Conference lgp30::christian-perspective

    The Episcopal Church includes the Apocrypha in their Bible.
    
    DR

re: Note 258.1 by DR "Hello, I'm the Dr!" 

>    The Episcopal Church includes the Apocrypha in their Bible.
    
With the understanding that while interesting and informative, it is not 
necessary for salvation.

(As a lector and lay reader, it's amusing in a way when one of the lectionary 
readings includes a passage from Wisdom, or Ecclesiasticus or another 
Apocryphal reading.  Some people sort of go "huh?  I don't remember that book 
being there!"  Then again, some people hardly notice WHAT is being read...)

BTW, I've often seen the term "apocryphal" used in derogatory and demeaning 
ways, so for what it's worth, here's the quickie _American Heritage_ 
definition, so we might know with a little more uniformaty what we're talking 
about...perhaps we can expand and elucidate on this...

Apocrypha: the 14 books of the Septuagint considered uncanonical by 
Protestants because they are not part of the Hebrew Scriptures.  Eleven of 
these books are accepted in the Roman Catholic canon.

apocrypha: writings of questionable authorship or authenticity

Hmmm, is the letter to the Hebrews apocryphal?  Some believe that Paul wrote
it, some say that its authorship is questionable... 

Peace,

Jim

re Note 253.25 by LEDDEV::CAMUSO:

>     The "Book of Wisdom" is among the books given the name "Apocrypha" 
>     for good reason, said reasons also part of the explanation for its 
>     exclusion from the Authorized Version of the Bible.  They contain 
>     doctrine and references to ritual and ceremonial practices whose 
>     origin was deemed questionable by Reformation scholars.  Some are
>     self-contradictory or contradict other books.  To be included in the
>     New Testament, a book had to meet all of the following criteria. 
>     
>     	1. Written by or upon the authority of an Apostle.
>     
>     	2. Used by all the churches existing around 400 AD or accepted 
>     	   as inspired by all those churches.
>     
>     	3. Can be shown to assist and edify spiritual growth.
>     
>     	4. The Holy Spirit gave testimony, through the churches, of the 
>     	   book's (or books') authority.
  
        NONE of the books called "Apocrypha" but accepted by the RC
        Church (and, apparently, by the Episcopal Church and others)
        are placed with or regarded as "New Testament" books.  They
        all date at least a century or two before Christ.

        NO books were removed from the New Testament by the
        "Reformation scholars."  (However, Martin Luther wanted to
        remove James -- what a treasure would have been lost to the
        vanity of human-judged consistency!)

        Therefore the above criteria are irrelevant to this issue: 
        the entire Old Testament fails the above test #1!

        (One might also question a claim that the Reformation
        scholars had the authority to make such judgments,
        especially when that authority was used essentially to prove
        that others' claim to such authority is false!)

        Bob

The New Revised Standard Bible in its "complete" edition contains all of
the Deuterocanonical/Apocryphal books for all parts of the Church.  With
the help of the table of contents and notes in this edition of the bible
and other bibles I am able to present a complete table below.

Presumably there is a Roman Catholic NRSV edition which places the books in
section (a) below in their traditional places; there was such an edition of
the old Revised Standard Version.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The Deuterocanonical and Apocryphal books can be divided into five groups:

(a) Books and Additions to Esther and Daniel that are in the Roman Catholic,
    Greek, Slavonic, and King James Bibles and listed in the Anglican Articles
    of Religion as books to be used for instruction in life and manners.

Tobit ( = Tobias in the Articles)

Judith

The Additions to the Book of Esther (in the edition of the NRSV I have, they
	are published with a translation of the complete Greek text of Esther)

Wisdom of Solomon

Ecclesiasticus, or the Wisdom of Jesus Son of Sirach

Baruch

The Letter of Jeremiah (= Baruch ch. 6)

The Prayer of Azariah and the Song of the Three Jews
	( = The Song of the Three Holy Children in the KJV)
	(inserted between Daniel 3:23 and 3:24)

Susanna (Chapter 13 of the Greek Version of Daniel)

Bel and the Dragon (Chapter 14 of the Greek Version of Daniel)

1 Maccabees

2 Maccabees

(b1) Books in the Greek and Slavonic Bibles also in the KJV and the Anglican
     Articles of Religion; not in the Roman Catholic Canon

1 Esdras (= 2 Esdras in Slavonic = 3 Esdras in Appendix to Vulgate and the
	  Articles, 1 Esdras in the KJV)

Prayer of Manasseh (in Appendix to Vulgate = Prayer of Manasses in KJV and
			Articles)

(b2) Books only in the Greek and Slavonic Bibles

Psalm 151, following Psalm 150 in the Greek Bible

3 Maccabees

(c) In the Slavonic Bible and in the Latin Vulgate Appendix as well as the
    KJV and Anglican Articles of Religion

2 Esdras (= 3 Esdras in Slavonic = 4 Esdras in Vulgate Appendix and the
	  Articles, 2 Esdras in the KJV)

(d) In an Appendix to the Greek Bible

4 Maccabees

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Note that Ezra and Nehemiah (books in the original canon) are called 1 and 2
Esdras in the Vulgate and the Anglican Articles of Religion, giving rise to
the variations in numbering the two Apocryphal Esdras.

The Additions to Esther are interesting.  In the Vulgate, they appear at the
end of the parts of Esther known to exist in both Greek and Hebrew, although
they are interspersed in sections now called "A" -- "F" throughout the Greek.

The KJV maintained the same order and chapter and verse numbering, but modern
bibles such as the New English Bible, the New American Bible, and the New
Revised Standard Bible present the fragments in their correct positions.

/john

	BTW, I have received these books in soft copy (Thanks John Covert)
	and will be making them available in BOOKREADER format soon. I may
	also make them available in other formats as time permits. Please
	pray for God's help with a couple of bugs in the work Digital pays
	me to do so I can use my evenings for this instead. 

			Alfred