Conference lgp30::christian-perspective

    November 21, 1992.  There was no joy in Mudville but there was
    definitely the saddest sadness!!!!
    
    -Jack  

    .1  Off hand, I don't recall the significance of November 21, 1992.
    Is it something personal?
    
    Shalom,
    Richard
    

    The winner...by such and such electoral votes...our new CiC...

I believe the election was on the second Tuesday of the month, not the
21st.  Did the electoral college vote on the 21st?

Anyway, the '92 election gave me nothing but joy.  The only thing that
will make me sad is if the Republicans win control of Congress, or if
the Democrats continue to back down in the face of the conservative menace.

				-- Bob

    Yes Bob, then government can think for us again because we are
    incapable of thinking for ourselves..
    
    -Jack

re Note 983.5 by AIMHI::JMARTIN:

>     Yes Bob, then government can think for us again because we are
>     incapable of thinking for ourselves..
  
        I never realized you were such an anarchist, Jack.  (With
        logic like that, one could justify the repeal of *all* laws
        regulating behavior of any kind.)

        Bob

    Ha ha ha...
    
    I have always said it isn't a matter of who's more trustworthy, that is
    a given.  The current cabinet have all prospered during the "Decade of
    Greed".  That's the funny part.
    
    The real issue is who do we distrust the most?!  It is the nature of
    all political systems.  I've already had my fill of 45+ years of
    Kennedy types running the Congress.  
    
    -Jack

    So, lemme see if I've got this right, Jack.  Based on the question posed
    in the basenote, Bush-Quayle was to you your most joyous joy?
    
    Well, I can't say that about anyone who's ever made it to office!
    
    Sometimes I've been pleased, but a joyous joy?  Never!
    
    Shalom,
    Richard
    
    PS  I, too, think you're off on the date being November 21.
    

  >>      PS  I, too, think you're off on the date being November 21.
    
    You're probably right.
    
    No, Bush/Quayle wouldn't have been my joyest joy.  Not even Reagan
    would be my joyest joy.  I should rejoice that God placed Clinton there
    for His purposes, but my lack of faith sometimes keeps me from doing
    this.
    
    If the democrats were appointed to take the White House, my human,
    finite mind tells me that God could have placed somebody more worthy,
    and the American public could have used more discernment in choosing
    a leader.  
    
    -Jack

>    If the democrats were appointed to take the White House, my human,
>    finite mind tells me that God could have placed somebody more worthy,
>    and the American public could have used more discernment in choosing
>    a leader.  

So why didn't he?

Steve

    Hey, why did God appoint leaders like Manassah, Saul, Rehoboam, and
    other misfits?  Who knows other than to say it was part of His
    plan!!!
    
    -Jack

    .11  It's simple, Jack.  God is the product of a dysfunctional family.
    

    I really wish the basenote question was being addressed in other than
    a flippant way.
    
    Shalom,
    Richard
    

When we become emotionally attached to a person or activity it can be
emotionally devastating when we are rejected by that person, or when we
begin to realize that the activity that once gave us pleasure now brings
us nothing but pain.  Divorce, loss of one's job (especially being fired
for cause), being sexually or physically abused by someone we respected,
death of a loved one - these all all major traumatic events in a person's
life.

Richard, has there been a recent event in your life that prompted this
note?  (Don't feel obligated to answer if you'd rather keep it private.)

				-- Bob

 I'll go along in part with Bob's first sentence.  I was involved with someone
 who brought more joy into my life than I had had in years.  That the involve-
 ment was extramarital on my part did not matter (at the time).  I was "happy"
 and every minute we were together was wonderful, no matter how that minute
 was spent.  Then one day, I realized just what had happened.  That joy,
 turned into profound sadness that will be with me til the Lord calls me
 home.



Jim

    Despite the CiC's use of American young men as cannon fodder for his
    own political gain, the joy comes next month when this pot-smoking 
    womanizer will become a lame duck with only 2 years left to do nothing!

.14 No, Bob.  In fact, I first saw the question asked in a Ziggy cartoon, of all
places.  It just rang true that where we place our greatest emotional investment
is where we risk our greatest loss.

This is illustrated extremely well in a book called "The Little Prince" and
in the film "Shadowlands."

.16  It was Jack's God who put the current administration into office.
The President of the United States is more than a CiC (a military
rank), thank God.
    
Shalom,
Richard

>.16  It was Jack's God who put the current administration into office.
    
    how true.  If he stays in there, I guess God is going to fulfill
    Revelations sooner than I expected.

    .18  I really doubt it, but we'll see.
    
    My take on the apocalyptic writings is not very intense, but I do know
    that the Revelation (or the Revelation of St. John the Divine) is not
    plural.
    
    Shalom,
    Richard
    

Re: .16 Mike

>    the joy comes next month when this pot-smoking 
>    womanizer will become a lame duck with only 2 years left to do nothing!

If there's one thing the Republicans are good at, it's gridlock.  If
that's what the American people want then voting Republican is certainly
the way to go - they'll get the government they deserve.

				-- Bob

>    that the Revelation (or the Revelation of St. John the Divine) is not
>    plural.
    
    yeah but the revelations within Revelation are plural ;-)

>If there's one thing the Republicans are good at, it's gridlock.  If
    
    How is that when the Dems have dominated Congress for at least the last
    25 years?
    
>that's what the American people want then voting Republican is certainly
>the way to go - they'll get the government they deserve.
    
    Such a stalemate is addition.  Clintoon(tm) has done enough damage to
    this country and the freedoms of its citizens.  It's time to return
    basic civil rights to the people.
    
    Mike

Re: .22 Mike
    
>    How is that when the Dems have dominated Congress for at least the last
>    25 years?
    
There's this little thing called the filibuster rule.  The Republicans
have used it frequently, especially in the last few weeks (Dole was
juggling five filibusters at once the last I heard).  It's surprising that
the Democrats have accomplished as much as they have in this Congress
considering that there are 42 Republicans in the Senate and it takes only
41 votes to block legislation by filibustering it.

In theory, if everyone in Congress always voted along party lines, the
Democrats and Republicans would have equal political power even though the
Democrats have majorities in both houses of Congress and the president is
a Democrat.  No law could be passed unless both the Republicans and the
Democrats agreed to it.

In reality, of course, politicians don't always vote along party lines.
The word "Democrat" is not synonymous with "liberal" and the word
"Republican" is not synonymous with "conservative".  That's why the
Democrats were able to pass things like the crime bill, which most
Republicans opposed.  It's also why the Democratic "domination" of
Congress doesn't mean very much: there are Democrats and there are
Democrats, and they don't always agree with each other.

I suspect that you're right that the Democrats are going to be stymied
over the next couple of years, as the Republicans gain either a majority
in the Senate or a cloture-proof minority and they pick up a lot of seats
in the House.  The Republicans won't be able to accomplish much either,
since even if they gain majorities in both the House and the Senate they
won't have enough votes to override a presidential veto.

That's one of the problems with the American political system: there are a
lot of people with their foot on the brake pedal and not very many people
with their foot on the accelerator.  It works both ways, of course: it's
nice when the other side can't accomplish their objectives, but it's not
so nice where your side can't accomplish anything either.

				-- Bob

    Filibusters and vetoes keep each branch in check.  I thank God for
    filibusters as many of the bills being presented are simply budget
    busters...nothing less.
    
    -Jack

    I changed my mind.  I want Clinton to do whatever he wants and get
    re-elected.  I want to look up and see my redemption draweth nigh ;-)

    There is much about the US that makes me sad.
    
    Clinton is just another symptom.  So was Bush.  So was Reagan.
    
    Much of my saddness comes from caring, which, I believe, is an element
    of the basenote question.
    
    Like my conservative friends and foes, I think our priorities as a
    nation are all messed up.  Where we differ is on what we believe those
    priorities should be and, most distinctly, how they should be implemented.
    
    Shalom,
    Richard
    

    
    I've heard it said that the greatest pain comes from the 
    removal of pleasure.

    .27  Why, that has kind of a Zen ring to it.
    
    Shalom,
    Richard
    

    Pain comes from attachment, joy from detachment.
    
    	Agostino

    .29
    
    I find a great deal of joy in my spouse, children, and friends.  I'm
    kind of emotionally attached to them.  (Or perhaps I should use the
    term 'bonded')
    
    Shalom,
    Richard
    

    .30
    
    But if you loss a friend ...? If you think that is possible to loss a
    friend, are still you happy? I mean, is your joy egoistic or not? Is it
    important for you that they are there, or for theirselves? 
    
    Peace
    
    	Agostino

.31

Losing a friend or a loved one is perhaps a selfish loss of joy.  But
having friends and loved ones is a joy I'm not willing to deprive myself
of in order to avoid sorrow.

Shalom,
Richard

    .32
    
    Hi, Richard.
    
    I think you (and me, too) have not to deprive yourself of having
    friends. I think we should love them avoiding to become attached to
    them. You should enjoy your joy with mindfulness without craving for
    it.
    
    Peace
    
    	Agostino

    .33
    
    Hmmmm.  Craving.  I wouldn't say I ever had a craving for my
    friends.
    
    Shalom,
    Richard
    

    .34
    
    So ... no problem :-)
    
    Peace
    
    	Agostino