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Conference lgp30::christian-perspective

Title:Discussions from a Christian Perspective
Notice:Prostitutes and tax collectors welcome!
Moderator:CSC32::J_CHRISTIE
Created:Mon Sep 17 1990
Last Modified:Fri Jun 06 1997
Last Successful Update:Fri Jun 06 1997
Number of topics:1362
Total number of notes:61362

501.0. "Hospitality" by CSC32::J_CHRISTIE (Only Nixon can go to China) Wed Jul 29 1992 15:25

Hospitality - taking in the traveller - at one time, and for a fairly long
period of time, was considered an important standard of righteous living.

Of course, this was before the days of superhighways, Denny's, MacDonalds,
Budget Inns, and 7-Elevens strewn in virtually identical multiplicity all
over the country.

I wonder if the ease with which one may now travel has contributed to a
lessening of our willingness to provide hospitality.

Modern people are understandibly cautious about whom they share their
domicile with.  Few of us would offer to take in a stranger.

Locally, there is the Red Cross shelter which would take in the stranger.
Few people who've not needed the services of the shelter have ever seen
or been inside it.

I have.  It made my heart sink.  It is nothing against the Red Cross.
They are doing the best they can with what they have.  But the shelter is
nothing more than a warehouse, a cheerless place of storage, for people.
The despair is as tangible as the gray concrete walls.

It is a far cry from hospitality in the biblical sense.

Peace,
Richard
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501.1CVG::THOMPSONRadical CentralistThu May 06 1993 13:4175
    699 reminded me of this topic which I had meant to address some time
    ago. Better late the never I guess.

    The New Testament references that come to mind are two. One is Mark
    4:10-11 

 " 10 And he said unto them, In what place soever ye enter into
   an house, there abide till ye depart from that place.
   11 And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear you, when
   ye depart thence, shake off the dust under your feet for
   a testimony against them. Verily I say unto you, It shall
   be more tolerable for Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment,
    than for that city."

    Also Matthew 25:35

   "35 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was
   thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took
   me in:"

    So I tend to think that hospitality was something that Jesus considered
    important. 

    Now travel was far more difficult in those days but I think the
    principle still applies. This is especially true in cases where
    travelers are in trouble. Cars broken down etc. And I also think that
    Christians have a special responsibility (see Mark reference) to
    assist those traveling on the Lord's business.

>Locally, there is the Red Cross shelter which would take in the stranger.
>Few people who've not needed the services of the shelter have ever seen
>or been inside it.

    As a child/young adult I was at the site of a great many fires that 
    resulted in people losing their homes (my father was and is a chaplain
    with the NYC Fire Department). The Red Cross was always there to help
    people without any place to go find temporary accommodations. Yes, those
    accommodations where often little more then warehouse space. But at
    least it was warm and dry and there was food and clothing available.

    The thing I always found sad was that there were often no friends, 
    relatives, or neighbors to take people in. Churches, especially in
    low income areas, did often serve as temporary shelter though. And
    that is how it should be.

    As a high school kid I traveled with a bicycle group from California
    to Delaware. This was a Christian group founded to provide activities
    for Christian youth (initially boys but long since to include girls).
    We found accommodation where we could. An occasional school, under the
    stars, but mostly we stayed in churches. We were seldom turned away.
    And the hospitality we were shown was often quite amazing. This trip
    was 20+ years ago but the group continues and the hospitality continues
    unabated regardless of the economy. I think that hospitality may be
    one of the signs of a healthy church.

    Hospitality, at least on my last trip 18-19 years ago, seemed to be
    alive and well in the middle east as well. I would not be surprised if
    it was a component of Islam. I remember being welcomed into a house
    after spending some time with the families children. (They'd never had
    a foot of snow before so we taught them about snowmen.) This was not
    a rich house but we were given the best treats they had (good indeed).
    The men were in a separate room sharing a water pipe. Treated as an
    honored guest they set up a new pipe for me. (The one time in my life
    I tried smoking) I only wish we'd shared a language in common. :-(
    The woman in the group who spoke some Hebrew was in the other room with
    the women.

    Oh, in case you are wondering how 699 reminded me of this topic. There
    I mention the Norse religion. In most polytheistic religions the gods
    have a ranking as well as what they were the "god of." One can get
    an idea of how valued something is by the ranking of the god whose
    responsibility it is. In the Norse religion Odin, who was chief of the
    gods, was the god of hospitality, among other things.

    			Alfred
501.2Moderator actionCSC32::J_CHRISTIEDeclare Peace!Thu May 06 1993 16:125
    I moved the notes Alfred refers to in 501.1 (Note 699) to 265.49-51,
    where a "general question note" already existed.
    
    Richard Jones-Christie
    Co-moderator/CHRISTIAN-PERSPECTIVE
501.3CSC32::J_CHRISTIEDeclare Peace!Thu May 06 1993 16:3712
Note 501.1

>	"Verily I say unto you, It shall
>	be more tolerable for Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment,
>	than for that city."

I find it just fascinating that the only time Jesus spoke of Sodom and
Gomorrah (that was recorded) was in connection to hospitality, to welcoming
outsiders.

Richard

501.4SDSVAX::SWEENEYPatrick Sweeney in New YorkThu May 06 1993 17:449
    First to correct Alfred: the quoted passage from Mark is 6:11.

    Correcting Richard, the instruction from Jesus to the Apostles was not
    to be a guest or to seek hospitality.
    
    The instruction was to preach repentance, and the condition that should
    cause one to leave was they were not "received" or "listened to". 
    These are not the components of what in the 1990's are considered to be
    "hospitality".
501.5CVG::THOMPSONRadical CentralistThu May 06 1993 18:236
>    First to correct Alfred: the quoted passage from Mark is 6:11.

    You are correct. My apologies. Fumble fingers on my part.

    		Alfred
    	
501.6CSC32::J_CHRISTIEDeclare Peace!Thu May 06 1993 18:309
    Thanks for straightening me out, Patrick.
    
    Say Alfred, what did you go and mention that verse for, anyway??!
    Can't you see that passage has nothing to do with hospitality
    whatsoever??!
    
    ;-)
    Richard
    
501.7CVG::THOMPSONRadical CentralistThu May 06 1993 18:338
    RE: .6 I don't often disagree with Patrick, but in this case I do.
    I think Jesus was talking to some extent about the welcome of the
    message as far as the shaking off of the dust. However, I believe
    that Jesus was also clearly expecting hospitality from people His
    disciples met on the way. See also Luke 10:5-8 where this story is 
    also told. While the message of Jesus and the need for it to be told 
    is the primary emphasis I believe that an expectation of hospitality
    from "a man of peace" is clear as well.
501.8CSC32::J_CHRISTIEDeclare Peace!Thu May 06 1993 18:415
    .7 Gosh, Alfred.  I was just ribbing you a little bit.
    
    :-)
    Richard
    
501.9COVERT::COVERTJohn R. CovertThu May 06 1993 18:5611
501.10CSC32::J_CHRISTIEDeclare Peace!Thu May 06 1993 19:505
    Yeah, Alfred!  How could you have misrepresented these verses so!
    
    ;-)
    Richard
    
501.11inhospitality is *seriously* wrongLGP30::FLEISCHERwithout vision the people perish (DTN 297-5780, MRO3-3/L16)Fri Sep 30 1994 12:0053
re Note 91.4361 by BIGQ::SILVA:

> | <<< Note 91.4358 by SNOC02::LINCOLNR "Ignorance = Fear" >>>
> 
> 	Hi Rob! Glad to see you back in here!
> 
> | A sodomite is a person who's sin is one of inhospitality. This was considered 
> | a grave sin in the Old Testament because it could mean the death of a 
> | traveller.
> 
> 	Then when those people who were in Washington last year screaming out,
> "You sodomites would burn in Hell", were not talking about homosexuals, but of
> people who were inhospitable? I don't think that was what they meant. I guess
> the twisting of Sodom into meaning a gay type word has done a job.
  
        According to Matthew 25:31-46, the inhospitable *will* "go
        away into everlasting punishment".

        "When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the
        holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of
        his glory:  And before him shall be gathered all nations: and
        he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd
        divideth [his] sheep from the goats:  And he shall set the
        sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.  Then
        shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye
        blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you
        from the foundation of the world:  For I was an hungered, and
        ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a
        stranger, and ye took me in:  Naked, and ye clothed me: I was
        sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto
        me.  Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when
        saw we thee an hungered, and fed [thee]? or thirsty, and gave
        [thee] drink?  When saw we thee a stranger, and took [thee]
        in? or naked, and clothed [thee]?  Or when saw we thee sick,
        or in prison, and came unto thee?  And the King shall answer
        and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have
        done [it] unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have
        done [it] unto me.  Then shall he say also unto them on the
        left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire,
        prepared for the devil and his angels:  For I was an
        hungered, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave
        me no drink:  I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked,
        and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me
        not.  Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw
        we thee an hungered, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or
        sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?  Then
        shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch
        as ye did [it] not to one of the least of these, ye did [it]
        not to me.  And these shall go away into everlasting
        punishment: but the righteous into life eternal."


        Bob
501.12BIGQ::SILVAMemories.....Fri Sep 30 1994 14:537
| <<< Note 501.11 by LGP30::FLEISCHER "without vision the people perish (DTN 297-5780, MRO3-3/L16)" >>>

| According to Matthew 25:31-46, the inhospitable *will* "go
| away into everlasting punishment".


	I believe those people from Washington were very inhospitable...