Conference cookie::notes$archive:cd_v1

Not intending to kick up a fuss, but I think the reason that you find lots
of people complaining about their Japanese players mistracking, is because
at present, so many more people own Japanese players.  I don't think it has
anything to do with Japanese players being bad, rather that there are so
many more Japanese player owners to hear from.
   We've owned a Technics, for over a year now,and other than the stray cat
hair, we've had no tracking problems.  I don't think that pointing
fingers at players made by certain countries or companies will be very useful.
We might, however, be interested in examining, lower cost models, or models
that have been cheaply made, whatever their cost.  A friend of mine just
purchased a new Technics model, and I must say that I was a little worried
about its construction.  I think they cut a few corners where the chassis
is concerned.  He's had no problems with it so far, though.
   I have no answers for you about 1) and 3).

Gary

I have a Toshiba XR-70 and have never had problems with mistracking.

When I bought it, I tried (just out of curiosity) glueing thin black adhesive
tape on a disk. A 1 mm radial strip caused no mistracking.

I own a Technics SLP-J1 and have had absolutely no problems with it.  
Crystal clearity on every disc I've played in it.  ( Even one that had
a small scratch at the beginning of the disc )

Matt :-)

I own a Sony D-5.  It has never skipped, mistracked, or shown evidence of
any other defect, even on scratched discs.
				Steve

I've got a DENON 1800R.  No problems with mistracking.

John

I've never had a skip out of my SONY D-5.  My SONY 620 ES has a skipping
problem on the first selection after the machine has been playing (not just
powered on) for about 4 hours.

I've called SONY in Westwood, MA and they told me it's a minor adjustment.
I just have to get the time to go down there and have them do it.

Steve

One interesting data point about the skipping on my SONY 620 ES is that
it doesn't skip on TELARC's or American Gramaphone disks.  It seems to favor
the mass market stuff.  Eg: CBS and MCA disks.

Steve

RE. .1

Good point.  It probably is dangerous to make generalizations out of specific
problems.  I didn't intend for the note to sound like I was on a "witch hunt".

Dennis

Interesting, I had problems with a couple of MCA disks on my SONY 302
and it kept getting worse. I bought a humidifier (forced hot air heat in
my house) and got the CD player off the top of my receiver. One of these
fixes worked as I haven't had a peep of a mistrack for over a month. I haven't
had time to isolate which one of the fixes worked. A friend of mine said
he had a problem with an older SONY. He moved his away from his receiver
and says it seems to be working OK. Maybe SONY has a shielding problem?
The receivers in question are older ones ( pre FCC). It wasn't heat on mine
as it would misbehave on startup. Maybe its coincidence. Anybody out there
have similar experiences? 
Good Luck
 Jake
           

This comment is on the edge of this discussion, so I appologise if I am not
adding a specific brand to the fire.

It is interesting to note how much different a minor problem appears to a
consumer of audio today than in the past.

Historically a minor problem was user correctable. Remember bias adjustments
on tube amps ? - some had these on the front or back panel complete with
meters.  Even todays phono turntable can be set-up and largely adjusted (speed,
overhang, offset, VTA, stylusvertival and lateral load) by the user.

With the removal of tubes from the majority of the consumer equipment both
the need and ability to correct minor problems was also removed. In very
recent times the microprocessor has taken over doing many adjustments which
further reduces the ability and need of the user to correct problems.

CD players present some new problems to both the user and industry. The
need to precisely position and correct the laser read mechanism requires
either extremely accurate electrical and mechanical pieces (expensive) or
some ability to compensate for normal production and time variations. 
Either a potentiometer or a microprocessor driven compensation is reasonable
here with cost at this time favoring potentiometers. Apparantly none of the
manufacturers feel comfortable with pots led to where the user could tweak
the player themselves (cant say I blame them). On top of this is the safety 
issue around untrained personnel (read user) gaining access to the interior 
of a laser product while power is applied. 

This leaves us with low cost units that require return to repaircenter/factory
for problem symptoms that would have been solved in the old days by the user.
Minor problems are fast becoming major inconveniences for us (when was the 
last time you tried to set the timing on your own car?) and I think there
is merit in identifying products that best solve this problem, or conversely
have not.

Walt 

                    < Owner of Japanese player checks in >

I have a Denon 1000, never had a problem with it.
   
- M

I've had my Sony CDP-102 for over half year now and had no problem with 
mistracking other then from obvious disc scratches

Charles

  My Nakamichi OMS-5 has never mistracked.  It once "froze" in the middle of
  playing a disc.  I found a cat hair lying along a track.

					-- Roger

One item I forgot to mention in my original note.  My Sony 610ES tracks very
well when it is working (which is most of the time).  I have a disk I 
purchased used from a shop that used it for a demo; it is in bad shape, with
lots of big scratches.  It plays fine on my Sony......it seems that the
the ability to track bad or marginal disks and the mistracking problem I have
are two different things.  When my player acts up, it just won't track.
Sometimes just taking out the disk and then putting it back helps, sometimes
letting it run awhile helps, but it usually clears up by itself. 

Dennis

I have a Magnavox 2020 and have not had a single mistracking problem (or
any other sort of problem, either).

In my previous place of residence, one of my housemates had a Technics (I
forget the model number) which had no mistracking problems. Actually, the
first one he got constantly mistracked. He brought it back and got a
replacement. The replacement never mistracked.

--- jerry

I have a Sony CDP-102. I have yet to hear it mistrack or skip, even on
disks with considerable scratches.

-Tom R.

I have a Magnavox (Phillips) 1040. The only times it has mistracked were when
there were very obvious fingerprints on the business side, and fixing them
was a matter of some breath and a tissue.

					Dick Rosenberg

I had three discs with mistracking problems on my CDP-302.  One had a visible
bad spot on it (looked like a small fold in the foil and plastic where the
data are stored on the disc).  I returned that one for a new copy where I
bought it.  The second problem turned out to be a cat hair nearly parallel
to the groove.  The third was some surface contamination that I was never
able to see, but I could move the mistrack around on the disc by wiping
it with a soft cloth.  After playing with it for a while, I moved it
completely off the disc.

I've never seen my CDP-302 mistrack except when it was justified in doing
so (i.e., contaminated or flawed disc).

--PSW

Another Maganavox 2041 owner checking in. No problems as of yet, even playing
a disc that had been used as a record store demo. Loads of scratches, but
nary a mistrack.  Al

To all of the previous responses:

There are two sources of CD mechanics: Sony (Japan) and Phillips (Europe). The
fact that your player does comes from Japan does not imply Sony mechanics. In
fact several Japanese players use the Philips mechanics; among them Nakamichi,
Kyocera, and I think Harmon/Kardon. I also imagine that some of the non-Japanese
boxes use the Sony mechanics. I don't have a complete list of which companies
use whose mechanics, but such a list might prove interesting. I do know that all
of the high end contenders use the Phillips mechanics, regardless of where they
are made. 

Mistracking is likely caused by the OEMed mechanics, not what the box
manufacturer does, so the real question that should be asked here is do you have
Sony or Phillips mechanics, and does that unit mistrack. Also, how many of you
would even hear mistracking? I'm not sure I would know it happened to mine. If
the box tries to correct the lost data, you lose some sound quality, but it
isn't the same as a record skipping. I am not refering to serious mistracking,
like pounding on the player, which is clearly audible. About the only way to
detect any mistracking would be to examine the digital data as it comes off the
disk. Anyone got an RRD50 as a home CD player? 

	I've got a Sony cdp-70 and last night was the first time
I noticed a skip. THe disc is Ziggy Stardust (David Bowie). I just
bought that disc last night and noticed 2 skips, but haven't had time
to investagate the problem. Other than that, I've had no problems

Ken

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<RE: Players Mistracking>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

I have a Yamaha CD-3, and the only time it has not tracked perfectly is 
when I have had dust particles on the disk.  The fix of course was very 
simple.

One suggestion though:  I jsut finished moving my living room around, and
during the process, strirred up a lot of dust; after I put the system 
back together, *many* of my disks mistracked, (particularly my Windham 
Hill disks).

Well the problem went away as soon as I cleaned the disks, then took a 
can of Dust Off and blew the player out, cleaned the rest of my 
collection, and moved the player so that it would sit *inside* my 
cabinet, rather than on top of it where it had been sitting.  Moral to 
the story I believe is *not to expose any player to excessive dust*.

It might be interesting to note that the Philips uses a D'Arsenval movement
(like in VU meters) to position the optics. There is one distinct advantage
over linear positioners in that it is not subject to varying friction levels
across its throw as are linears. If I were to hazard a guess as to one of
the causes of skipping, it would be that some bearing way distortion is causing
increased friction at some point which prevents the optics from continuing
to follow the spiraling track. This friction could be caused by thermal
expansion, dirt or other foreign objects either on the bearing ways or
positioner motor linkage. 

Again its just a thought. Its worth keeping in mind that the number of Sony
type positioners probably outnumber Philips type considerably. Even if there
were no difference in reliability between the two, we would see more incidents
of trouble with the former due to the greater numbers. So even though there
is valuable information being related here, since this is not a statistically
valid sampling process, it will be difficult to draw any general conclusions
about the reliability of each design.  I related in another note however,
DEC evaluated all the CD players (sound quality was not a parameter) and chose
the Philips transport design for the RRD50. That says something.

Walt 

        I've had a Technics SLP8 for 2 years now sitting on top of a
        cabinet and never had any mistracking problems.
        
        	Owen 

    My housemates Sony CDP-302 has a definte problem loading a disk.
    It just gets in one of its "moods" and refuses to load a disk for
    the first 10 tries or so.  After that it's fine.  It doesn't seem
    to matter what kind of disk it is.
    
    I'll suggest moving the CD player and trying a humidifier.
    
    	- Barry

    My Sony 102 seem to be having a bit of that problem too, but not
    very severe.  What it does is that after I first turn it on and
    load a disc, the drawer would close and disc starts to spin and
    beginning being searched.  Sometime it will not find the beginning
    and would stop the search and open the drawer.  This only occurs
    after I first turned on the machine.  I think once it warms up a
    bit, it reads and locks onto beginning of discs pretty fast.
    
    When the problem occurs, I usually tap lightly on the side of the
    player and this usually solves the problem.
    
    I still love my Sony though...
    
    Charles
    

    re .25 and .26
    
    I have a CDP-302 which has the same problem:  can't find the beginning
    of a newly-loaded disk when the machine is cold.  I have taken it
    to the Sony service place in Westwood, which is taking its own sweet
    time about fixing it (still in warranty).
    
    Bob Morse

    re: .27
    
    Warning: inside joke
    
    	Reminds me of a spec I was recently waiting for.   :-)
    
                        
    - Ben

    My SONE CDP-200 has the same problem.  All I do to fix it is open
    the drawer, re-seat the disk, and close the drawer again.  From
    what I've read in this file about getting players fixed, it doesn't
    seem worth it to take it in for repair.
    

HERE ARE THE RESULTS OF THE SURVEY OF THIS NOTE TO DATE:

 NO REPORTED PROBLEM             MAY BE A PROBLEM OR IS A PROBLEM

  TECHNICS  NO MODEL                       SONY 620ES
  TOSHIBA XR-70                            SONY 302
  TECHNICS SLP-J1                          SONY 610ES
  SONY D-5                                 SONY CDP 70
  DENNON 1800R                             SONY 302
  SONY D-5                                 SONY 102
  DENON 100                                SONY 302
  SONY CDP 102
  NAKAMICHI OMS-5
  MAGNAVOX 2020
  SONY CDP 102
  MAGNAVOX 1040
  SONY CDP 302
  MAGNAVOX 2041
  YAMAHA CD-3
  TECHNICS SLP8


I probably should not draw any conclusions in writing on the results
so far, as someone will think I am picking on SONY.......but........
to me it appears that there is a least *SOME* indication that there
may be *SOME* factors that affect the tracking on *SOME* SONY units.

Any comments?    

                 Dennis

   
    Add Magnavox 3030 to the no reported problem side.

	Ahh, so this is a survey. Well, my CDP-302 has performed
	perfectly since I got it two weeks ago.
	
	Mike

    In the 15 months that I have had my SONY CDP-111, it has performed
    flawlessly.  Out of the 250 CDs I have purchased, only one was 
    defective.  It wasn't too long ago when one out of every two records
    I bought was either warped or defective.  
    
    Ken

    Re: .30
    I believe I'm the one with the no number Technics.  (It's an SL-P2.)
    In any case, we've had no problem with mistracking, however the
    player does seem to be sensitive to static electricity.  I blew
    some of the display electronics just by touching the front panel.
    We haven't bothered to take it to the shop because it continues
    to play just fine.  The display has a few segments, however, that
    are permanently lit.  Beware the dread electron!
    
    Gary

    To add another vote for working CDP-302s, I've had no problems.
    I do have a humidifier in the same room, so that may be a clue.
    
    My only problem is all the dust on my furniture settled by the
    moist air from the humidifier.
    
    			-John

Revox B225, NEVER a problem.

...I let my children, ages 6 and 11, run it and they're not TOO careful
with their discs...

Stephen

Sony CDP 400 and 620ES

Had the 400 for a 1 1/2 and have had the 620 for 5 months.  Both have worked
flawlessly with not one problem.

- peter

    Add my SONY CDP-200 to the list of players with occaisional problems.
    

    Note that in a previous note a number of Yamaha owners checked in
    with definite problems on CD-X1 and CD-X2 players.  At least two
    CD-X2 owners (myself being one) ended up having to replace the
    machine entirely. My new Yamaha CD-300 works fine (so far).
    		George

	Well, I took my Sony 610ES up to the dealer in Denver and
	had a long talk with the technician that repairs all of the
	CD players.  He said that *ALL* players have problems tracking
	below 65 degrees F.  

	He said this includes the portables and car units!  I find
	this a little hard to believe.  65 really isn't all that cold.

	Anyone have experience with operating CD's at low temperatures?

	Dennis

      I have a CDP-111.  It mistracks on CD's that cold.  (I left
      one out overnight)  It worked fine after the CD warmed up (~20
      Min)
      
      -Andy-

    Just the same, service types are apt to exaggerate problems they
    don't know how to fix.  When I sent my late unlamented Yamaha CD-X2
    back to fix the tracking problem, It came back with a form letter
    saying that it had been adjusted to track some standard Philips
    disk, and if it still didn't works it was probably the disk, as
    quality control on disks is quite poor due to high demand and
    just because a disk it won't play will play on another machine
    doesn't mean the machine is defective (that's
    what THEY said -- not necessarily my opinion).  They did say that
    if it mistracked on most disks that it probably was still out of
    whack.  It still mistracked horribly -- and inconsitently, so
    I returned it for a replacement -- Yamaha CD-300, which so far
    works fine.
    		George

    The latest issue of IAR describes a CD reader made by Cambridge. It has
    some sort of display to indicate mistracking of the disk, and to let
    you know about hard and soft errors. It also tells you when the ECC and
    other corrections are pressed into action. It seems that even the best
    made of the current CD production are much worse that the 'specs' have
    told us they should be. I wish something like this was either available
    cheap (I think this unit was over $1000), or that CD players had these
    indicator lights on them somewhere (kind of like the F/S diagnostic
    lights we use) 

    The Meridian Pro has indicator lights specifying when soft and hard
    errors occur.  If you have a Magnavox, its not hard to pull out
    these flags.
    
    Judging from preliminary specs on the new Philips chip sets, doing
    this might be a little harder because of increased integration and
    improved error correction.  What you can get at is the flag indicating
    a raw error and the flag indicating that the player has gotten a
    whole slew of hard errors and should mute.
    
    The new Philips chip set will have much better error correction
    than the current one and other CD players for that matter.  They
    are able to correct 15 frames (bytes) instead of 7, and will
    interpolate for 8 samples instead of just one.
    
    I suspect that the improved error correction is substantially
    responsible for the good preliminary reviews of Philips prototypes.
    
    Mark

    Since I've just gotten to this note for the first time, my reply
    is coming in a bit late...but it is better than never:
    
    1. In your summary list, you had "DENON 100" in the left hand column.
     That should be "Denon 1000".  (Actual name is Denon DCD-1000).
    2. My Denon DCD-1000 has had no mistracking problems.  It's in a
    cabinet, no humidifiers or anything like that.  I own a dog too.

    Well, I finally got my Sony 610ES back from the repair shop after
    about 6 weeks.  I think they really got the mistracking problem
    fixed.  They replaced one of the LSI IC's but I am not sure what
    one.  I having been using the player every day for 2 weeks, and
    it has not had any tracking problems.  
    
    This sure points out the importance to me of how long the warranty
    period is, because I have had the unit over 18 months.  I would
    say to anyone having mistracking or other problems with their
    players to keep taking them back until they get it fixed!
    
    Dennis
    

	I thought I would add another reply to continue the long
	drawn out saga of trying to get my Sony 610ES player fixed.
	Not too long after writing reply .45 to this note the
	machine started acting up again....exactely the same problem
	as before.

	Now for the HORROR story.  I took the player back to the
	dealer the first week in AUGUST!  It still isn't fixed!  I
	won't bother you with the details, it has been to the
	SONY FACTORY REPAIR and they just made it worse.  The
	dealer is trying to get SONY to replace the unit, but they
	admit it is going to be difficult.  I estimate my player
	has been in the shop for about 10 months out of the two
	years I have had it.

	All SONY dealers I have talked to say that SONY has become
	so big that they are almost impossible to work with.  I
	certainly don't blame the dealer for my problems, but sure
	seems that SONY isn't standing behind their products, because
	they have been very little help in getting my problems
	resolved.

	Hope no one else has to go through this!

	Dennis

    FYI, trying to get any Sony video stuff serviced is the same.
    So, apparently, it's the entire Sony organization, not just the
    audio branch...
    
    (They've already announced that they're going to get out of consumer
    electronics altogether.  I wonder if they started with the service
    organizations??? :-) ).
    
    				Vernon
    

    
    I have a Yamaha CD-3 which has started to act a little funny.  It
    seems to skip on startup when it's cold in the room - like 60 degrees.
    Is that on the "cold" side of the range for operating temps for
    these units?  What's a typical temperature range for a CD player?
    I don't have a manual, and Natural Sound wasn't much help.
    
    Thanks.

I recall most of the home units had operating temperatures of
about 55F - 110F.  This was a couple of years ago and only for
home (not portable units).  Things may have changed.

    Since I have been through a lot of the issues on how cold a CD
    player can get and still work I will tell you what I know about
    the subject.  Sony has had a lot of trouble with their players
    skipping at cold temperatures, and has determined that the flex
    circuit that connects to the read head gets stiff at cold temps.
    They have a replacement flex for most of their players that fixes
    the problem.  
    
    I have been unable to get any information frommanufacturers about
    the operating range for an in home unit.  My opinion is that it
    should work at 60 degrees.  
    
    Does anyone out there with a car unit know if a operating temperature
    is specified?
    
    Dennis

    Designed by fired "O" ring engineers?

	I've got a Sony am/fm/cd unit in my car.  The temperature has
	gotten down to below 0 the past few days, and the cd works fine.
	One night the inject mechanism was a little slow to pull in the
	disc, but it played fine.  I usually listen to a disc while the
	car warms up.  The only problem I've had is the time the 
	humidity from my skin turned to frost on the disc, and the player
	refused to play it.  I remember the documentation talking about
	the humidity, but not the temperature.  

						     
							- JP

    
    It's 50 degrees in the house right now (like it usually is in the
    winter) and my CD player has yet to skip a beat (NEC 650).
    
    
	    							-mr. bill

    I know this isn't typical, but when I had the D-5 in my car, I used
    to leave it out on occasion during the winter, and it never mistracked
    at all (surprise!!).  I think the coldest it got was about 0 F.
    
    At home, I set my thermostat back to 55 at night (I'm actually not
    too uncomfortable at that temp).  The stereo room is slightly colder
    than that in the morning (because it's over the temporarily uninsulated
    garage), but my Yamaha CD-2 has never caused me any problems.  (Most
    mornings I play something while I run around and get dressed).
    
    					Vernon
    

    I started this note over a year ago, and was never able to get my
    SONY 610ES repaired.  Well, after an incredible amount of fustration
    and many, many phone calls, and having my player in the shop for
    over 7 months,  SONY REPLACED THE UNIT.  Yes, if you can hang in
    there long enough, the bureaucracy sometimes can come through.
    
    Not only did they give me a new unit, but one more expensive than
    the 610.  They replaced it with a 620ES II!  I think if it was not
    for the dealer really going to bat for me, this may not of happened.
    Now, I get to see if the new unit is going to perform for me.
    
    Dennis
    

    For the record, my 620 went into the shop about a month ago and
    has been fine ever since.  (Note it took just over 2 weeks.)
    
    Before I took the player into the shop, I ordered the repair manual
    and noticed that the adjustments are actually quite simple.  I did
    2 out of the 3 adjustments myself.  The remaining adjustment required
    a few fancy tools I didn't have so off it went.
    
    To fix a mistracking problem, you'll need the following equipment:
    
    Philips head screwdriver
    Simple osciscope (forgive the spelling)
    Frequency counter
    Signal generator
    
    Unfortunately I didn't have the latter two items so I was unable
    to make the final adjustment.
    
    Steve
    
    In my case, the 620 was still under waranty so I didn't mind taking
    it into the shop.  If your unit has passed the waranty period, and
    your having a skipping problem I strongly suggest ordering the repair
    manual (it should cost less than $25.00) and turn to the section
    that talks about tracking adjustments.  The Sony repair manual I
    was dealing with was well written and could be understood by someone
    that had little or no knowledge of electronics (mainly me).
    
    
    
    

    Where does one go to get the shop manual?

    Re: .58
    
    Order the service manual from your dealer.
    
    			Steve

    
    Re: .58
    
    If the dealer can't get it for you, there is a telephone number
    on the back of your owners manual for repair service in New Jersey
    someplace.  If you call that number you can place an order.
    
    Steve
    

    Looks like this topic has been reswurrected after all these months.
    
    FWIW:  I've got a Denon DCD-1500.  I've played at least 275 disks
    in the past 6 months, approximately 125 of them from the library.
    I"ve had one disk that had a problem on 1 track.  It had a deep
    circular scratch at least an inch long at the spot that kept repeating. 
    
    I did invest $12 in a disc cleaner for the library discs...
    What do people do, use them for frisbees?  Or fingerprint pads?
    
    Other than that single disc I've never had a disc that didn't play
    perfectly.  And some of them were pretty well scratched, gouged,
    dirty, nasty, and just generally cruddy looking.  I clean the library
    discs 'cause I don't want that corruption falling into the optics.

    D

    
    	After two years with my CD player, I finally have to submit
    to mistracking.  It was fine all summer and about September or October
    it started.  I've cleaned the disks that it mistracks on, but the
    result is still the same.  The temperature in my apartment is always
    60-63 degrees night and day, but after having read this entire topic
    and its replies, I'm not sure of the humidity.  I think I'll give
    a humidifier a try and see if that helps.  
    
    Matt :^)

    re: .65
    
    After owning my player for a year (and having it repaired once for
    a problem not related to mistracking) it suddenly began skipping
    like crazy a few days ago, especially during the first 10 minutes
    of a disc.  I thought .65 might have something, so I set my ultrasonic
    humidifier up about 4 feet from the player and took aim at the front
    panel.  That's enough to supply lots of humidity, but not enough
    to make the unit start to get wet to the touch.
    
    I had been playing the unit for about 5 hours prior to setting up
    the humidifier and listening to it skip a LOT!  I continued to play
    the unit with the humidifier aimed at it.  After about 90 minutes,
    the incidence of skipping seemed to begin to lessen.  After about
    3 hours the skipping was GONE.  I have now been playing the unit
    for another 5 hours and it has not skipped in all that time.
    
    I suspect that this is related to the fact that for the past several
    days the weather has been very cold here in New England, and my
    two wood stoves have been consuming trees like mad.  This has brought
    the humidity in my house down to about 35% from around 45-50% before.
    I'm not happy about the thought of buying a humidifier for my CD
    player, but at least it seems to be a possible solution.
    
    Anyone else had a similar experience????   Other ideas???
    
    Bruce
    

    Other in here have mentioned humidity being a factor in CD player
    operation.  What is the mechanism?  Is it due to static electricity
    build up on the disks due to the low humidity?  Could a built up charge
    affect the laser tracking system? 

    Re: .66  Some more info.
    
    The next morning I played the unit for 2 hours; no skipping.
    
    So I picked it up and moved it to another room without the humidifier.
    Listening with headphones, the unit began skipping again in less
    than 2 hours.  Bringing it back into the room with the humidifier
    caused the skipping to stop in about 2 hours again.  I'm convinced
    that this is the solution, at least to MY problem.
    
    One other interesting piece of information is that I had been noticing
    that the motor was getting noiser over time for about the past 2
    weeks.  Using the humidifier seems to make the motor quiet down
    to the level that I am used to.  I don't explain 'em - I only report
    'em!
    
    Re: .67
    
    I doubt that the motor noise has much to do with the skipping, but
    who knows?  My guess (and it's only a guess!) is that static builds
    up on the spinning disc - it's plastic remember.  When it discharges
    (perhaps to the laser?), who knows what happens?  From past experience,
    I am willing to believe that static discharge can screw up almost
    anything when it comes to solid state electronics.  It seems to
    be part of the price we pay for compact and (relatively) inexpensive
    stereo components (for the performance they give) these days.

    While the humidifier helps, does the "white dust" get inside and
    bother anything?  I use a conditioner to minimize the "white dust"
    but it still gets on the front/top of my CD/receiver.
    
    				-John

It sure bothers things at my house!  If I've run the humidifier for a while
(like a day or two) and I haven't used the CD player during that time, it
cannot locate any tracks on the disc at all (although it seems to read the
header OK).  After a minute or so, the spinning CD blows the dust off the
laser pickup and everything's OK again.

--PSW

    re: .69, .70
    
    OOPS!  Sorry if I misled anyone!  I only had the humidifier pointed
    directly at the player for the experiment.  I've been running with
    the humidifier for a wwek now and only one skip in all that time.
    BUT... I have had the humidifier about 6 feet from the player and
    only vaguely pointed in the direction of the player, not directly
    at it.  I certainly would expect the "white powder" to be a problem
    and let me say it very plainly:
    
    I only pointed the humidifier directly at the player from close
    by to get a quick change for the experiment.  I DO NOT normally
    run it that way, and I don't recommend that anyone else do so either.
    
    Sorry if this has caused anyone any real aggrevation.
    
    Bruce
    

    
    	My PDM-60 was doing it a bit over the week end.  I thought it
    was dust/dirt since it seemed to be worse on one or two of the six
    disks I had in there.  It got unbearable on one disk so I decided
    to wash it, as I was drying it the humidity question came into my
    mind so I left a few very small droplets of water on the label side,
    problem went away entirely.  I'm also a wood burner (fiercely this
    week_end) and though I boil off a couple of gallons of water a day in
    a big iron pot in the basement it barely reaches 35 % upstairs.
    
    	Subjective conclusion is that something in there don't like
    being too dry.  I can solve the problem without understanding it
    further, may resort to drying clothes on the CD player if this cold
    spell continues.

    	Reg
    

    re: .72
    
    This idea of leaving a little water on the top surface intrigued
    me, but I didn't like the idea of free liquid water running around
    inside my player when I spin up the disc.  I felt that the water
    might simply spray itself off of the disc once it started to spin.
    
    I tried breathing all over the top surface of the disc a few times and
    getting it good and foggy before putting it in the player.  Lo and
    behold! This definitely seemed to help the skipping!  Again, I don't
    explain 'em, I just report 'em!
    
    Bruce
    

    re (.73 re .72)	I may have overstated the amount of water I
    left on the disk, I said,  "a few very small droplets of water on
    the label side".  It is more accurate to say, " I didn't finish
    drying it entirely ", i.e. I left it damp, no big gobs of water
    to go flying off the edge and short out power supplies, etc.
    
    	Reg
    

    Working in a DEC laboratory which investigates (among other things)
    residue problems on electronic equipment, I'm abit squeamish about
    using my ultrasonic humidifier because of the white dust problem
    (although I do use it all the time in the winter).  This dust has the
    potential of containing corrosive ions (esp. chlorides) which in the
    presence of water (humidity) can cause corrosion and potential
    reliabilty problems in electrical components. 
    
    As an aside, can someone send me the address to order the water filter
    which is supposed to minimize this dust.  I seem to have misplaced the
    order form which came with my humidifier. 

    
    
    The motor noise mentioned earlier CAN be related to the correction
    of errors on the disk, but it is a result of excessive correction,
    not the source. My Denon 1500 is noisier with badly-pressed disks
    than with f.i. ECM or Decca. The noise is the result of continuous
    speed adjustment when the bits scanned by the laser are not in perfect
    sequence. And with low humidity (-> static buildup) and/or 'white
    dust' the laser can be thrown off track more often than under normal
    conditions, resulting in bad sampling and thus more motor noise.
    The positioner can be noisy as well as a result of this. 
    Static on the disc doesn't directly affect the sampling, but static
    can attract dust (which in turn obscures the disc from the laser)
    and the discharge of the static can induce small spikes either in
    the positioner servo system or in the laser preamp. 
    So there are some possible relations between all the observed problems:
    take your choice.
    
    							- Rik -

My CD player, a 3-year-old Fisher, mistracks at the start of most CDs most of
the time.  I have removed the cover and cleaned off the laser and pickup (the
unit seems clean inside) without any benefit.  (Yes, I make sure that the discs
are clean, too.)

Are there any suggestions for further simple maintenance or checks?

Thanks,
Bob

    I need some more info. This file doesn't appear to be too active,
    but here goes. It may not be mistracking, per say: I own a Tech-
    nics (3yrs) and a weird thing happened last week. I was playing
    a disc and it kept going back never finishing the song. I changed
    the disc and then it jumped ahead to the middle of another song
    and continued to do various back and forth and repeat things.
    Yesterday I tried it again and it worked fine.
    
    Help me with some possibilities as to the problem. The discs are
    clean and have never had any problems, the room temperature is
    fairly constant (the machine has never been cleaned - it's in a
    cabinet) and no rugs so I don't think static electricity is a 
    major potential. As I've said, it worked fine up until that point
    and seems to be okay now. Any help?
    
    Chip

I had (note the past tense) (actually I still have it, but don't use it)
a Technics CD player that developed the same problem. A friend with a
similar model also had the problem. From what we were able to determine,
it's a problem with the tracking mechanism, probably an engineering defect
where it just wears out. Since it's tough to find anyone to repair CD
players, and when you do, they're very expensive, I decided it would be
better to buy a new (and non-Technics) player.

Sorry to disappoint you, but it appears to be a problem with most 1984-85
Technics players. There's nothing wrong with your discs, and it's fairly
random when it will happen, but it will get worse with time. Cleaning won't
fix it.

I say dump it and buy a new machine. The new ones are more reliable and
hopefully will last longer. I've had my Onkyo for almost 2 years with no
problems, not even a skip. If you get the Technics fixed, it will probably
happen again, and besides, you can supposedly get only a few thousand hours
out of a laser before it burns out.

Anyone out there had a burned out laser yet? Can they be replaced?
You don't throw away a turntable when the stylus wears out, so you shouldn't
throw out a CD player because the laser burns out.

Scott

                       -<it's worth a shot>-
    	It sounds like you have an unrelated problem (specific to
    Technics), but here's some food for thought.  A friend of mine had
    a tracking problem with a Fischer CD player (which I sold him).
    Being both in field service (not possessing the ability to leave
    things alone) we used an aeroduster (canned compressed air) to 
    "dust off" the laser pickup.  The unit worked fine after that. 
    Hope this helps.
    
    Dale Riegle
    Field Service, Trumbull, CT
    
    p.s. The CD player was less than 1 year old.

    Thanks for the quick responses. I will hang a little longer with
    the Technics and try the compressed air action. Something is very
    wrong (in my mind) if life expectancy is 3 years or less with the
    machine. If you're careful you can get more out of a stylus for
    crying out loud. Just venting. I refuse to get it repaired and I
    will let the dealer know first hand that I'm more than disappointed.
    (I want a stackable player anyway).
    
    Thanks Again,
    
    Chip