Conference lgp30::christian-perspective

re .0

Richard,

I do not believe Jesus would request someone to do this, it would set my alarm
bells ringing as it were.

;	The speaker posed this question: "If Jesus were here with you right
;now and were to say to you, 'Today I go to the cross and I want you to go up
;there with me,' what answer do you think you would give him?"

Jesus has already given his human life a sacrifice once and for all time,
Hewbrews 10:12 RSV reads "But when Christ had offered for all time a single
sacrifice for sins, he sat down at the right hand of God," Christians need
to apply faith in this ransom sacrifice. This faith in the ransom is the only 
one acceptable to Jehovah God, for 1 Timothy 2:3-7 RSV reads "This is good,
and it is acceptable in the sight of God our saviour, who desires all men
to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. For there is one God,
and there is one mediator between God and man, the man Christ Jesus, who gave
himself a ransom for all, the testimony to which was borne at the proper time.
For this I was appointed a preacher a preacher and apostle (I am telling the
truth, I am not lying), a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and truth."


But didn't Jesus say in Luke 9:23-26 NWT "If anyone wants to come after me,
let him disown himself and pick up his torture stake day after day and follow
me continually. For whoever wants to save his soul will lose it; but whoever
loses his soul for my sake is the one that will save it. Really, what does a 
man benefit himself if he gains the whole world but loses his own self or
suffers damage? For whoever becomes ashamed of me and of my words, the Son
of man will be ashamed of this one when he arrives in his glory and that of
the Father and of the holy angels." Those that follow Jesus' pattern closely
need to remember that if Jesus was persecuted it is likely that they will 
suffer too. A modern day example, was German Jehovah's Witnesses during World 
War II who were put into concentration camps not because of their nationality 
but because they would not compromise their faith. Many died, but these ones
could have been set free if they recanted their faith by just signing a peice 
of paper.

;	How far would you be willing to go to follow your beliefs?

Hopefully all the way, but these are mere words. For it is easy to sign a
piece of paper especially in the face of death. Though signing such a piece 
of paper may give a brief extension to ones life, one should take into account 
that it is only through placing faith in Jesus' ransom sacrifice that one will 
gain eternal life. But to do so one would need to know all about the ransom 
sacrifice, otherwise how could one place faith in it.

Phil. 

        God gives us the grace we need in little things and big things and
    it's up to us to accept/utilize it or not. The gift of grace is
    perfectly 'sized' to the need. Therefore at this time I may not be
    able to renounce my job or physical life for Christ because I'm not 
    called to those sacrifices at this time. When the time comes when
    the Lord either Will it or allows it then my faith tells me that
    His Grace will be there to help me persevere.
    
        St. Theresa the Little Flower wrote something to the effect that it
    is harder to 'die for Christ' day in and day out when we are confronted
    with the frustrations, hostilities, pains, and trials of life than it
    is to be a one-time heroic martyr. She was not intending to put down
    the great sacrifice of Christian martyrs, but rather to point out the
    truth that our lives are full of challenges which call us to put self-
    interest aside to live as God Wills. 
    
        Christian writer John Shea, on audio cassette, told a story about
    being approached one day on the beach by two young, scrubbed, and
    impeccably suited Christian evangelists. While sunning on the sand,
    these two young men came up to John and asked him if he "knew the 
    Lord."  In a tone of wry and understated humor, John answered,
    "Yes, unfortunatly." Of course John is happy to know the Lord, but
    his answer was a response that spoke of the high price of true
    Christian discipleship. Rejecting sin, crucifying our affections,
    and being in service to the Lord takes committment and a constant
    willingness to do God's Will. We need the gifts of the Holy Spirit
    and every grace from God to follow Christ.
    
    Peace of Jesus,
    
    Mary
    
    
     

    Re: 0
    
    In an objective view, I'd say we all follow our beliefs 100%.  To the
    extent we doubt we would be inclined to follow belief less intently.  
    
    So all those who had 100% faith and believe, would go...and it would
    begin to pyramid from there.
    
    Playtoe

     For some reason this topic reminds me of a joke I heard
   Justin Wilson tell:
  
       "There was this reverend who traveled around in an old
      school bus preaching the Bible any place he could gather
      up a crowd.
        One day he was preaching in a up storm in a parking lot.
      He really had the crowd fired up.
         "Do you believe in the Word ? !"
         "Yes, Yes, We Do ! !"
         "Do you believe in heaven ? !"
         "Yes, Yes We Do ! !"
         "Do want to go to heaven ? !"
         "Yes, Yes We Do ! !"
         "Everybody who wants to go to heaven get aboard
          my bus !"

        Everyone in the crowd except for one old man climbed aboard
      the preachers bus.
        The preacher walked up to the old man and asked him," How come
      you didn't get on the bus ? Don't you want to go to heaven ?

      "Sure do" said the old man, "but not right now."

    

                                                         Mike

    From Herman Hesse's novel "Steppenwolf":
    
    'Now what we call "bourgeois," when regarded as an element always to be
    found in human life, is nothing else than the search for balance.  It is
    the striving after a mean between the countless extremes and opposites
    that arise in human conduct.  If we take any one of these coupled
    opposites, such as piety and profligacy, the analogy is immediately
    comprehensible.  It is open to a man to give himself up wholly to
    spiritual views, to seeking after God, to the ideal of saintliness.  On
    the other hand, he can equally give himself up entirely to the life of
    instinct, to the lusts of the flesh, and so direct all his efforts to
    the attainment of momentary pleasures.  The one path leads to the saint,
    to the martyrdom of the spirit and surrender to God.  The other path
    leads to the profligate, to the martyrdom of the flesh, the surrender to
    corruption.  Now it is between the two, in the middle of the road, that
    the bourgeois seeks to walk.  He will never surrender himself either to
    lust or to asceticism.  He will never be a martyr or agree to his own
    destruction.  On the contrary, his ideal is not to give up but to
    maintain his own identity.  He strives neither for the saintly nor its
    opposite.  The absolute is his abhorrence.  He may be ready to serve
    God, but not by giving up the fleshpots.  He is ready to be virtuous,
    but likes to be easy and comfortable in this world as well.  In short,
    his aim is to make a home for himself between two extremes in a
    temperate zone without violent storms and tempests; and in this he
    succeeds though it be at the cost of that intensity of life and feeling
    which an extreme life affords.  A man cannot live intensely except at
    the cost of the self.  Now the bourgeois treasures nothing more highly
    than the self (rudimentary as his may be).  And so at the cost of
    intensity he achieves his own preservation and security.  His harvest is
    a quite mind which he prefers to being possessed by God, as he does
    comfort to pleasure, convenience to liberty, and a pleasant temperature
    to the deathly inner consuming fire.  The bourgeois is consequently by
    nature a creature of weak impulses, anxious, fearful of giving himself
    away and easy to rule.  Therefore, he has substituted majority for
    power, law for force, and the polling booth for responsibility.'

    It's easy to love Jesus.  To most, he's an abstraction, like the idea
    of infinity.
    
    It's hard to love your spouse when he or she is tired and can't help,
    or your children when they are disobedient, and co-workers that you
    can't get along with, or the poor drivers on the road, or other people
    we encounter.
    
    The real test of imitation of the life of Jesus come in the long series
    or ordinary episodes in life, not the outcome of a singular mediation
    on whether we'd die on the cross.