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Conference lgp30::christian-perspective

Title:Discussions from a Christian Perspective
Notice:Prostitutes and tax collectors welcome!
Moderator:CSC32::J_CHRISTIE
Created:Mon Sep 17 1990
Last Modified:Fri Jun 06 1997
Last Successful Update:Fri Jun 06 1997
Number of topics:1362
Total number of notes:61362

996.0. "I have overcome the world" by CSC32::J_CHRISTIE (God's rascal) Fri Nov 11 1994 00:13

    
    John 16:33  [Jesus speaking] These things I have spoken unto you,
    that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have
    tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.
    
    What did Jesus mean when he said, "I have overcome the world"?
    
    Shalom,
    Richard

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996.1Jesus set the example to follow closelyRDGENG::YERKESSbring me sunshine in your smileFri Nov 11 1994 11:4383
re .996.0

        Richard,

	To be concise, He didn't allow the world to squeeze him into it's mold.

	1 John 5:15-17 NWT throws some light on this "Do not be loving either 
	the world or the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the 
	love of the Father is not in him; because everything in this world - 
	the desire of the flesh and the desire of the eyes and the showy 
	display of one's means of life - does not originate with the Father,
	but originates with the world. Furthermore, the world is passing away 
	and so it's desire, but he that does the will of God remains forever."

	Additionally, many look to worldly politicians to solve mankinds 
	problems, however the Bible indicates that it is only God's kingdom 
	that will bring peace and an end to suffering and injustice that we 
	see today (compare Matthew 6:9,10) and it will replace all the man 
	made worldly governments (Daniel 2:44). Therefore, to be no part of 
	the world is to follow Jesus' example of being neutral when it comes 
	to worldly politics, as seen by his fleeing when the people wanted to 
	make him king (John 6:15). He could have reasoned that he might have
	reached more people as and earthly king, but he refused political
	office.

	Here are some comments from historians on how the the early Christians 
	imitated Jesus' example of neutrality:

	"Eary Christianity was little understood and was regarded with
	little favor by those who ruled the pagan world... Christians 
	refused to share certain duties of Roman citizens... They would
	not hold political office." - On the Road to Civilization, A
	World History (Philadelphia, Chicago, etc.; 1937) Albert K
	Heckel and James G Sigman, pp 237,238.

	"Zealous Christians did not serve in the armed forces or accept
	political offices." World History, The Story of Man's Achievements
	(River Forest Ill.; 1962) Habberton, Roth and Spears, p117.

	"While among Romans it was considered the highest honor to possess
	the privileges of Roman citizenship, the Christians anounced that
	they were citizens of heaven. They shrank from public office and
	military service." 'Persecution of the Christians in Gaul, AD 177'
	by F.P.G. Guizot, former prime minister of France, vol III of The
	Great Events by Famous Historians (New York; 1905), Rosssiter Johnson,
	ed., p246.
	
	"The Christians were strangers and pilgrims in the world around them;
	their citizenship was in heaven; the kingdom to which they looked
	was not of this world, The consequent want of interest in public
	affairs came thus from the outset to be a noticeable feature of
        Christianity." Christianity and the Roman Government (London; 1925)
	E.G. Hardy, Principal of Jesus college, Oxford, p39.

	"The Christians stood aloof and distinct from the state, as a priestly
	and spiritual race, and Christianity seemed able to influence civil
	life only in that manner which, it must be confessed, is the purest,
	by practically endeavouring to instil more and more of holy feeling
	into the citizens of the state." The History of the Christian Religion
	and Church, During the First Three Centuries (New York; 1848),
	Dr Augustus Neander, translated from the German by H. J. Rose, p168.

	These quotations are compiled in a book called "Make Sure of All
	Things Hold Fast to What is Fine" p353-354 under the subheading
	'Early Christians avoided all political involvement'. They help
	one to see how they interpretted Jesus' command to be no part of
	the world.

	Phil.

	BTW Mattew 6:9,10 NWT reads "You must pray, then, this way: '"Our 
	Father in the heavens, let your name be sanctified. Let your kingdom
	come. Let your will take place as in heaven, also upon earth."

	Daniel 2:44 NWT "And in the days of those kings the God of heaven will
	set up a kingdom that will not be brought to ruin. And the kingdom 
	itself will not be passed on to any other people. It will crush and
	put an end to all these kingdoms, and it itself will stand to times
	indefinite;"

	John 6:15 NWT "Therefore Jesus, knowing they were about to come and
	sieze him to make him king, withdrew again into the mountain alone."

996.2On top of it all.VNABRW::BUTTONAnother day older and deeper in debtFri Nov 11 1994 12:0320
	Re: .01 Phil

        > 1 John 5:15-17 NWT throws some light on this "Do not be loving either 
	> the world or the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the 
	> love of the Father is not in him; because everything in this world - 
	> the desire of the flesh and the desire of the eyes and the showy 
	> display of one's means of life - does not originate with the Father,
	> but originates with the world. Furthermore, the world is passing away 
	> and so it's desire, but he that does the will of God remains forever."

	But the same John wrote: 

	"For God so loved the world that he sent his only begotten son..."

	I think Jesus was simply saying: "I am on top of things", just as
	you or I might say "I haved mastered my job" or "I have myself
	under control."

	Greetings, Derek
996.3CSLALL::HENDERSONDig a little deeperFri Nov 11 1994 12:1730

RE:   <<< Note 996.2 by VNABRW::BUTTON "Another day older and deeper in debt" >>>
                             -< On top of it all. >-



>   	But the same John wrote: 

>	"For God so loved the world that he sent his only begotten son..."


     Yes He did.  And much of that world, for whom He gave His only begotten
     son, out and out rejected Him to persue their own sinful interests.
     Jesus overcame that world and its sinful persuits.


>	I think Jesus was simply saying: "I am on top of things", just as
>	you or I might say "I haved mastered my job" or "I have myself
>	under control."


   I believe He was saying..."folks, this ol' world is a real mess..I love 
   them, but they don't love me, and they aren't going to love you..but, 
   I have overcome it, and you can too, through me."




 Jim