Conference lgp30::christian-perspective

    RE: .1
    
    Did I miss a whole string of replies? Your date was last year......
    
    Now, what was the first thing to go?????
    
    
    Marc H.

    
    Good one, Richard!
    
    Cindy

    SIMPLE...  went to another string of notes and did a 
    
    set note ???.?? /note=858.1
    
    Right Richard??? :-)

    Actually, .1 was .0 of another string which had no replies to it
    and which had the same title as .0 of this string.  Since there
    were no replies and it seemed relevant, I moved it.
    
    Richard
    

True story --

One of my coworkers once stood up, leaned over the cubicle wall and asked,
"Hey, Richard!  Do you have a ruler?"

Almost by impulse I answered, "Yes, Christ Jesus."

;-}

Richard

Not living in a country which has lords as part of the government I really 
have little life experience to go on in defining what a "Lord::me" 
relationship.

Hmmm, since the *sort of* dual of Britain's House of Lords is the U.S.'s 
Senate, perhaps a lord is like a senator?

Jim

    RE: .7
    
    I have the same problem......the expression doesn't mean anything
    concrete to me, although I have heard it used often.
    
    Marc H.

    I think the House of Commons is more like the US Senate. The House of
    Lords are non-elected and not really anything to do with the Government
    of the time. Any bill of law usually has to be passed by the House of
    Lords after it's been through the Commons before it can become law.
    
    I think that calling God Lord is comes from when English villages had a
    Lord of the Manor or Squire who basically owned everything in sight
    except the common ground and rented out the villagers' houses and plots
    of land. He really owned the people too - there were revolts against
    the King in which a particular Lord or Lords would order their peasants
    to fight the King's men. They were very much in a lose-lose situation.
    If they fought, they were guilty of treason: if they didn't, the Lord
    would get them anyway!
    
    Perhaps you know the phrase "Lord and Master" (often used nowadays as a
    sarcastic reference to the man of the house). I would say that this is
    a more accurate interpretation of what is meant by Lord in the Bible.

    Easy, get a greek concordance, look up Philippians 2 where it says
    Jesus is Lord, find out the translation of Lord.
    
    -Jack

re: Note 858.9 by Julie 

Hi Julie, I was thinking that the House of Commons was more like our House of 
Representatives.  Senators seem to have more weight than Representatives.
Howver, this is just me talking through my hat, I appreciate your non-USA 
viewpoint and closer familiarity to understanding the title "Lord".  Thanks.

re: Note 858.10 by Jack

Jack, Looking up the meaning of the word without the cultural context might 
not be sufficient.  Besides, I don't have a Greek Library.  If you do, please 
share it with us.  Thanks.

Peace,

Jim

    To me, Lord means "Absolute Authority," El Jeffe, the Boss; that
    when there's a clash of authority, the teachings and Spirit of
    Christ are what I've accepted as superceding all others.
    
    Shalom,
    Richard
    

    RE: .12
    
    I can accept that meaning. Makes a lot of sense.
    
    Strange about this note.....I take the lack of respond by some of the
    more "conservative" members here to imply that even asking the question
    is somehow sinful.
    
    My intent was to ask what "lord" means to you...thats all. However,
    the note must mean something else to others?
    
    Marc H.

    re:-11
    
    Well I freely admit to knowing very little about the American political
    set up - I find our own tedious enough :-) 

RE .13

Marc,

I had a quick look as to what lord means from a biblical sense as pertaining
to Jesus. 

Primarily, Jesus' disciples called him lord or sir as a sign of respect 
(Matthew  8:2, John 4:11). But they were also his pupils and as their 
teacher Jesus he became their master.

Jesus as Lord was to take on a much greater significance when he died, for
he used the value of his ransom sacrifice to purchase his followers thus
he became their owner (Compare John 15:13,14, 1 Corinthians 7:23, Jude 4 &
Revelation 5:9,10). He was also their king and bridegroom to whom they
are subject as their lord (Acts 17:7; Ephesians 5:22-27; compare John 3:28,
29; 2 Corinthians 11:2; Revelation 21:9-14.)

During his earthly ministry Jesus referred to himself as the "Lord of the
sabbath" (Matthew 12:8).

Jesus is called the "Lord over death" because he has been given the keys
of death and Hades (Romans 14:9, Acts 2:34-36 & Revelation 1:17,18). He
now has the authority to resurrect dead ones from the grave, this he
will exercise in the none too distant future (John 5:28,29).

He is called the "Lord of lords" because unlike other noblemen who are 
called lords he has immortality (1 Timothy 6:14-16, Revelation 19:16).

Its not just enough to call Jesus Lord, for he said that not every one
calling him Lord would be acceptable (Matthew 7:21). It would be those 
who recognise his position as Lord through obedience to him their master
(compare  John 14:21).

Philippians 2:9-11 RSV is worth citing "Therefore has God exalted him and
bestowed on him the name which is above every name, that at the name of
Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God
the Father."

It is important also to remember Jesus words in Matthew 7:21 NWT "No one 
can slave for two masters; for either he will hate the one and love the 
other, or he will stick to one and despise the other." Hopefully through 
not just word but also through action one recognises Jesus as Lord and 
master.

Hopefully this reply helps and is not too succint.

Phil.

BTW reference material used was the book Insight to the scriptures Vol 2,
heading Lord, subheading Jesus Christ.

	O come, let us sing unto the Lord; * let us heartily
	rejoice in the strength of our salvation.

	Let us come before his presence with thanksgiving; *
	and show ourselves glad in him with psalms.

	For the Lord is a great God; * and a great King above
	all gods.

	In his hand are all the corners of the earth; * and the
	strength of the hills is his also.

	The sea is his and he made it; * and his hands prepared
	the dry land.

	O come, let us worship and fall down, * and kneel before
	the Lord our Maker.

	For he is the Lord our God; * and we are the people of
	his pasture, and the sheep of his hand.

re .15

Oops made a slight boo boo in my last reply.

The cited scripture "No one can slave for two masters" comes from Matthew
6:24 and not 7:21.

Phil.

    Re: .16
    
    Nice, but, what does the expression mean to you? Can you reply in your
    own words?
    
    Marc H.

I think lord is roughly equivalent to master.

Does that help?

Lord is roughly equivelent to God.

LORD is roughly equivalent to Yawhew.

Collis

    Phil's reply from scripture was very comprehensive.
    
    Marc, you went on to ask, then what does this mean to us individually
    and personally.
    
    For me, it means that Jesus Christ has and forever will have all
    Authority of the Father over all creation, visible and invisible.
    
    A as creature, created by God and ransomed by Jesus on the cross from
    sin and death, "my life is no longer my own, it has been bought at
    a great price." Therefore, I am owned by God both because I was
    created by him, and also because he redeemed me when there was 
    nothing I could have possibly done to redeem myself.
    
    The thought of being owned brings all kinds of negative connotations
    to all of us, because the way mankind has owned one another has always
    been abusive, controlling, and confining. Therefore it does take faith
    and coming to know Jesus to understand that he is never abusive and
    all that he might do, including many chastenings, is all for our great
    good and done out of perfect love for us.
    
    Through a real relationship with Jesus in daily prayer, scripture,
    Mass, the sacraments of the Church, fellowship and witness with other
    Christians, I grow in realizing that he is a merciful Lord and always
    acting on my behalf and always forgiving and willing for me to return
    when I stray.
    
    After a while of this relationship, this goodness is recognized to
    be consistant and powerful. It becomes easier to love and trust God
    in return and to surrender myself more fully to his will for me in
    all circumstances. The title "Lord" then loses the human connotations
    that resulted from our sin and it takes on the attributes of love,
    peace, goodness, provision, and security, all given by the Lord 
    because He is faithful to his covenant with all of his children.
    
    Peace of Jesus,
    
    Mary 

Note 858.18
    
>    Nice, but, what does the expression mean to you? Can you reply in your
>    own words?
    
Marc H.,

	:-)  You know, reciting dogma and regurgitating Scripture doesn't
buy very much from me, either.  In the late 1600's there was an itinerant
English preacher known to wear baggy leather britches who said, "I *know*
what Jesus said.  And I *know* what Paul said.  But what canst *thou* say?"

	Your words reminded me of his.  His name was George Fox.

Shalom,
Richard

re: Note 858.19 by Collis "DCU fees?  NO!!!" 

Collis, I'm not sure if it was me you were addressing, but since I have raised 
the point, I'll answer..

>I think lord is roughly equivalent to master.
>Does that help?

Not a whole lot, as I'm not personally experienced in a master/??? 
relationship. 

>Lord is roughly equivelent to God.
>LORD is roughly equivalent to Yawhew.

Hmmm, there are so many views of God, and this seems to beg the question.
But please, do not give up, this is something I am really trying to see.
Alas, even the concept of God the Father has been sullied by some of the 
actions of my biological father.

Peace,

Jim

p.s.  I just noticed that Lord is in all caps re: Yawhew.  Are you speaking of 
the difference between a name and a title?

Note 858.22

>>LORD is roughly equivalent to Yawhew.

>p.s.  I just noticed that Lord is in all caps re: Yawhew.  Are you speaking of 
>the difference between a name and a title?

This is something of a tradition, if Collis is thinking along similar lines.

When the sacred name Yahweh was rewritten by the ancients, because it was
considered too holy to even copy, it was substituted with the Hebrew "Adonai,"
which most frequently is translated Lord.  In many of the English translations
of the Hebrew Bible (Old Testament), the tradition is to use capital L, small
capitals ORD, wherever Adonai replaces Yahweh.

I know for certain the TEV does it this way.

Peace,
Richard

>When the sacred name Yahweh was rewritten by the ancients, because it was
>considered too holy to even copy, it was substituted with the Hebrew "Adonai,"
>which most frequently is translated Lord.  In many of the English translations
>of the Hebrew Bible (Old Testament), the tradition is to use capital L, small
>capitals ORD, wherever Adonai replaces Yahweh.

Not exactly, Richard.

In Hebrew bibles the Tetragrammaton YHWH (Jodh He Waw He) was written out,
but it was considered too sacred to PRONOUNCE.  Thus it was spoken as either
Adonai (Lord) or Elohim (God) depending on context and tradition.  Later,
vowel markings were added to indicate _not_ how to pronounce YHWH, but to
indicate that Adonai or Elohim was to be spoken.

/john

Thanks for the clarification, John (.24).  But it fails to explain why
the ancients avoided using the written name of Yahweh:

    "Following an ancient tradition, begun by the first translation of
the Hebrew Scripture (the Septuagint) and followed by a vast majority
of English translations, the distinctive Hebrew name for God (usually
translated Jehovah or Yahweh), in this translation is represented by
'LORD.'  When Adonai, normally translated 'Lord,' is followed by Yahweh,
the combination is rendered by the phrase 'Sovereign LORD.'"

		       - from the preface of the Good News Bible (TEV)

[LORD in the paragraph above is rendered capital L, small capitals ORD.]

I just browsed through the New Jerusalem Bible.  It uses Yahweh God,
Yahweh and Lord Yahweh, but not LORD (capital L, small capital ORD), that
I've found.

Peace and grace,
Richard

>Thanks for the clarification, John (.24).  But it fails to explain why
>the ancients avoided using the written name of Yahweh:

In the bible, the ancients did not avoid using the written name YHWH.

It was avoided in other writings because it was considered that any
document which contained the written name needed to be treated properly,
and not handled or disposed of irreverently.

For this same reason, many people today write G-d and L-rd instead of
God and Lord.

/john

.26

Ahh, thank you, John.  May I know your resource?
    
>In the bible, the ancients did not avoid using the written name YHWH.

I take it you do not consider the Septuagint to be the Hebrew Bible
translated into Greek?

Richard

    RE: .21
    
    Yup...that's my problem. Often in my previous faith, the discussions
    seemed to be somewhat oneway. Lately, when I have to actually think for
    myself, I find that expressions and phrases are not as clear and simple
    as they seemed.
    
    Marc H.
    

    .28
    
    I serve a risen Savior
    he's in the world today
    I know that he is living
    whatever men may say
    I see his hand of mercy
    I hear his voice of cheer
    and just the time I need him
    he's always near....
    
    For some reason this song came to mind as I read your note.

    RE: .29
    Very nice!
    
    Marc H.

 Re .29




 "You ask me how I know He lives...
  He lives within my heart.."






 Jim back to read only

    .31
    
    :-) Yup!!!
    
    Somewhere someone asked about knowing the Lord's voice and
    distinguising it from all other voices....  
    
    There is a definitive difference between the voice of God through the
    Holy Spirit and voice of other spirits.
    
    But ask me to define it for you... and I can't... I  just can't... but
    when you *know* Him personally as Savior and Lord.. its distinct!
    
    

   Yes!

Note 858.32

>    There is a definitive difference between the voice of God through the
>    Holy Spirit and voice of other spirits.

I'm not sure I've heard the voice of other spirits.  I confess to having
heard the voice of my own hopes and fears, of my own needs and desires, of
my own eager imagination.

I've also heard the voice of God through the Holy Spirit.  This is the
unexpected voice.  It's a voice that doesn't haunt me, but prods me as a
shepherd would the sheep that belongs to him.  It's not always comforting.
It's sometimes very disquieting.

Peace,
Richard

    I'd agree there too Richard.  Our own self will often times lends to
    confused what is that good and perfect will of God.  But there are
    other spirits that speak.
    
    For instance there is Eckankar in which people believe that spirits who
    have passed on before guide them through their dreams.  The dream life
    becomes a place of worship, growth, experience and revealing of past
    life experience...  its a very interesting and real spiritual practice
    in our world today.
    
    The lord then becomes the main spirit guide who's voice you adhere to
    whilst dreaming.  This voice can very comforting and very real... but
    this voice is not of Christ, it is of the adversary.
    
    Christ promised us one Spirit to guide our lives, the Holy Spirit.
    
    In His Love,
    Nancy

Topic 107 in GRIM::RELIGION is "What is ECKANKAR?"

Peace,
Richard
    

Lord --  When used of God and printed in small letters with only one initial
a capital (AV), it is usually a rendering of Heb. 'adon, master (Ex. 23:17;
Ps. 114:7), much more frequently of 'adonay, literally, my master or my lord
(Ex. 4:10; Isa. 40:10), or of Gr. Kyrios, master, lord (Matt. 1:20).  When
printed in the AV, RSV, in capital letters, it represents the Hebrew YHWH,
the Tetragammaton, the most sacred and incommunicable name of God, used of
himself alone (Gen 2:4).

(I failed to write down the title of the source book)

Richard

From my own perspective Jesus does not reside in my heart but in heaven.
The voices I here are more than often selfishly motivated, like what shall 
I eat or drink. Jesus said to "Pay attention to yourselves that your hearts
never become weighed down with over-eating and heavy drinking and the 
anxieties of life." Luke 21:34 NWT. In another note I mentioned that the 
heart is the seat of motivation, it is important to safeguard it if one is 
to do God's will. For what ever we take into our hearts will be reflected 
in our desires. 

Jesus mentioned that many would call him Lord but he would reject them 
because of not doing the will of his Father (see Matthew 7:21). Hence the 
Psalmist wrote "In my heart I have treasured up your saying, in order that 
I may not sin against you." Psalm 119:11. The book of Proverbs 23:12 reads 
"Do bring your heart to discipline and your ear to the sayings of knowledge.".
2 Timothy 3:16 RSV reads "All scripture is inspired by God and profitable
for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness,
that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work." So from
a different perspective, studying and then meditating so as to take accurate
Bible knowledge into ones heart will help one to be motivated in doing God's 
will. No one in their right mind would want to be shunned by the Lord that 
they professed to subject themselves to. One needs to exhibit obedience to 
Jesus' commands as found in the Bible (for example Matthew 28:19,20 & 
John 13:34,35) for as Jesus prayed "Santify them in the truth; thy word is 
truth.". 

To Jesus, it would seem that actions speak louder than words if one is to
call him Lord.

I hope you are not offended by me sharing this different perspective.

Phil.

    .38
    
    So Phil what is God's will?

Hi Nancy,

;So Phil what is God's will?

Quite an open question, but to put it as succinct as possible it would be that
God's creation becomes what he originally intended it to be. That is a heaven 
where his creation would worship, honour and obey him (Revelation 4:11) and a 
paradise earth inhabited with righteous mankind that worship him in spirit and 
truth (Genesis 1:28, Isaiah 55:11, Matthew 6:10 & John 4:24).  One needs to
recognise how he will bring this about, that is through his Anointed One Jesus 
Christ (Psalm 2) who will be king of God's kingdom and along with Christ's 
brothers who will be corulers in the heavens over the earth (Revelation 5:9,10).

But how does one fit into God's original purpose or what is God's will for
individual persons?. This was partly answered by Jim Henderson in note 837.48,
God wants all to reach repentenance that is turn around from the course this
world is heading which is destruction and turn to the Father, as 1 John 2:17
RSV reads "And the world passes away, and the lust of it, but he that does
the will of God abides for ever.". This Scripture highlights the need for safe
guarding ones figurative heart, for one would not want to have the desires
of the world or "the lust of it" but to have the desire to do God's will.

John 6:40 RSV reads "For this is the will of my father, that every one who
sees the Son and believes in him should have eternal life; and I will
raise him up at the last day." but more than belief is needed for the
demons believe and shudder. We can learn more from what is God's will by looking 
to Jesus' example as found in the Bible for he came to do God's will (compare 
Hebrews 10:9). Anointed Christians to have been called to do God's will and 
1 Peter 2:21 RSV reads "For to this you have been called, because Christ also 
suffered for you, leaving you an example, that you might follow in his steps." 
One needs to imitate Jesus which means getting to know him through Bible study 
and then making application in ones life.

I have already mentioned obedience to Jesus' commands for God has put him head
of the Christian congregation (1 Corinthians 11:3).

There is more to God's will as found in the pages of the Bible. I hope what I 
have written goes someway into answering your question. Please feel free to 
ask if you would like me to expand on any of the above.

Phil.

    .40
    
    Thanks for the answer, have extracted your note to read more eptly
    [wd?], however on the skim, you have just helped me understand the root
    of the JWism.. :-)