Conference misery::feline

    Hi.. I have a problem . I would be gratefull if someone with knowledge
    in the area please reply ASAP. I have two cats, one 1.2 yrs. and one
    7 mo. We left them home for the weekend as we have done in the past.
    They had plenty of fresh food and water. When we got home the 7 mo.
    with all it's shots, usually comes running over asking for food.
    Instead he has meowing and walking around like he had never been there.
    He was kinda woobling and very scared of almost everything he saw. He
    really looks like he's haluacinating. His heart is racing and if you
    touch him when he's not expecting it he will jump a mile. He just keeps
    staring a things like he see a goast! The only thing he could have
    gooten into was the conditioned fish water. A fish in a one gallon
    bowl. I myslef have had, or grew up with about 60 cats and have never
    seen this behavior before. I really think he may have some type of
    brain damage that came on suddenly. It's almost spooky. I don't think
    he got into anything else, that we can see, and the other cat is fine.
    We really don't know what to do. He was supposed to get fixed this
    Thurs, but I just don't know what to do now. Should I see if he just 
    missed us and is acting weird for a while? I'll check on him tonight
    and see if there is any change. It's the strangest thing I have ever
    seen in a cat/kitten. Please advise. BR* Bill

    I would get your cat to the vet immediately.  If he was wobly, and
    disoriented, he could have something is wrong.  Don't wait until his
    vet appointment Thursday, take him now.
    
    Jo

    Anything new? Have you gone to the vet, or has he stopped acting
    strange? 
    
    Bonnie

    My kitty BK (stands for bad kitty cause he is so mischufus) is about
    80% beeter now. He comes over and rubs on us, starting now to chase 
    strings and stuff again, but still sometimes looks at things weird
    that don't appear to be there. He gradually got better from the time 
    we got home. We called two Vtes, who aren't really to happy about 
    giving advice over the phone. One said that he probably had a brain
    tumor and would only get worse. One said that something must have
    happened when we were away. That now seems more realistic, but we can't
    figure out what it could have been. Well, he's going to get his manhoud
    removed tomorrow and they will also take a blood test. Seems about 80%
    better now though. Really had us scared. BR*

When/if you find out about your cat please let me know. It sounds just like my 
cat. We have taken him to the vet numerous times, no diagnosis. Sometimes my
cat will take his paw and *very* gently tap at something in the air for a little
while then jump practically straight up, jerk and run off. This isn't an act
of play, its different. Hallucinating describes it exactly.  I have thought that
maybe there is something wrong with his eyesight or sense of smell that is
throwing him off, but this answer isn't consistent as sometimes he's completely 
normal. He's been acting like this for a couple of years now and hasn't gotten
any worse. Other traits that he has is that he is very afraid of new people, 
new surroundings (if I move a chair to the other side of the room, he has to
go through a whole routine of crouching, smelling it, tapping it, jumping, 
jerking, walking in a big circle around it for a while, and avoid it for a
few days), and just looking at him cross is all it takes to discpline 
him. He's also very affectionate and *loves* to be held by the people he knows.
I agree that sometimes its a little spooky, can he see something I can't? He
at least acts like he can.

We've deceided that he just has a "very sensitive disposition" perhaps a 
little neurotic. Anyone know of a kitty therapist? :)

    For those who want to look into it in a different way, there's a topic 
    called "What does my cat see?" or something like that in the DEJAVU
    file. DEJAVU deals w/ unexplained phenomenon, psychic experiences, etc.
    
    The node/filename is BOMBE::DEJAVU
    
    Bonnie

    In a reply to 30.5. you have just described my kitty exactly! He seems
    about 90% normal?/ now, and is right now getting de-??, nuterated, 
    whatever the correct term is. Anyway, we took him outside for the first
    time and he kinda freaked out! So.. this may go on. Does he see
    something we don't? Thats scary. The latest Vet said that he thinks
    something over that weekend must have gave him a real good scare. Well,
    at least it may not be a brain disorder. Well, I'll keep ya's posted. 
    I'm gonna look at that notes file on strange stuff too. Could be
    interesting. See ya. BR*

    One more thing....How 'bout house plants? Do you have any exotic cacti
    or small trees that could be getting munched on?
    
    I can't remember if anyone already asked this.
    
    Bonnie

    BK is right back to normal now. Nope, no plants in the house. Can't
    see anything he could have gotten into besides drinking some fish water
    and eating carpet fresh out of the rug. Oh well.. Big mystery. Thank's
    all! BR*

I'm glad to hear your kitty is ok. It should be interesting to see if this comes
back every now and then. My cat's symptoms do. I guess we'll just have to chalk
it up to one of those things we may never figure out. Oh BTW, no house plants
or other substances, that I know of, that he's getting into.

Laura

    BK is still O.K., but he doess now and then look at things funny, but
    not like before. It seems if there are strange new objects in the house
    he will curiously check them out and very cautiously poke at them. Not 
    all new thing's, just some. Maybe related to bright colors, size,
    shape?? who knows. He kinda does this checking out with a weird
    wobbling to his body. Very strange. Don't think it's something more to
    worry about at this point. Never seen a cat like this! Like I said
    before, I grew up with litteraly 100 or more cats too. Well, gootoGo.
    BR*
    

Glad to hear that BK is doing ok.  My kitty would also go through these routines
with new objects. He would also get very upset if anything in his life changed,
new people, new food, new furniture, etc. Other than that he was very healthy,
with only getting FUI once or twice.

I am so sorry to say, and this is the first time that I am able to write this,
that he passed away last week. He lived with my mom, and after 25 years of her
living in the house she had to move. The escrow closed on this house two
weeks before the escrow would close on the house she was buying. This meant
that she had to stay in a motel for two weeks, with Precious. The hotel
insisted that Precious is given a flea dip and the works. Needless to say,
this was just too much for Precious to handle. When my mom picked up Precious
from the vet and brought him to the motel, he went rapidly downhill. Wouldn't
eat, drink, couldn't walk, his hair came out in clumps. She took him back to
the Vet the next day. They say they have never seen anything like it. He passed
away at the vet. He just couldn't handle these changes, I guess.


Regards,
Laura
 

    I'm really sorry about Precious.
    
    Karen
    

      Poor Precious,
      condolences, Denise and the gang

    So sorry to hear about Precious....
    
    Sandy

         My condolences too ...
    
    					- Andrea

    I'm so sorry too and know how you feel. I have lost so many pets and get
    so emotionally attached that I feel afraid of getting another just
    because of the pain of loosing them. But, we all have to realize that
    this will happen. It really hurts when your with them for so long and 
    you know thier time is coming. I try to keep in my heart all the good 
    feelings and look back on all the good times we enjoy with our pets. 
    
    I know it's hard and heart felt now, but try and be happy that 
    you had this time, and look ahead as well as back, and smile. BR*

Thank you all for your support. It really has meant alot to me!! This little
kitty brought me so much joy in the time we had together. My fiance wonders
why, with so much pain in life to go through, why would I want to get emotionaly
attached to an animal? He has never experienced the joy one can bring to your
life. I am happy to say that we just moved into a new apartment that allows
cats and we will be getting a little one after our wedding! :)  :)

Thanks again,
Laura

    Laura, 

    We were married 4 months ago and the first picture in the wedding album
    is of the bride, groom and a special Persian cat who has since died. 
    How anyone could not be emotionally attached to an animal is beyond
    me....  

    Don't worry, there is still hope for your finance!  My husband told me
    we could only keep one of the two cats we rescued but alas, he has a
    soft spot in his heart and we are keeping them both.  They aren't
    replacements for the cat we lost but they sure do help ease the pain.
    Maybe you could suggest to a friend that you'd like two kittens as a
    wedding present.  I keep telling a friend that she's going to get two
    kittens from us as her wedding gift.  She's all for the idea!  You
    gotta get two though.  They are so much more fun than one.  :^) :^)

Hi!

Well I'm hoping that my wedding present from my fiance will be a kitty! Believe
me, I've hinted at it enough. He knows of the love I have for cats. One day
while at his parents there was a neighbor's cat outside that Brian has known for
years. This cat won't let people *near* him. He dared me to see if I could get
the cat to come to me and bet that I couldn't. Well, the cat came, got a
petting and rolled around on the ground for awhile soaking it up. I think that
this was Brian's big realization that there's no fighting it, if he's going to 
be with me, he's going to be with cats.  In all seriousness, he doesn't
dislike cats, he was just never exposed to the fun and joy of one. Moderators,
I apologize for getting off this topic's subject.

Laura

    Laura,
    
    I think you should extract a few of these notes and just leave them
    casually strewn about the coffee table or somewhere that your fiance
    will run across them.  Perhaps he'll surprise you?
    
    Always the devious one,
    
    Nancy

    
    I really hope that someone can help me with this...Latetely when I
    change Sogourney's cat box it is completely SOAKED with urine.  I
    usually clean his box every other day....and I can't see that it would
    be okay for a cat to pee that much in the course of a day.
    
       When I brought him to the Vet he dismissed it and said that I was
    giving him to much water!!!!!!  Also I have had him since he was a
    kitten and when I first got him I took him in for his shots and to get
    fixed....they gave him the shots and said he was to young to be
    neutered and to wait until he developed more.   I have had him for
    almost 2 years and he still isn't ready to be neutered.....
    
    Is my cat (the love of my life) just strange or is something really
    wrong????
    
                                                       jazzzzzzzzz

    
    
    	sounds like you need a new vet to me!
    

    I would like to suggest to try get another opinion from a different
    vet.  I have never heard of a 2 year old cat that was not mature
    enough to be neutered....this does not make sense to me...but
    I'm not a vet.  In my experience most cats can be fixed by 7 months.....
    
    Also one symptom of kidney discease (and other...I'm sure) is drinking
    water excesseivley.   My kitty Van Gogh...drinks alot and pees alot
    but he had 80% of his colon removed and the Dr says he will always
    drink more then he use to.
    
    I'd say....try another vet!!
    Sandy

    Yes, I'd go to another vet.  If you can post your town name here,
    perhaps someone can suggest a good vet.  I suggest this because the
    business of not being ready to be neutered at 2 years rings somewhat
    false.  It also sounds like you aren't getting quality info from your
    vet and that's very important.
    
    As to the box being soaked, yes, excessing drinking can be a symptom of
    something serious, so I'd have your puss checked by a good vet.  But, I
    wouldn't panic until you know what's going on -- if I change the cat
    box right after my Sweetie has used it, it's soaked.  Your cat might
    have changed the times he's using the box, or you might be changing the
    box at different times, and this is just coincidence.  A vet trip will
    tell what's what.
    
    Please let us know what happens.
    

    
    I live in Colorado Springs and would appreciate a recomendation.
    
                   Thanx for the imput!!!!!!!  My poor little kitty
    thanx you too!!!
    
                                                  jazzzzz

    If there isn't another Colorado Springs Feliner around, another way to
    get a recommendation is to call a local animal welfare group (not the
    local animal control people who round up strays and euthanize them) and
    ask someone there who they'd recommend.
    

    This was in the Atlanta paper last week. It credits the Washington Post. 
    I'm reprinting without permission. If this is in the wrong place, 
    feel free to move it
	   *    *    *   *   *    *    *    *   *    *    *    *   *
    
     		Older Cats Falling Prey to Mysterious Disorder

	For reasons no one can explain, thousands of America's cats are 
	coming down with a once rare glandular disorder.

	The disease, a tumor of the thyroid, affects primarily middle-aged 
	cats. Exceedingly rare in humans and unknown in other species, it 
	results in the uncontrolled production of thyroid hormones, leading 
	to severe weight loss, vomiting, diarrhea, skin disease, abnormal 
	breathing and cardiac problems.

	Veterinarians say that the outbreak defies explanation.  All that is 
	clear is that the disease appears to strike without regard to breed 
	or sex.  And while it was unknown as recently as the 1970s, it is 
	now nearing epidemic status among the nation's geriatric cat 
	population. "Basically, I feel that any cat, if it lives long enough, 
	will get the disease," said Jan Turrel, a San Francisco veterinarian.

	Researchers are puzzling through seemingly contradictory pieces of 
	evidence. In Japan, for example, where cats eat fish, the disease 
	is virtually unknown. Ditto for isolated South Africa. But why is 
	it well-known in New Zealand and not in neighboring Australia? Why 
	is it big in Britain but not in Europe?

	Theories include:

	o Hyperthyroidism is a disease of old cats, and cats are getting 
	  older because of better medical care today.

	o Cats have caught a bizarre virus.

	o Cats are being poisoned by some toxin in the environment. In 
	  theory, it is entirely possible that some kind of toxin could 
	  be the cause of the thyroid tumors.  The problem is that 
 	  hyperthyroidism isn't seen much among farm cats, who are the 
	  most exposed to pesticides.  It's a disease of house cats.

	o Cats are eating bad cat food. Diet has been linked with thyroid 
	  dysfunction.  Dr. Turrel points out one additional fact: Americans 
	  began moving toward feeding their cats commercial cat food 
	  exclusively in the late '60s and early '70s, moving cats away 
	  from the more varied diet of table scraps, mice and birds they had 
	  enjoyed previously.  The cat food companies say this theory is 
	  ridiculous.
 
    

         Another possibility if your kitty is also losing weight as well as
    drinking a lot and peeing a lot is diabetes.  Although it sounds
    terrible, it really isn't that bad.  My diabetic cat, Loki, is living a
    happy, healthy life (he just had his shots and physical last week and
    is doing great); you wouldn't even know he had diabetes to look at him.
    
         I also recommend another vet, although I live in MA so
    unfortunately I can't recommend one.
    
    					- Andrea

    My uninformed guess would be that this thyroid thing would be
    surgically treatable.....
    

this article also appeared in the S.J. Merc and was more extensive...
it stated that many vets feel that this is a geriatric issue - cats are
living much longer now, and we are not doing something right for these
older cats.  There is also a strong possibility that the animals are
showing an accumulative reaction to pollution in their environment. 

At any rate, they are researching this issue - and, being it is thyroid,
it is probably, in some manner, associated with diet.  It is something
to watch for in your cat from approx. 4 years on up in age.

jazzzzzzz...

I live in the Rockrimmon area (near CXO) and use Dr. Stanton Brase (Bra-see)
at the Rockrimmon Veterinary Clinic at Rockrimmon Blvd and Delmonico Dr.  I
am very well pleased and have used him as vet to my kitties for six years.
His number is 599-4438 (tell 'em Pat Ryer sent you, they've seen a lot of
me lately :-().  Or, if you want to call me (DTN 592-5247) I can give you
more information on him.

-Patrick

    mary jo hoepner is in the greater colorado springs area and pops in and
    out of this conference.  you might want to send her mail regarding a
    vet recommendation.  she's got all kinds of animals and could probably
    assist you with finding another one.  mary jo, you still out there?

    
    
    I sure am. 
    
    I use Jim Friedly (Countryside Vet Clinic)  495-4717 (East of Black
    Forest Road on Woodmen).  He is great with both my horses and my 
    cats.  (And also is experienced with treating Greyhounds...)  
    
    The vets at North Academy Vet (near Vickers and Academy) also have
    a good reputation.
    
    Mary Jo

    Mods please move this if it's in the wrong place.
    
    For everyone that remembers KC Fahel and her husband Leigh I have an
    update.  Leigh called me about 2:30 frantic over Alexandra their 1 year
    old kitten.  She was vomiting yellow liquid and was extremely listless.
    I referred him to my vet at the Ferris Road Animal Hospital.  Leigh
    came up to my office to borrow my car to bring Alex there.
    
    As I'm writing this we are waiting for the Feluk test to come back. 
    Her white blood count is down and she is extremely dehydrated (she'd
    been eating and drinking just fine right up until this morning).  She
    hasn't been vaccinated against Feluk.
    
    Leigh and KC are quite upset and worried.  If she tests positive they
    aren't sure what they will do.  Kitty thoughts and prayers are needed.
    
    I'll post an update as soon as I hear something.
    
    Kim

    Kim,
    
    There are strains of a pretty nasty URI floating around kitty land. 
    Here's hoping that's all it is and antibiotics will help.
    
    Did you mean to write the white cell count is UP, not down?  High white
    cell count means the immune system is trying to fight off infection.
    

    Hi,
    
    Leigh said her white blood count was down.  The test came back
    negative, they still don't know what is wrong with her.  They gave her
    fluids so she now has bumps under her fur on her sides and they are
    giving her an antibiotic and letting Leigh take her home.
    
    Leigh was almost in tears when he called.  Tiki tested positive for
    Feluk at 1 year old.  He lived to be 9 but it hasn't even been a full
    year since his death.  Another 2 weeks is the anniversary of his death. 
    I don't think KC or Leigh could have handled a positive reading.
    
    Hopefully she'll be her old self soon!
    
    Kim
    
    P.S.  I'm going home and hugging all 9 of my furballs!

    Could she have swallowed something?
    

    Echo .39's question - her symptoms (and the suddeness) make it sound 
    like she might have swallowed something (string, rubber band, etc.)
    Based on experience I've had with two cats who did swallow things they
    weren't supposed, this sounds possible.
    
    Did the vet do an xray?
    
    Fingers crossed for the little one....
    
    Sue B. + Smokey, Spike and Trouble

    Please tell KC and Leigh they are in my thoughts...and all my
    kitty prayers go to Alex.
    
    Please keep us posted.....
    
    Sandy

    Well so far the vet can't find anything.  Alex was given fluids so she
    had "love handles" yesterday and last night they still weren't going
    down.  She's still not eating and very very lethargic.  I was there
    last night and she sighed a couple of times and rolled over once or
    twice but that's it.  She's staying under the bed behind the unicorn
    where it's cool and dark.  She even turned her nose up at Jello (her
    favorite human food).  KC and Leigh say thanks for the prayers, they
    are very worried about her.  
    
    They are having a rough time with this, September 3rd marks the one
    year anniversary of Tiki II's death.  They are trying to deal with the
    anniversay and Alex at the same time.  Both of them were in tears
    yesterday.
    
    As we find out more I'll let you know.  I've told them my car is
    available if they need again to take Alex to the vet.  sigh I wish I
    could do more to help.
    
    Kim

    Did the vet do an x-ray to check for a swallowed object?  (Would that
    show string?)
    

    My Charlie had something like that -- turned out to be an intestinal
    blockage. His fur irritates his intestines, causing them to shut down.
    There's a technical term for this, but can't think of it at this time.
    He has to take cortisone when he starts throwing up.
    
    Cheryl

Ok, I know this might sound a little paranoid, but I've never seen it before.

I have a female kitty, about 5 months old, not yet neutered. She's a siamese
mix and of average weight. Well, her belly hangs down and is *real* floppy.
She's an indoor kitty so I know she not pregnant. I've always had male cats
and they never had this. 

Is this normal?

Laura

    laura, does your cat get any kind of exercise at all?  i was always
    under the impression that the beer belly look was predominant in male
    cats.  chubs's idea of exercise was running to the food bowl to see if
    the goods inside had been replenished.  we helped him get rid of (part
    of) his excess belly by provoking him to workout more often.  what are
    you feeding the kitty?

    Luara,
    
    I have 4 siamese.  Skeeter was born with a flabby belly (actually she
    was born fat, the belly has increased with age :-).  She is almost
    5 years old now and her weight has remained stable.  She has never had
    a litter, this is just the way she is.  Her brother, Alex, from the
    same litter and Katie, from the litter right before her are nice and
    trim with no flabby belly.  She runs and plays is always the first to
    bring me her toys to be played with.  Nothing I have ever done has
    gotten rid of that belly and her being on the obese side.  It could
    just be one of those traits that show up from time to time.  Oh, and
    now she isn't an overeater.  When she was a kitten, she was *desperate*
    for food, from the day she was born.  She was always the first on the
    tit and the one to cry loudest for it.  Maybe because she was competing
    with *six* brothers.  Now, she eats less than Cleo, who is convinced
    that each meal is the Last Supper.  :-)
    
    Karen

Hi!

Thanks for replying! I feel better now. This little girl gets so-o-o-o much
exercise. She exercises on the screen door, jumping jacks on the bed at 3:00
in the morning, and would be a strong team player if the Olympics would allow 
kitty cats in the gymnastics ring.(She does train however everyday for the
slim chance that one day she will be invited to participate in the game).
I feed her dry Science Diet for kittens. Other then that, she's an only kitty
(wish I could have more, but right now this can't happen). So I try to make
up with lots of attention and a whole toy box of toys.

I guess this is just one of those things that make her special.

Thanks again,
Laura

    I had trouble getting into the system.
    
    Last night at 10:00 Leigh came to my house to get me so I could go see
    Alex.  She was passing tea colored urine.  We rushed her to the vet. 
    The tea colored urine wasn't urine it was stool.  We admitted her to
    the hospital last night.  I stayed with KC and Leigh at their house
    until about 1:30.
    
    At 1:00 the vet called.  Alexandra Lynn Fahel passed away last night a
    little before 1:00, the vet said he checked her turned away heard her
    cry out and she was gone.
    
    KC and Leigh are hysterical.  Tiki's death anniversary is next
    Thursday, Alex just celebrated her first birthday last month.  The vet
    said she died from Distemper.
    
    Today is my last day here at Digital.  I'm leaving the company for
    good.  So if you respond to this note after today I'll have to ask
    sommeone else to monitor the replies.
    
    Thanks for the support.  KC and Leigh need it now more than ever.
    
    Kim

    Please tell them how sorry I am.  Alex knew that she was loved;  I hope
    they can take comfort from that.
    
    Karen

    Kim, please convey my sorrow and sympathy to KC and Leigh.  My heart
    aches for them.
    
    Kim, best of luck to you, we'll miss you in Feline.
    
    Steffi + 4

    KC and Leigh...my heart is with you!   From all the stories you
    have shared there is no doubt in my mind that Alex was deeply
    loved and had a wonderful family.   Your hearts must be broken...
    but keep all those prescious memories close to your heart.
    
    My love, thoughts and prayer are with you!
    
    Sandy
    
    Kim....best of luck to you!

    
    Since KC and Leigh lost their connections to the feline file (Kim)...
    they called me last night and asked that I send an update to
    you all.
    
    They are both really still depressed over their loss of Alex.  Alex
    did die of distemper. When they adopted Alex..they asked the people 
    four times if Alex had his shots...and the answer was yes.   But 
    obviously the person thought if they had told the truth...KC and 
    Leigh might not have taken the cat.  The lesson learned is when
    adopting ask to see the medical records, call the vet yourself...or bring
    the cat to your own vet for a series of shots.    They are truly
    heartbroken....especially since the anniversary death of Tiki II is 
    next month.
    
    Their other two cats (Tina and Rico) are doing fine... Tina has made
    a few trips to the vet because she did have a case of diahrea...but
    that was caused from the reaction to her first set of shots.   They
    feared distemper as well...because they know how contagious this can
    be....but the vet has comforted them and said that was not the case
    with Tina.    
    
    The good news is they spent Sunday afternoon with Nancy DC....and
    within a few weeks they will be bringing home a new straight eared 
    Scottish Fold.  They spent the afternoon playing with all the kitties
    and found one that LOVES Leigh...and her name is Putiputs Gabrial.
    I forgot the full name...but the short name will be Gabri!!   
    
    They plan on calling me on occasion to give me updates....so if anyone
    wants to relay a message to them...please let me know off line.   I
    have never actually met them...but hopefully soon we will.  They want
    to come visit Van Gogh and my babies and take videos!!  When Van Gogh
    was so sick last year...KC and Leigh founded the Grand Van Gogh
    Fan Club....the last picture I sent them was when VG had been shaved...
    so their dying to see the big boy now!!
    
    Please give them you thoughts and prayers.  You can just imagine the
    pain they are feeling after losing two of their babies in one year.
    
    Sandy
    

    They must be just devastated.  Now I know why my vet "re"vaccinates newly
    adopted kitties, regardless of what the previous home (people, shelter)
    has told the adopters.  I'm glad to hear they are getting a new cat.
    

    My vet also recommends vaccinating a new kitten anyway, just in case.
    Says it won't hurt them to have another if they've already had one.
    
    Jan

    A co-worker of mine has asked that I post a note in this file.
    
    She has a cat - healthy - and her daughter brought another cat
    home for the summer which has been tested positive for feline
    leukemia.  Her daughter couldn't bring the cat back to college
    with her and Lynne is taking care of him.
    
    She has brought him to the vets, to be checked over, and was
    given a life-span of approximately 3 years.  The reason she
    asked to have me enter this note is because she doesn't 
    have a lot of time to search in here for notes on the subject.
    
    Her request is that perhaps some noters could write to her,
    offline, with regards to the care of both cats (i.e.,
    sharing litter, food, etc.) and some support.
    
    Please send her mail at IAMOK::Lockhart - she thanks you 
    in advance.
    
    Her name is Lynne Lockhart.
    
    Thank you.
    
    

    Hi.  I just realized that I only gave Lynne's VAX mail node.
    Anyone wishing to contact her on Allin1 - it's:
    
    Lynne Lockhart @MSO.
    
    Thanks again!
    
    

    Hey is that Marilyn Anderson by any chance?!
    If so call me at dtn:226-5070

    Re: vaccinations and disease
    
    Just wanted to remind everyone that a vaccination against a disease is
    not a 100% guarantee that a cat won't get that disease.  How well a cat
    is protected by a vaccine depends as much on the cat's immune system as
    it does on who gave the vaccine, when, and if it was properly given. 
    Even cats that are properly vaccinated can be susceptible to disease if
    their immune systems are unable to produce immunity from the vaccine.
    This is particularly true in cats that are immune compromised for some
    reason (i.e. by FeLV, FIV, FIP, or by concurrent illness by some other
    less serious ailment).
    
    I am very sorry to hear about the passing of Alex.  I am sure that KC
    and Leigh are devastated.  Please pass on my sympathy to them.
    
    Jo
         

    Re:  .56
    
    ...Lynne had to have Jamie put down last night.  He was terribly
    ill all week-end and - in discussing his health with the vet
    and her daughter - the decision was made to relinquish his
    pain.
    
    She is quite sad and doesn't want to talk about it and I am
    respecting her wishes.  If anyone would like to write her 
    off-line (I keep telling her about the love and support in
    this notesfile) I am sure she will treasure the kind words
    that you send to her.  
    
    She is at:    IAMOK::LOCKHART or Lynne Lockhart @MSO
    
    Thanks,
    
    Marilyn
    

    Marilyn, what was it that poor Jamie had?  Sometimes it might be best
    to give a few days.  I know when I even read some of the stories here
    or think about animals I have loved, it gets to be too much.  Sometimes
    I can't even finish a note.  Yesterday I almost let out with a big
    sound (like when you are crying and holding it in)when I read about
    Ebony.  The guys would think I've gone looney if they could see what I
    was doing!
    Karen

    Jamie was diagnosed with Feline Leukemia - however I don't know the
    particulars - as Lynne is so upset.  I don't want to invade her
    privacy.  She broke down yesterday - when she found out how sick
    he was - and again when the vet called to suggest putting him down.
    
    From what I gather - he had been an outdoor cat.  After he was
    diagnosed (this summer) the vet said he had to stay indoors (for
    fear of infecting other cats - and for his own safety) but he
    had never been altered.  He howled incessently and Lynne felt
    he should be neutered.  When she called a local vet they didn't
    think he was a good risk...however, she got a second and third
    opinion and they seemed to feel he would make it o.k.!  The
    vet who decided to do it (and this is where I may not have my
    facts straight) and somehow Jamie was put on Amoxicillan.  Within
    two days he was violently ill (over the week-end) and when she
    brought him in he was in real bad shape.
    
    I told her that I posted this addendum (to .56) hoping she wouldn't
    be offended that I told everyone of Jamie's death.  She has
    been looking in her mail for any notes but none so far!  I would
    have like to post a separate note - but when I did - the moderator's
    (understandably so) moved it to this topic.  
    
    She is very busy (supporting a lot of people) and is unable to
    read the notesfile...which is why I hoped some people would read
    this note and send her some supportive mail.  Seeing as she went
    in to see if there was any - tells me she would like to hear 
    from someone.
    
    Thanks for responding.  She is better this afternoon...I stop in
    her office to say "hi" but don't want to make her feel as though
    she has to talk about it.  Just want to be there in case she
    needs me.
    
    Thanks for asking!
    
    M
    

    Marilyn, don't know what I'll say, but I will at least tell her I am
    sorry.  I will think of something!
    karen

    ....thanks, Karen!  
    
    I am going to ask Lynne if she would mind that I add Jamie's name
    to the Silver Lining Memorial Fund.
    
    M
    

    Jamie already has been added.  

    
    Hi,
    
    I didn't see another discussion of this anywhere; if there is a more
    appropriate place for this note, mods, please feel free to move.
    
    A friend of a friend of mine (really) took in a stray cat recently.
    She's a very emotional cat lover.  Anyway, she's taken the stray to
    the vet and its testing positive for feline leukemia.  Since she
    already has a number of cats, she must get rid of the stray as
    apparently FL is contagious among kitties.
    
    So my friend is thinking of adopting the stray.  There is already a
    dog in the house, but according to the vet, FL cannot be transmitted to
    dogs.  The only concern for my friend is the potential cost of caring
    for the cat.  Can anybody tell me what the progression of FL is and how
    much vet care it would need?  My friend would like to make a nice home
    for this kitty, but can't justify the expense if it could be high.
    
    Thanks a lot for any comments,
    Terri

    well, maybe I can help here. My daughter just had to put down her kitty
    that had been FELV positive her entire life. The vet bills were really
    no more than my cats. She got an occasional URI, and they watched her
    closely, but the actual costs didn't really add up to more than any
    other cat as far as I could see.
    
    Of course Liz could have been the exception rather than the rule, but
    she was a real pampered furface, I know that!
    
    Hope this helps.
    
    Yonee

    BTW, Liz was 8 yeaes old when she succumbed to the disease. I think it
    was stress from another cat being in the house for a while that kicked
    in for the final time. She lived a long happy life with this disease.
    
     Yonee

    As long as the cat is asymptomatic (not showing any signs of FeLV) the
    cost will be very low, just the basic annual shots, exams, etc.  But,
    when and if the cat does start showing sypmtoms, the costs would depend
    on the type of problem that comes up, and how far she wants to go with
    the treatment.  There is no way any of us could predict what it could
    cost.  Feline Leukemia is nearly always fatal once a cat begins showing 
    symptoms, so if you friend could handle the knowledge that she may have 
    to make a tough decision at some point, she would probably have many 
    years of a wonderful loving pet.
    
    Things that she has to keep in mind:  if she takes this cat, he should
    never be allowed outdoors.  She should be diligent in her efforts to
    prevent her kitty from infecting other kitties.  Also, if she takes
    this cat, she may want to refrain from bringing in any other cats while
    she has him.  FeLV is highly contagious to other cats, and even though
    there are vaccines available to help protect a cat from it, they are
    not 100% effective.  It isn't a good idea to stress a cat that has FeLV
    either, since the stress can make them revert to active infection. 
    Some cats that test positive for the disease are latent carriers, and
    do not ever get the disease themselves.  Stressing a cat that is a
    latent carrier could mean that cat coming down with symptoms.
    
    The dog would not be at any risk of contracting the Feline Leukemia as
    it is a species specific disease of cats.
    
    Jo
                                         

    
    Our Feluk Positive cats at our shelter do not normally cost 
    anymore then an ordinary cat.   We do feed them premium food..
    try to keep stress at a minimum...and just keep a watchful eye
    for signs of sickness.  
    
    We have many cats that have been there for years (6+years) and
    still show no signs of sickness and appear very happy and healthy.
    
    I think what your friend is considering doing...is wonderful!!  If
    she ever wants another positive Feluk kitty for company....just
    let me know!!!!  As long as these kitties aren't showing signs
    of sickness...I think they truly deserve to be adopted and spoiled
    like all other cats.  But do take Jo's advise and make this kitty
    and indoor cat and take precautious of spreading it further!!
    
    Sandy   

    
    
    Thanks for all your replies...it looks like she's going to adopt the
    kitty!!  Basically she's decided that she just must come to terms with
    the fact that at some point it could be painful, but in the meantime
    she'll have a happy friend.
    
    I (she) appreciates all your advice!!  (and yes, the kitty will be
    kept indoors...)
    
    Terri

    She made a great decision...and someday it will be painful but
    she will feel wonderful knowing she showed him love and happiness
    and she will cherish those special times with him!!
    
    We all face those painful moments....but we just have no idea
    when they will come!  
    
    Sandy

    Could someone please describe the symtoms of lukemia?  My cat suddenly
    became ill a couple of weeks ago and has had a drastic weight lose,
    lose of fur and he is not eating.  He is a house cat and has never been
    outside.  He has gone from weighing about 35 pounds to about 15 pounds.
    He hasen't been eating for a couple of weeks.  He has been crying at
    night for the last month or so which he never did before.  The vet said
    that he is very dihydrated and at first he thought that he had a liver
    problem, then he felt it was a bladder problem.  Finally he kept Chubs
    and has run some tests on him.  He won't get the results back until
    Friday and if it is Lukemia then he will have to be put down.
    
    I have had Chubs since he was born, I also had his mother.  For the
    past 4 years he has been a member of our family and will be sorely
    missed.
    
    PLEASE, I need info about lukemia symtoms.
    
    Thanks in advance.
    
    Pat
    MAIL  -  STOWOA::FRANCOEUR
    DTN   -  276-9221
    

    Chubs certainly sounds like a very ill puss (weight loss etc.) but I
    don't recall losing fur as one of the symptoms of leukemia. My mother
    had a couple of her show cats go to leukemia a few years ago, they were
    related & the vet suspected a genetic link. They really just wasted
    away until the vet recommended they were put down. Other cats from the
    same litter did not get it however.
    
    Hope Friday comes quickly for you & Chubs,
    
    Andy

    
    Thanks Andy, I hope so too.  I hope that it is good news.  My girl
    friend said that it sounds more like heart worm but the vet said that
    its very rare in cats.  I don't know.
    
    Thanks,
    
    Pat

    I think you did the right thing by having all the tests done....
    because atleast you'll know what your dealing with!!   Many of
    the symptoms for many of the kitty diseases are so similar that
    only a true test will tell.
    
    I work for a shelter that isolates Feluk Positive kitties....and
    99% of those cats appear to be very healthy...it's only when the
    Feluk takes over do they start getting sick.  But again the symptoms
    are very similar to liver problem, kidney problems etc.  But I can
    say a loss of hair is not one of the symptoms I have seen.
    
    I have seen loss of hair in cats with flea alergies, skin problems,
    tapeworms, and thyroid problems...or even from stress.   But since
    she lost alot of weight and isn't eating...I probably isn't
    one of those issues.
    
    Hopefully when the tests come back....you will be blessed with good
    news and they will determine it is treatable!!  Please keep us
    posted...and you'll be in my thoughts and prayers.
    
    Sandy
    

    It could be a thyroid condition.  Before my cat was diagnosed with a
    thyroid condition she lost a LOT of weight and also blew her coat.  Ask
    your vet if he is testing for a thryoid problem as well.  Thyroid
    problems are very easily treated with medication (pills) and/or diet.  
    If it is leukemia you don't necessarily have to put the cat down.  Mine
    is a living example!  She was diagnosed with leukemia 12 years ago and
    is still alive, eating, purring up a storm, and getting into trouble!
    
    Hope all turns out for the best though!
    
    

    Anytime a cat losses more than half it's body weight, I would think
    that hair loss could occur.  The body must be starved for nutrition,
    and the hair and nails will suffer from the loss of protein and
    nutrients.
    
    If you cat was 35 pounds, and suddenly lost 20 *pounds*, he is a prime
    candidate for Hepatic Lipidosis (Fatty Liver Disease).  This disease
    can be a secondary problem to whatever caused him to go off his food in
    the first place.  I am hoping that since your vet is sending the Felv
    test through a lab, that he also sent in a blood sample for a general 
    health profile too.  That would tell you what condition your cat's
    liver is in, and whether HL is a consideration in your cat's case.
    
    Hang in there and let us know the minute you hear the test results.
    
    Jo

I believe the numbers are that 10% of the cat population will contract Felv and
of that number 80% will die within three years.  My Felv positive cat lasted
almost that long and was in good shape until her last week. After the diagnosis
we kept her indoors to eliminate the concern of passing it to other cats.  With
that dramatic a weight loss one would think there are other things going on that
could affect longectivity, but in at least some cases they get along just fine
for quite a while.

						Trace

    I want to thank everyone for their prayers, we are not out of the woods
    yet but the Lukemia test came back negative.  Now they are going to do
    a complete blood workup (which they should have done already) including
    a Thyroid test.  I have Chubs back home and he seems to be getting
    stronger.  The one problem we are having is that he doesn't like to be
    combed and he has a lot of loose fur and he has been swallowing some
    when he washes himself.  Saturday my husband and I got about half a bag
    of loose fur off of him but we got scratched quite a bit.  Is there a
    way that we can get this off of him without him becoming so agitated?
    
    Again thanks for all the kind words and prayers and I will keep you
    posted.
    
    Thanks,
    
    Pat

    Might grooming gloves work for you and Chubs?  Also maybe a soft rubber
    brush rather than a hard comb would feel better to him.  Good luck.  I
    hope he continues to get stronger and that whatever is wrong with him
    is easily treated.
    
    Steffi
    
    

    I used to put a box full of Bonkers cat treats in front of Bailey
    when I groomed her.  She hated grooming.  The Bonkers served to
    distract her while I combed (she loved Bonkers).  I'd peridically
    give her a treat while I combed her.  After a while she began to
    purr and actually enjoy her grooming sessions.
    
    Worth a try for Chubs.
    
    Jan

    If you wet your hands & dry them off a little so they're damp and then
    stroke puss, it can take loose hairs off without any fuss (as long as
    your cat can put up with being stroked of course).
    
    Andy
    

    Well, we finally know what is wrong with Chubs and it was originally
    diagnost in this note.  He has a thyroid problem for which we started
    him on medication last night and hopefully in a week to 10 days we
    should see some improvement.  I'll keep everyone posted.
    
    Thanks for all your prayers and concerns.
    
    Pat

    My sisters 15 year old kitty (mitzi) has been on thyroid pills
    for just about one year...and she is doing GREAT!!
    
    Glad to hear it is something very treatable!!!!  Keep us posted.
    
    Sandy

    Chubs has been on the Thyroid medication for almost a week now and he
    still isn't eating.  Does anyone know how long it usually takes for the
    medication to start working?
    
    Thanks,
    
    Pat

    Have you spoken to your vet about Chubs lack of eating?  Is the vet
    concerned.  A last resort measure to get Misha to start eating
    recently, was a small dosage of Valium daily.  In cats, about 30 minutes
    after they ingest the valium, they are ravenously hungry for about 10-15
    minutes. (small window of opportunity ;D)  He was a bit wobbly
    afterwards and slept a lot, but he was on it for 2 weeks and gained 1/2
    pound and we were thrilled.  I don't know how the valium would mix with
    the thyroid med, but you might want to ask your vet about this.
    
    Steffi 

    The vet told me that it takes about a week to 10 days for us to notice
    a change but we are going on vacation July 10 and want to take him with
    us.  We just want him well.  The vet wants to give him a couple of mega
    doses of Vitamin B12.  I am giving 100 mg.  of b12 daily at home but he
    said that by injection it is going directly into his blood stream.  I
    just hate to take him out anymore because he goes nuts as soon as you
    head for the door because he knows where he is going.
    
    Thanks,
    
    Pat

    Well Chubs is finally eating again.  He is now on Thyroid, an appetite
    enhancer and 100mg of B12.  I stopped giving the Nutri-cal 3 days ago
    and he has been eating ever since.  I think that his poor stomach had
    strunk so much from all the weight loss that the Nutri-cal was filling
    him up so that he wasn't hungry and wasn't eating his regular food.  We
    will be taking him to the beach with us rather than boarding him at the
    Vets', I think he will be alot happier with us then there.  After he
    gets stronger I am going to have him groomed to remove the clumps of
    dead fur thats knotted up.  I don't want to put him through that right
    now.
    
    Thanks all for your concern and prayers.  I will keep you posted on his
    progress.  I really believe he is on the road to recovery (thank God),
    I was starting to think about putting him down because he was dying
    right before my eyes.
    
    Thanks again,
    
    Pat

    Just a brief note to let you all know that Chubs did GREAT on vacation.
    He is well on the road to recovery.  Of course he hids on me every
    morning because he knows that it's pill time but he takes them like a
    good boy.
    
    He is slowly putting some meat on his bones and is getting frisky and
    playing with his toys which he hasn't done for quite some time.
    
    Thanks again all.
    
    Pat

    Well, Chubs is back in the hospital.  I have been giving him cat
    laxotive but he still got bound up with fur balls.  The poor thing
    hadn't gone since last Wednesday.  My daughter noticed his eyes looked
    funny on Saturday but didn't say anything until Sunday (vet closed) so
    I took him first thing yesterday morning.  I guess their going to keep
    him for a couple of days and then I have to give him a syringe of
    mineral oil every day along with his other medication.
    
    This poor guy has had a pretty tough few months, I hope this is the end
    of it.  I have been feeding him Alpo dry gormet cat food (according to
    the bag no ash content) because he won't eat moist canned cat food.
    
    Can anyone suggest something else that he might eat.  I've tried
    sardines but forget it.
    
    Thanks,
    
    Pat

    For those of you who have been keeping tabs on how Chubs is doing,
    unfortunately he is gone.  I called the vet yesterday and he had taken
    a turn for the worst.  The poison was affecting other organs in his
    body and he was in a lot of pain and the vet did not forsee any
    possible improvement.  The kindest thing that I could do for him would
    be to have him put down.  So I had to let him go.  Needless to say I
    was devastated but I couldn't let him suffer any more.  I loved him
    like my own child and he will be in my heart always.
    
    Thanks to everyone for caring.
    
    Pat

    Oh how sad.  Poor Chubs and poor you!  At least you did everything
    you could for him.  These decisions are never easy, but sometimes
    are the right thing.
    Condolences, Denise and the gang.

    Pat..please accept our sincere sympathy at this time.  Those
    decisions are never easy.....but Chubs will be forever grateful
    that he no longer has to suffer.
    
    Chubs will meet many of our furry friends in kitty heaven and start
    a new life with only happiness. My beloved Tamba and Sass will show
    him the way to the litterbox in the sky.
    
    Sandy  (Poco, Barkley, Angus, Chloe, Dewey, Abby, Bogie, 
            Van Gogh, J.C., Moses, Mr Meow)

    Pat, I'm really sorry to hear about your beloved Chubs.
    
    Take care,
    Pam, Mocha, Sneakers and Pretzel

    
    Pat, so sorry to hear the news. I had been following Chubs' reports.
         My deepest sympathies.
    
    Shaw  Jasper, Kramer & Toastie

    Due to the economic rollercoaster of late (I am a consultant, so depend
    on the economy being either good or bad, wishy-washy is just
    terrible!), I have taken 15 months to get my cats annual checkup. My
    vet recommends doing another FeLV vacination due to the length of time
    from the previous shots (15 months rather than 12). Ie., 'starting
    over' as it were and revacinating the critters in 12 weeks. He admits
    he is rather vague about the period of time it is ok to just give a
    single booster, but he recommends playing it safe and revacinating. 
    Does anyone have any access to a 'solid' recomendation on this? I would
    not normally worry, but the dollars add up to do this for the whole
    crew. Any way, I'll get it done if doubt remains, but as my vet was
    unclear, I thought I'd tap the FELINER resource and see if any one knew
    a more definitive answer. I'd like traces to credible sources to pass
    on to him as well, if any one has some.
    
    Thanks,
    Tjp & crew (Cheri, Fluff, Nonsense, Pause, Sinbad (AWOL!), and in
                memorium Pumpkin)

	My vet reccomends once a year, but will go to 18 months at a push, if
	they have been done regularly up till then.
	(I found this out when, somehow or other, I forgot to get Cider 
	re-done one year).

	I wouldn't think 15 months was too long, if you've had them done
	properly before.

	Heather

    I don't think it is too long either.  My cynical side always tells me
    that just like us, vets are out to make a living and will locate ways
    to boost their income by recommeding vaccines/tests that aren't really
    necessary at the given time.  You have to stand firm in your
    convictions, which can be difficult to do.
    

    I don't know if you will be reading this note since I have entered
    it in such an untimely fashion!  
    
    In response to the last question;
    
    Does the cat go out doors?  If so, I would not only revaccinate,
    but I would certainly test for feluek first.  The vaccine is
    good but it is not perfect.  You actually don't know how well the cat
    was protected before let alone letting it go beyond the due date.
    Different circumstances produce a different level of antibodies.
    Therefor, there is no way to know how protected the cat is.
    
    Of course, if the cat doesn't go out an neither do the others, I
    wouldn't sweat it!
    
    I know it may cost more, but you need to ask yourself how you would
    honestly feel inside if something was to go wrong.  It might not bother
    some as much as others.  Do what is right for you and what you are
    comfortable with.  Realize we all have our limitations.  Of course,
    my vet bill is in the K's and I can't afford it!  Hope I never need
    a c-section!  (crossed toes, paws and fingers:'})
    karen

    Well the vet that did the exams and shots was not my 'normal' vet
    but the other partner of the place (a cats only vet, with a small
    kitty oriented gift shop, but gift shop aside they are well 
    recommended) The cat's normal vet was in disagrrement with the first
    vet (that made the recommendation) and so I called Tufts to get 
    'The Word'.  Tufts (after taking 7-8 calls!!!!) finally routed me 
    to a staff vet who has done research on feline immunology who informed 
    me that she didn't know when the (forgive the expression) 'drop dead'
    date would be, but that 2 and one half months was almost certainly
    safe. (Couched in the normal amount of '...although ... and ... but ...
    or ...' type stuff used when absolutes aren't really known. She did
    recommend doing the boosters again in 9 months (their normal shot
    schedule time) when they all get their rabies boosters 'just in case'.
    
    Feline Luk is not absoulutly preventable by innoculation, but it is 
    getting better (the protection that is), but it is not as good at 
    provoking the antibody response as say rabies shots (which are
    effective enough that a booster after many years absence will provoke
    an effective antibody level in one booster (assumming the initial 
    sequence was correctly adminitered) Apparently the Feline Luk is not
    that effective and at some indeterminate point after the last booster
    (some, like my vets collegue say 13-14 months, some here said their vets 
    were at 18 months and Tufts who wouldn't pin it down, but said 12
    months plus 10-11 weeks was 'OK') the series of 2/3 shots (depending on
    which brand/dosage of vaccine?!?) must be restarted.
    
    It is all very confusing, but the end line is that the 'standin' vet
    said 'I am not sure, but ...' and Tufts said 'They should be OK' and
    I would rather not get them two sets of boosters if I can aford it
    (and it is minimal, but the shots themselves (and the exposure to the
    vets office) are also minor risks that I would like to avoid).
    
    And just because I love them, I wrote their original vet back east 
    (who I trust alot, having known him for years ... ) and asked him 
    his opinion as well and if he says give 'em another shot, I'll do it.

    Well it is not an exact science, so what can you do?
    
    Tjp - (Who still owes the group an intro to the 'cat gang')
    

    That is part of my frustration dealing with vets....they all have
    different opinions that vary from one end of the scale to the other.
    
    I did a study a few years ago on the feluk vaccine...and the different
    vets I spoke to said the effectiveness is 40%, 60%, 70% and 95%. Who
    do you believe????   The most you can do as a responsible pet owner
    is do the research...and make the best judgement call you can!!
    
    Sandy
      

    That's sort of what I would expect to hear.  From my personal dealings
    with vet, I have found that if you find someone good, stick with em!
    Usually that particular vet is familiar with your cats health and
    can make a recommendation based on that.  I have listened to my
    vet when I thought all hope was lost, after listening to 
    other people.  Even tho I was about ready to bolt in another
    direction, I forced myself to stick with his opinion.  Bottom
    line, he was right.  Thank god I didn't do something different!~
    In multi cat households, I stick with the theory that if you test
    when someone comes in you can stay pretty safe.
    Karen