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Conference lgp30::christian-perspective

Title:Discussions from a Christian Perspective
Notice:Prostitutes and tax collectors welcome!
Moderator:CSC32::J_CHRISTIE
Created:Mon Sep 17 1990
Last Modified:Fri Jun 06 1997
Last Successful Update:Fri Jun 06 1997
Number of topics:1362
Total number of notes:61362

458.0. "Love and Fear" by CSC32::J_CHRISTIE (Peace Reservist) Mon May 25 1992 21:47

	Near the end of the New Testament there are 3 letters called
First, Second and Third John (not to be confused with the Gospel of
John).  One of the amazing proclamations in First John is that "perfect
love casts out fear."

	As has been pointed out in another note, all emotional responses
are rooted in either love or fear.  Anger and hatred, for example, most
of the time are really aggressive forms of fear.

	I would like to point out that it has been my observation that
when love is less than perfect, fear has the potential to cast out, or
at least displace, love.

	Have you any thoughts on love and fear?

Peace,
Richard
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458.1CVG::THOMPSONDECWORLD 92 Earthquake TeamTue May 26 1992 12:448
>	As has been pointed out in another note, all emotional responses
>are rooted in either love or fear.  Anger and hatred, for example, most
>of the time are really aggressive forms of fear.

	I reject this postulate, so beyond saying that, I will refrain from
	furthor comment.

			Alfred
458.2CSC32::J_CHRISTIEPeace ReservistTue May 26 1992 17:197
    Alfred .1,
    
    	What is the foundation of your rejection?  Contradictory evidence?
    Not familiar enough with the postulation to accept it?  Other reasons?
    
    Peace,
    Richard
458.3CVG::THOMPSONDECWORLD 92 Earthquake TeamTue May 26 1992 18:5126
> What is the foundation of your rejection?

	o No evidence to support it.
	o Appears inconsistant with my own observations.
	
	I believe human diversity of emotion is great. Binary options are
	almost always over simplistic when one tries to fit them into the
	real world. Also I do not believe that love and fear are diametrically
	opposed to one an other. I think even in this conference we've had
	conversations about both loving and fearing the Lord. 

	There is a manual that I've been using in the volenteer work I've
	been doing in the local county prison. One of the things it points
	out, though I don't have the reference in front of me, is that the
	lack of being able to identify more then a small number of emotions
	is characteristic of many prisoners. It's an indication that they have
	a narrow world view that restricts their options. I'm paraphrasing a
	bit but I believe that was the message. I guess I have come to believe
	that a healthy outlook on life requires that one believe in and be
	able to feel a wider variety of emotion.

	Fear and hate need not be related. One may love what they fear. One
	may hate things that they do not fear. One may be frustrated by things
	they hate, or love, or fear, or just plain don't understand.

			ALfred
458.4CSC32::J_CHRISTIEPeace ReservistTue May 26 1992 21:047
    Alfred .3,
    
    	Fair enough.  Permit me to recommend a book, however.  It's entitled,
    "Love Means Letting Go of Fear," by Gerald Jampolski, M.D..
    
    Peace,
    Richard
458.5a second!!ATSE::FLAHERTYWings of fire: Percie and meWed May 27 1992 13:0415
    Alfred,
    
    I second Richard's recommendation for Gerry Jampolski's book (any of
    his books are excellent).  He bases his philosophy on A Course in
    Miracles, but don't let that bias you against "Love is Letting Go of
    Fear".  ;')  He also wrote an autobiography, entitled Out of Darkness
    (or something like that) that is a very open account of his personal
    spiritual journey.
    
    Richard,  has Sharon read Marianne Williamson's A Return to Love Yet?
    It is still the number one selling book in the country.  I think she
    (and you) would enjoy it.
    
    Ro
    
458.6Love & FearTFH::KIRKa simple songMon Jun 06 1994 19:1548
A decade ago my church had an "Alcohol Awareness" Service.  Instead of the
usual sermon, our then deacon and another gentleman spoke.  Our deacon was an
alcoholic who grew up in an abusive family. As he told his story, I recognized
many similarities in my own family of origin.  The other gentleman was a
therapist who specialized in dealing with alcoholics and their families. 

In speaking with our deacon and the other gentleman after the service, I was
told about several 12 step programs, and the deacon volunteered to take me to
an Adult Children of Alcoholics meeting. 

As it turned out, he was unable to accompany me, but I went anyway, and let me 
tell you, I was scared.  The people I met at that meeting, horrors!  One, an 
obese women (actually several), one, an effeminate man who spoke with a lisp.
Another person with terrible crooked teeth, with a couple missing.  A man who 
looked like he'd just stepped out of a motorcycle gang; black leather, tattoos
and a beer gut.  In all, a bunch of losers.  "Thank you Lord that I am not 
like them."

But I was.  And that scared me more.  I listened to their stories, and again I 
thouroughly identified with them.  For the recommended 6 weeks I spent every 
Thursday evening with these people, in their "beginner's meeting".  Nothing 
was demanded of me other than to listen and want to get better.

Better than what?  Better than all the rules and abuse which had filled my 
life.  Things I'd never even noticed as being not "normal".  All of a sudden
many basic tenets I had grown up with were shaken. "Don't tell", yet these
people were telling.  Don't show emotion, yet these people were crying!  (and
tears were coming to my eyes, as well.) 

After six weeks, I was invited to attend the main meeting.  I listened.
I learned.  Eventually I was able to share my name.  Then a sentence here, 
a paragraph there.  I started to give of myself, I started telling my story, 
and these people listened, and understood, because their stories were not so 
different than mine.

Another thing happened as well.  I started to see beauty in these people I 
once abhorred.  There was strength there, strength of character.  Yes, I still 
noticed that this person had a problem with weight, and that person had a 
speech impediment, but that was not who they were.  They were good, loving 
people.  Even bikers can be loving and warmhearted.

In the few years since those days I have come across quite a range of people.
Hurt people, imperfect people.  But they no longer scare me.  True love casts 
out fear.

Peace,

Jim
458.7JULIET::MORALES_NASweet Spirit's Gentle BreezeTue Jun 07 1994 03:238
    .6
    
    Deep down inside all of us can be a commonality if we only allow the
    door to open wide enough for one to see.
    
    I couldn't agree with you more.
    
    
458.8SNOC02::LINCOLNRNo Pain, No Gain...Tue Jun 07 1994 08:5218
    Jim,
    
    Thanks for writing that.  It was beautiful.  Things like that are good
    to experience as sometimes we all get the feeling that "we are somehow
    better than those around us", that our sins are somehow more sanitized
    than another sinner's, that our sins at least are more socially
    acceptable.  
    
    We in humility must always remember that we are better than NO one
    else.  One of the best things my parents did for me when I was growing
    up was keep "bringing me down to Earth".  Any rising notions of false
    superiority were quickly corrected. Thank God that He sent Jesus to
    save us and to fix things up!
    
    Rob