Conference lgp30::christian-perspective

From the Greek "metanoia"

to repent
to have a change of heart
to rethink
to change one's outlook or way of thinking (a paradigm shift)
to see through new eyes

Richard

    RE: Repentance and Forgiveness
    
    According to note 1, with which I agree, "sincere regret" for what one
    has done is not "repentance"...just because one "sincerely regrets"
    what they have done does not mean they won't do it again or will stop
    doing it if they are doing it at that time.  All to often we hear it
    said, "I [sincerely regret] that this has happened or been done to you
    but it was necessary."  Which shows that regret and repentance may not
    be and is not the same thing.
    
    In answer to the basenote question, however, "repentance" is necessary
    for the "forgiveness" of sins.  As it written, "and when sin is
    completed then the judgement comes".  And there are many other
    references, but this one helps me make my point, as follows.
    
    Consider Satan and his rebellion, God is allowing Satan's rebellion to
    "run it's course" (for awhile, anyway) until either he discovers the
    error of his ways or he becomes the "son of perdition" and there's no
    hope of repentance.  This theology comes from advanced studies of
    scripture, but is generally stated in the NT.
    
    We can pray for ourselves while in the midst of sin, though
    unrepentent, we can be protected while in them.  For instance, while we
    fornicate and do so again and again, if we pray that we know it is
    wrong and that God have mercy on us, we shall receive it.  But if we
    clearly have in mind to do it again and again we will not be forgiven
    by God, we will not be granted "immunity", or not be "imputed" for such
    sin.
    
    Bottomline, however, I think John the Baptist makes it quite clear,
    REPENT, CHANGE YOUR WAYS, THE KINGDOM OF GOD IS AT HAND.  That is a
    warning.  "Fear of the Lord is the beginning of Wisdom." Proverbs.
    
    Playtoe 

    Boy this conference system is slow today!
    
    Anyway, I was thinking.  More than our rationalizing the principle
    here, our knowledge of the meaning of it and it's intent.  As we were
    just discussing regarding the meaning of "Religious" and "Religion" as
    being the "faith [in God] and the act it compels", perhaps we can
    understand "repentance and forgiveness" best by giving some examples.
    
    Why doesn't somebody give an actual scenario of a situation and let's
    analyse it?
    
    I believe that the question of forgiveness is henged upon our "return
    to God and his righteousness" moreso than the "letter of the law" as it
    were.
    
    Playtoe

I have often wondered how many who claim to have repented, that is, to have
a change of heart and mind, really have.  You would think a such a change
would have a profound and visible effect on one's whole life.  Yet, it rarely
does.  Why do you suppose this is?

Richard

    re  -1
    
    There is a simple answer to this Mystery. It has to do with a certain
    highly prized Icon. Sometimes its made of woven reeds, others silver or
    even gold. Its often round with with a covering of velvet to mute the
    sound of rapidly descending coin of the realm!
    
    john

Note 3.119, re: .0

Name:  Richard Jones-Christie

Sin:  Adultery (former spouse still alive)
Repentance:  I will sincerely attempt to refrain from marrying my first
             wife again.

Sin:  Imperfect parenting, especially as a stepparent.
Repentance:  I will sincerely attempt to refrain from having any more
             children to parent.

Sin:  I've had a vasectomy, a sin in the eyes of some.
Repentance:  I will sincerely attempt to refrain from having another
             vasectomy.

    Zen words:
    
    Sin is not real in its nature, only arising when thought arises.
    When mind disappears, sin will also be destroyed.
    
    After mind disappears and sin is destroyed, then originally both are
    empty.
    
    That is what is called, true repentance.

re 1222.15

;    God makes it all possible.  Faith, repentance, justification, adoption,
;    sanctification, and glorification are all God's work through the grace
;    of our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ.  

Jeff,

Yes, God makes all things possible. But rather than giving people repentance,
he leads people to repentance. The only person who can repent is the individual
themselves, not God for them. Otherwise, if one followed your thoughts through 
to their logical conclusion in line with 2 Peter 3:9 , then one would have to 
conclude that all will be saved for it's God's desire is that all attain 
repentance, no?. And yet we know not all will be saved.

To conclude, Acts 26:20 KJV reads "But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and
at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judea, and then to the Gentiles,
that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance."

Notice the emphasis was for all individuals to repent and do works fitting of
repentance.

If one leaves it all to God, then one will never attain repentance (James 2:26). 

Phil. 

    
    I said God makes it possible, i.e. He leads people to repentence.  Yes,
    people must repent!  But they cannot do so without God's graceful act
    of regeneration.
    
    jeff

re .9

Jeff,

So let me understand your view, if God wants all to repent (well
2 Peter 3:9 reads that way) then does God make this act of 
regeneration for all?.

Phil.

    
    No.
    
    jeff

re .11

Jeff,

Ok so, from your viewpoint, does this mean that God doesn't 
lead all to repentance and 2 Peter 3:9 should be understood 
differently? (that is 'all' doesn't mean all of sinful mankind) 

Phil.

    
    That's correct, Phil.
    
    jeff

Jeff,

Thanks, I now understand your position. Even so, I disagree
with it, for as I have pointed out before God is no respector
of persons. A lesson Peter himself had to learn (Acts 10:34,35).

You know everyone is in need of repentance, hence Jesus used
the illustration of the lost sheep in Luke 15. Verse 7 reads
"I say to you, that likewise joy shall be in heaven over one
sinner that repenteth, more than over ninety and nine just
persons, which have no need of repentance."

The self righteous Pharisees had no need of repentance, but 
just one person who recognised his sinful state and saw the
need to turn round and seek God brought great joy to the
heavenly realm.

The good news is available to all and can be effective with
all if the recipient would listen and has a responsive heart
(compare illustration of the sower and the seed in Matthew 13)

Phil.

    
    God made all His plans before the foundation of the world and without
    conditions.  Those whom God saves are saved by His love and mercy,
    without condition or respect to their behavior or any other thing in
    them.
    
    jeff
    
    

re .15

Jeff,

Regarding the "foundation of the world", Jesus actually makes a paralell
with this with the time of Abel in Luke 11:50,51. Check it out in your 
own Bible.  So this would point to a time after the rebellion in Eden
that God saw fit to produce a seed (Genesis 3:15).

Phil.

    
    No, there is no parallel.  God made His plans *before* the foundation
    of the world.  Jesus is talking about *since* the foundation of the
    world.
    
    jeff