Conference lgp30::christian-perspective

I highly recommend the book Joshua (I think the author's name is 
Girzone sp?).  It is a well written (and researched based on the parables of 
the bible) story of what would happen if Jesus returned today - would anyone 
recognize him.  A friend bought it for me for Christmas as she knew I 
wanted to read it.  After reading it, I asked if she would like to 
read it.  She did and this is her touching review (let me preface this 
by saying she is one of the most devout Catholics I've ever met who 
truly lives her religious beliefs; her husband is of the Jewish faith):

<<My husband and I read Joshua, and we both cried.  It's one of the most moving
and though-provoking books I've ever read (and it makes me embarrassed to be a
Catholic).  Do you know anything about the author?  His writing is soothing -
that's the only word I can think of.  I couldn't put it down - I was almost
mesmerized by his writing.  Thanks for lending it to me and for opening my
eyes to it.  I'm going to buy two copies - one for us and one for my 
parents.>>

Ro

    

    I have read three of Frank Peretti's books.
    
    _This Present Darkness_ and _Piercing the Darkness_ both moved me in a
    way few books have (I cried out loud and in public during one section
    of _Piercing the Darkness_). These books are about how humans and
    angelic beings (both good and evil) interact with each other. Be aware
    that he takes a pretty hard view (in my opinion) of the New Age
    Movement, the Occult, and the ACLU. I would be particularly interested
    in a New Ager's review of these books.
    
    He has also written a radio drama called "Tilly" for "Focus on the
    Family" and turned it into a book with the same title. I had the
    prvilege of directing this as a stage play at our church. It is about
    abortion and forgiveness and is also very moving.
    
    Has anyone read any of his other books (the Cooper Family Adventure
    Series)? Are they as good as those I've mentioned?
    
    
    - Barry W.

    RE last 2
    
      I have read Joshua and its sequel, Joshua and the Children.
    Suspending my disbelief that Jesus would come again (or seem to come
    again) in this manner was dificult for me and unfortunately spoiled the
    books for me. They are gently and lovingly written. I liked the writing
    style of the author as it was clear and uncluttered. If you can get
    past the shaky theological basis and treat this as just a nice story
    you will enjoy both books. Too bad, I couldn't.
    
      On the other hand, Frank Peretti's "angel" books blew my socks off!
    There is some odd theology here, too. (Angels depending on the prayers
    of the "remnant" for strength was my only trouble spot  but this added
    to the suspense of the stories. And it was easily forgiven in light of
    a wonderful presentation of the Gospel in both books.) These books
    start off with a bang and hold your interest throughout. My wife and I
    read them both together (taking turns every few chapters - sometimes it
    was very hard waiting to see what would happen next) Lots of thrills,
    suspense, the Gospel, epic battles, and the good guys never were more
    heroic and the bad guys never so nasty anywhere else. HIGHLY
    RECOMMENDED!!  (Time to dig'em out and read'em again. :-)
    
    Gil

Re: Note 17.3 GOLF::BERNIER (Gil Bernier)


>      On the other hand, Frank Peretti's "angel" books blew my socks off!
>    There is some odd theology here, too. 

I heard Frank Peretti on a radio call-in show a few months ago discussing his
works. He seemed to emphasize that he is *not* a theologian and that his works
are fiction (i.e., at best sepcualtive in nature). However, I have spoken to
people on both sides of the fence. Some took it as "gospel" in its explanations
of angelic workings and others discarded it out of hand as non-biblical
in nature. I prefer to judge it for what it is, an excellent piece of Christian
based fiction.

- Barry W.

    These are some of my favorites although some people might not consider
    them Christian, I think they reflect God's relationship and his
    interaction with humanity very well.
    
    1. Little House on the Prarie books. I think they especially reflect a
    loving relationship between husband, wife and children.
    
    2. Chronicles of Narnia
    
    3. The Peter Wimsy/Harriet Vane books by Dorothy Sayers.
      - Strong Poison
      - Have his Carcass 
      - Gaudy Night
      - Busman's Honeymoon 
      
      She wrote these before she became a Christian but you can certainly
      see God working in her life through her characters.
    
    4. C.S. Lewis's space trilogy,  I can't remember all the titles.
    
    5. The Hobbit and Lord of the Rings series by Tolkien
    
    I'm sure I'll think of more but these are some of my fav's.
    
    Beth

    Lewis' space trilogy:
    
      Out of the Silent Planet - nifty stuff here
      Perelandra - even more so
      That Hideous Strength - never can get past the first few chapters
                              which are boooooooorrrring. The only thing I
                              own by Lewis that hasn't absolutely wow-ed me.
    
    Gil

Katherine Kurtz is the author of the Deryni series of books.  There is a strong
parallel between the Church in her stories and the Catholic Church.  There is
magic described in the books which is an issue in the stories.  Are those who
practice magic saveable?  Are their powers from God or from Satan?  These are
some of the questions that form the basis for several threads and subplots in
the books.

I don't have a list of titles handy though.

Wook

    This is my first time in this notes file, but I had to tell you about a
    book I just read.  It was "Dear and Glorious Physician" by Taylor
    Caldwell.  It is a biography of St. Luke, and absolutely wonderful book
    to read.  I couldn;t put it down.  At the end, his conversation with
    the Blessed Mother is so inspiring, I read it over and over.  And the
    part where he describes the Crucification makes you feel like you are
    really there.  It really is a moving book.  I highly recommend it!

    re .8
    
    Interestingly enough, the reason Taylor Caldwell feels she was able
    to write with such accuracy and feeling about that time period and of
    the Crucification was because she believes she lived at that time in a
    past life.  She expressed these views some time back in a book she
    coauthored with Jess Stern (can't recall the name of it).
    
    Ro
    

    
		    GLITTERING IMAGES by Susan Howatch

This is the first in a series of novels about the Church of England in the
twentieth century.  These novels intricately and skillfully weave theology,
church history, psychology, and human dilemmas into fascinating plots.
_Glittering Images_ is set in 1937.


	Characters in _Glittering Images_ from Author's Note:

The character of Charles Ashworth is fictitious.  The character of Alex Jardine
is based in part on the life and career of Herbert Henseley Henson (1863-1947),
one of the leaders of the Church of England in the early twentieth century.

William Cosmo Gordon Lang was Archbishop of Canterbury from 1928 until 1942.
In 1938 during a debate in the House of Lords on Abyssinia, Henson opposed Lang
with an unprecedented degree of fierceness, but their tendency to disagree had
already been revealed to the public; a year earlier during the Lords debate on
the Marriage Bill, Lang had merely adopted a position of neutrality, but Henson
had spoken in favour of extending the divorce laws with an eloquence which was
later recorded with grateful admiration by the Bill's author, A. P. Herbert.


			   From a "Blurb"

Charles Ashworth [is a] widowed clergyman who becomes involved in the
relationship of Alex Jardine, Bishop of Starbridge, and Miss Lyle Christie,
companion to the Bishop's wife.  This unusual assignment from the Archbishop of
Canterbury creates for Ashworth passionate confrontations with his past and
future relationships, with women and with the Church, and changes his life
forever.

		      From page 4 of the novel:

	I [Ashworth] said politely: "Of course I'd be glad to help you in any
way I can, Your Grace."
	"Then I'll see you on Sunday evening.  Thank you, Charles," said Dr.
Lang, and after giving me a brisk blessing, he terminated the call.  I was left
staring at the mitre I had sketched, but gradually I became aware that my gaze
had shifted to the last words I had written before the interruption.
	"Modalism appealed to the Church's desire for monotheism, but in the
second half of the fourth century it was propounded that the modalist God
metamorphosed himself to meet--"
	I found I had lost interest in my new book.
	My ordeal had begun.
	

		    GLAMOROUS POWERS by Susan Howatch

This is the second novel in the series.  It is the first one I read and is
still my favorite.  (I haven't finished the third one yet!)


	Characters in _Glamorous Powers_ from Author's Note:

The character of Jon Darrow is fictitious.  Darrow's religious thought is
derived from the writings of William Ralph Inge (1860-1954), one of the leading
intellectuals of the Church of England in the late nineteenth and early
twentieth century.... Following his ordination he became a fellow of Hertford
College, Oxford, where Idealist philosophy was in the ascendant, and it was
there that he turned from pure scholarship towards metaphysics.... he saw his
"religion of the spirit" as not only embodyting the highest wisdom of the past
but offering a profound spiritual relevance to the world of today and tomorrow.
In _The Platonic Tradition in English Religious Thought_, he wrote:

	My contention is that besides the combative Catholic and
	Protestant elements in the Churches, there has always been
	a third element, with very honourable traditions, which came
	to life again at the Renaissance, but really reaches back to
	the Greek fathers, to St. Paul and St. John, and further back
	still.  The characteristics of this type of Christianity are --
	a spiritual religion based on a firm belief in absolute and
	eternal values as the most real things in the universe -- a
	confidence that these values are knowable by man -- a belief
	that they can nevertheless be known only by wholehearted
	consecration of the intellect, will and affections to the
	great quest -- an entirely open mind towards the discoveries
	of science -- a reverent and receptive attitude to the beauty,
	sublimity and wisdom of the creation, as a revelation of the
	mind and character of the Creator -- a complete indifference to
	the current valuations of the worldling.

It is this religion of the spirit which I have tried to reflect in the
character of Jon Darrow.


			   From a "Blurb"

Darrow is a willful, proud, manipulative man, struggling to subdue his
tempestuous character.... The resulting crisis -- in which Darrow finally faces
the necessary process of uncovering deeply buried pain -- underlines Ms.
Howatch's concern with the continual play of light and dark in the human
spirit.... Her grasp of psychic experiences and the inner struggle between the
urge to do spiritual good and the temptation to exert control make for an
engrossing read.

		      From page 1 of the novel:

	The vision began at a quarter to six; around me the room was suffused
with light, not the pellucid light of a fine midsummer morning but the dim
light of a wet dawn in May.  I was sitting on the edge of my bed when without
warning the gold lettering on the cover of the Bible began to glow....

    
		    ULTIMATE PRIZES by Susan Howatch

This is the third in the series and takes place after WW II.  (The next one,
_Scandalous Risks_, is set in the 1960s and will look at the Church from the
point of view of an outsider.) 


  	   Characters in _Ultimate Prizes_ from Author's Note:

Neville Aysgarth's religious thought (though not his private life) is based on
the writings of Charles Earle Raven (1885-1964).

In his theology Raven believed that a divine purpose operated through and in
the evolutionary process, and that there was an essential unity in all created
things.  He had no time for a God conceived as sitting up on high outside the
world.  For him God was in the world, immanent, and the pinnacle of God's
creative evolutionary process was the human personality.  Having placed this
great emphasis on personality, Raven stressed the idea of a personal God and
saw religion at its best in terms of personal communication with this divine
figure....

This fundamentally optimistic approach to the world meant that in Raven's
writings there was little room for paradox and tragedy, alienation and
ambiguity, and when the new neo-orthodox school of theology tried to grapple
with these probles, he was bitterly opposed not only to the idea of a
transcendent God who stood apart from mankind but to the idea that truth could
be reached through disunity, by the clash of opposing principles...

George Kennedy Allen Bell, two years Raven's senior, was Bishop of Chichester
from 1929 to 1957.... He was not a pacifist, but his speeches appealing for the
preservation of Christian values in the conduct of the war soon brought him
into conflict with the Government's policies, and he earned himself many
enemies in high places; people often failed to understand that Bell remained
passionately anti-Nazi.  After the war he went to Berlin and preached the
Christian message of reconciliation to the thousands who flocked to hear him.


			   From a "Blurb"

Few books caputre more inspirationally the grace-filled drama of estrangment
and reconcilation.

Neville Aysgarth, right-hand man to the Bishop of Starbridge, has it all:  the
perfect wife and family, a perfect future in the Church, all of life's ultimate
prizes.  How, then, does he become ensnared in the web of deceit, obsession,
adultery and pride, which may bring his ruin?  He must face the truth about
himself to obtain the one true ultimate prize: survival.


		      From page 1 of the novel:

	The most appalling feature of the morning after I nearly committed
adultery was my lack of surprise.  I was scared out of my wits, racked by
regret and almost prostrated by shame, but a virtuous amazement was notably
absent.  For some time my life had resembled a ball of wool kidnapped by a
kitten, and now, after the preliminary unravelling, I was apparently
experiencing the start of the inevitable tangled mess.
	As we all know, adultery is far from uncommon, particularly in
spring-time and particularly among people in the prime of life, but it happens
to be an activity which disqualifies me from my job; if a clergyman commits
adultery he becomes spiritually disabled, unfit for further service.

    Hi Nancy,
    
    The books sound interesting, especially GLAMOUROUS POWERS.  I'll put
    them on my 'to read' list.  I know I've read something by Susan Howatch
    before.  Hmmm, didn't she have a best selling series in the early
    seventies about an English dynasty?
    
    Ro
    

    She is the author of 6 suspense novels and 7 major bestselling novels
    besides this series.  Some of them listed are _The Wheel of Fortune_
    about the rambling Welsh estate of Oxmoon; _Sins of the Fathers- about
    the Van Zales; _The Rich Are Different_ also about the Van Zales;
    _Cashelmara_ home of the aristocratic de Salis clan in 19th century
    Ireland; _Penmarric_ a great mansion in Cornwall, etc.  
    
    (None of these sounds as fascinating as the ones I desribed, but maybe
    they are!) 
    
    Nancy

    I read _Glamorous Powers_.  It was quite enthralling even without
    having read it's predecessor.  
    
    Nanci

    Thanks for the glimpses, Nancy!

    In addition to Lewis' space trilogy, I'd recommend his Narnia books
    and the adult book 'Til we have faces'
    
    Bonnie

    "Letters to the Earth," by Samuel Langhorn Clemens AKA Mark Twain.
    
    This is actually a collection of short stories, some unfinished,
    that were never published before the '60's (as I recall).  The
    title story consists of correspondence between Satan and his brother
    archangels, Michael and Gabriel.  It puts an intrigueing perspective
    on many things we humans believe or just accept without question.
    
    Available in paperback.
    
    Peace,
    Richard

RE:           <<< Note 17.6 by GOLF::BERNIER "The Organic Christian" >>>

>      That Hideous Strength - never can get past the first few chapters
>                              which are boooooooorrrring. The only thing I
>                              own by Lewis that hasn't absolutely wow-ed me.
    
    Gil,

    I had exactly the same reaction the first time I hit this book.  Try
    picking it up again next time you hit the first two books.  Read them
    in rapid succession, and pay slightly less attention during the first
    two chapters.  Once the book gets moving, you won't be able to put it
    down!

    In this book, Lewis actually does too good a job of capturing the
    essence of a droll, good-ole-boy business atmosphere.  It's boring. 
    But then he interjects some more exciting story lines.  Look for
    similarities with the themes in the earlier books of the trilogy,
    combined with Lewis's ideas about the "inner circle," discussed in some
    of his short essays (sorry, can't remember which ones).

    The book continues to have these incredibly dull, boring, overly
    descriptive, overly conversation-laden sections throughout.  Don't
    skip them.  Lewis actually uses them to build suspense.  You will
    become incredibly frustrated with these passages.  You will want to
    skim.  But you can't, there _is_ content to them.  At the same time,
    you want to "get on with the story," and they just get in your way.

    This is one of the most suspenseful books I have read, because of
    the use of this technique.  It also has some interesting things to
    say about life, and does so by putting you in a slightly different
    frame of mind.  And it is the _culmination_ of the first two books.
    If you liked the first two books, you have to read it, _have_ to read
    it, HAVE TO!!!!

    :-)

    I haven't reread Lewis's space trilogy since reading Peretti's
    novels.  Has anyone noticed a similarity?  It's been years, but I
    seem to remember some similarities, in terms of juxtaposing a
    "surface" or "physical (perceptible) reality" story line against a
    "deep" or "significant yet not fully perceptible reality" story line.

    Peretti does this very obviously, using a second physical reality as
    the mode for describing spiritual warfare.  I'll have to reread, but
    I seem to remember that Lewis did something similar, but putting less
    of a physical framework around the "larger world" the angels live in.

    Lewis leaves a lot more up to the reader's inference, but there are
    angels in there, and they're involved heavily.  Oooh, got to read it
    again...

    
    In case anyone is interested in the books Playtoe mentioned in
    in note 114, here are the titles of the books by Thomas Mann and
    the order in which in which it would be advisable to read them:
    
     "Joseph And His Brothers" (The Tales Of Jacob)
     "Young Joseph"
     "Joseph In Egypt"
     "Joseph The Provider"
    
      Two other books by Mann that deal with Christian themes are:
    
     "The Holy Sinner" which explores the sinful nature of humans 
      and salvation through faith.
    
     "The Magic Mountain" this work examines the the relationship of
     the sacred and the secular in human affairs.
    
                                                       Mike

    Has anyone out there read "Stranger in a Strange Land" by Robert
    Heinlein?  If so, what did you think of the allusions and parallels
    with Christianity which the author wove in?
    
    Peace,
    Richard

    I've read "Stranger in a Strange Land". I've read almost everything
    Heinlein wrote but "Stranger" is about the only book he wrote that
    I did not like. The allusions and parallel he uses are an interesting
    and often used technique but somehow this book left me thinking that
    RAH was distorting the message somehow. I don't remember details as
    it was more then 15 years since I read the book but I have no desire
    to re-read it.
    
    			Alfred

re: .22 CSC32::J_CHRISTIE "Uncomplacent Peace"

I read this years ago and I personally liked it.  I thought the allusions
to Christianity were interesting.  I don't remember specific details but I do
remember that the main character was sort of like a Christ-like character. I 
found this unusual because Heinlein generally is very critical of religion. I
haven't read all of his work but in the one's I have read he generally 
satirizes religious institutions or norms, especially Christianity. 

I've read Stranger in a Strange Land many times and have enjoyed it.

It was only after the fourth reading or so when my 9th grade English
teacher saw me reading and asked me about the parellels to Christ that
I put two and two together.  (Finding allusions was never one of my
strong points!)

I was never very comfortable with the parellels because there were too
many discrepencies between Mike Smith and Jesus (even in my pre-evangelical
days!)  So, I have continued to ignore any parellels and just enjoy it
as a very good piece of science fiction.

On a side note, I have been *very* disappointed with the more recent work
of Robert Heinlein as it continually pushes immorality and explictly
rejects both the morals and the beliefs of Christians both by making
fun of what they do as well as depicting "Christian" characters as
hypocrites.  This seems to be a major focus of these newer books.  I
threw the last one away after reading 75 pages.

Collis

    Re.25

    Collis:
            Wow !! 75 pages, that's a lot farther than I made it 
    into that book. 
             Frankly I never understood the popularity of his stuff.
     Putting on my literary critics hat I have to say he is one of the
     worst authors I've ever ever tried to read.

                                                               Mike

    I liked "Stranger in a Strange Land", though I didn't associate the
    story so strongly with Christianity. The rest of his books I found a
    lot harder to get on with.

The Moon is a Harsh Mistress is one of my favorite sci-fi books of all time.

By the way, it has nothing to do with Christianity, other than the
philosophical question of what exactly a soul is and can a computer
be alive.  (Is that enough for me to enter this note here?)  :-)

Collis

    Heinlein promotes quite a number of ideas in his books that are
    contrary to (at least conservative) Christianity. Rather involved
    multiple person marriages, incest, and an altogether free for all
    view of sex in general. His works also have been branded sexist
    as well. I take it all as light fiction. If I only read authors
    with my beliefs I'd have too little to read for fun.

    Science Fiction in general seems to be if not anti religion at least
    not pro religion. I've always felt that a person who read science
    fiction and kept his/her faith must have a fairly strong faith. If
    not when they started when they finished. One of the advantages of
    the process though is that it gives one a chance to pit their own
    beliefs and philosophies against quite a number of often quite
    extreme other beliefs. Fitting in how one perceives they would
    act according to their beliefs in a situation and comparing it
    with how the fictional character does with theirs is interesting and
    at times instructive.

    		Alfred

re: .29

Most science fiction writers I've read tend to be anti-Christian rather than
anti-religion.  Though a lot of them tend to be secular humanists I find that
many of them do use favor certain religious ideas.  In Star Wars for example, 
the religious connotations came from Eastern philosophy and religion.  The idea
of "The Force" is very Taoist in origin.  Many of the sword & sorcery novels 
borrow pagan religious ideas like druids and the like.

ktlam....

Funny about "Stranger in a Strange Land;" sci-fi enthusiasts usually
don't speak very highly of it.

No need to worry about Heinlein writing another book like it.  Heinlein
died sometime within the last 16 months, as I recall.

I have becoming increasingly intrigued by the concept of "grok"; that is,
to "know"; but more than cerebrally knowing: to understand, to integrate,
to assimilate.  And yet, these do not adequately define "grok".

Thoughts of "grok" sometimes come to mind when I take communion.

Peace,
Richard

re: 17.30 

>Most science fiction writers I've read tend to be anti-Christian rather than
>anti-religion. 
	I don't know if anti-Christian is the right term, unless by that you 
mean Bible-thumping, televangelical rip-off artists.  You will find a lot of
these sorts and those others who use religion either for their own ends or to
oppress others put in a bad light in some science fiction writings.

George

Gore Vidal appeared on Good Morning America last week promoting his new book,
"Live from Golgotha."  It is a surrealistic account of the events of passion
week as seen through the eyes of Saint Timothy.  "Timothy," Vidal quipped,
"was a kind of 'Robin' to Paul's 'Batman.'"

The story line sounds very bizarre and whimsical.  A television news crew is
transported back in time to cover the crucifixion story, hence, the name of
the book.  Shirley Maclaine is also present, having channelled herself there.

I've not read the book or even seen it in the bookstores yet.  I'd be curious
to hear the impressions of anyone who has.

Peace,
Richard

Reaching way back now to Note 17.1 (entered herein September 21, 1990):

                                  -< Joshua >-

		  A parable for today, by Joseph F. Girzone

	I recently had the pleasure to read this thought-provoking and
potentially life-altering book.  I might not have picked it up on my own,
but it was a gift from a friend.  Friends often demonstrate an uncanny
insight, do they not?

	What if Jesus were to visit us today?  What would he be like?  What
would he think of the church?  With scrupulous attention to Scripture, the
author explores these and numerous other questions concerning life, religion,
and faithful living.

	A sample:

	"Yes," Joshua answered, "because Jesus never intended that religion
do the damage to people it has.  It is horrible how many religious leaders
have persecuted and even had people tortured for their beliefs.  Even God
respects people's freedom, and faith is a gift.  People must believe freely.
The function of religious leaders is to set an example, to draw people to
God by their own deep faith and by the beauty of their personal lives, nor
intimidate people into sterile external observance.  That is not religion.
That mocks true religion.
	True religion comes from the heart.  It is a deep relationship with
God, and should bring peace and joy and love to people, not fear and guilt
and meanness.  And worship has meaning only when it is free.  God is not
honored by worship that is forced by threat of sin or penalty.  Nor is God
honored by subservient obedience to religious laws devoid of love.  God is
pleased only by the free expression of the soul that truly loves him.  Any-
thing less is counterfeit and serves only the short-term needs of religious
institutions."

Shalom,
Richard

    	The follow-up to "Joshua" is "Joshua and the Children" set in
    	Northern Ireland, and examines the strife there as it affects
    	children.  Worth the price.