Conference cookie::notes$archive:cd_v1

>    the car.  I liked the Technics mumble-7 but it runs on +/- 6 volts;
>    I really didn't want to deal with that.  

Hmmm...  do you have any more info on this +/- 6 volts?  Will it work in an 
older car with a 6 volt electrical system?  i.e does it need a 12 volt input 
that it monkeys with, or does it invert the + 6 volts inside?

The reason I'm asking is that my car has a 6 volt electrical system and stereo 
installation has been a problem in the past.  I've had to add a separate 12 
volt electrical system just for the cassette/fm.

skip

    I just looked at one of those Technics the other day.  By all
    appearances, you have to feed it three bits of copper: +6, gnd,
    -6.  The place where I was looking at it told me that it was the
    single reason that they haven't sold any yet.

    Yes, indeed... it requires both + and -.  Were it not for the fact
    that the power supply ground is attached to the audio ground you
    could wave your hands (on a 12 volt car) and get something that
    looks like +- 6... I guess in a 6-volt car you could build a mega
    charge-pump and get +-6 volts... 
    
    If they still sell those converters that convert positive ground
    to negative ground and 6 to twelve volts, you could modify one of
    those to put out most anything you want... those of us with twelve
    volt systems would probably rather just regulate down to 9 volts
    and listen to the toons.....
    
    BUT ... I can't find the plug that mates with the magnavox for power.
    it looks like about 3mm OD.. I'm trying to get one from magnavox
    parts, but the people who answer the phone aren't exactly the brightest
    bulbs on the circuit...
    					...tek

I installed a Sony D5 in my car over a year ago and it has worked out great.
Since I have installed it, I rarely ever listen to my NAK cassette anymore.
My basic system consists of a Proton crossover/equalizer which feeds three
Proton power amps, Front, Rear and subwoofers. I built a small box which
contains a variable voltage regulator IC, which is adjusted for 9 volts.
It also contains a 4 pole double throw switch, which is used to switch the
inputs to the crossover/equalizer between the Cassette deck and the D5.
Three of the poles are used to switch the audio (left, right and ground)
and the fourth is used to supply power to the regulator when switched to
the CD position. This voltage is ORed via 2 diodes with the remote (or
power amp turn on) from the cassette deck, so that the crossover/equalizer
and amps will turn on if either the cassette is turned on, or the input
selector is switched to CD. The one thing I did learn, is that with the
D5 anyway, you must switch the audio ground, and not tie it together with
that of the cassette deck. If you do, you get a terrible ground loop. Also,
a friend ran into the same problem when he connected the audio ground to
the power ground, so I would suggest you keep them all separate. I also
installed a small, stereo potentiometer in my box on the input from the
D5 to use as a volume control. However, I found it much more convenient
to take the output from the D5 headphone jack and run that into the
system, rather than the line outputs. I could detect no difference in
sound, and this lets me control the volume from the player. I mostly
put the player on the car seat, but I have also put it in the glove
box. I have not had any skipping problems with it in either place,
however, I do have a large smooth riding car. To those out there that
may think that the sound of a CD in the car might be wasted, don't
knock it till you try it. They make as much difference in the car as
they do in the house. Granted you may not notice the quiet as much in
the car, but you will notice the added frequency response and dynamic
range given that the rest of your audio system is up to it. The bad
part about all this is that you may find yourself wanting to upgrade
the rest of your car system to match. What really bugs me about car
audio is that it often costs more than the stuff in your house!

    "Don't knock it 'till you try it!"?
    
    It would seem that in the case of portable CD players in the car
    the saying should be:
    

    "Don't buy it 'till you knock it!"?
    
    						-Dave :-)

    Just having quasi installed a Technics SL-XP7 in my car:
    
    Well not really.  As mentioned in .0, the power requirements for
    this thing are sort of odd.  At first, I had the idea of wiring
    up a couple of 6V regulators to make a sort of -6/0/+6 supply wherein
    the gnd tap was really +6V relative to the car's chassis, but then
    I got out a voltmeter and discovered that the gnd connection runs
    straight through to the gnd on the line out jack, so I really didn't
    want to do that without some sort of isolation on either the inputs
    or outputs.  After messing around for a few weeks, not being able
    to find anything compatible with the power connector on the back,
    we finally opted to get a voltage inverter for the car.  Crude,
    but effective, I suppose, although we haven't gotten it wired up
    yet.  Just for the curious among you:  the transformer for the deck
    actually puts out -20/0/+20V in order to charge the batteries, so
    the bulk of the 6V regulation has to be going on inside the player.
    For that matter, driving just a voltmeter (which of course is an
    indication of almost nothing), the batteries put out about -9/0/+9V,
    so the voltage in general doesn't seem to be that critical.  At
    least with the inverter, I ought to be able to recharge the battery
    pack while in the car.
    
    The audio part of this was much easier with the potential for nasty
    ground loops removed.  My car has a fairly neat "bus" on which you
    can daisy chain line level devices (in this case, an equalizer).
    It has a pair of line out leads and a pair of line in leads, as
    well as other unidentified signals in an 8 pin DIN connector.  The
    last device has a "terminator" plug on it, which simply bridges
    the line out back to the line in.  So, the task here is as simple
    as finding some 8 pin DIN connectors, and one of those mini-stereo
    jacks and some audio quality wire.  For the short term, I just have
    two wires running out from under the ashtray (yeah, it looks bad),
    one with the line out on a female connector, the other with line
    in on a male connector.  If I want to listen to the radio, I just
    plug the two into each other.  If I want to listen to the CD, I
    separate the plugs, and plug the line in into the back of the CD
    player.  From there on in, I can use the volume control on the car's
    stereo, as well as its equalizer, etc.
    
    I must say, after a weekend of driving around (mostly to parts stores
    to get some of the more obscure parts) with the CD going, testing
    the rigidity of the glass (;-), the radio really sounds flat by
    comparison.  I'd always known that virtually everyone on the FM
    band compresses the h___ out of their music (with the possible
    exception of some classical stations), but it's amazing how much
    once you get a chance to compare it with something that isn't
    compressed.  Even the stations bragging that they just played the
    last few sets on a CD compress their signal, which to me seems to
    be defeating the purpose.
    
    In future installations, I'm going to install a regular sized stereo
    headphone jack into the console, with the built in switching that
    will cut off the radio as soon as something's plugged into the jack.
    Since I use the CD outside of the car that I spend inside of the
    car in total, I don't really want to do a permanent installation
    here (as it really isn't feasible to do a neat job of it with this
    portable deck anyway).
    
    In summary, I'd have probably been better off buying a Sony D-5
    or D-7, so I wouldn't have had to fiddle with the power in the first
    place.  As it turns out, I got a good enough price on the Technics
    that I came out with about the same expense as a normally priced
    Sony once I take the inverter into account, but what the heck? 
    Now I've got 110 in the car (or will soon...).  A note of caution
    about the Technics:  I've found that while it sounds fine wired
    into a stereo (home or auto) via the line out, its headphone amp
    has a tendency to clip at high outputs, which tend not to be that
    loud in the first place if your headphones are a bit inefficient.
    Doing an A/B test on a D-5 with the same disc and headphones has
    shown the Sony to clearly have the cleaner (and stronger) headphone
    amp.

    I have had the Sony CDXR7 (AM/FM/CD unit) in my car for almost a year.
    I have been very satisfied.  Actually I have had three in the car: 
    
    The first one was installed at the end of last summer.  I couldn't
    stand the FM and cassettes left a lot to be desired after listening to
    home CD.  I decided that I needed FM, so the CDRX7 was the only choice.
    I don't own a portable player (yet). 
    
    In Flamingham (at the El Torito on Rt. 9) the CDRX7 was liberated along
    with my passport and half my dash at lunchtime.  BTW, the dipstick who
    committed this sin left the tuner pack in the dash, so the head unit is
    pretty worthless; its probably in some trash can somewhere outside of a
    pawn shop.  The moron did get my Dire Straits Brothers In Arms CD. I
    don't know if he (1) know it was in there or (2) could get it out of
    there without damage to the CD.  At least he didn't take my amps and
    speakers.  Moral: never leave your Passport in sight. 
    
    Anyway, to get the car repaired ($1800 damage) included a new
    dashboard, window, shift knob, several switches, rewiring, and of
    course I would need another CDRX7.  MP's Electronics World (also in
    Flamingham, near Shoppers Whirl, 879-8600) is where I got the origional
    CDXR7.  After calling around they still had the best price, but none in
    stock.  However they did have a number of reconditioned units that came
    with full factory warranty for $399 so I got one to have re-installed
    in my dash.  I was a little concerned with getting a factory unit but
    since the savings was $100 over their "new" CDRX7 price I decided to
    chance it. 
    
    I know that this is sort of like bringing eggs to a restaraunt and
    telling them to make be breakfast, but the shop where I had the work
    done only sells the Alpine CD players, and I wanted another Sony.  When
    I picked up the car I was sad to find that the reconditioned unit
    wouldn't load discs.  It would seem that the shipping screw was not
    replaced at the factory and the shipping around the country had made
    the loading hardware lock its jaws.  Back to MP's, got another
    reconditioned unit and an apology. Swapped it in the parking lot, and
    it works fine. 
    
    I didn't want a portable in the car since there isn't really a good
    place to put it and I feel that the car units are better equipped to
    handle the car environment.  Also I knew that I didn't really need
    cassette in the car.  It is impractical for me to put all of my
    CDs on cassette since I listen to CDs exclusively at home, and taping
    all of those CDs would be time consuming and expensive (165 or so
    CDs).
    
    As it turns out I almost never listen to the FM (or the AM) either, but
    it is nice to have it there incase I don't bring enough CDs along for
    my journey.  I haven't had any CDs delaminate or otherwise get damaged
    by leaving them in the car (yet). In fact I tried to make one that I
    didn't like crap out by leaving it in the other car on the rear parcel
    shelf.  I would reccomend a CD car player to just about anyone with
    more than 10 CDs. 
    
    GAS
    
    GAS

    Re: .7
    
    Does MPs Electronics World carry many Sony or other, reconditioned
    units ?    That was $399 for a reconditioned edition of the Sony 
    unit that Lechemere has had on display for a year but cant figure 
    out how to hook up ?     Gee, maybe there is hope for the boat yet
    (next year - the EPI LSR-24 head/Bose 1401 amp-speakers set us back
    enough this year).    Oh yeah, any idea how the CD works if the
    input voltage drops into the 11VDC range ?
    
    Thanks,
    Walt

    I think they carry other reconditioned units but you should call
    them as they tend to come in and out based on whatever Sony gives
    them.  That was $399 for the CDRX7, the "new" price there is $499,
    and yes its the same one Leachmere has for $699.  
    
    I have had no problems running the CDRX7 at all- it even plays right
    through starting the engine, which I would assume drops the voltage
    down a could of volts.  There are two external boxes that connect to
    the DIN sized head unit: the "tuner" pack which houses the AM/FM
    electronics, which is about half the size of the head unit, and a
    "power" box which apparently contains a dc-to-dc converter to insure
    that the player elecrtonics get nice regulated power.   The power box
    gets warm to the touch after the unit has been playing CDs for a while.
    
    I have Linear Power amps, a Linear Power "Bass Vent" subwoofer,
    and ADS 320i (front) and ADS 300i (rear) speakers. 
    
    GAS

    I just got a Harrington catalog and they are advertising a CD player
    adapter that works through your tape player.  It works like the
    FM adapters that they came out with for Walkmen.  You get a mock
    tape which has a female phone plug in it.  You plug your CD into
    that.  Looking at the picture the unit might have problems with
    any casette player that totally encloses the tape.  The price was
    about $30.00.  Anyone seen or had any experience with them.  If
    anyone is interested in more information please mail at DARTH::SCHORR.
    

    Re .10:
        This CD adapter in the Harrington (sp?) catalog looks like the
    Recoton unit which lists for $19.95!
    				Steve

    Has anyone ever used this unit (Recoton) or the Parasound adaptor,
    or any other similar adaptor?
    
    What is the sound reproduction on these units?  Are they worth
    buying?
    
    /artie

    My fourth CDXR7 is suffering from what can only be described as
    crashes. (History: see .7; the third player I got broke twice and so I
    punted it for another new unit at MP's.)
    
    It has done this about 5 times in the last three weeks. The symptom is
    that you may or may not be playing a CD (usually I am playing a CD
    whenever I'm in the car).  The music suddenly stops and the device that
    makes the "fweep" keyclick goes on steady (beeeeeeeeeeeeeep).  During
    this time the time/station/track display is blank and none of the
    buttons operate (including the eject button). After 10-20 seconds the
    beeeeeeep stops, the thing apparently has rebooted itself since the
    time is set to 1:00, it forgot where it was playing on the CD, and all
    of the AM/FM presets are lost. 
    
    Has anyone else seen this with the Sony (or Alpine clone)?  It may be
    related to the cold weather; however I had no trouble with my origional
    unit last winter. 
    
    GAS It's_still_under_warranty

    In case anyone is still interested in the CD-RX7 - Entertainment
    Warehouse in the Pheasant Lane Mall in Nashua has a pile of these
    for something like $379 each.
    					Steve

    Re: .0
    
    If you still want schematics for the Proton 222, I have them.  I
    also have them for the Proton 250 and the Proton 2-mumble-mumble
    car graphic equalizer.  I've been burned once already buying car
    audio from a supposedly large company, who then went out of business
    and left me with a broken amp, no service reps, and no service info.
     So, when I got the Protons, I called and got service manuals for
    everything!!
    
    BTW, Proton is a pretty good company to get service info from. 
    The manuals are $5.00 each, plus postage.
    
    Now...
    
    I also had a D5 in my car, and had really good luck with it.  BUT,
    when I retired my Toyota Celica and got the Scaab 900, I decided
    to get a cuspier CD player, so I opted for an Alpine 5900 (?). 
    I haven't installed it yet (I'm still trying to figure out a place
    for the 3 Proton 250s in the cramped quarters of the Scaab!!) but
    I at least hooked it up to see that it worked...
    
    I'll install my CD player sometime in late Jan. or Feb., and I'll
    keep everyone posted as to how it goes (for those who care!! :-)
    :-) )
    
    					Vernon Miller
    

    re .15: You mean the Alpine 8900?  (am/fm/cd?)  Its the same as the
    Sony CDXR7; the head unit is all Sony (and I think the tuner might be
    all Sony too).  The Alpine 8902 is supposed to be mad by Alpine
    themselves (including an Alpine tuner section).  This information was
    supplied to me about 2 months ago by a Alpine dealer.
    
    GAS 

    No, it's the Alpine 5900 (I even got it right without looking!!
    :-) :-) ).  It's CD only; no tuner.  I opted for that one for three
    reasons;
    
    1) The review in Digital Audio showed it to have the features I
    wanted.
    
    2) I don't really use a tuner anyway (I have one in the car now,
    and I hardly ever use it).
    
    3) According to a local dealer who sells Alpine, the return rate
    for the 8900 (?) (the one that has the tuner) is substantially higher
    than for the 5900 (CD only).
    
    					Vernon
    

Well, rather than try to wire my AM/FM Casette to allow for CD inputs, I
purchased a Concord HPL-550 because it has the RCA phono-type inputs in
the back for easy connection to a portable CD.  I did, and wired it through
the front console of my Jetta.  Sounds great!  However, my Sony D-77
didn't appreciate the car's somewhat firm suspension and kept skipping
like crazy (it took about 15 minutes to get through a four minute track).

I solved my tracking problem by placing the D-77 over a sightly inflated
Ziploc baggie.  I would put just blow it up, tighten the seal, put the
unit on the bag, and away I go!  Whenever I hit a bump, the CD player
just rolls around like it was jello, but never misses a beat as the air
in the bag absords the shock quite nicely.

AAA (which doesn't mean I listen to purely analog CDs)

    re: .18
    
    That is THE best justification for putting airbags in cars ;-).

Reviving an old note here......

I have a friend who wants to get a car AM/FM/CD player for her 
husband for Christmas. Does anyone have comments/opinions/suggestions
as to what to get, where to get it, and where to have it installed?
(Anywhere in eastern MA would be appropriate.)

Things to consider - features? price? quality? specs? ease of installation?
                     anything else you can think of.....

thanks for any response....

Alan S.