Conference lgp30::christian-perspective

  I think its a good thought, but from my point of view I would question 
  whether it should be part of the baptismal ceremony.
  
  Its a very subjective question. The person might see abortion (for instance)
  as a violation of the "foetus" life and feel compelled to picket an abortion
  clinic. On the other hand they might want to march in a gay rights parade.
  Its too general as it appears.

  Are infants baptised in the UMC, do the godparents answer for the infant?
  If so, will the infant have opportunity to confirm the vicarious committment 
  at their confirmation?

  My thoughts

  Hank

    Richard,
    
    That is a wonderful statement to include in the UMC ritual.  
    
    Is that a standard part of the UMC baptism ritual.
    
                           Patricia

re Note 969.0 by CSC32::J_CHRISTIE:

> One of the questions asked during the ceremony of baptism in the United
> Methodist Church is this:
> 
> "Do you accept the freedom and power that God gives you to
>    resist evil, injustice, and oppression
>    in whatever form they present themselves?"
  
        How long has this statement in this form been a part of the
        rite?

        (It sounds kind of "modern" -- and I hope you know me well
        enough to know that I mean no criticism in this respect.)

        Bob

re Note 969.1 by DNEAST::DALELIO_HENR:

>   Its a very subjective question. The person might see abortion (for instance)
>   as a violation of the "foetus" life and feel compelled to picket an abortion
>   clinic. On the other hand they might want to march in a gay rights parade.
>   Its too general as it appears.
  
        I think that part of its power is its generality.

        It sets a principle, rather than laying out detailed rules. 
        As a principle it calls on the Christian to thoughtfully and
        prayerfully consider how God calls them to live out this
        principle in the life they have been given.

        Of course principles can be misapplied, but even 100-page
        legal documents can be misapplied!  That is the nature of
        natural language (and which is why brevity is often a
        virtue).

        Bob

RE:               <<< Note 969.0 by CSC32::J_CHRISTIE "Crossfire" >>>
                   -< Resist evil, injustice and oppression >-


>How would you take it?


 I'd say thank you very much and walk out.  I don't see such a requirement
 in any Biblical baptism.




Jim

.1

>  Are infants baptised in the UMC(?),

Yes.

>do the godparents answer for the infant?

Parents, usually, and others present willing to accept the responsibility.

>  If so, will the infant have opportunity to confirm the vicarious committment 
>  at their confirmation?

Yes, at confirmation.

Shalom,
Richard

.3

>        How long has this statement in this form been a part of the
>        rite?

To be perfectly honest, I don't know.  It is included in the relatively
new hymnal (less than 10 years old, as I recall).

Resisting evil, injustice and oppression is deeply imbedded in the Jewish
faith and affirmed by the gospel of Jesus Christ.  Jesus didn't institute
the notion, but neither did he institute baptism.

Shalom,
Richard

 Hmm...I thought Matthew 28:19 mentioned Baptism (and they were Jesus'
 words).





Jim

    .9  Come on, Jim!  Pay attention!  I didn't say Jesus didn't
    advocate baptism!  Reread what I said.
    
    Furthermore, there's no small argument as to whether Jesus meant
    baptizing  (immersing, as with water) people in the name of Father,
    the Son and the Holy Spirit, or whether he meant baptizing them
    (in water) in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy
    Spirit.  But this is grist for another topic.
    
    Shalom,
    Richard

 RE .11


 My apologies for misunderstanding.  Who, then, instituted Baptism?





Jim

    According to a course I took in New Testament history a few years
    back, the ritual of baptism was practiced by some Jews and can be
    found in other religions, including some of what were called the
    'Mystery Religions'.
    
    Shalom,
    Richard
    

 Oh.

    .16  You disagree?  On principle?  Because you don't like me, or what
    I believe, or have to say?
    

 I believe that God institued the ordinance of Baptism..




Jim

    .20  Believe me, I didn't plan it that way.  At least it's still
    tangentally related to the basenote.
    
    Shalom,
    Richard