart forever.
    
    ng (and Eddie Haskell, Whiteface, and Black-and-White Fred)

    Us, too.  Our thoughts and prayers are with you....
    
    Mary and the 7 fuzzfaces
    

    I'm so sorry about Nibbey.
    
    Steffi + 4

	Our sympathies too, Stella.  It's so hard to let them go, but you
	did everything you could for Nibbey.

	Sandy, Smudge, Tas, Jenny, C.C., Beau & Spike..

    Thank you everyone, for your kind words.  I do take comfort that at
    least now Nibbey is free from nasty medications, pills and force
    feeding sessions.  I only hope that there will be plenty of cat toys
    and playmates wherever he is now.
    
    -Stella & Tetris (who is walking around the house crying for his
    companion)

    
          so sorry for Nibbey....
    
          Denise and the gang of 10

    So so sorry about Nibbey....believe me...he is with many of
    our four-legged furry friends who will greet him with a smile
    a headbutt and a kiss!!!
    
    Give your other kitty extra loving!!
    
    Sandy
    

    I got a call from Jan Cordes last night, and she requested that I post
    this information for her.
    
    It seems that her cat Bailey threw a bloodclot last night shortly after
    Jan got home.  Jan was just about to go out and feed the neighborhood
    strays when Bailey freaked and took cover under an endtable.  Jan tried
    to coax her out to see what was wrong.  Poor Bailey wanted to come out,
    but couldn't - she had lost the use of her right leg and only had
    partial use of her left leg.  Jan finally got her in a carrier and took
    her to an emergency vet.  They are testing for a number of things, but
    the vet thinks it's likely that she has cardiomyopathy.  
    
    Jan was supposed to pick up Bailey this morning and take her to her
    regular vet.  (I haven't heard from her today for a progress report.) 
    Jan's still too upset to enter a note herself.  Bailey was Jan's first 
    cat so there's an extra-special bond between them.  Sorry I don't have
    more details; maybe Jo can fill us in more when she gets in this
    afternoon.
    
    I know Jan could use some moral support right now, and please join me
    in sending out kitty prayers for Bailey.
    
    Best,
    Michelle  

    Sending for Jan and Bailey...
    
    Nanci

        Me, too.  I hope this Bales has the same good results as Bales in
    416.38.
    

    Poor Bales and poor Jan.....hugs and prayers are coming her way.
    
    Please keep us posted....
    
    Sandy

    Sending good, healing thoughts for Bailey.
    

    From us, too.  Blue says "hang in, Bailey!".
    
    Mary + 8

    Here's some more info. from Jan.  Posted with her permission:
    
   |*| I picked Bailey up at 8:00am and she was not doing that well.  They
   |*| said she'd been resting quietly and didn't appear to be in pain but,
   |*| now she has lost the use of both legs and tail.

   |*| I took her and the vet report and x-rays over to The Cat Hospital.
   |*| I was distressed that I had to wait 1/2 hour to see the vet but
   |*| she was involved in a phone call and if I wanted to see the vet
   |*| Dr. Shanker recommended I had to wait.  And one point Bailey started
   |*| crying out and sort of howling, it nearly broke my heart.

   |*| Dr. Dalmane looked at the x-rays.  One set was taken shortly after 
   |*| Bailey was admitted to the emergency vet, the other was taken later.
   |*| The first set showed a slight enlargement of the heart but everything
   |*| else looked okay.  The second set was not good.  Her heart was 
   |*| obviously enlarged and there appeared to be fluid in her lungs.
   |*| The spinal x-ray was not that good so they're going to take new
   |*| ones.
    
   |*| Dr. D. feels there may be more going on than just the cardio.  She
   |*| wants to be sure.  If Bailey has a ruptured or herniated disk she
   |*| will required surgery within the next 36 hours.  Surgery will be
   |*| risky due to the enlarged heart (the vet did mention that her 
   |*| heart had a strong beat even though it was enlarged).  They may 
   |*| have to refer me to someone if she needs surgery.

   |*| If I don't hear from the vet before lunch, I'm to call them.  I 
   |*| have a pager on so they can page me if anything happens.  Dr. Shanker
   |*| (my regular vet) was supposed to be off today but will be in to do
   |*| some surgeries.  He promised to take a look at her (I talked to him
   |*| last night).

   
   |*| Jan
    

    
    	Paws crossed for Bailey......
    
    

    I hope the slipped disk is bogus.  It doesn't seem likely that two
    separate problems (heart, disk) would suddenly show up at once....
    

    Perhaps an ultrasound would help diagnose her condition more
    accurately.  Please know that you are in our thoughts and prayers.
    
    Hugs to Jan and Bailey,
    
    -Roberta and her three furry terrorists
    

    Poor Bailey.  I hope things work out ok.
    
    ng

    Thanks for all the good wishes and prayers.
    
    Bailey has not improved as yet.  I just got off the phone with 
    Dr. Dalmane and they're waiting to hear from the ultrasound person.
    They'd like to get that done today.  It's outrageously expensive
    but I think they need to do it.  They're also going to do a blood
    panel.
    
    I've talked to Jo.  She's calling around trying to find a better
    place to take Bailey.  We're looking for someone with more expertise
    in cardiology.  The Cat Hospital is good but I'd like to take her to
    an expert.
    
    Dr. Dalmane says if she doesn't improve in the next 24 hours it may be 
    best to put her to sleep since after that time she may have permanent 
    damage she'll never recover from.  I really don't want to think about 
    that now but I know it is a possibility.  I'm hoping there is someone 
    out there that can pull her through.
    
    Jo has been my lifeline.  I knew instantly that something was seriously
    wrong as Bailey flipped out, hissing and growling and tried to run to
    hide.  Her back end wasn't working right and cariomiopathy kept running
    through my head as I tried to get close to her.  But, I just wasn't
    sure of my diagnosis and called Jo frantically.  She calmed me by 
    asking questions and telling me what to do next.  I was shaking as I
    did the things she told me to do.  I was having a hard time remembering
    the things the emergency vet told me and remembering to ask questions
    and Jo was right there telling me what I should be looking for and
    asking.  I don't know what I'd do without her.
    
    I want to thank Michelle Cantoni for being a major source of moral
    support and Dian Wilde (will thank her in person tonight) for her
    generous offer of financial assistance.  If it hadn't been for this
    notesfile, I doubt I would have realized so quickly what had happened.
    Being aware of Kalliste's problem, Roberta's cats (I apologize, their 
    names escape me at the moment) and most recently the story of Marlene's 
    Bailey certainly helped me recognize the signs.  Bailey was being
    checked by the emergency vet within 1/2 hour of showing symptoms.  I've
    been hoping that the fact I got her in so quickly will help her recover
    but I'm not so sure now that it will.
    
    Again, thanks for all the good wishes.  I'll post more when I have more
    information (or I'll impose upon Michelle again if I can't do it for 
    some reason).
    
    Jan

    I'm glad I can be of some help (if I could :^(, I would help out
    financially as well).  It's the least I can do for a friend.
    
    Best,
    Michelle

    Just got a note from Jan who is headed out to the Cat Hospital right
    now to check on a sonogram for Bailey.  If they can't get the sonogram
    done, they (Jan and Jo) will move Bailey to the care of an internist
    with whom Jo spoke earlier today.
    
    From the last x-ray, it is definitely cardio, not a spinal problem.

    Re: internist
    
    Is this person a heart specialist?
    

    I'm sad to report that Bailey wasn't improving by Sunday afternoon,
    and she seemed to have given up the struggle for recovery.  The cardio
    was compounded by some sort of spinal injury that wasn't responding to
    any treatment.  Sunday evening, Jan had to make the difficult decision 
    to release Bailey from her suffering.  Jan will enter a Tribute to
    Bailey note as soon as she is able.
    
    Michelle

    Thanks, Michelle for keeping us informed.
    
    Jan, I am so sorry to hear that you had to let Bailey go.  From all
    that I read ... she was so special.  Please accept my heartfelt
    condolences in your loss.  No words are every right or comforting at
    this sad time but please know I am thinking of you.
    
    Marilyn & Otis
    

    I'm so sorry.  Bailey was fortunate to have Jan's loving care.
    
    Karen
    

    So sorry, Jan.  It's always so hard to make that decision but one we
    always make out of love and compassion.  Hugs to you and prayers for
    Bailey.
    
    Pat & Clan
    

    Oh Jan.....I'm so sorry to hear about Bailey.   This is so tough....
    it brings back so many sad memories of losing my Tamba to Cardio
    last October.  
    
    You loved Bailey more then anyone could.....and you let him go in
    peace.  Again...I want to share this little poem that helped me
    through my grieving...I read it every hour.
    
              ...Grieve not,
                 nor speak of me with tears,
              but laugh and talk of me
                 as if I were beside you...
              I loved you so --
                 Twas heaven here with you.
    
      My sincere sympathy for you and the rest of the four legged family.
    
    Sandy

    I'm so sorry to hear about Bailey, Jan.
    
    Nanci

    We send our condolensces too.  It is a difficult decision, but you made
    the right choice.
    
    Hugs.
    
    -Roberta, Kelsey, Herbie, and Taja

         My condolences too.  It's always hard, I know ...
    
    					- Andrea

    
       so sorry to hear about Bailey,  but you did everything right.
    Bailey couldn't possibly have had a better team pulling for him all the
    way.
    
       denise and gang of 10

    Sniff.....and here at Cardio-East, we're so sorry too.  Bailey had the
    best Mom in the whole world.
    
    So, so sorry...
    
    Mary +7 +Blue

    Bailey had a complicated case.  She had what the specialist referred to
    as a "fibrocardiologous emboli", which was a clot that was hitting the
    spinal column, shutting down the nerves to the lower half of her body. 
    
    This is one that I haven't run across before, and I have done my best
    to research it but it is not covered in the Cornell Book of Cats.
    
    Jan did everything that she possibly could for Bailey, and so did the
    internist, and the emergency hospital.  Fortunately Bailey was not in
    any pain from the emboli since the nerves were shut off.  Usually, a
    clot can be very painful for a cat so I am glad that Bailey didn't
    suffer.
    
    Jo

    
    We're very sorry to hear about the loss of Bailey.
    
    Sandy +6+1
    

    Jan - 
    
    I just wanted to add my "official" condolences...
    
    I think you held up very well through all of it.  I'm proud of you.
    Like I said before, Bailey had a wonderful time with you, and she
    loved you as much as you loved her.
    
    She couldn't have asked for a better mom or better brothers or
    sisters.
    
    My gang sends their love (special chirps from Geera) and I send
    a another hug.  We feel for your loss.
    
    -- Scot, Ming, Bagheera, Marius and The Brat (with qittens)
    
    

    Jan,
    
    I'm so sorry. I remember how difficult it was to have to make that same
    decison about Argus. And when things come on that suddenly, it is so
    difficult to resolve in your mind.
    
    Condolences to you and your feline family,
    Deb and THE FIRM

    I just want to thank everyone for all the love and support they've
    shown.  I'll say it again...FELINE people are THE BEST people!
    I don't know what I would have done without my FELINER support system.
    
    I'm glad Jo put the name of Bailey's problem in the file.  I was
    wondering how I was going to spell it.  It was an unusual complication
    to her cardio problem.
    
    Well, I'm having good hours and bad hours and this isn't one of my
    better ones so I'm going to leave it at this.  When I'm feeling a 
    little better I plan to post a tribute to Bailey.  She was a very 
    special cat.
    
    Jan

    ...hugs!
    
    Marilyn & Otis
    

    There are a couple of things I wanted to mention.  If anyone in
    the San Jose area finds themself dealing with a similar situation,
    I highly recommend South Bay Veterinary Specialists on Jackson and
    McKee.  I dealt with Dr. Hawks and she was very caring.  She even
    called the emergency vet on a regular basis to check on Bailey's
    progress after we moved her there for the weekend.  The other 
    doctor in that office is Dr. Sue Daugherty.  She comes highly
    recommended from both Jo's vet office and Karen Kolling's vet.
    
    The care Bailey received from the Emergency Animal Clinic of
    South San Jose (by Oakridge Mall) was superb.  They all treated
    her as if she were their cat.  One of the techs (Mary) even 
    carried her around with her and kept trying to coax her to eat.
    The vets were wonderful.  I appreciated Dr. Szucs direct manner
    very much.  I was allowed to spend as much time with her as I
    wanted to.  The only requirement was to call first to be sure
    they weren't totally swamped.  I spent from 11:30pm Saturday
    night till 3:00am Sunday morning hanging out in the treatment
    room in front of her little cubby hole.  I was there when they
    pilled her and gave her sub-q fluids.  They made her very 
    comfortable on piles of soft blankets.  I was allowed to bring
    anything I thought she might eat.  I even brought both her 
    favorite beds.  The little one became her travel bed and the
    bigger one was her lounging bed.  I can't say enough about how
    well they treated her and I give my four star recommendation to
    anyone who may need an emergency vet.  In fact, if Dr. Szucs
    had a private practice, I'd being going to her regularly.
    
    Jan

    Condolences, Jan.  
    
    ng

    Jan, I just want to add my condolences to you.  If you feel the need
    to talk, just give me a call.
    
    Hugs,
    
    Steffi + 4

    Jan, 
    
    I'm so sorry.  You lived her, and she knew it and loved you too.  You
    did your best.   
    
    Hugs, 
      Linda

    
    I took the Bales in for a checkup last night and things are looking
    good.  The x-rays are being sent to the radiologist for additional
    consultation.  We did do an EKG because of an arrythmia that was
    detected while Rhonda was examining him, but found nothing from
    the test that would indicate that he is in any danger.  We are
    continuing with the Cardizem, Lasix (the fluid is gone, but there
    is still a slight elongation of the heart) and baby aspirin and
    will check him again in 2 weeks.  Depending upon the radiologist's
    feedback we may do another ultrasound in mid-November.  His appetite
    is great, he takes the meds without a peep and is back to beating
    up on Calzone with vigor.  It has been about 5 weeks, but I take it
    a day at a time...
    

    Alright Bales!  Keep up the good work.
    
    I'll keep my fingers crossed that he continues to do so well.
    
    Hugs to you, Marlene.
    
    Steffi
    

    Jan,  I am sorry about Bailey.  Having gone that route almost 3 months
    ago with Nibbey, I can finally say that I understand the pain.  Nibbey
    was the first cat I have ever lost, and to cardio also.  Having other
    kitties as sources of comfort helps though...
    
    Please take care.
    
    /Stella + CRT (Cassie, Rusty & Tetris)

    
    Marlene, it's good to hear that the Bales is continuing recovery.
    You are very lucky to have him.  I hope he continues to improve and
    stays well for a very, very, very long time.
    
    I want to thank all of you again for the support I've received from
    this file.  It helps to know that there are people out there who
    care.
    
    Jan

    Hi Marlene,
    
    Shall we compare notes?  How much Cardizem is Bales taking?  Blue
    is still getting 1/4 tab three times a day.  He was getting 1/2 tab
    of the Lasix twice a day, but is now getting it once a day.  Blue isn't
    getting any asprin at all.  Blue will be going back to the cardiologist
    in 3 more weeks...
    
    Mary
    

    Marlene, I am so happy to hear of Bailey's progress!  He is really some
    kinda cat!!
    
    Keep up the good work!
    
    -Roe
    

    
    re: .89  Mary, the Bales is taking 1/4 tab Cardizem once every 12 hours,
             1/2 tab Lasix every other day and a 81mg baby aspirin every 
             3 days.  I have been told by my vet(s) that the key to his
             longevity is the aspirin.  We need to keep his blood thinned
             to prevent him from clotting.  If he throws another clot the
             chances of him making it through are slim to none...
    
    

    
    It has been 4 months today that the Bales threw his clot and was
    diagnosed with hypertrophic cardiomyopathy.  His latest ultrasound
    shows a reduction in the thickening of the left ventricular wall
    which is fabulous news!  There is still some enlargement of the right
    atrium, but because he tolerates the meds so well we can play around
    with the dosage and find the right level which will bring down the 
    size of the atrium.  He is up about 2 ozs. at each visit and overall
    he is just fantastic.  The vets, radiologists, other breeders, and yes,
    mum, cannot believe that a) he survived and b) he is thriving as he is.
    Bales, I love you.  You are my miracle baby!
    
    
    

    Marlene, that is wonderful news!!!  You are a great nurse, he couldn't
    have done it without you.
    
    Steffi + 4

    Fantastic news, Marlene!!  I think the Bales was blessed with a lot
    more than 9 lives!
    
    Thanks for sharing this with all of us Feliners.
    
    -Roe
    

    Hurray for Bales!
    

    Great news for the Bales!  He's got a great nurse/mom.
    
    Jan

    So happy for both Bales and YOU!!  What tough cookie you both 
    are!!!
    
    Sandy

	Yay! Always great to hear happy news :^}

    Marlene,
    
    It's fun and exciting for all of us to share our 'wins' in this Notes
    file ...and four extra months to share ..and every reason to hope for
    many more ...are about as big as a 'win' can get.
    
    Congratulations to you and the Bales on the beating the odds so
    successfully ..and our healing and loving thoughts for continued
    improvement....
    
    Linda   :^)

    My friend has an 11 months old Himalayan who is critically ill.
    
    She called me last night to say that the cat was lethargic and
    breathing rapidly.  The cat tried to use the litter box and acted
    as if he was trying to vomit but couldn't.  He made a loud noise
    that sounded like a high pitched cough.
    
    She took him to the vet.  AFter an x-ray, the vet said that the
    cat has fluid around his heart and that the prognosis was not good.
    An ultrasound is scheduled for tomorrow morning to determine further
    damage, if any.
    
    My friend is distraught about this.  Especially since the cat had had
    some minor surgery several weeks ago and had a checkup prior to the
    surgery which required anesthesia.  
    
    The vet is guessing that this is a heart problem that the cat has
    had since birth.  But, if that's the case, why wasn't the problem
    discovered during the physical before surgery?
    
    His gums and paw pads were blue when he arrived at the vet's so
    it's not looking good.  The vet has got him on lasix to reduce the
    fluid and he's resting easier now.
    
    Does anyone have any light they can shed on this that I can share with
    my friend?
    
    Thanks so much.
    
    Nancy
    and 

    I don't know why it wouldn't have been detected if the cat has had the
    problem since birth, but I do know that my mom's vet (she just lost
    her cat, Duffy, to a heart problem) told her that heart trouble in a
    cat is one of the hardest things to detect. He said their hearts can
    seem fine one week and they can be in crisis the next. It has
    something to do with the fact that their hearts are so small, that
    things that can be detected on animals with larger hearts simply don't
    register. I don't know if that's applicable in your friend's case or not
    - the kitty is awfully young - I'll be praying for him.
    
    Rebecca

    Nancy,
    
    You've come to the right place.  I lost three purebred cats to heart
    disease in a time span of 3 years.  It was awful!  All three cases went
    undetected until it's worst state.  99.9% of the time it is not
    apparent until the immune system is stressed or suppressed in some way;
    in this case, the surgery your friend's cat had.
    
    What usually happens is that the cat seems perfectly fine as a kitten
    but as they grow, the heart cannot compensate, becomes weaker, and
    congestive heart failure sets in.  The fluid around the heart is
    indicative of that, and the lasix might help, but then again, it might
    not.  Because this cat is so young, it is my belief that the problem is
    either genetic or congenital in nature, and your friend should notify
    the breeder and receive some compensation.
    
    There are different types of heart disease.  Cardiomyapthy (failure of
    the heart muscle) can be either hypertrophic (enlargement of the muscle
    and chambers), dialative (thinning of the walls), or restrictive (rare
    in cats so young).  Aorta stenosis, a narrowing of the valve, can cause
    symptoms similar to hypertrophic cardio (my Ragdolls had this).  Some
    cats have an undetected hole in the heart which eventually leads to
    congestive heart failure.  The first thing your friend should do is
    have a cardiologist determine which type of heart disease her cat has,
    because treatment for the wrong type could be lethal.  Sometimes it is
    difficult to determine what type of heart disease is present, and the
    only thing a vet can do is to keep the cat on lasix to minimize fluid
    buildup so it can be comfortable.
    
    I am very sorry to hear your friend is going through this.  The first
    thing we tend to do is place blame on ourselves and our vets for not
    noticing any symptoms, but believe me they come on so suddenly and you
    are totally unprepared for the heartbreak (no pun intended here) that
    follows.  Cats are very good at compensating for their limitations, and
    they do it so well we are always the last to know that something is
    wrong until the disease has progressed to it's worst state.
    
    Mary Tamir's Himalayan, Blue, did not show signs of having hypertrophic
    cardio until he was hit by a car and in obvious trauma.  And, like with
    any illness, some cases are worse than others and can be maintained for
    longer periods of time.
    
    Please send my best to your friend, and keep us updated here.
    
    -Roberta
    

Ya, there's alot of us cardio experts around here!  In Blue's case, his
cardio was not detected until after the strain of his being run over.
He was saved by a team of cardiologists at Tufts Veterinary Hospital.
The experts there tell me that the vast majority of cats who have
cardiomyopothy are diagnosed at the very end stage of the disease.  They
tell me the only way to diagnose it early is with a series of ultrasounds
and echocardiograms done over a period of months to detect changes.  Having
paid for this on a number of occasions, it ain't cheap (right, Roberta??).

I can tell you that Tufts is doing lots of research on kitty heart disease
and Blue is one of their test cases.  But in the mean time, I can only
offer sympathies to your friend and try to prepare myself for the day when
Blue's time comes.

Mary

    Yes, Mary, I communicated the expense to Nancy off line.  I consider
    Blue to be a miracle kitty, and am sure his case was detected early due
    to the accident.
    
    I am glad to hear that Tufts is researching this.  They certainly have
    seen enough cases with all us Feliners!
    
    -Roberta
    

    
    I lost my brown tabby Monkey (Wabbit's sister) to hypertrophic cardio-
    myopathy when she was 9 years old.  Until the night before she died (in
    my hands, while being examined at the vet), she had shown no symptoms at
    all.  She would walk a few steps and stop, when I picked her up and petted
    her she would purr but then she would miao pitifully as if in considerable
    pain.  I made an emergency appointment for the next morning.  Her gums
    and tongue were blue by then, and she arrested during the stress of the
    exam.  Attempts to resuscitate her failed.  It was only after an autopsy
    (suggested by the vet due to the suddenness of her illness) that it
    became clear what she suffered from, and the evidence suggested it was
    congenital.
    
    len (who misses Big and Little Brown very much, even after all these
    years).