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Conference lgp30::christian-perspective

Title:Discussions from a Christian Perspective
Notice:Prostitutes and tax collectors welcome!
Moderator:CSC32::J_CHRISTIE
Created:Mon Sep 17 1990
Last Modified:Fri Jun 06 1997
Last Successful Update:Fri Jun 06 1997
Number of topics:1362
Total number of notes:61362

241.0. "Christian Moral Philosophy ?" by SA1794::SEABURYM (Zen: It's Not What You Think) Fri May 24 1991 14:22

  
     Many of the replies in this conference of late have dealt with
   morality as it is perceived, practiced or applies to Christians.
   As someone who reads a fair amount of philosophy, much of which
   examines morality and what might be called the moral life I have
   seen that there is a curious mix where Christianity and moral
   philosophy overlap and are at odds with each other.
      This would imply that there is something that might be called
   Christian moral philosophy ( a phrase that would no doubt cause
   Nietzsche roll over in his grave) 
       So, what is Christian moral philosophy ? What are it's tenets
   principles and applications ? Who are the Christian moral philosophers
   and what have been their contributions to this field ?

                                                                 

                                                         Mike
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241.1Christian Moral philosophyCSCOA1::TACCATI_NFri May 24 1991 16:5511
    Mike,
    
    Christian Moral Philosophy is best described by Jesus Himself;
    
    "A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another, as I
     have loved you, that you love one another."
    
    Also, to love God with all your heart, mind, spirit and body and
    to love your neighbor as yourself. (paraphrased)
    
    Norman
241.2SA1794::SEABURYMZen: It's Not What You ThinkFri May 24 1991 17:2011
    Re.1

    Norman:

            Yes, but why is loving others moral ? What makes
          loving God moral ? 
            What is the philosophical reasoning behind these moral
          imperatives you have quoted ? 


                                                               Mike
241.3What is the definition of Moral?SWAM1::DOTHARD_STPLAYTOEFri May 24 1991 19:0842
    Re: Christian Moral Philosophy
    
    Only after I received the name Playtoe, did I begin to look into the
    ideas of Plato, and subsequently others.  I felt that since my name
    sounds like his, I must study up on him.  And I found a great deal of
    correspondence with his philosophy and the Christian religion.  
    
    Also, in the Nag Hammadi Library is included writings by
    Neo-platonists, they apparent constituted a "sect" of Gnosticism.  So
    this too implies a "Christian Moral Philosophy".
    
    I believe "Morals" is defined, concisely, as "right action, conduct, or
    behavior," in contrast to "Ethics", which is "right thinking", to which
    I would include "right emotions and feelings"; by this I mean when one
    elicits the proper emotional or feeling response to a
    situation/stimulus.  It would depend upon how you classify emotions and
    feelings as Morals or Ethics...I consider emotions (debatably) ethics,
    but feelings substantially ethics.  (e.g. Someone insults me, I FEEL
    bad, then get angry (emotional), then I slap em (immorality), thus
    feelings cause emotions cause behavior/action/conduct.
    
    Anyway, Plato said, When you determine the Summom Bonum (life's
    greatest good), right action/conduct/behavior is easy to determine. 
    This is ultimately true.  However, I perceive a difference in
    Philosophy and Religious Philosophy.  We can philosophize in general,
    then we can philosophize in the religious context.  Plate philosophized
    in general.  So the above statement has pragmatic implications.  It
    suggests that whatever one determines as Summon Bonum, the concomitant
    "right action, conduct or behavior" becomes right...but in the
    religious context such action, even the decided "Greatest Good" may
    itself be wrong or contrary to the "Will of God."  So I perceive a general philosophy and a
    religious philosophy.  (e.g. A person make decide that Life's Greatest
    Good is to acquire great material wealth (thus be Materialistic), and
    as a concomitant action/conduct/behavior be greedy, conniving and
    deceitful in order to gain that wealth, and think themselves right
    based upon their conception of Summon Bonum, and pragmatically they
    would be right...but this conception of Summom Bonum and its resulting
    action is evil in the context of religious philosophy, as "spiritual
    wealth" would the appropriate Summom Bonum in regards to God and
    religion.
    
    Playtoe
241.4Love is moralCSCOA1::TACCATI_NFri May 24 1991 19:2119
    RE: .2
    
    Mike,
    
    The reason that loving others is moral is because we as human beings
    function at our best when we can experience genuine love from others
    and offer genuine love in return.  Love affects ALL the parts of our being.
    I believe that the human being was created in love by God and all humans 
    are an extension of His love.  When love occurs, only then can the human 
    being experience its fullest potential.  Alas, man's own spirit has
    intefered with being able to fully experience God's love and therefore
    has much difficulty loving others.  The divine person of Jesus Christ
    came to remedy the problems with this human nature. 
    
    What would the world and human condition be like without love at its best? 
    Just read the newspapers and watch the evening news.  Yes love is proper, 
    and moral.
    
    Norman
241.5CSC32::J_CHRISTIEProud Sponsor FAWoLTue May 28 1991 00:5245
Note 241.2
    
Mike,

	You've posed some difficult questions.  Thank you!

	As you're already aware, I cannot speak for all Christians.
But, let me share what I can with you.

	Allow me to also say that I'm somewhat limited by the constraints
of time and my ability to articulate what's in my heart.  In light of the
foregoing, I submit the following feeble attempt:

>          What is the philosophical reasoning behind these moral
>        imperatives you have quoted ? 

	My moral philosophy is grounded in the sacredness of life; in the
holiness of all of God's creation; in the incalcuable intrinsic value of
every human person.  Moral decisions for me have become an outgrowth of
deep reverence, respect, appreciation and honor for both the Creator and
the creation; something like a prayer or an act of worship.

>          Yes, but why is loving others moral ?

	The teachings of Jesus requires us to love and to demonstrate
loving behavior even when when we do not feel loving.  Love is more than
simply an emotion.  In fact, an emotional element need not even be present
in order to act out love or to express love.  Jesus requires his followers
to extend this revolutionary love to the outermost limits.  We're to love
our enemies and pray on behalf of those who make our lives miserable.

	To me, both the overall message of the Bible and of God's Spirit
are clear in setting forth imperitives of love, service and justice.

>          What makes loving God moral ? 

	I'm not sure whether loving God is really a moral action or not.
However, if you love the Other it's natural that you'll want to please the
Other.  And to my way of thinking, this relationship becomes the foundation
of our relationships with others.

	Well, Mike, my guess is that you now have more questions than ever.

Peace,
Richard
241.6SA1794::SEABURYMZen: It's Not What You ThinkWed May 29 1991 11:3635
 Playtoe:

          You asked a good question as the title of your reply.
     Interestingly enough, I just read something which reversed the
     the differences you gave between moral and ethical and defined
     moral as "right thinking" and ethical as "right action". My
     dictionary defines morals as pertaining to ethics and ethics
     as pertaining to morality. To be honest with you I find the 
     whole semantic tangle to be pretty humorous.
          At the risk of creating an even more tangled situation
     let continue on a bit with what morals are. I think any moral
     view represents an ideal and an ideal is how we would wish things
     to be. 
          This of course differs from the Platonic idea of the greatest
     good being moral. One can reduce this idea to basic needs of food
     shelter and sex. Indeed Plato has been criticized for espousing a
     philosophy that makes the greatest good the lowest common denominator.
          If morality is an ideal, then this makes morality a very subjective
     thing. Many Christians seem to have no problem this because of a belief
     that the ideal represented by Christian morality is God's ideal.  
     This should bring up the question are God's moral values necessarily
     any more valid than your's or mine. Unfortunately this is the very 
     question many Christians will not ask and often insist must not be asked.
          I frequently hear the opinion expressed that there needs to be an
     absolute standard of morality against which actions are to be measured
     and that this standard is defined by God's moral standards. However,
     I for one, find God's moral standards rather inconsistent and often
     contradictory as they set down in the Bible. So, either the Bible is
     not the inerrant guide to moral behavior that some claim it to be, or
     there are alternative ways of determining moral standards. 


                                                                  Mike