Conference lgp30::christian-perspective

    A popular interpretation of the Adam and Eve myth is that it represents
    the dawning of human consciousness.  As humans evolved, the ability to
    think for oneself evolved as did human free will.  Animals act out of
    instinct and the law of the jungle emerges from animalistic
    instinctionual behavoir.  Humans beings make decisions about what they
    wear, what they eat, who they worship, when they engage in sex, who
    they have relationships with.
    
    Humans have the ability to understand what is good and bad and to make
    conscious decisions about what is good or bad.  Adam and Eve eating the
    apple is humans decision to take responsibility for themselves and use
    there freedom to choose what is good and what is bad.  When we have the
    ability to choose what is good, we also have the ability to choose what
    is bad.  With Freedom and Responsibility comes the ability to screw up
    and "sin".
    
    Would we choose to live without Freedom and Responsibility and without
    the potential for sin or with Freedom and Responsibility.
    
    Patricia

    Another interpretation of the Adam and Eve myth is a feminist
    interpretation.  The Serpent is a symbol in Pagan religions of the
    Goddess.  The Adam and Eve story represents the time in human
    consciousness when The Divine moves from being worshipped as a woman to
    the Divine as a Man.
    
    In the myth, Eve chooses the advice of the Female Goddess rather than
    the Male God.  The "Goddess" tells her, that The Male God will not kill
    her if she eats the fruit of good and evil, but that she will have
    knowledge that the Male God wants to reserve for himself.
    
    Even has Faith in the Divine as she images the Divine and follows her
    advice.  With knowledge of good and evil comes responsibility for the
    choices we make.  When a woman chooses to make decisions for herself
    she no longer lives in childlike dependency on a man to make everything
    pleasant and fairy tale like as long as she pays 100% obedience to the
    men in her life.

    This is an explanation from my minister regarding the Male version.  I
    do not fully understand it but post it as I do.
    
    The Adam and Eve myth represents the movement of History from a time
    controlled by women and the Female Diety to the emergence of Men as
    independent.  At one time Men's role in procreation was not well
    understood and all life came from Women.  The Goddess gave birth to all
    of creation.  Men were off hunting most of the time, often far away
    from the home and hearth.  The earliest forms of tribal government were
    dominated by women who stayed close to home, raised the children and
    the staple foods.  The Adam and Eve myth represents Man's understanding
    of his own role in procreation and the movement away from a Female
    Deity to a Male deity.
    

    What I would like to encourage is discussion of the story from a mythic 
    perspective.  What is the mythic value of this story.  What other
    interpretations have you heard and how have they been valuable to you?
    I invite discussion of these interpretations from a mythic perspective.
    Are they useful interpretations, what implications do the
    interpretations have, how do these myths impact our lives?
    
    My personal premise is that myth is valuable and necessary for humans
    and impacts us on multiple levels.  By defining myself as Christian, I
    am acknowledging the impact of Christian stories and myths as part of
    my psychic and spiritual development.  Adam and Eve is the myth of our
    beginnings as humans, as spiritual beings.  
    
    What does the story mean?
    
    964 or any other note can be used by those who want to debate the
    viability of these stories considered myth or by those who want to discuss
    the stories from a historic perpective.

    I would suggest that the term myth here is not being used in the
    the ordinary sense, but more in the specialized sense.
    
    I, too, tend to see the Adam and Eve stories (and there are more than
    one) as allegorical, as even the name "Adam" seems to imply.
    
    Shalom,
    Richard
    

    Richard,
    
    Can you help me to understand the difference between allegory and myth
    in the Adam and Eve Story and how you find allegorical meaning in the
    story.
    
    Paul also seems to use the story as allegory.  Adam for Paul becomes
    the archetypal man as in fact Jesus also does.  (Romans 5:11-21)
    Humans participate first in Adams fallness and then in Jesus.
    
    Are the two in fact combined?  If myth is sacred story, then the
    allegory is a deeper way of comprehending the story.
    
                                   Patricia

    Patricia:
    
    I for one brought up the term allegory because of your first few
    replies.  If you recall in Galatians 5, Paul uses the allegory of
    Abrahams relationship with the bondwoman (Hagar), and the free woman
    (Sarah).  He allegorically depicted the difference between law and 
    grace.  He depicted law with bondage, and grace with freedom.  These
    in themselves have deep Spiritual significance, yet they are not myth
    but allegorical. 
    
    If you are seeking meaning in the Adam and Eve account and are trying
    to depict the actions as having significant meaning in our current
    condition, then to me it is more allegorical than myth.
    
    Peace,
    
    -Jack

        I moved a string of notes starting with 963.8 to topic 964
        (the "general discussion" topic) since they clearly were not
        supportive.

        Bob

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Note 964.38       Adam and Eve as Myth (for general discussion)         38 of 39
CSC32::J_CHRISTIE "Crossfire"                        12 lines   8-SEP-1994 16:24
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    Actually, an allegory need not be based on actual events.  What is
    important in an allegory, as I see it, is the meaning of the story
    and not the story itself.  An allegory is a teaching tool, not unlike
    the parable.
    
    Genesis is believed by scholars to have been originated after Exodus
    as a kind of backfill introduction.  I think it's helpful to see Genesis
    in this context.
    
    Shalom,
    Richard
    

    Richard,
    
    I agree with you that it is the meaning of the story and not the story 
    itself that is meaningful.  I believe that the stories themselves do
    not so much reveal the Divine to us but point us to a relationship to
    the Divine.
    
    When Jesus tells a story about a child leaving home and sowing wild
    oats so to speak, and the parents Joy at the child's return, it does
    not matter whether the story is Historical or literary.  The message is
    clear.  So also with Myth.  
    
    It does not matter whether God came down to earth and physically had a
    wrestling match with Jacob.  What matters is that the story has a 
    spiritual meaning for me and for you.
    
    I do have an easier time accepting allegory as a part of literature
    than as a part of a historic account.  For instance, if Adam is a real
    man, how could you and I participate in the sin that Adam commits.  If
    he is a archetype of the capacity of a human being to Sin, than each of
    us participate in that capacity.  
    
    I see allegory and myth going hand in hand.
    
    Patricia 
    

    There's a flavor of poetic allegory even within the classical Greek
    and Roman mythology.
    
    There's something allegorical about beauty (Aphrodite/Venus) giving
    birth to sensuous love (Eros/Cupid), for example.
    
    There's also something of an allegorical parallel that may be drawn
    between the story of Prometheus (the bringer of fire) and Christ (the
    bringer of light).
    
    Shalom,
    Richard
    

 Here are some observations ;

 Obviously, I dont have my hebrew texts (or english) here at my desk, so 
 this is from memory, which I (or someone else) can confirm later.

 Before Elohim cursed the The "serpent" he was classified as "a beast of the 
 field" which is the biblical classification of a warmblooded ruminating 
 furbearing animal with split hooves and is "legally" clean.
 
 Eve was not surprised when the "serpent" spoke to her.

 Adam and Eve were "enlightened" via the advice of the serpent while he 
 was still a "clean" mammal.

 After the curse the serpent became a coldblooded unclean reptile going
 on its "belly". The pit viper seeks the heat of blood and has a set
 of senses that humans do not have; infra-red "sight".

 The word "serpent" has a dual meaning in Hebrew ; serpent or "copper".
 Copper is forbidden in worship (as oppossed to gold and silver) under the 
 mosaic covenant. Although the descendants of Cain used it extensively.
 The only exception is the "brazen" serpent which Moses held up on a stick
 in the Hebrew camp, those who looked at it lived, those who did not died.

 "As Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son 
  of Man be lifted up. That whosoever believes in Him should not perish
  but have eternal life"   John 3:14-15 NKJV.

 Just a few observations.

 Hank 

Off the topic, slightly, but what does SRO mean?

Steve

    It means Sympathetic Responses Only(i think).
    
    For me in this entry it means that I desire to discuss the story from a
    mythical, allegorical, symbolic perspective and did not want to have
    the discussion bogged down with whether that is a legitimate way to
    view the story.  I seek meaning in the Bible as a work of literature
    and am very interested in how others find meaning in the Bible as
    spiritual literature.

    Supportive Replies Only = express your disagreement in some other
    string.
    
    Richard