T.R | Title | User | Personal Name | Date | Lines |
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576.1 | | AYOV28::MDONNELLY | Turn that jungle music down | Fri Jan 05 1990 15:53 | 12 |
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>> Are New Kids on the Block the LEAST TALENTED GROUP OF PRATS ON EARTH?
Possibly after Depeche Mode (post VC).
Michael
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576.2 | Soooooooooooo WHAT! | YUPPY::WILDERD | The Wild Thing | Fri Jan 05 1990 18:00 | 24 |
| RE -1 & -2
Who cares really ?
I'm sorry if anyone doesn't agree with me but I joined this file
for the appreciation of music (all types that I'm interested in).
AND for interesting information.
Who gives a fig if so-an-so's better than 'oo-jar' !
Yes I admit that I have got involved in "justifying MY TASTE" but
no more. If you read my general album reviews (Elton John etc)
you will see what I'm getting at . I didn't even buy some of them,
my other half did, but that doesn't mean the review is damning
because the material isn't my choice. Lets be FACTUAL AND INFORMATIVE.
I'm SURE I will PROBABLY never buy any "New Kid's" material as
it Probably is aimed at the younger listeners/or is just not my
'type' of stuff! So what!
If you don't like, or don't have anything informative to say
about someone maybe you shouldn't bother.,e.g I don't enjoy Gary
Gillmour (sorry if I've mis-spelt that!) but your'e NOT interested
right?!!!!!
Let's have more GOOD reviews and info'.
David.
P.S: I DO enjoy the useful notes/info I just hate stagnant water!
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576.3 | Hung Up Down! | JUMBLY::OCONNOR | The Pope in the Silver Castle! | Sun Jan 07 1990 21:31 | 15 |
| David,
I appreciate what you're saying. It's fine with me too that
they're are 800 Brosettes wandering around Basingstoke wondering
whether this is Music class or Wogan...etc. i.e. everyone has
every right to listen to whatever they want to.
However, in exactly the same way we can all `sound off' about
music we find utterly vaucous and `sugar-sweet' (rot!) or
whatever. It's all part of God's Big Plan maaaan...
By the way *I* hate ELO, Clapton, The Eagles, Chicago
dirge-ballads, U2 (no comment!) and Fishy Marillion cods.
'Nuff said ??
- Tim
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576.4 | opp's (I think!) | YUPPY::WILDERD | The Wild Thing | Mon Jan 08 1990 13:13 | 17 |
| Mark, Michael an' Tim
Please don't take my last note as being rude ,it's not meant to
be and I wouldn't dream of denying ANYONE'S right of opinion or
speech! I just got frustrated and tired on Friday (had to go
home and kick the cat.) . So this is not taking back what I
said but to apollogise if it offended anybody.
David.
(before anyone says anything- I haven't got a cat!)
I kicked the neighbours.
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576.5 | | JUMBLY::OCONNOR | Nanci Griffith for Pope! | Mon Jan 08 1990 13:16 | 5 |
| No problem with me David. The more opinions in here the better.
All the best
- Tim
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576.6 | | CURRNT::SAXBY | Isn't it 5.30 yet? | Mon Jan 08 1990 15:31 | 18 |
|
No problem here either.
I find that a good way of extracting a response on something is
to start of with a (perhaps overly) contreversial opener (although
in this case I stick unreservedly by my first note).
No-one has put forward any argument against my initial statements,
which can only mean you either all agree or can't think of any decent
response to counter what I said, or that you don't really care.
I hope it isn't the latter as I would really like to try to understand
the popularity of groups as apparently devoid of ability as the
Brats. This isn't a new situation, but this particular group seem
to have got no popular support base (unlike the SAW factory), so
how have they achieved such rapid and great success?
Mark
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576.7 | | SUBURB::COLEJ | Something to offend Everyone | Mon Jan 08 1990 16:03 | 19 |
| Not trying to start a riot, but is there a note discussing hypeing
up of bands and groups these days, as a way of selling records.
If not it could be a good talking point, as it happens with all
music...
Without trying to offend anyone, it seems that marketing a group
OFTEN (not always) helps to manufacture sucess. Without trying to
ressurect any bitter infighting, I can for example, see a definate
parrallell with the Stone Roses and New Kids...
How could music coverage in magazines be informative and free of
hype...Any suggestions ? Do we need fewer Radio1 pluggers, more
indie labels or what ?
Opinions please ?
Juju
xxxx
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576.8 | | VOGON::ATWAL | Dreams, they complicate my life | Mon Jan 08 1990 16:07 | 15 |
| re .6
They ARE backed by a producer (can't remember his name- quite famous american
tho').
Remember seeing an interview with them & their manager a couple of months ago,
they were talking about how they were formed etc...
Two were from a school band that were seen/discovered by their producer who
wanted to create a white band in the style of that other hasbeen kiddy (black)
group (from where Bobby Brown originates). So they were picked from there.
...Art.
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576.9 | A few vague thoughts? | SHAPES::FIDDLERM | | Mon Jan 08 1990 17:04 | 18 |
| re .7 HI There. I think an important point (and the difference
between New Kids and Stone Roses) is the line between a group who got
together thru a natural/organic process, and a group artificially
constructed as a straightforward profit-making exercise. New Kids seem
to fit into this last category, while Stone Roses are a group who have
been together a few years and have worked thier way up, and write thier
own songs. (Defending the Stone Roses - Bruce'll kill me!!!).
I think that marketing is another issue altogether. Pumping money into
a group does seem to help, but there seem to be a lot of groups
recieving this treatment, and very few actually make it. Perhaps, at
the end of the day, people only buy a record if they actually like it,
and all the money/marketing/hype only helps people to become aware of a
record in the first place. ( Not that I'm defending the prtactice
here).
Mikef
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576.10 | | BURYST::EDMUNDS | $ no !fm2r, no comment | Mon Jan 08 1990 19:16 | 11 |
| Perhaps one should bear in mind that the object of the exercise (from
the record company's perspective) is to make money and NOT necessarily
to make good music. Unfortunately there is no way that I can think of
to change that! The same is true of commercial radio stations: they
exist to make the shareholders money, not to provide balanced,
entertaining [et cetera] programmes. As an example of each of these,
look at Jive Bunny and - IMHO - Capital Radio (*was* excellent; now
prides itself on having the biggest listening figures for an
independent station in the UK).
Hype *does*, and always has and always will, sell records...
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576.11 | Loads of one hit wonders. | TASTY::JEFFERY | Ring Carlsberg Customer Complaints Dept. | Tue Jan 09 1990 11:36 | 9 |
| Also one of the other things about manufactured groups is that they don't seem
able to last very long at all. I can't think of one manufactured group that
lasted very long after the second album, except, for maybe the monkeys.
For the record company, however, this doesn't matter. They aim to get as much
as possible for the first album, and then ditch their 'discovery', and look for
someone else.
Mark.
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576.12 | I swings both ways | SHAPES::BROWNM | | Tue Jan 09 1990 16:14 | 52 |
576.13 | But, hey, what do I know? | HYEND::SCHILTON | When they said sit down,I stood up | Tue Jan 09 1990 16:30 | 23 |
| Not to sound cynical but:
>> a conspiracy to make money.
Isn't that what makes this world go round?
I agrred with basically everything you said, but to go one step
further, I find that we can't really blame the kids for perpetuating
the useless "music" that we're bombarded with. Its a vicious circle
really ... if that's the only thing they're presented with, then they
don't know what else they're missing, so they buy whatever they hear
most often. The powers_that_be see Record X is selling well, so they
produce Record X;2 - the producers aren't going to cut their own
financial throats by gambling on something new. It would mean giving
up that new 200 mile/hr. Jag they'd put a deposit on.
I do disagree with your final point, however. Anyone wanting to get
their music heard, wanting to stay true to themselves artistically,
should *not* "aim to crossover into <whatever> spectrum". In my book,
that's called selling out, jumping on the band wagon.
Sue
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576.14 | Dedicated to the memory of Bruce. | SUBURB::COLEJ | A boring Accountant........ | Tue Jan 09 1990 16:33 | 22 |
| For what it is worth, I think that it is a problem that people do
not hear an alternative to the chart music like Kylie for most of
the teenage years, when people are most influenced by the fasion
of music. I did not discover indie music intil I was about 17, about
4 years ago.
Perhaps it explains who so many people liked the Police as a group
for example, not that the music was so good (it was) but that compared
to much other music it was a million times more class.
However, much Indie music appeals to Niche's and not a broad enough
spectrum of people. I would not buy 80% of the music played on the
John Peel show for example, as Extreme Noise Terror, Lawnmower Death
and Co. doesnot appeal to me. Very few indie bands are accessible,
perhaps only New Order with their "dance music" and a handful of
others are appealing to enough tastes. Many people may even regard
the "Darling Buds " as a row compared to the blandness of the typical
S.A.W produce......A vicious circle indeed!
Juju
xxxx
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576.15 | The next coming is 4 years overdue! | CURRNT::SAXBY | Isn't it 5.30 yet? | Tue Jan 09 1990 16:44 | 21 |
|
The Police were probably one of the top two or three groups when
they were at their peak, but then the early eighties were a good
period for music. People did gamble on something new (after Punk
shook out all the old 70s dross), but things have slipped back again.
I remember reading an article some years ago which said that a new
musical trend occured every 7 years to shake out all the rubbish.
The trouble was the last one was due in 1986! It never arrived and
(with one or two exceptions) nothing new or influential has occured
since then.
Maybe it's a case of the commerciality of our society that very
few people really feel the need to challenge what's happening as
long as they can buy their new cars, and houses and Water shares.
After all, a contented society doesn't breed rebelious rock 'n'
roll groups does it? How would 'My Generation all own their own
houses and have company BMWs' sound? :^)
Mark
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576.16 | What Matty?!!! | YUPPY::WILDERD | The Wild Thing | Tue Jan 09 1990 16:53 | 13 |
| Matty dear chap you surely mean 'it swings both ways' and NOT
"I swings both ways" !!
I'd be careful with your typing if I were you !! 8^)
As far as I can see it's always been pretty much the same . Wasn't
Micky Most the "SAW" of earlier years?
AS long as it stays this way we will have the Indie "culture"
producing bands who supply us with alternative fodder. Imagine
if every band had the "chart focus" yuk.
Then again aren't SAW's recordings classified as being "Indie"
8^)
David
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576.17 | Awful joke, but then again.... | SUBURB::COLEJ | A boring Accountant........ | Tue Jan 09 1990 17:06 | 7 |
| >>> Then again aren't SAW's recordings classified as being "Indie"
a saw point !
Juju
xxxx
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576.18 | let's go | ISLNDS::ROBINSON | Gravity's Rainbow | Tue Jan 09 1990 18:14 | 14 |
|
re .1
> >> Are New Kids on the Block the LEAST TALENTED GROUP OF PRATS ON EARTH?
> Possibly after Depeche Mode (post VC).
> Michael
Well Michael statements like the above demonstrate your profound ignorance
of both groups. Maybe your confusing 'taste' with 'talent'...
will
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576.19 | | CURRNT::SAXBY | Isn't it 5.30 yet? | Tue Jan 09 1990 18:43 | 6 |
|
Re .18
Brave words, but can you substantiate them?
Mark
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576.20 | ......... | YUPPY::WILDERD | The Wild Thing | Tue Jan 09 1990 18:52 | 2 |
| R A T H O L E !
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576.21 | Rathole?No, it just needs guidance. | CURRNT::SAXBY | Isn't it 5.30 yet? | Tue Jan 09 1990 19:18 | 20 |
|
Re .20
W H Y ?
:^)
Seriously, though, why does the writer of .18 think that the Kids
have talent (or did I misunderstand AGAIN!)?
I could tell everyone that Kylie is the greatest (well she is isn't
she?), but unless I tell you it's because of her stunningly strong
vocals and deep soulful interpretation of the lyrics (I SHOULD be
SO lucky!) it's just my opinion and you can't argue with it or
discuss it.
This note could easily become a rathole, but until .18 it seemed
to be doing quite nicely as a discussion.
Mark
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576.22 | | SUBURB::COLEJ | A boring Accountant........ | Tue Jan 09 1990 19:36 | 28 |
| Taste is personal...I like blue shirts, but I do not say pink ones
are less well made!
Seriously, until recently, I did'nt believe hyping could be all
that sucessful, I mean, I still listen to my Adam & the Ants records,
and ok may be a bit naff, but the music is still good, with a
surprisingly heavy overtone to the music. Hovever, I believed even
with the hype, that the band were good.
The housemartins, a group that I feel were underhyped deliberatly,
but still I feel tallented.
But where will New Kids be in 2 years time ? Massive i imagine!
But in 5 years ? Even the latest Bros records to my mind do not
seem to be shaking the chart like they did....
And how about people Like Rick Astley, o.k i do not like the style
ect, but he CAN sing, holds his notes, sings in tune and all. People
with talent like Rick do deserve the fame ect they get. Singers
are like houses, if the foundations are steady, the house ought
have a long life, if the foundation is week, no amount of hype will
prevent it from collapsing!
Juju
xxxx
Steering the discussion back...
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576.23 | "Guide me" | YUPPY::WILDERD | The Wild Thing | Tue Jan 09 1990 19:42 | 10 |
| Mark,
Point taken.
Is the discussion about 'pre-packaged' vers 'naturally-formed'
bands or which band is better/worse that 'Kids'?
I saw a picture of them today -- aren't they SO YOUNG!! Are they
linked to Janet Jackson's producers/musicians?
David
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576.24 | How about.. | CURRNT::SAXBY | Isn't it 5.30 yet? | Tue Jan 09 1990 19:48 | 18 |
|
Take it where you like as long as it isn't down a rathole! :^)
My initial feeling was that the Brats are not very good (obviously
a matter of taste), but have achieved massive success in this country
with little or no exposure (no tour, no previous 'half-hit' singles,
no TV soap!). I don't believe that they are just what people want
to hear (there's nothing original about them) and they appear to
be aimed at the teenage girl market (hence my comparisons with the
Osmonds and the Bay City Rollers), so how did they get so popular
so quick?
My suspicion is that they were hyped through the media (kids TV,
girls magazines, etc) before they even released a record here.
Cynical manipulation of a market indeed, if it's true.
Mark
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576.25 | "We're the kids in America wo oh!" | YUPPY::WILDERD | The Wild Thing | Tue Jan 09 1990 20:05 | 5 |
| I know they are HUGE in America , I was in New York in November
and heard them EVERYWHERE! I do remember seeing their faces on many
posters, thinking back, but never linked the two!!
David.
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576.26 | | HYEND::SCHILTON | When they said sit down,I stood up | Tue Jan 09 1990 20:16 | 7 |
| They are rather popular here in the Boston area because they're
local kids, so I don't really know how widespread their popularity
is.
I was surprised to see them so high up the British charts a couple
weeks back. (Shouldn't have been though, knowing the nature of
British pop - even worse than ours!! ;-))
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576.27 | | MACNAS::DKEATING | If a 6 were a 9 | Tue Jan 09 1990 22:55 | 8 |
| Forget 'New Kids On The Block' they don't come near our own 'Chip
Of The Old Block'...none other than....
D A N I E L O ' D O N N E L L
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576.28 | The worst band in the world is Big Fun - ahhhh! | SHAPES::BROWNM | | Wed Jan 10 1990 15:06 | 1 |
|
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576.29 | Swells reviews New Kids on the Block. | POBBLE::COTTON | The man with no personal name. | Wed Jan 10 1990 18:17 | 37 |
| This weeks NME singles are reviewed by Steven Wells, one of my favourite Muso
Journo's. He awarded "Hangin' Tough" the single of the week award. Mind you,
it was a joint winner with two other groups called Fudge Tunnel and The Child
Molesters, but that's just the kinda guy he is. Here's his review as I think
he's got some good points to make on this band, plus their ilk in general. I
suppose I ought to put the oblig. language warning though as he does swear a
bit, so.
OBLIG. LANGUAGE WARNING!
NEW KIDS ON THE BLOCK: Hanging Tough (CBS)
A single of the week because this record so *blatantly* illustrates what a
bunch of lilly-livered pig-ignorant vom-sucking vermin we have working in some
of our major record companies. Seems that they're too yellow (or too white) to
handle a black teen-orientated rap band and as a result have constructed an
ersatz versh so pink, pukey and ugly that they're not going to frighten anyone.
Mothers of America! Do not let your daughters listen to Negro music! I've
nowt against manufactured pop - The Monkees and the Rollers both created some
blissful listening and it must save those poor A&R men an awful lot of work -
but this is cheesiness verging on recism. We don't get to hear 99 per cent of
the good stuff being created by Black Americans and this cak is NOTHING more or
less than a blatant and obnoxious attempt to turn rap into a safe, *white*
commodity.
Nothing new in that but at least the Beastie Boys were able to add their own
equally gritty punk and metal leaning to the music they were co-opting. This
sounds like a metal-rap single put together by faceless accountants with
incredibly minute penises. On the sleeve, the boys appear dressed in bandanas
and hip hop gear: this isn't parody, it's pesticide.
This is Schooly D put together by the Blue Peter team. Champions of Black
Music often make the mistake of seeing the entire history of pop music as
whites ripping off blacks. Bollocks basically. Elvis and the Stones *added*
to their source music. *This* shit is the real problem. Inarticulate,
cack-handed and insulting kiddie porn. So blatant it's almost breathtaking.
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576.30 | | CURRNT::SAXBY | Isn't it 5.30 yet? | Wed Jan 10 1990 19:37 | 6 |
|
Re .29
True.
Mark
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576.31 | | SUBURB::COLEJ | A boring Accountant........ | Wed Jan 10 1990 23:40 | 9 |
| Don't stop millions from buying it though....
Dont forget, the N.M.E currently spend their life pushing the Stone
Roses, like they pushed the mary chain, and always are looking for
the "New big thing in indie world...."
Juju
xxxx
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