Conference lgp30::christian-perspective

    Re: .0
    
    To thine own self be true. Say what you think. Those that get offended
    have a problem...not you.
    
    Simple...
    
    Marc H.

    
    	Words, of themselves, have no power, they are just words, the power 
    	to hurt comes from the individual who reads them, interprets them 
    	and assumes an intended meaning.
    
    	If I say to you "muma jemo comono", you have no idea what their
    	meaning is so you don't react, but if I told you that those words
    	are an insult to you, you would immediately react to them.  I made
    	up those words, they don't belong to any known language that I'm
    	aware of.
    
    	Where did the power to hurt you come from ?.  Think about that.
    
    	I don't need anyone to tell me that we should follow a certain
    	polite etiquete and be nice to each other, and you all know that
    	I do try to follow that rule.
    
        My philosophy is: Sticks and stones will hurt my bones but words
    	will never hurt me because I refuse to give them the power to hurt
    	me. 
    	
                 	Juan
                                                                       

    RE: .0 Ruth,
    
    			Without hearing the voice inflections of the
    author, this issue can never be solved through only the written word. 
    I sometimes think that the readers taking offense are reading the note
    with there own personality.  If the reader is angry the he/she reads it
    like it was an angry note.  Its very common with humans.  I really wish
    that we could get past this issue and respond as if it were a question
    sincerely put.  Some are better at this than others.  
    
    Dave

    
    		I also believe that we get too "caught" up in the validity
    of a question rather than addressing the point or question.  Heat 
    cannot be avoided with strong divergent beliefs.  We can, however, take
    a more mature attitude and relate beliefs honestly and sincerely
    without the apparent need to "score points".  This isn't a game but a
    subject of very serious importance.  
    
    
    Dave

    Ruth .0,
    
    	Good question.  Glad you're here.
    
    	I've come to believe that life is not a Care Bear movie.  It's
    very difficult to find any topic that's risk-free of offending
    absolutely everyone.
    
    	I *try* to be sensitive to what might be offensive.  I avoid
    crude language and superlatives.  Sometimes I try to lighten things
    up with a little humor.
    
    	The whole area of faith is volatile and fraught with potential
    disturbances.  Why?  It has to do with the very underpinnings of our
    lives.  It is the guide by which we all find meaning and direction.
    To call these things into question can have devastating results
    emotionally and psychologically; manifesting itself in a multitude
    of ways.
    
    Richard

    Hi Ruth,
    
    I understand exactly where your coming from.  This conference says "go
    ahead and state your belief" and you do and then you're jumped for it. 
    I think there are a whole bunch of reasons for that.
    
    First, I agree with Richard that it's the underpinnings of our lives. 
    So some things rock us to our core.
    
    Second, I think it's man's (that's generic for mankind) nature to want
    to be right or at least have our view validated (feeling like you're
    not alone - that someone else holds or values your view).
    
    Third and certainly one that flairs up alot in here is personality
    conflicts.  It's the readers choice whether or not to filter these
    personalities.  Some let them hit them broadside.  For instance,
    Patrick (sorry Patrick) tends to irritate alot of readers here because
    he's a very blunt writer.  However, that can come across as hostile. 
    An "in person" example would be we have a manager here who is Jewish (I
    believe he's either from Israel or Europe) and while he speaks English,
    he doesn't flower up his speech with a lot of words - I always thought
    that he was angry - he wasn't, it was just his way.   I'll admit a few
    times I've thought Patrick has come across strongly, then I step back
    and say okay remember Patrick's style and read it again.  It makes a
    huge difference. Now that's easy to do with someone you agree with most
    of the time.  To use another example Richard (sorry Richard) tends to
    use jokes or even sarcasm to lighten things up.  That's often lost on
    me.  Again, I have to step back and take in Richard's style or I'd be
    jumping down his throat non-stop.  A trap I've fell into more than I'd
    care to admit.  (sorry again Richard)   Last are those people who just
    irritate you so much you can't even stand to read their notes...so if
    your wise and don't want the aggravation...you don't.  I'm sure there
    are a couple of people who don't read mine.  That's okay.
    
    Fourth, some of us still believe this is a once and for always
    proposition and we get upset with the lies Satan uses to keep people
    from the truth. So we can tend to take this stuff pretty seriously. 
    And since this statement probably upset a few people, I stop....for
    now.  ;^)
    
    I'm sure there are many more reasons...but that's my first take on it.
    
    Jill
    
    

    Good points, Jill -- those are probably excellent things to keep in
    mind in this conference...
    
    One thing I have noted is that reactions are often *very* different
    depending upon *how* we state disagreement.  There is, in my view, an
    enormous difference between flatly stating "You're wrong," or even
    "That's not Christian" and saying "I disagree and here's why."  The
    first approach often leads to people quickly taking sides against each
    other and very rapidly devolves into semantic quibbling.  The second
    often leads to some of the most stimulating and interesting discussions
    I see around the notesfiles.  People may disagree but they also
    *discuss*
    
    I've watched and read and participated in both kinds of communications,
    and I think number two is really the best way for people to avoid
    offense...honestly seeking insight, information and a peek into someone
    else's perrspective goes far.
    
    regards,
    
    Daniel

I have to confess that some of my humor is barbed, and I know it is.

I do *try* to avoid the obvious.  And I try to avoid "Hee Haw" humor.

Peace,
Richard

Ruth,

I do try to be careful in my phrasing in order not to give the wrong impression.
Although my views are quite divergent from the mainstream views (a very wide
mainstream, in this conference), I attempt to discuss the views, without 
implying that anyone holding views that don't agree with mine are wrong.

Although I don't intentionally try to upset people, but I realize that my views
are going to upset some folks here simply because, and I try to be sensitive
to that.

I'm fairly thick skinned, so I don't get angry over anything written to, or at
me.

In short, I may disagree with your ideas or your logic, I will (hopefully) not 
attack you as a person, and you may do anything (through these notes) you wish
to me. If I upset anyone with anything other than a logical debate, let me know
and I will stop.

Oh yeah, I also use humor from time to time, and it may contain a barb or two.

Bottom line, I have gotten the impression that most of the people in this 
conference are not easily annoyed, and that they are courteous. As long as we
keep the conversation at a reasonably 'adult' level I don't see any problems.

Steve

Something that I think helps *a little*:

	Getting to know the person writing.
	^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
	Ro and I go back several years.  I'm fairly confident when I challenge
something she believes that she realizes I mean no offense.

	Same with Carole Fretts.

	I've met Mike Valenza, Ruth Fannin, Nanci Van Fleet, Jill Kinsella,
Carole Fretts and Bubba Beeler in person (and members emeritus: Karen Berggren
and Cal Hoe).  I don't see her very often here, but Cindy Painter and I have
met, also.

	I've spoken briefly on the phone with Alfred Thompson and Dave
Dawson.

	I know someone who has had dinner with Patrick Sweeney.  I understand
Patrick is actually a very pleasant individual in person.

Shalom,
Richard

<<Something that I think helps *a little*:

<<	Getting to know the person writing.
	^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I agree Richard and have been thinking for awhile that it is time for another 
C-P dinner, but I just haven't had the time to organize one.  


<<	Ro and I go back several years.  I'm fairly confident when I challenge
<<something she believes that she realizes I mean no offense.

Yup, but I still hope to meet you in person!!  One of these days Don 
and I will make it out there and we can have a Coloradian-stype C-P 
dinner with you, Ruth, Nanci, and Jill.

Ro

.11

> One of these days Don 
> and I will make it out there and we can have a Coloradian-stype C-P 
> dinner with you, Ruth, Nanci, and Jill.

I'd like that, Ro!

Richard

    Hi, I am a "reader" only to this conference, but I had to comment
    on this one.  This conference is one of the most "lively" conferences
    around.  The subjects are always interesting..and I really enjoy
    reading them.  Everyone in this conference states their own opinions
    and is not afraid of feedback...I think this is great!
    
    I am a Christian and just wanted to tell everyone that you all form
    a good "team" of opinions....
    
    Terri

    
    We could do Chinese food like you did at the CP dinner I saw in the
    pictures Richard showed me.  Although, Chinese food is different 
    than the East Coast.  
    
    Jill

    Speaking of being offended, I am offended that I have never seen these
    pictures that everyone keeps talking about, especially since I was in
    some of them!  :-)
    
    -- Mike

    
    Yeah Mike...and I've been meaning to talk to you about the hula skirt 
    you wore and dancing on the table...I suppose your going to say that
    the spirit lead you...
    
    Jill

    
    Mike, I'm in the middle of packing up our house (we're moving in a
    couple of weeks!), so I'm not sure that I could find the photos
    easily...but for you I'll give it a shot and let you know.  If I
    find them, we can make arrangements for you to have a look.  :^)
    
    Carole