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Conference lgp30::christian-perspective

Title:Discussions from a Christian Perspective
Notice:Prostitutes and tax collectors welcome!
Moderator:CSC32::J_CHRISTIE
Created:Mon Sep 17 1990
Last Modified:Fri Jun 06 1997
Last Successful Update:Fri Jun 06 1997
Number of topics:1362
Total number of notes:61362

711.0. "Work" by CSC32::J_CHRISTIE (Pacifist Hellcat) Wed Jun 23 1993 17:23

	Work.  Employment.  A job.

	In western culture, such is often a measure of one's worth.  If one
is unemployed, one's value by cultural standards is diminished.  And
accordingly, one's sense of self-worth typically ebbs.

	Of course, this is nonsense.  We are human beings, not human doings.
But so often, our very identity is centered around what we do.  It's often
among the first questions asked in getting acquainted: "What do you do?"

	I am often asked if my spouse works.  My response is usually, "Yes.
However, she is not gainfully employed."

	The so-called Protestant Work Ethic has had a powerful influence in
creating our current mindset towards productivity and labor.

	What are your observations along these lines?

Richard

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711.1JUPITR::HILDEBRANTI'm the NRAWed Jun 23 1993 17:3914
    I have had some type of a job since I was 12. At the age of 15, I
    worked as an electrical technican and a gardener at a library. I have
    always worked......
    
    I feel a low self-worth with the current jobs I have had. I'm
    underemployed by quite a bit.
    
    I don't know why its so, but I *need* to feel that I do something every
    day....after "work" here at DEC, I usually go home and work on my
    house, hobbies, read, just have to do something all the time.
    
    Good note......raises some very interesting questions.....
    
    Marc H.
711.2To dream the impossible dream...CSC32::KINSELLABoycott Hell!!!!!!Wed Jun 23 1993 19:0424
    
    Ah work...the subject everyone loves to complain about.  I think it's
    highly over-rated the way it's done in our society.  I feel constantly
    drained, like I never quite get rested.  I was driving down Union Blvd.
    a week ago and I noticed my speed (which was 50 in a 40).  Now, I don't
    usually speed but I got caught up with everyone else.  When I realized
    it, I slowed down and started to wonder "Where are they all going to?
    What are they rushing for?"  I did this same thing in my job years
    ago.  I was caught up with everyone scrambling for a better position,
    then I finally stopped and reassessed "Why am I doing this?"  It
    certainly wasn't because I liked the work.  I've often felt I'm in
    the wrong career, but it's so hard to change with all the benefits
    being tied to where you work.  As a single person it's hard for me
    to just quit especially since I need health benefits because I'm an
    asthmatic.
    
    I believe that we should back off on the number of hours we work.
    Shorter work weeks, more vacations.  We're all going at breakneck
    speed not thinking of the consequences most times.  We need more
    time for long walks, playing with family and friends, travelling,
    and going to school (of course the school's would need to be
    changed to provide low cost classes).  ;^)
    
    Jill
711.3CRONIC::SCHULERGreg - Hudson, MAWed Jun 23 1993 19:1313
   >I believe that we should back off on the number of hours we work.
   >Shorter work weeks, more vacations.  We're all going at breakneck
   >speed not thinking of the consequences most times.  We need more
   >time for long walks, playing with family and friends, travelling,
   >and going to school (of course the school's would need to be
   >changed to provide low cost classes).  ;^)
    
    Amen to that!
    
    :-)
    
    /Greg
    
711.4More Work!!!WELLER::FANNINWed Jun 23 1993 23:584
    No way!  We're all much too lazy!!! Work! Work! Work! Bigger houses,
    better cars, perfect lawns, clothing to die for...
    
    {she exits stage left, chased by a bear}
711.5CSC32::J_CHRISTIEPacifist HellcatThu Jun 24 1993 22:536
711.6Work.. It can be enjoyableSALEM::RUSSOFri Jun 25 1993 16:0923
 RE: .0

  Richard,

 You mention work, or lack of it, and it's affect on people. It certainly 
does affect people, not only those in Western cultures but earth wide.
 For those interested; the June 22, 1993 (timely isn't it) issue of the AWAKE
magazine has a few articles dealing with work; "Working Hard - What are the
Consequences?", Working Hard - Hazardous to your Health?" "Working Hard - When
it is a Virtue". It made many fine points and brought out some statistics I
found interesting. I'll share a one that surpirsed me; "nearly one American in 
eight reported working 60 hours or more a week" according to the US Bureau of 
Labor Statistics. Japanese office workers are discussed as regards their fears 
from overwork. Burnout, depression and family life impacts are discussed amoung 
other things. Naturally, practicle council from God's Word is given to help 
reason on God's view of work and how we can apply ourselves to his wishes. 
i.e. Ecc 3:13, Prov.12:24 and others.
 The Awake is published in 67 languages with an average printing of 13,240,000
so it's available to all. If you would like a copy contact you local Kingdom 
Hall of Jehovah's Witnesses or.. ask for one next time you get that knock on
you door 8-)
               regards,  robin
711.7Go to work, Adam!!CSC32::J_CHRISTIEPacifist HellcatFri Jun 25 1993 22:1221
711.8Let's get back on track...CFSCTC::HUSTONSteve HustonMon Jun 28 1993 14:2749
>Lemme see.  Looks like God's punishment here for the woman is to bear
>children and to put up with the tyranny of the man, and for the man, to do
>tedious, often unrewarding labor.

Since I saw no smiley face on this, I'll take it at face value and respond, since
it's a big twist on the meaning of this part of scripture.

(If I had a nickle for every time I saw a twist on this... ;-)

First, God's main punishment in all this was death to Adam and Eve, and to all humans
after them, except those who accept Christ's payment of the penalty for them.

God's punishment here is not for the woman to bear children, or to put up with the
tyranny of man (directly...).

Her punishment is (let me re-quote from NIV...)

   "I will greatly increase your pains in childbearing; with pain you will give
   birth to children."  Gen 3:16a

The punishment is increased pain... bearing children is a normal part of the woman's
design from the beginning.  The pain is definitely physical (well, from what I've
heard anyway...).  Also, a pastor I had suggested that the pain is also emotional,
having to see that she has brought forth a child that continues in the sin nature
that she and Adam started.

   "Your desire will be for your husband, and he will rule over you."  Gen 3:16b

The original words for 'desire' imply that she will want to dominate the man, as
well as the usual sexual desire.  Her desire to dominate will conflict with the
man's role now of ruling over her.  The "tyranny of the man" is more of his abusing
his role as leader.  Tyranny is a result of the man's sin nature, not a direct
punishment to the woman.

----------------

Now, back to the 'work' thread...

As for the man, he was punished with having to work hard for food.  He had everything
from God previously, now after the fall, he's given that up and has to work hard.

The ground is cursed.  Not the work.  Work is still fulfilling.  It can get tedious,
especially when affected by deranged priorities.  But God gives each person skills
and opportunities to exercise them.  When kept in line with what he intended, work
is very fulfilling.  It's exciting to see what skills God has given, and what can be
done with them.


-Steve
711.9CSC32::J_CHRISTIEPacifist HellcatMon Jun 28 1993 15:175
    I don't always use smiley faces.  I like to give readers room for
    independant thinking.  Thanks for your interpretion of the punishments.
    
    Richard
    
711.10JUPITR::HILDEBRANTI'm the NRAMon Jun 28 1993 15:435
    RE: .8
    
    My vt420 chops up your note....check the length of the lines.
    
    Marc H.
711.11From a bookmark distributed by De Anza CollegeCSC32::J_CHRISTIEPacifist HellcatTue Jul 27 1993 19:09120
 
                       How To Stay Stressed
 
                         ---------------
 
Although the De Anza Health Office long been an advocate of stress
management, stress, tension, and burnout are still common complaints of
students, faculty, and staff alike.  On account of this, we have come to
the following conclusion: YOU ALL WANT TO STAY STRESSED!  The following
provides you with a few reasons why.
 
STRESS HELPS YOU SEEM IMPORTANT.     Anyone as stressed as you must be
                                     working very hard and, therefore,
                                     is  probably doing something very
                                     crucial.
 
IT HELPS YOU TO MAINTAIN PERSONAL    Anyone as busy as you are certainly
DISTANCE AND AVOID INTIMACY.         can't be expected to form emotional
                                     attachments to anyone.  And let's
                                     face it, you're not much fun to be
                                     around anyway.
 
IT HELPS YOU AVOID RESPONSIBILITIES. Obviously you're too stressed to be
                                     given any more work.  This gets you
                                     off the hook for all the mundane
                                     chores; let someone else take care
                                     of them.
 
IT GIVES YOU A CHEMICAL RUSH.        Stress might be considered a cheap
                                     thrill, and you can give yourself a
                                     "hit" anytime you choose.  But be
                                     careful, you might get addicted to
                                     your own adrenaline.
 
IT HELPS YOU AVOID SUCCESS.          Why risk being "successful" when by
                                     simply staying stressed you can
                                     avoid all of that?  Stress can keep
                                     your performance level low enough
                                     that success won't ever be a threat.
 
STRESS ALSO LETS YOU KEEP YOUR       The authoritarian style of "Just do
AUTHORITARIAN MANAGEMENT STYLE.      what I say!" is generally permissi-
                                     ble under crisis conditions.  If
                                     you maintain a permanently stressed
                                     crisis atmosphere, you can justify
                                     an authoritarian style all the time.
 
 
Are you worried now about how to stay stressed?  You'll have no trouble
if you practice the following clinically proven methods:
 
NEVER EXERCISE.                      Exercise wastes a lot of time that
                                     could be spent worrying.
 
EAT ANYTHING YOU WANT.               Hey, if cigarette smoke can't
                                     cleanse your system, a balanced
                                     diet isn't likely to.
 
GAIN WEIGHT.                         Work hard at staying at least 25
                                     pounds over your recommended
                                     weight.
 
TAKE PLENTY OF STIMULANTS.           The old standards of caffeine,
                                     nicotine, sugar, and cola will
                                     continue to do the job just fine.
 
AVOID "WOO-WOO" PRACTICES.           Ignore the evidence suggesting
                                     that meditation, yoga, deep
                                     breathing, and/or mental imaging
                                     help to reduce stress.  The
                                     Protestant work ethic is good for
                                     everyone, Protestant or not.
 
GET RID OF YOUR SOCIAL               Let the few friends who are
SUPPORT SYSTEM.                      willing to tolerate you know that
                                     concern yourself with friendships
                                     only if you have time, and you
                                     never have time.  If a few people
                                     persist in trying to be your
                                     friend, avoid them.
 
PERSONALIZE ALL CRITICISM.           Anyone who criticizes any aspect
                                     of your work, family, dog, house,
                                     or car is mounting a personal
                                     attack.  Don't take time to
                                     listen, be offended, then return
                                     the attack!
 
THROW OUT YOUR SENSE OF HUMOR.       Staying stressed is no laughing
                                     matter, and it shouldn't be
                                     treated as one.
 
MALES AND FEMALES ALIKE - BE MACHO.  Never ever ask for help, and if
                                     you want it done right, do it
                                     yourself!
 
BECOME A WORKAHOLIC.                 Put work before everything else,
                                     and be sure to take work home
                                     evenings and weekends.  Keep
                                     reminding yourself that vacations
                                     are for sissies.
 
DISCARD GOOD TIME MANAGEMENT SKILLS. Schedule in more activities every
                                     day than you can possibly get done
                                     and then worry about it all
                                     whenever you get a chance.
 
PROCRASTINATE.                       Putting things off to the last
                                     second always produces a marvelous
                                     amount of stress.
 
WORRY ABOUT THINGS YOU CAN'T         Worry about the stock market,
CONTROL.                             earthquakes, the approching Ice
                                     Age, you know, all the big issues.
 
BECOME NOT ONLY A PERFECTIONIST BUT  ...and either beat yourself up, or
SET IMPOSSIBLY HIGH STANDARDS...     feel guilty, depressed, discour-
                                     aged, and/or inadequate when you
                                     don't meet them."

711.12oh yeahTNPUBS::STEINHARTBack in the high life againWed Jul 28 1993 14:259
    RE:  .11
    
    Very funny.  But how did they get that whole thing on a bookmark?  They
    must have printed it in very small type.  That's good.  Straining to
    read small type contributes to stress.
    
    Laura
    
    ;-) in case that wasn't obvious
711.13CSC32::J_CHRISTIEPacifist HellcatWed Jul 28 1993 15:177
    I didn't see the original.  I did wonder the same thing, though!
    
    I was wondering if anybody would have any comment on the Protestant
    work ethic.
    
    Richard