Conference misery::feline

    Edd-
    
    I have had good luck w/ Northboro Vet. Hospital, but I'm sure there's
    others who haven't.  I know of 2 cats who were declawed there and they
    recovered wonderfully.  I don't know which method was used, but neither
    one had problems associated with the surgery.
    
    BTW, My cat spends her day in the basement (large, clean safe) or
    outside.  She's not allowed in the rest of the house when no ones
    around to supervise, hence she's a well behaved cat.....despite the
    occasional slip here and there...

    There has been an ad in Cat Fancy magazine (and of course I don't have
    a copy with me at the office) for cover-things that you slip onto the
    cat's claws.  The cat keeps its claws, and you keep your furniture.  
    
    I only vaguely remember the ad...don't remember the cost, how long they
    last, etc.  But I do remember that they're supposedly not harmful if
    swallowed.
    
    I can post more information when I bring it in.
    
    Jo-Ann

    I have used the Shrewsbury Animal Hospital and have had very good luck.
    I believe they do declawing. I would recommend Dr O'Neil or Dr
    Chapman. Both are very good. There are two other vets there, but I
    prefer Dr O'Neil and Chapman. phone = 845-7921

    I am one of those who does not believe in declawing except in
    rare circumstances.  I'd say yours constitutes one of those and
    you are pursueing it in what I consider to be an intelligent manner.
    There is the rare kitty who can't be trained and I think if you
    absolutely must declaw then be sure that the vet you use knows
    what he/she is doing.  
    
    Good luck and keep us posted.
      Nancy DC
    

    On the basis of the recommendations I received, both on and off line,
    I decided to go with the Shrewsbury Animal Hospital. Aja's pre-
    surgical check up is tomorrow night.
    
    I feel kinda bad having to do this. Last night I dozed off on the
    couch for a bit and during that short time aja attacked the new 
    leather chair. House design prevents me from barring her entry to
    the room. The sprays worked, but were expensive and didn't last long.
    She ignores her scratching post, even after I recovered it with the
    remains of an old leather jacket.
    
    She is currently spending all her time in a closed room, certainly 
    no life for a cat. I saw the following alternatives...
    
            1. Declaw
            2. Shredded furniture
            3. Cat kept in cellar
            4. Get rid of cat
    
    Declawing was the best I could do. Training just isn't possible given
    the amount of time I could devote to it.
    
    Thanks for all the recommendations... I'll keep you posted.
    
    Edd

    Although EDD seems to have made a decision already, I have the ad from
    the November Cat Fancy magazine, and will paraphrase it (for what it's
    worth)...its a fullpage ad.
    
    The product is called Soft Paws, Nail Caps for Cats.
    
    "It was developed by a Louisiana veterinarian to solve the problem of
    scratching for both owner and pet.  Soft Paws are soft, vinyl nail
    caps that are easily applied to a cat's newly trimmed nails.  These
    comfortable nail caps cushion the effects of cat scratching, yet allow
    your cat to stretch and retract its claws naturally."
    
    "Soft Paws, if eaten accidently, will not harm your cat or family...The
    vinyl nail caps and the adhesie are non-toxic when set and dried...the
    materials are inert and are not absorbed if swallowed...the vinyl caps
    are cat-tested as comfortable and in a very short time, will feel as
    natural as its own nails..."
    
    "...Usually, a Soft Paws application lasts about four to six weeks
    ...the time for the next Soft Paws application will vary depending 
    on your cat's nail growth and how active your cat is...comes in four 
    sizes:  kitten, small, medium, and large..."
    
    "...available only through your veterinarian.  However, because Soft
    Paws are so new, your veterinarian may not have heard of them yet. 
    Your can arrange to have a sample of Soft Paws sent to your
    veterinarian in your name by mailing the coupon to SmartPractice.  Your
    veterinarian will be able to apply Soft Paws for a nomimal professional
    fee.  We will provide Soft Paws for your cat at no charge to your
    veterinarian..."
    
    If any feliners are interested, I can VAXmail you the coupon
    information ... the article states that the offer expires December 31,
    1991.
    
    Jo-Ann
    

    I wonder if a cat could get used to wearing something like shoes?
    
    Edd

    Ed, have you tried both carpet and sisal scratching posts?  Also, my
    Holly likes best to scratch cardboard;  I regularly being home Xerox
    copy paper boxes and she scratches the tops of them.
    

    Yes, and she ignored them. I've gone so far as to fashion a scratching
    post out of the very material she was destroying. No good.
    
    The claws most definitely have to be disabled.
    
    Edd

    Hm.  One thing I had to do with all my cats was rub some catnip in the
    tops of the posts and then lure the cats over to it.  They put their
    paws on the post as they stretched themselves up to smell it, and bingo
    got the idea.  (okay, okay, I did scratch the post myself with my
    fingernails to clue them in.)  might be worth a last ditch attempt.
    

    
    Edd,
    
    I just asked for the soft paw info, but I must agree (commiserate)
    with you in your dilemma.  My four 8 month old kittens are destroying
    my new furniture.  To them, it is just one giant jungle-gym and the
    more I try to swathe it in fabric or cover it in plastic, or spray
    it with lime juice or spray THEM with water, it seems the more I
    do to disuade them, the more they enjoy tormenting me with their
    games.  And yes, I have a HUGE Arubacat tree, two sisal posts, one
    scratch box, and even have laid down in their "catroom" a 6 foot by
    6 foot sisal rug!  They use all the trees, all the posts, they love
    the box and enjoy tearing up the rug.  But they still love the
    furniture too!  And nothing stops them.  My house looks like a
    strategically laid out battlefield with my couch surrounded by posts
    and boxes as deterrents to clawing the couch corners.  
    
    They are just TOO naughty.  It's even gotten to the point where I
    will be sitting on the couch watching tv at nite and I'll hear this
    full charge from behind me as four kittens play tag across the floor
    up to the end table, across the couch back, over my shoulders/lap/
    head and then down to the floor and into the kitchen.  I feel
    completely helpless.  I have NO control.  I admit my defeat.
    
    But just maybe with these new "shoes"........  (sigh)
    
    Nancy

    As an aside...
    
    What is the fabric type of your furniture?  I have found that a smooth
    fabric like cotton or chintz doesn't interest the cats at all but my
    husband's nubby fabriced chairs and couch in the guest room are great
    for shredding where the cats are concerned.  We plan to recover it as
    soon as finances permit.  (Our living room houses the cotton covered
    furniture and it is still in like-new condition.)
    
    Declawing is a very personal issue and only the owner knows what is
    best for the cat.  I no longer consider it cruel and inhumane as long
    as it is done by a conscientious vet.  Many cats have been butchered in
    the hands of inexperienced vets during the declaw process.
    
    Just my .02.
    
    -Roberta
    

    The new furniture is leather.
    
    BTW - Thanks to all for the support. I felt like I had no choice but
    to submit Aja to the surgery...
    
    Edd

    Out of our three cats two of them have been declawed. Neither one
    suffered any harmful effects or bleeding, and did not display ANY
    discomfort.
    
    Our vet did an excellent job but unfortunately has moved back to 
    the state of Washington. When he declawed the cats (one was 7 years
    old and the other 2 or 3, not done at the same time) he used a clear
    type of substance where the nail had been removed (sort of like crazy
    glue) and this prevented any dirt or foreign matter from entering
    the nail bed. It eventually disolved.
    
    We like you came to the end of our patience. Nothing seemed to work.
    Either the cats had to go or their claws.
    
    My 2 cents worth.
    
    Barbara

    Leather - Ohmygod!!
    
    We are in the process of looking for a new couch (this will be #3) and
    were considering leather as an alternative thinking that they couldn't
    get their hooks into it.  
    
    Back to sq 1
    
    Giudi

    No, don't get leather.  I have one leather chair and even though they
    don't scratch it, it has a whole collection of little scars from
    their jumping up and down.
    

    I can attest to the fact that cats don't seem interested in scratching
    chintz.  Our sofa, loveseat, and bedroom curtains are chintz and they
    haven't been shredded.  The sofa is now old enough to recover, but you
    can bet we will stick with chintz or smooth cotton fabric.
    
    Jo

    I would like a copy of the Soft Claws coupon.
    
    Thank you.
    Karen

    Roberta,
    
    That must be the problem with my furniture that I told Edd about.
    It is a very rich nubby patterned fabric and just perfect for little
    kitten claws.  Great.
    
    Nancy

    Nancy,
    
    Time to sell it and buy new!!  :^)  It's all part of cat-proofing a
    house  :^)
    

    Unfortunately, it IS new.  Only a month old.  It was my one big gift
    to myself when I moved to the new apartment.  I had to have this couch,
    it was so beautiful.  BIG BIG MISTAKE!  But at least it's not leather.
    THAT would break my heart!  :-)
    
    Nancy

    My two cents....Tai was declawed at about 6-8 months of age...sometimes
    he reacts like his feet hurt..especially when the weather is cold (and
    floors are cold).. Now, Figaro was declawed at the same age but the vet
    here in Atlanta did a beautiful job... Even the day after surgery, he
    did not limp or seem to have any discomfort..his big problem was he
    did't like the shredded paper in the litter box he had to put up with
    for a few days... His latest love is a fabric doll I have on my
    landing.. I have a collection of those toys I made my girls as they
    were growing up on and around a child's rocker.. Well, Figaro has
    fallen in love.. he carries it around and lately has taken to
    undressing it. It is so funny!  The doll will not be in its usual place
    and I start looking.  I find a stocking up three stairs, at the top are
    the pantaloons (it's an old fashioned doll), then the hat may be on my
    bed and under the bed is the doll.  I am tempted to put it out of his
    reach (I'm not so sure he couldn't find it) but he has not done any
    harm to it thusfar.  And he certainly enjoys it.  

    I also brought in a coupon for the Soft Paws, if anyone wants it.
    

    Aja's pre-surgical checkup went fine. Other than some plaque on her
    teeth she was proclaimed to be in perfect health.
    
    The de-clawing is scheduled for January 2nd.
    
    Edd

    
    
    I had the same problem with my cat Monroe about 6 years
    ago. He would shred the couch and chairs to bits. I tried
    everything to stop him. Then I started clipping his nails
    at least every other week. From then on he never touched the furniture.
    
    Just curious have you tried clipping your cats nails?
    
    Liz
    

    The problem I've found with attempting to clip her nails is 
    "circular". If the nails need to be clipped, she uses them!!!
    On me!!!
    
    She can be one VICIOUS cat when she's of a mind to...
    
    Edd

    Yikes!  I can't imagine what our house would look like if our four
    kittens didn't get their claws clipped every other week.  The whole
    place would probably be shredded.  It sems that with trimmed claws,
    even when they do scratch where they're not supposed to, the damage (if
    any) is hardly noticeable.
    
    Jo-Ann  

Gee, Edd, it's good to see you and Aja back in the notesfile!  And I know what
you're going through.  Of my seven, only one (Mikey) refuses to use one of the
seven scratching posts/boxes/trees in the house.  He's ripping the hell out
of my brand new leather furniture and has started ripping up the wood trim
around the doorways.  I've tried everything, but he's an ex-feral, won't let
me hold him long enough to trim his nails, and I'm at wit's end, too.  Keep
us posed on how Aja does after her surgery....

Mary

    Thanks, Mary...
    
    As an aside, I bought a vinyl and leather repair kit in an automotive
    supply store and spent a few hours repairing the damage. The repair is 
    all but invisible. The kit comes with 7 or 8 tubs of goop in assorted
    colors that you mix to match. My furniture is black so matching wasn't
    an issue. Using a razor (my new Gillette Sensor) I shaved all the
    little hairs off of the claw marks, and then used the black goop as a
    filler. The kit comes with some papers that allow you to imprint a
    leather "grain" into the goop.
    
    Aja is still not allowed to roam the house, spending all her time in
    assorted closed rooms. She is definitely not a happy camper...
    
    Edd

    .9
    
    Thanks for thst info, it may rescue my chair.
    

    Well folks, it's happening as I type.
    
    Aja was NOT a happy camper during the ride from home to the vet's this
    morning, but appeared absolutely despondant when placed in the cage.
    I wasn't altogether overjoyed either.
    
    Edd

Hang in there, Edd, she won't hate you.  She's gonna be just fine.  Don't
feel guilty; after all, when she starts paying the bills, she can start
making the rules.  It's the same with Mikey...when he starts repairing
the furniture and woodwork, we'll talk....

Mary

    Doc says the surgery went fine, although I'm sure aja thinks
    differently. She can come home Saturday...
    
    :^)
    
    Edd

    I have two five month old kittens who were destroying my house.  Like
    many of the other kittens described herein, they would not be trained. 
    We decided that declawing was the only answer -- however, one of them
    has a heart murmur, and the vet did not want to put her under more that
    necessary or subject her to undue stress.  My teenager somewhere heard
    about Soft Paws, so we decided to try them.
    
    My vet ordered the kit, and after a $23 visit, Beatrice had little caps
    on the end of her claws.  Within 5 days, two of the caps were off.  It
    has now been about 2 weeks, and 4 of them are missing.  I think she
    pops them off on the wicker clothes hamper on purpose (yes, she's
    figured it out).  
    
    BTW, the kitten who was declawed has had no problems at all.  We use
    Dr. Amy White at the Wayland Animal Clinic -- she and all the staff
    there are really teriffic.
    

    Aja came home from the vet's Saturday morning, and everything looks to
    be OK, aside from a bit of not unexpected weight loss.
    
    No bandages. She apparently bled a little bit in the car (which
    resulted in the car smelling like a barn) but we're not talking
    hemmoraging here folks, just a few little spots.
    
    Her front feet are obviously sore, but she walks OK when she has to.
    
    She's on antibiotics for a week. I thought it would be hell getting a
    pill down her throat, but rolling it up in a little ball of cat food
    makes it go down real easy.
    
    Side benefit: She seems so much friendlier!!
    
    Edd

    HELP!  First of all, I want to start off by saying that all I'm looking
    for here is information about the after effects of getting a cat
    declawed.  I don't need a lecture on how cruel it is.  I feel bad
    enough about the whole situation.
    
    History:  I have three cats (1-3/4 yrs, 1-1/2 yrs, 1 yr).  I have
    brought them up with 2 scratching posts.  They used them with no
    problem.  Didn't touch my rugs, didn't touch my bed, didn't touch my
    couch.  I moved in December with my old couch and they still used the
    scratching posts.  Then I bought a brand new couch and loveseat.  They
    seemed to like that a bit better than the scratching post.  They still
    used the scratching post most of the time.  I moved the posts to the
    corners where they were scratching.  Worked somewhat.  Then, I bought a
    VERY expensive diningroom table with ALL CLOTH chairs (legs and
    everything).  Mistake!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  I don't have enough
    scratching posts to cover all four legs of all 6 chairs.
    
    Hence, I've decided to get them declawed after 27 years of saying that
    it was cruel and that I would never do that to my cats.  Talk about a
    conflict!!!!
    
    I'm deathly afraid that one of my cats is going to have problems
    adjusting to this....after I got her spayed, she was afraid of
    everything....and still is.  She even runs away from me most of the
    time.  I feel so bad.  Is it going to get worse after the declawing. 
    Is it very painful for them?  The doctor said it was like an
    amputation.....YIKES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  Is that true?
    Any insight from those who have experienced this would greatly be
    appreciated.  I'm feeling so guilty but I can't afford to replace a
    $1700 dining set...
    
    michele
                                                     

    Michele,
    
    I'm pretty much convinced that the success rate of declawed cats has
    more to do with the vet who performs the surgery than the actual
    process itself.  It is a tricky operation and some vets don't do it
    often enough to become adept at it.
    
    Before you go with your own vet (even though you might love him to
    death and trust him), you might want to check around with folks who
    have had cats declawed with no painful after affects and see who
    performed the surgery.  A good friend of mine declawed her 4 cats.  She
    used two different vets because her original vet (the one who was good
    at the surgery) couldn't take all 4 on one day and she wanted them all
    done at the same time.  So, she scheduled two with a different vet who
    botched the procedure.  Both cats have recovered nicely but the healing
    process was a lot longer.
    
    Just my .02.
    
    -Roberta
    

proper procedure, proper amount (and not one iota more) of anesthesia, and
a relaxed "mom" is what makes declawing successful...I had to have one of
my cats done, and one of the strays I placed came back to me declawed...now
I have two cats with and two cat without claws.  All are just like they
always were - no traumas from the procedure.  I had a male, however, who
suffered residual pain because his claws were poorly done.  So, my advice
is...DON'T LOOK FOR A BARGAIN...find a vet who will understand why you are
doing the procedure, and make sure the vet ONLY REMOVES THE CLAW, not the
first whole joint of the toe.  Yes, removal of just the claw leaves the
possibility that it may grow back (very slim chance), but removing the toe
joint almost guarentees the cat will have arthritis or some other joint pain
in the feet later.  I opt for the long-term comfort of the cat.  Pick a vet
who knows how to operate, and indeed does many operations, ON CATS...the
anesthesia can force permanent personality changes if overdone - it can
cause brain-damage.  Don't be intimidated.  If the vet brushes off your
questions, find another vet.  I suggest you call around to "cat-only"
vets and ask if they do declawing...if a negative attitude is expressed,
call someone else.

If you persevere, you will find a compassionate, competent vet who can take
care of you and your cats.  YOU ARE NOT COMMITTING A CRIME!!!..getting rid
of the cats to a shelter or pound would be a crime... you are finding a way
to keep them in their home where they are loved and protected, even though
they cause damage.  Don't be intimidated by others' opinions...you are the
one who has to live with the destruction - and you have a right to minimize
it.

    
    
    OK, thank you for all the replies.....as a result of the replies to my
    original note, I have talked to 4 different vets.  All have said the
    same thing that my original vet said.  They HAVE to remove the nail AND
    first toe joint and they don't know of anyone who performs any other
    procedure.  I've even told them of what you have suggested.  One vet
    gave me some suggestions to try before going the declaw root which I
    might try if I do chicken out tomorrow morning.  She said she doesn't
    like to declaw because it IS like a mini-amputation.
    
    One noter gave me her vets name who said that they only take the nail
    off to the nail bed.  I called to confirm this to find one around me
    who followed the same procedure and they informed me (TWICE) that they 
    DO in fact remove the first toe joint.
    
    If anyone can give me the name of a vet who will tell me otherwise, I'd
    love it, but so far, my initial fears have been confirmed.
    
    Thanks,
    Michele (totally confused now!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)

    Michele,
    
    I was told you are from Worcester.  I live in Grafton.  The vet I use
    is a housecall vet in Grafton.  (She has a clinic in her home for
    surgeries.)
    
    Her name is Dr. Linda Breitman, and she is great.  She is young, a
    graduate of Tufts, and her husband is the head of Anesthesiology at
    Tufts.  If you would like to give her a call, let me know.  I have a
    lot of faith and trust in her.
    
    -Roberta
    
    

    A humiliating misuse. Just for ... no, I cannot understand.

    re.  .41
    
    Excuse my ignorance...but are you saying that it's a misuse of the word
    amputation in that it's not like an amputation or it's a misuse of the 
    procedure to declaw a cat?  I am not being sarcastic...but very
    serious.  I think you  meant the latter, but I just wanted to make
    sure.  
    
    re.  my original memo
    
    I brought them in this morning...I feel like a louse like i'm sure many
    of you feel I am.  I keep reaching for the phone to tell them to not do
    it, but then I don't.  
    

    Michele,
    
    It doesn't matter what anyone else thinks.  If you feel comfortable
    with your decision then that is what counts.
    

    Michelle:
    
    On the subject of declawing - my vet made a statement that made a lot
    of sense to me.
    
    He was on a talk show and the subject came up.  He mentioned that he
    had 4 cats and one was declawed.  His opinion was that in many cases
    when declawing was the only solution to a problem(s) it in fact saved
    the lives of many cats.  In other words, frustrated pet owners who
    would not opt for the surgery would either give up their animals or
    have them put down.
    
    You obviously love your animals very much and want to keep them with
    you.  Don't be hard on yourself - and I'm sure they'll all be fine.
    Sending good thoughts for speedy recoveries.
    
    Giudi

My Hana has been through 4 homes before she came to me....one of the main
problems was that she has a very strong need to mark her scent everywhere...
and that action included clawing up the furniture, and wallpaper, real fast.
I have kept her for 5 years, and will keep her until one of us is gone just
because I was willing to take the step of declawing.  She is happy in a
home where she is loved...I think she would tell you her claws were not a
big price to pay for the security she has now...something she didn't have
for a long time.  And she still gets to scent mark to her heart's content...
it simply doesn't destroy furniture or walls now.

    wow, how the last few notes have made me feel a little better.  I have
    talked to the vet and they say all three are "resting comfortably".  I
    don't think they are awake now.  I was a mess at work this
    morning...crying and everything. 
    
    thanks everyone and i'll keep you updated on kitties once home...
    
    michele

And a gentle word from the moderator-on-duty...

We value differences in this conference.  Michele obviously agonized over this.
We should not make her agonize over our difference of opinions.

Mary

    
    
          There have been quite a few cats during my life that I have had
    that were declawed.  I adopted them this way,  someone else had already
    had the declawing done.   I have never noticed any problems physical or
    emotional from any of the cats.  They all lived or are living normally,
    can still climb trees,  hunt and catch prey.  They do develop their
    hissing more though.  Hissing, arching and puffing are effective in
    scaring off anyone!  They do it bigger than life.  It's funny
    sometimes.  They are aware they have no claws.   But they still do
    things like pretend they are sharpening their claws.  I don't let my
    cats outside much, usually just out in the alcove out back,  but I have
    seen all of them in action, you would never know they had no claws.
    Chief Kitty, the former TWO rodent control officer for DEC has no
    claws, but he used to hunt all kinds of prey and bring them to the
    lobby door for me.  He did that for years.  They don't seem helpless
    but they do know they lack that defense and develop other senses
    instead.  Some cats might bite more often if scared.
    4 of my 10 housecats are clawless currently.
    
    Denise and the gang

    re .41, .42 (and .43)                                 
    
    Excuse for coming so late - I live here in Hungary in other time
    dimensions as you... 
    
    In .41 I meant misuse of the cat... I had a rough day and was hating
    all people. Forgive that. I just cannot see animals mishandled.
    Declawing is sometimes a must - I see. Mods can delete my reply if it is
    hurting. I do not delete, for it reminds me (and perhaps all of us)
    not to reply in a first burst of emotions...
    
    As for .43, it is right. Read, but do not let influence you too much,
    what anyone else thinks. That anyone else meant it good - also if he
    cannot explain right for his English is not perfect...
    
    There is only one important thing: LOVE your cats. And I see you DO.
    Might they be happy and long with you.
    
    Old Nat from Budapest

    A view from the UK ....
    
    I am about to "invest" in some new furniture for the lounge - 3 seater
    sofa, 2 armchairs and a footstool. We have selected fabric that won't
    show the dirt, cat hairs and minor scratches. The furniture that we
    have at the moment is newish, but doesn't match. I know the cats (we
    have 3) will scratch the new suite and leave marks.... but it's their
    house too. If I had wanted a perfect house I wouldn't have pets. I
    personally would love an ivory damask suite, but it is not practical.
    The cost of my new furniture? In excess of 2000 pounds ( approx $3500).
    My parents think I'm mad, but I view it like this. When we decided to
    have pets, we accepted that the house/furnishing would suffer. We have
    chosen practical colours and fabrics round the house to reduce the
    shabby factor ;-) If you had children that spoilt the furniture you
    don't send them away or tie them up.
    
    Declawing is illegal in the UK. Ask yourself why. You can't have a
    perfect house and pets. You pay your money and make your choice.
    
    I thought long and hard about adding this note. I don't aim to upset
    anyone. I am not criticising. I am just offering an alternative view.
    Valuing differences has two sides - it should be possible to express
    both sides without offence being taken.
    
    Lisa.
    

    re 71.50
    Totally my op - I just could not write it that perfect.
    Nat

if you own your own home, and/or all the furniture, then you always have
the option of allowing them to be destroyed.  However, a great many of us
(at least in the USA), do not own where we live, but are renters, or we
share other's homes.  In that case, it is simply a decision of stopping
the damage or getting rid of the cat.  Many choose not to get rid of the
cat.  In my case, the decision to actually declaw came not so much because
of the damage to the house (not my house, but my very patient roommate's
house - for the record), but because Hana was also not getting along with
the older Siamese female in the house who had been declawed before I met
her.  Tabby was injured in one of their scuffles, so I decided to "even
the playing field" and declaw Hana.  After the declawing, the girls had
one more big fight, lots of screeching, howling, hissing, and wrestling...
and they became comfortable housemates, even sleeping together, until
Tabitha's death.  It was suggested I "get rid of" Hana because she wasn't
adjusting to Tabitha real fast, and because she destroyed wallpaper and
furniture.  I knew she would not find a home if placed in a shelter - she
wasn't a pretty little kitten anymore and she was pretty feral.  I decided
she should have a chance at life and made the choice to declaw.

There are many reasons to not declaw...and a real effort should always be
made to train the cat to use appropriate surfaces.  However, it has been my
experience that not all cats will train.  Period.  I now have two cats
without claws, and two cats with claws.  Both of the intact cats were
trained to use a scratching post by their breeders -- from their infancy
on.  They have never attacked furniture at all.  Hana was a feral kitten
from approx. 8 weeks until 6 months of age...it may be that the training
is most successful if done when the cat is very young.  I don't know.
All I do know is that I will not pass judgement on anyone trying to keep
a beloved pet, nor should anyone else.  We each do what we feel is right.

    Hi, it's me.  
    
    Thanks for all the replies.  I haven't taken anything said in here as
    extremely negative.  Believe it or not, I said I would never do this.  
    As a matter of fact, I always said it was cruel.  But mom (they're
    great, huh?) said some things to me which made me feel better, NOT
    GREAT, but better....
    
    In response to the person talking about the children (would I send them
    away?).  Obviously not.  I even said that to my mom who was saying that
    it was the only thing I could do.  Her comeback was that you can reason
    with children.  I will never say that what I did was the right
    thing to do, but I did it.  I'll probably never do it again because of
    how bad it made me feel to put them through that.  But they seem to be
    doing OK.  I'm just being careful to handle them carefully until the
    pain goes away.
    
    My three kitties came home from the vet yesterday.  The
    last two days have been H&ll for me so I'm sure it has been worse for
    the poor kitties.  I went to pick them up last night at about 5:00.  I
    brought my mom and my girlfriend so that all three would get attention
    at the same time.  Before we left the vet, I cuddled with all three one
    at a time, then we went home.
    
    My youngest is unbelievable.  She wasn't home for more than 10 minutes
    (and there's no exagerration here) and she had jumped on the bathroom
    counter, the diningroom table, and the kitchen counter.  She tried to
    scratch the post and everything.  The middle one seemed fine also, but
    I did notice her being a bit more careful when jumping up and down from
    the couch.  
    
    My feeling of being a louse came back when I saw my oldest jump out of
    the box and fall on her face.  They told me the older they are the
    more difficult it is for them.  THEY WERE RIGHT.  She is having the
    most trouble.  But this morning she was walking around a bit more than
    last night.  All three slept with me last night, unusual.  Maybe that
    means they still love me despite the surgery I put them through.
    
    One doesn't care for the newspaper I had to put in their litterbox. 
    She went on the rug. (serves me right, eh????   8'))
    
    Thanks for the support and I do value everyone's opinion in here.
    
    Michele (and Precious and Princey and Pookie)
    
    

    Michele...
    
    They are home, they still love you and that is all that matters.
    
    Even though I do not believe in declawing...I give you so much
    credit for doing what you needed to do to keep these cats and give
    them such a wonderful home.    All your worrying...really makes
    me realize these guys could not have a better mom.
    
    They have already forgiving you...so forgive yourself!
    
    Sandy
     

    Michele,
    
     I usually stay out of this type conversation, but my heart has really
    gone out to you through this. I am of the standing that if it means
    keeping or not keeping the cats, then declawing would be the way to go.
    I think you made the decision you needed to make in order to keep your
    furfaces safe, as well as your furniture. I think you did the right
    thing for you. 
    
     Now that you know they are all OK, and that they still all love you,
    I'm sure any guilt feelings you may be feeling will evaporate quickly.
    Even the oldest one will be back to normal soon. It will take a little
    getting used to for them, I'm sure. I have trouble when I break a nail
    and have to trim them all back! I feel challenged myself! But then I
    get used to it, and adjust. They will too, and since they are so loved
    and cared for, I'm sure they'll adjust very quickly.
     
     Please don't feel guilty! You're a good mom! You had to make a really
    tough decision, and I feel you made the right one. Better declawed than
    sent away! 
    
     Also, not to try to bring flames on myself, the people that ask if you
    would send away your children if they got to be too much, must remember
    that they would probably do SOMETHING about the behavioral problems, it
    just wouldn't be to have them declawed! You just did the same thing.
    Took care of a behavioral problem that you couldn't handle on your own.
    
     So, now that I've rambled on forever, I guess my point is. Feel good
    about yourself, and what you did. Your the only one who knows the best
    for you and yours. I for one am proud of you!
    
    Hugs to you and the furballs!
    
     Love,
     Y 

    gee....i haven't written in t his notesfile very much...but it is
    obvious to me that everyone in here is very supportive and thoughtful. 
    Thank you for all being here.  I really felt like I had some good
    friends I could talk to during those rough two days.
    
    Thanks everyone!!!!!!!
    
    michele

    Michele,
    Do not feel bad. Only you can know what had to be done. I am straight
    and seriously against declawing. But -2 is right, too, for a safe home
    is better than sent away...
    
    Love is more important than claws.
    
       Nat

    I rent the cottage I live in and one of my two cats is not declawed.  I
    am going to have to do this soon.  You should see my woodwork!  Bilbo
    Baggins scratches at the bathroom door every time I go in.  Leaving the
    door open is not an option.  My question is this.  How much (about) is
    this going to cost me?  I am going to call several vets to see, but I
    thought I'd ask here first.  Also, is it reasonable to ask for a "deal"
    if I get him fixed at the same time?  Calvin (my first cat) came from
    the shelter fixed and declawed.  Now it is Bilbo's turn.  He just
    turned 1 year old.  Is this the right time to do this?  Is is ok to do
    both at the same time?  Do vets accept monthly installments?
    
    Thank you for your help.
    
    Catherine

I have no idea how much declawing costs.  What does Bilbo have in the way of
a scratching post?  Have you tried spraying him with a squirt bottle when
he scratches?  Training takes time, patience, and most of all consistency.
Cats scratch by nature.  He needs something on which to exercise what comes
naturally to him.  After he is declawed, your vet may ask that you keep him
away from a regular litter box and use only shredded paper towels or something
like that until he heals.  Others here can shed more light on that.

As for neutering, most vets recommend neutering males at 7 to 9 months.
At 1 year old, he's going to start doing some pretty nasty spraying that
will smell to high heaven for an eternity.  He needs to be neutered soon.
Real soon.  Your vet may offer a special rate to do both procedures at the
same time.  Most vets do not like anethestizing small animals too often, so
I'd imagine if you don't have the procedures done together, you'll have to
wait perhaps 6 months between them.

Do you have a regular vet?  Is Bilbo up to date on his shots?  Most vets 
will require this before surgery.

As for working out a 'deal' on payment, every vet's policy will differ.
I'd suggest you talk with your vet.  You will not be the first person to
discuss cost, nor will you be the last, especially these days!

Cheapest of all would be redirecting Bil's scratching to a designated place,
like a tall, sturdy scratching post.  Cats tend not to like little (cheap)
wimpy ones because they are not stable enough for the cat to really lean
into it and get a good stretch.

Mary

    Mary,
    
    Thank you for your help.  Bilbo has started spraying, it hadn't occured
    to me that he is doing that because he isn't fixed.  I have been
    changing the litter box all the time lately.  He wouldn't use it if it
    got too dirty.  So I thought it was that.  Oops!  And I thought I knew
    cats!  Blush blush.  He will be neutered in 3 weeks if I can help it.
    
    It is difficult to spray Bilbo when I am in the bathroom, I am on the
    other side of the door.  
    
    And no, Bilbo has not had shots, I found him and really didn't have the
    money to take him in for shots etc.  Okay, okay, before some one gets
    angry here, I am off to the vet to set up a schedule to do all this.  
    Please don't scold me, I do know better and I will do something now that 
    I have been reminded.
    
    However, this is the Declawing note, so I will see what I can do to
    build a post of wood and carpet.  Anyone else ever do this?   I will
    keep you all posted. 
    
    I do plan on getting him declawed.  I will let you know how that goes
    here and discuss neutering in the appropriate note.
    
    Thanks for listening.
    
    Catherine

    The "declawing" subject is a touchy one in this notesfile....
    
    A lot of organizations offer discount neuter/spay certificates
    at a low fee....I don't know where you are, but if you do use
    a discount certificate, you cannot get the cat declawed at the
    same time.  Most organizations disagree with de-clawing, mainly
    because in the event something happens, (to the owner), the cats
    are hard to place being declawed...
    
    L-

If you're gonna build a scratching post, make sure the base is big and
heavy.  Maybe like a 3 foot square.  Then get a nice tall pole and nail
it securely to the base.  As for the carpet, you might try turning it
inside out--lots of cats prefer something they can really sink their claws
into.  It doesn't have to be elaborate, just big and sturdy.

Yup, he's spraying because his a MAN!  The spraying may continue even after
he's neutered--it may not, only Bilbo knows!!  But it sure will get rid of
that awful smell.  It's not the litter box--it's the smell of a whole male
cat at work!!

No scolding here!  My 7 are a huge financial drain....

Mary

    Off to the vet this weekend!  In order, this is what I am going to do.
    
     Make a scratching post
    
     Take Bilbo in for shots
    
     Get Bilbo fixed
    
     Have him declawed.
    
    There is no telling how long this process will take, this little guy
    sure is costing a lot of money!  But I will get him in for his shots
    this weekend.
    
    Catherine

    
    What good will a scratching post be without claws?  Or are you going to
    make the post, see if he uses it and as the last resort have him
    declawed?
    
    ...Rania

    
    
    My declawed cat LOVES the scratching post.  And the back of my sofa. 
    And my back when I am in bed. 

    Calvin, my declawed cat, doesn't know that he is without claws.  He
    sharpens them on doors, chairs, table legs, almost everything.  By
    building my scratching post, I hope to distract Bilbo Baggins long
    enough so that I can save enough money to have him declawed.  And who
    knows, he may not need the operation if he likes the post well enough.
    
    What good is the scratching post to 2 cats without claws?  Just another
    toy for them to play with.  Maybe they will like it.  Stranger things 
    have happened.
    
    Catherine

    About 6 years ago, I had my cat, Charlie, declawed. (Sorry I did, cause
    he'd make a great HHP cat at the shows!)
    
    Anyhow, about 3 months ago, he started chewing on his toe! I kept
    yelling at him, but about a week ago, I noticed blood! He'd started
    biting his toe so hard, and so much, that he got it infected and
    started bleeding!
    
    So, off to the vet, and you won't believe what happened? His toenail
    was starting to grow back in!  Evidently, the newer methods of
    declawing are different than they were 6 years ago. Six years ago they
    didn't go all the way to the root (I won't explain the GORY details
    that the vet did, but it wasn't a pretty explanation). Now, they use
    sutures and do it 'properly'. Anyhow, he had to have surgery to AGAIN
    remove the nail! He was limping the first day, but seems to be fine
    now. They shaved his little paw -- SO pathetic!
    
    He doesn't chew on his toe anymore, but I just wanted to let people
    know that if they see their cat chewing on a declawed paw, to take them
    in before it gets infected!
    
    Cheryl

    I think that even now different vets use different methods of
    declawing, and a fairly common problem is not removing the claws
    totally, so that quite some time later one or more can regrow,
    and because they're regrowing from a damaged bed, problems almost
    always arise due to the claw being twisted, etc.
    

    It's called "soft paws", and is actually glued to the
    tips of the cats claws.  They need to be replaced as
    the claws grow/shed.

    
    FWIW.....the Soft Paws lasted 2 1/2 weeks on my Cyrano....then they
    just began disappearing one by one....  they weren't cheap, though at
    this writing I can't recall what they cost, but you had to have them
    applied by the vet because the company who makes them will only sell
    the to the vet for application.  My vet charges $25 for an office
    visit, and the soft paws cost on top of that....  so for me, it just
    wasn't worth it....  Cyrano didn't seem to mind them, but he is a 
    real digger (in the litter box) so they didn't last long ...
    
    Nan

    I just read through this entire note on declawing... Basically,
    I could have written Michele's note 71.36.  I have 3 cats (2 of them
    are almost 2 years old and one of the just turned 1) and I, like
    Michele, have never believed in declawing and swore I would never do it
    to my "babies"..... But, I have the same problem as many have regarding
    the destruction of my brand new house and furniture.  So, I am biting
    the bullet, so to speak, and made the appt. for next Thursday to get all
    3 done.  I'm not happy about it and everytime I think about it I get
    upset, but I have no alternative and I will NOT even think about
    getting rid of them.  I am very worried about this surgery and was
    wondering if anyone had any words of wisdom or if anyone has any 
    experience with Countryside Animal Hospital in Hudson, NH and how they
    are about the declawing process.
    
    I know that declawing is a very controversial subject in this notesfile
    and I'm not looking for a fight or argument about it.  What I really
    need is some feedback on how they will survive this and if anyone has
    any experience with Countryside Animal Hospital and declawing.  I am
    very worried.
    
    Thank you,
    Beth
    
    P.S.  Is 2 years old too old for them to heal properly after the
    surgery???

    
>    I know that declawing is a very controversial subject in this notesfile
>    and I'm not looking for a fight or argument about it.  What I really
>    need is some feedback on how they will survive this and if anyone has
>    any experience with Countryside Animal Hospital and declawing.  I am
>    very worried.
    
Beth,

the danger from any surgery is primarily due to the anesthesia.  If your
vet is competent and you trust her/him to perform surgery on your pet,
then you should trust the vet to remove the claws.  I have two cats
without claws and two cats with claws.  I had Missy Hana's claws removed
and Sam came back to me already declawed.  I know this wasn't an easy
decision, nor should it be - any surgery we subject our beloved pets
to should be carefully considered beforehand...and then taken care
of.  You are the best person to judge if this is needed, so don't let
anyone bother you about it.  My two declawed cats play "not the mama"
with the other two when playing, and everyone seems to hold their
own.  My two declawed cats don't have difficulty doing any activity
they choose to do, nor have they ever...perhaps they don't choose
to do some things because they don't have claws, but I don't see it
limiting them so I have no way of knowing.  Both cats still love
their favorite humans (me and Marge) and show no trauma from the
experience.  I believe my experience is the norm.

You may hear of cats that come back "different" after surgery...in
my opinion, that is probably much more a result of faulty anesthesia
rather than trauma from the declawing.  A good vet can avoid any
problems.

    
>    P.S.  Is 2 years old too old for them to heal properly after the
>    surgery???

not at all.  The cat is still young and healthy and will recover very
nicely.  After a week, you won't notice the surgery happened...and they
will be into just as much nonsense as they were before, bless them.

I personally think that when the choice is between a loving home and
being turned into a shelter, declawing is a wise, and loving, choice
and I'm sure your cats would agree.  

				D

I'm about to purchase a used baby grand piano and I'm concerned that my
two cats will start scratching the piano. They have scratched one
piece of furniture in the living room in the past, but they have not
scratched it recently (or only very little). I suspect this is because
I let them outside from early morning to mid-evening. Behind my condo
building is a wooden fence and I've seen them run from my condo straight
for the wooden fence and spend a few minutes working out their scratching
needs. (fortunetly, its an older fence so I'm not worried that the
condo association will give me hard time about the scratching). 

Initially, when I started looking into this conference I was looking for
ideas on how to protect the piano legs such as putting a protective
material over the wooden legs. I had'nt thought about de-clawing.
I've read through all the replies to this topic and will consider the
advice given. However, I do have one question:
Should a de-clawed cat be let outside ?. My two
cats do enjoy playing outside (they were born and lived outside for the
first several months of their life I was told). I'd hate to de-claw them
and then not be able to let them outside for concern about them being
unable about to fend for themselves.

Ed 

    Re: .73 piano and declawing
    
    My guess is they will have zero interest in the piano legs, because the
    legs are too narrow.
    
    If I'm wrong, try putting a scratching post near the target leg; 
    they'll probably prefer that.  Be sure the post is tall enough so that
    they can stretch out and heavy enough so that it's stable and won't tip
    over and frighten them when they try to use it.
    

    If you declaw your cat, please do not let them go outside.  Without
    their claws they are basically unable to protect themselves if
    necessary.
    
    Jan

    Definitely...declaw cats should not be left outside unattended!!
    The claws and their speed are the only two things that can somewhat
    protect the cat from other animals.
    
    When you bring the piano in....monitor the situation and if they
    start clawing the legs...get the ice cold sprayer and let them
    have it!!
    
    Sandy
    
    

    Actually, you needn't worry about damage to the piano until if and when
    it happens.  As previously suggested, the scratching post near the
    piano is a good idea.  Just find something better (in the cats mind)
    than a piano leg to rip apart.  Also, the word "no" spoken quite firmly
    works wonders.  Sooner or later your cats will get the message that
    they aren't allowed to mess with your baby grand!  I say this because
    we have trained out cats to understand that the dining room table was
    not designed for them, however, they do know that the little table out
    on the back porch is quite ok to lounge around on.

    Better yet, put the piano outside, leave the cats inside.  :^)  Sorry!  

if you want to control what your cats scratch, keep their claws trimmed
correctly ..... and give them something they prefer to scratch.  In the case
of our bunch, the desirable scratch targets are a sisal rope wrapped
scratching post and a box made of corrugated cardboard which I keep permeated
with catnip....these boxes are flat, approx. 12 inches long, and they are
filled with cardboard strips so that they have lots of nubby stuff to scratch
on.  They cost approx. $6.00 each and wear out, depending on the cats
enthusiasm, once a week or once a month.  Buy one, keep it filled with catnip
and your piano will simply not be interesting to scratch...trust me on this,
The Jersey Flash is a great test case when it comes to clawing stuff.

      my thought is they probably will not scratch the legs,  the scratches
    you may receive will be on the wood top, they will jump on it and
    scratch it that way.  My cats have never intentionally scratched any of
    my wood furniture, however they accidently scratch when jumping up,or
    down, playing and chasing each other and generally flying through the
    room.  The scratches are on the tops near the edges of horizontal
    surfaces. That can easily be solved for the most part by covering the
    piano when not in use I would think.
      You may find more of a problem with them wanting to accompany you
    while youre playing!  They can terrible musical abilities...;^)
    
       NO!  they cannot go out unattended with no claws..........

    
    re.77
    
    Not to meander from the original intent of this message, but it could
    be associated with declawing and this woman's request about her piano.
    
    I keep seeing people say "A firm NO works wonder"  Well, I guess I need
    to be enlightened then....
    
    I own a black glass dining room table on which my 3 cats are not
    allowed.  My cat KNOWS she's not supposed to be up there.  If I say
    'NO', she'll get down.  But she still climbs up there.  As a matter of
    fact, I think it's a game for her.  She gets up there, sprawls out....
    and all I have to do is look at her and stand up and she goes running
    off the table. 'NO' works after the fact....I'm not sure that it would
    save the piano though...8')  Are my cats just too independent?  Or
    what?
    

    RE: .80
    
    Mine do the same thing .. they KNOW they're not supposed to do certain
    things, but they do them every once in a while anyway.  I stand up and
    look at them and they run away before I get there.  The firm "NO" comes
    afterward.  But they still insist on doing what they're not supposed to
    do (like jumping on the counter, scratching at the rugh, etc.).
    
    Holly
    

    Uhm, that "woman's request about her piano" was Eds!

    Some of the discipline comes from *when* the cat was disciplined. 
    Adult cats vs kittens - that's two completely different mindsets
    although many cats don't seem to comprehend NO at any age.  :^)  

    Disciplined cats are a lot like disciplined kids.  A lot depends on the
    parent/owner.  I have never had an animal lounge on any of my kitchen
    counters (the ultimate deathwish in my book), scratch furniture, damage
    carpets, etc, etc...  Perhaps I'm stricter than others but I am very
    thankful that our cats understand the word no.  (and these are the cats
    that used to think the dining room table was theirs - but that only
    lasted for a very short time) Seeing that 2 out of 3 of our cats were
    abused, I tend to think we're doing ok in the obedience training
    department.  Maybe it's time to switch professions.  :^)  

I think this will tie the discipline/declaw discussions together..

At the age of five, my furry companion, Bacardi, deciding that
clawing furniture was fun.  At first, the *NO!* deterred her
efforts.  Then it was standing up at the same time.  Then 
moving toward the scene of the crime.

I tried a tasteful foil wrap around the spot on the already
beat-to-shreads chair she had chosen to sharpen her claws on.
She started on the couch.

Fortunately, my two roommates and I had a scrounged-up furniture
collection and no one really cared too much about the damage.

At the time, Bacardi was an indoor-outdoor cat, so I started 
putting her outside, with a firm *No* when she started shredding
furniture.  She then countered by scratching the chair then running
to the door.  "Ah-ha, when I want to go outside, I do this..."
Argh.  

The scratching also became a nightly ritual after we were all
tucked in for the night.  What's a mom to do?

The last straw:

I was visiting at Mom's.  My new step-dad would just as soon 
kick a cat as look at one.  (He was probably equally as fond of me.)
Bacardi absolutely destroyed one of their living room chairs - a nice 
one, that I had no money to replace or repair.  

I tried to correct the behavior for a year - yes, she had a great
scratching post - two of them.  She used them too. ;-}

I had a heart-to-heart with her vet - another one.  He is opposed 
to indiscriminant declawing, but agreed that I had made every 
attempt to get her to stop scratching furniture.  

So, at the age of six, Bacardi had her front claws removed.  At this
point in her life, she was never outside without my supervision
anyway, so no great impact to her life style.  She is now 14, and
still does the stretch-and-scratch routine - on the couch, on the
chairs.  She bites more when we play, but a loud *ouch* from me
results in kitty-licks all over my hand - more like a hand bath.

I guess I'd say, try to correct the behavior as best you can, but
don't jeopardize the relationship with your cat by a blanket belief
that declawing is *bad*.  It shouldn't be the first option taken 
either.  It is a situational decision - balance the best interest 
of the cat, person, both lifestyles and the relationship.

Lori

	Cats can be stopped from clawing what you don't want them too.

	The easiest is to give them something more attractive, this will work
	in 75% of cases, for those that this doesn't work for also try;
	(scratching posts, catnip, cress pillows.......)

	squirting them with cold water (much more effective and long-lasting 
	than shouting "no)

	cover the surface which they want to scratch with something else, 
	selotape on carpet is excellent, Chanel no 5 on wood (cheap alhohol
	loaded purfum works better, but I don't like the smells....neither do
	the sensative noses of the cats), or spray the legs with flea spray - 
	gauranteed to keep the cats away.

 	and keep their claws trimmed

	There is always a way. 

	I have had cats and been around cats all my life, and have never found
	a cat that can't be averted from scratching what they want, to 
	scratching what you want.

	The fact that declawing is illegal in this country means you end up with
	something that works with your cat in the end.

	Don't give up, there's always a way if you want to find it.

	Heather

    re: .84
    
>	selotape on carpet is excellent
    
    What is selotape?  I have a cat that likes to scratch the carpet, and
    I have been using regular packing tape, but it seems to stick to the
    carpet too much and she's been able to scratch through it sometimes to
    the carpet below.
    
    I'm interested in something better (btw, she never does it when I'm
    around, so discipline won't work).
    
    Valerie

	I think selotape is scotch tape to us.  (Cellophane tape).

	Sandy, Brit to American translator :^}

	Yup, selotape is sticky back clear tape.

	I have put it on the risers on stairs (not the treads) because mine 
	liked to claw that - don't put it where you walk!!!!!!!

	Because they can't get their claws into it, and it feels odd to them,
	they give up. 
	Also, one of my cats claws seem to be fairly blunted, but the 
	other ones' grow quite long and sharp, so I clip his claws once a
	fortnight and that helps his claws slide over the tape, rather than
	stick in.

	I was very pleased at the way he lets me clip his claws, as everything
	else I do he fights - he was an abused stray that found me when he
	was 5.5 months, and is very nervous about most things - you wouldn't 
	beleive how a 6lb adult cat can fight when you just try to brush him!

	Heather

    I have a new addition, Brutus, who has decided quite suddenly that he
    does not like one of my dogs.  He has almost taken the dog's eye out,
    opened up his nose, etc.  So I have decided he must be declawed. But I
    have another cat who is not declawed.  The two cats have been going at
    it lately, wrestling and getting a bit feisty, so I'm questioning
    whether just declawing one cat put him at risk with the other cat?
    Should I do them both to prevent any mishaps?  The dog that he is
    harrassing (actually attacking is a better word) does not have any front
    teeth, so he's kind of helpless.  
    Sarah  

Does anyone have experience with declawing work done by Dr. Robin Porter at
Ferry Road Animal Hospital in Nashua (New Hampshire, USA)?

Thanks,
Rich

(e-mail replies are fine.)

	I'm sure there is a note somewhere regarding this subject and I 
	appoligize for not looking.  

	Tigger, my 7 month kitten is tearing the house to shreads....
	I believe we will be keeping her as an indoor kitty, to date
	she has only gone outside with me on a leash.  What I need to know
	is your opinions on declawing kittens......I don't want to do 
	something I may regreat later....we plan on bring her to the 
	vet within the next month to be spayed, and I was hoping after
	she was spayed maybe she will calm down.....or should I just
	have her declawed at the same time??  Please what have you done?

	Thanks!
	Candy

	(My husband has told me if I don't decide something soon she 
	 goes ......I can't bear the thought of this!)

    Candy,

    Be prepared for the can of worms you just opened!  8^)

    This is a VERY controversial subject.  Some people feel it is
    mutilation, others feel it is OK!  What you have to do is look at all
    your options and then decide for yourself what is best for you and the
    cat!  Nobody has all the right answers for everyone else!

    If you do decide to have it done, do it at the same time as the
    spaying.  That way she will only have to be put under once and it will
    all be over with before she knows it!  Your vet will probably recommend
    this anyway (doing it at the same time, I mean).

    But as I said, YOU have to do what is best for your situation; and
    don't let anyone tell you that you are wrong in what you decide.  There
    are pros and cons to both.

    Thoughts,

    M-L

    PS

    I currently have 2 that are and 3 that aren't.  The 3 might be done,
    seeing as they have no fear of the spray bottle of water (they actually
    look right at me as I spray them, the little beasts)... But, they are
    locked up currently, ringworm, so I don't know if it will be different
    when they are released into the house.  It might be they use the chair
    in their room out of boredom, even though there is an Arrubacat cat
    tree in there!  We'll see what happens!

    M-L
    
     You don't expect them to ruin THEIR furniture do you!? ;-) Sorry,
    couldn't resist!
    
    Candy,
    
     I agree that this is a very individual decision. I don't think I could
    ever declaw my cats, furniture shredding or not, but as I stated in
    another note somewhere, (which I'm sure this note will be moved there
    too! ;-) ) I would rather see a cat declawed, and in a happy home where
    it is spoiled, than have it sent to a shelter or dumped or banished to
    the outdoors because of shredding. 
    
     I have heard horror stories too, but I think for the most part, the
    surgery goes smoothly, and the cats are no worse for the wear. I think
    a kitten recovers faster than a grown cat, and also recommend that if
    you decide to have it done, do it at spay time.
    
     You are the one that has to decide what is right for you and your
    family and kitty. Good luck. It's never easy, but I'm sure you'll do
    the right thing for you.
    
    Love,
    
    Yonee

    
    	Candy,
    
    	I'm one of those STRONGLY opposed to declawing, but agree with
    	M-L that everyone must make their own choice.
    
    	What methods/tools have you used to deter Tigger so far? There
    	are NUMEROUS tips and pointers throughout this file for curtailing
    	this type of behavior.
    
    	Personally, I too had a Tiggr and I called him my "Tarzan cat"
    	when he was a kitten - swinging off curtains was his favorite
    	trick. Balloons taped to the curtains (popped upon impact) and
    	mist bottles won out. A scratching post laced with catnip also
    	encouraged his attentions elsewhere. I used to trim his nails
    	regularly since he was an indoor only kitty. Having hardwood
    	floors it was easy to tell when he was due ... click, click,
    	click. My living room looked like a playroom with all of the
    	kitty toys strewn around, but it diverted Tiggr's attention
    	from the curtains and furniture. 
    
    	I would urge you to try as many alternate methods as possible
    	to break the habit BEFORE declawing. He may grow out of it
    	soon, but declawing is permanent.
    
    	Good luck!
    
    	Heidi

    Is there a kind of pattern around the clawing the funiture?  Mine rip
    at the carpet if they want to get my attention:  I want to be fed, let
    out, a clean kitty box.  They claw at the chairs when they want to
    sharpen their claws and can't get out.  I find that picking up the cat
    and making a fuss if it, instead of giving in and giving them what the
    want, works quiet well.  A squirt gun works some of the time and when
    they are in a real temper I shut them in the large travel cage we keep
    for sick or injured kitties.  If all else failes, get rid if the man of
    the house and buy new furniture :>)  :>)
    
    I just don't like the thought of declawing as my vet has told me the
    cat does experience some constant pain, but that's just me.  You do
    what you think is best for your family and the cat.  Just try a few of
    the suggestions in this note before you do.  Remember it takes two
    weeks of constant behavioral modification to get a cat to change.
    
     
    
    I have one of those (overpriced) cardboard clawing boxes from one of
    the mail order catalogs (Miles Kimbal) that has cat nip sprinkled in
    the folds.  It works.  They use that instead.

Thanks for the tips....we have tried the spray bottle, (after we get out of the
shower she jumps in...one time she just jumped in with my husband...she loves
water!) newspapers, making noises we have a kitty condo when she started
clawing something i brought her over there and all she did was walk away 
and scratch something else or curl up and go to sleep....

the one thing that really rots here is that my husband picked her out and
brought her home as a suprise....he laied down the laws....no counter tops
no kitchen table, you feed her and clean the box ....oh and no sleeping with
us!!!!!   we haven't been able to break her of the table...he now feeds
her in the am and every night he is the one that brings her to bed...so i know
he loves her just as much as i do.....I guess he is saying the decision
is mine........

Thanks again!

    My own personal opinion is I would not declaw any one of my cats....
    but I do agree with Yonee that if it means giving the kitty a wonderful
    home or having to get rid of it...I would vote for the declawing.
    
    I like Heidi's ideas as to try different things first before
    you make the decision.  Does your kitty have any place that
    he can claw like a cat tree or one of those boxes?  Have 
    you attempted to try the squirt bottle to stop this behaviour?
    Have you thought of getting him a kitty friend who he can
    play with?? (hey I had to throw that one in!!!)  Do you keep
    is nails trimmed????
    
    The decision is definitely yours....and whatever decision you
    do make...don't let other people tell you differently.  Everyone
    is entitled to their own opinion and they should not judge you for 
    yours.
    
    The real KEY is to remember that if you do declaw...your kitty
    should never be left outside unattended.  If you have any future
    thoughts of letting the kitty outside...do NOT have him declawed.
    
    Sandy

    Here here! I was just about to add the indoor only part if the
    declawing does happen! Thanks Sandy! 
    
    If it's any consolation Candy, I have a friend, who had all four feet
    declawed on his cats (now don't jump on him, he developed a real bad
    illness AFTER falling in love with the kitties, and couldn't take a
    chance on getting scratched. So it was declaw totally, or risk his own
    life!) And they show no ill effects. As a matter of fact, the male
    still goes through the motions of shredding the furniture, but there is
    no damage. He has learned to grip pretty tightly with his toes too!
    They like to have their toes rubbed now too. ;-)
    
    Hope this helps!
    
    Yonee

    Has anyone seen the show "Pet Connection" on cable tv - the Discovery
    Channel?  In the Northern Worcester (MA) Country area it is on each
    night at 6:30 (I think).  Dr. Berney Pukay (sp ?) is the 
    veterinarian and is aired from Canada.
    
    Last week there was a segment on training cats - the do's and don'ts
    for scratching furniture.  He had two suggestions.  One, to use the
    spray bottle but when using it - don't speak.  The reason behind that
    is that if you spray the cat with water when he/she is expressing
    negative behavior - they will associate the behavior with getting
    wet - which they don't like.  If you speak, then they are apt to
    do it when you aren't at home.  The other technique was to use a 
    soft pillow - and to throw it near the animal - again, not speaking.
    
    Made sense to me.  He stressed that if you say "no" - just to say
    it - don't use the water and/or the pillow or clapping of hands.
    Usually "no" doesn't work.
    
    He said to provide a scratching post and every time the cat scratches
    furniture and/or wood - to physically remove the cat from doing it
    and bring it to the post.  Take the paws and "scratch" the post ...
    hoping (ha) that the cat will do THAT when he/she wants to exercise.
    
    Worth trying.
    
    ...and the show, I think, is an excellent one!
    
    Marilyn
    

    I watch Dr. Berney every chance I get! He has some really good things
    to say, and I've learned quite a bit, because he shows you what he
    means on a real kitty/dog when explaining it. (when possible. he
    doesn't usually show surgeries and such. Mostly the stuff we can do
    ourselves as pet owners.)
       
    I also love it when he says "aay" or "eh" like the Canadians tend to
    do. That was when I realized he was Canadian! ;-)
    
    I saw that show, but sort of forgot. :-( I do that a lot these days as
    you all know! 8-}
    
    Yonee

    Well, add me to the group who would never declaw one of my cats (I have
    three) but, when my aunt and uncle moved to Florida about 10 years ago,
    they decided to have their cats declawed.  The reasons were that the
    cats now had a beautiful screened in patio where they could get their
    "outside time" - they had been indoor/outdoor cats back in Mass. and
    they were concerned about the cats scratching the screens and,
    possibly, escaping.
    
    Well, of their two cats, one died at the age of 16 about three years
    ago and the other is still going strong at 16-17 years old.  They
    adjusted beautifully to the declawing.
    
    

    Well, I feel if it means the difference between a cat having a good,
    loving home or being given up for adoption or thrown into the streets
    because it claws the furniture, then I am all for declawing.  As I have
    always stressed in here when the topic arises, please ensure the vet
    performing the surgery is VERY ADEPT at it.  The reason so many
    procedures are botched is because the vet doesn't practice declawing
    often, and isn't skilled at it.  Ask for recommendations from folks you
    know have had their cats declawed with no adverse affects.
    
    Just my humble .02!
    
    -Roberta
    

    Weeelllll..... 
    I'd never declaw one of mine, but I second (third ... maybe eighth) the
    notion that a loved declawed kitty is tops over a discard to a shelter.
    
    I vouch for careful patient training. I have four (was six, but an
    unfriendly neighbor gave three a 'free' ride to various parts of the
    county. My fav kitty was killed on the way back, two others were
    recovered, but one of them has since picked up 'wanderlust' and is
    missing since late June) But back to the training ... The pick up and
    show them what is expected bit works. As do spray bottles. (Even though
    they like the wet, they don't like getting wet when they don't want to
    be!) But most of all patience.  I grow catnip in my kitchen window sill
    and they don't bother it. (Until I pick some for them, then they go
    berserk!) It took some time with some of them (my ornamental minature
    roses were eaten, and Sinbad (The currently wandering one) was curled
    up in the flowerpot asleep when I came home) and some aggravation, but
    they are all perfect little ladies (at least while I'm watching) now.
    BTW I (depending on which cat) either sharply say 'No!', spray with
    water, or hiss at them when the misbehaved. They're much better now :-)
    (They train me by hissing at me when I blow it. It is only fair eh!
    and just like when I tell them it is all OK and stroke them a while
    after they stop being bad, or praise them when they are good, they will
    come up to me shortly after I do something bad (like pick them up when
    they are soaked from playing in the rain (yes I have strange cats!))
    and purr and 'touch' to let me know it is all ok.) Patience and love
    wins out.
    
    Tjp

    One thing to remember when you remove a cats paws from the furniture
    and make scratching motions on the correct places...do not do it in
    anger.  Try to keep your tone level and pleasant.  Otherwise, they
    will begin to associate your anger with the place you are trying to
    get them to scratch.
    
    Does that makes sense...when I reread it I'm not sure.
    
    Jan

	I always wonder why cats can't be encourage to claw at something which 
	is more attractive than furnature.

	It is illegal to declaw cats in the UK, maybe this gives people
	an added incentive to provide alternative attractive scratching places,
	and work with their cats a bit more, if they have a troublesome one.

	Two of my cats were easy to get to use the scratching post, the third 
	wasn't, however moving them to the post, providing a jute/hemp type
	door mat, and scolding them when they did wrong, eventually did the
	trick.......water didn't work with my cat, so I just kept just trying 
	something that might work on that cat....foil, lemon, no-scratch, 
	cat-pepper,scolding, water, clapping hands, picking him up moving him 
	to the scratch post and "clawing" for him................there are lots 
	of things to try.
	
	It can be done if you want to.

	Heather

  Based on my experience where I work, I would expect most vets to have lots of
experience declawing - that and neutering make up a majority of our surgeries.
Tumor excisions, laceration repairs and dentistries make up a lot of the
remainder. We have 3 doctors and I'll bet they average 1-2 declaws a week each.
Since we're in the city it could be a more prevalent operation (more indoor
cats). Anyway, there are a couple of different approaches to declawing - how
far back on the toe you cut. If the cut is done far enough back they don't
grow back. If you take less they can grow back in. Is that what you meant by
"botched"?

						Trace

    Trace,
    
    Yes, that is what I meant.  I have a friend who had her four cats
    declawed.  She wanted them done all on the same day, but her regular
    vet would only take two, so she used another vet to do the other two. 
    Well, the two cats that came back from her regular vet acted like they
    didn't even undergo surgery.  No blood or resulting infection, and they
    were jumping on furniture and countertops almost immediately.  The
    other two returned in obvious pain and discomfort, and one was so badly
    bloodied and infected she had to undergo a second surgery.
    
    Perhaps you are correct; in the city there are more indoor cats and so
    city vets would perform declawing as easy as a spay or neuter.  Here in
    the country, the procedure is less prevalent.
    
    -Roberta
    

    
    	At what age can a kitten be declawed and what does it usually cost?
    	
    	/andy

    Andy,
    
    At 6 months you can get your cat declawed and at my vet (Abbott Animal
    Hospital (Worcester, MA), it cost $50.  Even though I was reluncant to
    do it, all five cats went through without a problem.  It hasn't
    affected them at all; it just makes me laugh when they stretch their
    little paws on my fabric dining room chairs....
    
    If you have any questions and want to write off-line, feel free...this
    is a very controversial subject in this notefile....
    
    michele

    Does anyone have experience of getting all four paws declawed? (front
    first, then back, I would assume)  We have a longhair who is
    hypersensitive to being handled, won't groom herself, and now has
    fleas. I've sustained some exceedingly painful injuries trying to deal
    with the flea problem, much more than scratched hands or arms.  And I'm
    thinking about the next 10 or 15 years of trying to groom a cat who can
    inflict similar injury (she's 2 now).
    
    I understand that the issue of to declaw or not to declaw is
    controversial for many cat owners, so please, if your decision is not
    to declaw, I respectfully ask that you not spend time trying to talk me
    out of the decision. I would be very interested in hearing other
    people's experiences with this, though.
    
    Thanks,
    Lynn

    One cat we adopted a few years ago is completely declawed.  But,
    considering his personality, I can understand why.  He is incredibly
    hyper, nervous, untouchable and will bite and "scratch" at anything.
    When he wants to be, he will turn into a huge beansack, purring and
    all, but just look,, don't touch!
    He is aware that he has no claws and uses his teeth for everything.
    He knows he cannot climb, but still pretends to sharpen his claws
    on the sisal post.  He can jump 8' high.  He is deathly afraid of
    confrontations, and will roll over on his back when attacked by
    the other cats.  He doesn't seem to know the difference between
    play and really being attacked. He takes everything as a personal
    assault.  He has come to the realization he is safe with us, but
    he will hide under the furniture if he hears dog tags, even if it's
    just a dog walking by, when it thunders, if the other cats are
    playing aggressively, etc.  I dont' know if he always was this way,
    or if he got this way once whomever once owned him declawed him.
    We adopted him from MSPCA.  I got the impression he bit the children
    of the former owners, and they just couldn't handle it, hence he was
    shipped out.
       How old is your cat now?  Does he behave at all like the above?
    I wish I could say for sure if doing such a thing changes their
    behavoir or whether its their behavior that causes owners to declaw
    them in the first place.  I wish I had known Kooki before...
    
    

I'd guess that maybe 1-3% of the cats we declaw include rear claws. Usually,
they've already had their front claws removed, although once in a while one
comes in to have all four done.

						Trace

    re: .110
    
    Ewok is two years old.  She's been with us since we found her crying in
    the cellar at age 4 weeks.  
    
    She'll let us pet her, but only for a very short time, then she bits or
    hisses or lashes out with her claws.  The thing is, she seeks us out
    and wants to be with us, i.e. sleeps on the bed with us, comes running
    when we come home, will play with toys we throw to her, etc. - but she
    can't take being touched for more than a short time.  She can be picked
    up, but again, it lasts for only a short time - she gets antsy and
    wants to get down.  
    
    Her behavior looks very confusing to people who don't know her, as 
    she really seems to be "torn" in two directions - wanting to be around 
    her people, and not being able to tolerate being touched.
    
    She acts a lot like hyperactive kids I've known, in that *everything*
    catches her attention, she has a very hard time relaxing enough to fall
    asleep (and doesn't sleep much at all, particularly during the day when
    the other two are napping like normal cats!), and is easily disturbed
    once she's asleep. 
    
    She doesn't seem to be afraid of our other two cats at all; in fact,
    she really enjoys wrestling with Max (who is 10, fairly placid, and
    outweighs her by a good 10 pounds!), and she tries to approach Noel
    (also 10, and very much a solitary soul).  She's recently become afraid
    of thunder, which happened during a particularly fierce storm.
    
    Most recently, while trying to rid our three of fleas, we attempted to
    give her a bath with flea shampoo - my fiance holding her and me 
    applying the water and shampoo. My fiance got out of it with "merely"
    deeply scratched arms and hands. I got a *very* painful injury to my
    thumb (hind claw dug deeply into the pad at the base of my thumb,
    resulting in major bleeding within the tissue) which is still sore now,
    two weeks later.
    
    Lynn 

    Re: .111
    
    Trace,
    
    We're thinking of having the front ones done first, then the back ones
    after the front heal.  Seems it would be pretty uncomfortable trying to
    walk on all four paws that were healing at the same time!
    
    Lynn
    

    More re: .111
    
    The other thing is, Ewok is long haired and doesn't groom herself - we
    were able to teach her how to eat canned cat food, but not how to
    groom!  As a result, she frequently has hairmats, particularly around
    the base of her tail. And if she has a problem with "poopy butt", it's
    a *real* problem.  
    
    I'm thinking about all these things, her hyper-ness, her lack of
    grooming skills, and the fleas; and thinking about living another 10-15
    years with this sweetie pie who can't keep herself clean and won't
    allow us to take care of it.  At least if she's declawed, she won't be
    able to inflict damage on us!
    
    Lynn

    
    
    Lynn, a lot of cats that are as hyper usualy calm down and have 
         a happier life with some medication. It has been mentioned
         in this file before that peeple with cats of similar behavior
         have (by vets prescription) given their cats a quarter of a 
         a valume or proban (sp?) and have been very happy with results.
         I hope someone with personal experience in this would respond.
    
    Shaw

    Lynn....just beware that many cats who are declawed will start
    using their teeth to do the damage.  Declawing might also make
    her afraid of the other cats because they will have an advantage
    over her.
    
    Sandy...
    
    

    I'm not a animal behaviorologist, but I play one at home (4, possibly 5
    cats, a rabbit, three ferrets and fish...).  :)
    
    That said:
    
    Sounds to me like Ewok has the cat equivalent of an emotional disorder.
    (Some cats are "psycho", just like people. :)  I wonder if this might
    have something to do with the fact that she was apparantly motherless
    at 4 weeks.  That's very early to acquire a kitten -- if she just showed
    up in your cellar, maybe her mother met an untimely demise.  Her
    seemingly uncertainty dealing with the world could be a
    result of having been so young.
    
    I have a cat with similar behavioral problems.  She's very, very shy
    and only since I've moved into a place on my own (with my various other
    pets) has she seemed to "warm up" a bit.  And I've had this cat for 4
    years.  Got her when she was a kitten (6 months old or thereabouts),
    she was born feral and caught.  Another somewhat older cat was caught
    about the same time and I have her, too.  The other cat has adjusted
    very well -- she acts like a normal bouncy housecat.  Christie on the
    other hand, is extremely skittish of people, and doesn't interact much
    with the other cats at all.  She knows how to use the litterbox all
    right, but not how to "play".  She's somewhat friendly with my neutered
    male, but that's it.  Otherwise she spends much of her time in
    self-imposed hiding.  I have no idea if Christy was exceptionally young
    when parted from her mother -- I don't think she was extremely young
    when caught.
    
    She *does* demonstrate moments of friendliness.  She never comes
    when called, save to eat, but will sometimes *not* run slinking past me
    but loiter in the living room and roll around.  She enjoys being petted 
    and brushed, but maybe 50% of the time, she'll decide something scared 
    her and off she goes to hide.  I'm apparantly "safe" when I've just
    come out of the shower, or when she's really sleepy and I've just woken
    her up.  She gets nervous if I'm wearing shoes (they make noise! :) 
    She likes attention, but is afraid of it, which sounds like what you
    described as Ewok.
    
    Christy scratched like a wildcat when I first got her. She hates to be
    picked up or handled, and baths -- she doesn't like that either. 
    However, after four years of this, she has calmed down some -- she
    doesn't flail madly anymore.  I haven't been scratched badly by her in
    a couple years.
    
    I'm *not* trying to talk you out of declawing Ewok -- I'm lucky that
    Christy is a short hair and she does groom herself (I guess.  I never
    see her enough to see her actually give herself a bath, but her coat's
    clean :)  Also, as much as a handful as Christie was (is), you know if
    Ewok is worse.  I *am* trying to offer hope that Ewok may calm down a bit
    for you (irrelevant to being declawed or not), so there's hope for the
    maladjusted cat yet.  Lots and lots of patience and lots of
    determination on the owner's part.  It's tough.
    
    As for declawing, I've had one cat declawed, but only her front feet
    and that was ten years ago.  I've not noticed any adverse effects --
    Ashely doesn't seem to know or care that she doesn't have any front
    claws.  She climbs, fights, smacks the other cats around and has killed
    several birds in her declawed years.  She's not intimidated of any
    cats.  She also "toes" the rugs, bed and furniture, which sets a bad
    example for the cats with claws. :)
    
    Perhaps you could inquire to a groomer about gloves -- certainly those
    people get bit/clawed at a lot -- so they might be able to suggest
    gloves to protect your arms and hands that will still allow you to
    handle the cat easily (again, irrelevant of her having claws or not. 
    There's still those teeth!), at least until Ewok socializes a little.
    
    
    Good luck!
    
    kim

    re: .115
    
    We've been the tranquilizer route with her already, in an earlier
    attempt to remove the hair mats below her tail without incurring bodily
    injury to us.  We got a prescription from the vet, and were told to
    give her 1/2 tablet, and call if that didn't work. It didn't work; the
    vet advised giving a whole tablet, then two tablets when that didn't
    work. 
    
    This is exceedingly frustrating (as I'm sure you can tell!) - even more
    so because she's a very sweet little catperson, who loves to have her
    head rubbed and will purr like anything...but only for a minute or so.
    
    Lynn

    re: .117
    
    Kim,
    
    Thanks for your note! 
    
    As far as we can tell, Ewok does seem to be pretty well
    socialized, though. I think the fact that she was so young, and clearly
    had not been weaned yet, might have something to do with it - she
    "took" to both my fiance and I quite readily, has slept with us from
    the beginning, comes *eagerly* when called (picture Tigger from Winnie
    the Pooh, bouncing into the room, saying "yeah, you want ME, yeah, I'm
    right here, waddaya wanna do, huh? I'm right here" etc.), and generally
    likes to be _near_ both of us and the other two cats (although Noel
    won't play with her...but Noel doesn't play with anyone!).  She and Max
    are constantly wrestling (she's 7 pounds, Max is 17, and she's
    convinced she can win!) and playing tag, taking turns being "it" and
    being chased.  She really has a delightful personality in many ways.
    
    Lynn 

    re .115
    
    Proban is a veterinary insecticide, usually in liquid form, although
    pills are available.  It is administered orally and derives its
    insecticial qualities through poisoning the animal's blood, so that
    when the flea bites, it dies.
    
    When I used to live in Mississippi years ago, most vets prescribed
    Proban to both dogs and cats, although it has not been specifically
    tested or released for use in cats.  In California, most vets will not
    prescribe Proban for cats under any circumstances.
    
    Proban smells, and I'm sure tastes, truly horrible.  To my knowledge,
    Proban has no effect as a sedative.  Ovaban, however, is prescribed for
    its calming effects on kitties, as are Valium and Buspar.  Some may
    recognize the name Ovaban because it is used as birth control pills in
    humans (ova = egg, and ban = outta here).
    
    Carl

    My vet also told me prolong use of Ovaban has many side effects
    and if I remember correctly it was diabetes and/or liver damage.
    (correct me if I'm wrong...my memory isn't what it use to be)
    
    Sandy

    
    Yes, thanks Carl, that's what I meant. It's been a while. 
        A friend of mine had a huge shorthaired male that was on this
        stuff. He was unpredictable also (the cat not the human). As 
        He was very loving and would rub against you for attention and
        purr up a storm as you scratched it's head and then all of a sudden
        wammo !! He'd trun and bite ya ;-)
    
    Shaw

    Ovaban is a hormone.  My vet says "There is a slight chance of side
    effects showing up many years down the road."  These side effects 
    were described to me as (the possibility of) diabetes, adrenal 
    depression or breast cancer.  
    
    Valium and Buspar are tranquilizers.
    
    This information comes recently from my vet as we have just been
    through (actually, it continues) treating Onyx first with Valium
    and now with Ovaban to eliminate (we hope) his spraying behavior.
    
    Jan
    

  Their feet are typically tender for like a day when hey come out of surgery -
if you had all your toes lopped off at the first joint you might be a bit sore
for a day or two as well. If you don't mind spending the $$ to have the cat
undergo two surgeries, I'd imagine it would be appreciated.
  We certainly experience that with some fractious cats (Cuddles may be all
purrs with you, but he'd prefer to rip my arm off :-) that they tend to try and
bite more when declawed. Certainly makes sense - they don't want us working with
'em, and once tehy've figured out the claws don't work, they head off to Plan B.
I don't see a lot of cats that turn into biters, on the other hand, the vast
majority of cats that go to the vets are also easily handled there.

				Trace_no_bites_or_scratches_*all*_last_week :-)

As an alternative to declawing, at the request of a couple of clients we did
tendonectomies - severing of the tendon down at the base of each claw. This is
the only kind of "declawing" one of our doctors did in school (U Penn), but I
haven't seen it done before in the Mass/NH area. Is it prevalent in other areas
of the country? There's a big difference in the animals after surgery - instead
of waking up with painful, curled up feet, they get right up and about without
(in the two I've seen so far) any evidence of pain. Apparently, while there can
be a great deal of pain with a torn tendon, there's none when it's cut clean
through. The operation involves a cut just large enough to snag and clip each
tendon and if you're careful and don't nick a blood vessel, there's no (or
almost no) bleeding. The down side is that the owner *must* regularly clip the
nails as they're completely intact and continue to grow with the possibility of
growing right back around into the foot of they aren't kept after.

						Trace

    
    What are the advantages, (to the cat and owner) of tendonextomy over
    total declawing?  Does the cat lose the ability to retract the claw?
    Does the tendonectomy render the claw useless?  Why do this instead of
    a declaw?
    
    Feline Curious,
    
    Sue

Near as I can tell the big win is zero observable discomfort for the cat.
Our tendonectomy-experienced Dr. can blast through surgery faster than she can
doing a traditional declaw and my bet is that once you know both procedures, the
classic declaw's slower. It's easier for me as during a declaw I have to squeeze
down hard on the cat's leg to eliminate blood flow while the claw/bone is cut at
the 1st joint. 2 or 3 of those in a row can give a great set of hand cramps. No
need to hold off like that when snipping the tendon. The down side for the owner
is the never-ending nail trims, and it's a bummer for the cat if you don't keep
up with them. Don't know what we charge for this compared to a classic declaw.
Guess I could ask.

The claws are left completely intact but are permanently retracted. You can
still push them out as you would with a non-declawed cat to do nail trims.

							Trace

Which makes sense - the pre-op workup's almost identical, the surgical
difficulty isn't that different, and the post-op stay at the hospital is the
same.

						Trace