Conference cookie::notes$archive:cd_v1

There's been quite a dialogue about this issue in the past few issues
of Digital Audio.  In particular, their recent "review" issue.  The
letter's are overwhelmingly against the cardboard packaging and for
the jewel box packaging.  

				- John

	I wouldn't be surprised if the cardboard sleeve was used not to
	lower the overall cost, but to increase the profit margin!!!!!!

								   Mike

The arguments against the "jewel box" packaging are numerous, and not limited
to cost cutting.  Some of the other arguments I've heard are:

    -	The jewel boxes are impossible to open while driving, and hence not
	suitable for use with auto CD players.

    -	The boxes are made of a brittle plastic, and can break if dropped.

On the other hand,  the cardboard sleeve packaging from Prince's Around the
World in a Day has met with almost universal hatred, particularly since the
cost savings was not passed on to the buyer.

One of the principle purposes of the jewel box is to protect the disk
from warpage.  Note how the disk is suspended from the center.  I don't
see how a cardboard sleeve is going to do that.

In any case, you can always buy empty jewel boxes.

The single largest component in the cost of CDs is the markup by the
retail store.

I haven't seen any cardboard sleeved CD's; hence I can't answer my question.
Do the cardboard ones come with a similiar slip in picture/info sheet/whatever
you call it thats inside the cover of the jewel box CD's? Or, is it just
like a standard record album with printing on the front and back? If the
former is true, you could buy the cardboard sleeved ones, and slip them into
your empty jewel box covers, and have the same effect you get today. Otherwise,
you lose. I personally wouldn't go for the cardboard sleeve type myself.
Even if that lowered the price by a dollar or more ...

I thought that the big advantage of the CD was it being almost indestructable.
the cardboard sleeve seems good enough for vinyl, why not for the CD? Or is it
all a big lie, and those little disks just can't take it? Do they line the
cardboard with some sort of lint free coating to keep the paper dust off the
disk, or are we going to have to clean the dust off the disk, and constantly
take our CD players into the shop for a de-linting of whatever dust we miss? 

I haven't seen the "new" packaging either. It sounds like a mixed blessing. I
agree with .6, that I would still want all of the notes that I now get with a
CD, and also get with many albums, but miss on cassettes. I also find that those
nice little plastic boxes take up a lot more space than is really necessary to
store the disks. I don't think anyone would be complaining if the CDs were never
available in the plastic boxes, and had started in cardboard jackets as LPs had.
                                                                               
It DOES sound like they are trying to rip us off a bit more, cut their costs and
keep the extra profit, but then who isn't doing that to the consumer anymore. 

I have seen the cardboard packages - Warner Brothers is the major label
using them.  They have a tissue-paper inner sleeve.  It is much harder to
get the disc out of the tissue sleeve, even with two hands, than a jewel
box, and you can't help touch the surface of the disc with this package.
WB says that they will start providing inserts for those who want to buy
their own jewel boxes.  So far, the "liner notes" have been printed on the
inside of the large cardboard outer-box, which most people throw out.

				Steve

My reaction is "icky poo".

As someone else on usenet suggested, we can try to nip this in the bud by
not buying any CD that comes in a cardboard sleeve.

And it's true that you can buy empty jewel boxes (Rock'n'Mania has been
selling them for at least a year, at a buck a piece), but why should *we*
increase the purchase price of a CD by having to buy a separate jewel box?

re:.?

Being able to buy jewel boxes separately has been useful for two reasons:
(1) in case the one that came with the CD has been broken by dropping it
(this has happened to me, though it was the hinge that broke rather than
the box itself), and (2) in case you get a double-disc set in a double-
sized box that won't fit into a CD storage unit (they usually come grooved,
with each groove the width of a regular jewel box), you can transfer the
discs to two separate boxes.                                    

--- jerry

Yes, the single largest factor in the price of a CD is the retail markup,
but I don't think you should feel that the retailer is ripping you off (in
general).  A general rule of thumb for retail business of any sort is a
40% markup.  Although this seems like a lot, it is about what is necessary
for a smallish shop to survive.  It can be cut somewhat (to about 30%),
but the more it is cut the more volume the shop must sell without increasing
its overhead.  Ever notice how inadequate the customer service is at a place
like "Service" Merchandise?  It's because they don't employ enough people
to provide service, and that's one reason their prices are low.  Another
major expence is inventory.  Inventory is an investment, and the shop needs
to get a reasonable return on its investment.  There is no dollars-and-cents
reason to keep a large inventory of things that don't sell, if a greater
return can be had by just putting money in a bank.  This is of course an
over simplification, as having a large inventory for customers to browse
through does have an effect on sales, but the cost of the inventory has
to be covered somehow.  If you resent the 40% markup, buy by mail from
discounters, but don't expect the same kind of service.  Me I like to browse,
especially in shops where the employees know their inventory, and can
make knowledgeable reccomendations about which item is most likely to
please their customers.

		George Chaltas

There is so little information on the outside of CD packages in the USA
that browsing is pretty fruitless.  (Through the back of the plastic
anti-theft sleeve you can see ... the handling instructions.)

I find reading reviews in Grammophone and the Penguin guide to classical
music a better way to browse.  No problem ordering by mail, and it cuts
down the impulse buying, which at $15 a pop, you don't want to do.

I happen to like the jewel boxes.  If I ever get a car CD player (about the
last thing I need right now),  I'll devise some temporary easy-access storage
for 20 or so CDs.  That is, if someone hasn't already developed a product
for that purpose.

One problem with buying empty replacement boxes is that the grey CD holder
in the box is not removable.  Consequently, you can't insert the back paper
panel of the old box, which included the spine labels.

I support the boycott of paper-sleeved CDs.

HERE - HERE - FOR BOYCOTTING CARDBOARD SLEEVES!!

As for removing the grey or black insert: look where the radius of the well 
for the CD intersects the top (or bottom) of the clear box. You will find that
if you carefully pry between the black plastic and the clear plastic, that the 
insert will pop out. (Remove CD before trying this.) You can then play with 
the "liner" to your heart's content - even to the point of xeroxing it so you 
can make notes on the copy and save the unmolested original.

			Enjoy!
					Bruce

How are LV disks packaged? (please don't direct me to the LV notes file for
this)

RE: .14

Nearly all LV discs are packaged in cardboard sleeves (the same size as an
LP).  Most discs have an inner plastic liner which is a hassle to deal with
unless it's removed from the sleeve each time.  A few discs have poly-lined
paper liners (like audiophile LPs).

Early LVs were often packaged in boxes since the CAV format (the only format
at that time) resulted in 2-3 discs per title.

The problem of potential damage to CDs packaged in cardboard sleeves
(mentioned in an earlier response) does not apply to LV discs.  LVs are
much more durable than CDs.

-- Ward  (longtime LV junkie)

I'm not sure that I would mind so much if CD's came in cardboard *boxes*
(like many multi-disk LP albums), but I don't like the idea of cardboard
sleeves.

--- jerry

Seems to me that Warner Bros. is making its market penetration for cardboard
packaging to the audience that will most readily accept the product.  For me,
the jewel box offers above average protection for my CDs, a classy appearance,
and a package that will wear well and look like new in the years to come.  I
expect that most buyers of Prince do not share those same priorities with
regards to the packaging of thier CDs.  

Everywhere I buy a CD, I make it a point to find the store manager and tell the
person what I think of the cardbaord packaging.  Its easy to say that I will
never buy one, but if the all thje record companies change over, then I guess
I will be buying a lot of jewel boxes.  And that is just what the record
companies want us to do!  

I've written Warner Bros. to tell then how I feel about their new cardboard
packaging.  If you really want to buy your CDs in jewel boxes, then write
Warner Bros. and tell them so.  

Ken Patterson

Ken -

Please give us the address for Warner Brothers. I for one will write. There are
some WB artists which I like and would like a jewel box style CD of. Thanks.

					Bruce

Good news from Usenet:

Newsgroups: net.audio
Path: decwrl!decvax!ucbvax!ucdavis!lll-crg!seismo!uwvax!astroatc!nicmad!brown
Posted: 26 Oct 85 05:01:42 GMT
Organization: Nicolet Instrument Corp. Madison WI
 
 
Earlier this month I posted an article about WB and the cardboard CD package.
It seems as if the subject of the cardboard package is getting a little hot
and heavy again, so I am reposting the article that I posted, that will make
a lot of you very happy.
 
>From postnews Tue Oct  1 00:46:12 1985
>Subject: WB/Elektra dropping all-board CD packaging
>Newsgroups: net.consumers,net.audio,net.music
>Distribution: usa
>
>[Here, eat this, you cardboard CD package!!!!]
>
>Billboard, 5 Oct 85, Vol 97 #40
>
>     N O   B O A R D ?
>
>Two Labels Seen Abandoning New CD Packaging
>
>According to this article, Warner Brothers and Elektra Records have apparently
>given up attempts to seek early acceptance for all-board CD packaging.  Their
>packaging experiments with two top acts (Prince & Motley Crue), which generated
>a firestorm of protest from retailers and consumers beginning last spring,
>have been shelved indefinitely, according to a highly placed source.
>
>Both Ivy Hill, fabricator of the Prince package, and Shorewood, which manu-
>factured the Motley Crue CD container, say that no similar all-board packages
>for other acts have been ordered by these labels.  In one case, there were even
>hints that eventual reorders of the affected title might go the jewel box
>route.
-- 
 
Mr. Video   {seismo!uwvax!|!decvax|!ihnp4}!nicmad!brown

**************************************************************************

--- jerry

The address for Warner Bros.:

	Alan Perper
	Warner Bros.
	111 North Hollywood Way
	Burbank, CA     91505

I spoke with David Vernier, editor-in-chief of Digital Audio, and he told me
that Warner Bros. has leaked an unofficial word that the cardboard packaging
will be discontinued.  David said that Warner Bros. may make an formal
statement sometime later, but for now they are trying to save a little face.

Let's hear a big cheer for the consumer!

Sob!

  Caveat Emptor.  The Mannheim Steamroller Christmas disc is packaged in
a hybrid jewelbox/cardboard container.  The disc itself is cradled in a
piece of plastic much like that which holds the disc in the jewel box.
(It does appear to be a lighter plastic.)  The rest of the packaging is
like an LP album jacket.  It folds out to display the usual liner notes.
It is evidently someone's idea of a good compromise.  While it is a better
idea than the standard cardboard LP-type jacket, it simply can't be as
durable as the jewel box.  The worst part of this whole thing is that I
payed $17.99 for it at a place that normally sells its CD's for $13.99 or
$14.99.  Why in hell can't we just leave well enough alone.


Gary (Not tlh, Jerry  :^)

Re .22:
    American Grammophone discs are always more expensive than "vanilla"
discs - I can understand this for LPs but not for CDs.  Sigh - I too want
the Christmas disc, so I'll have to put up with the bogus packaging.
Write to AG, though, and complain.
			Steve

Rats.  That will teach me to buy new LPs without waiting for the CD
pressing.  So has anybody seen the Christmas CD in NH?

From:  USENET net.audio Newsgroup
Subject: Re: Mannheim Cardboard Sleeve
Posted: 5 Dec 85 16:59:00 GMT
 
Here's an update:
 
I wrote two letters to American Gramaphone Records last week giving them
my opinion of the new cardboard sleeve used for the Mannheim Steamroller
Christmas CD (AGCD-1984).  I also informed them that my copy was defective.
 
I received a telephone call this morning (12-10-85) from Mike Delich, a 
marketing executive from American Gramaphone records in response to the 
letters. He told me that he was sending me a plastic jewel box to encase 
my copy of AGCD-1984.
 
According to Mr. Delich, Am. Gram. has received several compliants about
plastic jewel boxes.  He did not say exactly what all the complaints were,
except something about the fact that jewel boxes "open like a book".  
Am. Gram. customers are apparently very picky about packaging.
 
The company decided to contract with AGI (?) of Chicago to design 
a new box that would be an improvement over the plastic jewel boxes.  
This box was used with ONLY the Mannheim Steamroller Christmas CD (so far).
Mr. Delich admitted that a "hurry-up" job was done to get the CD
out by Christmas  (hence the lack of an album title on the edge).  
 
Mr. Delich claims that the new cardboard design is NOT cheaper than the
plastic jewel boxes and, unlike CBS's cardboard,  was introduced in response
to customer compliants, to provide better packaging for their CD's. 
 
American Gramaphone is using the Mannheim Steamroller Christmas CD as a
test for the new cardboard design.  Mr Delich says they have received
several favorable letters on the cardboard design as well as some
complaints.  He said that they plan to make a decision on January 1,
whether to go with the new cardboard design.
 
If you would like to make a comment to American Gramaphone on their cardboard
box design, I would suggest you write (soon!) to:
 
Mike Delich
American Gramaphone Records
9130 Mormon Bridge Road
Omaha, NE 68152
 
Mr. Delich also offered to replace my defective copy of the Christmas CD.
While I am not happy with the packaging used for this CD, and am not 
convinced of the reasons for the change from jewel boxes, I am very impressed 
with American Gramaphone's attention to their customers.
 
Joel Hurmence
(ihnp4|hplabs)!hpfcla!j_hurmence

The Mannheim Steamroller Christmas CD is impressive, both in content and
quality, except for the box.  The box, fortunately will cut up and fit into
a jewel box!  Also, I got an ad directly from American Gramaphone.  They
wanted $18.99.  Rockit Records in Nashua sold it at $16.99.  It is probably
available cheaper elsewere.  The price is steep for 35 minutes of music,
but I found it worth the money.  I will, however, write and complain about
the packaging.  Thanks for the name and address.

Jack

I picked up the Christmas Album out in LA last week while at DECUS for
$13.99.  I haven't been able to keep the disk "mounted" in the sleeve --
everytime I open it the disk is loose.  I will be writing AG and
complaining.

				- John

I bought it yesterday (at $18.99 - sigh), and the disc was loose in the
package.  The package is attractive, but not very functional, and it just
barely fits in my CD rack.  I too will write.  The disc itself, though, is
fantastic - the first record of Christmas music I actually like listening
to!
					Steve

Yes, but again the package is not marked if the recording is DDD or <what>?
Anyone know?  It sounds like DDD... I like it.

-- Dave

PS. In my letter, I am going to include my most common complaint that AG
does not plainly mark the recording type.  I could have swarn that Fresh
Aire III was fully digital, but wasted my money anyway... I have taken a
pact to never buy a non-DDD CD again.  I took a chance on this one.

All the AG discs are analog recordings (at least the Fresh Aire series).
A good quality analog recording properly mastered can sound as good as
a digital recording.  If you restrict yourself to DDD discs, you won't
buy very many within the next few years.
				Steve

True?  I thought Fresh Aire IV and V were fully digital (or at least I
KNOW the LP's were... so I assumed the CD's would be).  I won't debate
you about whether a "good quality analog recording properly mastered can
sound as good as a digital recording"... just it is ever harder to determine
a "good" analog master vs. a "bad" one (and I have seen more "bad" ones).
I just want the best sound out of my medium quality equipment.  I have found
fully digital gives me that.  I can worry more about the type of music vs.
the recording type.

-- Dave

Where are people finding the Christmas Album?  Strawberries in Nashua
continues to not have it  (nor the new Barbra Streisand album)  in CD.

My CDs of 20-year old performances of Wagnerian operas sound better than
the CD of the Bolling jazz suite for flute and piano (hiss).  Both were analog
mastered.  I guess it depends on how much care you take in the recording
process.

Re .32:

	As of last night Rockit Records in Nashua had one copy of
	Mannheim Steamroller left on the racks.

	(For a chuckle or two, be sure to read the "liner notes")

					- Don

I found mine at Recordland in the Burlington (MA) Mall.  They had two
left after I bought mine on Tuesday.
				Steve

Want to hear an absolutely awful DIGITAL recording?  Rickie Lee Jones' Magazine.
Her newest album that came out this past summer.  I bought the LP, but it
sounds equally poor on CD.  Really harsh and grainy.

Digital is no guarentee of goodness.

re. 29,31:
I think it's important to find a medium between gread/awaful recording and
great/awaful performance.  It is true that nothing beats (sonically) a great
digitaly recorded music, but if the performance is lousy, why bother?  also
a well recorded analog and carefully transfered can sound as good as a digitaly
recorded one.  When I buy record, I try to strike a compromise between 
performance and sound.  I have moder recording by Philips that sounds great
(and they usually have great performances, too), but I also have old recordings
by Furtwangler, Toscanini(sp?), etc. which don't sound good but the performance
made up for it.

re:.35

I disagree. I found no problem with MAGAZINE.

--- jerry

RE: .22 - .33

Starting at response .22, this topic began a second thread of
conversation -- American Gramaphone's CDs, especially the Christmas.

In order to help get this topic back on track, I've created a new
topic (#237) expressly for discussion about American Gramaphone.
I've extracted the relevant responses from this topic into the first
response of the new topic.

Of course, continuing conversation about cardboard jackets from AG
are appropriate here.

-- Ward

  RE: Christmas cardboard

  Now that I've purchased the Mannheim Steamroller Christmas CD, I'll
  be putting my jewel box letter into the mail tomorrow to American
  Gramaphone.

  I certainly hope that all our letter, and hopefully thousands more,
  will get their attention.

  -- Ward

I saw about five of this CD in the Lechmere's at Framingham today if 
anybodies interested.

In the interest of presenting alternative views on cardboard packaging,
I'm posting the following note ...

From: USENET net.audio Newsgroup
Subject: I LIKE the American Gramophone jewelbox replacement
Organization: Stanford University, Computer Systems Lab
Summary: Mannheim Steamroller packaging is wonderful! (but not jewelbox)
 
I got a copy of the Mannheim Steamroller "Christmas" album as a Christmas
present. I think the packaging is brilliant. It is a superior substitute for
a jewel box. I realize that many of you out there are fanatical on the
issue--I remember reading a note from somebody who was worried that his
jewel boxes were going to be scratched (!!!) if he didn't have individual
slots to slide them into, which means that some of you clearly think of
jewel boxes as valuable artifacts in their own right and not as devices to
hold and display CDs and their documentation.
 
Although the American Gramophone packaging is not as resistant to abrasion
as the current jewel boxes, it would be easy to produce a package designed
along these lines that was better than the jewel box in nearly every way. On
the other hand, any precautions taken to prevent scratching a jewel box will
certainly prevent abrasion of the AG package, thereby rendering the
difference moot.
 
Here's what the AG packaging is like:
 
open:	                            XXXXXXXXXXXX  <-- plastic insert
	=====1======--=====2======--============
            ^       ^         ^front cover
	    |       |        
            |       cloth hinge
	    back cover
 
closed (rolled up):
				   +=====2=======+
				   |XXXXXXXXXXXX |
				   +============ |
				    ======1======+
 
Start with a molded plastic contraption, about the same size and thickness
and strength as the black liner on a current jewel box. Put a 12-finger
gripper in the middle of it, and four finger indentations at the edges to
help remove the CD. Now make a trifold wrap for it out of printed cardboard.
The whole thing unfolds into a strip that is 3 "squares" big, where each
square is the size of a closed jewel box.  When open, the CD in its plastic
holder is the rightmost square, and the left and center squares contain the
material that would traditionally go on the back of an album. When folded
up, the backs of those same two cardboard flaps become the front and back of
the package. When folded, it is a few percent smaller than a jewel box in
each dimension, but it fits neatly into the jewel-box slots in a "CD storage
rack", and seen from a few feet away it blends right in to my rack of 80
CDs.
 
This package is much more impact-resistant than a jewel box (have you ever
dropped a jewel box?), it holds the CD more snugly (the cardboard wrapper
presses against the molded plastic insert in a way that clamps the CD better).
It is prettier (high-quality 4-color printing on 5 surfaces, instead of just
looking through plastic at a cheaply-printed inserted booklet). You can read
the liner notes without having to slide the booklet out of the clips. If a 
slightly different printing process were used (plastic-coated, like playing
cards) then it would also be more abrasion-resistant than jewel boxes.
 
I intend to write American Gramophone a letter telling them that I think
this packaging is wonderful, if for no other reason than to offset the
letters from you guys who can't see past your jewel boxes to recognize
superior packaging technology when you see it.
-- 
	Brian Reid	decwrl!glacier!reid
	Stanford	reid@SU-Glacier.ARPA

RE: Mannheim's cardboard

I gave my wife a copy of the Mannheim Steamroller Christmas CD for
Christmas.  Before I had a chance to warn her about the cardboard
packaging, she had already opened it and had the loose disc fall to
the floor!

On the 26th, I sent my "I won't buy another cardboard packaged disc"
to American Gramaphone.  I hope that my letter at least cancels out
the one Brian Reid is sending (see .41).

-- Ward

I picked up a copy of this on the day before Christmas.  I did think that
the packaging was well, done, but not as nice as the jewel box.  Brian Reid's
illustration has a error or two though - the hinge area are not cloth, just
a single layer of the cardboard with a flat black ink on it.  I had no problem
with the disc falling out.  In fact there was this piece of stiff paper holding
it in.  I'm still not having any problems with the disc falling out, even
without that piece of paper there.  It does have the disadvantage that it
doesn't allow for a multi-page book of liner notes.  This doesn't allow the
manufacturer to give us as much printed information as they might give on an LP.
I'm going to write to them, but my letter will be ambivalent.

Rich

I can live with the AG package, but when I unwrapped it, both the piece
of stiff paper that supposedly holds the disc in, and the disc, fell out.
This needs a bit of work.  Also, I find that the package is a tight squeeze
into my CD case, though it does fit.
			Steve

My Mannheim Steamroller Christmas disc, too, fell out of the cardboard
container when I opened it.  And I don't recall there being a piece of
stiff paper.  Sigh...

							-- Nina

I got the extra paper holder and both it and the disc were in-place when
I opened the package.

In my letter (sent the 26th), I commented about the reduced protection against
dust infiltration (ok, so maybe it matters less for CD's, but I still care),
the difficulty my big fingers have with their four small indents and the
lack of space for extra liner notes.

I also was ambivalent about the jewel box; there may be a better packaging,
but I told them this wasn't it!

-R Swick

My copy of the MS Christmas CD (see .42) did not have the slip of paper
that others mentioned.

I, too, find the four finger depressions to be too shallow to allow me
to get a safe grip on the disc.  (I forgot to mention this in my letter
to AG.  Maybe I should sent a followup letter.)

-- Ward

As a non owner of Compact Disk, I am curious as to what befell (pun intended) 
the disks that landed on the floor. I plan to put one of the mobile versions
of this breed on the ole sloop unless I can find a good reason not to -like
the disk cant take a bounce.

Thanks,   Walt

RE: .48

My dropped Christmas disc apparently was not damaged.

-- Ward

Re .48:
   Neither was mine.  BTW, another thing I dislike about the AG package
is that if you drop the package, the disc will likely fall out.  Not so
with a jewel box, whose latch will tend to stay closed.  I did drop the
package and was disconcerted to see the disc skid across the floor.
				Steve

As a follow up on our AG CD which is not even 2 months old, the cardboard
in the packaging is already wearing white from use.  (tlh is a nut for 
Christmas music and this is one disc that we both liked to listen to.)
I'm astounded that anyone could think that it is the best way (known to
modern science) to store a compact disc.  I hope the write in campaign works.

Gary

RE: .51

Gary, did you participate the AG write-in campaign?  If not, it looks like
you have new fuel for the fire.

-- Ward

RE .48, .49, .50:  My AG disc was not damaged when it fell out of the
cardboard case.  It did land on carpeting; however, it bounced off my
stereo cabinet before landing on the floor.  

							-- Nina

Re: .49 et al.

Thanks. I guess the only thing holding me back now is waiting for the check
book to cool off from Christmas.

I think this little boat system may just turn out OK.  Momma bought me a
Bose 1401 amp/speaker (the Bose part of the Bose/Delco car sound system)
for Christmas.  I am hoping that by the time I buy a mobile CD/FM there
will be a selection to pick and listen to.  Right now they all say SONY.

Walt

RE: .42

Well, my letter to AG paid off!  Yesterday, an empty jewel box and form
letter arrived in the mail from AG.  In my letter to them, I carefully did
NOT ask for a jewel box.  I just expressed my extreme unhappiness with the
cardboard packaging.  I was testing AG's voluntary responsiveness to customer
complaints -- they passed.

Having no love for the cardboard case, I butchered it to make inserts for
my new (no longer empty) jewel box.  The front cover was trivial -- I just
cut the two-side cardboard outer cover down to side and slipped it in.

The back cover was a bitch.  There is only enough space under the grey CD
carrier for a single sheet of paper.  I spent 20-30 minutes carefully 
peeling off the only other useful portion of the cardboard case so that
I could use it for back cover on the jewel box.

-- Ward

This note could be a great inspiration for a Doonesbury strip:

"50,000 yuppies stage a protest in Washington, demanding plastic
 cases for their compact discs..."


  - Brian Batke

My letter payed off also.  Early in the week I got a "blank" jewel box
and the same "form" letter.  The letter said that AG remains committed to
the lousy cardboard box, but have straighten the "bugs" (no title on the
label and too small plastic tabs to hold the CD in place).  No mention of
my other complaints (like not using the standard DDD, ADD, or other labeling).

-- Dave

The joys of being Jewish! I never had the desire to buy this disk.

Even some Cristians dislike Cristmas music and have no desire to buy it.
Once a year is more than enough for Handel's Messiah - sick of it.

    Warner Bros is now making use (how widespread this is, I don't know) of
    the AG style packaging.  Unknowingly, I purchased an album packaged
    in this format.  I am happy with the music [Robert Palmer Riptide
    - DDD], but not with the packaging.
    
    I will be writing Warner Bros tomorrow.
    
    - M

    Best way to cause cardboard CD packaging to go away is to not buy
    cardboard packaged CD's.  Write a letter *instead* of buying.
    	
    Buying and then writing is useless- they already have your money.
    Instead, tell them that you *would* have bought, but instead passed
    up their product (call it "product", it gets their attention because
    that's what they call it) in favor of another company's "product".
    	
    I've dealt with record companies and the mindset of a typical record
    company marketing person is only slightly below that of a used-car
    salesman.  Money talks, nothing else does.
    

    Better yet, tell them you would CONSIDER buying the cardboard packaged
    LP before buying the CD.  That would really get them because they
    make more money on the CD.  The whole industry wants 100% public
    acceptance of CD so they can extract more money out of the "market's"
    pockets when "consumers" re-purchase their record collections.
    
    What might be really entertaining is if the marketeer tells you
    to buy the CD because (in effect) their LP pressings are so bad.
    
    What is the obsession with a damn plastic box?  I wish I was the
    marketing genius getting royalties on a box that people like better
    than the music within.  I wish they too were made of polycarbonate
    so they don't break so easily when dropped or leaned upon.

    The latest 38-Special CD "Strength in Numbers" is without jewelbox
    as well.  The plastic insert in the cardboard package seems to hold
    the CD well enough, but I miss the box.
    
    			-John

    And there was no indication that it wasn't in an jewelbox when I
    bought it.!!!!!
    
    

    The U2 live CD "Under a Blood Red Sky" is also a cardboard box,
    but it has a plastic holder inside it (looks like a normal CD box
    with prongs).
    
    	- Rick

I have discovered yet another reason to loathe the cardboard CD packages.
The weather has been very hot, damp, and muggy in New Hampshire recently.
The cardboard-with-plastic-holder CD cases that I have (the U2 packaging)
have warped.  The cardboard has assumed a distinct U shape.  Apparently they
use good glue on the suckers, because the plastic holders are warped, too,
following the shape of the cardboard.  This doesn't seem to have affected
the CDs any, but I'm not at all comfortable with the situation.

--PSW

re .all

Has anyone seen jewel boxes for sale by themselves ? You can buy empty
cassette and video-tape boxes - why not boxes for CD's ?

Gee, what an idea ! I'll be open for business in two weeks !

:-)
P.

    I've seen replacement jewel boxes for sale at almost any store that
    has a reasonable CD selection.  I don't think they're hard to find
    at all.
    
    -pd

    Yeah, Recoton sells them in packs of two.  Seems we paid the equivalent
    of $1.50/box.
    
    Gary

re .68, .69

Oh well, flush another idea that came after its time... :-)

Thanks for the info, I'll look around.

P.

    I was in a local Camelot record store the other day and saw the
    Mannheim Steamroller Christmas CD packaged in a jewelbox. (!!!)
    Who says that the little guy has no clout.  Now if I can just find
    a buyer for our slightly used, cardboard encased copy.  Hmmm....
    
    A battle is won, but the war isn't done,
    Gary

    Re .71:
    
    What's more, there's now a gold sticker on the package that says
    "Jewel Box Enclosed"!
    					Steve

    RE: .71 and .72
    
    Well, I guess American Gramaphone realized that dissatisfied customers
    were telling all their friends about the awful cardboard packaging.
    I happy to count myself as soldier in the cause of jewel boxes.
    
    -- Ward

    
    
    	I'm displeased as well.....I just received my copy of the 
    	JAZZSINGER, and it cam with the three leaf cardboard jewel
    	box.  So I figured I could take the cardboard, and slip it into
    	the extra jewel box I had, no go..the cardboard is to big.....
    	I plan on sending a letter to the company at least the cardboard
    	could fit into the jewel box....
    
    					Mike
    

    A new CD by Manhattan Records (a subsidiary of Capitol) called 'Digital
    Broadway' by Orchestra Manhattan has one of these cursed boxes,
    too!  (Besides, the album's not all that great, either...)

    Don't remember if anyone's mentioned these, but they were enough
    to make me sick.  Some company has taken to selling CD's in an
    especially trashy disc "wallet".  Most of what I've seen has been
    classical.  Bleah!
    
    Shaking head in disbelief,
    Gary

    Re: .76
    Er...so as not to stir up any angry replys, my "bleah" was directed
    toward the packaging, *not* classical music.

    Gary