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Conference lgp30::christian-perspective

Title:Discussions from a Christian Perspective
Notice:Prostitutes and tax collectors welcome!
Moderator:CSC32::J_CHRISTIE
Created:Mon Sep 17 1990
Last Modified:Fri Jun 06 1997
Last Successful Update:Fri Jun 06 1997
Number of topics:1362
Total number of notes:61362

561.0. "Christ the divine Autogenes, meaning ?" by HLFS00::HUISMAN_H () Thu Dec 03 1992 06:37

Hello everyone,
    usely I'm a read_only noter and follow some discussions with great interest.
    
But now I have got a question, may be someone can help me out ?
If it is the wrong notes file, please correct me.
    
Last night I was reading "The apocryphon of John" from the
Nag Hammadi library (in a english translation).
There was written : " Christ the divine Autogenes "
    
Who can explain me what Autogenes means ? Is it English ? Is it Greek ?
    
I cannot find it in my English dictionary, neither in the greek one.
    
Many regards Hans Huisman
T.RTitleUserPersonal
Name		DateLines
561.1MPGS::PANDREWSnor can foot feel, being slodThu Dec 03 1992 18:3511
    hans,
    
    while i'm no expert i will hazard an educated guess on
    the meaning of "autogenes" which does appear in my
    unabridged American dictionary as a Greek word meaning
    "self-produced".
    
    Jesus is God from God...and so since He is God...He is
    "self-produced" or the divine autogenes.
    
    peter
561.2PACKED::COLLIS::JACKSONPro-JesusThu Dec 03 1992 19:172
I checked my Greek-English Lexicon; it's not a
word used in the Bible.
561.3REFDV1::SNIDERMANFri Dec 04 1992 17:0414
Hans,

I had the same problem as you when I read this!  My dictionaries
define it as "self created" or "self generated".

Autogenes is included in the Index of Proper Names in the back 
of the NHL.  You may find it valuable to check its use in other
texts in the collection.  The Index also points to the entries 
for the "Self-begotten One". 


Hope this helps,

Joe
561.4Thanks and surprised.HLFS00::HUISMAN_HTue Dec 15 1992 08:5612
Hello Peter, Joe and Jackson?,

Thank you for the replies, for the time being they are very helpful.
Joe, you suggest it's in the back of the book?
I checked mine, but it aint there, are there more versions around?
I guessed there might be only one NHL in english translation.
My version is called :

 The Nag Hammadi Library in English, third edition by James M. Robertson,
 Publisher E.J.Brill 1988
Regards Hans Huisman
561.5CSC32::J_CHRISTIEStrength through peaceTue Dec 15 1992 21:2613
Hans,

	First of all, welcome to C-P!

	It hasn't been mentioned in this string yet, but the Nag Hammadi
texts are generally classified as Gnostic in origin, and therefore, usually
considered heretical.

	I personally don't find what I've read of the Gnostics to be very
threatening.

Peace,
Richard
561.6From the Index...REFDV1::SNIDERMANFri Dec 18 1992 18:2980
                                                            
   Hans,

   I didn't stop to think that there might be differences between
   editions.  I have the First Harper & Row Paperback Edition
   published in 1981. 

   I have entered the references from the index below.  The leftmost
   column has the codex and tractate number.  These are followed by
   the page and line number(s) in the codices.  I can only hope
   that your edition includes this numbering scheme. 


   Regards,

   Joe



	"Autogenes"

 II, 1	 (The Apocryphon of John)
	7:11,16,20,24,33
	8:21,23,26,28,31
	9:1,10

 III, 2  (The Gospel of the Egyptians)
	41:5
	49:17
	50:19,22
	52:8,16
	53:13
	55:5
	57:26
	62:26
	65:13
	68:16

 IX, 2	 (The Thought of Norea)
	28:6

 XI, 3	 (Allogenes)
	46:11
	51:26
	58:12


	"Self-begotten One"

 III, 3	 (Eugnostos the Blessed)
	82:14

 III, 4	 (The Sophia of Jesus Christ)
	106:6

 VII, 5	 (The Three Steles of Seth)
	119:16

 VIII, 1 (Zostrianos)
	6:8,21
	7:3
	12:16
	15:6
	17:7
	18:19
	19:6
	20:7
	30:6,7,15,21
	34:17
	35:11,19
	41:9,10
	44:[31]
	53:17
	56:12,14
	58:14
	127:15

 X, 1	 (Marsanes)
	5:28
561.7Thank you very much.HLFS00::HUISMAN_HSat Dec 19 1992 11:4212
     Dear Joe,

     I like to tell you that your effort for typing it in, was worthfull.
     The numbers you gave me will fit the numbers used in mine edition.
     I appreciate this very much.

     Richard,

     since you have welcomed me, I feel I have to introduce myself.
     I wil do so in note 3.

     Many regards Hans Huisman