| T.R | Title | User | Personal
Name | Date | Lines |
|---|
| 1328.1 | | ASGMKA::MARTIN | Concerto in 66 Movements | Mon Feb 24 1997 14:00 | 7 |
| The Sermon on the Mount is an attitude a believer should be perpetually
covered with.
The world however interprets things differently...hence the reason a
person doesn't understand that love must be tough at times.
-Jack
|
| 1328.2 | | SMART2::DGAUTHIER | | Mon Feb 24 1997 17:46 | 17 |
| I've always been puzzled by this. On the one hand (and especially in
John), it would seem that simply believing that Jesus=Messiah is
enough. Yet on the other hand (in the Synoptics) it would seem that
Jesus was recommending a course of attitude and behavior as a route to
the Kingdom. So why would he bother with all the teaching if all that
was needed was belief? But then it's been said that simply acting
morally is not enough because even the pagans can do that. The different
denominations seem to adoopt the two different concepts in varying
degrees.
One way to reconcile the two would be to suggest that "believing" means
more than giving lip service and that the Messiah saves by making
available the means to salvation... practicing his teachings.
"Jesus saves those who save themselves"?????
-dave
|
| 1328.3 | Two aspects | SUBSYS::LOPEZ | He showed me a River! | Mon Feb 24 1997 18:10 | 18 |
|
re.2
Hi Dave,
No contradiction. The answer lies is understanding the difference between
eternal life and the kingdom. To receive eternal life only requires believing.
To receive and participate in the kingdom requires living out the life you
received. Eternal life requires beleiving, but to the gain the kingdom requires
a price to be paid.
These two matters are not contradictory, rather they refer to two aspects. Not
all bleivers will participate in the kingdom but all beleivers will have ternal
life.
Regards,
Ace
|
| 1328.4 | | SMART2::DGAUTHIER | | Mon Feb 24 1997 19:26 | 11 |
| Eternal life which is unpleasant doesn't seem too attractive.
Might all those in Hell be said to have "eternal life", albeit
unpleasant ? Oblivion would be preferable. Yes? No?
I never made the distinction between Eternal Life and the Kingdom of
Heaven. So many metaphors. There's "The Kingdom of God", "The Kingdom
of Heaven", "Eternal Life', "Heaven", "Paradise" (as in "Today you will
be with me in Paradise")... any others?
-dave
|
| 1328.5 | | SUBSYS::LOPEZ | He showed me a River! | Mon Feb 24 1997 20:16 | 11 |
|
re.4
Dave,
I think you have all the major ones. Understanding the differences between
them will clear up nearly all misunderstandings about the Bible its messages.
Regards,
Ace
|
| 1328.6 | | CSC32::J_CHRISTIE | Mirthful Mystic | Tue Feb 25 1997 00:11 | 5 |
| What's disheartening to me are all the Christians who are just in it
for the salvation.
Richard
|
| 1328.7 | | CSC32::M_EVANS | be the village | Tue Feb 25 1997 00:49 | 15 |
| Do some of you ever have any fun in your religion? I am curious, as I
only see a lot of "my god's better than your god," and a lot of "what is
in it for me." (Isn't one of the deadly sins gluttony or selfishness?)
In another forum I see people asking their god to show them where they
are wrongheaded, instead of celebrating the fact that they have a
loving diety, and one who, according to your books and traditions, was
willing to give up a son so you could get closer to your diety.
There is joy in helping another, joy in being alive, and IMO and
tradition, joy in celebrating one's religion. If this isn't the case
and all you are trying to do is avoid some hellish afterlife, why
bother?
meg
|
| 1328.8 | | SUBSYS::LOPEZ | He showed me a River! | Tue Feb 25 1997 11:10 | 9 |
|
re.7
Actually, I tend to agree with you. I enjoy God to the uttermost. As to your
last point, eternity is a long time.
Regards,
Ace
|
| 1328.9 | | THOLIN::TBAKER | Flawed To Perfection | Tue Feb 25 1997 13:35 | 37 |
| RE: .7 Meg
So, what's in it for me?
Jesus told us to love one another. This is *really* good advise.
To be in a loving state is, in it's own way, a lot like being in
heaven.
Now, how can you *get* there and *stay* in that state? Jesus
and the rest of the Bible hold some pretty good ideas. The 10
commandments (eg. don't mess w/ your neighbor's wife - Ignore
this and there's *bound* to be trouble) and mis-understanding
love and in general getting your priorities straight.
Church is a place where I can work on these lessons and work out
my personal kinks. Sort of a "sandbox" helping us get ready for
the real world.
The ritual of communion is where we come together and "share" the
same cup. This, amongst other things, drives home the point that
we're all in this together.
Jesus said "how can you love God, whom you haven't seen if you don't
love your brother whom you have seen?" He's got a point there.
*Without those people around me I can't get to God* And the church
is a good place to build a community and communion and communication
with others. Without it, love remains just an abstract idea. And,
quite truthfully, without such a community one can become very lonely.
This religion, this church feeds me. The more I give to it the more
I get back. Since joining, my wife has opened up, too.
Salvation? Judging from where we've been, we're experiencing
salvation. If we keep putting more into it, things can only get
better.
Tom
|
| 1328.10 | | SMARTT::DGAUTHIER | | Tue Feb 25 1997 19:58 | 8 |
| re .9 (Tom)
So what would you say happens after you die? Do you retain this state
of being? Oblivion?
Just curious.
-dave
|
| 1328.11 | | THOLIN::TBAKER | Flawed To Perfection | Tue Feb 25 1997 20:45 | 13 |
| > So what would you say happens after you die? Do you retain this state
> of being? Oblivion?
Or state of bliss.
The real currency in this universe is Love. This is God-stuff.
It is divine. The more love you have the more in line with God
you are.
Yes. The love you hold, I believe, stays with you. Those aspects
about you that don't love or aren't love, suffer.
Tom
|
| 1328.12 | | ASGMKA::MARTIN | Concerto in 66 Movements | Wed Feb 26 1997 13:06 | 24 |
| Z Do some of you ever have any fun in your religion? I am curious, as I
Z only see a lot of "my god's better than your god," and a lot of "what is
Z in it for me." (Isn't one of the deadly sins gluttony or selfishness?)
Meg, it is understandable you feeling this way...considering you appear
to use notes as a litmus test for how Christians act. To answer your
question, I have alot of fun with fellow believers...our church is very
interactive in our lives and above all we feel mandated to do, one of
them is enriching our personal lives through friendships and fun.
I still fail to see how you get the "what's in it for me" perspective
here, or in Soapbox for that matter. I see this as a forum to discuss
differences and I find it quite enlightening. Also, you need to
realize that Christianity never guarenteed freedom from obstacles or
persecution in life. Christianity is one of the most divisive faiths
in the world. It makes us come to grips as to who we are, what our
condition is, and how we need to make ourselves right before God.
Richard, I think you downplay the importance of salvation. In the
garden, God had placed a high emphasis on eternal life and in the end,
when we are in the great city of Jerusalme, God revisits and restores
the church to rightness. This is why Jesus suffered.
-Jack
|
| 1328.13 | | RDGENG::YERKESS | bring me sunshine in your smile | Wed Feb 26 1997 13:49 | 18 |
| re .7
Meg,
Z Do some of you ever have any fun in your religion? I am curious, as I
Z only see a lot of "my god's better than your god," and a lot of "what is
Z in it for me." (Isn't one of the deadly sins gluttony or selfishness?)
Yes, we do have fun. I have found calling on others with the good news very
nerve racking, and the last thing I want to do is call at a strangers door.
But when you get out there, one can have fun with the persons your preaching
with and when some one wants to look into more about what the Bible has to
say with it's wonderful promises then it makes all the effort worth while.
If people don't want to listen then that's fine, we move to the next door.
Being a Jehovah's Witness is a very enjoyable experience.
Phil.
|
| 1328.14 | Heaven like hell | HLFS00::WILDT_W | Technicians are alone 2 | Thu Mar 06 1997 10:06 | 50 |
| > Do some of you ever have any fun in your religion? I am curious, as I
> only see a lot of "my god's better than your god," and a lot of "what
> is in it for me." (Isn't one of the deadly sins gluttony or
> selfishness?)
Meg,
I wonder how much you know from God.
Jesus said: "If you not become like a little child, you can't
enter God's Kingdom!"
I have a little girl of 6 months, have you ever considders how
a child like this react.
If she is hungry: "She cry!"
If she is wet : "She cry!"
If she is left alone: "She cry!"
If she is to warm: "She cry!"
If she is to cold: "She cry!"
If she is not crying and I talk to her and keep moving her:
"She makes sounds, looks like she understand everything, smiles
and is just showing that she is very happy indeed!"
God want us to live in His delight, be happy when He is happy
for a sinner who comes back to the Lord.
God give us peace and of course we not understand all, but we
can bring all our zorrows to the cross and the blood of Jesus
will wash everything white like snow.
And if we are living in His Light, we be happy if more of the
darkness goes away.
What's in it for me? that's simple, the more people will join
me in my belief in Jesus, the more my faith will grow and my
happyness also.
Me life belonges to my God, Who has buy it whith the blood of
His beloved Son Jesus Christ.
And if He want to take my life He can, because I know I have
a second life trough His Son Jesus Christ.
And this live will never die.
If I know I will live forever with my God, I might as well
do anything to start loving Him.
Because being together with someone I not love is already hard
for a few days!
And if you not love God, than heaven will be like hell to you.
L.B.W.
|