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Conference lgp30::christian-perspective

Title:Discussions from a Christian Perspective
Notice:Prostitutes and tax collectors welcome!
Moderator:CSC32::J_CHRISTIE
Created:Mon Sep 17 1990
Last Modified:Fri Jun 06 1997
Last Successful Update:Fri Jun 06 1997
Number of topics:1362
Total number of notes:61362

267.0. "Must worship be solemn?" by CVG::THOMPSON (Semper Gumby) Thu Jun 27 1991 12:45

    I comment about people laughing in church made me think of this
    topic. Must worship be solemn? 

    As a teenager (and younger) I often acted as acolyte. This meant
    lighting and unlighting the candles but not much else. Except it meant
    that I sat in the alter/pulpit area during the service. Do to a fluke
    in the acoustics sometimes I could hear things being said just outside
    the back of the sanctuary. One day two little girls were out there and
    I heard one of them tell the other in a firm voice "Stop laughing! It's
    Sunday!"

    To me there are parts of the service that are serious and solemn.
    Others though are times of rejoicing and smiles are not only not out
    of place but should be encouraged. Communion is a little of both.
    We approach communion solemn, contemplating our sins and Jesus'
    sacrifice for them. We leave the table joyful in the knowledge that
    our sins are forgiven and we have joined with our Lord. Perhaps
    people may look at us weird if we leave the table with a grin on our
    face but inside I always feel very happy and fulfilled at that time.

    An other joyful time, for me, is baptism (or dedication as it is
    performed in some churches). At this time we as a congregation are
    welcoming a new person to our extended family. Who can help but be
    joyful about this? Yes, it is a time of commitment when both the
    parents and congregation commit themselves to the Christian training
    of the child. But who can help but smile as a crying baby is given to
    the minister and then stops crying as a complete stranger picks them
    up and puts water on their head. I have heard of it happening the
    other way but never seen it BTW. But then I usually have seen my
    father perform such services and he hold babies *very* well. :-)

    Christmas and Easter are again very joyful happy times for me. A
    rousing "He is Risen!" followed by the response "He is risen indeed!"
    is anything but solemn. It makes me smile even to think of it.

    And laughter during a sermon may also be a good thing. Stories that
    are funny are often very useful. Why should we not laugh? In fact if we
    don't perhaps the preacher will think we don't get it.

    I believe that Jesus was a serious person but I believe He believed in
    humor. Many times in my life things have worked out in some very
    unexpected or ironic ways. At those times I sometimes think they are
    proof that God does have a sense of humor. Also how could he put up
    with humans if He didn't?

    			Alfred

T.RTitleUserPersonal
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267.1CARTUN::BERGGRENHooked on curiousityThu Jun 27 1991 13:2112
    I agree Alfred, God does have a wonderful sense of humor. :-)  Like
    you, there are many times worship for me is joyful and other times I
    would say it is more contemplative than solemn.
    
    I also dance and sing and drum as part of my own personal way to
    worship and pray.  It is inspiring and very fulfilling for me to
    worship creatively and playfully, as well as the more quiet times 
    of peaceful contemplation.  I also spend time in prayer and worship 
    whenever I am out in nature.  These times tend to be a mixture of both
    joy, and quiet contemplation.  
    
    Karen
267.2Who You Are, Is How You PrayPCCAD1::RICHARDJBluegrass,Music Aged To PerfectionThu Jun 27 1991 17:2318
    I recommend reading a book called, "Who We Are Is How We Pray." If I
    remember, after I come back from the next two weeks vacation, I'll
    give you the authors name. The author uses first has you evaluate the
    personality type of person you are, using the Myers Briggs method. Once
    you find your personality type, he then guides you to different methods
    of prayer that generally fit your personality type. 

    I'm a extroverted, influential type personality, which would lead you to
    thing that people with personality type would be drawn towards
    Charismatic or active type prayer. Well, the opposite is true. We're
    led to quit prayer such as meditation, which I've always done long before
    I ever read this book. On the other hand, people who are introverted 
    submissive types are often drawn towards Charismatic, Pentecostal styles 
    of prayer. 
 

    Peace
    Jim
267.3JURAN::SILVAMore than wordsThu Jun 27 1991 18:1833

| We approach communion solemn, contemplating our sins and Jesus'
| sacrifice for them. We leave the table joyful in the knowledge that
| our sins are forgiven and we have joined with our Lord. Perhaps
| people may look at us weird if we leave the table with a grin on our
| face but inside I always feel very happy and fulfilled at that time.

	I used to hand out the Host. I had done this so many times without
really thinking too much about the many ways people take the Host. But one time
this person came up to get the Host, and the way she darted her tongue in and
out made me think even Speedy Gonzalas couldn't have moved so fast. I was
surprised that she was able to hold onto the Host! I watched each and every
person after that with a grin on my face.

| And laughter during a sermon may also be a good thing. Stories that
| are funny are often very useful. Why should we not laugh? In fact if we
| don't perhaps the preacher will think we don't get it.

	The former priest at St. Joseph's in Berlin was like that. Father Bob
would not only make people laugh (he did that a lot at my sisters wedding) but
he would pull things in that are happening from today, such as events, songs,
everything to help get his point across in a manner that he held everyone's
attention. It was really unique to see.

| but I believe He believed in humor. 
| Also how could he put up with humans if He didn't?

	:-) Well put Alfred.



Glen
267.4It's a celebration!BSS::VANFLEETRing around the moon...Thu Jun 27 1991 20:1610
Personally, I have trouble thinking of God without a sense of humor.  Just 
look at how entertaining life is!  :-)  In dancing and singing and painting 
and writing and laughing and skipping we shine forth the gift of joy that
only the great Creator could give!

I think the best way to glorify God is to celebrate the divine gift of 
creativity with humor and light!  After all, what would en*light*enment be
without the light?  Enenment!  :-)

Nanci
267.5CSC32::J_CHRISTIEEl Gallo de PazFri Jun 28 1991 20:4415
	In Romans 12.1, Paul intimates that true worship is not confined
to forms of worship associated with an assembly of believers.

	To address the question asked though, I believe worship need not
be solemn.  Personally, I have come to appreciate the solemnity of the
"high church" order of worship.  This appreciation is largely the result
of a pastor I once had who took the time to educate his flock about the
significance of the liturgical colors, the Christian calender, and other
various Christian symbols.

	After all, what good are symbols if they have lost their symbolism?
They're like salt that has lost its saltiness.

Peace,
Richard
267.6CSC32::J_CHRISTIEEl Gallo de PazFri Jul 05 1991 23:105
    The title of one of Tony Campolo's books is _The Kingdom of God Is a
    Party_.  Haven't read the book, but I do like the title.
    
    Peace,
    Richard
267.7JURAN::VALENZABeing and notingness.Thu Jul 30 1992 20:1184
From:	CRL::"QUAKER-L%UIUCVMD.BITNET@pucc.Princeton.EDU" "Quaker Concerns, peace issues, consensus process, spirituality" 30-JUL-1992 16:05:07.39
To:	Multiple recipients of list QUAKER-L <QUAKER-L%UIUCVMD.BITNET@pucc.Princeton.EDU>
CC:	
Subj:	An Uncommon Worship Experience

On Therapeutic Touch, I'm not sure what in particular is real and what
isn't.  I have enough trouble trying to describe God to a child.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------------------------

The following is reprinted from The New England Friend.  Deana Chase of
Westport Monthly Meeting, Massachusetts, is the author.  She was asked
to write on the most important spiritual experience of her life
thus far.
                  --Paul
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Not the most important but the most recent significant experience on my
spiritual journey happened last committee day at Wellesley.  I had just
arrived and was ready to enter worship when one of my favorite Young
Adult Friends handed me a rainbow-colored wig and asked if I would be
the person to wear this to worship.  It wasn't a dare, it was a come-
be-one-of-us invitation and I have to admit I felt honored to be
invited.  I put the wig on my head, went to get my "things" in the
kitchen, had a brief conversation that distracted me from what was on my
head as I entered worship late, by the side door.

While trying to figure out where to sit and how to get there, I was
reminded of my unusual headdress by a double take, smile, and a nod.  I
immediately thought to take it off.  Then came the realization that
simply wearing this into worship was hardly adhering to proper Quaker
attire.  Was I wearing it because I wanted approval from our younger
members?  Would taking it off be succumbing to peer pressure?  How would
I know what to do?  The answer came to me to worship.  The wig stayed on
as I tried to settle down.  I found I couldn't take the wig off but I
sure was having trouble focusing on anything but my head.

I tried my centering prayer.  I tried my breathing.  I tried to empty my
mind, but I couldn't.  I thought of some Friends who would suspect I had
truly lost my marbles.  Worse, some may think I was mocking our worship.
My mind raced; once again I tried to breathe myself into worship.
After a few moments of discomfort I was led to look at this situation as
an opportunity.  I realized finding my center with this thing on my head
was going to be a lesson in discipline.

First, I tried to let my mind free.  Thoughts crowded in one after
another.  Was this the flip-side of how Marian Baker feels with her
Quaker bonnet in the secular world?  Center down, breathe in.  Quakers
are often depicted as very serious people; am I in need of a better
sense of humor?

Breathe out.  Is this what it's like to be a person of color, having
people focus on your outward appearance?  Perhaps.  Silence.  How
absurd!  I'm sitting here thinking of persons of color with a rainbow
wig on my head.  Breathe in, center down, breathe out.  Can I take it
off now?

My answer came: not yet.  Breathe in.  It isn't only their wings that
help angels fly -- it's because they manage to keep it Light.  Breathe
out, center down, sense the calm, go deeper.  I feel like a fool, what
will Friends think of me?  Shoulders down, breathe.  What difference
does it make what they think.  Besides, it's only a differently-colored
head covering, no worse than a flashy sweater or scarf.  Come on, do you
really believe that?  Individual faces come into my head.  If I took it
off now, would I feel differently?  Would I be able to center down?
Breathe.  This is worship.  Breathe.  This is worship.  Can you worship?
Breathe in, breathe out, open wider, go deeper.  Yes, I can.

Yes, I could.  And I did.  And I am thankful to that YAF who made this
worship one of my most considered and memorable to date.  I hope,
however, this is one of those opportunities I will not need repeat.

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% Subject:      An Uncommon Worship Experience
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