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Conference lgp30::christian-perspective

Title:Discussions from a Christian Perspective
Notice:Prostitutes and tax collectors welcome!
Moderator:CSC32::J_CHRISTIE
Created:Mon Sep 17 1990
Last Modified:Fri Jun 06 1997
Last Successful Update:Fri Jun 06 1997
Number of topics:1362
Total number of notes:61362

1357.0. "Worldwide Church of God joins Christianity" by PHXS02::HEISER (Maranatha!) Wed May 21 1997 21:10

    Check out this site to see the amazing story of how the Worldwide
    Church of God cult (i.e., Armstrongism) has converted to Christianity
    en masse!  What a testimony to God and His Word!
    
    http://www.wcg.org/pt/96feb/96feb.txt
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1357.1SMART2::DGAUTHIERWed May 21 1997 21:5012
    I read the first part by the President, Joseph Teach.  Correct me if
    I'm wrong, but it sounds like this decision was made by a group of
    church leaders, or perhaps just one leader?  It seems like a somewhat
    radical change in doctrine.
    
    Do people join a church for direction?  Can a church leadership provide
    bad direction?  How do you know when this is true?  If your church were
    to suddenly forsake Jesus as Christ, would you stick with them?  How
    much weight should one give in the guidance provided by a church?
    
    -dave
    
1357.2PHXS02::HEISERMaranatha!Wed May 21 1997 22:036
    More details on the remarkable change.  It appears Hank Hanegraaff, the
    "Bible Answer Man" had quite a role in this.
    
    http://www.wcg.org/wn/95Dec5/today.htm
    http://www.wcg.org/pt/96Feb/comntary.htm
    http://www.wcg.org/wn/95Nov14/radio.htm
1357.3PHXS02::HEISERMaranatha!Fri May 23 1997 16:0453
|    I read the first part by the President, Joseph Teach.  Correct me if
|    I'm wrong, but it sounds like this decision was made by a group of
|    church leaders, or perhaps just one leader?  It seems like a somewhat
|    radical change in doctrine.
    
    I've seen testimonies from the non-leadership and they agree with the
    decision.  They haven't had a major fall-out in membership.  Sometimes
    this depends on the hierarchy of the church or cult in question.
    
|    Do people join a church for direction?  
    
    Many do.  Jesus Christ was a shepherd/teacher (among other things). 
    One of the gifts He gave the church (Ephesians 4:11) are
    pastor/teachers.  Their job is to equip the saints and build up the
    body of Christ for the Lord's work.
    
    | Can a church leadership provide bad direction?  
    
    Sure can.  Look at what this cult did.  Look at some of the mistakes of
    the Catholic Church over the centuries.  Look at Jim Jones, Applewhite,
    Koresh, etc.  Even Jim Bakker and Jimmy Swaggart.  The leaders of the
    "Name it and Claim it" Faith movement have been providing bad direction
    for decades now.  Those in the Toronto & Pensacola movements are
    providing not only bad direction, but are endangering their flocks.
    
    |How do you know when this is true?  
    
    When they declare things in God's name that totally contradict the
    Bible.
    
    |If your church were to suddenly forsake Jesus as Christ, would you 
    |stick with them?  
    
    Not a chance.  
    
    |How much weight should one give in the guidance provided by a church?
    
    I think the Bible says it best in Acts 17:11 and I Peter 3:15

17:10  And the brethren immediately sent away Paul and Silas by night unto
 Berea: who coming thither went into the synagogue of the Jews.
17:11  These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received
 the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily,
 whether those things were so.

    The Bereans were considered honorable because they always contrasted
    teaching with the perfect Word of God.  They weren't deceived by bad
    leadership.
    
I Peter 3:15  
    But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an
 answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with
 meekness and fear:
1357.4SMART2::DGAUTHIERFri May 23 1997 16:168
    > When they declare things in God's name that totally contradict the
    >    Bible.
    
    Well, it would appear that this group was following something like the
    Jewish Bible, or just the OT prior to this conversion.  It would seem
    that they changed Bibles as well as philosophy.  Yes?  No?
    
    
1357.5PHXS02::HEISERMaranatha!Fri May 23 1997 16:225
    I think they were heavily legalistic or at least too Old Testament
    focused while ignoring New Testament context.  They now embrace the 
    entire Bible and have learned you need to interpret the Old Testament 
    in light of the New Testament.  Afterall, the Old Testament is the New 
    Testament concealed, the New Testament is the Old Testament revealed.
1357.6SMARTT::DGAUTHIERFri May 23 1997 20:4218
    Well, it seems sort of strange that the majority of the members would
    accept such a radical change based on a decision made by church
    leaders.  I mean they accepted and adopted a non-christian belief
    system when they joined the church.  The leaders decide it's time  to
    become christian and they say fine, I'll be a christian now?  If
    someone asked them why they were christian, would they say that they're
    christian because the church leaders told them to be?  What if the
    leaders decide to switch to Islam next year?  Will they continue to
    follow?  
    
    I've always thought that a christian's beliefs were based on a personal
    understanding of the Bible or a personal faith or a personal
    relationship with God and less on the direction set by church leaders.
    
    Is it typical for people to join a church then become christian or the
    other way around?
    
    -dave