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Conference lgp30::christian-perspective

Title:Discussions from a Christian Perspective
Notice:Prostitutes and tax collectors welcome!
Moderator:CSC32::J_CHRISTIE
Created:Mon Sep 17 1990
Last Modified:Fri Jun 06 1997
Last Successful Update:Fri Jun 06 1997
Number of topics:1362
Total number of notes:61362

751.0. "Christianity and Music" by TFH::KIRK (a simple song) Thu Oct 28 1993 14:37

I was reading a note in another conference about a church organ under 
construction (hi, /john).  Also, our church (Episcopal) recently received an
advanced copy of a new hymnal suppliment comprised mostly of "old chestnuts"
like _The Old Rugged Cross_ & _How Great Thou Art_ and African sacred music.
So I decided to start this note. 

Christianity (and I suppose many other faiths, but this IS the Christian 
Perspective notesfile) and modern music have had intertwined roots for over a
millenium.  I'd like to explore some of that history in this note. 

A few tidbits and queries off the top of my head to spark some thought...

There are many references to musical instruments and singing in the Bible.

Pope Gregory and Gregorian chant in the 900's I think was the beginning of 
the western musical tradition.

Instruments similar to the modern trombone were the earliest instruments used 
in churchs because they are chromatic instruments, able to play in any key.
The French horn was the first valved instrument to achieve this ability (via 
detuning the instrument with one's hand thrust up the bell).  It quickly 
supplanted the trombone since keyed instruments are easier and faster to play.
(I'm a trombone player so I'm biased.  .-)

The development of the organ, which today seems to be the primary instrument 
used for liturgical music.  What part did the Church have in the development 
of these instruments?  Some denomination seem to prefer different keyboard 
sounds.  Anglican's seem to prefer pipe organs, others prefer the vibrate of 
Hammond organs, while others prefer the piano.  Why these differences?

A great deal of music has been commisioned by or written for the Church.  How 
has this affected modern music?  

Folk music, spirituals, western and non-western; all sorts of music has been
sung in praise to God. There's another note in this conference for talking
about one's favorite hymn, but here, who can share some stories and histories
of when Faith and religion meet Music?  (And please, let's not make this a
"hot" topic, thanks.)

Peace,

Jim
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751.1CSC32::J_CHRISTIEPacifist HellcatThu Oct 28 1993 21:407
    Modern digital technology has given tremendous new abilities to
    the keyboard.  I've heard the sound of human voices replicated
    so perfectly from a programmed keyboard that I started looking for
    the choir.  To tell you the truth, it was a little eerie.
    
    A grace note be with you,
    Richard
751.2Mass in F Minor - The Electric PrunesCSC32::J_CHRISTIEPacifist HellcatFri Oct 29 1993 17:3315
I recall listening to a record album (That's what they had before CD's,
for all you youngsters) over and over in the late '60's called "The
Mass in F Minor," by the Electric Prunes.

The words sung were in Latin by male voices and had a Gregorian chant-like
quality to them.  The sound of the instruments was what might be described
as "pre-Heavy Metal."  Some, I believe, called it "Acid Rock":  Searing
electric guitars, throbbing drumbeats, all fighting for attention.

In fact, one of the cuts from the album was used in the movie, "Easy Rider,"
as the protagonists, Peter Fonda and Dennis Hopper, were experiencing an
LSD trip.

Peace,
Richard
751.3CSLALL::HENDERSONFriend will you be ready?Fri Oct 29 1993 17:4313


 Ah....the Electric Prunes.  One big hit as I recall.








Jim
751.4CSC32::J_CHRISTIEPacifist HellcatFri Oct 29 1993 18:467
    .3  The "Mass in F Minor" wasn't a big hit.  The Electric Prunes
    was one of those studio contrived groups that changed members
    like underwear.  The record company owned the name.
    
    Peace,
    Richard
    
751.5CSLALL::HENDERSONFriend will you be ready?Fri Oct 29 1993 18:5813

 Right...their big hit was "Too much to Dream".



 Rather than start a discussion on a definition of hit, I'll say it
got a lot of airplay.




Jim
751.6THOLIN::TBAKERDOS with Honor!Fri Oct 29 1993 18:5913
    The one hit was "(I Had) Too Much to Dream (Last Night)"
    or something like that.  I think it was in early 1967.
    One of my all time favorite songs.

    I had an experience with music that was quite profound.
    While listening to Ode to Joy I read the translation.  That
    was intense by itself.  But then I realized that Beethovan
    wrote every single note of that symphony as a devotion to
    God...  The love felt/experienced must have been overpowering.

    What could be nicer?

    Tom
751.7CSLALL::HENDERSONFriend will you be ready?Fri Oct 29 1993 19:2016



 Hmmm...I thought it was later than 67 cuz I seem to recall the song
 reminding me of a girlfriend withwhom I broke up in 1968..YIKES!! 25
 years ago Monday.



Jim who apologizes for ratholing the topic :-)





751.8"Golden Oldies"CSC32::J_CHRISTIEPacifist HellcatSat Oct 30 1993 17:0721
    I recall a handful of recordings with a religious message that made
    it fairly big on the pop charts a number of years back.  Since there
    seems to be a number of C-P noters who are close to my age, this may
    be like a waltz down Memory Lane:
    
    "(Put Your) Hand in the Hand (of the Man Who Stilled the Waters)"
    
    "Day by Day"
    
    "Suzanne" [written by Leonard Cohen, the second verse]
    
    "Why Me, Lord?" [by Kris Kristofferson]
    
    "Amazing Grace" [by Judy Collins]
    
    "My Sweet Lord" [by George Harrison]
    
    Feel free to add to these.
    
    Peace,
    Richard
751.9GRIM::MESSENGERBob MessengerSat Oct 30 1993 21:5221
Re: .8 Richard

>    "(Put Your) Hand in the Hand (of the Man Who Stilled the Waters)"
>    
>    "Day by Day"
    
I loved those songs!  (Still do, even as a non-Christian now.)  Was "Day
by Day" from "Godspell"?

>    "My Sweet Lord" [by George Harrison]
    
"Hari Krishna, Hari Rama".  Yep, that's a good example of Christian music
all right. :-)

I was going to mention some songs that I like that have religious themes,
but then I realized that they mostly have anti-religous them, or at least
anti-Christian themes.  One song which I'm not sure is on the level or not:

"Jesus Is Just Alright With Me" by the Doobie Brothers

				-- Bob
751.10CSLALL::HENDERSONFriend will you be ready?Sat Oct 30 1993 21:567

  Day by Day was from Godspell



 Jim
751.11CSLALL::HENDERSONFriend will you be ready?Sat Oct 30 1993 21:5710

 Oh Happy Day






 Jim
751.12COVERT::COVERTJohn R. CovertSun Oct 31 1993 04:5014
>  Day by Day was from Godspell

Thought we went through this just a little while ago, right here in
this very conference.

Day by Day was written by Bishop Richard of Chichester, who lived
from 1197-1253.

It was set to the tune Sumner by Arthur Henry Biggs specifically for
the Episcopal Hymnal 1940.

Is there _any_ original music in Godspell?

/john
751.13GRIM::MESSENGERBob MessengerSun Oct 31 1993 05:279
Re: .12 John

>Thought we went through this just a little while ago, right here in
>this very conference.

I must have missed reading that note - maybe I was a little too heavy on
the "next unseen" key that day.

				-- Bob
751.14CSLALL::HENDERSONFriend will you be ready?Sun Oct 31 1993 11:443

 Guess I wasn't in the conference then
751.15COVERT::COVERTJohn R. CovertSun Oct 31 1993 12:383
Sorry, it was somewhere else.  But only about two or three weeks ago.

/john
751.16CSC32::J_CHRISTIEPacifist HellcatSun Oct 31 1993 19:1418
There are a number of songs I've heard used during worship that might be
considered secular, but might have some significance to the worshiping
community.  Among them:

"One Tin Soldier" (or the theme from "Billy Jack")

	Go ahead and hate your neighbor,
	  Go ahead and cheat a friend;
	Do it in the name of freedom,
	   You can justify it in the end.

"Morning Has Broken" (Recorded by Cat Stevens who later became a Moslem.
		      I liked Stevens' "Peace Train," but it's too difficult
		      to sing in a group.)

Peace,
Richard

751.17COVERT::COVERTJohn R. CovertSun Oct 31 1993 20:1216
Cat Stevens recorded "Morning has broken", but he didn't write it:

Morning has broken like the first morning,
Blackbird has spoken like the first bird.
Praise for the singing!  Praise for the morning!
Praise for them, springing fresh from the Word!		<--- !! major Christian
								reference.
Sweet the rain's new fall sunlit from heaven,
Like the first dew fall on the first grass.
Praise for the sweetness of the wet garden,
Sprung in completeness where His feet pass.

Mine is the sunlight!  Mine is the morning
Born of the one light Eden saw play!                    Words: Eleanor Farjeon
Praise with elation, praise every morning,		Tune: Bunessan,
God's re-creation of the new day!			   (Traditional Gaelic)
751.18JUPITR::HILDEBRANTI'm the NRAMon Nov 01 1993 11:236
    I really like:
    "Traveling Shoes" by Maria Muldar and "Your Gonna Need Somebody on your
    Bond"...written by Buffy St. Marie and Sung by Taj Mahal( both UMass
    graduates...along with myself).
    
    Marc H.
751.19a little more of the story...TFH::KIRKa simple songMon Nov 01 1993 12:4316
re: Note 751.17 by /john

> Cat Stevens recorded "Morning has broken", but he didn't write it:

>	Words: Eleanor Farjeon
>	Tune: Bunessan,
>	(Traditional Gaelic)

As I recall from my choir director, Eleanor had writted the poem, and one day 
heard an Irish laborer whistling the tune as he was going down the street.
She realized her poem fit the music, invited him into her home, and
transcribed the melody. 

Peace,

Jim
751.20TWO MORE CLASSIC RELIGIOUS SONGSSALEM::PORTERMike Porter, 285-2125, NIO/A19Fri Nov 19 1993 01:4210
        1).  The classic country and western hit: "Drop Kick Me Jesus Through
    the Goalposts of Life!"  
    
        2). The hit by the Birds, I think the title of which was "Turn, Turn,
    Turn."  At the White House signing of the Israel-PLO pease accords,
    Israeli Prime Minister Rabin quoted from the Bible verse that the Birds
    used for their song. A very touching and moving reference.
    
         Mike
    
751.21CSC32::J_CHRISTIEPacifist HellcatFri Nov 19 1993 01:519
    .20 That second hit you mentioned was composed by Pete Seeger (with
    a little help from God).  Most of the words came from the book of
    Ecclesiates.
    
    Your nodename is of particular interest to me (SALEM::).  It means
    "peace."
    
    Shalom,
    Richard
751.22COMET::HAYESJDuck and cover!Sun Nov 21 1993 05:466
    The Byrds -- a rock band of the mid to late 60s.
    The Birds -- a suspense/horror movie of the same period of time.
    
    :-)
    
    Steve
751.23Prayer Music No. 1, "Dirge"CSC32::J_CHRISTIEUnquenchable fireFri Apr 28 1995 00:5119
Prayer Music No. 1, "Dirge" composed by Masaru Kawasaki (b. 1924) is
performed every year on August 6th at the Hiroshima Peace Ceremony.
It was performed for the first time ever in the United States on
April 24th in Colorado Springs, Colorado.

The composer writes:

	"I had rejected for a long time the musical expression of my
tragic experience with the A-bomb.  Thirty years after Hiroshima, I
was finally able to confront my profound pain and express musically
my dark memories of August 6, 1945....

	"No matter how much many years pass, my horrible experiences
remain vivid."

	How many innocent children died in that horrific explosion!

Richard