Conference lgp30::christian-perspective

The following I wrote sometime back (it was posted in the other conference)
alot of it's content is taken from a book Insight to the Scriptures, if I 
remember rightly, under the heading of happiness.

Happiness is a state of well being, which is characterised by a relative
permenance of emotion ranging from contentment to intense joy in living,
and by the natural desire for this to continue. It differs from mere 
pleasure, which may come about simply through chance contact or stimulation.
Hence, 2 Timothy 3:4 which talks of what people will be like in the last 
days reads "lovers of pleasures rather than lovers of God.". So one can be 
really happy all the time, but one must put God first before the pursuit 
of pleasure , Matthew 6:33. 

What is the basis for real happiness?

Only the blessing of Jehovah God will bring everlasting happiness. This true
happiness is realized on the basis of love of God and faithful service to
him. 

One does not gain happiness through amassing great amounts of wealth or power.
Jesus said "There is more happiness in giving than there is in receiving."
(Acts 20:35 NWT) The one who gives consideration to the lowly one, thereby 
enjoying happiness of giving, is promised: "Jehovah himself will guard him
and preserve him alive. He will be pronounced happy in the earth." (Psalms
41:1,2 NWT) 

Other things that contribute to true happiness are:-

Knowledge of God and wisdom from him, Proverbs 2:6; 3:13,18 

excepting God's correction and discipline , Psalm 94:12

Someone who is truly happy will:-

Put his trust in Jehovah , Proverbs 16:20

Delights and walks in His law , Psalms 1:1,2 ; 112:1

Observe justice , Psalms 106:3

Fear God , Psalms 128:1 	


Phil.

    Albert Schweitzer said something to the effect that the only people
    who find happiness are those who've learned to serve others.
    
    I think this is basically true, and I think this is part of the reason
    so many continue looking for happiness instead of finding it.
    
    Shalom,
    Richard
    

    I've heard it said that God is more concerned with our Holiness then
    our Happiness.
    
    What do you think?

If God torments sinners for eternity in hell, that would seem to be the case.

				-- Bob

    I would say that a meaningful life, a life really worth living,
    would not necessarily equate to a life of unrelenting happiness,
    a life sheltered from sorrow and suffering.
    
    Shalom,
    Richard
    

    > I've heard it said that God is more concerned with our Holiness then
    > our Happiness.
    
    It's probably true, but that shouldn't result in a conflict for anyone
    here in C-P. :^) I mean happiness isn't mutually exclusive from
    holiness. I think it would be better to say the God is concered about
    our happiness through holiness... sounds more inviting.. more inclusive
    that way. Less confrontational -- either or.
    
    Eric

re .3

Nancy,

;I've heard it said that God is more concerned with our Holiness then
;our Happiness.

I would say that, holiness brings happiness to God fearing persons.
That is contentment (or happiness) from knowing that they are doing
the things that are pleasing to their God. 

Jesus opened his Sermon on the mount with the words "Happy, are those
conscious of their spiritual need, since the kingdom of the heavens
belongs to them." Matthew 5:3 NWT. The NWT reference Bible states that
"Happy" is the Greek word Makarioi and in Latin ,beati, the basis for 
the term "beatitudes" which I believe is used in the KJV. Interestingly,
I looked up "beatitude" in the dictionary and it has the meaning of
"blessedness" which in turn has the meaning of "sanctity; joy". 

The footnote for "are those conscious of their spiritual need" could
alternativley mean "those who are beggars for the spirit."

So by seeking holiness, one in turn reaps happiness. In contrast the
world seeks other things such as materialism in gaining happiness,
but the pleasure gained is only fleeting. Unlike the lasting happiness
that comes from being obedient to Our Creator. As 1 Timothy 6:6-11 RSV
reads "There is great gain in godliness with contentment; for we brought
nothing into the world, and we cannot take anything out of the world; but
if we have food and clothing, with these will shall be content. But those
who desire to be rich fall into temptation, into a snare, into many 
senseless and hurtful desires that plunge men into ruin and destruction.
For the love of money is the root of all evils; it is through this craving
that some have wandered away from the faith and pierced their hearts with 
many pangs. But as for you, shun all this; aim at righteousness, godliness,
faith, love, steadfastness, gentleness."

By storing ones treasure in heaven where neither moth nor rust can consume.
One will have a treasure that can be continually drawn on for bringing 
lasting happiness.

Phil.

    .7
    
    I would agree with you except on your interpretation of the first
    beatitude... 
    
    "Poor in Spirit" can be defined as knowing your Strengths and
    Weaknesses = needs.  One who knows oneself very well and accepts
    oneself while striving to strengthen those weaknesses.
    
    If you look at the Beatitudes as STAIR steps, then you can see how the
    first beatitude lays the foundation for the latter.
    
    In His Love,
    Nancy

    RE: .8
    
    I have a different take on this. I feel that the "Poor in Spirit"
    means just what it says. Plain and simple.
    
    Thoses that have their spirit crushed by problems at work, children,
    and spouse can find comfort in Christ. 
    
    Goodness nows, I've had my spirit crushed more often than not....maybe
    thats why I take the message as written. The trickly part is to have
    Christ help you when you are poor in spirit. Often when feeling
    that way, you don't look to God.
    
    That's what makes the first beatitude so powerful for me.
    
    Marc H.

    There is harmony in our thoughts here Marc, I hope I can point them out
    to you.  
    
    Yes, take it as written, "Poor in Spirit"... and it is speaking of
    weakness.
    
    If a boulder is thrown at glass, it will crush through it, as glass is
    weaker then stone.  If a boulder is thrown at a stone, it will not go
    through the stone, as the stone is stronger.
    
    Happy is he who knows his strengths and weaknesses [areas that have
    been crushed] for he is comforted.  Comforted in what...in accepting
    himself in his weakness and allowing God to be his strength.
    
    Not sure if this explains it very well, but I tried.

    RE: .10
    
    Yup....on the same wavelength.
    
    Marc H.

re .8

Nancy,

Sorry but I don't see any major differences with what your saying and
"are those conscious of their spiritual need".

;    "Poor in Spirit" can be defined as knowing your Strengths and
;    Weaknesses = needs.  One who knows oneself very well and accepts
;    oneself while striving to strengthen those weaknesses.

We have been born into a gloomy world spiritually speaking, those 
recognising their "needs" (or conscious of it) will be attracted by God's 
spiritual light and will strive to walk in it.

Phil.   

    re:  <<< Note 892.2 by CSC32::J_CHRISTIE "Most Dangerous Child" >>>
    
      >  Albert Schweitzer said something to the effect that the only people
      >  who find happiness are those who've learned to serve others.
    
    
    
    Richard,
    
    But that is exactly what Jesus Christ (the Messiah) just did.
    His whole 33.5 years here on earth was servicing.
    
    In the first place, he dedicated his whole live in doing the
    will of his father [JHWH].
    In the second place, his ministry, already at the age of 12 years
    he was teaching (Scholars in the Torah and Tenach) in Temple.
    Things he learned from his father at the time he was in heaven
    far before his earthly live.
    
    After his baptising he serves the people of his nation at that time.
    Servicing like teaching them "The Good News of the Kingdom", healings,
    casting out evil spirits who took part of some of the people and a lot
    more.
    
    He was not only the greatest teacher ever lived but also the happiest
    person here on earth, in doing the will of his father, although he
    suffered like no one ever has suffered or will suffered.
    
    That's what is written (The Holy Scriptures) is for us to learn from.
    Only then (when we have learned an put it to practice) a person will
    taste  happiness. (Matth 7:12-13, The Golden Rule).
    
    Regards, 
    Alex
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    

    .13 ODOR
    
    I would agree that Jesus Christ exemplified the very thing Schweitzer
    was talking about.  I think Schweitzer also exemplified what Jesus
    Christ was talking about.
    
    Shalom,
    Richard
    

    I find that the thing that gives me the most happiness in this 
    life is service. Whether it be answering someones question over
    the phone, mailing an answer to someone, being a member of a
    school board, or just picking up supper on the way home. Those 
    things make me happy. Sometimes I "make time for myself" and so
    often it seems a bitter disappointment. But even the most frustrating
    of public meetings, and I've been at and/or run some very frustrating
    meetings, seems to bring a great satisfaction.

    			Alfred

 RE .15 (Alfred)



 Yes...my job involves customer service/satisfaction and I feel the best
 about myself when I leave at night having served a customer and solved
 their problem..same at church.  I'm an usher and I *love* serving in that
 capacity..helping the old folks in and out of their seats, making visitor
 feel comfortable..


 Jim

    .15
    
    Amen Alfred!  I believe you hit the nail on the head.  This world's
    psychology and many eastern religions teach that self is the key to
    deeper understandings.  I believe this to be a very dangerous partial 
    truth [imho].  Self actualization often times crosses over the line
    between self awareness [or poor in Spirit] to a godself false
    awareness... "I am in control, I am all knowing, I am empowered", are
    often statements that are given by therapists to people who have
    wounded spirits.  These are the statements that create a self-god
    prophecy/fulfillment that mis-directs the spiritual side.  Satan has a
    hayday with this mentality.  He then gives folks the nirvana they've
    been looking for, the feeling of empowerment, the feeling of
    in-control, the feeling of fulfillment... and tells them they now have
    a "deeper" understanding, a new spiritual plane has been obtained.  He
    then goes further to insert, well the blame for your behavior actually
    lies elsewhere, let's blame Mom, Dad, Past lives, etc., for how you
    behave today...
    
    This again leaves folks feeling like a weight has been lifted off their
    shoulders and that this euphoria has to be of God, because it feels
    good [no matter how you define God now, for he certainly has a broader
    meaning then Jehovah or Jesus, because you now have a deeper
    understanding].  The thing that really gets me here is that now people
    are spending their time, money and efforts into deeper self awarenesses
    and deeper empowerment and its non-ending.  The therapists, false
    religious leaders get their moneybags full, while leading a group of
    people straight to Hell.
    
    My God shall supply *all* my needs.  Proverbs 16:3 Commit they works
    unto the Lord and thy *thoughts* shall be established.
    
    Be not forgetful, God is not mocked, whatsoever a man sows that shall
    he also reap.
    
    If we confess our sins he is *faithful* and just to *forgive* us our
    sins.
    
    Granted what happens with a lot of people who have abusive or abandoned
    backgrounds is that they have taken some sin upon themselves that they
    DO NOT OWN.  But that does NOT relieve a person from their own sins.  
    
    OWNERSHIP awareness is the key to God's inner healing, which is
    permanent, not temporary.  Example:  
    
    My father sexually molested me... thought process as a child and into
    adulthood: "I am the one to blame, something must be wrong with me.  I
    am bad."  Later on become sexually promiscuous... this is sin.
    
    Therapist, "Well it's only natural that you would have acted out this
    way since your sexuality was stimulated so young."  
    
    Thus a person feels validated... exonerated from their behavior.  Now
    they can change that behavior because they no longer feel guilt or
    blame or take responsibility for said actions. WRONG!  It will happen
    again until you acknowledge that the only control you really have is
    over your choices to sin or not sin... God can direct the rest.
    
    Our will should be in submission to His will.  
    
    I was promiscuous because I allowed the power of sexuality to be my
    god.   
    
    This produces several scenarios and they may even seem contradictory,
    but they are very valid and happen:
    
    False Beliefs:
    
    1.  I am promiscuous, blame my father, never can get forgiveness or
    victory because, I don't own it... yet I own it.  So, I'm in an
    emotional tug-o-war.
    
    2.  I am promiscuous, blame myself, never can get forgiveness for it,
    because I don't own it. period.
    
    We need to OWN what we OWN and discard the rest to whomever owns it...
    
    Then FORGIVE... Forgiveness is the ONLY way to Heal and we must be able
    to not only forgive others, but allow God's forgiveness to wrap around
    our hearts and forgive ourselves.
    
    Folks the only HEALING that truly happens is through Jesus Christ's
    blood on the cross.  It covers everything.
    
    In His Love,
    Nancy
    

    ooops in my zeal actually forgot the closing thought.
    
    The process of taking ownership is NOT A LONG ONE... it is relatively
    short for one who is seeking restoration of heart through Jesus Christ.
    
    Happiness comes when one takes that healing, that restoration and
    serves others who come to partake of table of God who are in need.
    
    Serving others is the key to happiness... but we must die to self [real
    humility is not low self esteem].  
    
    I find that when one is "poor in Spirit", that humility and service
    comes next.
    
    :-)
    
    In His Love,
    Nancy

    
    Re.17
    
    That is an absolutely false understanding of eastern religions, Nancy.
    
    In fact, the concept of 'seva' - the Sanskrit word meaning 'service' 
    - is key to the message of Hinduism.  Swami Vivekananda, the first 
    swami to speak in the US 100 years ago has said, "Salvation and social 
    service are two sides of the same coin."  
    
    Cindy

    No, Cindy it is not a false assumption of eastern religions... it is
    what is being taught in many eastern-influenced therapy sessions today.
    
    I never said that service was not a part of eastern religion.  I know
    that it is... but the service again comes from within the god of
    themselves... no empowered through the Holy Spirit, but empowered by a
    spirit of [some divinity].

          
    It may be being taught, Nancy, but it's not true.  
    
    As for the rest...at this point, I give up.  Further discussion 
    on this would be a waste of time that I do not currently have.  
    Someday if you're willing to question your false assumptions 
    about eastern religions, see me.
    
    Cindy

    False assumptions?  I'd be willing to listen or read where you think
    there is a false assumption.  BTW, these were not assumptions speaking,
    they were actual experience... and discussion with others who practice
    Buddhism, Hinduism, and New Age.

    Jesus was considered a New_Ager at one time himself. ;-)
    
    Richard
    

    I just re-read .17, and indeed, it is about as accurate as a Moslem
    accusing Christians in believing in more than one God.
    
    This is not to say that .17 does not reflect your valid perceptions,
    Nancy.
    
    Richard
    

    Show me where it's in ERROR. 
    
    BTW, disagreement doesn't mean error.

        <<< LGP30::DKA300:[NOTES$LIBRARY]CHRISTIAN-PERSPECTIVE.NOTE;1 >>>
                 -< Discussions from a Christian Perspective >-
================================================================================
Note 659.16                  Christianity and Islam                     16 of 16
CSC32::J_CHRISTIE "Most Dangerous Child"             11 lines   8-APR-1994 17:55
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Note 892.25 MORALES_NA

	I'm going to politely decline your invitation.

	By the way, there are Moslems who really do claim most Christian
doctrine is polytheistic.  And try as you might to explain the trinity,
they won't be convinced of the error of their original perception.

Shalom,
Richard

re: Note 892.17 by Nancy "Sweet Spirit's Gentle Breeze" 

*sigh* the psychology issue again.  (maybe that should be *psygh* .-)

Nancy, I don't know where you found the therapists you worked with, but your 
description of what they do is quite outside the norm.

>"I am in control, I am all knowing, I am empowered"

I have never heard a psycologist tell anyone that they are in control or all 
knowing.  I have had then work with peple to discover their internam selves, 
but that is FAR from being in control or all knowing.  They try to help people
empower themselves, which basically boils down to having a clear and honest
view of themselves.  Not buried in shame, not egotistical.  Just honest.

>    Granted what happens with a lot of people who have abusive or abandoned
>    backgrounds is that they have taken some sin upon themselves that they
>    DO NOT OWN.  But that does NOT relieve a person from their own sins.  

Yes.  A good psychologist will work with a person to sift out what they own 
and what they do not own.
    
>    We need to OWN what we OWN and discard the rest to whomever owns it...

Again, YES.  That is what a good psychologist will help a person do.
    
>    Then FORGIVE... Forgiveness is the ONLY way to Heal and we must be able
>    to not only forgive others, but allow God's forgiveness to wrap around
>    our hearts and forgive ourselves.

I agree 100 %.
    
>    Folks the only HEALING that truly happens is through Jesus Christ's
>    blood on the cross.  It covers everything.

For Christians, yes.
    
Peace,

Jim

    .27  Eastern thought places some emphasis on self-control, also.
    But then, so did Paul.
    
    Shalom,
    Richard
    

    self control is not an issue, but control over everything is...
    
    We can no more control everything in our lives as we can the weather.
    
    Well, try sitting through some of John Bradshaw's sessions and you'll
    see all kinds of versions of EMPOWERMENT beyond decision making,
    CONTROL beyond behaviors, and KNOWLEDGE that creates the aura of
    superiority through the deeper things...
    
    One of the practices that is contra-biblical in my estimation, is the
    concept of RE-Parenting.... where one goes into a hypnotic state
    relives a trauma, emotion, etc., that left a scar and then reparents
    onesself in the right way... after all we all know what is best for
    ourselves or what would have felt better.
    
    This puts self in the place of God.  I have no problem with reliving
    the situation if it is still a problem in your life or a root issue
    causing sin to reign in your life, but God is the Father of all the
    most just, all compassionate, loving Father.
    
    Let's look at what God's word says after we've discovered the root and
    determine what the correct action if any should have happened.
    
    Example:  Stepsister takes littler sister out for a walk.  She's 15 and
    is really annoyed at having an 8 year old tagging on her heels.  She
    then meets up with one of her friends who wants to have a smoke, but
    doesn't want the 8 year old around to tell her father.  So she tells
    the 8 year old to go home.  The 8 year old says No, we're supposed to
    walk to the river and then back home.  The 15 year old slaps the 8 year
    old in the face and walks away.  As the 8 year old heads back she turns
    and sees the 15 year old smoking.
    
    The 8 year old is angry, scared, hurt and finds a hideaway.  She sits
    hidden in a bush in the back alley of where she lives... sometimes
    crying, sometimes lethargic, hours pass, it begins to get dark. She
    hears her Mom's worried voice calling her. Finally emerges with the 15
    year old standing next to her father and the 8 year's old Mom looks
    relieved as her daughter comes out.
    
    The questions begin,they go into their house.  The stepfather sits
    across from his wife and her daughter.  They've already heard the 15
    years old story of the 8 year old running away from her.
    
    As the little girl begins to say the truth, the stepfather jumps up off
    his seat backhands the little girl in the mouth, knocks her on the
    floor and her mouth begins to bleed.  He begins screaming at her that
    she's a little LIAR!  
    
    The 8 year old girl begins to shake and vomit, she feels as though her
    head will pop off, she HATES this man, she wishes she was big enough to
    kill him... then she looks at her mother who is 7 months pregnant and
    tells her she HATES her too for marrying this man.
    
    The man then grabs the girl throws her into the bedroom and locks the
    door from the outside.
    
    All of this little girl's life this experience created an anger inside
    of her a sense of being out of control and unsafe.  She grew to be
    angry and controlling.
    
    In the therapists office...hypnosis, the experience relived, then the
    therapists suggestion of reparenting oneself...  She begins to hold the
    little girl, to tell her she was good and truthful and worthy of love.
    
    This sounds good doesn't it?  But can anyone else besides me see the
    error in this process?
    
    

RE: Note 892.29 by Nancy "Sweet Spirit's Gentle Breeze" 

Briefly, you see replacement of God, I see partnership with God.

But we've been through this discussion before.  'nuf said by me.

Peace,

Jim

    .30
    
    Very accurate understanding of our differing views.  
    
    

    See new topic 894, "Christianity and Modern Psychology"
    
    Richard