[Search for users] [Overall Top Noters] [List of all Conferences] [Download this site]

Conference lgp30::christian-perspective

Title:Discussions from a Christian Perspective
Notice:Prostitutes and tax collectors welcome!
Moderator:CSC32::J_CHRISTIE
Created:Mon Sep 17 1990
Last Modified:Fri Jun 06 1997
Last Successful Update:Fri Jun 06 1997
Number of topics:1362
Total number of notes:61362

276.0. "What is the meaning of life?" by CSC32::J_CHRISTIE (Full of green M&M's) Sat Jul 13 1991 02:03

    Inspired by 274.7, this note to explore and discuss the meaning of life.
    
    Peace,
    Richard
T.RTitleUserPersonal
Name
DateLines
276.1CVG::THOMPSONSemper GumbySat Jul 13 1991 16:254
    "For me to die is gain, to live is Christ" Or words to that effect.
    I'll look it up when I can. My best Bible is at work.
    
    		Alfred
276.2SA1794::SEABURYMZen: It's Not What You ThinkSat Jul 13 1991 20:2412
        <<< LGP30::DKA300:[NOTES$LIBRARY]CHRISTIAN-PERSPECTIVE.NOTE;1 >>>
                 -< Discussions from a Christian Perspective >-
================================================================================
Note 6.269              Inspirational Quotes and Messages             269 of 285
SA1794::SEABURYM "Zen: It's Not What You Think"       6 lines  18-JUN-1991 08:11
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

        "The purpose of life consists of determining what you have
         to offer the world and then making that offering valid."


                                                   -Thomas Merton
276.3Rev. 4:11CSC32::LECOMPTEMARANATHA!Tue Jul 16 1991 05:026

Revelation   4: 11

Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power; for thou hast   
created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.             
276.442TFH::KIRKa simple songTue Jul 16 1991 12:2511
The answer to the BIG question...about Life, the Universe, and EVERYTHING!

.-)

Jim


p.s.  Read Douglas Adams' humor/SF _HitchHiker's_ 4 book trilogy (HitchHiker's 
Guide to the Galaxy_, _The Restaurant at the End of the Universe_, _Life, the 
Universe, and Everything_, & _So Long, and Thanks for All the Fish_) if 
you don't understand... .-)
276.5But what was the question??? :-)BSS::VANFLEETRing around the moon...Tue Jul 16 1991 13:545
Jim - 

You beat me to it!

Nanci
276.6The purpose is learning...SWAM1::DOTHARD_STPLAYTOETue Jul 16 1991 18:0046
    RE: The Meaning of Life
    
    I want to elaborate or expand this a little.
    
    Indeed we are created by and for the pleasure of God, it is his will
    that we are here.  But what purpose?  Of course, simply put, we are
    here to please God.  However, it was said of Enoch, that he pleased
    God, and therefore God took him...it never elaborated on "how he
    pleased God, specifically".  The answer, furthermore, does not seem to
    be written in the bible directly...I have, however, found elaborations
    other writings.
    
    One book which elaborates is entitled "Metu Neter" (which means Speech
    of God, in Egyptian), by Ra Un Nefer Amen, an Egyptian priest of 20
    years, and native Egyptian.
    
    In it he states that, God being incorporeal, desired to experience
    corporality and created manifested things, and then came into those
    things.  Thus all living things are God, and that's why it is said, God
    is in all things at all times.  We, are therefore Spirit in flesh,
    temporarily, in a learning environment.  As it is written, when we know
    Christ we come to realize we are aliens from a far off land, in the
    world but not of it.  Many seeds are planted in the earth, many spirits
    are planted in the flesh, but not all seeds are blessed enough to find
    themselves in the proper soil or environment, the firm foundation,
    which makes it possible for them to grow and mature and bear fruit.  We
    being of the spirit, must therefore "cultivate" our spirit, the inner
    man/women towards pleasing God, for the purpose of eternal life,
    because God has a desire that we should all live.  Thus, pleasing God
    is a matter of doing those things that tend to eternal life in us.
    
    Our purpose here, in the flesh, is to learn from the trials and
    temptations, as Paul said, "The sufferings in this life is nothing
    compared to the glory to be revealed in us."  
    
    We sing praises to God, continuously, as we come to the realization
    that God is US, in US, for US, JES-US!  
    
    He who loves God hates the world...the world passes away but God's word
    endureth forever.  We are fundamentally WORD, or an IDEA.  In the Metu
    Neter, METU means not only verbal word, but image or vision WORD.  With
    each word sound there is a corresponding image or vision, or as Plato
    says "FORM".  Each idea has a corresponding form...all this is related
    to the "Purpose of Life"...
    
    Playtoe
276.7CARTUN::BERGGRENplaying between shadow and lightWed Jul 17 1991 12:0315
    to learn and grow in love and compassion.
    
    to deepen my relationship with the Divine.
    
    to appreciate the mysteries life.
    
    to enjoy the questions which birth the answers.
    
    to make the perfect hot fudge sundae, (and eat it).
    
    to see the Divine in all things and all things in the Divine.
    
    to love and care for the earth.
    
    Kb
276.8CSC32::J_CHRISTIECenterpeaceMon Jul 22 1991 21:515
          Ultimately, I believe the meaning of life
                            is found in becoming fully alive.
    
          Peace,
          Richard
276.9JURAN::VALENZAToo thick to staple.Thu Aug 22 1991 11:484
    Life is a never ending struggle to keep one's suppply of pennies down
    to a minimum.
    
    -- Mike
276.10WMOIS::REINKE_Bbread and rosesThu Aug 22 1991 13:028
    -- Mike!
    
    Oh NO! You should see my desk drawer, I've got two compartments full
    of pennies and am working on a third!
    
    What do I do?
    
    Bonnie
276.11JURAN::VALENZAToo thick to staple.Thu Aug 22 1991 13:591
    Sounds like a case of existential despair, Bonnie.  :-)
276.12About life...NYTP07::LAMThu Aug 22 1991 14:193
    From Erma Bombeck:
    
    If life is a bowl of cherries, what I am doing with all the pits..
276.13WMOIS::REINKE_Bbread and rosesThu Aug 22 1991 14:541
    What if I give them all to someone else Mike? :-)
276.14JURAN::VALENZAToo thick to staple.Thu Aug 22 1991 16:003
    That's fine--just don't give them to me!  :-)
    
    -- Mike
276.15DEMING::VALENZAToo stapled to note.Mon Aug 26 1991 00:5429
    Actually, on a more serious note, this question of the meaning of life
    is a serious one for me.  Like, I imagine, a lot of teenagers, I began
    ruminating on this question during my adolescence; but, perhaps because
    I have never found a fully satisfactory answer, I have never stopped
    thinking about it.  When I first began to ask this question, I had
    accepted the tenets of fundamentalist Christianity; because I could not
    find the answers I sought in the religion I had heretofore embraced, I
    broke with my religious faith and decided that God did not exist. 
    Adolescence is a time of extremes; I went from one extreme to the other
    in my religious beliefs.

    But the questions remained, and through further seeking I came to the
    conclusion, that God probably exists after all.   That was as gut
    wrenching a decision as the decision to become an atheist, and both
    experiences gave me first hand knowledge of just how difficult it can be
    for people to alter their basic world views, and it explains why people
    tend to defend their systems of belief at all costs.  My tentative and,
    sometime even questioning acceptance of the existence of God is not the
    same as it was as a youth; my beliefs have not gone full circle.  I had
    to, in effect, reinvent my theology, from scratch, after a lot of soul
    searching, reading, and discussion.  And the process still continues.

    But a belief in God doesn't necessarily imply a particular answer to
    the question of the meaning of life.  Many people have different
    conceptions of God, and consequently different views on theodicy, life
    after death, and so on.  I don't yet have a final answer, and that is
    why I am still searching.

    -- Mike
276.16DEMING::VALENZAIt ain't over til the noter sings.Mon Aug 26 1991 02:04140
    I recently finished reading two books by Albert Camus:  his essay, "The
    Myth of Sisyphus", and his novel "The Stranger".  The essay, which was
    written just prior to the novel, expresses Camus's philosophy of The
    Absurd.  The novel fleshes out this theme artistically.

    Camus is usually identified as an existentialist, and his doctrine of
    The Absurd is often assumed to be extremely pessimistic; but his
    philosophy is actually very much life affirming.  He begins by posing
    the question of the "meaning of life" in the most direct possible
    terms:  he suggests that the only philosophical problem that really
    matters is the question of suicide.  Only once that issue is resolved
    can the more esoteric issues of philosophy be evaluated.

    For Camus, life is characterized by a fundamental contradiction, which
    he terms The Absurd.  On the one hand, humans wish for a world that is
    meaningful, rational, and characterized by a unifying principle; he
    refers to this desire as "nostalgia".  On the other hand, he argues,
    the world is without such an eternal, rational principle; our actions
    are ultimately meaningless because we die, and because time ultimately
    erodes the consequences of our actions into nothingness.

    Clearly, from the outset, Camus is presupposing that there is no God,
    and no eternal life.  Thus, one might reasonably ask what possible
    value Camus's philosophy has for the Christian.  I think that is a valid
    question, but I think Camus is important for two reasons.  First, his
    viewpoint characterizes, to one degree or another, a point of view
    that is not at all unusual in the world, and it must therefore be
    confronted head on.  Secondly, and I think this is very important--I
    think that, while I don't entirely agree with him, he does raise some
    important issues.

    But let us assume for a moment that Camus's presupposition is correct. 
    For Camus, any philosophy which seeks to transcend this Absurd reality,
    with some sort of ultimate hope, commits what he calls "philosophical
    suicide".  He extends this criticism to existentialist philosophers,
    including, for example, the devoutly Christian Kierkegaard--the father
    of existentialism.   For Camus, philosophy must at all times accept the
    fundamental contradiction that lies at the bottom of the The Absurd. 
    This means accepting the reality of human nostalgia for a unifying and
    eternal reality, and also accepting that this eternal reality does not
    exist.  From this we might infer that Camus is offering a philosophy of
    hopelessness.  In a sense that is true, because Camus rejects "hope" as
    philosophical suicide for any existentialist.  But for Camus--and this
    is key--the proper response, in the face of this absurdity of human
    existence--is threefold, consisting of revolt, freedom, and passion. 
    Humans who accept the absurd must accept their fate, but rebel against
    it, living life to the fullest in each moment, precisely because there
    is no future.

    The essay describes the application of Camus's philosophy in specific
    examples of life.  Camus also presents his philosophy of art in this
    context.  In "The Stranger", we see Camus putting his philosophy of art
    into action.  The novel describes a man who is drawn into committing a
    murder, and then facing the consequences from society for his action. 
    In "The Stranger", we see echoes of the absurd reality.  Life is
    presented in terms of absurd choices, choices devoid of hope and
    ultimate purpose.  This is summarized early on, during a funeral
    procession the the stifling Algerian heat:  "If you go slowly, you risk
    getting sunstroke.  But if you go too fast, you work up a sweat and
    then catch a chill inside the church."   When the protagonist takes his
    final, fateful steps to committing murder, he writes:

        I just stood there, my head ringing from the sun, unable to face
        the effort it would take to climb the wooden staircase and face the
        women again.  But the heat was so intense that it was just as bad
        standing still in the blinding stream falling from the sky.  To
        stay or go, it amounted to the same thing.  A minute later I turned
        back toward the beach and started walking.

    As I mentioned, though this all sounds very depressing, Camus's
    philosophy of revolt, passion, and freedom in the face of this
    absurdity is actually very life affirming.  Nevertheless, there are
    reasons for objecting to his philosophy.

    For many Christians, the solution is simple; their life is not absurd
    because they have eternal life.  This is, to them, the "good news" of
    Christianity.  Camus would have dismissed that point of view out of
    hand, much as he dismissed Kierkegaard, for its reliance on a final
    appeal that saves the individual from the ultimately lack of eternal
    meaning, and furthermore representing an appeal to something *outside*
    of the life that we experience here.  Camus was not interested in a
    world beyond what we know here and now; to him, it was the absurdity of
    *this* world that was crucial.

    This suggests that the possibility life after death is only part of the
    problem.  The other point is that the world we experience here and now,
    in his view, displays a lack of eternal meaning for human beings. 
    Camus alludes, in his essay, to the problem of evil as it relates to an
    omnipotent being.  And this point is, in my view, very important
    indeed.  We clearly live in a world that displays considerable
    irrationality.  We see hatred and suffering, despite our best
    intentions.  We live in a world in which people suffer and die, good
    people; and in which evil sometimes triumphs.  Does this not prove
    that the world indeed is absurd?

    Tragic, yes; absurd, no.  That is my take on the issue.  The
    irrationalities that we see in the world are due to the fact that the
    world is a multiplicity.  But a multiplicity does not also exclude some
    sort of ultimate unity as well, at a higher level.  By that I mean that
    we indeed co-exist with a multiplicity of free creatures, and it is
    that multiplicity of freedom that creates the conditions of conflict
    and suffering.  It is the multiplicity that creates our
    irrationalities, and thus our tragedies.  But I also believe that there
    is a God, and this God, though a unity that transcends, is also
    immanent in the multiplicity of the world.

    What we do in this world matters, even if we are not eternal, because
    God is eternal.  And this, to me, is the "good news", and would be the
    good news whether or not any of us have a life after death.  If God is
    eternal, and if God is affected by what we do, then our actions
    permanently and irrevocably enhance the divine life.  This is the
    doctrine of objective immortality.  I believe that objective
    immortality gives ultimate, transcendent meaning to our lives, even if
    there is no subjective immortality for the individual humans who live
    in the world.

    Of course, if we do not survive after our death, this would be a great
    tragedy.  It would certainly contradict our hopes.  But a tragedy, I
    believe, is not an absurdity.  Ultimately, God as a unifying principle
    serves as the eternal purpose in our lives.  God guides us as we make
    our free choices in the world.   Furthermore, God gives a purpose to
    what we do in *this world*, and thus what happens in this world really
    matters.

    Perhaps Camus has something to offer to us as we face the little
    absurdities, the small irrationalities that govern our lives.  We are
    still faced with the fact that the world does not meet our expectations
    of how we wish it to be, and in that sense we are forced to accept a
    fundamental tension in the everyday, one that we should face with
    neither a false hope nor a faulty belief that somehow everything that
    happens in the world is always "for the best".  I believe that much of
    what we face in the world is most certainly not for the best, that they
    represent the failings of free creatures in the universe.  As free
    creatures, we stumble and make a failed world.  The ultimate
    rationality of the world lies not in everything being "for the best",
    but in there being higher principles to guide us--principles that stem
    from God--and in our actions making an ultimate difference, not just in
    the short run to each other, but eternally to God.

    -- Mike
276.17JURAN::VALENZAThus noteth the maven.Sun Oct 20 1991 18:1643
    "Dover Beach", by Matthew Arnold

    The sea is calm to-night.
    The tide is full, the moon lies fair
    Upon the straits;-on the French coast the light
    Gleams and is gone; the cliffs of England stand
    Glimmering and vast, out in the tranquil bay.

    Come to the window, sweet is the night-air!
    Only, from the long line of spray
    Where the sea meets the moon-blanch'd land,
    Listen! you hear the grating roar
    Of pebbles which the waves draw back, and fling,
    At their return, up the high strand,
    Begin, and cease, and then again begin,
    With tremulous cadence slow, and bring
    The eternal note of sadness in.

    Sophocles long ago
    Heard it on the Aegean, and it brought
    Into his mind the turbid ebb and flow,
    Of human misery; we
    Find also in the sound a thought,
    Hearing it by this distant northern sea.

    The Sea of Faith
    Was once, too, at the full, and round earth's shore
    Lay like the folds of a bright girdle furl'd.
    But now I only hear
    Its melancholy, long, withdrawing roar,
    Retreating, to the breath
    Of the night-wind, down the vast edges drear
    And naked shingles of the world.

    Ah, love, let us be true
    To one another! for the world, which seems
    To lie before us like a land of dreams,
    So various, so beautiful, so new,
    Hath really neither joy, nor love, nor light,
    Nor certitude, nor peace, nor help for pain;
    And we are hear as on a darkling plain
    Swept with confused alarms of struggle and flight,
    Where ignorant armies clash by night.