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Conference decwet::winnt-clusters

Title:WinNT-Clusters
Notice:Info directories moved to DECWET::SHARE1$:[NT_CLSTR]
Moderator:DECWET::CAPPELLOF
Created:Thu Oct 19 1995
Last Modified:Fri Jun 06 1997
Last Successful Update:Fri Jun 06 1997
Number of topics:863
Total number of notes:3478

649.0. "Negative feedback on Octopus in PC Week column" by ACISS1::TSUCHIYAMA (Gary Tsuchiyama @CPO 447-2812) Thu Feb 20 1997 19:26

    There's a negative comment about Octopus in the February 17, 1997 issue
    of PC Week.  On page 142 in Spencer Katt's Rumor Central column he
    states...
    
    "One tipster using Octopus Technologies' namesake mirroring software
    for NT servers discovered it does not back up open files in real time,
    as the company claims.  Instead of automatically backing up changes to
    an open file as they occur, it actually queues up the changes, then
    waits for the file to close before sending it through to the mirrored
    server.  That's not aa major problem-unless you have a file that never
    closes, as this user does.  Maybe they should call it
    smoke-and-mirroring software, the Hairy One hissed."
    
    Does the column reflect a true condition?  Is there any other negatives
    concerning Octopus?  It seems to have some compelling characteristics
    that overcome the proprietary argument.
    
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649.1Octopus sounds good, but look below covers ..OTOU01::MAINSystems Integration-Canada,621-5078Sat Feb 22 1997 21:0659
    
    Although Octopus is a good data replication application (with exception
    of open files if previous note is true), one biggie from my perspective
    is that all writes (updates) now get propagated over the network. This
    additional network traffic may or may not be a concern from a
    performance point of view, but it also raises the issue of security. I
    believe Octopus has encryption option, but this additional overhead may 
    be (or may not be) an issue at your site.
    
    The other biggie is that of data consistency ie. if a primary server is
    updated, but before the secondary write completes, the network link 
    gets dropped. The primary now has updated data that the secondary does
    not know about, but the application on the primary considers the write
    complete. The secondary server after not being able to reach the
    primary now takes control and starts the switchover to become primary.
    
    Boom - data inconsistency. This problem is known as the two phase
    commit issue in the db world and has been extremely tough to resolve
    due to the many situations where data consistency is absolutely
    paramount - imagine ATM machine applying an update to one DB, but not a
    mirror server in another location ..
    
    Bottom line is that in DB world, a write is not considered complete
    until ALL servers report that the update has been completed
    successfully on all db's. If one server does not report success, then
    ALL updates are rolled back on all servers and an error reported to the
    application. 
    
    I may be wrong on this, but my understanding is that Octopus does not
    support the feature of update rolbacks. This would disqualify it from
    any application that required high data consistency.
    
    [I have had some interesting conversations on Compuserve with Octopus
    reps on these issues and after a few questions like this, the threads
    activity goes away :-)]
    
    Of course, for file/print application type stuff, this may not be a big
    issue, but Customers should understand these type of issues before
    jumping on the Octopus bandwagon.
    
    IMO, if a Cust absolutely needs highest availability and consistency,
    then they should be looking at OpenVMS cluster which allows volumes to
    be shadowed across different datacenters up to 500 miles apart using
    T3 /ATM lines. Volume shadowing does not consider write complete until
    all volumes report update was successful.
    
    My $.02 anyway ..
    
    :-)
    
    / Kerry
    Regards,
    
    / Kerry
    Regards,
    
    
    
    is that Octopus does not support 
649.2TARKIN::LINBill LinSat Feb 22 1997 21:3811
    re: .1 by OTOU01::MAIN
    
    >> / Kerry
    >> Regards,
    >> 
    >> / Kerry
    >> Regards,
    
    You even write with data integrity (via redundancy) in mind.  ;-)
    
    /Bill
649.3OTOU01::MAINSystems Integration-Canada,621-5078Sun Feb 23 1997 02:3010
    >>
    You even write with data integrity (via redundancy) in mind.  ;-)
    >>
    
    mmmm.. Confucious say "never write note when going out door to hockey
    game .."
    
    :-)
    
    / Kerry