| T.R | Title | User | Personal
Name | Date | Lines |
|---|
| 29.1 | Axecaster General. | KERNEL::COHEN | Keep Music Live | Tue Apr 05 1988 20:14 | 24 |
|
Bit of a tricky one, this.
Bill Nelson is a very good guitarist, but it all depends what you're
looking for. He's melodic and plays a wider variety of guitar 'type'
instruments - not just your average Telecaster etc.
For me, it was always Blackmore - the man who was really saddled
with being the replacement for Hendrix, but no man could carry that.
Hear him playing a Gibson on the 'Concerto ...' album - totally
different to his later Fender playing. Problem was, that he did
have rather a big ego, and others found him tricky to get on with.
Page also was a fave.
Tony, being a HM fan, you are probably slightly biased in their favour
- I mean, what actually makes a good guitarist. It's all very
subjective stuff, and I think it's hard comparing players of different
styles/music types.
Thoughts?
David.
|
| 29.2 | Not all axemen are Metal | SUBURB::SUMMERFIELDC | Wide-angle watcher | Tue Apr 05 1988 22:16 | 18 |
| In the HM/HR field I think you missed Alex Lifeson of Rush. Another
one is Yngwie Malmsteen. Also Stevie Ray Vaughn, Steve Morse
In the non HM/HR field how about the following:
Al Di Meola
John McClaughlin
John Williams
Kevin Peek
Mike Oldfield
I think that it is pop that is really lacking, and not just in good
guitarists. Axemen are almost by definition exclusively linked to
HM/HR, whereas guitarists are more generic.
Balders.
|
| 29.3 | more madnes.... | RDGE00::DALLISON | | Wed Apr 06 1988 13:45 | 29 |
|
Hi Dave and all,
I agree I could (well, all right, I AM) be biased
towards HR/HM guitarists but my tastes are not
limited to HR/HM music. There are lots of
non-pop but non-metal good guitarists (Clapton -
The Edge and Chris Rea [sp?] to name but a few)
but `pop' music doesn't have that many (I can't
think of any names at the mo.).
Ritchie Blackmore was (or is - whats he doing
now?) a v.good guitarists but he was too
eccentric_a_player for the general music
audience.
Axe men is a more MH specific term - but I was using
it more as a nickname rather than a clarification.
Can anyone think of any good _pop_ guitarists?
What about session playrs?
Kind Regards
-Tony Dallison
BTW - I would have included Yngwie Malmsteen - but I
can never remember how to spell it1 ;-)
|
| 29.4 | Whats POP ? | MUNEDU::LACEY | Car Crash Sensation | Wed Apr 06 1988 14:41 | 18 |
|
Depends what you mean by *pop* but how about....
Brian Setzer of Stray Cats
Roddy Frame of Aztec Camera (Doug where are you ?)
Charles ? of Simple Minds
The guy from Lloyd Cole and the Commotions
Billy Duffy (before The Cult)
To name but a few....
Grub Tim...
|
| 29.5 | Another two (just) | SUBURB::SUMMERFIELDC | Wide-angle watcher | Wed Apr 06 1988 17:12 | 9 |
| Another *pop* guitarist is whatsisname Taylor of Duran Duran. People
seem to rate him quite highly. Hard to think of any others though.
Midge Ure, he gets about a bit. Difficult to view him as anything
other than competent though.
This is a real head scratcher :-)
Balders
|
| 29.6 | Lick it up.. | SUBURB::DALLISON | Tony Dallison @RDL 1-E | Wed Apr 06 1988 17:33 | 22 |
|
.4 - What was Billy Duffy doing before the Cult?
.5 - Andy Taylor - I've got his first solo album "Thunder" which
is quite good. Taylor is a good guitarist and he played some good
stuff with the Power Station. BTW - Andy Taylor is working on an
album with Rod Stewart at the mo (so I heard).
Midge Ure? Hmmm - hadn't really thought of him.
As for The Edge - well I'm sure he is a competent guitarist but
what I've heard of U2's music doesn't really reflect it.
Mark Knoppler is another v.competent player as is ex-Europe
whatshisface-Norum (John?).
Don't you just hate those people who hold a guitar for the sake
of it???????? (Eg, Paul Stanley of Kiss and (arghh! dare I say it)
Jam Bun Jovi.
Kind Regards
-Tony Dallison
|
| 29.7 | Return of the Duck | REPAIR::EDWARDS | Moshduck strikes again | Wed Apr 06 1988 17:33 | 11 |
| Hi there Tony, it's me again. I agree that all the real guitarists
are in the HM/HR field, and all those listed so far are excellent
examples of true axe heroes. A few more to add to the list would
be;
Kerry King-Slayer
Kirk Hammett-Metallica
Whatsisname-lead on Phantom of the Opera(Maiden)
Keep the faith,
Darron
|
| 29.9 | This was not my idea | REPAIR::EDWARDS | Moshduck strikes again | Wed Apr 06 1988 17:36 | 2 |
| I've been asked if anybody out there remembers *Tony McPhee* from
the Groundhogs.
|
| 29.10 | Not the Soap - The Film. | PUGH::MATT | Matt le Ratt | Wed Apr 06 1988 17:52 | 7 |
|
I think that the film 'Crossroads' (average film,quite good imitation
guitar playing) sums up this topic.
Personally I think that Alex (from Rush - can't spell surname) is
the best guitarist around at present.
Matt.
|
| 29.11 | I remember | LARVAE::DSM | Nigel Barker | Wed Apr 06 1988 17:55 | 11 |
| 29.12 | Who cares? | RDGENG::MACFADYEN | Roderick MacFadyen | Wed Apr 06 1988 18:10 | 10 |
| What's the big deal about guitar heroes? The great thing about Punk
was it cut through all that crap about "who's the best guitarist"
- but not forever, it seems.
I really don't like all this stuff about elevating people to hero
status just because they play guitar. The music a band plays comes
from all of them, not just one, so listen to the music, not just
to the guitar.
Rod
|
| 29.13 | Yep ... | KERNEL::COHEN | Keep Music Live | Wed Apr 06 1988 19:10 | 17 |
|
RE: .3
Agree.
Pop guitarists, being 'pop' are not centre stage in their respective
bands, eg. are Abba known for their guitar players etc. This could
be the basic problem.
Hard rock is more about individual players and styles - that's why
a lot of the top axe men are more HR/HM oriented.
Jeff Beck, B.J. Cole (pedal steel) are amongst top craftsmen in
their field.
David.
|
| 29.14 | | SUBURB::DALLISON | Tony Dallison @RDL 1-E | Wed Apr 06 1988 21:57 | 23 |
|
re. >>29.10
Crossroads - thats not a bad film - "..theres only one blues man
in this town.." :-)
It was a while since I saw it but I could have sworn the axeman
at the burn out was Steve Vai (maybe wrong though). Had some good
blues riffs in it... (If anybody knows please put me out of my misery).
I haven(t heard much from the Rush ranks, but I hear
Alex_whats_his_sausage is good.
What about bass players?????
My top favs. include (but not limited to) Mark King, Gene Simmons,
Neil Murray and Jimmy Baine.
Any thoughts?
-Tony
|
| 29.15 | | CHEFS::HASTONM | Inna rubbadub style | Wed Apr 06 1988 22:00 | 20 |
| -< MH on HM >-
Always a perennial problem this question.
Guess it comes to what defines a *good* guitarist from the merely
competent? Range of Styles, technique, Expression?
I'm probably going out on a limb (or perhaps about to lose one!)
by saying that HM Axemen(or women) don't score on Two of the above
counts. Not that I'm against HM {uh, uh} but the format of the genre
precludes too much in the way of delicacy e.g. Time or Key changes
HM tho' is *good* at: Searing lead bursts + playing so LOUD that
yer ears bleed.
My vote for best Guitarist (to-day at any rate) would go to Clapton
before he got "soft" and in particular to his efforts on "Crossroads"
{no, not the soundtrack} & "Spoonful" on 'Wheels of Fire'. These
tracks, especially the latter, display all the qualities mentioned
above. More so as all the band are improvising!
M
|
| 29.16 | Fast and Accurate | WARSAW::ENGINEERS | | Wed Apr 06 1988 23:47 | 15 |
| To get back to 29.0,fast and accurate guitarists (note the correct
spelling) are not necessarily 'better' than any other guitarist.
Technically maybe,but what's the point of having a fast and accurate
piece of music if it sounds a load of rubbish. You could progamme
a sequencer to play a piece of music faster and more accurately
than humanly possible but that doesn't mean it will sound any good.
I agree totally with 29.12. Punk music was played by some pretty
technically incompetent musicians but together they created the
most exciting sound for years.Of course it all comes down to personal
taste;if you like fast accurate music,but aren't particularly bothered
what it sounds like then I would guess that HM is for you. However,SOME
HM songs manage to end up sounding quite nice. Must be the ones
where the fast and accurate guitarist had the day off.
Cheers - Phil.
|
| 29.17 | What about..... | SUBURB::MCSHANEG | Alas poor Yorik!!....I knew him well | Thu Apr 07 1988 13:44 | 5 |
| Nobody ever heard of Robin Trower ?
Closest to Hendrix I've ever Heard....
Gary
|
| 29.18 | The real Boss | MUNEDU::LACEY | Straight to Hell | Thu Apr 07 1988 14:37 | 9 |
|
Billy Duffy before The Cult was in Theatre of Hate.
Bass players The guvnor is Robbie Shakespear.
Tim....
|
| 29.19 | Just makin' love to ma axe.... | SUBURB::DALLISON | Tony Dallison @RDL 1-E | Thu Apr 07 1988 15:39 | 23 |
| 29.20 | spaghetti for everybody | SHIRE::DIPAOLO | | Thu Apr 07 1988 19:58 | 7 |
| I'm a bit surprized that no one has mentionned :
Eddie Van Hallen and Steve Steven's (ex-Billy Idol's lead guitar)
They are just great.....
Ciao - Renato
|
| 29.21 | Com' 'ere there's Moore... | SUBURB::DALLISON | Tony Dallison @RDL 1-E | Thu Apr 07 1988 20:18 | 22 |
| 29.22 | | WARSAW::ENGINEERS | | Thu Apr 07 1988 23:39 | 11 |
| I always used to think how wonderful Ritchie Blackmore was and how
could he play so fast until I heard Al DiMeola.
I also remember very well watching a "Jazz on 4" concert some time
ago. The concert was at the Albert Hall and was given by three
guitarists namely John McClaughin, Larry Coryell and Paco de Lucia.
The speed of their playing was fantastic.
I still listen to Blackmore but his playing is in its infancy compared
to that of those mentioned above.
Kevin
|
| 29.23 | Segovia - spanish heavy metal? | GYPSC::CHISHOLM | Dem Tambourines! | Fri Apr 08 1988 13:15 | 20 |
|
Heartily agree with .22
Two albums I can recommend are "Passion, Grace and Fire" with
John McLaughlin, Al Di Meola and Paco De Lucia playing together,
and "Acoustic Colours" with the above plus Larry Coryell, Baden
Powell and the amazing Los Romeros, both on the Philips label.
To answer .0 I think it's because the guitarist is more important
in 'Heavy' bands than 'Pop', but this does not necessarily make
them better, as mentioned previously Knopfler, Clapton, Frame,
Cray, Peek, Williams et al are bloody good players, because
they *practice*.
Reputations can be built on very little, I mean Hank Marvin
is supposed to be a great Guitarist, but I certainly haven't
heard it in any of the Shadows stuff, which even a very ordinary
payer could manage (as long as he got the dance right!).
Doug.
|
| 29.24 | dum de dum de dum de dum, dum dumdum dumdum dum | SUBURB::DALLISON | Tony Dallison @RDL 1-E | Fri Apr 08 1988 14:01 | 13 |
|
re.23
>> ...because they practice...
All guitarists must practice to some extent. Doesn't matter if they
happen to be thrash metal or folk music - they still HAVE to practice.
(Having said that I agree about Hank Marvin - did they audition
him as a dancer first??? ;-)
Kind Regards,
Tony Dallison ye metal_head
|
| 29.25 | Speedy!! | KERNEL::COHEN | Keep Music Live | Fri Apr 08 1988 14:11 | 6 |
|
McCloughlin certainly has the reputation for being one of the fastest
players ever. His work with his Shakti outfit is also interesting.
David.
|
| 29.26 | i make time (cough) | VANISH::CROOKSTON | Don't throw the 'R' away !!! | Fri Apr 08 1988 14:25 | 9 |
|
I thought that Tom Schultz's playing on Boston's first two albums was brill.
Can't comment on the third as I've not heard that one.
They quite amazing to see in concert aa well. To see Tom reproducing all
those wonderful sounds, and the bass player (forget his name) was something
else. He bobbed about like a bass playing Angus Young. Extraordinary.
TC
|
| 29.27 | some faves | HAMPS::SMITH_S | Back in the saddle again !! | Fri Apr 08 1988 16:05 | 18 |
|
A few I enjoy listening to:
Slash from Guns 'n roses
Steve Ray Vaughan
Trevor Rabin now with Yes his solo stuff,in particular "cry wolf"
Ricky Medlocke when he was playing with blackfoot
Jeff Beck
E.C
Ted Nugent
George Lynch (although after seeing him live with dokken I'm in
two minds about him,great on record though)
Carlos Santana
steve.s
|
| 29.28 | Heavy Metal Lives | REPAIR::EDWARDS | Moshduck strikes again | Fri Apr 08 1988 17:36 | 7 |
| Aside from guitarists, there's a good HM topic on another music
conference.
DREGS::MUSIC gets you in.
Keep the faith,
The Duck
|
| 29.29 | My Record's Stuck.... | GAOV08::DKEATING | Not all that shivers is cold | Fri Apr 08 1988 17:42 | 10 |
| re last
I'm having problems with the DREGS::MUSIC conference.The most recent
note i can access is dated sometime last March.I know they had disk
problems around that time and moved up to Version_3 (?) ,it looks
like I'm at V_2 still !!!. Any quick and easy suggestions on how
to get into the latest version.
Thanx,
-Dave K.
|
| 29.30 | | GYPSC::CHISHOLM | Dem Tambourines! | Fri Apr 08 1988 17:59 | 8 |
|
Yup, I had the same problem, the recommended method "MOD
ENTRY/FILE=xx" didn't work, I suspect because the filename
was the same, so I just deleted the entry and then
put it back in again, this was just after the reincarnation
so there weren't too many notes.
Doug.
|
| 29.31 | Pop guys are up there | FORTY2::ETHERIDGE | | Fri Apr 08 1988 20:17 | 23 |
| re .0
"Chord changes have to be faster"
Ill grant you this, but when you have to move 1 finger holding down
2 strings to 2 other strings then it does make life easier. I mean,
even I sound good when I do that. :^) You'd be surprised (or you might
not be) at how many popular HM bands do this (or used to when I
listened to it) because its easy and effective and certainly not
difficult, as only partial chords are played.
As for pop bands and guitarists; I saw a programme on tv about
It Bites recording an album, and from what I saw, the guitarist with
them was certainly competent enough to take on a complex lead line.
My point is that that I have no doubt that guitarists with the better
pop bands could throw flesh all over the fretboard and equally guitarists
from the worse HM bands probably couldnt. The pop guys dont do it
simply because its at odds with their style of music.
I agree with the sentiments expressed on punk.
'Okay so we know he's not _that_ good but hes sounds pretty good doesnt he!"
Ian
|
| 29.32 | A strange business this noting | REPAIR::EDWARDS | Moshduck strikes again | Mon Apr 11 1988 11:55 | 10 |
| Re: DREGS::MUSIC music conference.
Yes, V3 is the latest version to hit the streets.
Now that I have V3, I can't seem to get into V2 anymore. I
know that the filname for V3 is slightly different but, as I
can't access V2 I am unable to help, except that the new
name may be MUSIC. or something like that.
Keep the faith,
The Duck.
|
| 29.33 | | SUBURB::DALLISON | Tony Dallison @RDL 1-E | Mon Apr 11 1988 13:05 | 6 |
| 29.34 | Heres one maybe two :^) | FORTY2::ETHERIDGE | | Mon Apr 11 1988 14:46 | 28 |
| re. -1
Listen to AC/DC some time. A classic example is 'Let There
Be Rock'. Listen to it. They arent playing full chords with all
the high strings, no no no, theyre playing all those big chunky
strings up the top. And why not. If they played all the strings
it would be called punk and everyone would have to put gel in their
hair, wouldnt they? *:^)
Also Saxon in (that tune of theirs) Wheels of Steel and Deep Puurple
in Smoke On The Water. You know the bit, Ner Ner Ner, Ner Ner Ner
Nerr, Ner Ner Ner , Nerr Ner Ner. Yes its two strings. Ive tried
it and its how he did it. I could go on with examples forever except
that I cant remember any. I must point out here that I dont care
how people make the noise, its what it sounds like, and this partial
chord method is particularly effective.
I replied to you saying that chord changes are facilitated by the
playing of partial chords. I mean, why plaster your fingers allover
strings your not going to play them - no need.
Anyway AC/DC pre Back in Black for definite are good examples. Dont
know about theyre more recent stuff. Okay so I said 'many popular
HM bands' when I meant the bands around 82 and 83 (you know the
NWOBHM et al, ha ha). One must presume that this practise is still
rife :^)
Ian
|
| 29.35 | We're all goin' onna summer holiday | FLOCON::CAMPBELL | Sydney opera house, perhaps?... | Wed Apr 13 1988 00:50 | 10 |
| Well it took you lot an awful long time to get round to "Fast Eddy"
and Carlos Santana! Nobody's mentioned Steve Lukather yet, another
brilliant guitarist.
BTW, hands off Hank, he's my hero an' I bought my Strat wivva wang-bar
so's I could be like him (after 2 years I went on to be a headbanger
though!)
Steve.
|
| 29.36 | Different strokes --- | OCTAVE::VIGNEAULT | The Central Scrutinizer | Wed Apr 13 1988 01:44 | 17 |
|
From what I've read in this note, it sounds like speed=great guitarist.
I beg to differ. There are different classes of guitar playing
each requiring their own unique degree of difficulty. A lot of
players can blow off blistering single note solos, but are lacking
when it comes time to cut chord stuff or rhythm comps. Howard Roberts
is a jazz guitarist who in *my* mind can put alot of HR/HM guitarists
to shame on a technical level, but his choice is in playing jazz.
Yngvie Malmsteen is indeed an execellent player, but he would feel
ill at ease in jazz territory as I'm sure George Benson would feel
in HM territory. As an allegory, the fact that I choose to read
non-fiction books doesn't make me any less of a good reader than
someone who chooses to read sci-fiction.
- Time to run - Larry
|
| 29.37 | ... different strings | SUBURB::SUMMERFIELDC | Wide-angle watcher | Wed Apr 13 1988 13:07 | 25 |
| I my humble opinion Great Guitarist = Can play fast +
Brilliant Technique +
Amazing sense of feeling +
Anything (but not dancing)
By this equation Hank Marvin will never rate higher than competant.
Top five guitarists:
John McGlaughlin
Al Di Meola
Steve Hackett
Steve Howe
Jimi Hendrix
Notice that none of these are HM, the demands of HM don't produce
brilliant guitarists, just a lot of very competant players. Those
HM axemen who are brilliant tend to be non-conformers ie they play
more than one style. The above five can cover plenty of different
areas especially Al Di Meola. Blackmore is a fantastic HM/HR guitarist,
but cant quite escape the restrictions of HM.
Apologies to HM fans everywhere
Balders.
|
| 29.38 | and theres more... | MUNEDU::LACEY | Straight to Hell | Wed Apr 13 1988 13:08 | 9 |
|
And what about the bloke Eric Clapton calls GOD...
The one and only Buddy Guy !!!!
Grub.
|
| 29.39 | Guy v Clapton / Clapton wins pick down ! | CHEFS::LAWSONM | Jesus is the RISEN SON of GOD | Wed Apr 13 1988 21:43 | 3 |
| Any one mentioned Joe Pass yet....
Got to be one of the ALL time greats
|
| 29.40 | Useless guitar fact #1 | SUBURB::DALLISON | But would *you* buy one? | Wed Apr 20 1988 13:48 | 14 |
|
I just read an article on Yngwie J Malmsteen and did you know that....
"Yngwie constructs the majority of his blinding lead breaks within
the limitless framework of 17th Century Baroque chord progressions,
similar to Blackmore...."
'nuff said....
Any guitar buffs care to explain?
KR
-T
|
| 29.41 | Clever ain't he | REPAIR::EDWARDS | In Moshing We Trust | Wed Apr 20 1988 17:14 | 1 |
|
|
| 29.42 | | WARDER::DORANA | Nothing a sawn off shotgun.... | Wed Apr 20 1988 19:55 | 7 |
| The best is/was/is Jimmy Page of Led Zep. I can add no more...
Another good guitarist is Brian May of Queen. Listen to their albums
up to JAZZ, and you will see what I mean. I thought I ought to mention
Brian as no-one else has...
Andy
|
| 29.43 | ...and she's buying a stairway to...... | SUBURB::MCSHANEG | Alas poor Yorik..I knew him well | Thu Apr 21 1988 14:11 | 12 |
| > The best is/was/is Jimmy Page of Led Zep. I can add no more...
Almost Agreed.
I think I'd put Jimi Hendrix 1st though.
The 'Song remains the same' version of Dazed and Confused
contains some weird/fantastic guitar playing with a violin
bow by Mr Page, greatr at full volume!
Gary
|
| 29.44 | WOW!! | REPAIR::EDWARDS | In Moshing We Trust | Mon Apr 25 1988 17:32 | 10 |
|
*ALL NEW*
Heavy Metal conference is finally here.
ADD ENT ANT::HEAVY_METAL
K.T.F.,
The Duck.
|
| 29.45 | | SUBURB::DALLISON | Tony Dallison @RDL 1E x:7830-5009 | Tue May 03 1988 13:17 | 7 |
|
re.44
The conference has moved - anyone know where to??????
Have a good onE
-Tony Dallison-
|
| 29.46 | | GYPSC::CHISHOLM | Dem Tambourines! | Tue May 03 1988 15:04 | 5 |
|
saw an entry in MUSIC about it, it could take up to
a week to move it, if I see anymore I'll let you know.
Doug.
|
| 29.47 | | SUBURB::DALLISON | Tony Dallison @RDL 1E x:7830-5009 | Tue May 03 1988 16:26 | 1 |
| Cheers :-)
|
| 29.48 | NEW CONFERENCE | REPAIR::EDWARDS | Munster Mosh(like an Egyptian) | Fri May 06 1988 12:01 | 8 |
| The heavy metal conference has moved finally, it's new location
is
HSSWS1::HEAVY_METAL
In Houston, Texas of all places!!
K.T.F.
Darron.
|
| 29.49 | just a little boogie band from Texas | SUBURB::DALLISON | pick a window, you're leaving | Fri May 06 1988 13:38 | 1 |
| Texas: ZZ Top territory and home of the Texas Jam.....
|
| 29.50 | Blues Guitars!!! | HPSVAX::FLANAGAN | No Summer Tour For Me :^( | Thu Jun 23 1988 01:30 | 8 |
| re .10
The film 'Crossroads' featured the guitar work of Ry Cooder
if you like blues and aren't familiar with him, check out some of
his stuff.
Kevin
|
| 29.51 | | HPSVAX::FLANAGAN | No Summer Tour For Me :^( | Thu Jun 23 1988 01:50 | 14 |
| There are a few others that I saw no mention of,
Rory Gallagher
Steve Stills
Jerry Garcia
and what about Roy Clark, He can play anything with strings
amazingly well.
I think that one of the most important marks of greatness is
the ability to play a number of different styles.
Kevin
|
| 29.52 | | SUBURB::DALLISON | The mad axeman | Thu Jun 23 1988 13:18 | 9 |
|
re.50
Yeah, I knew the slide guitarist was Ry Cooder. Did you know that
the Heavy Metal guitarist (at the end) was Steve Vai of the David
Lee Roth band. (Same Steve Vai who used to play with Frank Zappa
??)
Small world...
|
| 29.53 | See the pattern? | JUNIOR::CHILTON | Gumby & Pokey Rule! | Thu Jun 23 1988 18:44 | 6 |
| My list of the best:
EC
Albert Collins
Tommy K (Roomful of Blues)
Eddie Van Halen
|
| 29.54 | | HPSVAX::FLANAGAN | No Summer Tour For Me :^( | Sat Jul 02 1988 04:04 | 19 |
|
I honestly don't have any use for David "BIG EGO" Roth, therefore
I had no idea of who is/was playing guitar for him. You did bring
up the name of one of the other great guitarists though Zappa.
He can do amazing things.
As for personal favorites, I like Jerry Garcia, he may not be the
best at anything but he plays a lot of instruments nad styles.
I saw him break out the pedal steel last summer, hte first time
that he played it in public for ten years! He also has done some
bluegrass, with a band called "Old And In The Way" back in 73-4
playing the banjo is a very big change from the guitar.
While on stage with the other members of the Dead he goes from one
style to another every few songs.
Kevin
|
| 29.55 | A Palm Tree nodded at me last night... | RDGCSS::STONE | Distant, Alone, Beneath the platinum stars ... | Wed Jul 13 1988 19:01 | 9 |
| My favourite ( NOT necessarily the best, but one of)
Marty Wilson-Piper
I'll leave you all to work out who he is, what he plays, who
he plays for.... for the the moment anyway.
Graham
|
| 29.56 | | 45384::IBL | an Electric Monk on a bored horse | Wed Jul 13 1988 20:12 | 6 |
|
re:-1
Something vaguely religious, yes? The Choir? No?
Ian!
|
| 29.57 | NODE PROBLEM (HSSWS1) | AYOV16::MHOLLOWAY | | Wed Aug 03 1988 18:58 | 2 |
| HELP!
I CANT GET THROUGH TO THIS NODE, CAN SOME BODY PLEASE HELP!
|
| 29.58 | No need to SHOUT! | AYOV27::DRIVETT | | Wed Aug 03 1988 19:33 | 7 |
|
Try substituting 16839 for HSSWS1.
Hope this helps.
Dave.
|
| 29.59 | In my eyes ... | RAVEN1::JERRYWHITE | Don't worry, be >>HEAVY<< | Thu Oct 13 1988 12:08 | 19 |
| Being a heavy metal guitarist I had to throw my .02 cents worth
in here. Speed doesn't a great guitar player make. It takes speed,
style, and FEELING above ALL else. Most metal music is fast so
the feeling expressed is fast. That's why most metalfans feel speed
is better. Some good metal stringsmiths in my book are ...
Can't remember their names - Racer X
George Lynch - Dokken
Jake E Lee - Ozzy
Yngwie Malmsteen - Rising Force
Vito Brata - White Lion
Eddie VanHalen - VanHalen (the King !!)
Vivian Campbell - Dio/Whitesnake
..... the list goes on ....
Scary
... the list goes on ...
|
| 29.60 | and there it was ......... gone ! | UNTADG::ODIJP | Elefanten springen nie | Thu Oct 13 1988 12:25 | 4 |
|
BTW what *has* happened to the HM conference ?
John J
|
| 29.61 | | RAVEN1::JERRYWHITE | Don't worry, be >>HEAVY<< | Thu Oct 13 1988 12:34 | 6 |
| Let's say the level of b******t in the conference exceeded it's
quota. It will rise again after a breather. Heavy_Metal will
never die ... stay tuned !
Scary
|
| 29.62 | | ROSBIF::PHILIPPA | Cum give yer Ant Bunny a kiss | Thu Oct 13 1988 14:18 | 11 |
| My favourites:
Gary Moore - Thin Lizzy/GM Band
Adrian Smith/Dave Murray - Iron Maiden
Viv Campbell - Dio/Whitesnake
Yngwie Malmsteen
Eddie Van Halen - Van Halen
Jake E Lee - Ozzy
Slash - Guns N' Roses (Sooo much talent for someone so trashy!)
Philippa
|
| 29.63 | Welcome To The Jungle ... | RAVEN1::JERRYWHITE | Don't worry, be >>HEAVY<< | Thu Oct 13 1988 14:26 | 7 |
| re: .62
I'm not trying to start a war ... but why do you think Slash is
a good player ?
Scary
|
| 29.64 | | ROSBIF::PHILIPPA | Cum give yer Ant Bunny a kiss | Thu Oct 13 1988 15:42 | 7 |
| re -1
I like Slash because what he plays is original, he can hold a good
melody and when he plays fast you can still here the individual
notes....is that enough?
Philippa
|
| 29.65 | | SUBURB::DALLISON | a waffer fin mint ???? | Thu Oct 13 1988 18:03 | 15 |
|
Yo Scary, I too like most of the guitarists you've mentioned but
do you think that Malmsteen plays with *feeling*???
200mph yes...feeling no.
You want feeling ?? check out Chris Impelliterri.(sp?). He's got
an album out with Graham Bonnect (ex-Rainbow/Alcatraz) and he does
an real could cover of 'since you've been gone' and there's a good
instrumental on there 'over the rainbow'.
The band is called 'Impelliterri' and the album is called 'Stand
In Line'
-Tony
|
| 29.66 | | BONK::CHEQUER | illusion... fusion... dissolution. | Thu Oct 13 1988 19:31 | 2 |
| A talented Heavy metal guitarists is no better than any other talented
guitarists.
|
| 29.67 | | KERNEL::IMBIERSKI | Three views of a secret | Thu Oct 13 1988 20:49 | 23 |
| I can see this is going to blow up again so I thought I'd get my
2p worth in before its write locked.
Mr Scary in 227.106 informs us why musicians that play heavy metal
are better than the rest of us. I quote:
" It (HM) takes more practice to stay on top of than all other forms
of music combined."
Well personally I am insulted.
I am a jazz musician (bass player) and have been for ten years.
I practice bloody hard.
I don't play HM so that means Mr Scary is putting me down as a second
rater even though HE HAS NEVER HEARD ME PLAY!
Regular readers of my notes will know that I have tried to persue
a line of tolerance toward all musical forms (I was even praised
by one of the HM fans for understanding their point of view).
MR SCARY I ASK THE SAME TOLERANCE OF YOU!!!
Tony KML
|
| 29.68 | Ok, get pi**ed! | PIWACT::JMINVILLE | Dig It Up | Thu Oct 13 1988 21:01 | 11 |
| I agree with Chequer and Imbierski, to make a blanket statement
like that [Scary] is way, way out. I mean I doubt very much that
George Lynch would have any clue as to the theory behind what a
player like Miles Davis or John Coltrane does when they solo (I
could be wrong). Granted, a lot of HM players are absolutely
extraordinary, but I doubt one of them would make the statement
you made. I mean Julian Bream could blow Yngwie away.
Scary, ya'll are way outta line boy, y'hea?
joe.
|
| 29.69 | ..... and I play a real mean Air Guitar 8^) | EUCLID::OWEN | Yes Nukes, NO Dukes!!! | Thu Oct 13 1988 23:50 | 11 |
| Yea, I'm sorry, but I must agree that your comments, Scary, were
just a Weeeeeee little bit on the not so nice side.
In my opinion, the only point I wish to make here is this: I feel
that some Heavy Metal musicians, not just guitarists, are really
good musicians and not just noise makers. This is not to say that
they are better or worse than musicians of other types of music,
just to say that some of them are really good players and deserve
the respect that goes with those accomplishments.
Steve O
|
| 29.70 | No harm intended .... | RAVEN1::JERRYWHITE | Don't worry, be >>HEAVY<< | Fri Oct 14 1988 06:56 | 18 |
| re: .67
No insult intended ! I love jazz, and the musicians who perform
it are VERY talented. I don't play it so I can't truthfully say
how much practice it takes to be a good jazz player - quite a bit
I'm sure. I *am* a metal guitar player and I know what it takes
to keep my chops current, and my friend, there aren't enough hours
in the day. If I had said *YOU* aren't as talented as *I* then
I could understand your complaint. But I made a blanket statement
voicing my opinion with no malice intended .....
........ take a deep breath .....
...... AND SIT DOWN !!!!!!
Scary
|
| 29.71 | Again .... no harm intended !!!! | RAVEN1::JERRYWHITE | Don't worry, be >>HEAVY<< | Fri Oct 14 1988 08:25 | 17 |
| Also let's remember what we're talking about here ... "What makes
a good Heavy Metal musician ?" To compare the best of the metalworld
to the top players of ANY other form of music would be like comparing
apples to oranges. Feeling(#1) - Speed - Accuracy - Theory all make
up a well rounded musician of any form. Some may be stronger/weaker
in some suits over others. As long as it adds up to 100%, what
difference does it make ?
If my reply 227.106 insulted anyone, please accept my appologies.
We were talking Heavy Metal - I'm qualified :^) on that subject.
Scary
:^) x _____ <---- fill in the blank as needed to give me a break)
|
| 29.72 | FYI...FYI...FYI | TORA::KELLY | Frayed ends of sanity 291-9089 | Fri Oct 14 1988 17:28 | 6 |
|
Just to let everyone over here know IRDEV::HEAVY_METAL is back and
going strong.
Bk
|
| 29.73 | | YODA::COOK | The pleasure has been all yours! | Fri Oct 14 1988 18:03 | 7 |
|
The guitarist that can play jazz, metal, classical, and top 40 is
the best.
Any one style alone doesn't cut it.
/prc
|
| 29.74 | Those that I think are the best | SUBURB::BURKEG | It's Different For Girls... | Fri Oct 14 1988 20:16 | 25 |
|
IMHO
The guitarists that play what *I* like, In any style, at any speed,
be it with their fingers or their plo*kers, with any type of
instrument, with any type of sound system, with or without feeling
anyone or anything, high or not, whatever they are wearing, and
impress me with their ability, without being overly pretentious,
are the best.
but
thats
just
my
opinion
|
| 29.75 | | HAZEL::STARR | You ain't nothin' but fine, fine, fine! | Fri Oct 14 1988 20:54 | 13 |
| > The guitarist that can play jazz, metal, classical, and top 40 is
> the best.
> Any one style alone doesn't cut it.
IMO, not necessarily. I do admire the ability to play different styles
(one of the reasons I love Neil Young so much). But my favorite guitarist
is Eric Clapton, who is strictly a blues guitarist. While he may record
songs that have a pop feel, his actual guitar playing is blues oriented
from beginning to end. And yet, even though he is one-dimensional, I still
love it!
Alan S.
|
| 29.76 | <---- Yeah, what he said ... | RAVEN1::JERRYWHITE | Don't worry, be >>HEAVY<< | Sat Oct 15 1988 18:12 | 7 |
| Good point ! I like Clapton too but my likes tend to follow the
more technical/speed oriented styles like those of Gilbert/Boulet
of Racer X. It's not really a matter of who is BETTER, but who
you LIKE better. Variety truly is the spice of life !
Scary
|
| 29.77 | Crossroads - Tony Hatch ? | YUPPY::BENNETT | ridin' along in my LAVc | Thu Feb 09 1989 22:51 | 17 |
| Re .10/.14
Very Late I know, But important.
There is this guy, Arlen Roth who is a bit special in the guitar
field (played guitar on the Paul Simon African tour). He taught Ralph
thingy to PLAY guitar for most parts in the film Crossroads, 6 hours a
day for 3 months, a dedicated actor or What ?
Arlen also composed and PLAYED most of the blues guitar parts except
for the Steve Via guitar part in the dual scene and the openening
theme, which Ry Cooder played.
The reason I add this note is that I think Arlen Roth should get
due credit also can anybody teach me to play guitar like Ralph thingy
in 3 months !?
Graham ...
|
| 29.78 | You can learn from the man himself | WELMTS::GREENB | burning with optimism's flames | Wed Feb 15 1989 15:29 | 7 |
| Try Arlen Roth, Graham - you can get tutorial tapes by him for various
styles, including blues.....
I thought it was Ry who did the guitaring on most of Crossroads,
apart from the Steve Vai bit, seems like maybe it wasn't?
Bob
|
| 29.79 | y | BREW11::WICKETT | | Thu Feb 16 1989 15:25 | 21 |
|
Sorry to but in but i've read up reply 29
and none of you lot have mentioned.
1.) ulrik? roth
2.) rudolf shenker
3.) Mathias Jabbs
4.) Brain may
to mention but a few and by the way the scorpions are
by far the best HM band around..
i would like to know who you lot class as the worst Hm
guitarist is.......my nomination is.
CAIN ROBERTS...............
|
| 29.80 | | SUBURB::DALLISON | The Kitten has claws | Thu Feb 16 1989 16:42 | 17 |
|
Worst HM guitarists Cane Roberts ?
You must mean the guy whos built like a brick toilet and used to
play for Alice Cooper.
No, my worst guitarists goes to Mick Marrs (Motley Crud) and CC
Devile (Poison).
I quite like Rudolf Shenker, but I prefer his brother Michael MUCH
better. Jabbs is okay too, but some of the new Scorpions material
is pretty weak, so their guitar playing ability isn't reflected
on the stuff.
Again, all my humble opinion.
-Tony
|
| 29.81 | Django's Coming.... | YUPPY::OHAGANB | | Wed Jun 28 1989 17:20 | 11 |
|
Could'nt resist the temptation of joining in on this pissing contest;
be it very late. All this "H.M. guitarists are better" lark is the
sort of thing I used to say when I was part of the acne and dandruff
brigade. But, if we're all gonna stand in that guitarist toilet
comparing knobs then I'll have to go for Django Rheinhardt, a donkey
of a guitarist and he did'nt even have a full set of fingers!!.
Bazzer,
Loitering with intent.
|
| 29.82 | | CHEFS::DALLISON | Its Katching ! | Wed Jun 28 1989 19:35 | 1 |
| gigo
|
| 29.83 | ???!!! | YUPPY::OHAGANB | | Fri Jun 30 1989 14:58 | 4 |
| re .82
What!!!!????
|
| 29.84 | | CHEFS::DALLISON | Its Katching ! | Fri Jun 30 1989 20:07 | 1 |
| Garbage In, Garbage Out
|
| 29.85 | Sweet Poon-Tang!! | YUPPY::OHAGANB | | Fri Jun 30 1989 21:00 | 7 |
| Oooooohhhh!!!
Can I sense a little cat scratch fever!!????
|
| 29.86 | Wrong, wrong, wrong!!! | BUFFER::GOLDSMITH | I'm a Sun King baby! | Mon Sep 25 1989 21:09 | 25 |
| I just saw this note and although heated discussion is over, and I'm
not going to even bother reading the notes in this conference, I had to
leave a statement here.
To .0
That was the dumbest, most generalized statement I have ever heard. To
say that metal guitarists are better is just wrong. I love metal, and
it's mostly what I listen to, but to say that the guitarists are better
is just completely and totally wrong. First of all, to compare Eric
Clapton and Angus Young is not correct. Two different styles, etc...
I wouldn't even put Clapton in a hard rock category. Not for
comparison anyway.
Besides, metal guitarists, in general are (with the exception of
country guitarists) the worst musically out of any genre of music.
Look at most jazz, classical, and folk guitarists, who would blow
the pants off 99% of any metal axers.
Anyone who can move their fingers can finger-tap a solo. Whee!
I do agree that their are a few really excellent metal guitarists who
do have feeling and skill, but I can't express that generally like the
title statement of this note. I'm through now.
Steve
|
| 29.87 | Angus + God = Yawn (IMO) | SHAPES::HARRISONP | | Tue Sep 26 1989 12:05 | 6 |
| Re .86
You CAN compare Young and Clapton - they're both BORING!!! :^)
Paul
----
|
| 29.88 | | CHEFS::DALLISON | Cocked and Loaded | Tue Sep 26 1989 14:50 | 39 |
|
Wow, I've got somebody plenty pi$$ed by the sounds of it !! 8^)
lets stir up some controversy...
RE 29.86.
I was talking about the technical aspect of guitar playing.
The speed (AND just as importantly, accuracy) that Paul Gilbert,
Steve Vai, Joe Satriani, Yngwie Malmsteen, Chris Impellitteri,
Greg Howe, Vinnie Moore (etc...) play is second to none. They blow
away Clapton etc.. for technique (and I really like Clapton).
Whilst speed is not the deciding factor between a good/bad guitar
player it is a different matter when incorporating bends, slurs,
arpeggios, tappng (thats easy anyway - got to a local music store
on a Saturday afternoon and you'll see tons of 14 years olds doing
it), cross picking, sweep picking - all whilst playing at mach-10,
it shows the type of ability that the average popular guitar player
could only dream of.
The "performance" rock guitar player (like the ones mentioned above)
have a knowledge of theory, scales, picking, fingering, modes,
harmonies, structure and arrangement that would make Hendrix turn
in his grave !
My comment was not on their MUSIC as such (I don't particularly like
all the speed demons, I'd rather listen to Clapton or Page more than
Greg Howe for example) but technically they blow away any country,
folk, classical or blues guitar player I have ever seen, heard or
read about. I'm not saying that the rock guitar player has a monopoly
on the market, but the average rock guitarist would blow the average
popular guitar play clean out of the water.
But, then again, this is just one mans opinion.
-Tony
|
| 29.89 | | WELMTS::GREENB | Never the rose without the prick | Tue Sep 26 1989 15:14 | 9 |
| Technique shmechnique, you just have to *feel* a player like Peter
Green....
8^)
Bob
|
| 29.90 | YUCK! those nails! | CHEFS::DALLISON | Cocked and Loaded | Tue Sep 26 1989 15:48 | 2 |
|
Have to or HAD to ? 8^)
|
| 29.91 | purpler than the deepest purple | COMICS::ABELL | | Tue Sep 26 1989 16:12 | 7 |
|
re: last couple..
If we are talking guitar players then I'll take the last words....
And those words are Richie Blackmore...
|
| 29.92 | | CHEFS::DALLISON | Cocked and Loaded | Tue Sep 26 1989 16:36 | 5 |
|
Yeah, he was great in his time, but methinks DP are flogging a dead
horse now.
-Tony
|
| 29.93 | Hendrix is/was the man... | EGAV01::DKEATING | WANTED; Tamer lion, by lion tamer. | Tue Sep 26 1989 17:23 | 1 |
|
|
| 29.94 | | WELMTS::GREENB | Never the rose without the prick | Tue Sep 26 1989 19:10 | 6 |
| re .90, have to or had to....
Yeah, PG may be somewhat eccentric of late, but his playing lives
on.
BG (no relation)
|
| 29.95 | Hear, hear!! | HYEND::SCHILTON | When they said sit down,I stood up | Tue Sep 26 1989 19:15 | 3 |
| re.93
>> -< Hendrix is/was the man... >-
|
| 29.96 | | WELMTS::GREENB | Never the rose without the prick | Tue Sep 26 1989 19:23 | 22 |
| Serious department (for a minute)....
Now I won't dispute that for many, Hendrix was the man (I like him
too), but equally, for many others, Page/Malmsteen/Blackmore or
whoever is 'the man'.
Now me, although I listen to 'technical' guitarists, the ones I
like best are those who are saying something to me, or 'reaching
into themselves' (man) rather than just displaying a blinding turn
of speed, scale knowledge, etc. I just have to have some kind of
emotional response, rather than just standing in awe of something.
As such, although I can *appreciate* the speed players, I *love*
guitarists like Tom Verlaine, Robert Fripp, Chuck Berry, Martin
Simpson etc etc.
Tongue in cheek (slightly) department...
Talking of speedmerchants in HM being more proficient than, say,
folkies or country players - I never heard Albert Lee play no HM!!
Bob
|
| 29.97 | just another man's opinion | FLOCON::CHISHOLM | For better days, bring better ways | Tue Sep 26 1989 20:39 | 16 |
|
< Note 29.88 by CHEFS::DALLISON "Cocked and Loaded" >
> Greg Howe for example) but technically they blow away any country,
> folk, classical or blues guitar player I have ever seen, heard or
> read about.
heh heh heh, (or in Heavy Metal parlance agagagagagagag) you've
definately been drinkin', oder??, funniest note of the week, you
can tell how good someone is just by reading about them eh??
and now it's ROCK guitarists, not Heavy Metal eh??, away an' bile
yer heid!.
Doug (Spurtle)
|
| 29.98 | RE: Squirttle 8^) | CHEFS::DALLISON | Cocked and Loaded | Wed Sep 27 1989 16:12 | 2 |
|
Did you take English lessons at school my good man ?
|
| 29.99 | I'm not good, and I'm not yours, but I think I'm a man | FLOCON::CHISHOLM | For better days, bring better ways | Wed Sep 27 1989 16:48 | 1 |
|
|
| 29.100 | | CHEFS::DALLISON | Cocked and Loaded | Thu Sep 28 1989 16:06 | 5 |
|
>> < Note 29.86 by BUFFER::GOLDSMITH "I'm a Sun King baby!" >
>> -< Wrong, wrong, wrong!!! >-
Steve, nothing more to say ?
|
| 29.101 | Yeah...that was really cool. | BUFFER::GOLDSMITH | Do as I do, not as I say | Wed Oct 04 1989 21:17 | 23 |
| Alright, I'm back.
In retrospect, I think I may have been a little too firey when I wrote
that note. I didn't mean to offend anyone. I'm not apologizing for
what I said, of course. I don't know that I have a reply because we're
getting into another - "_______ rules!!" and "No, _______rules!!"
I was trying to avoid that. It happens to much in the H_M note.
I still think that if you were to say, "alright, Mr. Jazz, play a
rippin' lead", and give him a few minutes, he could come up with
something a lot faster than if you said, "alright, Mr. Metal, play
something that makes me go: Yeah... that was really cool."
Sure, there are metal solos that I say "Yeah...that was really cool",
but there are more that are just fast, which is nice and all, but
really nothing unique or spectacular. There are a lot more dudes
elsewhere that are playing more solos that I say "Yeah...that was
really cool."
And in my opinion, that is where its at. Did I say anything back
there? Or did I make no sense at all?
Steve
|
| 29.102 | Opps.. HOW should read WHO | CHEFS::DALLISON | Cocked and Loaded | Thu Oct 05 1989 12:17 | 22 |
|
Well, another point is that guitarists how "specialise" in the field
of classical or blues (or whatever) don't (often) try and incorporate
other styles into their playing.
You'd never see BB King kick on a distortion pedal and play at Mach-2
because the HM/rock genre has got such a bad name that guys like
him wouldn't want to be associated with the style. but players like
Randy Rhoads, Yngwie Malmsteen and Chris Impellitteri are HEAVILY
influenced by (or in some case taught fro MANY years) classical
guitar. Players like Greg Howe are heavily influenced by blues playing
and Zakk Wylde (Ozzy Osbournes new guitar player) are heavily into
Country and Western playing. And instead of sound like a mish-mash
of rubbish it sounds great. You'd never see Segiova grab a guitar
and start playing "Eruption" but its not surprising to see Eddie
Van Halen to grab a gut string guitar and play something by Segiova.
Edward Van Halen made playing the guitar stylish again. As far as
I can see the guy has done the music industry a real favour. What
would you rather see, some guy programming a keyboard or drum machine
and showing his skills as a programmer or a guitar player show real
skill (and love) for his instrument ?
|
| 29.103 | AAAAARRRRRRGGGGGGHHHHH!!!! | BUFFER::GOLDSMITH | Do as I do, not as I say | Thu Oct 05 1989 17:24 | 19 |
| AAAAAAAAAARRRRRRGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!
No!!!!! God, no. The last thing I want to see is synthesizers take
over the world.
I didn't say anything about synthesizers. What I did say is that most
jazz players can pick at mach 2, but most metal players can't do
anything *BUT* pick at mach 2.
BTW, in U2's Rattle in Hum (I'm sorry for bringing them into this, but
you forced me. :-) ) BB King does play a distorted lead.
So Nananana. :-)
Second, Eddie is one of those guitarists that I was talking about that
plays a lot of solos that you can say "Yeah, that was really cool".
He's not just fast. He taught himself to play, and created his own
sound and style. That's what sets him apart from most metalists.
Seeya!
Steve
|
| 29.104 | | SUBURB::COLEJ | surprised by reality! | Wed Oct 25 1989 13:04 | 6 |
| It is the notes you leave out, not the ones you cram in, that makes
a piece.
juju
xxxx
|
| 29.105 | | CHEFS::DALLISON | Screaming blues-o-mania | Wed Oct 25 1989 16:32 | 3 |
|
We were not discussing the writing ability of a guitarist, we are
discussing the TECHNICAL aspect of playing.
|
| 29.106 | Easy Guitar | LASHAM::JOYCE_A | The Cashpoint Cowboy | Thu Oct 26 1989 17:52 | 14 |
| > < Note 29.104 by SUBURB::COLEJ "surprised by reality!" >
>
>
> It is the notes you leave out, not the ones you cram in, that makes
> a piece.
>
> juju
> xxxx
Does that mean that if I don't play anything at all, I'm a shit-hot
guitar-player? Great idea...
|
| 29.107 | nails out...up with the handbags.... | CMBOOT::EVANS | if you don't C# you'll Bb | Thu Oct 26 1989 19:24 | 9 |
|
re -1
In the case of some players yes....there are certain
name guitarists that would sound much better if they left all the notes
out.
Cheers
Pete.
|
| 29.108 | | CHEFS::DALLISON | Screaming blues-o-mania | Fri Oct 27 1989 13:05 | 4 |
|
Yeah, I know the ones you mean.
They should trying playing rock guitar instead 8^).
|
| 29.109 | C&W anyone. | CMBOOT::EVANS | if you don't C# you'll Bb | Fri Oct 27 1989 15:00 | 21 |
| Actually.....Ahem....I don't know how to put this but...
Country guitarists are among the best for speed & acuracy.
They tend to use a clean sound which is not very forgiving, the scalic
paterns are generally more complex than the metal ones, every note is
picked (as oppose to hammers, pulloffs & taps) & they folow the backing
more (as opposed to running a partial scalic pattern that fits all).
If you don't believe me listen to some Chet Atkins, Albert "country boy"
Lee, Alman Bros, Outlaws, Marshall Tucker Band.
Jeff Beck says he's recently turned onto these guys....
I got into em' years ago & they brought my playing on leaps & bounds
(esp the Outlaws...thy sort of taught the Eagles how to do it but are
heavier & more Rootsy).
Cheers
Pete.
|
| 29.110 | | CHEFS::DALLISON | Screaming blues-o-mania | Fri Oct 27 1989 15:27 | 11 |
|
I've seen the likes of Chet Atkins and Albert Lee and they are very
good.
But by sticking to picking are they not limiting their repertoire
slightly ? Also, most of these country heads play nothing *but*
country, thus limiting their understanding of other styles and
influences somewhat. I'm not putting country music down, I just
don't see how, in terms of technique, it can compare.
-Tony
|
| 29.111 | Blurred hands... | BAHTAT::STURROCK | Dear Magda....? | Fri Oct 27 1989 15:38 | 6 |
| Fast guitarists????? You ain't seen nothing till you've seen Gedge
playing the new Wedding Present numbers....he plays so fast it hurts,
or is that emmotion on his face? Anyway, his fingers were bleeding
after one of their recent gigs.
B
|
| 29.112 | Metal yes...Class no BOO HOO! | CMBOOT::EVANS | if you don't C# you'll Bb | Fri Oct 27 1989 16:38 | 32 |
|
But Metal is extremly limited in it's use of the instrument, I grant
you that occasionally you get a "different" formula stuck on an album
like an accouistic start or a solo track or something but thats about
the extent of it.
If you really mean to include the whole of Rock which encompasses
just about every thing from Billy Joel to Megadeath then I would agree
that the offerings are vast & various, but metal is just a small part
of all that.
Don't get me wrong here, I happen to like a lot of metal, thrash
leaves me wondering a bit, but I can see where the attraction is.
I've played in metal bands, in particular a metal cover band where I
was expected to rip off Van Halen, Blackmoore, Gary Moore, to name but
a few....I once had to play all three parts to Freebird on my tod.
It was not a problem really just a bit of practise & finding out the
right tricks to employ. I can do all that & I'm not a particularly
good guitarist.
The reason I'm not a good guitarist is....
I can't rip off Joe Pass or pick up a piece of Bach & play
it, I can't work out The Clap by Steve Howe or Country Boy by Albert
Lee & I can't even comprehend which planet Jon Schofield is on.
I've been offered bits session work in my time but it's all heavy
stuff...the National Youth Jazz Orchestra wouldn't trust me to polish
the brass section & I doubt that they would Malmsteen or Vai either.
Cheers
Pete.
|
| 29.113 | | CHEFS::DALLISON | Screaming blues-o-mania | Fri Oct 27 1989 18:14 | 37 |
|
>> But Metal is extremely limited in it's use of the instrument, I grant
Why is it limited ? Its no more limited then any other guitar style.
At the end of the day you play notes - be it picked with a flat
pick, picked with the finger, hammer on, pull off, tap with your
right hand or whatever. Metal incorporates more styles THAN ANY
OTHER (neck on the line here time).
It is not uncommon for guitarists to incorporate classical (Randy
Rhoads, Yngwie Malmseem, Chris Impelitterri), blues (Greg Howe, Paul
Gilbet, Vito Brata), country (Zakk Wylde), jazz (Joe Satriani, Steve
Vai) into their own styles.
Many Guitar players used to teach non-rock styles before moving into
the "elite" group of rock players.
Many peoples problem is, that many people dislike THE IMAGE of metal.
That image is that :-
o all metal fans as headbangers <I find this act extremely ugly and
you would not ever catch me doing it>,
o drug addicts <nevertouch the stuff>,
o sexually inadequate <never had any complaints 8^) >,
o youths who will "grow out of if" <rubbish! My mom is 42 and an
avid rock fan>.
etc.. etc..
People just don't see the TALENT that is overshadowed by the
ridiculous image created by people who are convinced that metal
is evil and dirty, and non-musical.
-Tony
|
| 29.114 | some little knowns... | CMBOOT::EVANS | if you don't C# you'll Bb | Fri Oct 27 1989 18:21 | 35 |
|
While I've got the bit between my teeth I thought stick this in....
Big Jim Sullivan of Eddie Cochran fame can play anything from classical
to Mach 2 metal...hardly ever heard of but one of the best session guys
in the world.
The guy out of Sutherland bros. & quiver (forget his name)gives
lessons to most of the top guys in America (I thought I read he taught
Arlen Roth but I could be wrong).
Ever hear Sacha Distelle (SP?) aged singing French hearthrob from the
early 70'S ? A PHENOMINAL player....I saw him do a jazz piece using a
Les Paul & boy did he go!!!!
Ever heard Glen Campbell play....? I saw him do McArthur park, he
extended the upbeat "bridge" bit while he picked up a Les Paul & did
the most amazing solo...I mean runs & tapping, falling off harmonics
& such feeling too....blew me away & I can't stand the bloke. He also
did the old Mason Williams Classical Gas as well, played the classical
bit, swapped to electric to do astounding solo over the middle 8, back
to acoustic to finish. First time I ever saw tapping & that must be 15
plus years ago.
Finally Tommy Tudesco....American session player, aging old fat guy,
played the TV theme to Mash & Rockford Files, in fact he does loads
of TV & film work recently described by Zappa as probably the best
guitarist he ever worked with (from Zappa interview on Channel 4 a
month or so ago).
Broaden your horizons people...you'll be amazed.
Cheers
Pete
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| 29.115 | | CHEFS::DALLISON | Screaming blues-o-mania | Fri Oct 27 1989 18:40 | 18 |
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The guitarists you are coming out with sound very, very good.
We could go on forever throwing names it each other. So, I will
summarise my point and leave it at that.
My *opinion* is ...
o Your average rock guitarist is technically more accomplished then
your average popular guitarist (not going to be specific here).
o Your average rock guitarist is capable of playing, and appreciating,
a wider variety of styles than you average non-rock guitar players.
o Your average rock guitarist has nicer hair 8^) x 343434
Have a nice day 8*),
-Tony
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| 29.116 | say "YES DAD" | CMBOOT::EVANS | if you don't C# you'll Bb | Fri Oct 27 1989 18:50 | 34 |
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Re .113
Please open your eyes Tony.....
I see the talent there & I AM a rock nay HM fan.
I used to be just like you & say all the same things (sorry to sound
patronising I don't mean to be). As I became exposed to more musical
styles realised how blind I'd been. I don't sterotype anyone & those
images of HM fans are not ones I identify with.
HM does not incorporate all styles it steals the bits that fit the
mould (like John Lord sticking 12 bars of Bach into Fireball).
HM is limited by definition it gets its sound by being musically
dominent (ie straight major/minor chord progressions), never any
12/8 or 3/4 times only 4/4, solos based on the ionian or aolean with
the pentatonic as a back stop cos it fits about anywhere, 4th/5th
chordal intervals.
But if one started using much outside this formula it would loose the feel
& tend toward another form of music.
I'm trying to save you time here....really... Broaden your horizons
a bit and your playing will come on 1000% I promise. I wasted so much
time myself I know.
Cheers
Pete.
P.S. I still play metal & blues for my own pleasure.
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| 29.117 | | CHEFS::DALLISON | Screaming blues-o-mania | Fri Oct 27 1989 19:06 | 14 |
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I appreciate the concern, but I am not a pure rock guitar player
myself.
I am currently taking lessons in fingerpicking blues/folk and I
also play classical stuff on my nylon strung acoustic too. Whilst
I am no Segiova, I DO keep my eyes open to playing, and appreciating,
other styles. (Just bought a book by Juan Martin and the cd, and
am currently working through the book, song by song). Once I have
the time, I intend to look up a good jazz guitar tutor, but at the
moment by (rock) band, blues lessons and (self-taught) classical
studys are taking up all my guitar playing time.
-Tony ( not a 100% metalhead after all this! )
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| 29.118 | Follow Bruce, kiss an indy today ! | SUBURB::COLEJ | Cider with Rosie | Tue Oct 31 1989 12:42 | 10 |
| Re - several notes .
Gedge of the weddo's is possibly the most heavy handed guitar
slaughterer i have had the misfortune to see and hear.
But I like them !
juju
xxxx
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| 29.119 | Old joke coming up ... | SQGUK::NOCK | Never mind that, just read the meter | Tue Oct 31 1989 19:20 | 5 |
| RE a few back...
Country guitarists don't limit themselves by just playing country,
They play country AND western.
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| 29.120 | 8^/ | CHEFS::DALLISON | Screaming blues-o-mania | Tue Oct 31 1989 19:22 | 2 |
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Groooooooooooooooooooooooooaaaaaaaaaaaaaaan.
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| 29.121 | No one or style is King | CHEFS::PF90 | Honky Tonk Nemises | Tue Aug 18 1992 20:27 | 29 |
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OK. I've read the majoriy of the replys in this conference and not
anyone is totally correct, and here's why:-
1). Classical guitarists are or need to be the most technical
because the music they play is profoundly more complex than
most Rock/HM. Saying that most HM guitarists are classically
trained so it's a grey area but I'd still say Classical guitarists
have and edge.
2). When it comes to versatility it basically depends on experience
and knowledge of different styles and the guitarists ability to
feel with a sound. A great example is Slash, he's an average guitarist
(professional wise - even admitted it!) but boy can he feel for a
song and complement it to make it (in some cases) a masterpiece.
3). It doesn't matter what you know as much or how you play it, but
whether it fits the song and at the end of the day when you've
listened to it so many times its still gives you a hard-on!
Generally a guitarist is renound for something be it slide, speed
harmony or for having the meanest axe in existence. So trying to
say whether HM guitarists are better than country (apparently
James Hetfield digs country licks - but that another story)
or whatever is irrelevant, even with particular guitarists.
Tony.C.
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| 29.122 | | NEWOA::DALLISON | Kid Mr Meaner meets a sticky end | Fri Aug 21 1992 17:51 | 3 |
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I started this discussion 4 years ago, mainly as a winde up, I
think its probably died a death by now.
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