Conference lgp30::christian-perspective

    This passage is to be read as an example of the Lord's promise in
    chapter 28 to be with Jacob during his journey to the East.  Jacob's
    clever use of the peeled poplar branches was not so much intended to
    demonstrate his resourcefulness as it was to further the theme of God's
    continued faithfulness to His Word.  The clue to the meaning of the
    passage is in v.43, where a summary of the whole narrative is given. 
    The summary recalls quite clearly God's blessing of both Abraham
    (12:16) and Isaac (26:14); it then puts the events of this chapter
    within the larger context of the themes developed throughout the book:
    God's promise of blessing and his faithfulness to that promise. 
    Jacob's wise dealings with Laban are an example of the way God caused
    him to prosper during this journey.  Further confirmation that this is
    the meaning comes from the words of Jacob himself in the next chapter.  
    Looking back he told his wives that it was God who had taken Laban's 
    herds and given them to him (31:9).

.1

>   Jacob's
>   clever use of the peeled poplar branches was not so much intended to
>   demonstrate his resourcefulness as it was to further the theme of God's
>   continued faithfulness to His Word.

You mean doing what Jacob did really works?

Richard

    Sheep aren't very bright - no wonder God compares us to them.
    
    There are many varieties of hazel (i.e., poplar branches), some of
    which are more erect than the common hazel.  It was probably one of
    these that Jacob used.  The styles are of a bright red color, when
    peeled; and along with them he took wands of other shrubs, which when
    stripped of the bark had white streaks.  These were kept constantly before
    the eyes of the female at the time of gestation, his observation taught
    him it would have an influence.

    .3
    
    You mean to tell me it really works?  Changing what a sheep sees will
    alter the appearance of the sheep's offspring?
    
    I'm not much into husbandry of animals.  Is this a common practice?
    
    Richard
    

    Well I'm not a farmer/shepherd, and I don't play one on TV either, but
    it appears to work.

    Me thinks Jacob had a speckeled stud of some sort in the wood pills
    
    Genetics are what alter the stripes, speckles etc. not what a sheep,
    cow, person sees during gestation.
    
    
    meg

    .6
    
    That certainly fits with my understanding.
    
    Richard
    

re Note 1343.6 by CSC32::M_EVANS:

>     Genetics are what alter the stripes, speckles etc. not what a sheep,
>     cow, person sees during gestation.
  
        Such blind faith in what godless science tells you!

    I believe that in-womb experiences can change certain things, but I
    spend a lot of time with people of color, although the chosen father of
    my children is white.  Gee, so are my kids, but wouldn't you say that
    they should look like the peopl I spend my time with in that case,
    instead of showing the western European genetics?
    
    also I have raised cats, rabbits, horses, goats, and birds over the
    years.  A chestnut arab mare, bread to another chestnut arab, will not
    produce a blanketed apoloosa no matter what she sees.  Or I might have
    had one.  
    
    meg

    So does this mean you don't accept divine intervention as a
    possibility?
    
    My wife is a Mexican-Indian.  I'm what Meg calls "lily-white."  Of my 4
    children, 1 looks exactly like my wife (color and all), and 1 looks
    exactly like me ("lily-white" too).  My wife and I actually prayed for
    a blonde-hair, blue-eyed baby boy (her choice, not mine).  I'm told it
    is very rare in our color combinations.
    
    God provides,
    Mike

.10

>    My wife is a Mexican-Indian.  I'm what Meg calls "lily-white."  Of my 4
>    children, 1 looks exactly like my wife (color and all), and 1 looks
>    exactly like me ("lily-white" too).  My wife and I actually prayed for
>    a blonde-hair, blue-eyed baby boy (her choice, not mine).  I'm told it
>    is very rare in our color combinations.

Rarity is a bit different from a mother seeing spots and her child's
permanent pigmentation is a reflection of what she sees.

By the way, congratulations.  I see children as a blessing regardless of
their coloring.

Richard

    So do you think divine intervention is not possible in such a
    situation?

    .12
    
    In the case of Jacob's flocks, I don't recall the text indicating
    divine intervention.  I'll have to reread it, I guess.
    
    Richard
    

    The promises and blessings of God for Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob start
    in Genesis 12 and snowball from there.

    .14
    
    Genesis does not shy away from pointing out divine intervention in the
    stories of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob when it occurs.
    
    Earlier in this string I got the impression that you considered this
    a pretty standard technique in breeding.
    
    Richard
    

    I didn't mean to give that impression.  I was just providing "big
    picture" commentary on the text, not just the breeding.  God's blessing, 
    as I stated, is all over Jacob and his dealings.
    
    As for the breeding itself, Laban agreed to give Jacob streaked and 
    speckled sheep because they weren't common in that day.  Thus Laban's
    agreement was motivated by greed and unfair to Jacob.  God's
    intervention caused the multiplication of the speckled and streaked
    animals and was a divine judgment on the deceitful Laban.  Jacob
    *probably* acted out in faith on what God told him to do to make this
    happen.  
    
    Even today, there is an entire brand of sheep known as "Jacob Sheep" with 
    distinguished markings (streaks, spots, etc. of black/white/gray tones)
    and curved horns.

    Deceitful Laban??!!
    
    Laban was no worse than his nephew!!
    
    Richard
    

    Is that all you got out of the passage?
    
    Maybe our friends in BAGELS will shed more light on it.

.18

>    Is that all you got out of the passage?

I don't remember saying that it was.
    
>    Maybe our friends in BAGELS will shed more light on it.

Maybe.  I'll be curious to see.

Richard