Conference ljsrv1::tv_chatter

    Our house last night was divided by what the tv guide called "the gender 
    decision". Jeff watched Odyssy and I watched True Women.
    
    From his comments, so far he's like Odyssey. Says it's somewhat close
    to the poem. We've been so dissappointed with the recent duo of 20,000
    leagues under the sea that I don't think either of us have high
    expectations. That's one of the reasons I chose to watch something
    else (which has been very good so far!).
    
    If no one else responds to your plot question, I'll ask him and post it
    here.
    
    janetb. 

    general summary after form feeds 
    
     more spoilers
    
    Odysseus finds out from the witch that it's been 3-5 years not 3-5 days
    their boat is buried in sand, very weathered.
    
    when he asks the witch how to get home 
    she says go ask god of the underworld and have to sacrifice Ram on alter
    
    they find a volconic cone in ocean, with tunnel, pillers/archway/gateway
    see spirits floating around
    
    last shot has odysseus walking through corridor with fire/brimstone
    falling, but not touching him
    
    
    recognizably the odessey

  I think it's pretty good. It's been criticized as being a bit melodramatic
but then that's in keeping with the style in which Greek Plays, if not epic
poems, were performed.

  If there is one thing that is missing it's any hint of the formulaic style
in which epic poems were written. Originally these poems were written as sort
of a cross between news and religion and were performed by a singer who went
from town to town. The way the singer would remember a poem of this length
was through it's formula.

  The way it worked was that each chapter was broken into sections and each
section consisted of a template in which the singer would fill in the blanks.
For example, if Odysseus was going to battle there would be a dress for battle
section, walk to battle section, fighting section, pick up the bodies section,
go home section (or something like that). The poet memorized the template for
each part and filled in Odysseus' name and the names of the people he fought.

  Then when it came time for Achilles to go to battle it would be the same
templates (or formula) with Achilles and the people he fought filled in. 

  Anyway, there is no indication of that style. At the very least they could
have put something like that into the narration. It's probably the most
important thing that sets Greek epics apart from other major works of
literature.

  George

    It was one of the first (made for) TV movie (that was in parts) that I
    was able to sit and watch all of.
    
    Good performances by most everyone.  Special effects were great at
    times and unrealistic at others.  Good ending.
    
    FYI- they spent 40 million on the flick.  Kinda pricey for a TV movie.
    
    	Jay

  I really liked this show a lot, both parts. The Hydra was terrifying, boy
was that thing fast. "Ok, come and get me ... *** WHOOP!! squish *** ......"
gone. Really good acting, good effects, good direction, etc.

 Here a question in case anyone's read the poem recently or in case anyone has
a good theory ... 

SPOILER 


  Why did the profit in the underworld send them through the straight with the
Hydra? Even when they got past that they were doomed to go over the cliff. What
was the point of even trying?

  George

    The Hydra is actually the Scylla, she was once a beautiful maiden
    turned in to a six headed man eater.  FYI of course.
    
    	Jay

  Was that the one in the cave?

  If so, what was the thing that ate the boat and the guys who 1st fell
off the cliff?

  George

    The thing that munched on the boat and the rest of the crew was the
    Charybdis.
    
    	Which by the way, I think it was the coolest special fx for TV.
    
    	Jay

    I read in a local tv schedule that Jim Henson's shop did the special
    effects for some of the creatures.
    
    Maybe I already had that in mind, but one time when I was channel
    surfing on Sunday night between this and another show, some guy was
    getting squished/eaten and all I could think of was the monster looked
    like Jabba the Hut (at least the body section.)
    
    I did notice at the end of the 2nd night, there was an add for it on
    videocassette.
    
    The show got good reviews from my other half - who's usually pretty
    picky. He said it was very recognizable as the Odessey and though some
    of the stuff was rearranged out of order from the poem, it was all done
    very well.  
    
    janetb.

RE         <<< Note 498.8 by POLAR::TYSICK "Prying Open my Third Eye" >>>

>                              -< Anything else? >-

  Yeh, one more biggie. When the profit told him to go through the straight
he mentioned the two monsters but I thought he said one was on one side and
one was on the other. It would make sense to send a hero down a straight
with monsters on each side telling him he had to stay in the middle. Typical
hero stuff. 

  But why didn't he mention the part about how the 2nd monster was waiting at
the end, not on the side, and that the boat would go over a cliff that the boat
could not possibly survive? Even if they had made it past the 2nd monster they
would most likely have drowned if they were not killed in the fall and at best
they would have had no boat left. 

  George

    RE: .10
    
    	I guess once he passed the Scylla, Odysseus (and Crew) would be in
    between both creatures, "one on one side, one on the other".
    
    	It is "typical hero stuff", but it wouldn't be any fun if it were
    easy for him right?  [^;=
    
    	I always thought the side by side thing was supposed to be on the
    right and left of him too.  The movie just saw it differently. 
    Besides, only a handful of the crew were supposed to live after the
    Scylla & Charybdis, they weren't all (except Odysseus) suppose to die.
    In the real poem, he actually loses them in the next trek, then he ends
    up on Calypso's island.
    
    	Jay

  So in the book the boat doesn't go over the cliff?

  What percentage of the adventures in the book made it into the movie?

  George

    In the story/poem there's no mention of a cliff, I always imagined the
    Charybdis as a Sea Monster that ate ships by attacking them from
    underwater. ???
    
    Here is the chronological order...
    
    Odysseus (or Ulysses), after defeating Troy ended up on Ismarus (city
    of Circonians) and there loses 6 men from each ship.
    
    The get stuck in a storm for 9 days and end up in the Country of the
    Lotus Eaters.  Odysseus has to drag a couple of crew members back to
    the ship cause they've eaten the Lotus Flower which makes them want to
    stay in this new country.  They all survive though and leave.
    
    Next they end up on the Island of the Cyclops' and encounter Polyphemus
    (the one in the cave) he ends up eating 6 more of the crew.  They
    escape.
    
    They now meet King Aeolus (king of Wind), they set off for home again,
    the crew screws up and opens the bag (of wind) to early which blows
    them back to King. The King is P.O'd and sends them off in another wild
    wind.
    
    Now they end up fighting Laesterygonians and lose all the ships except
    Odysseus' and his crew.
    
    Next they end up on the Island of Aeaean.  They meet Circe, the one he
    beats by eating that plant which keeps him from turning into an animal.
    Circe is the one who tells him how to beat the Sirens and warns them of
    the Syclla & Charybdis.
    
    The pass the Sirens safely by strapping Odysseus to the mast, while the
    rest of the crew put wax in their ears, so they won't hear the Maidens
    song.  Hearing this song will drive them to the shores and ultimately
    to their death.
    
    The Scylla eats 6 more crew members and they somehow escape the
    Charybdis.
    
    The next place is Thrinakia, the crew screws up yet again while
    Odysseus is away and eat the forbiden cattle.  They must leave the
    this place into a great storm.  The storm claims everybodies life
    except Odysseus.
    
    Odysseus meets Calypso, and you know what happens from there on in...
    
    	Jay

Re         <<< Note 498.13 by POLAR::TYSICK "Prying Open my Third Eye" >>>

>    Now they end up fighting Laesterygonians and lose all the ships except
>    Odysseus' and his crew.

  What's this?
    
>    The Scylla eats 6 more crew members and they somehow escape the
>    Charybdis.

  Why was the maiden Scylla turned into a 6 headed serpent? Did that happen
in this story or in another story?
    
  While we're at it, I was trying to remember exactly what the story was with
Hellen and the 1000 ships that got them going in the 1st place in the Iliad.
Was Hellen taken from Menolaous to Troy by Hector's brother or have I got that
goofed up? I read that book back in 1967, good grief that was 30 years ago.
I think it was still in 1st addition.

  George

Apropos of absolutely nothing, but this seemed an appropriate place...

Helen's face was so beautiful that it caused 1000 ships to be launched.

Therefore, a milli-Helen is the amount of beauty required to launch 1 ship...

-- Ken Moreau :-)
   who read that in an Engineering book years ago, and *still* laughs about it

    RE: Scylla
    
    	There was a fisherman called Glaucus.  One day he emptied his nets
    on the shore, the fish, being dead for quite sometime, began to
    flip-flop back to the sea.  Glaucus thought it may be the herbage/grass
    that he layed them down in.  So he ate some, then feeling an urged to
    swim the sea.  With the consent of some gods (Oceanus I think?), he
    was turned into a "merman".
    
    	Then one day he saw Scylla, a sea-nymph, on the shore line and it
    was love at first sight (for him anyways).  He approached her but she
    was startled by his appearence (long green hair and lower half being a
    fish tail) so she ran from him.
    
    	Glaucus couldn't stand this so he went to Circe to get help.  Circe
    didn't think they should be together, so refused to help.  Glaucus said
    he could love no other and left.  Circe was angered by this but
    couldn't punish Glaucus.  So to keep Glaucus away from Scylla, she
    poisoned the sea-nymph and the poison didn't kill Scylla.  It turned
    her into a snake type creature with 6 heads that would hide in the
    shadows of it's cavern and feast on unsuspecting sailors.
    
    	Jay

FYI, the texts of "The Iliad" and "The Odyssey" are on the Web at:

     http://classics.mit.edu/Homer/iliad.html

     http://classics.mit.edu/Homer/odyssey.html