Conference lgp30::christian-perspective

    No, actually I do need this reminder from time to
    time...frequently....daily!!  
    
    What the base note is getting to (my piece of it), is if you don't
    believe Jesus is the Christ, the savior, the redeemer, the forgiver of
    sin, don't point fingers and cry foul foul at the shortcomings of
    believers.  Own up to the fact that you simply don't believe in the
    need for salvation and forgiveness of sin.  
    
    If we use humans as a measuring stick, we will ultimately fail.  As
    King David said, "My heart and my flesh may fail, but the Lord is the
    strength of my heart."  Lord knows King David was one of the greatest
    human failures in history...but he was a chosen king and a man after
    God's own heart.  Moses was also a failure in the flesh...he didn't
    fully follow the Lord in Egypt and did the human thing by killing the
    Egyptian (Yet another possible proof for eschewing Capital punishment), 
    and spent forty years tending stinking sheep.  The great mathematician,
    expert in hyroglyphics, philosopher and learner of different
    languages...a shephard in under the house of Jethro.  No...mankind has
    a legacy of being weak in the flesh.  
    
    This is why focusing our eyes on the savior is so important.  The
    weak branches on a vine will not bear fruit and will be rendered
    useless.  John the Baptist was perceived as an authoritative hothead
    and lost his head as a result.  But his concern for the salvation of
    mankind...this was true love.  What better form of flattery than truth
    over superficial words.
    
    -Jack

re Note 1347.2 by ASGMKA::MARTIN:

>     What the base note is getting to (my piece of it), is if you don't
>     believe Jesus is the Christ, the savior, the redeemer, the forgiver of
>     sin, don't point fingers and cry foul foul at the shortcomings of
>     believers.  Own up to the fact that you simply don't believe in the
>     need for salvation and forgiveness of sin.  
>     
>     If we use humans as a measuring stick, we will ultimately fail.  

        On the other hand, if the only people who can trust their own
        seeing if "the fruit is good" are people who have already
        taken it as a matter of faith that "the fruit is good" -- big
        whoop.

        Bob

    Bob:  
    
    I agree with you.  The only physical manifestation of Christ may very
    well be on what fruit they see in a believers life.
    
    In America, it is safe to assume that everybody has access to
    information and good testimony.  In other words, it is equivocal to
    assume, for example, that because a few car salesmen are unethical,
    then all salesmen are unethical and therefore I will not buy a car.
    
    The excuse here in America of eschewing Christianity due to the bad
    testimony of a few doesn't wash.  One either believes in Jesus Christ
    or one does not...which is perfectly fine.  Just don't look at
    followers as the misdirected outlet for displaying disbelief.  This is
    sort of what I was saying about Gandhi in that string.  If you don't
    believe Jesus is Lord, savior, redeemer, etc., then state this as your
    reason and stop trying to cop out (not you personally).
    
    -Jack

Note 1347.0

>    My propensity is to look above others stupidities and get to the meat
>    of the issue...that being regardless of shortsightedness of the
>    followers,...

It seems to me, Jack, that you're mighty tolerant of the chronic stupidities
of those whose stupidities you choose to tolerate.

:-)

Richard

Z    It seems to me, Jack, that you're mighty tolerant of the chronic
Z    stupidities of those whose stupidities you choose to tolerate.
    
    Yes...especially when I wake up and look in the mirror!! :-)

    .6
    
    You may be better off.  I have a problem with any stupidity, even my
    own.
    
    Richard