Conference lgp30::christian-perspective

 I wish I had the man's faith and boldness..oh, that a soul or 2 were reached!




 Jim

I would that guess that any cause has people who think they are standing
up for the cause, but actually detract from it.  I do think there is a 
difference between boldness and fool hardiness. Sometimes we don't always
recognize which is which. On the other hand, our concern should not be
about what people think of us in particular, but rather, are we offering to
them the truth about Yeshua who is Life for humanity.

Leslie

RE.0

	Each person must have a clear conscience before the Lord. Maybe the
Lord told Him to do that. I don't know.

	However, many times it is easier to "preach" in an open public
forum than to witness to your family, friends, and co-workers. People you
meet on the street don't know how you live. Family, friends, and 
co-workers see how you act and hear how you speak in your daily life. 

In other words, they can be tougher to convince, especially when your 
talk doesn't match your walk.

ace

    Didn't Jesus speak down to this sort of public display?   Something about
    these people already having recieved their reward.  Naaa... I think that 
    was in regard to prayer.
    
    I wonder. If he were alive as a mortal today, Jesus walking through
    Harvard Square seeing this guy on the corner.  What would he say/do?  
    Would he stand up there next to him shouting and handing out pamphlets
    or tell this guy to pack his trash and go home.
    

>    I wonder. If he were alive as a mortal today, Jesus walking through
>    Harvard Square seeing this guy on the corner.  What would he say/do?  
>    Would he stand up there next to him shouting and handing out pamphlets
>    or tell this guy to pack his trash and go home.

    I think He would walk up to the "preacher", who seems to be a tortured
    soul, and make some sort of connection with him.  After JC left, the
    "preacher" would feel somehow different - slightly more at peace -
    rant on for a little while longer - get tired of it and leave.
    He'd leave a slightly happier, slightly more hopeful man.

    Tom Baker

My feelings are kind of mixed.

I admire the enthusiasm and raw conviction of the street corner evangelist.
On the other hand, I find myself rather unreceptive to the venue.  It tends
to be a bit of a spectacle, perhaps even somewhat annoying.

Shalom,
Richard

re .4

;    Didn't Jesus speak down to this sort of public display?   Something about
;    these people already having recieved their reward.  Naaa... I think that 
;    was in regard to prayer.

 Are you thinking of Matthew 6 verses 1-8 ?. Though it was in regard to prayer,
 the principal was not to blow ones trumpet in public. What are the motives of
 those who shout at corners, are they interested in reaching peoples hearts
 with the good news or making an outward sign of piety ?. If they are trully 
 interested in people then I would question their methods, as people don't 
 like being shouted at especially under such circumstances as a quiet
 afternoon shopping with the family. As 1 Corinthians 13:1 NWT reads "If I
 speak in the tongues of men and of angels but do not have love, I have 
 become a sounding [piece of] brass or a clashing cymbal." 

 There are better ways of getting someone interested in the good news, a
 genuine interest in them, listening to their needs, being curteous and 
 most importantly a smile.

;    I wonder. If he were alive as a mortal today, Jesus walking through
;    Harvard Square seeing this guy on the corner.  What would he say/do?  
;    Would he stand up there next to him shouting and handing out pamphlets
;    or tell this guy to pack his trash and go home.

 IMO he probably would leave the person alone, but use the reaction of 
 others as an opportunity to discreetly witness (speak) to them.

 Phil. 
 

    >are they interested in reaching peoples hearts
    > with the good news or making an outward sign of piety ?
    
    I can't believe that anyone with any level of intelligence could believe
    this is the best way to reach people.  Five minutes of the feedback I
    witnessed the other day should be MORE than enough indicate that 
    something's wrong with the method.  No.  There are most probably other
    motives or reasons for the display.  If one or two people happen to take
    notice and read a pamphlet, I'm sure the "street corner evangelist"
    would be happy.  But, if my guess is worth anything, I'm sure he'd get
    a much bigger thrill out of being cursed by the punks.
    
    -dave

Dave,

	Some of these folks are just plain zealous.  Some are over the edge
emotionally.  Some do seek the validation of being rejected, though probably
not consciously.

Shalom,
Richard

    
    Last year about this time I heard an interview on the radio with a 
    'street preacher' who was in Denver.  
    
    It was interesting to hear him since hearing 'street preachers' really
    makes my skin crawl.  But, what he had to say was interesting. 
    
    This man was 'saved' due to a street preacher.  And he has reach quite
    a number of people (some of who had abused him...).  He feels this is 
    a calling he has.  And he wants to be obedient to that calling.  And
    if he can reach even one person it is worth it.  
    
    So, while the street preaching may make most of us a little crazy, it 
    evidently does appeal to others. 
    
    Mary Jo 
    

    David Koresh and John Salvy said he had a calling too.  The actions are, 
    of course, radically disimilar.  Just interesting to note that the
    rationalizations were the same.
    
    Street preaching may result in the conversion of a few.  But it may also
    serve to fragment the christian community or turn away many who may
    have been "on the fence" about adopting christianity.  
    
    -dave

    
    Hi Dave,
    
    I don't think you can understand this but Christianity is not about
    ascending to or adopting a belief system.  Christianity is about
    following Jesus Christ, our living Savior and Lord, and only occurs by
    the grace and power of God as a gift of faith and spiritual birth. 
    Those who will believe and trust in Christ are not sitting on a fence,
    deciding whether to fall off on the side of life or the side of death,
    but are living in a grave already.
    
    All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.  The wages of sin
    is death.  Before God's saving act enables the sinner to believe, no
    sinner seeks after God, not one.
    
    jeff

    RE:  .12  Jeff

>    I don't think you can understand this but Christianity is not about
>    ascending to or adopting a belief system.  Christianity is about
>    following Jesus Christ, our living Savior and Lord, 

    I disagree.  Following Christ and the reasons behind it comprise
    a belief system.  It may be the "right/true" system, but it is
    still a system.

>    Those who will believe and trust in Christ are not sitting on a fence,
>    deciding whether to fall off on the side of life or the side of death,
>    but are living in a grave already.

    True.  Those who have decided have decided.  There are those who
    are not as focused as that and haven't really decided yet.

    I've been attending some ecumenical services in my area and have
    seen that many people approach Christianity in a much different
    manner than I do.  What I've heard mostly is "when you're feeling
    down you should take comfort in knowing that Jesus cares."  This
    doesn't speak to me and I wouldn't attend church if that was all
    I heard.

    Different people resonate with different things.  You might think
    that our church services are dry and too intellectual.  I find them
    inspiring.   I can allow that others need to approach God in a 
    different style from me.  Perhaps you can see that your style
    does not speak to everyone.  It's a question of style, not content.

    Tom Baker

re .12

;    All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.  The wages of sin
;    is death.  Before God's saving act enables the sinner to believe, no
;    sinner seeks after God, not one.

Jeff,

And yet God's Word admonishes....

"Seek ye the LORD, all ye meek of the earth, which have wrought his judgment;
seek rightousness, seek meekness: it may be ye shall be hid in the day of the
LORD's anger." Zephaniah 2:3 KJV

This scripture is highlighting the need to seek God before the sinner sees
the saving hand of God Almighty. Can someone who is unrepentant be saved?.

I admit that it was God who took the initative, but the sinner must seek
repentance. Otherwise, the good news will have little effect  (compare
Matthew 4:17, Matthew 13:3-23, Acts 2:38, 2 Corinthians 2:3-4).

As Acts 17:30 KJV reads "And the times of this ignorance God winked at;
but now commandeth all men every where to repent:" To repent, or turn
around, can only be done by someone who recognises their sinful state 
and the need to seek God. 

Phil.

    
    God makes it all possible.  Faith, repentance, justification, adoption,
    sanctification, and glorification are all God's work through the grace
    of our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ.  
    
    Maran tha
    
    jeff

    re: basenote
    
    John the Baptist was not looked upon favorably, either.  He preached
    loudly and boldly, and no doubt was looked upon by many to be a
    "weirdo" or a fanatic.
    
    Perhaps the street preachers of today are ridiculed and demeaned
    because society has been trained to look upon these individuals in a
    negative light.  Some may turn away due to what is being preached (hits
    close to home), some may turn away because they are embarrased for him
    (because of how they think he looks to others); others may actually
    ignore the vessel and hear the words.  If what he preaches is of God,
    then it will have an effect. 
    
    Of course, some street preachers may be crazy, too.  8^)  
    
    I wish I had that kind of faith and boldness, personally.  To care so
    little about how the world sees me.  Not that I'd be standing on a street 
    corner preaching, but I'm sure I could make use of such boldness in other 
    areas of life, to further God's will. 
    
    
    -steve

Re .12 (Jeff)

>(Christianity)...only occurs by
>the grace and power of God as a gift of faith and spiritual birth.
>Those who will believe and trust in Christ are not sitting on a fence,

The "gift" part together with the "Those who will believe" part makes it
all sound rather Calvanistic (as in predestination).  

No matter, I suppose one could claim that the decision lies in deciding 
whether or not to ask for the gift.  And so, if someone is deciding whether 
to ask god for this gift, then sees the street precher and decides not to ask, 
did the preacher do service to christianity?

Re .15

>God makes it all possible.  Faith, repentance, justification, adoption,
>sanctification, and glorification are all God's work through the grace
>of our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ.

Ummmmm.... and war and disease and crime and pollution too?  If God created
everything, did he not create all of this too?  If he created man who
created these things, is not God ultimately responsible? 

-dave

    RE: -.1  -dave
    
    > war and stuff being God's responsibility.
    
    Yup.  Even things that we perceive as being evil are frequently the
    tools of God.  If there were no problems there would be nothing to move
    you towards God.  I have faith that God knows what He's doing.
    
    I'm sure you've had experiences that seemed bad/evil at the time but
    that ultimately made you grow and mature and turn more towards God.
    
    Tom Baker

Hi Dave,

>(Christianity)...only occurs by
>the grace and power of God as a gift of faith and spiritual birth.
>Those who will believe and trust in Christ are not sitting on a fence,

>>The "gift" part together with the "Those who will believe" part makes it
>>all sound rather Calvanistic (as in predestination).  

This is Biblical Christianity, the only kind there is.

>>No matter, I suppose one could claim that the decision lies in deciding 
>>whether or not to ask for the gift.  And so, if someone is deciding whether 
>>to ask god for this gift, then sees the street precher and decides not to ask, 
>>did the preacher do service to christianity?

God gives faith.  God  removes the blinders of those dead in trespass and
sin.  God brings to faith those who will believe and therefore the actions of 
men do not thwart God's plans.


>>Re .15

>God makes it all possible.  Faith, repentance, justification, adoption,
>sanctification, and glorification are all God's work through the grace
>of our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ.

>>Ummmmm.... and war and disease and crime and pollution too?  If God created
>>everything, did he not create all of this too?  If he created man who
>>created these things, is not God ultimately responsible? 

>>-dave

God is not the author of evil.  Evil flows from the heart of man and the
dominion of Satan and his servants.  It is our wickedness in our unbelief
and unrighteousness which is the source and root of all evil, including
war and crime.

But God is certainly ultimately responsible for it all.  And He has made
a way, through the gospel of Jesus Christ, where individuals may be saved
from their proper punishment for their sins.  And then there is the judgement
day when all will be held accountable for their deeds.  He will sort it all
out then and it will be just.

jeff

>This is Biblical Christianity, the only kind there is.

These folks have even been given their own private quarters in Heaven, from
where they never venture out.

Richard

    What do you mean, Richard?  
    
    jeff