Conference lgp30::christian-perspective

	We live under the influence of two religions.  We have our Christian
faith, and we have a secular theology, often disguising itself as conventional
wisdom or perhaps as a shared ideology.

	In our civil religion we're told that peace, justice and liberty come
more from defense than divinity.  We speak of the rat race and the arms
race.  At the same time, there's no equivalent for such concepts as the
"peace race", the "food race", and the "health race".  We have been
seduced more by the love of power than transformed by the power of love.
We have come to accept more the right of force than the force of right.

Peace,
Richard

    While I agree that there is a "civil religion" in the US we disagree,
    I think, on it's nature and creed. What you describe sounds more 
    like politics which is influenced by all religions but which is itself
    not quite a religion. Politics is ice in the water. Made up of the
    water it's in and where parts are melting other parts are freezing.
    (Don't take that analogy any farther please.)

    I believe that the civil religion is based on Law (upper case L is
    intentional.) There are some beliefs based on right being defined 
    by the Law and that right not defined by Law either requires a change
    in the Law or is not right. Abortion is right because it is legal.
    Where abortion is not legal the law should be changed. The
    contradiction which is to me obvious is missed by the civil
    religionist. The Law should say it's legal; heretics polluted the Law.
    Now don't get hung up on abortion here. There are other examples.

    Alcohol and prohibition are a prime example. Adultery laws an other.
    Civil rights laws still an other. Note that this is not meant to
    indicate laws that I personally approve of or disapprove of. Rather
    to indicate areas where the civil religion either achieves or doesn't
    achieve it's goals by creating or supporting Law.

    The civil religion does not in general support violence. There are
    exceptions. There does not appear to be consensus on what and when
    these exceptions are. I don't believe the civil religion supported
    US involvement in Panama or Granada. Certainly it did not support
    Viet Nam. Rather the civil religion generally preaches that peace
    or the absence of conflict is preferable to liberty or religion. Justice
    is defined narrowly based on Law and "proper" interpretation of that
    Law.

    			Alfred

    Succinctly, civil religion is the religion of "The American way of life."
    The term "civil religion" originated with Rousseau in his compilation
    "The Social Context."

    Civil religion in the U.S. has its own holidays (Independence Day,
    Columbus Day, Patriots Day, Presidents Day, Memorial Day, Veterans Day,
    Labor Day, even Martin Luther King Day and others), its own sacred
    shrines (the Lincoln Memorial, Mt Rushmore, the Washington Monument,
    Arlington National Cemetery, Bunker Hill, Pearl Harbor and more) and
    its own sacred symbols (the flag, the Statue of Liberty) and scriptures
    (the Declaration on Independence, the Constitution, the Bill of Rights).

    Though none mention Christ, every U.S. President has made some
    reference to God during public speeches.  These references contribute
    to what sociologists calls the "ceremonial significance" of civil events.
    In public speeches and when included in certain documents, suggestion
    of Divine involvement supports both the solemnity of the occasion and
    the exaltation of the principles and ideals set forth.

    A parallel might be drawn between Washington and Moses, Lincoln and
    Christ, and the United States and the Promised Land, sometimes called
    the American Israel.

    Richard

    Re .4
    
    Yeah!  That's what I've been talking about.  Pervasive, is it not?
    
    Richard

    Remember II Peter 2:10  Those that despise government are walking in
    the flesh.  And in II Peter 2  it is just as bad as other sins.
    
    
    In the New Testament we are to honor those in authority over us.
    
    
    Why speak so hard against Presidents that call on God but do not
    use Jesus' name.  At lest most of those Presidents believed that
    Jesus is God.  Therefore, when they call on God they were calling
    on Jesus.
    
    
    If you believe flags are wrong, then I hope you do not have any
    photos or paintings in your home or church or place of work.
    Those are images of things on earth and in the heavens.  Gen. 20.
    
    
                                   Marshall

      There is no government that God did not put into power.  I will give
    the verses later I do not have time now to look them up.  By the way
    if you do not like freedom of religion then I assume you would not
    mind having a government that would not allow you to worship freely.
    Which religion would you have run this country? Yours! 
    
    
                                   Marshall
    

I went shopping today.  Needed some shirts.  I was amazed by the number
of articles for sale bearing stars and stripes, yellow ribbons, fierce
looking eagles and stirring, patriotic slogans.

There were teeshirts, sweatshirts, keychains, pins and buttons, jewelry,
coffee mugs, dolls, greeting cards, crepe streamers, candles, gift wrap,
mylar balloons and knickknacks.

The Persian Gulf War was almost too short to really capitalize on the
emblems and icons of that subtle, but powerful form of religion: Nationalism.

Peace,
Richard

When I was shopping yesterday I passed by a T-shirt store, and I was amused to
see displayed side by side a T-shirt for peace (peace symbols superimposed over
the flags of several countries) and a T-shirt celebrating the U.S. victory in
the Gulf war.

Peace or war, your choice -- they'll sell you the T-shirt!

				-- Bob

"Man is the only patriot.  He sets himself apart in his own country, under
his own flag, and sneers at other nations, and keeps multitudinous uniformed
assassins on hand at heavy expense to grab slices of other people's countries,
and keep them from grabbing slices of his.  And in the intervals between
campaigns, he washes the blood off his hands and works for 'the universal
brotherhood of man' - - with his mouth."

					- Mark Twain

    6.285
    
    Jim,
    
    	This may be this note you sought.
    
    	As I recall, there is one verse the _Star Spangled Banner_ that
    contains no martial images or allusions.
    
    Peace,
    Richard
    
    PS You know where the melody came from, don't you? 8-}

Thanks, Richard,

This is indeed the note I sought, thanks.  I'm trying to find the other 
verses.  According to the 1982 Episcopal hymnal (where I found the first 2
verses) I believe the setting is "National Anthem" by that chap Anonymous. 
If you know more about it, please let me know, thanks! 

Peace,

Jim

p.s.

How 'bout those green M&Ms?  (Did you know that M&M stands for "Military and 
Marine"?  A martial little candy... .-})

    Re: .12
    
    Myth has it that the melody for the National Anthem, _The Star Spangled
    Banner_, was originally a British tavern (beer-drinking) song.
    
    Anyone more "in-the-know" about this than I?
    
    Peace,
    Richard

    RE: .13 It is no myth. Although the melody has been used for a
    number of other types of songs over the years it was well known
    as a drinking song.
    
    For myself I've never understood taking on that hard to sing
    song over "America" which practically brings tears to my eyes
    each time I hear it.
    
    		Alfred

    The drinking song's title is something like "to ancerion in heaven"
    
    BJ

    
    the tune was written by John Stafford Smith to the words by
    Ralph Tomlinson..
    
    it was the official song of a song and musical organization
    known as the Anacreontic Society...
    
    ...Anacreon was a Greek lyric poet who has enjoyed numerous
    revivals of his style and subject matter thru the more than
    20 centuries since his death.
    
    peter

    Anyone have any idea where the Pledge of Allegiance came from?
    
    Richard

    richard,
    
    the pledge first appeared in "Youth's Companion", a magazine, in 1892...
    
    the authorship is now attributed to Francis Bellamy although
    James Upham is also mentioned.
    
    peter

    Re. Last Couple


        Bellamy was the pastor at the First Baptist Church in Chicopee
      Mass. and was also the author of "Looking Back" a novel about
      a Utopian society of the future. 
        I live about a 5 min. walk away from the Bellamy house which is
      now a museum.
        Bellamy was a major figure in the US 18th century Socialist
      Utopian movement. 

                                                               Mike

     P.S.: The "One Nation under God" line was added in the 1950's
           

    different Bellamy, Mike...
    
    the novelist from Chicopee was Edward...
    
    this chap is Francis
    
    

    I, too, heard that the Pledge of Allegiance first appeared in a
    magazine; in an advertisement composed by a manufacturer of flags.
    Dwight Eisenhower added "under God" later on.
    
    Peace,
    Richard

	"The most disturbing analogy between the Gulf War and Nazi Germany
isn't, as President Bush and others suggest, between Saddam Hussein and
Hitler.  It is the striking parallel between the blind patriotism of the
German people and the idolatrous patriotism that swept through our country
and our churches.  Signs of idolatry were evident throughout the war,
from "Desert Shield" to "Desert Storm" to "Desert Prayer."  President Bush
was accompanied by Reverend Billy Graham on the eve of his decision to
launch offensive military action in the Gulf; yellow ribbons filled local
churches; and General Schwarzkopf expressed a common view that the
outcome of the war was a sign of God's intent for and blessing of U.S.
policies.  Perhaps most disturbing was President Bush's manipulation
and invocation of God throughout the was and the churches' genuine failure
to challenge his assertion that the war in the Gulf was a 'just war.'
In his speech before the Annual Convention of National Religious Broadcasters
on January 28, 1991, Bush said:

	Let me begin by congratulating you on your theme of declaring His
  glory to all nations....While God can live without man, man cannot live
  without God.  His love and His justice inspire in us a yearning for faith
  and a compassion for the weak and oppressed, as well as the courage and
  conviction to oppose tyranny and injustice....Abroad, as in America, our
  task is to serve and seek wisely through the policies we pursue.  Nowhere
  is this more true than in the Persian Gulf....The war in the Gulf is not
  a Christian war, a Jewish war, or a Moslem war; it is a just war.  And it
  is a war with which good will prevail.  We're told that the principles
  of a just war originated with classical Greek and Roman philosophers....
  And later they were expounded by such Christian theologians as Ambrose,
  Augustine, Thomas Aquinas.  The first principle of a just war is that it
  supports a just cause.  Our cause could not be more noble...But a just
  war must also be declared by a legitimate authority.  Operation Desert
  Storm is supported by an unprecedented United Nations solidarity....
  A just war must be a last resort.  As I have often said, we did not want
  war.  But you all know the verse from Ecclesiastes -- there is 'a time
  for peace, a time for war.'...From the very first day of the war, the
  allies have waged war against Saddam's military.  We are doing everything
  possible, believe me, to avoid hurting the innocent.  Saddam's response:
  wanton, barbaric bombing of civilian areas.  We pray that Saddam will see
  reason....We will prevail because of the support of the American people,
  armed with a trust in God and in the principles that make men free --
  people like each of you in this room.  I salute Voice of Hope's live radio
  programming for U.S. and allied troops in the Gulf, and your Operation
  Desert Prayer and worship services for our troops led by, among others,
  the man who over a week ago led a wonderful prayer service at Fort Myer
  over here across the river in Virginia, the Reverend Billy Graham.  America
  has always been a religious nation, perhaps never more so than now....But
  with the support and prayers of so many, there can be no question in the
  minds of our soldiers or in the minds of our enemy about what Americans
  think.  We know that this is a just war.  And we know that, God willing,
  this is a war we will win....I believe more than ever that one cannot be
  America's president without trust in God.  I cannot imagine a world, a
  life, without the presence of the One through whom all things are possible...
  Thank you for this occasion.  And may God bless our great country.  And
  Please remember all of our coalition's armed forces in your prayers.  Thank
  you, and God Bless you.

	A central feature of the new world order is that U.S. political leaders
are actively seeking and claiming religious legitimacy for an aggressive U.S.
military role in the post-Cold War period."

				- Jack Nelson-Pallmeyer
				"Brave New World Order"

    RE: .-1 Of course anyone who desired to be fair would have also
    mentioned that the use of religion to gain support for the Gulf
    war in the US was orders of magnitude less then what Saddam did
    in his country. If what happened in the US can be compared to
    Nazi Germany then certainly Iraq compares even closer.

    		Alfred

    Re: .23
    
    Indeed, the tactic is commonly employed by all sides during times of war,
    as the "War Prayer" by Mark Twain so lucidly demonstrates.
    
    Richard

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Subject: Pledge of Allegiance author feted in hometown
 
	ROME, N.Y. (UPI) -- The upstate New York city of Rome Tuesday
celebrated the 100th anniversary of the publishing of a 23-word poem
that may be nation's most widely known verse.
	It was Sept. 8, 1892, when Francis Bellamy, a Baptist minister who
grew up in Rome, published the original Pledge of Allegiance in Youth's
Companion magazine.
	By 1892, Bellamy had left Rome to preach in Baptist pulpits in
Boston, but local residents who tend his monument and fly a flag over
his grave 24 hours a $ay count the author as one of their own.
	``Rome had to have an influence,'' said Jon Austin, executive
director of the Rome Historical Society. ``He was educated here; he grew
up here.''
	Bellamy wrote the pledge to boost patriotism in children in
anticipation of the upcoming 400th anniversary of the voyage of Columbus
-- and in anticipation of thousands of people from other lands becoming
Americans, Austin said.
	``He hoped to instill patriotism in not only native-born American
youth, but in the great influx of immigrant youth and adults,'' Austin
said.
	The pledge has been changed twice. The original read: ``I pledge
allegiance to my Flag and to the Republic for which it stands -- one
Nation indivisible -- with liberty and justice for all.''
	In 1924, the wording was changed by a federal conference from ``to my
flag'' to ``to the flag of the United States of America'' -- ``so there
could be no question that (immigrants) were pledging allegiance to the
United States' flag and not to their native flags,'' Austin said.
	In 1954, the words ``under God'' were added after ``one nation'' by
Congress.
	After a drive led by Matilda Cuomo, wife of New York Gov. Mario
Cuomo, and U.S. Rep. Sherwood Boehlert of nearby Utica, the Postal
Service issued a stamp commemorating the pledge.
	The stamp, which shows an unfurling flag and the words, ``I pledge
allegiance,'' was unveiled during Tuesday's ceremonies.

Having been in a courtroom recently, I was reminded of the deliberate
extractions courtrooms have taken to model the authority of the church.

It's no accident that the judge's bench resembles an altar.

It's no accident that the judge wears robes similar in appearance to clergy.

The (communion) railing, the bride's (defendant's) side and the groom's
(claimant's) side, none of these are accidents.

Richard

 Wonder if the ACLU knows about this?

    RE: .26 What makes you think these similarities are not accidents?
    
    			Alfred

>It's no accident that the judge's bench resembles an altar.

The judge's bench no more resembles an altar than my desk does.
Or the check-out counter at the local Store 24.

/john

    Whatever.  If you can't see it, you can't see it.
    
    Richard