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Conference lgp30::christian-perspective

Title:Discussions from a Christian Perspective
Notice:Prostitutes and tax collectors welcome!
Moderator:CSC32::J_CHRISTIE
Created:Mon Sep 17 1990
Last Modified:Fri Jun 06 1997
Last Successful Update:Fri Jun 06 1997
Number of topics:1362
Total number of notes:61362

574.0. "The Truth of Scripture (SRO), discussion in 575" by --UnknownUser-- () Thu Dec 31 1992 12:32

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574.1Genesis 1:3CLT::COLLIS::JACKSONJesus is the reason for the seasonThu Dec 31 1992 19:0423
Starting at the beginning :-)

Genesis 1:3 says

  "And God said, 'Let there be light'..."

This construct is usual in the Old Testament and the first
example of it is in the third verse of the first book.
The first verse assumes the existence of God, the third
verse assumes knowledge of what God said before any human
was around to hear or understand God.

How could this be?  Possible answers are that God wrote
the Scripture Himself (supported throughout Scripture as
this note will attest to), that God revealed this bit of
truth to the author of Genesis (which Scripture indicates
is Moses) or that the author took a stab (in the dark?)
about what happened.  (It appears that no one else was around
when this happened assuming that it indeed happened so
if God didn't reveal it to the author, then it couldn't be
much more than a stab in the dark as I figure.)

Collis
574.2Psalm 19CLT::COLLIS::JACKSONJesus is the reason for the seasonThu Jan 07 1993 17:5522

 7 The law of the LORD is perfect,
     reviving the soul.
   The statutes of the LORD are trustworthy,
     making wise the simple.
 8 The precepts of the LORD are right,
     giving joy to the heart.
   The commands of the LORD are radiant,
     giving light to the eyes.
 9 The fear of the LORD is pure,
     enduring forever.
   The ordinances of the LORD are sure
     and altogether righteous.
10 They are more precious then gold,
     than much pure gold;
   they are sweeter than honey,
     than honey from the comb.

Indeed, the law of the LORD is perfect.

Collis
574.3Matthew 5CLT::COLLIS::JACKSONJesus is the reason for the seasonFri Jan 08 1993 17:4116
  17  "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets;
      I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.
  18  I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the
      smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will be any means
      disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.
  19  Anyone who breaks one of the least of these commandments and
      teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom
      of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will
      be called great in the kingdom of heaven."

					Jesus the Christ

Note:  "Law or the Prophets" technically referred to a number of books in the
       Bible that are part of the Old Testament.

Collis
574.4Matthew 4:1-11; the temptation of JesusTLE::COLLIS::JACKSONFerris wheelMon Mar 08 1993 11:4636
Matthew 4:1-11

  Then Jesus was led by the Spirit into the desert to be tempted by the
  devil.  After fasting forty days and forty nights, he was hungry.  The
  tempter came to him and said, "If you are the Son of God, tell these stones
  to become bread." 

  Jesus answered, "It is written: 'Man does not live on bread alone, but on
  every word that comes from the mouth of God.'" 

  Then the devil took him to the holy city and had him stand on the highest
  point of the temple.  "If you are the Son of God," he said, "throw yourself
  down.  For it is written: 

    "'He will command his angels concerning you,
      and they will lift you up in their hands,
      so that you will not strike your foot against a stone.'"

  Jesus answered him, "It is also written: 'Do not put the Lord your God to
  the test.'" 

  Again, the devil took him to a very high mountain and showed him all the
  kingdoms the world and their splendor.  "All this I will give you," he
  said, "if you will bow down and worship me." 

  Jesus said to him, "Away from me, Satan!  For it is written: 'Worship the
  Lord your God and serve him only.'" 

  Then the devil left him, and angels came and attended him. 

How does Jesus respond to temptation?  Three times the devil tempted Him in
this narrative.  Three times Jesus quotes Scripture.  Is Scripture true?
Is it reliable?  Can we really believe that God wrote it?  Jesus' response
to His temptation gives us some help in answering these questions.

Collis
574.5use of the Old Testament by JesusTLE::COLLIS::JACKSONFerris wheelThu Mar 11 1993 12:4723
  >John 5. 46 -> For if you believed Moses, you would believe Me; for
  >he wrote about Me.

Jesus equated believing what Moses wrote (which the Bible and tradition 
claim are the first 5 books of the Bible: Exo. 24:4, Num. 33:2, Deut. 31:9, 
Deut. 31:22) to believing Moses and inferred that what Moses said was 
true to the extent that they would recognize Jesus and believe him.

What should they have believed in what Moses wrote?  Jesus does not say.
However, it is wise to note that everwhere that Jesus refers to the
writing in the Old Testament, it is either stated or implied that
the writing was true.

Is this just a happenstance (that Jesus only discusses Old Testament
Scriptures which are true)?  Or is this a principle (that all Old
Testament Scriptures are true) which Jesus uses during His teaching?

Well, every other author in both the Old Testament and the New
Testament follow the exact same pattern - every Scripture quoted
is either stated or assumed to be true.  More examples and other
related information later.

Collis
574.6the LORD speaks through the prophets - does He?TLE::COLLIS::JACKSONFerris wheelMon Mar 15 1993 15:4724
  Deuteronomy 4:1-2

"Hear now, O Israel, the decrees and laws I am about to teach you.
Follow them so that you may live and may go in and take possession
of the land that the LORD, the God of your fathers is giving you.
Do not add to what I command you and do not subtract from it, but
keep the commands of the LORD your God that I give you."

One example of a literary structure that occurs hundreds, perhaps
thousands of times in the Old Testament.  A quote from God is given.

Did God say/reveal this?  Or not?  If He did, then we should believe
Him and follow Him.  If not, we should not believe the person who
claims to speak for God yet does not for this man is worse than
a heathen - he claims to speak for God yet lies.

This same choice is presented to us time and time again.  In Genesis,
in Exodus, in Leviticus, in Numbers, in Deuteronomy, in Joshua,
in Judges...

Did the LORD speak to these "prophets"?  Or not?  This is the
choice.  Will you believe their claim?

Collis