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Conference lgp30::christian-perspective

Title:Discussions from a Christian Perspective
Notice:Prostitutes and tax collectors welcome!
Moderator:CSC32::J_CHRISTIE
Created:Mon Sep 17 1990
Last Modified:Fri Jun 06 1997
Last Successful Update:Fri Jun 06 1997
Number of topics:1362
Total number of notes:61362

1345.0. "Who did Jesus separate himself from?" by CSC32::J_CHRISTIE (Spigot of pithiness) Tue Apr 08 1997 16:39

    Who did Jesus separate himself from (realizing he was never called a
    Christian)?
    
    Richard
    
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1345.1CSC32::J_CHRISTIESpigot of pithinessTue Apr 08 1997 16:456
    Jesus didn't seem to be too concerned about pretense and appearance.
    Paul seemed to worry about such things, but apparently not to the
    degree that Peter did on occasion.
    
    Richard
    
1345.2ALFSS1::BENSONAEternal WeltanschauungTue Apr 08 1997 17:4323
    
    Jesus was very concerned about pretense and appearance but not in the
    way you imagine.
    
    The perversion of God's Law by the scribes and Pharisees, for example, 
    was of great concern to Jesus, both for their sakes and for the sakes
    of all of Israel (and ultimately all of us who would hear him). 
    
    Jesus's words and actions were always explanations and elaborations on 
    the truths already in posession by the Jews via the written Law and the
    Prophets.
    
    The pretense that the scribes, Pharisees, and Sadducees were
    protecting, practicing, and preaching the truths which God had revealed
    to their forefathers was completely exposed as such by Jesus.  The 
    appearance of success and piety was shattered by Christ's teaching.
    
    The pretense so evident in our age by those that want to align
    themselves, in part, with the Christ of their imagination instead of
    the Christ of the Bible are as interested in appearance as any of their
    scribe, Pharisee, or Saduccee counterparts.
    
    jeff
1345.3SMARTT::DGAUTHIERWed Apr 09 1997 13:3613
    If I may... it seems that Jesus disaligned himself from those who
    thought themselves to be above or better than others.  A "holier than
    though" arrogant attitude seemed to be a favorite target of his.  
    Instead, humility was embraced.  The nature of children was held as a
    standard...  humble, innocent, trusting, ignorant and accepting of
    everyone at face value without judgment based on societal or religious
    distinction.  

    I wonder what Jesus would have to say about the Christian church in
    this light.


    -dave
1345.4ASGMKA::MARTINConcerto in 66 MovementsWed Apr 09 1997 15:5815
 Z   If I may... it seems that Jesus disaligned himself from those who
 Z   thought themselves to be above or better than others.  A "holier
 Z   than though" arrogant attitude seemed to be a favorite target of his.  
    
    Dave, how much more can one show humility than to admit they are a
    sinner and cannot merit eternal life in any other way than through a
    redeeming power?  
    
    The pharisees could claim they were strict followers of the law, and
    could display their efforts by outward manifestation.  Since the law
    does not justify in the New Testament age, a holier than thou attitude
    would be the equivalent of dressing up in a clown outfit...so to speak.  
    
    Do you put the challenging of beliefs in the same light as claiming to
    be holier than thou!?
1345.5SMART2::DGAUTHIERWed Apr 09 1997 18:2137
    Re .4 (Jack)

    Admitting that one is a sinner is a humbling thing.  Believing that
    eternal life cannot be achieved by oneself is also humbling.  But
    what's next?  An unequivocal faith in the Bible gives you the answer
    quite handily.  But the answer you come up with is rooted in this
    one act of faith.  Standing outside the inerrant position, the orthodox
    answer seems to be one which has a low probability of being true.  I'm
    not asking for absolute proof here Jack, just something with a > 50%
    chance of being true.

    >Do you put the challenging of beliefs in the same light as claiming to
    >    be holier than thou!?

    Not quite sure what you're asking here.  If you're asking about my
    position in relationship to Christianity, then I'd say no.  I'm not
    claiming that I have answers.  I'm not playing "holier than thou". As
    Jeff would be more than delighted to hear, I admit to being quite
    ignorant when it comes to knowing the eternal truths of the universe.
    But I am engaged in a sincere search for the truth.  I may "test"
    Christianity as a source of truth by posing what I see as biblical self
    contradictions. Maybe I might learn something from your responses.  I may
    wonder who Jesus was and what he had to say.  I may question whether or
    not orthodox Christianity is indeed following the teachings of Jesus or
    not.  But all of this is part of the search.  I'd be doing the very same
    thing in they hypothetical "Hindu_Perspectives" or "Moslem_Perspectives"
    conferences if they existed.

    I don't expect that I'll ever get the answers.  I don't think I'm well
    enough equipped.  I expect that this is the way it's supposed to be.
    I envy the confidence and sense of security that orthodox Christians
    appear to have.  But I'm sure the ancient Greeks were confident in
    their belief of Zeus.  Didn't make them right.  And the ends don't
    justify the means.

    -dave