Conference koolit::disney

    In note 34.88, Len mentioned the Electrical Water Pageant music.
    To paraphrase, he said it sounded something like a combination of
    "Baroque Hoedown" and the Frugal Gourmet's theme.  Good ear Len!
    
    I recently found out the music was written by Handel and is part
    of his "Water Music Suite".  Two parts of the "Water Music Suite"
    are called "Horn Pipe".
    
    The first "Horn Pipe" in my copy of the "Water Music Suite" is the
    Frugal Gourmet's theme and is the same music that is played at the
    end of the Electrical Water Pageant.  I think that's when all the
    lights are shut off and they are towing the floats away.
    
    The second "Horn Pipe" in my copy of the "Water Music Suite" is the
    music they play at the start of the Electrical Water Pageant.

    Did anyone feel as if the writing of their trip report served as
    therapy during their withdrawal from their trip? It made it easy for me
    to handle coming back to the real world.
    
    Also, I felt that when I was entering notes in my little notebook that
    I had all of you with me. I kept on saying to myself, "Gotta tell the
    guys about this" and "Wait 'til they hear this."
    
    Mike

    Writing up the trip report is real good therapy to ease you over
    the withdrawal period.  I enjoyed writing mine and enjoy reading other
    people's.
    
    Karen

    I agree with Karen in -.1.  Writing the trip report can be good 
    therapy for you now and, better yet, later.  When I get THE urge,
    I read my trip report, which takes some of the anxiety away.

    Regarding other's trip reports, I can tell you all that I read every
    one which is entered.  They are the next best thing to being there,
    especially when I identify with the unique joy that a Disney trip 
    brings to everyone!

    Keep em coming.

	peter

    I also find that reading this notes file, which has become by far my
    favorite, also helps the the post Disney Syndrome.  It is great to read
    about the places when the images are still fresh in your mind.  One
    thing I also noticed it that the family atmosphere of the land of magic
    seems to linger here also.  As I read peoples personal experiences I 
    feel myself being transported there in my mind with them.  I guess what
    I am trying to say is that this is the most personable notes file in
    the network!  Keep up the good work everyone!
    

    Glad you've entered your report at last Andy (The Whittaker 
    Chronicles?). I'm in Basingstoke later this week, and I was going 
    to rush in and rip off your ears, but I guess you're still 
    suffering from typist's cramp, so I'll buy you a coffee instead. 
    It looks as though you spent all your spare time (when not eating 
    or boozing) making notes. Or did you take a lap-top and enter them 
    live? 
    
    Now that's a thought!
    
               se the spe
              u          ll
             c             ing, I'm 
    Please ex                       on Thunder M              
                                                o
                                                 u
                                                  n
                                                   t
                                                    a
                                                     i
                                                      n
                                                       !
                                                        !
                                                         !!!
    
    
    I'd better start practicing for Summer '91.
    
    Mike in Warrington, UK.

    Re: .52
    
    Could you describe the mini-bars?
    
    Thanks,
    
    Mike

    After having read the trip report in 183.52, I have the same question
    as Mike in -.1 -  Could you provide more details on the mini-bar?

    When we stayed at the CBR, way back in Nov, 1989, we paid over a dollar
    for a cup of coffee at OPR.  We enjoyed the early morning walk over and
    buying the cinnamon rolls, but did think the coffee was expensive.

	thanks - peter

    Re .52 Again.
    
    What's the Mr Coffee? The group I'm going with in summer are true 
    Brits, and can't start the day without a decent cup of tea. We 
    were planning to take a plentiful supply of tea and a teapot, and 
    investing in a kettle when we got out there. Is the Mr Coffee 
    capable of boiling water (really boiling it, not just heating it), 
    and allowing you to pour out the water into another pot? We are 
    all in the CBR, hopefully in adjacent rooms, but at least in the 
    same block.
    
    Inquiring Tea Addicts want to know!
    
    Mike in Warrington, UK.

    
    re. mini-bars:
    
    If they are like the ones in the Grand Floridian (and other hotels I've
    stayed at), they are small refridgerators that they keep stocked with
    booze, drinks, candy, nuts, etc.  When they come to clean your room in
    the morning, they check what you ate/drank the previous day and record
    it on your hotel bill.  The stuff is usually expensive.
    
    While some hotels frown on it, I buy my own stuff in store it in the
    fridge (sometimes there's no room to do this) rather than making tons
    of trips to the ice machine.
    
    SEAN/BEER=LABATTS

    Yes, the mini-bar is a little refrigerator and an adjacent cabinet. 
    I'm not absolutely sure what they hold because it was installed
    WHILE we were there, so we didn't have  a key to open it! (I assume you
    get the key when you check in).  But my vague memory of the menu/price
    list indicates that they stock sodas, wine, beer, and snacks.  They
    also stock coffee to put into the Mr. Coffee coffee-maker, which sits on
    top of the mini-bar, and I DID notice that one "pack" cost $2, which
    seemed a little steep to me for one pot of coffee (although I guess
    it's 6 cups).  I saw no reason you couldn't bring your own supplies and
    use them in the coffee maker.
    
    Regarding tea -- of course, I'm a Philistine when it come to the RIGHT
    way to make tea but I'll happily tell you what little I know.  A Mr.
    Coffee coffee-maker is the standard pour-cold-water-into-a-reservoir
    and the coffee maker heats the water, causing it to bubble up a pipe
    and pour down through the ground coffee in a filter basket into the
    pot.  I've used the same type of coffee maker to make tea, by putting a
    couple teaspoons of loose tea in the basket (on top of a filter paper,
    which you would have to provide); I liked it, but I suspect that it
    might not meet your boiling-water, steeped-tea standards.  If you know
    someone with one of these types of coffee-makers (they're very common
    here -- made by Braun, Krups, etc) you might experiment and see if it's
    acceptable.  It would make life easier (than having to bring an
    immersion heater or electric kettle, etc.)
    
    As mentioned in the previous note, mini-bar items tend to be expensive. 
    I'd recommend using them to supplement your own supplies (eg. bring a
    box of cereal, and use the mini-bar milk).  Since I didn't have a key
    to the mini-bar, I couldn't check to see how much "extra" space there
    is to keep your own supplies refrigerated.  In my experience, they
    usually design these things to just barely hold the items that are for
    sale.  They are trying to sell you things, not provide you with a
    refrigerator.
    
    Good luck and have fun...

    As a dedicated American tea drinker, my advice is: Buy an electric
    kettle here (though it can be kind of expensive - if you'll have a car,
   go to a K-MART, Bradlees, Wal-Mart, or Sears in Orlando - these stores are
    fairly reasonable and some sell at discounted prices).
    
    My family background is English and everyone in my family knows how to
    make proper tea.  Except when I've been in England, I've never come
    across any restaurant in America that does more than heat the water to
    varying degrees of hotness (and I eat out a lot!) slop a teabag in and
    let it stew.
    
    Bring your own tea too, and keep a small carton of milk in the frig. 
    They sell Twinings Tea at WDW, but it is a lot more expensive than if
    you bought it in the local grocery store in either Orlando or UK.  Get
    the milk, because everyone here wants to put cream in your tea.  If you
    have tea in a restaurant, even at WDW, specify that you want milk
    instead of cream, otherwise you will be automatically served with the
    cream pitcher.
    
    
    Good luck!

    We had a mini-bar in our rooms at the CBR and at the Yacht Club.
    Are there mini-bars in all of the CBR rooms now?  We thought we
    got one because we were in a more expensive room.  The mini-bar
    in the CBR was much bigger than the one at the Yacht Club.  In
    both cases, there was very little room for anything extra.  You
    might be able to fit a quart of milk in if you're lucky.
    
    The refills were done separate from the room cleaning.  We made
    a point of taking any extras out before the mini-bar refill person
    came around.  They take a complete inventory of the contents each
    day and replace any used items immediately.  The data is entered
    into a hand held device and is eventually fed to the computer (I
    assume based on prior experience with electronic inventory procedures).
    
    As for the contents, there was a major difference in contents and
    price between the CBR and the Yacht Club.  The CBR stuff is less
    expensive and there is more variety.
    
    CBR contents (from memory):
      Diet Coke in cans (2) cost was $.95
      Classic Coke in cans (2) cost was $.95
      Soda water in cans (2) cost was $.95
      Tonic water in cans
      Lipton Iced Tea in cans (1)
      Milk in "juice box" containers (4) cost was about $1.25
      Chocolate milk in "juice box" containers cost was about $1.25
      Apple Juice in "juice box" containers (2) cost was about $1.25
      Orange Juice in "juice box" containers (2) cost was about $1.25
      Various nip bottles of alcohol
      M & M's (plain and peanut)
      Eagle Snacks - small bags of pretzels and peanuts
      Raisin Bran cereal (2)
      Frosted Flakes cereal  (2)  (sugar coated corn flakes)
      Some other misc. snacks
      Coffee fixings
      Utensils for eating cereal and stirring coffee
      A drip coffee maker is on top of the mini-bar
    
    Yacht Club contents (from memory):
      Diet Coke in cans (2) cost was $1.25
      Classic Coke in cans (4) cost was $1.25
      Soda water in cans (1) cost was $1.25
      Tonic water in cans
      Apple Juice in "juice box" containers
      Various nip bottles of alcohol
      Toblerone chocolate bar (1) cost was around $4.00
      Eagle Snacks peanuts in cans cost was arount $4.00
      A few other things
      No coffee maker, no cereal
    
    I have a copy of the Yacht Club mini-bar prices at home.  I can enter
    it here if you'd like.
    
    Ruth

    Do these things have locks on them?  My boys could easily double our
    room charges if they decided to raid the refrigerator while Mom and Dad
    were asleep.

Boy, I sure hope they do have locks on them. Otherwise we will probably run into
some unexpected expenses next month at the Yacht Club if the 2 year old gets any
time at all without close direct supervision.......

I wonder if there's any chance that they'd remove all the stuff from the 'frig?
I'd sure like to be able to stock up on milk, juice, and such at Goodings on the
way in, and have full use of the refrigerator. Wishful thinking, most likely...

    Yes, the mini-bars have locks on them.  However, the CBR ones
    lend themselves to hours of whining for M & M's since some of
    the snacks are visible through a window.  Somehow we managed
    to resist the M & M's which constantly cried out for our
    attention.  Others might not be so lucky.
    
    The mini-bar at the Yacht Club was more like a dorm refrigerator
    so was less tempting.  Unfortunately, the Toblerone was
    strategically placed in front of the soda cans so was doomed
    to be eaten from the start.  I bet some marketing person got
    a promotion for thinking up that one.
    
    You get the key at check-in.  At the CBR I had to sign a
    statement that said something about not serving alcoholic
    beverages to people under age 21.  I didn't have to sign
    at the Yacht Club.
    
    Ruth

    
    What I like at the Grand Floridian is that you get a safe, too.
    
    SEAN/BEER=LABATTS

    The Dolphin has the mini bars also.  What I did when I stayed there was
    to take all the non perishable stuff (nuts, chips, etc) out of the
    refridge and add my own stuff.  We put it all back when we left (except
    for the M&M's but don't tell my wife) and were charged only for what we
    consumed.

    Maybe I'm in more of fog than usual today but I'm still not clear as to
    how these mini-bars operate.
    
    Could someone please provide this note with such info as:
    
     o Where exactly in the rooms have these mini-bars been installed?
    
     o Can you opt to NOT have them stocked during your stay and instead
       use the refrigerator as you wish?
    
     o Is there a freezer with the frig?
    
    I guess the CBR folks got tired of seeing piles of soda and such on the
    tables and coolers (like mine) right next to the suitcases.
    
    DOes this mean that Len will forego Fort Wilderness and those late
    night treks to you know where for some pizza?
    
    Len...take my word for it...Old Port Royale pizza ain't much to write
    home about.
    
    Mike_who_likes_the_idea_of_a_frig_but_not_a_mini_bar_in_the_room

    
    Don't forget the oreo cookies in the non-perishable part of the
    mini-bar!  The whole set up is right next to the TV.  One side 
    (about 2/3 of the set-up) was the fridge side, and the other 1/3
    was stocked with the non-perishables: cookies, candy, chips, p-nuts.
    
    The non-perishable side has a window from top to bottom-->(the floor)
    and you can see and hear those darn M&M's calling.  What I ended up
    doing after succuming to the stupid Snickers bar was to hang a towel
    over the window part.  (I used Mr. Coffee to hold the towel in place).
    But it *REALLY* helped me not to see that junk. I would definitely
    recomend placing something over it, so the kids (and the adults)
    don't have to be tempted, the prices are soooo expensive.
    
    I believe the units total size is comparable to the night stand
    between the beds.
    
    Hope this helps Mike.
    +- Sharon

    Reply to .19:
    
    The mini-bar they put in our room was between the table (which was by
    the window) and the armoire which held the TV.  To Disney, it's NOT a
    refrig (ie. an amenity provided to guests which helps them avoid
    paying high food prices); it's a mini-bar (ie. another way to get you
    to pay high food prices, but more conveniently!).  I've never asked not
    to have it stocked -- you could try, but I suspect they'd say "if you
    don't want anything from the min-bar, don't take the key to it when you
    check-in".  I'm not sure if it has a freezer -- if so, it would be
    ice-tray-sized.                            

    Is the key necessary to use the frig?
    
    In other words do you need to rent/buy the key to use the frig even
    though you may elect not to use any of the stocked items?
    
    Mike

    
    
    Mike,
    
    In the other hotels I've stayed in that had the mb's you get the key
    when you check in. By accepting the key you take the responsabilty for
    its contents( financialy and moraly ) The contents are always way
    overpriced there are coke machines in the halls and you're in a strange
    city. What I will do on the next visit is just say no ;^) to the key
    and use my collapsable cooler and the ice machine. You are also
    responsable for the key if lost and who wants another key to worry
    about while trucking through the world.
    
    fwiw
    
    steve

    I don't like the idea of the minibars in the Disney hotels. The 
    management knows darn well that most of the groups in the hotels
    have children. Having this candy and soda hanging out in the kids'
    faces in plain sight,  of course the kids are  going to plague the 
    parents for the grossly overpriced goodies. It might be terrific
    for Disney from a profit point of view, but I think it's rotten
    for parents who don't want their children to have too many sweets. 
    
    I'd rather see more vending machines in central areas (around the
    ice machines in CBR). It was a three building hike in the rain
    from our room (parking lot view) to the laundry to the only coke 
    machine. Is that macvhine still there, or was it removed with the 
    installation of the minibars?
    
    My experience in other hotels (not Disney) was that an inventory was 
    taken of the minibar daily. If we wanted to drink cokes, we would
    buy a 6 pack, drink the cold ones, then replace them with warm ones
    we had bought. One morning we forgot to put a warm one inside --
    we were charged, of course. When we squeezed some extras in, they
    were removed when the inventory was taken. No credit, of course, since
    we were using the minibar for other than its intended purpose.
     
    
    Linda

    re: .23
    
    You need a key to get into the mini-bars.  Having an extra key
    wasn't a problem for us, we just left it in the lock when we
    were in the room and threw it in the nightstand drawer when we
    were out.  We tend to be very trusting of the Disney cleaning
    staff.
    
    re: .25
    
    The soda machine was still in the laundry room when we were
    there.  I too would like to see more vending machines at the
    CBR.  I also wasn't thrilled to have the snacks visible.  The
    mini-bar at the Yacht Club had no window in it and was hidden
    inside the armoir (took us a few minutes to find it) but the
    one at the CBR had a window.  The visible items in our mini-bar
    were oreo cookies, raisin bran cereal, M&M's and some peanuts.
    Everything else was hidden.  Maybe people will complain to
    Disney and the window will be replaced with a solid panel.  If
    that's done, the cabinet will look like the typical humidifier
    and kids from New England won't know the difference!
    
    We decided we liked the idea of having a mini-bar available.
    We had no trouble with eating all the junk and liked the variety
    of beverages available.  Some days we got our sodas from the
    laundry room to save 20 cents but most times I just drank the
    soda water from the mini-bar.
    
    Ruth

When my brother stayed at the Buena Vist Palace, he demanded that they
empty the fridge because he did not want to buy any of the stuff in it, 
he wanted to use it to cool beer, soda etc. After a couple of rather
loud calls they bowed to his wishes.

Doug

    I have reservations for CBR in March for 3 nights, four adults and 1 17
    month old.  We have never stayed there.  When I made the reservation I
    think I asked about a frig in the room and they said there weren't any.
    It looks like from this note that there is  frig in each room.  We want
    to be able to give the baby milk, juice, etc. without having to pay a
    lot for it.  We were planning on buying a styrofoam cooler when we got
    there and stock it up.  Also we were going to bring a hot plate to give
    the baby soup, oatmeal, and maybe a few other meals.  Has anyone ever
    done this?  Any suggestions would be helpful.
    
    Mary Ellen

    Re .28
    
    On our last trip at the CBR we not only brought a hot pot but one of
    the plug in electric burners. With a non stick pan we made such
    things as grilled cheese sandwiches,pancakes, macaroni as coffee and
    tea. With a cooler and a couple of trips to Goodings market we ate real
    cheap.
    
    Bill 
    

    WHERE'S ALL THE TRIP REPORTS
    I haven't seen any trip reports since last year, have they moved?
                                

    Rep to <<< Note 227.30 by NEST::DABY >>>

    Trip reports for 1990 year are in  topic  # 183.*, and trip reports for
    1991 are in topic # 237.*.
    
    My guess as to why there aren't that many reports for this year is that
    it's still early and given the company current situations, folks coming
    back are probably working hard to help turn the  situation around, that
    they just haven't the time to enter a long report.    

    If  that  is  indeed the case then a short reply stating that you  have
    benefited  from  the  various  tidbits  of  info  found  all  over  the
    conferrence would be nice,  and  a longer version could be entered at a
    later date.  However the  sooner you do it the better, since it will be
    fresh in your mind, unless you take good notes ;^).
    
    Claude
    Back in the moderators seat ;^),  it was hard these past few months not
    contributing to this great conferrence, oh no I stating to itch....

    Rob, 
    
    	    Great Report, Thanks!  I'm doing the Majestic/Abacos Out 
    Islands cruise in July, so I'd appreciate any info or hints you've 
    got. Note 41.* is dedicated to Premier Cruise stuff, so it's 
    obviously a valid topic for this conference. How about a report 
    when you've got the time?
    
    Mike.

    Rob,
    
    Thanks for a great report. I especially liked your "update" at the end
    on areas "in progress". YOur report made an otherwise bogged down work
    day a bit better.
    
    Mike

    
    Rob - I have to agree with Mike.  Thanks for the trip report.  There
    are those of us who DO read all of the trip reports entered.  The
    update at the end helps those of us who haven't been to the world
    for awhile keep up to date with all that is happening at the happiest
    place on earth.
    
    to anyone else going soon (or having gone earlier this year) - remember
    to submit your trip report.
    
    peter

    
      Thanks guys, I tried to keep things organized in my head since I
     didn't take any notes. I had a lot of fun writing the report,
     reliving some of the great times. With all the great Info I get from
     this conference, I would never go down to WDW and not post a trip
     report ASAP upon my return. This file is great, and so are the Mods,
     and the participants.
    
                      Thanks again to all who have answered my questions
                       in the past, and will in the future.
    
                                     -Rob
     

    
    
    FYI 237.4
    
    There are two types of dolphins. One is the "Flipper" mammal, the other
    is a fish. I think the Hawaiian word sometimes used for the fish kind
    of dolphin is mahi mahi....                   
    

    
    re: 237.6
    
    The dolphins on the Dolphin Hotel have scales (like a fish) but they
    have "flipper"-type tails (like a whale).  I think they look more like
    pineapples with fat lips than anything else.
    
    --Jay
    

    
    Re: 237.37
    
    Ha Ha Ha, GOOD DESCRIPTION!
    
    I collect dolphins, in paper, photgraphs, jewelry, ceramics, etc.
    I *DID NOT* want a picture of the "disney dolphin" however.
    
    Pineapples with fat lips, I am just rolling on the floor!!!!!!!!!!  
    
  +- Sharon

    
    oops, on the previous reply I meant the description in 227.37 not 237.37.
                                                           

    
         I think that the scales on the FISH ornaments of the Dolphin hotel
       are there because a Dolphin statue would have no contrast.  Since 
       Dolphins are smooth,  a proper statue of a Dolphin would look
       somewhat boring,  I guess.   What ever those things are suppose to 
       be,  they are not Dolphins and they are not Mahi-Mahi either.
       Looks like a tribute to the Don Knotts movie, The incredible Mr
       Limpett!!!
    
                                    -Rob
    

           >>Looks like a tribute to the Don Knotts movie, The incredible Mr
           >>Limpett!!!
    
    HA HA HA HA HA I LOVE IT!!!!!!

    re: Mr Limpett
    
    I thought the same thing!

    If they get enough bad reaction maybe it will float way?
    

    Re: Susan M.'s trip report
    
    After reading Susan's trip report I felt that there were some things to
    note:
    
          - Susan mentioned the problem she had booking Hoop-Dee-Doo. If
            you stay on the property you can book HDD with your
            confirmation number. Book HDD as soon as you can.
    
          - Port Royale Food Court Lines. It's hit or miss here depending
            upon when you eat. I found that the poor weather days always 
            made for long lines here. 
    
          - Many of us WDW veterans probably take for granted the
            "official" opening at TMK. First-timers are in for a
            treat if they get there early to see this. Only Main Street,
            USA is open before 9 but when 9 A.M. arrives you'll see....
            ...well I won't spoil it for you. I didn't hit TMK early in
            the morning last trip so my kids haven't witnessed the "magic".
    
          - Yes! Yes! Yes! Your resort card gives you FREE parking in the
            lots...FREE!!!!
    
          - Ariel will be a tough character to see around the parks.
            Remember, she is a mermaid and how can a mermaid walk?
    
          - If you get to TMK before the 9 A.M. MK opening head over to 
            Fantasyland first as it will  fill up fast.
    
          - Here's hoping that the Monte Cristo makes a comeback someday.
            I missed it by 2 weeks. Susan, you missed it by 10 months.
    
    Mike
             

    Rep to <<< Note 227.44 by COEM::SCOPA "I'd rather be in Orlando" >>>

>          - Susan mentioned the problem she had booking Hoop-Dee-Doo. If
>            you stay on the property you can book HDD with your
>            confirmation number. Book HDD as soon as you can.

    The first time I stayed on site, I booked 15 months in advance, and was
    able to book the HDD.   But this time I booked 14 months in advance and
    was told that  they  don't book that early, she could go that far ahead
    on the computer.  ( needless to say I was bummed) So now I need to call
    in a couple of months and try again.
    
>          - Many of us WDW veterans probably take for granted the
>            "official" opening at TMK. First-timers are in for a
>            treat if they get there early to see this. Only Main Street,
>            USA is open before 9 but when 9 A.M. arrives you'll see....
>            ...well I won't spoil it for you. I didn't hit TMK early in
>            the morning last trip so my kids haven't witnessed the "magic".

    Ah come on stop hinting at  the  secrets  will you, now it'll realy get
    crowded we I go next time ;^)

>          - Here's hoping that the Monte Cristo makes a comeback someday.
>            I missed it by 2 weeks. Susan, you missed it by 10 months.

    your not the only one.
    
    Claude

    Re the HDD reservations...
    
    We booked our trip 6 weeks in advance, and I called for reservations
    immediately after booking.  All they had was the 10 pm show on Sunday,
    which was not good for us.  My point in the note was that I kept
    trying...several times a week, the night before departure, and three
    times the day of arrival.  
    
    I agree you should book as soon as possible-- but if you don't succeed,
    persistence pays off.
    
    Susan

    I understand that if you are not staying at WDD that you can't book the
    HDD until 30 days in advance... Is this true???
    
    Rick

    Rep to <<< Note 227.47 by FDCV07::KING "Jesse's Jets!" >>>

>    I understand that if you are not staying at WDD that you can't book the
>    HDD until 30 days in advance... Is this true???

    Last I knew it was, but I've been known to be wrong before ;^).  I know
    Top of The World is/was 30 days  and  I  believe  HDD was also.  Len or
    Mike do you have your bible handy?
    
    Being in DEC-Flex, and  doing  the job I'm in right now I don't have an
    office I can call home,  so  my  office  now comprises of 5 boxes in my
    garrage with my office copy of the bible  in  one of them, I'll have to
    check when I get home.
    
    re:  my reply, what bummed me was back  in  '84  when  I  reserved  my
    Treehouse 15 months in advance., I also made my HDD reservations in the
    same phone call.  But when I called last Febuary for  April  '92  I was
    told  they would be able to do it until late May early  June,  so  they
    apparently  change  something or I got one of the operators in training
    or whatever.
    
    Claude

    I just tried to get a HDD reservation and I was told that they
    can't do dinner show reservations for the next four or five days
    because they're installing a new computer!  Do you think I got
    a trainee?!!  It's no big deal to me, I'll just call next week.
    But what are they doing for people that are going to be down
    there next week??   Seems strange to me!
    
    Karen

    Re: Andy Schneider's trip report.
    
    Andy mentioned how packed it was at MGM on Monday. This just verifies
    what has been said many times....Monday and Tuesday are the busy days
    down there.
    
    Also Andy vowed never to drive down again. Andy you may want to
    indicate why you feel that way. Some people like driving down and
    others like flying down. Was it that accident you saw?
    
    Did you stay in any AAA places on the way down? On my trip last year I
    figured gas, tolls, and motels cost about $500 round trip and we stayed
    in fairly decent places.
    
    Anything you can share that would help future Disney goers decide would
    be helpful.
    
    Mike

    re: .51
    
    Mike,
    
    Yea, we knew that the park would be busy on Monday, but because
    our trip spanned several days, we had to hit a busy day at some
    point.  Saturday was the best day (Epcot), but Sunday was more
    crowded than I thought it would be (MK).  Tuesday was not that
    bad in terms of crowds at Epcot, though.  We went during what
    was called an "off week" (week between "week after easter" and
    school vacation week), and even folks at Disney were a bit surprised
    at the crowds, especially on Sunday.
    
    As for the drive - I guess it was just the fact that it was several
    days down and a long drive with 2 kids and a wife that (a) wanted
    to get to Orlando badly, and (b) then wanted to get home badly.
    I really like long road trips, but I guess my family doesn't share
    that "like".  :-(   The sighting of accidents didn't deter us at
    all, as I can see stuff like that even in my own "home town".  I
    tend to be much more cautious when driving long trips, and give lots
    of leeway during driving, especially in heavier city traffic.  Nope,
    our decision to fly next time is strictly a personal choice, although
    the drive down isn't a bad one, just long.
    
    As far as the cost and hotels, etc - We have a Mazda MPV 4WD mini-van.
    My gas mileage for the trip averaged about 19mpg.  My total gas cost
    for the trip was about $270.  Gas was expensive in the northern part
    of the trip, and cheaper down south.  We stayed a total of 5 nights
    in hotels (3 down, 2 back).  We stayed at Holiday Inns the whole way,
    mostly because I've got a Priority Club card for them, and it gives
    me a great rate (single) for the whole family.  The Holiday Inns at
    Emporia VA, Savanah GA, Lumberton NC, and Wilmington DE averaged
    about $45 per night, and all were very nice.  The 5th night was
    actually our first night, that in Washington DC, and it was a lot
    more, being $90 per night - so that bumped the cost.  Tolls were
    probably on the order of $15 or so for the whole trip.  Meals were
    probably one of our downfalls, as the kids like to eat at McDonalds
    and BK's.  Plus, the playgrounds at those places really helped Mom
    and Dad catch their breath during the drive.
    
    We got the AAA triptik's and books, and found them very useful.
    We looked at some AAA hotels at our "stop spots", but found a lot
    of them were booked in advance already (very surprising), so some
    of the "cheaper" accomodations were already snarfed up.  The Holiday
    Inns were a good compromise - perhaps a couple of $$'s more, but
    very nice and they had a non-smoking, 1st floor waiting for us at
    every stop.
    
    Let me know if there are any other questions.  These trips have sooooo
    much to them, it's hard to talk about everything........
    
    andy
    

    Andy,
    
    I'm glad you were able to give more details on your trip because it may 
    help others (first-timers) who are struggling with the decision whether
    or not to drive.
    
    Some thoughts...
    
        - When I went last year I found that using the highest octane
          gas, though more expensive, gave better mileage. Just a thought.
          My gas cost began from the first time I gassed up after beginning
          the trip. Total cost was less than $200. We went down in a
          Grand Voyager and I figured we averaged between 23 and 28 MPG. It
          helped to use cruise control.
    
        - The price of staying overnight was about the same. You bring up a 
          good point for everyone to note and that is that the motels close
          to D.C. are up there in cost and you should plan to get below
          D.C. by about 50 miles before looking for a place to stay.
    
          For those planning on driving it's good to budget for $50/night.
    
        - Food. Let's face it...ya gotta stop and relax as Andy said.
          However if you bring snacks along and can bring a cooler in your 
          vehicle you can make good time in the morning. We tried to snack
          all day and eat in a restaurant wherever we stopped to spend the 
          night.
    
        - Traveling with the family can be trying, especially with young 
          kids. Drive early morning whenever possible...let the rest of the
          family sleep.
    
    
        Thanks Andy for your input,
    
        Mike

    I'm for driving......
    
    We left MArlboro Mass. at 11:00 p.m. last 4'th of july. 
    4 adults and 1 child (6 yrs) in a Grand Caravan.
    1'st stop was for in N.J. for soda and gas ?
    2'nd stop was SOUTH of Washington for breakfast and gas.
    next major stop was lunch, gas and restrooms.
    Stopped for the 1'st night in South CAROLINA at about 3:00 or so.
    Arrived in orlando around 2:00 the next afternoon.
    
    We switched drivers, or stopped for a rest whenever ANYONE in the car
    wanted. We did not feel like we were pushing. We used the money saved
    from the airfair to pay for the extra's we did on the way home. Like
    a couple days in Williamsburg and 2 days in Washington.
    
    Tolls and gas were around $100 each way. I clocked mileage and gas
    and I remember the total trip as 24 MPG.
    
    The trick was that with the GRAND caravan we fit ALL luggage inside
    with no roof carrier to hurt gas mileage. With 5 people we left the
    farthest back bench seat for 1 person at a time. This left room to
    lie down and even nap.
    
    We are planning to drive again !!!   NEXT YEAR.
    
    PASCO
    

    Trip reports are very helpful in more ways than one. Joan Sklenak's
    report from her trip last Fall raises some interesting points and/or
    questions.
    
    Joan, I noticed that you stayed in no less than 5 different places
    during your stay. Did you find yourself spending a lot of time during
    those "transition days" when you went from one hotel to the next? I
    guess my question is whether next time you'd prefer to stay in one
    location for your entire stay.
    
    The Contemporary has been slated for renovation for the last year or
    so. It was unfortunate that you were caught in the middle.
    
    You also made a good point about reservations at shows and restaurants.
    Those planning on seeing several shows and dining around should be wise
    to plan their schedule so they have ample time in between these
    engagements.
    
    It was interesting to hear that you found the 30 minute waiting period
    at Universal rather long. Two months earlier the lines were averaging
    75 minutes.
    
    Mike

    We did bounce around hotels a lot.  Disney made that real easy.  I
    would do it again ... simply because each place had it's reason. We did
    the CBR the first night since we were arriving late and didn't want to
    spend the extra money when we'd only be there eight hours.  We only
    unpacked the clothes we needed.  The next morning we called the porter
    and told them where our next reservations were.  It probably only
    slowed us down 10 minutes or so.  After a full day in the park, we
    returned to the Contemporary.  All of our stuff was thre waiting for
    us.  
    
    We used the Contemporary because my husband was there when he was
    young.  He had fabulous memories and insisted on going back there. 
    What neither he nor I realized was how much the park had grown and
    changed since he was little.  The convenience of the monorail doesn't
    help with MGM, Typhoon Lagoon and Pleasure Island.  I still liked the
    Contemporary location, but it isn't what it used to be.
    
    We were at the Contemporary for seven nights which gave us enough time
    to unpack and relax.  The move to the Grand Floridian was just as easy
    as the change from the CBR to Contemporary.  We checked out in the
    morning, went over to Typhoon Lagoon and just returned to the Grand
    Floridian.  Once again, our belongings were waiting.  This was the last
    Disney night, we were on our honeymoon, and we figured we could splurge
    for a night of luxury.  
    
    The last two nights we looked for the cheapest "clean" hotel close to
    Disney and the other Orlando attractions.  "Cheap" allowed us the extra
    days without worrying about cost.  We also planned these last days
    outside the park so it wasn't necessary to pay Disney hotel prices.
    
    As for Universal ... I guess the thirty minute wait was frustrating
    since the park was NOT crowded (it's early October by now) and no other
    place we'd been (All of Disney, Sea World and Busch Gardens) had 0-10
    minute waits all week.  It just seemed they failed some where in
    learning to deal with crowd management.  
    
    Thanks for the comments ... it helps to bring the trip back to life.
    
    Joan

    
    
    Just some thoughts  the Weber's trip report brought to mind. One thing
    that I don't think has been mentioned in here before is that Florida
    schools have gone to a year-round school year. We were told of this on
    our last trip 8-90 I think it runs 6-8 weeks on 2 weeks off. This
    system could realy make judging crowded times rather tricky.
    
    As far as the JC crowds we went 3-4 times last trip and found this the
    case once with an English speaking crowd. We put it of the time of day
    late afternoon of real Summer smoker. We had just re-entered the park
    after our mid-day chillout at the pool but most of these folks looked
    pretty fried IMHO. The strangest thing I find is this is one of the
    oldest low tech rides but has some of the longest lines in this section
    of the park, but what do I know.
    
    We also found that the help seemed more than adequate in their roles.
    The only problem we had was one breakfast at the Disney Inn with a
    rather flustered waitress, but everone has a bad day. Even at WDW.
    
    I also agree about the kid pushing parents. But what are you going to
    do not everyone can be perfect like us. Right? ;-)
    
    steve

    Judy,
    
    I must complement you on your use of time during your trip. I think we
    can chock it up to experience. Firsttimers need to read Birnbaum.
    
    It seems to me that Body Wars doesn't seem to be a big favorite. I've
    seen/heard few good words on it....including my kids. It's a wonder the
    line is so long.
    
    You mentioned the fireworks at MGM. Are they still doing "Sorcery in
    the Sky" and a salute to Fantasia?
    
    I agree with you regarding your comments about the Jungle Cruise. We
    always had a lively group which helped. The same can be said for HDD.
    
    YOur comments on the Anacomical Players at Wonders of Life is also
    seconded by yours truly. Our players were lively and really made the
    show enjoyable.
    
    Arrggghh!!! Everyone talks about the great food at The Land. Never got
    a chance to try it....next time.
    
    I guess one of the least crowded spots to watch the parades is in front
    of the Hall of Presidents. YOu mentioned it was crowded and my comment
    is that the time of day had a lot to do with it. We were in the parks
    at that time once during our trip...and that was only see the parade.
    
    The TTC is probably always jammed in the morning....WDW bussed bring
    the resort guests right to the front gate. It makes a BIG difference.
    
    20K Leagues, Haunted Mansion, and all of TommorrowLand need updating as
    far as this Disneyholic is concerned.
    
    Finally, your comment about trying to have your picture taking with the
    characters reminds me of our visit to Mickey's Starland last year. My
    son and daughter are patiently waiting for Winnie the Pooh and finally
    get with him, one on each side, when a kid pops in front AND POSES.
    
    Good report.
    
    Mike 

    re -.1
    
    The TTC was much less crowded on Monday--in fact, TMK was much more
    pleasant the whole day.
    
    re: MGM
    
    We forgot to include our impressions of the new park. We thought it was
    okay, but needs more attractions and needs to be bigger. If Star Tours
    was in EPCOT, we probably wouldn't bother to visit MGM again.

    re: -.2
    
    oops, forgot, yes, Sorcery In The Sky  for the MGM fireworks.

The main reason for the long lines at the Jungle Cruise is that it is a
very slow loading ride.  It takes a while for people to get off and the
next batch of people to get on.  They also like to maintain some distance
between the boats, so that the surprises aren't ruined by seeing or overhearing
the boat ahead of you.

Compare this to the Pirates of the Carribean, right next door, where there are
multiple loading lanes, people get on as the previous guests get off, and
they don't care if the boats pile up next to each other.

   Gary

    We also found some of the kids/parents amazingly rude around
    characters.  We insisted that our kids wait in line patiently, by
    themselves, while we would stay out in front of the characters to get
    pictures.  On several occasions, either kids would barge right in front,
    or parents would insert kids right in front, as if no one else were
    there.  Usually our kids would turn around and give us an anguished
    look, but we reassured them that they would get their chance, and
    should be polite even if others weren't (usually saying this loudly
    enough so that the offenders could hear).  On one occasion, this didn't
    work, as a group of @$&#&@&s pushed in front of our kids to see Goofy, and
    immediately after them Goofy took a break before our kids had reached
    the front of the line.  Fortunatly, we were able to
    get pictures with Goofy at another location later in the day.
    
    Cheers,
    Ken
                         

also re: 237.14 The Steinhardts trip report

Ken,
	Your trip report made my day!  I had one of those "wonder why I ever
got up" kind of days, until I dialed in to catch up on some work and took
a break to read your report.  I feel like I've had a mini vacation!

Thank you!!!

Joey Hanlon

    also also re: 237.14, Ken's Mega Trip Report.
    
    
    This has caused real problems with the Whitaker ear, as I spent most of
    yesterday, and will spend most of today, ringing around for cheap
    flights .... after reading the report, the bug has struck and I don't
    think I can wait until September to go .....
    
    Current best price is around 279 pounds, as we just missed a 205
    fly-drive deal (curses!).
    
    As you caused this "problem" Ken, what's the chance of helping us out
    by sending the 70-quid difference ?  :-)
    
    Thanks for a great read,
    
    
    Andy.
    

	237.14 Made my WEEK.  I have had the 'bug' bad enough of late and now
I don't think I can control myself any longer.  I'm going to submit a proposal
(trip justification if you will) to the wife this weekend to go a year from
now!!  Any suggestions for some good natured arm twisting maneuvers?  
	After the descriptions of the Adventurer's Club I've got to try the 
place, it sounds like quite a time.

Tom

    Hey, thanks for the feedback!
    
    re 227.63: Len, You are absolutely right about the Fort Wilderness
    buses, as we learned...  
    
    Yes, we were first timers to the Hoop-De-Doo, and as you surmised,
    indeed it was the eraly show (the warm-up), but we'll be back!
    
    My wife agrees with your assesment of the Tiki Birds, which is why
    we didn't take in the Tiki Birds this trip.
    
    We never got our Dole Whip!  The lines were always too long.  Maybe
    that should tell us something.... 
    
    I did notice the extra bells after Miss Tilley's stack blows, but
    didn't know their meaning until your explanation, thanks!
    
    Re 227.65:  Sorry Andy, after last week, I don't have 70-quid to
    send anymore!
    
    Re 227.66: Tom, as for arm-twisting manuevers, try these (they worked
    for us):
    		- It's only money
    		- This is real life, not a dress rehersal, and you only
    		  go around once, etc.
    		- If we make the reservations now, by the time we go we'll
    		  figure out some way to pay for it (I'm still working on
    		  the answer to this one...).
    		- The kids are only 6 years old once, and I remember how
    		  badly I wanted to go to Disneyland when I was 6, but
    		  couldn't.
    		- It is the only place on earth where you can
    		  can loudly say "Kangaloosh!" without being thought
    		  strange (in the Adventurer's Club).
    
    Re 227.64: Joey, Glad to make your day!
    
    
    Cheers,
    Ken
    

RE: Note 237.14    -< The Steinhardts 5/10 - 5/17 >-


>        This was the earliest morning, up at 6:00, load the van, take
>        a few final  pictures of the CBR, then over to the Polynesian
>        for Minnie's Menehune  Character Breakfast at the Tangaroa
>        Terrace.  Just about everything that  anyone could imagine is
>        on the buffet.  Everything but...Banana Stuffed French  Toast! 
>        Per all of the comments in here, we figured that we had to try
>        it, so  Eva and I ordered a serving to split between
>        ourselves, in addition to the  buffet.


        I have some questions regarding this character breakfast.  Can
        you attend the character breakfast and only order off the menu
        or must you buy the buffet?

        We do not care for buffet breakfasts, but we love the banana
        stuffed french toast and character breakfasts.   It would be
        nice if we could get both at the same time.
    

We went to this breakfast two years ago and we had a choice between the
buffet or the menu items.  I'm not sure what it's like now, but at the
time they were very flexible.

Joey.

    I just called the Tangaroa terrace and was told that each person who
    orders off the menu without getting the buffet, will be charged a $3.00
    entertainment fee.

    We were there 23rd May and were not offered a menu.  We therefore
    assumed that the buffet was all there was.  Guess you just have to ask.
    
    Trip report still in preparation by the way.
    
         Nick

    re: -1
    
    Yes, you have to ask, they assume that you are there for the buffet,
    but gladly took our order for the banana stuffed french toast when we
    asked.
    
    Cheers,
    Ken
    

    How much is the buffet breakfast?  I'm doing my budget now for when we
    go.  I was planning about $10 per person for breakfast.  I definately
    plan to go to the character breakfast at the Poly.
    
    Thanks

    Right on target - $9.95 for adults, $6.95 kids.  Tax and tip extra.
    
    Regards,   Nick

    Nick,
    
    I'm glad you made those comments about the resorts. There are those who
    have never stayed "on the property" and there are those who have stayed
    only "on the property". 
    
    Those who have done both can appreciate the difference and the
    advantages to being a resort guest.
    
    That bit of info regarding the 5-day Super Pass brings another rule to
    the forefront "Always ask if you're not sure". There are policies which
    are not always communicated as well as we would hope and you never know
    when they may change...it's good to check.
    
    Ponchos....bring your own unless you want to spend extra $$$ for the 
    luxury of having a Disney logo on your back. If you bring your own it
    makes it easier to spot your family.
    
    DEC T-shirts...I'll think about bringing one next time....never know 
    when you'll bump into a noter.
    
    I could identify with your frustration in trying to get to TMK that
    morning and it took awhile from the TTC. There are some alternatives to
    the monorail but one (busses to the main gate terminals) requires you
    to be a resort guest and the other involves taking the boat from the
    TTC to TMK.
    
    Peter Pan, Snow White, and Mr. Toad has lines all day line. I remember
    passing them at 11:30 one night and there were lines that were around
    20 minutes long.
    
    Glad you got to see the ELP. I have friends who have never seen it
    because they've never been at the parks on a day/evening that had the
    parade scheduled.
    
    I'll miss it.
    
    58 MPH for Splash Mountain? Hmmm....I may pass on that.
    
    As for your comments on peak crowd times I'd say it goes with the
    territory. That is....those of us who like to go during those times
    when everything is operating and the parks are at peak operating hours
    realize the lines may be longer and hopefully with a little creative
    timing we can keep the waiting down.
    
    Mike

    re: -1
    
    Mike,
    
    Very good point about bringing your own ponchos.  We lost Adam very
    briefly at one point and were beginning to despair of ever finding him
    again since everybody looked exactly the same.  No chance of spotting
    your lost loved ones in the distance!
    
           Nick

    It was a sea of yellow when it rained.

    You must have been in MGM. The ponchos from Epcot are clear plastic.
    
    Linda

    re -1
    Oh, I beg to differ, just got back and the ponchos we bought at Epcot
    were "Fireman Yellow".  We loved them! My Sis and here family borrowed
    them for a backpacking trip in the Sierras. Hope the bears don't like
    them as well!
    
    BTW, my husband and I are both native Southern Californians and have 
    visited Disneyland more times than we can count, the ponchos are a
    great idea.  1) It NEVER rains AT ALL in the summer here, I'm sure
    Disneyland doesn't that kind of inventory of ponchos to sell - even if
    it ever did! 2) Being wimps about the humidity, [how can you guys compare
    Florida with us?] we had our best day when it rained all day. We didn't
    have to go back and escape into our air conditioned room. 3) The ponchos
    kept us dry much better than my umbrella (which I had to borrow from a
    neighbor - I don't own one) as well as the camera, diaper bag and BABY!
    
    Gotta stop now, or I'll use up all the stuff for my trip report!
    
    Rochelle
     

    They changed the ponchos since I bought mine in December 1989.
    
    Linda

    
I decided not to brave the hot sun during lunch and went over some numbers
in here.

If anyone has noticed there has been quite a dropoff in activity in this
conference. This is due to the obvious.

Look at these numbers regarding trip reports:

Note    Title                   Replies by 20-JUN    Total Replies

 34     1989 Trip Reports              45               99
183     1990 Trip Reports              24               54
237     1991 Trip Reports              15               15 (projection: 33)

Then there are these numbers on the sign-ins:

Note    Title                     Replies by 20-JUN   Total Replies

158     Sign-in 1990 WDW Visitors       83                 96
221     Sign-in 1991 WDW Visitors       62                 72(projection)
243     Sign-in 1992 WDW Visitors        6   (no projections)

Note 158 was started on 23-JAN-1990.
Note 221 was started on  5-SEP-1990 but had 24 fewer replies than note 158.
Note 243 was started on  3-FEB-1991 so it has a ways to go.

Some other interesting info:

54% of those who signed in for 1990 trips went before July 1.
48% of those who signed in for 1991 trips will go before July 1.
    
Let's hope things turn around real fast for all of us because these numbers
are a sad commentary on the economy.

Mike

       

	RE: ponchos....

	We bought only two of the clear ones for our rainstorm.  
	Each of our two children walked under an adults' poncho as it was 
	late and we were leaving after dinner.  It was real easy to spot each 
	other as evidenced during a conversation I had with a passerby:

	Passerby: 'Which of those ponchos up there are you talking to?'

	Me: ' The other one with four legs, just like me.'  

re: Note 237.15 by TRUCKS::COOPER_N - Nick Cooper

>        Off to buy the 5-day Super-passes.  We did not get these
>        earlier as we had no intention of visiting the theme parks
>        over the weekend, and we did not want the  7 day period for
>        Typhoon Lagoon etc to start earlier than necessary.  We did
>        determine, however that it did not matter.  In fact the seven
>        days does not start until the first time the pass is used at
>        MK, MGM or EPCOT.  So you could use the pass for nothing but
>        Typhoon Lagoon, River Country etc as long as you like before
>        your first visit to the the other three.  Maybe common
>        knowledge, but the cast member who told us this said it was a
>        closely kept secret.

        There seems to be a difference between official policy and
        actual practice.  I called WDW information about this and they
        said that the 7 day "superpass" portion of the ticket begins
        on the earlier of:

           a) The first date stamped on the theme park section of the
           ticket (ie, MK, EPCOT, or MGM).

                                  -  or -

           b) The date stamped on the "superpass" section of the
           ticket.

        I remember from last year that there was a place to stamp the
        date on the "superpass" section of the ticket, but I have
        talked to people recently that don't remember this. Maybe
        someone with a current "superpass" can verify if there is a
        place to stamp.  Anyway, it seems that in your case, the
        people at Typhoon Lagoon did not stamp the ticket on your
        first day.
                 
>        Wished we had saved time by parking at the Contemporary and
>        taking the short walk direct to the gate, but found out later
>        from our friends, who tried it, that there is a hidden
>        security post.  They were turned around and sent back by
>        monorail.

        I don't understand this.  Last summer there was a walkway
        between the Contemporary and the MK which we used a couple of
        times.  Is this now closed to pedestrian traffic and if so,
        why?
    

    RE: 237.15 Nick Cooper Trip Report
    
    Hey Nick, by any chance was that you at Typhoon Lagoon on 5/14 that
    spoke to my wife about putting your camcorder on our table under the
    hut, to get it out of the rain?????  She mentioned that the person with
    the camcorder had a definite UK "vocal inflection".  If so, we were
    better than just a few yards from you, we were standing next to you, with
    our 3 year old son fast asleep on a towel strectched over two chairs.  
    
    Does this sound familiar?
    
    Cheers,
    Ken
    

    re: .83
    
    Superpasses - I don't remember if there was a space for the date, but I
    will check the old passes when I get home tonight.  I do know that ours
    was certainly not date stamped.  There was a space for a signature (to
    stop you giving the pass to someone else while you go to Sea World for
    the day presumably), but we never signed them, and nobody objected.
    
    Sorry for any confusion over the Contemporary - MK walkway Jim.  Its
    still there, but for resort guests only - which we were not.  This is
    where the security post came into play.
    
    re: .84
    
    Nice if it were Ken, but it wasn't me who spoke to your good lady
    because my camcorder was securely stowed in a locker at the time.  The
    family with small child asleep on towel does conjure up a familiar
    scene though ..
    
                 Nick

    .85 follow-up
    
    I checked the passes - no space for a date stamp, just a signature. 
    However, I did notice that they had been date stamped (totally
    illegibly) on the rear a couple of times, presumably on entry
    somewhere.  Don't know where, I don't remember, and we only had two 
    date stamps although we used them on at least 5 occasions. I do know
    that they were not date stamped at time of purchase.
    
    I guess it is safer to do as I suggested and ask before you make any
    plans.  As I said, we certainly managed to use them on the 8th day
    without problems, but maybe we got lucky?
    
        Nick
    
    P.S. Have a good trip Jim!!

    re: .85/.86
    
    Sorry, positively the last word on this superpass validity for the
    "other" disney attractions.  In a moment of inspiration, I actually
    read the wise words on the back of the appropriate section of the pass:
    
    "This portion of the SUPER PASS is vaild for admission to the following
    locations for 7 days from the date stamped in the "First Day" block on
    the front of this Super Pass (but not later than February 29, 1992):
    
                o  Typhoon Lagoon
                o  River Country
                o  Discovery Island
                o  Pleasure Island  "
    
    Now the first day block is the first of the 5 used to record your
    visits to MK, EPCOT or MGM.  Therefore it appears that you can use your
    pass for the other parks for as long as you like (until Feb next year),
    but only for seven days following your first visit to one of the 3 main
    parks.
    
    Nick

]
    
    Here is the latest on trip report numbers:

    Note    Title                   Replies by 30-JUL  Total Replies

     34     1989 Trip Reports              58               99
    183     1990 Trip Reports              28               54
    237     1991 Trip Reports              22               22 (projection: 33)

    Then there are these numbers on the sign-ins:

   Note    Title                     Replies by 30-JUL   Total Replies

   158     Sign-in 1990 WDW Visitors       87               96
   221     Sign-in 1991 WDW Visitors       71               78 (projection)
   243     Sign-in 1992 WDW Visitors        8          (no projection)

Note 158 was started on 23-JAN-1990.
Note 221 was started on  5-SEP-1990 but had 24 fewer replies than note 158.
Note 243 was started on  3-FEB-1991 so it has a long way to go.

Some other interesting info:

54% of those who signed in for 1990 trips went before July 1.
41% of those who signed in for 1991 trips went before July 1.
75% of those who signed in for 1992 trips will go before July 1.    



Mike

       

    I once knew a guy like you.........
    

    Well Iwas working late last night and during some compiles I managed to
    pull these numbers together. I guess I dhould have put them in last
    night.
    
    ;^)

    Mike,
    
    Great report. It gave me the vicarious feeling of being there with
    you.
    
    I like the Sea world offer of a "weekly pass".
    
    Is "Diamond Double-Cross" still performed at the Theater of the Stars?
    
    Also, I share your feelings regarding CBR and MArtinique and have
    requested Martinique as a preference next time.
    
    I didn't notice any details on any dinner shows you may have attended.
    I guess they were uneventful.
    
    I also did not notice any mention of "Streetmosphere" antics. Were
    there any special guests at MGM while you were in Orlando?
    
    I'll bet the person who pulled the frozen choc. bananas was the same
    one who pulled the Monte Christos.
    
    Enjoyed your report.
    
    Mike

    Mike,
    
    	    There's too many Mikes in this conference! Some of your 
    queries are against Mike Horrigan's trip report, the others are 
    against mine.
    
    	    I deliberately didn't enter too much about Sea World or 
    Universal, cos this is the Disney Note, but I generally felt that 
    they were pale imitations of Disney. There is probably only the 
    one sensible way of doing things in a theme park, but it all felt 
    so 'samey' - From going through the admission gates, collecting 
    park guides and schedules, joining lines, pre-show areas and 
    displays, even the pre-show patter sounded like it had been lifted 
    from some Disney attraction - Disney-like, but without the magic. 
    A comment we overheard on the way out of Sea World seems to sum up 
    where it's gone wrong - 12(ish) year old to his Mom when asked how 
    he'd enjoyed it "Some of it was OK, but it was mainly fish and 
    stuff!".  That's their winning angle, they are all about 'fish and 
    stuff', and they do that extremely well. They should build on the 
    difference, you can't pet dolphins, feed rays or encounter 
    'serious' sharks in Disney, but you can see much better firework 
    and laser shows.
    
    	    The goals that we had when we went, as well as getting our 
    fix of the parks and seeing any new attractions, were to check out 
    the hotels and resorts, and take advantage of the variety and 
    style of 'eating opportunities' that are on offer. We met one 
    goal, checking out all the old and new places to stay, and 
    confirming that CBR and FW suit our 'vacation lifestyle', PO would 
    be an adequate replacement for CBR, but the others were too formal 
    for us to be completely comfortable (OK, I admit it! We're slobs 
    on vacation!). We failed on the eating side, we did eat more 
    formally than before, and avoided a lot of the 'fast food' traps, 
    but due to a mixture of 'picky eaters', and not wanting to plan 
    too far ahead, we didn't use the 'Resort Guest' benefit of booking 
    2-3 days ahead of the masses. (Next Time!)
    
    	    We didn't notice any 'special guests' while at MGM, but 
    they probably wouldn't be special to us, we still run 1-2 years 
    behind you on TV shows. The Streetmosphere people were around, but 
    less pushy than before. They waited to be involved, rather than 
    rushing up for your autograph, or signing you up for a contract. 
    Perhaps they've had some feedback about it.
    
    Mike.

    I'm not sure if this is the right note to ask this question.  If not,
    someone point me in the right direction...
    
    I just returned from WDW and would like to enter my trip report, but am
    having problems...  I've tried to do it twice, now, and both times, I
    got cut off while typing.  My report, is rather long, is this the
    reason?  Am I under some kind of time cruch or somehting? Anyway, why
    can't I enter my report?  
    
    Becky

    Rep to <<< Note 227.96 by DPDMAI::MATTSON "It's always something!" >>>

>    having problems...  I've tried to do it twice, now, and both times, I
>    got cut off while typing.  My report, is rather long, is this the
>    reason?  Am I under some kind of time cruch or somehting? Anyway, why
>    can't I enter my report?  

    Becky,
    
    Most  likely  the  network  is dropping you for any number of  reasons.

    When ever I have something longer than 20 lines of text to  enter here,
    I always create the document first in my account, recheck it for errors
    (spelling etc.).  Then once  I'm  satisfied  with it, I enter notes and
    depending  on  the  editor  I'm using  (usually  SEDT)  I  perform  the
    necessary  keystrokes  for a 'included document' (gold G),  takes  only
    sec's vs minutes/hours.

    Unless it's something like this then I type away in notes, and what you
    see is what you get ;^).
        
    Claude

    RE 227.96 - or if you type it ahead of time and get in the correct
    location where you want to reply to an existing note you can do
    a:
    		REPLY/NOEDIT filename
    
    -peter

    If you are a captive user of All-Un-Done (TM), you can still do 
    the same i.e. prepare the article in advance and then submit it as 
    a Reply. After typing RE, hit Next Screen and it will ask you for 
    the folder and filename. 
    Unless you are only entering a few lines 'on the fly', any of the 
    last three replies are a more efficient and economical of using 
    the network, and you still have a copy of your masterpiece to 
    resubmit when you get the "Network Partner Exited" message.
    
    Mike in Warrington 
    Who_can_now_be_as_boringly_long_winded_as_he_likes!

    thanks, I appreciate the help.  I'll give it a try!
    
    Becky

    and of course the infamous REPLY/LAST command
    to avoid losing all the text you have typed in.

    
    It looks like the majority of the trips have been taken this year. It
    will be interesting to see how the numbers end up. 
        
    Here is the latest on trip report numbers:

    Note    Title                   Replies by 14-SEPT  Total Replies

     34     1989 Trip Reports              62               99
    183     1990 Trip Reports              34               54
    237     1991 Trip Reports              31               49 (projection)

    Then there are these numbers on the sign-ins:

   Note    Title                     Replies by 14-SEPT   Total Replies

   158     Sign-in 1990 WDW Visitors       90               96
   221     Sign-in 1991 WDW Visitors       75               81 (projection)
   243     Sign-in 1992 WDW Visitors       12              (no projection)

Note 158 was started on 23-JAN-1990.
Note 221 was started on  5-SEP-1990 but had 24 fewer replies than note 158.
Note 243 was started on  3-FEB-1991 so it has a long way to go.


Mike
   

Re: Note 227.93  

Jim,

Sorry for such a delay in responding. I checked out of the conference 
for a while and only just started to catch up...

>>    Mike,
>>
>>  I have a couple of questions.  First, you say that your kids are 6
>>    and 8, and then you mentioned:
>>
>>        >Don't miss the Shark Reef if you go to Typhoon Lagoon. Both my
>>        >kids loved it and are bragging to their friends...
>>
>>    Last summer, the rules were that you must be 10 years old to use
>>    the Shark Reef.   I was able to get my oldest daughter (then 8 1/2)
>>    through, but I can't imagine them thinking a 6 year old was 10. 
>>    Have they changed the rules?

I saw no signs restricting the reef by age. There may have been a height 
limit, but I'm not even sure of that. The only thing I remember is that they
needed to be accompanied by an adult. Anyway, my son does not look anywhere
near 10 and was in plain site when we got our equipment, so I have to assume 
they've changed the rules.

>>    In your report, you mention the following:
>>
>>
>>	>I vote for 
>>	>the 50's Prime Time Cafe at MGM. Not for the food, but for combined 
>>	>food, fun, and price. The waiters and waitresses (i.e., actors and 
>>	>actresses) are great, and the decor puts you right back into a 1950's 
>>	>kitchen. The TVs near each table showing clips from the old shows 
>>	>tops it off. Book a table as soon as you enter the park.
>>	
>>    Did you realize that since you were staying on site (also if you
>>    have an annual passport) that you could make reservations up to 3
>>  days in advance by phone?
  
Yes, but if you remember my trip report my son broke out with chicken pox
so our schedule was in disarray. We went the day after he was declared 
noncontagious and by the time I got around to making reservations the booking 
office was closed. I also tried in the morning, but I found out that even if
you are a guest, they will not accept same-day reservations. 
    
Mike

    
    It's been slow in here lately. With 7 weeks to go in 1991 here are the
    latest numbers:
        

    Note    Title                   Replies by 14-Nov  Total Replies

     34     1989 Trip Reports              72               99
    183     1990 Trip Reports              45               55
    237     1991 Trip Reports              35               49 (projection)

    Then there are these numbers on the sign-ins:

   Note    Title                     Replies by 14-Nov   Total Replies

   158     Sign-in 1990 WDW Visitors       96               96
   221     Sign-in 1991 WDW Visitors       81               88 (projection)
   243     Sign-in 1992 WDW Visitors       16               80 (projection)


The "sign-in" notes were started earlier and earlier. Note 158 was started
on 23-JAN-1990. Note 221 was started on 5-SEP-1990 but had 24 fewer replies
than note 158. Note 243 was started on 3-FEB-1991 so it has a long way to go.
    
It will be interesting to see how 243 picks up as we get into 1992. The
Summer of '92 a.k.a as WDW 20th Summer Celebration should heat up. 

Mike
   

    This is in regard to Andy Whitaker's report. Andy were you kidding
    about that audio-animatronic figure when discussing your "Voices of
    Liberty" visit in the American Adventure? 
    
    If not then on which side of the pavillion was said figure?
    
    Mike

    Mike,
    
    I have two apologies for you:
    
    1) Sorry to take so long to reply, a two-week training course
       in Ireland and a heavy work load has negated notes reading 
       for quite a while.
    
    2) Sorry for mis-leading you, I have re-read the relevant bit
       of my trip report and can see that it gives rise to confusion.
       The audio-animatronic event I was referring to was when one of
       the figures 'walks' up some stairs ... which I believe occurs 
       during the actual show.
       
       I've seen this show twice, and read about this feat of animatronic
       wizzadry in this notes file, but have missed it on both occasions.
    
       So I was rueing the fact that I'd missed it again, rather than
       talking about a new figure walking up stairs in the pre-show lobby.
    
    
    Hope this clears it up.
    
    
    
    Cheers,
    
    Andy (who is winding-down for the outrageously long Xmas holidays 
          us lucky Brits get!)

    In 237.41
    
>About 4:00 we took the bus over to MGM to have our pictures taken for our 
>Annual Passports. These tickets were one of the things we did right. The
>price was approx. $184 including tax and the MKC discount. We never had to 
>hesitate about using a day's admission to just go on one or two things or see
>fireworks. We also didn't have to worry about getting our hands stamped, etc. 
>Some of the literature in the room mentioned that 6, 7, and 8 day passes were 
>now available, but there were no prices mentioned. For that length of time, I
>think an Annual Passport makes sense. 

    Linda, sounds like you paid the first time rate for a anual and not the
    renewal, or you  definetely  didn't get the Typhoon Lagoon rider ($52).
    Anyway the 5 ($145  aprox)  and  6  day  ($162  aprox) passes are Super
    Passes which include TL/PI/RC, so I would imagine that the 7 and 8 days
    are also.  I beleive that  if  the  7/8 day passes are also superpasses
    then the price is probably cheaper than  the Anual with the riders.
    
    For those folks who don't plan on making a career out  of  visiting WDW
    several times  a  year,  and are staying less than 9 nights and plan to
    see the MK/EPCOT/MGM/TL/PI/RC the 6/7/8 day superpasses might just make
    sense for them, unless  they  want  to  pay extra to have their picture
    taken.

    However if all their going  to  do  is  MK/EPCOT/MGM  and don't plan on
    going to PI/TL/RC than the Annaul might make better sense.
    
    It all boils down to what you'l be doing.
        
    Claude

    
    
    
    RE: -.1
    
    You're right, these were first time passports with no riders.
    
    
    Linda

    re: last couple
    
    Another reason to buy the Superpasses (n days) is that even if you
    don't use all the days of availability on your trip, the remaining days
    are "good forever" and can be used years hence. A definite plus for the
    occassional (versus perennial) visitor to the World.
    
    Tim

    If the 6-day Super Pass is $164 and the Annual Pass is $175 then what
    would the 7 or 8 day Super Pass go for?
    
    Mike

    7 for  about  184  and 8 for around $200 would be my guess.
    
    Claude

    One advantage of the Annual Pass that has not been mentioned in this
    discussion is the substantial discount on rates at many of the
    on site hotels.  It makes it more complicated to figure out which
    is best.  Should someone who wants to stay a week on site go with an 
    Annual Pass and pay extra for TL/PI/RC or go with the Super Pass
    and the MKC discount (10-30% depending on the time of year)?

    see note 150.* for more than you ever wanted to know about annual
    passports.

    
Unless some late trip reports come in here are the final totals:

 Note  Date Entered  Title              Replies by 13-Jan  Total Replies

  34   28-Feb-1989  1989 Trip Reports         0               99
 183   10-Apr-1990  1990 Trip Reports         0               55
 237    3-Jan-1991  1991 Trip Reports         0               42 
 290    3-Jan-1992  1992 Trip Reports         0                0

Then there are these numbers on the sign-ins:

 Note Date Entered Title                    Replies by 13-Jan Total Replies

 158  23-Jan-1990  Sign-in 1990 WDW Visitors      NA              96
 221   5-Sep-1990  Sign-in 1991 WDW Visitors      22              84 
 243   3-Feb-1991  Sign-in 1992 WDW Visitors      25              25

Only about 55-60% of those signing in have been filing trip reports. Keep
in mind that trip reports are probably the best up-to-date source for info
and anything you feel helpful should be included.

On the positive side 25 people have already indicated they are going in
1992. This is 3 more than last year at this time.
 
Mike
   

    RE:  Ed's trip report.
    
    My condolences!  You had one of those Murphy's Law vacations!
    Don't give up - Try WDW again!  It can only be better right?
    
    :)
    
    Kathy
    

    One thing I forgot to mention is that we did NOT like the 5 day
    superpasses.  we had 8 days.  We like to take a day's rest inbetween
    each activity day.  With the superpasses, we felt like we weren't
    getting enough if we sit back.  Its kinda like going to a buffee
    and only going down the line once.
    I'd only buy them again if we had 14 days.
    ed
    

    Ed,
    
    Going 14 days sound like a case for Annual Passes.
    
    * * *
    
    Regarding Frank McGowan's trip report....Frank you may be the first
    person who has ever mentioned "Trip to Mars" as one of his/her favorite
    attractions.
    
    Mike
    

    After reading 290.4, I  had  a  tough  time  deciding if it should stay
    there or be moved to  topic 39.* "Dining around the World", I thought I
    was reading a reastauraunt review ;^).
   

Like it?  Claude, I'd say he ate it up!!!   (-:

				Nigel

    Hee, hee... yup!
    
    

    re:  237.45
    
    Great trip report!  You really added some good suggestions/opinions as
    well as giving us a fix!
    
    Kathy
    

    I agree. My la75 printer is getting a workout. My wife can read all the
    notes I have been bringing home on the flight down.

    Ellen,
    
    Great job on your trip report. It was really worth waiting for. There
    are two areas that I particularly noticed.
    
      o I don't understand the problem with the AP's and the handstamp. If
        you didn't receive the handstamp then why would there be a problem 
        when you have the AP?
    
      o Re: The Fireworks Factory. I'm glad you mentioned your experience
        there because it is (maybe was) on my "To Do" list for this Summer.
        Here's hoping we get more input on FF before then.
    
    Mike

    
    Handstamp/annual passports...
    
    RE: .124, and the trip report a couple of notes back...
    
    I think the problem is trying to go thru the re-entry gate with
    	no handstamp with/without an annual passport.
    
    I believe the re-entry gate personnel are required to look for the
    handstamp. And if you don't have one you get the "Tsk, Tsk" message.
    Furthermore, without the handstamp, they might actually have people
    entering the park (annual passports) without being counted at all!
    Can you get a refund on an annual passport if it's never been
    used? If they have no record of you entering any of their parks?
    This might be what they are trying to protect against?
    "The entry-lines too long so I'll bypass it and use the re-entry
    with my annual passport and tell them I didn't get a handstamp."
    4+ day passes they check that today's date is also on the pass; so you
    can't sneak in thru re-entry without at least today's date on the
    pass.
    
    
    We got that the first time we went from one park to another. So for
    	the remainder of the trip we just went to the normal entry gate.
        and they scanned our annual passports said have a nice day Annie
    	Not "you've already entered, you'll have to go to reentry to
        get back in".... It's easier then having to get
    	a handstamp to satisify the re-entry personnel. I'm on vacation
    	I don't want to hear "tsk, tsk you didn't get your handstamped".
    
    My assumption... They are scanning the cards numbers; therefore they
    	are keeping track of who is going in; if they see the same
    	annual passport number in the same day, maybe they don't count
    	the additional times; otherwise they are counting me more than
        once; again, not my problem; Re-entry doesn't seem to scan the
    	cards; they check for handstamps and dates on passes, only?
    
    		- Annie
     

    RE: 237.45
    
    Ellen, Indeed a great report, I got so psyched I just made reservations
    back at the CBR for May '93! (and the HDD)
    
    re:  Adventurer's Club - Kungaloosh!, and don't forget to dress for the
    hunt.
    
    re: Firework's Factory - Next time try Portabello Yacht Club at PI,
    I've been there three times and all three times the food, service, and
    quality were outstanding.  I've heard several complaints regarding the
    Firework's Factory while at PI from people that had just eaten there.
    
    Cheers,
    Ken
    

Well, we found Fireworks Factory acceptable enough to go back a second
time.  Never any problem with waiting or smoke.  Our main reason for
returning is that it was easy for my mother to get something she liked
and could eat, being on
a low salt diet.  While I wouldn't rave about the place, I certainly
enjoyed my meals there.

I suppose that if you're from a region of the country where barbeque is
a religion, you'll reject any that doesn't match your expectations.  While I
will do that for other dishes, in the case of barbeque I care more about
taste and quality than about authenticity.  And my meat both times was
excellent.

With all the signs I saw mentioning the Florida Indoor Clean Air Act, I'd
stand firm about keeping smoking out of non-smoking sections; my guess is that
the law must have some teeth.

   Gary

    re: .124 & .125 - On the handstamp issue
    	
    	Now that I think about it, we never did try to re-enter with our
    	APs at anything other than a re-entry gate.  The trick may be to
    	just pick any line other than re-entry.  We just assumed that if
    	they tried to put our passports through the turnstiles more than
    	once a day, they would be rejected.  Apparently, that is not the
    	case.
    
    re: .127 - On the Fireworks Factory
    
    	My major problem with the restaurant (and I realize that this is
    	not clear in the trip report) is the food quality for the price
    	being charged.  If you followed the report closely, you might have
    	noticed that aside from Victoria and Albert's, it was the most
    	expensive dinner we had.  I do not mind paying higher prices for
    	food as long as it lives up to the price.  If the cost at Fireworks
    	Factory had been half as much, you wouldn't have heard me
    	complaining so loudly.  BTW, I do think that it would be a great
    	place to have drinks and snacks while at PI, as our appetizers were
    	quite enjoyable and our drinks well prepared and quite good sized.
    	(However, if you want to taste REAL crabcake, and will be in the
    	Baltimore-Washington area [perhaps on one's way down to WDW, Jim?]
    	give me a call and I will point you in the right direction...)
    
    Ellen  

    Here and I always thought that the reason they insisted on the
    handstamp was to keep identical twins from passing the AP back through
    the gate.
    
    tom

Here are some encouraging stats:

 Note Date Entered Title                    Replies by 12-Mar Total Replies

 158  23-Jan-1990  Sign-in 1990 WDW Visitors      45              96
 221   5-Sep-1990  Sign-in 1991 WDW Visitors      33              84 
 243   3-Feb-1991  Sign-in 1992 WDW Visitors      48              48

    Already 48 replies to the '92 Sign-in note but we must realize that
    note has been around for 13 months.
    
    Still it's nice to see a rise in the number of noters going. That means
    more trip reports and more info on "The Happiest Place on Earth".
 
Mike
   

    Re: Jean Raymond's trip report
    
    Nice report Jean. I was interested in that night where you did both
    MGM's "Sorcery..." and TMK's "Fantasy...".
    
    You mentioned that you parked in the CR parking lot closest to Space
    Mountain and walked from there. How long of a walk was it?
    
    Mike

	Mike (re: .131),

	I was lucky in that, as I got to the corner of the Contemporary lot 
	closest to the MK entrance, someone pulled out of a parking space.
	From my car I'd say it was maybe a couple of hundred feet
	to the gate - my memory is less than a city block.
	(I remember thinking later it was closer than walking from 
	the Epcot bus stop to the Epcot gate, if that helps.)  That corner
	of the lot is a long way from the Contemp. hotel itself, though.

	It did make my trip to be able to catch all the fireworks!

	Thanks for the nice critique, Mike.  Glad I finally got around to
	entering the report!


					Happy trips to all!

					Jean

    Jean,
    
    It sounds much better than parking in TMK parking lot, something I 
    haven't done in 17 years. I usually go to the GF or CR and work my way 
    from there.
    
    Do you recall walking past the bus terminal that is to the right of
    TMK entrance?
    
    Mike

    I often park in the Contemprary lot and walk into the MK.  However,
    there is a security kiosk along the walkway, and whenever I walked in,
    they would request to see a WDW resort ID.  One time I showed the guard
    my annual passport and he said that I must show a resort ID.  Then I
    showed him my ID from the Y&BC and he let us go through.
    
    The walkway goes past the bus terminal you are talking about.

	Re: last few

	I don't remember the bus terminal, Mike.  As for the security kiosk,
	I *think* I vaguely remember it but it was either empty or the
	person was busy and I jogged on by without either of us noticing
	each other.  The cast members hadn't mentioned it.  This was after
	9:30 pm, remember...and on the verge of a slow time for WDW (between
	Thanksgiving and Christmas)...they may be more lax about things than
	during the day or have fewer people around to enforce rules.
	I also had no trouble driving into the lot - I seem
	to remember going through a gate of some sort, but, again there 
	didn't seem to be anyone around to question me.

	So you may have a hard time trying to park there during the day and
	going to TMK, but, from the way the cast members talked, this is common
	practice for fireworks and/or late night jaunts to TMK.

	I certainly appreciated the tip and did want to pass it on...sorry
	if it doesn't work out for anyone who tries it.  I would try only at
	night, myself...good luck!


						Jean

    
Latest and greatest trip trends:

 Note  Date Entered  Title              Replies by 5-Apr  Total Replies

  34   28-Feb-1989  1989 Trip Reports         25               99
 183   10-Apr-1990  1990 Trip Reports          4               55
 237    3-Jan-1991  1991 Trip Reports          6               42 
 290    3-Jan-1992  1992 Trip Reports          9                9

Then there are these numbers on the sign-ins:

   Note Date Entered Title                    Replies by 5-Apr Total Replies

   158  23-Jan-1990  Sign-in 1990 WDW Visitors      67              96
   221   5-Sep-1990  Sign-in 1991 WDW Visitors      48              84 
   243   3-Feb-1991  Sign-in 1992 WDW Visitors      53              53
    
    Hmmmm, are we talking an Economic Indicator? At this rate we may see as
    many noters going in '92 as did '90. We're getting towards the "busy
    season" (Mid-April thru Mid-August) so we may see an increase over the
    next few weeks.
 
    Mike
   

    Well, it looks like we throw the statistics in -.1 off by 1. The Carr
    family was supposed to leave yesterday morning for Disney World. When
    Susan and I arrived home from work on Friday, our daughter Linda 
    (who was to celebrate her 12th birthday today at WDW) was running a
    fever. My wife took her down to the local hospital to have her checked
    out. Diagnosis: mononucleosis. 

    We're obviously bummed out, as this was to be our first trip. One thing
    I should point out that worked in our favor was we bought trip
    cancellation insurance, so we won't suffer any financial loss over this.
    (The trip was a TNT package thru UniGlobe travel). All I can say is
    thank goodness we were smart enough to buy the insurance. And, it's a
    good thing we didn't make the trip and find out she's got mono from
    a Florida hospital. That surely would have been a vacation from hell.
    As we told our other 2 daughters, we're still going, it'll just have 
    to wait til Linda recuperates. 

    -Dom

    Make that -2 (re statistics)...
    
    Laurie and I decided we had to cancel the trip to WDW.  The
    airfares are just _too_ high (of course, last night I heard that
    they may be starting fare wars.)
    
    So we booked a cruise instead for our 10th anniversary. (-:
    We'll just have to save up for WDW's 25th! (and our 15th...)
    
    - John

    Claude I'm impressed.
    
    I have some questions, too.
    
    Was the Laundry Room at PO near any pools?
    
    Were there any requirements for Shark Reef? My son may want to do it
    but he's never snorkeled before.
    
    I don't recall if anyone ever mentioned if smoking was allowed in any
    of the Pleasure Island Clubs. Any info on this?
    
    Was the B&TB Stage Show packing in the crowds? I heard they had extra
    seats brought in due to it's popularity.
    
    Swordfish at Narcosse's - can you get it Cajun style?
    
    Superstar TV - This question is for everyone. Do they ever change what
    they do up on that stage or is everything the same all the time?
    
    Every time I've done Star Tours I've sat in the last row. Is it better
    as you are closer to the screen?
    
    You said you were to the left of UK for Illuminations. Did you feel
    this was a good spot to view the show?
    
    Other than BTTF what were the longest lines in Universal Studios?
    
    Which simulator style did you prefer....BTTF or the Hanna-Barbera way?
    
    Did you notice any road construction down there? Seems every time I go
    down they're building another road.
    
    Did you vote for "Person of the Century?"
    
    How would you compare the Food courts at CBR and DL to PO?
    
    Where did you stand for Spectro-Magic?
    
    Does Splash Mountain appear to have a lot of queueing space as
    indicated by someone else?
    
    Is Mel-Pee Wee back?
    
    Sounds like you never got a chance to eat at The Olive Garden. Did you?
    
    Did you notice if Squid (Calamare) was on the menu at Portobello?
    
    Did you notice if the 2-Day pass had been reinstated at TL?
    
    What did you eat at Prime Time? You should warn others if your entree
    wasn't so hot.
    
    That's all.
    
    Nice job....you're setting a good example for al the noters.
    
    Ken Kuscher...we're waiting for your report.
    
    Mike
    

    Rep to <<< Note 227.139 by VISUAL::SCOPA "I'd rather be in Orlando" >>>

>    Claude I'm impressed.

    you should be. ;^)
        
>    I have some questions, too.

    Figures, since I didn't pull a Jim Pappas and ask if there was anything
    you wanted me to find out for you  while  I  was  down there, so you'll
    bombard me now eh?
        
>    Was the Laundry Room at PO near any pools?

    Gee didn't you read my entry in the PO  note  or  my  Trip  Report  you
    bugged me for?  the Laundry/Pool Bar building seperate the Pool and Hot
    Tub.
        
>    Were there any requirements for Shark Reef? My son may want to do it
>    but he's never snorkeled before.

    Only you couldn't smoke.  Joking aside I don't remember anything  other
    that  the obvious requirement of being able to float and breath thru  a
    tube.    Greg  who  is  13  never  snorkeled  before  either and had no
    problems.
        
>    I don't recall if anyone ever mentioned if smoking was allowed in any
>    of the Pleasure Island Clubs. Any info on this?
 
    I saw folks with them damn  things  all  over.    Is it obvious I don't
    smoke?
       
>    Was the B&TB Stage Show packing in the crowds? I heard they had extra
>    seats brought in due to it's popularity.

    Yes every time I went by when  the  show was going on, there were folks
    standing in the back. As you refering to the 3 Bleachers in the back?
        
>    Swordfish at Narcosse's - can you get it Cajun style?
 
    I't wasn't cajun style, don't know if you can.
       
>    Superstar TV - This question is for everyone. Do they ever change what
>    they do up on that stage or is everything the same all the time?

    It would appear to be the same, based on the sets used.
        
>    Every time I've done Star Tours I've sat in the last row. Is it better
>    as you are closer to the screen?

    Based on my experience with Questor Ride at Bucsh Gardens Williamsburg,
    you want  to be in the middle to back, so as to see the screen clearly.
    First time on Questor we  had  front  row  and  I  was  having  trouble
    focusing on the screen and me with perfect vision (20/20).  Directly in
    the middle seems to be the less  violent,  while  the corners you realy
    feel the movements.
        
>    You said you were to the left of UK for Illuminations. Did you feel
>    this was a good spot to view the show?

    I Ain't telling, but I was up against the fence  in  a  spot  between 2
    trees.   They Best Spot is obviously opposite American Adventure so  as
    to  see  all  the countries when they light them up but that  fills  up
    rather quickly as you know.
        
>    Other than BTTF what were the longest lines in Universal Studios?

    BTTF  fopr  me  was  the shortest walked right on, since I had done  it
    early, but  KONG/Earthquake  were long.  We did ET around 11:30 and the
    wait was like 5 mins.  Actually I had meant to put this in the reports,
    seemed like all the  parks  were  only  using about 1/3rd to 1/2 of the
    queuing areas by mid-day (Gee how  does  that compare to Summer Queues,
    and the reason for goingin the Summer Mike?  ;^)).
        
>    Which simulator style did you prefer....BTTF or the Hanna-Barbera way?

    Either, they both had there  pluses,  with BTTF you really felt part of
    the action, but with only 8  seats,  you  don't really get the audience
    reaction like you do in ST/BW/HB while  sitting  in the back which also
    adds to your enjoyment of the ride.
        
>    Did you notice any road construction down there? Seems every time I go
>    down they're building another road.

    yup,  Is Orlando ever going to stop  growing.    No  real  construction
    between the Airport and WDW, it was elsewhere.
        
>    Did you vote for "Person of the Century?"

    Nope, I didn't vote for you.
        
>    How would you compare the Food courts at CBR and DL to PO?

    Like any other fast food court.
        
>    Where did you stand for Spectro-Magic?

    I aint't telling. But I did have unobstructive view.
        
>    Does Splash Mountain appear to have a lot of queueing space as
>    indicated by someone else?

    YUP SURE DOES FOR THOSE SUMMER TOURISTS.
        
>    Is Mel-Pee Wee back?

    NO, other than the voice of the Droid in ST.
        
>    Sounds like you never got a chance to eat at The Olive Garden. Did you?

    Nope, no reason to.
        
>    Did you notice if Squid (Calamare) was on the menu at Portobello?

    Nope didn't notice.
        
>    Did you notice if the 2-Day pass had been reinstated at TL?

    No they are not back, it's either 1 day or annuals.
        
>    What did you eat at Prime Time? You should warn others if your entree
>    wasn't so hot.

    We each had a different entree, all were rather bland.
        
>    That's all.

    Why do I have a hard time believing you?
        

    Claude

>    Claude I'm impressed.

>>    you should be. ;^)

     Boy, try to be nice an this is what I get...

      
>    I have some questions, too.

>>  Figures, since I didn't pull a Jim Pappas and ask if there was anything
    you wanted me to find out for you  while  I  was  down there, so you'll
    bombard me now eh?

    It's only the beginning pal.
      
>    Was the Laundry Room at PO near any pools?

>>  Gee didn't you read my entry in the PO  note  or  my  Trip  Report  you
    bugged me for?  the Laundry/Pool Bar building seperate the Pool and Hot
    Tub.

    I must have dozed off.
        
>    Were there any requirements for Shark Reef? My son may want to do it
>    but he's never snorkeled before.

>>  Only you couldn't smoke.  Joking aside I don't remember anything  other
    that  the obvious requirement of being able to float and breath thru  a
    tube.    Greg  who  is  13  never  snorkeled  before  either and had no
    problems.

    I'm game.
        
>    I don't recall if anyone ever mentioned if smoking was allowed in any
>    of the Pleasure Island Clubs. Any info on this?
 
>>  I saw folks with them damn  things  all  over.    Is it obvious I don't
    smoke?

    Hmm, that could change my plans regarding P.I.
     
>    Was the B&TB Stage Show packing in the crowds? I heard they had extra
>    seats brought in due to it's popularity.

>>  Yes every time I went by when  the  show was going on, there were folks
    standing in the back. As you refering to the 3 Bleachers in the back?

    Yep....they weren't there for "Diamond Double-Cross".
            
>    Swordfish at Narcosse's - can you get it Cajun style?
 
>>   I't wasn't cajun style, don't know if you can.

     You haven't lived until you've had swordfish cooked cajun style.
     
>    Superstar TV - This question is for everyone. Do they ever change what
>    they do up on that stage or is everything the same all the time?

>>   It would appear to be the same, based on the sets used.

     I was wondering if they used the same shows but alternative scripts.
      
>    Every time I've done Star Tours I've sat in the last row. Is it better
>    as you are closer to the screen?

>>  Based on my experience with Questor Ride at Bucsh Gardens Williamsburg,
    you want  to be in the middle to back, so as to see the screen clearly.
    First time on Questor we  had  front  row  and  I  was  having  trouble
    focusing on the screen and me with perfect vision (20/20).  Directly in
    the middle seems to be the less  violent,  while  the corners you realy
    feel the movements.

    I'm shootin' for row one next time.
      
>    You said you were to the left of UK for Illuminations. Did you feel
>    this was a good spot to view the show?

>>  I Ain't telling, but I was up against the fence  in  a  spot  between 2
    trees.   They Best Spot is obviously opposite American Adventure so  as
    to  see  all  the countries when they light them up but that  fills  up
    rather quickly as you know.

    Well I know where the Brazillians go and I'm staying far from there.
      
>    Other than BTTF what were the longest lines in Universal Studios?

>>  BTTF  fopr  me  was  the shortest walked right on, since I had done  it
    early, but  KONG/Earthquake  were long.  We did ET around 11:30 and the
    wait was like 5 mins.  Actually I had meant to put this in the reports,
    seemed like all the  parks  were  only  using about 1/3rd to 1/2 of the
    queuing areas by mid-day (Gee how  does  that compare to Summer Queues,
    and the reason for goingin the Summer Mike?  ;^)).

    You won't believe me but about the same. People stay up later in the
    Summer so they sleep longer....lines are long by mid-day.
        
>    Which simulator style did you prefer....BTTF or the Hanna-Barbera way?

>>  Either, they both had there  pluses,  with BTTF you really felt part of
    the action, but with only 8  seats,  you  don't really get the audience
    reaction like you do in ST/BW/HB while  sitting  in the back which also
    adds to your enjoyment of the ride.

    Answered that like a politician.
      
>    Did you notice any road construction down there? Seems every time I go
>    down they're building another road.

>>  yup,  Is Orlando ever going to stop  growing.    No  real  construction
    between the Airport and WDW, it was elsewhere.

    Sigh!
      
>    Did you vote for "Person of the Century?"

>>   Nope, I didn't vote for you.

     Gee and I gave you two votes last time.
        
>    How would you compare the Food courts at CBR and DL to PO?

>>   Like any other fast food court.

     Guess I'll have to see for myself!
      
>    Where did you stand for Spectro-Magic?

>>   I aint't telling. But I did have unobstructive view.

     Hey that's my spot!
      
>    Does Splash Mountain appear to have a lot of queueing space as
>    indicated by someone else?

>>   YUP SURE DOES FOR THOSE SUMMER TOURISTS.

     You mean for those mid-day Summer tourists. I'll be on it and off it
     by 9:30 A.M.
      
>    Is Mel-Pee Wee back?

>>   NO, other than the voice of the Droid in ST.

     So what's in place of the video, nothing?
      
>    Sounds like you never got a chance to eat at The Olive Garden. Did you?

>>   Nope, no reason to.

     Well you tried it for Breakfast but it was closed.
      
>    Did you notice if Squid (Calamare) was on the menu at Portobello?

>>   Nope didn't notice.

     Well it's at Alfredo's if anyone is interested.
      
>    Did you notice if the 2-Day pass had been reinstated at TL?

>>   No they are not back, it's either 1 day or annuals.

     That's okay. I just mailed my letter to Dick Nunis...maybe he'll come
     through with some Freebies.
      
>    What did you eat at Prime Time? You should warn others if your entree
>    wasn't so hot.

>>   We each had a different entree, all were rather bland.

     Bland sometimes means healthy.      

>    That's all.

>>   Why do I have a hard time believing you?

     Because you know me so well.      

>   Ken Kuscher...we're waiting for your report.
    

Mike,

Give me a break.  I will get to it but not until next week.  

Ken

    Re: Dave Nelson's Trip Report
    
    Dave, could you elaborate a bit on The Olive Garden Restaurant and Old
    Town. You frequently went to The Olive Garden which indicates something
    about that restaurant that kept bringing you back.
    
    Also, Old Town was mentioned by some friends of mine but I never got
    around to asking them more details regarding this ...shopping mall???
    
    Can you provide some info?
    
    Thanks,
    
    Mike_with_his_mod_hat_on

    We ate at the Olive Garden 3-4 times last year, and the friends we 
    were with ate there practically every other day.
    
    Why? - It's a great place! It's Italian'ish, but with enough 
    variety for most tastes. Quantities good to huge, fast friendly 
    service and reasonable prices. It's very handy, situated a little 
    behind the main Crossroads complex, and seems relatively 
    undiscovered. We called in on spec for dinner one evening (about 
    7pm) after being told at TGI Fridays that there would be a 1 hour 
    wait for a table, and were seated within 10 mins. They even 
    brought us complimentary soft drinks while we waited.
    
    Mike B.
    
    ps  Mike S. Sorry about calling you Jim, I don't know whether I 
    was thinking of Jim Pappas or the soon to be departed Jim Hill!

    RE: The Olive Garden
    
     I first went to the Olive Garden about 4 years ago when I was down
     visiting my folks. From what I understand it is a franchise with 
     locations around the country. It's basicaly an Italian Restaurant
     with dishes from all regions of Italy. The main reasons for the repeat
     visits were the atmosphere and the Shrimp Scampi which my wife loved.
     It's a very nice restaurant and was a nice place for a romantic
     dinner, although it does get very crowded and the wait is sometimes 
     pretty long. It's very popular with the locals. The one we went to was
     located on 192 about 3 miles from the main gate. But a new one has
     opened up just off the property at the Croosroads on 536 < (?) 
    
    
     RE: Old Town
     Old Town is located about a mile and a half from the main gate on 192.
     It's kind of like an outdoor mall, with a closed off brick street and
     about 50 specialty shops. It has many stores that represent countries
     such as China, England, The Carribean etc. along with Leather, Jewelry
     and Disney souvenir shops. At one end of the mall is Wolfman Jack's.
     A 50's style nightclub which features acts from the 50's & 60's.
     Especially nice to visit a night.
    
    -dave-

The Olive Garden has been drastically expanding its markets... northward...
I first tasted their amazing bread and salads six years ago in Florida,
but now we have one in Rochester, NY and I've seen them in many cities
between here and Florida... I'll bet it's not long before they're in
New England.

Bill

    Olive Garden's are all over the place.  In my travels, I've eaten in
    them in Phoenix and Mesa, AZ; in Salt Lake City, UT; Las Vegas NV
    (there are two there); four or five in the Los Angeles area; Columbus,
    OH; Detroit, MI;  and the one that started all of this:  in Orlando,
    FL.
    
    tom
    

    If you are an Olive Garden fan riding on I-95 South in Maryland
    around suppertime, then you will find one on Exit 41 (Rte 175, toward
    Columbia) on the right of a divided hwy. just off the exit. This is
    just south of Baltimore, MD.

    They have even been Canadianized.  Yup there even up here in Canada.

    
Update on trip reports:

Note   Date Entered   Title               Replies by 10-June    Total Replies

 34    28-Feb-1989    1989 Trip Reports         40                 99
183    10-Apr-1990    1990 Trip Reports         22                 55
237     3-Jan-1991    1991 Trip Reports         14                 42 
290     3-Jan-1992    1992 Trip Reports         21                 21

Here are the numbers on the sign-ins:

Note   Date Entered   Title                   Replies by 10-June Total Replies

158    23-Jan-1990    Sign-in 1990 WDW Visitors       80             96
221     5-Sep-1990    Sign-in 1991 WDW Visitors       60             84 
243     3-Feb-1991    Sign-in 1992 WDW Visitors       66             66
 
Well it looks like the 20th Anniversary hype has paid off. Either that or
more people have discovered this conference and have signed in. It looks
like note 243 may be the first "sign-in" notes to have a shot at 100 replies.

It's the trip reports which really add to the valuable info in this
conference so please make an effort to write up your vacation and share it
with the rest of us.

Mike_who_will_be_entering_a_trip_report_in_August
   

re:
    Note 290.22 MR4DEC::AWILLIAMS "Some imagination, huh??"  -< DL - June 6th >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Nice report, Skip.


    >>I noted both on the schedule and the goings-on on Main Street that I
    >>had just missed the Living in the USA Cavalcade parade.  Poor timing,
    >>because it was very crowded as the parade has just ended.
    
    Trust me, you didn't miss anything.  If you think "Small World" is
    annoying, you should try living with a little voice whining "Suburbia!
    Suburbia!"
    
>>I also
>>took the walking tour of Sleeping Beauty's Castle.  This was pretty neat; I
>>enjoyed the displays and thought they should have something like this in WDW. 
>>But it also brought up the age-old question of why King Stefan's Banquet Hall
>>is in *Cinderella's* Castle in WDW...

    Don't know; maybe they felt they needed something of Sleeping Beauty in
    WDW?
    
>>I hopped aboard the Disneyland RR and got off in New Orleans Square
>>(ooo, long trip).  

    You shoulda stayed on until Fantasyland so you could see the
    AudioAnimatronic Indian wave (Which reminds me; I wonder if the Chief
    waves to the Fantasmic! cast?)
    
>>I walked right onto Pirates and it is
>>superior to its WDW counterpart.  First, because of the two drops.  Second,
>>there seems to be more put into the displays and they seem to go on longer. 
>>Also, there were a few things in DL that I don't recall in WDW.  

    Besides the drops, the two main differences I've noticed between DL's
    and WDW's Pirates are the treasure room (in WDW, where DL just has the
    long upward climb to the egress), and the woman chasing the Pirate (in
    DL, he's just running away because she is fat and horny; in WDW she's
    chasing after him with a broom!)
    
    >>On my way out of Critter Country, I wanted to stop in the Briar Patch
    >>gift shop 
>>to pick up this great Tigger t-shirt I saw for my wife.  It was 10 o'clock and
>>they were closing.  Closing??  "Well, can I just quickly run in and get a
>>t-shirt??"  "No."  Grrrrr...  But lady, I just lost my favorite hat on Splash
>>Mountain.  She told me that the Start Trader in Tomorrowland or the Disney
>>Clothiers or the Emporium on Main Street would have the shirt.  She lied.  The
>>only place I could find this same shirt was in the Briar Patch gift shop but
>>they were closing and wouldn't let me buy the shirt.

    Other place (for future reference is Fantasia at the Disneyland Hotel,
    where the same stuff can be bought with a 10% MKC discount.
    

>>And boy that Mickey Mouse changes costumes fast!!  My favorite Mickey costume:
>>Steamboat Willie... in black and white yet.  A very nice touch.
    
    I don't know how to tell you this, but Mickey changing costumes...
    never mind.

>>The other thing I noticed, or rather, didn't notice, were the characters. 
>>Aside from the parades and shows, I didn't see any characters around the 
>>park. In any of the WDW parks, you could hardly go an hour or so without 
>>stumbling on them.  Maybe it was that I just in the wrong place at the wrong 
>>time or there were fewer out and about because of crowds, who knows??  It 
>>just seemed...different.

    Well, considering the fact that every costumed character Disney hires
    is in the show, which was getting ready to start (and every other cast
    member not working a store, snack bar, or ride is waving a flashlight,
    there may not have been any other characters left.  Typically, you
    don't see characters in Adventureland (street's too narrow) or
    Frontierland.  You'll occasionally get some of the Brer's in Critter
    Country, but most of the characters are found in Tomorrowland (Near the
    old "Carousel"/"America Sings"), near Star Tours (at the border between 
    Main St. and Tomorrowland), Main St nr "Mr. Lincoln", Main St. nr First
    aid and Fantasyland (nr Small World).  There are exceptions, but for
    the most part, they stay in those locations (and it is usually the same
    characters in the same places).
    
    I don't know for sure, but I assume this has to do with the fact that
    DL doesn't have the Great Underground Empire that WDW does, so that
    even the cast members have to cross borders in costume (which is a
    no-no at WDW) to get to the lockerfacilities on the east side of the
    park.  The costume characters only show up where there is an easy exit.
    
    tom
    (Who is going to WDW in 78 days, and will have to settle for a DL fix in 6)

    
    RE : The gentleman who realy, REALLY wanted to get that " Tigger "
    shirt from the " Briar Patch " Shop in Disneyland ...
    
    	If you still really, REALLY want it, there is a way. Disneyland
    has an excellent mail order merchandise sales department. If you were
    to call them, tell them which shirt you wanted, what shop you saw it
    in and what size you needed ( And you can give them your credit card
    number and/or send them the appropriate check ), you'll get your shirt.
    ( And fast too ! I recently used Disneyland's mail order merchandising
    office to snag a copy of the " Fantasmic / Main Street Electrical
    Parade " CD. I order mine on a Friday, I was playing it -- over and 
    over and over -- on my stereo the following Friday.) The price's --
    plus postage and handling, of course -- are reasonable. Best of all,
    you don't have to stand in line to buy your stuff.
    	I've got their telephone number somewhere at home. If you're still
    serious about this shirt, note back and I'll post the phone number in
    the next day or so.
    					jrh

    re: .153 
    
    A couple of things...
    
    The reason I was disappointed about arriving just as the parade ended
    was that I was stuck in the masses of people who were now headed for
    the rides.  Half of them probably got in line for Splash Mountain...
    
    You're right about riding the RR all the way around.  I wanted to do
    that but it was already dark and wasn't sure if it was worth it.  Also,
    because of my WDW bias, I didn't know there was a stop in Tomorrowland;
    otherwise, I could've ridden through Primeval World as I originally
    intended.  Oh well...
    
    Pirates.  Does WDW's version have all the skeletons in the beginning?? 
    I know they have some, but the one I'm wondering about in particular is
    sitting in a large bed, admiring himself in a mirror.
    
    Good points about the characters.  Didn't think about that.  Also, I
    imagine if I had been there earlier in the day, I would have seen some. 
    But I was disappointed that I didn't see my hero, Darkwing Duck... :-)
    
    re: the t-shirt
    
    I did check over in the Disneyland Hotel for the shirt later in the
    week.  They didn't have it.  But I guess what bugged me wasn't so much
    not getting the shirt (which is cute, but I'll live), but the woman's
    attitude.  She wasn't rude, but she certainly wasn't pleasant.  And
    then to send me off on a wild shirt chase, which was a complete waste
    of my time...
    
    Anyways...  Jim, if you have that number, I'd be interested.  There
    were a few additional items I saw that I might still like to get.  Mail
    it to me or post it in the appropriate note.
    
    - Skip

    
    Skip,
    
    	Pirates in WDW doesn't have all the skeletons in the beginning;
    	definitely not the skeleton in the bed.
    
    	I noticed you paid more for your ticket with MKC discount the
    	week after we did. Ours were $25.50... They must have increased
    	the price between June 1st and 6th...
    
    	Blue Bayou was a very good restaurant to eat in... Since we
    	spent an entire day on this visit we wanted full service
    	restaurants; and that was the only one open on May 31st. The
    	Monte Cristos were excellent for lunch! And then dinner was
        also excellent. I had the vegetarian pasta and I've forgotten
    	what Stan had... Only difference here is they do not take
        reservations... It's a first come, first seated policy; and
        all memebers of the party had to be there before they would
        seat you.... We had about a 1/2 hr wait for dinner.
    
    			- Annie
    

    Skip,
    
    Was the Fantasmic music a collage of Disney music over the years or was
    it an original piece?
    
    Mike

    Mike,
    
    It's a little of both actually.  There are two main Fantasmic! themes
    and these are new.  The show also uses the themes from "Pinocchio",
    "Fantasia", "Peter Pan", "The Little Mermaid", "Snow White...", "Beauty
    and the Beast", and a few more.  All are arranged/performed differently
    (sometimes only slightly) from the orignal pieces.
    
    So the short answer is yes and no.  :-)
    
    I have the CD and have been listening to it virtually non-stop at the
    office since my return.  As stated elsewhere, the CD also contains the
    music to the Main Street Electrical Parade.
    
    - Skip

    Ken and Jackie (I know you're reading this Jackie),
    
    Excellent trip report....well worth the wait.
    
    Your description of the Vacation Club goes a lot further than anything
    I've seen or heard so far. Sounds like a GREAT! place to visit.
    
    That first walk down Main Street USA is pretty awesome....it is never
    the same as the first time but when you make a return trip you'll still
    get a thrill.
    
    I think you made the right decision to go to TMK first. YOu seemed
    impressed by the audioanimatronics. Had you gone to EC first you may
    have had a differenrt reaction.
    
    Nothing like torturing those people on the bus regarding Nat and Brian.
    Did either Nat or Brian get a chance to swing a bat at Coaches Corner
    in Wonders of Life?
    
    Ahh we learn something new....pickup at Epcot no later than 3 hours
    before closing....that's good to know.
    
    Great report.....now you won't have to listen to me grumble from the
    third base coach's box over the next two weeks.....unless my team does
    a folderoo.
    
    See you on the field.
    
    Mike

Lucky me - Ken has let me at this modern age communication tool! To answer
you Mike, didn't tell the boys about the Coaches Corner - slipped right
out of my head - don't let on please!

Due to notes files - of which I am a definate addict - the suggestion to
go to TMK first was the best advice and have shared that insight with
others.  Oh to be able to walk down Main Street again!

Am surprised you haven't loaded on the questions or are you going easy
on me?  Oh yes, the meal at Tempura I told you about cost Ken and I
$36 for total bill with one of the super drinks also. It was fantastic.
That was a type of poo poo platter I guess - it was delicious and a fun
experience.

Got some stuff you may want - see ya on the field.

We who are hanging onto 3rd!!!

 Mike,  


 >   Your description of the Vacation Club goes a lot further than anything
 >  I've seen or heard so far. Sounds like a GREAT! place to visit.
  

 Not just visit, I could live there.

 Ken

    
As of today here is the latest Update on visitor sign-ins and trip reports:

Note   Date Entered   Title               Replies by 30-June    Total Replies

 34    28-Feb-1989    1989 Trip Reports         49                 99
183    10-Apr-1990    1990 Trip Reports         25                 55
237     3-Jan-1991    1991 Trip Reports         15                 42 
290     3-Jan-1992    1992 Trip Reports         24                 24

Here are the numbers on the sign-ins:

Note   Date Entered   Title                   Replies by 10-June Total Replies

158    23-Jan-1990    Sign-in 1990 WDW Visitors       84             96
221     5-Sep-1990    Sign-in 1991 WDW Visitors       65             84 
243     3-Feb-1991    Sign-in 1992 WDW Visitors       70             70
 
It's the trip reports which really add to the valuable info in this
conference so please make an effort to write up your vacation and share it
with the rest of us.

Mike_who_will_be_entering_a_trip_report_in_August
   

    Hmm,
    
    It's been 3 weeks now  that  2  of the Mod's have been back, and 1 week
    for the 3rd Mod being back  from the Infamous 3 Mods at the B'Day Bash,
    and all we have is Mike B.   rendering of what happen at the B'day Bash
    and no individual trip reports.
    
    I would enter a short  trip report NOW for my vacation I took last week
    only that it belongs in another conferrence that I'm mostly a RON in.
    
    
    Claude_who_thinks_us_mods_should_set_an_example ;^)
    
    PS #1, Mike S, you now have  over 700 lines written and it's only day 2
    of a 2wk+ trip, Boy whose going to be your publisher?

    PS #2, Yeah I know business conditions dictate otherwise ;^(

    Rep to <<< Note 227.162 by VISUAL::SCOPA "I'd rather be in Orlando" >>>

>As of today here is the latest Update on visitor sign-ins and trip reports:

    Hey Mike,
    
    I think  the  next  time  you  do  your statistical analysis of Visitor
    Sign-ins vs trip  Report  you'll notice that the data might be a little
    skewed.
    
    GEE it couldn't have anything to do with the 4 TRIP REPORTS EVERYONE IS
    WAITING WITH BAITED BREATH for now could it?  ;^)
    
    Boy it's sure has been quite in here of late.
    
    Claude

    Hey,
    
    Some of us pay particular attention to detail when writing our trip
    reports. Also, do you know how long it takes to write a 3000 line
    (no kidding) trip report?
    
    I'm about 35% complete.
    
    Mike_who_is_1786_days_away_from_his_next_trip

    Rep to <<< Note 227.165 by VISUAL::SCOPA "I'd rather be in Orlando" >>>

>    Some of us pay particular attention to detail when writing our trip
>    reports. 
 
    Yup I agree some folks give good detailed  accounts  of  their trips (I
    figured  my 680+ lines gave a good account of  a  8  night  trip,  just
    getting close  to  being verbose and putting the reader to sleep like a
    good tech manual).  And then some folks go over board by discribing how
    many steps it take to get on the bus from their hotel room ;^).
       
>    Also, do you know how long it takes to write a 3000 line
>    (no kidding) trip report?
 
    No  I  don't,  could  you  please include a discription of this in your
    report (Many ;^)'s)
    
    Claude   

    Hey Claude,
    
    	    If you're going to play by the rules then this topic 
    should be renamed "Discussion of Lack of Trip Reports".
    
    	    Anyway, Mike S. and I don't have a lot of spare time what 
    with working for Digital and moonlighting as Brazilian Tour Guides 
    8-)8-)
    
    Mike B.

    Mike's right Claude.
    
    My trip report will be entered as soon as
    
           ....I finish it
          
           ....CLOSET has adequate memory to accept it
    
    Mike

    Re: Last 2
    
    following are excerpt from topic 182.0 
    
         'It seems as though there are many noters who are making trips
          to our favorite spot on Earth...yet only a small percentage are
          returning and filing a trip report.'

         'Please note that we are not looking for highly detailed minute-
          by-minute account of your trip. Even just a paragraph or two
          which would describe what you did, what you liked, didn't like,
          what you would do differently next time, etc. is fine.'

          'Be a good noter and tell us all about your trip.'

    You're brutal!
    
    It sounds like something I would say.
    
    C'mon Pappas, Batty, and Jette. Get those reports in!
    
    Ahhhh, now I feel better!

    Gee - I'm on day 2 and have 110 lines - not as much of a "talker" as
    Mr. Scopa!
    
    Kathy
    

    Kathy,
    
    I'm on Day 8 and I'm up to 1178 lines. Of course it took 100 lines to
    discuss my horrific ride on Splash Mountain.
    
               Leo Tolstoy

    re: .172
    
    Hmmmm... to save "Leo" from suffering the agony of carpal tunnel
    syndrome in his twilight years, maybe we should make him give an oral
    trip report.  Sounds like a good enough reason for another noters'
    gathering, eh??
    
    :-) :-) :-)
    
    - Skip

Good trip report, Kathy!!

>>Saturday, July 11th
>>
>>This is the day the tall ships are due to come into Boston Harbor. It's all 
>>over the radio that traffic will be a nightmare.  

Yeah, those tall ship are a real pain during rush hour, especially when one of
them gets stuck in the Callahan Tunnel... :-)

>>As you all know from reading this notesfile - we did not tell my 10 year 
>>old (David) about this trip in advance.  We woke him at 4:00am and said - 
>>"You have to get up we have a plane to catch" his reply: "to where?"
>>our reply: "Disney World!" - my husband snaps the photograph of my son 
>>jumping out of bed - feet not touching the floor till he's out in the 
>>hallway.  It was priceless!  

This is sooo cool.  I bet your son was flying so high he could've made it down 
to Florida without an airplane.

>>MGM

It's interesting that you didn't enjoy MGM as much.  Care to sepculate why?? 
Too small??  Not into the movie theme??  Please don't think that I'm picking on
you but I really enjoyed this park (except that it was too small) when I was
down there last, but then I'm a really big movie buff so I'm defintiely biased.

Overall, it sounds like you had a fun trip.  Especially at the Adventurer's
Club... :-)  

- Skip

    Re: Kathy Jette's Report
    
    >>>Mr. Scopa - what a ham!
    
       Can't argue with that.
    
    >>>Tried Dole Whip - sorry wasn't impressed (but I'm a chocoholic
    
       Kathy, did you try D-Zerts over at Pleasure Island?
    
    >>>Found Mike Scopa (on more than one occasion) walking around - alone
    >>>talking to himself - with a Video Camera surgically implanted into
    >>>his shoulder.
    
       The doctors say I'll be able to take the bandages off tomorrow and
       I should be able to lower my arm by the weekend.
    
    >>>As you all know...we did not tell my 10 year old (David) about this
    >>>trip in advance.
    
       I visited the Jette's in their room an hour or so after they arrived
       and David was still shocked. Kathy can sure keep a secret. That's
       why I told her, and only her, about my secret love affair with
       Minnie.
    
    >>>Spectromagic - We got a place right in front of the gift shop next
    >>>to the Mile Long Bar hamburger place.  Great view!
    
       Kathy hit upon a great spot to view the parade. One night I stood
       down behind everyone and taped some footage of the parade as it
       rolled down behind Splash Mountain. The footage has Splash Mountain
       in the background.
    
    >>>EPCOT. Right to the boat dock and off to World Showcase - there were
    >>>6 other people on the boat. There is literally no one around.  We had
    >>>never toured the Showcase before - ever.  We were there until 1:30pm.
    
       Glad you put this in Kathy. First-timers are you paying attention?
    
    >>>I will never go without a rental car EVER again!
    
       Over the last 5 years the WDW roadways have made car travel more of
       the number one choice to get around. No knock on the busses but the
       all important time factor make cars necessary.
    
    >>>After seeing Mike S's brilliant performance
    
       My public...how they love me!
    
    >>>We now had our 1st encounter with a brazilian tour group.
    
       Watch it Kathy. Yer talking about "my people". Wait to you guys see
       my trip report (70% complete) and my encounter with our friends from
       the South.
    
    >>>I was not as impressed with Illuminations this time as I was in
    >>>1988.
    
       I never was impressed with Illuminations.
    
    >>>My husband and I went to Pleasure Island...the Adventurer's Club.
    >>>I'm very glad Mike S wasn't there with his video camera! 
    
       AHA!! I WAS THERE...the beard and wig fooled you. Watch Bob Saget
       this Sunday night if you want to see yerself.
    
    >>>MGM...I must admit it is the least favorite of the 3 parks for all
    >>>of us.
    
       Kathy, could you explain why you feel this way? Did you see
       everything in MGM? Did you do VOTLM, Muppet-4D, Animation, and
       Superstar TV? Did you see the B&TB show and "Sorcery..."?
    
    >>>The one place I wanted to go but never had the chance was Beaches &
    >>>Cream.
    
       Next time Kathy...next time.
    
    >>>I also missed the opening of Splash Mountain by 2 days!  :(
    
       Next time Kathy...next time.
    
    Mike

    Rumor mill  says  that  Mr.  Scopa has authored a report that currently
    stands at 2884 lines, and he still has a couple of days left yikes!!!!!
    
    Does anyone know of a publisher?
    
    Claude

    Nahhhh. My rumor mill confirms in excess of 3000 lines.
    
    Mike

    Yeah, but all 3000 lines is just Postscript (tm)  depicting a
    Brazillian Tour Party Shirt.  Shouldn't take more than 30 minutes or so
    to display.
    
    				Nigel

    C'mon Nigel,
    
    	    If it's Brazilian it won't take 30 mins. It'll be right in 
    front of you in the blink of an eye!
    
    Mike B.

    Rep to <<< Note 227.178 by CFSCTC::CFSCTC::CONLIFFE "Better Than Life" >>>

>    Yeah, but all 3000 lines is just Postscript (tm)  depicting a
>    Brazillian Tour Party Shirt.  Shouldn't take more than 30 minutes or so
>    to display.

    Nigel,
    
    I know for a  fact  by  bugging  Mike (on a daily basis ;^)) to get his
    report done that 3000 lines  was  his SOURCE file.  We are talking over
    35 pages in Postcript format alone,  or  43+  pages in raw text.  It'll
    take more than 30 mins to read.

    
    REP to <<< Note 227.179 by WOTVAX::BATTY "Der machinen goin' Floomy Floomy!" >>>

>If it's Brazilian it won't take 30 mins.  It'll be right in front of you
>in the blink of an eye!

    Mike,
    
    A couple of days ago he was at 2300 lines and had only two days left to
    report on his trip, Mike was starting to describe an encounter with his
    adopted countrymen which  took several hundred lines, that section will
    take 30 minutes to read.   
    
    
    Claude

    PS1 we are talking about a tree killer trip  report  to  end  all  trip
    reports here
    
    PS2 Mike is already looking forward to his next trip/Mega report 

Will "Mike Scopa's Unofficial Guide to DisneyWorld" be available in Bookreader
format??  Should we get a part-number for it and declare it a product??

					Nigel

    	Wow, a new addition to the great works of Western Literature.....
    
    
    
    The Iliad
    
    The Odyssey
    
    The Scopa Trip Report!!!
    
    	I hear that the BBC is trying to get the rights and that we can
    expect to see The Scopa Chronicles on Masterpiece Theatre soon!  
    
    
    ;^)
    
    Tom

    Actually that's not a bad idea Nigel. With a little time and effort a
    trip report can be put together in Bookreader format including tables 
    (costs of the trip, etc.) and figures (scanned in pictures and
    graphics).
    
    However that would take me another week or two to get it just right and
    I don't think Claude can wait that long.
    
    The report will arrive in less than a week.
    
    Mike

    Hang in there gang.
    
    The Mother of All Trip Reports is almost finished.
    
    Be forewarned that this trip report will exceed 3000 lines.
    
    ETA is sometime this Thursday.
    
    Mike

    Sounds like  someone  just recieved his latest issue of Disney News and
    read that instead of doing his trip report ;^).

    Rumor has  it the Mike Scopa will be having an autograph session in the
    MKO cafe tomorrow during lunch for his debut book entitled
    
    "The Day in the Life of a Disney.Note Moderator on Vacation in WDW"
    
                                   subtitled
    
    "And How to  Avoid  the  Pitfalls  of  Having Your Camcorder Surgically
    Removed From Your Face, and Your Adopted Countries Tour Groups"
    
    Claude
    
    BTW Mike it's Thursday!!!

    Rep to <<< Note 227.184 by VISUAL::SCOPA "I'd rather be in Orlando" >>>

>    The Mother of All Trip Reports is almost finished.
>    ETA is sometime this Thursday.

    Unless of  course Thursday if followed by Friday then Friday, unless of
    course Friday if followed by ..................:^) ;^) ;^)

    Re .188
    
    Claude
    
    >    ETA is sometime this Thursday.
    
    Maybe the report was arriving via Braniff and thats why the ETA is off
    by a day. (so far)
    
    
    Bill

    Boy, are we disappointed.  We hauled my husband's new DEC320Pc all the
    way to WDW just to read the one and only Mother-in-Law of all trip
    reports, and here we sit in the Poly with a typical late summer Florida
    afternoon thunderstorm going on, and there's not a report in sight.
    
    Pretty sick, aren't we?
    
    Anyway, we have some live scoops for you all.  Any questions you just
    HAVE to have answered, let us know!
    
    That's all for now.
    
    Ellen (and Ted) Doyle

    re: Mike Scopa's trip report 290.35
    
    Mike, what can I say, it was worth waiting for.  Sort of like the
    Digital version of Birnbaum.  I don't know how I'm
    going to last the next 242 days until it's time for my family again.
    But two whole weeks and not even a single visit to the Adventurer's 
    Club??  ;-)
    
    Thanks for the journalism,
    Ken
    

>    Okay gang you can stop all those postcards and nasty mail messages.
>    And Claude...was that you who called me up at 2 A.M. and said, "Finish
>    that trip report!"

    Heh Heh did your phone ring?
        
>    Well it's done and follows this reply.I actually trimmed it down from
>    3100 lines to under 2700 lines. If you copy it from the conference
>    you're looking at under 300 blocks.

    Gee Mike  I'm  a  little disapointed, 2 days late, 300 lines short from
    the promised 3000 lines and released during a holiday weekend ;^(.
        
>    I hope everyone enjoys it as much as I've enjoyed writing in.
>    Happy reading.

    Hmm, I'll have  to  wait  on commenting on this since I haven't read it
    yet!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    
    Claude

    
Re: Michael Tidmarsh's Trip Report
    
>>>
>>>                      SPLASH MOUNTAIN IS OPEN!!!
>>>
>>>I am proud to be the first person in these notes files to be able to
>>>announce this!

Hmmm, Mike I think that Messers Pappas and Batty announced the opening of
Splash Mountain in late July. I know that Jim and I rode the attraction on
it's opening day and Jim flew home the following day.

Actually, shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh, let's act like true-blue castmembers
and say, "Splash Mountain will officially open Oct....erhhhh...this Fall."

Mike

    I'm now really embarassed about my late (as in delayed, not dead!) 
    Trip Report. Not about Mike S. beating me to it, but people who 
    don't even work for the company beating me to it! I'll get it 
    finished soon, honest!
    
    Re: Mike's Report
    
    Point 1.
    Getting the 'Red T-Shirt' was no problem, I just went up to a tour 
    party and said "Mike Scopa wants a T-Shirt" and I was inundated 
    with offers (some of which I can't describe in a Disney note, but 
    knowing Mike Scopa equated to being a roady for a famous rock 
    band!!!).
    
    Point 2.
    Are you sure you were at the same HDD? I thought all 18 of us were 
    trying to keep you AWAY from the stage 8-)8-)
    
    Point 3.
    Aren't you supposed to get permission to use real people in 
    novels? I want a cut of the profits when the Booker/Pulitzer 
    awards come through! (Or at least a signed copy of you in the 
    'Shirt'.)
    
    Great Report, although the time taken reading it will delay mine 
    even more! 
    
    Mike B.

    Point 1 - I get those offers all the time.
    
    Point 2 - Once I was assured I was the Indian brave I wanted to get up
              onto that stage and get the "loin cloth" on before they
              changed their mind and gave me the tutu.
    
    Point 3  - Mike I have your signature....on my birthday card. Above it I
              wrote, "We the undersigned do hereby release..."
    
    By the way "The Shirt" has now officially been placed in my office. I
    was waiting until I had posted the trip before bringing it into the
    office. Now it won't take so long to explain it's origin.
    
    The Other Mike Mod
    

    Hmm
    
    - Official Mod HANDSHAKE?  in a Men's Room no less!!!!
    
    - Mod  afraid to ride Splash Mountain and willing to trade, all you had
      to do was call and supply the airfare Mike ;^).
    
    - Another Ice  Cream  Lover, but a desert for 2 Mike, shame on you, you
      glutan.
    
    - No PI at night, shame on you you haven't experience PI till you have
      Kongalosh'd the night away.
    
    - An Italian and you didn't eat at Portabella Yatch Club?
    
    - Remind me never to go to WDW especialy EPCOT while the SCOPA's are in
      town.
    
    - Mike when did you  have time to take down the notes necessary for the
      size of this report?  Oh yeah  you  had  a  video  camera permanently
      attached to your face.  ;^)
    
    - Gee I never had any problem in  WDW  with Tour Group, you must have a
      special  magnatism.....  When I stayed off-site I did  have  problems
      though.
    
    - Eleven deserts in one night???????  so how much of that 40lbs did you
      pack back on Mike?
    

    that's  all for now considering I skimed through it, 40 and  1/3  pages
    Mike, what'll you do on your next trip?
    
    Claude

>>>    - Official Mod HANDSHAKE?  in a Men's Room no less!!!!

         It was Jim's idea.
 
>>>    - Mod  afraid to ride Splash Mountain and willing to trade, all you had
>>>      to do was call and supply the airfare Mike ;^).

         Had you all fooled. Me??? Afraid???

>>>    - Another Ice  Cream  Lover, but a desert for 2 Mike, shame on you, you
         glutan.

         Hey, what could I do? They didn't have one for 3 people. ;^)

>>>    - No PI at night, shame on you you haven't experience PI till you have
         Kongalosh'd the night away.

         Next time.
 
>>>    - An Italian and you didn't eat at Portabella Yatch Club?

         What the heck is a Yatch? And who is this Portabella woman? Sounds
         like a hefty Italian babe!

>>>    - Remind me never to go to WDW especialy EPCOT while the SCOPA's are in
         town.

         If you can't stand the heat...there's probably not enough ice
         cream in WDW for the two of us.

>>>    - Mike when did you  have time to take down the notes necessary for the
         size of this report?  Oh yeah  you  had  a  video  camera permanently
         attached to your face.  ;^)

         The stitches come out Friday.

>>>    - Gee I never had any problem in  WDW  with Tour Group, you must have a
         special  magnatism.....  When I stayed off-site I did  have  problems
         though.

         I think Batty paid them to bug me.

>>>    - Eleven deserts in one night???????  so how much of that 40lbs did you
         pack back on Mike?

         About 10 lbs. that night.

>>>     that's  all for now considering I skimed through it, 40 and  1/3  pages
>>>     Mike, what'll you do on your next trip?

        Take a laptop down there and write-up every day and mail it in
        electronically so you won't bug me when I get back.

        Gee I beat both Jim and Mike and they came back a week before me.

        Mike

    Rep to <<< Note 227.197 by VISUAL::SCOPA "I'd rather be in Orlando" >>>

>>>    - Official Mod HANDSHAKE?  in a Men's Room no less!!!!
>         It was Jim's idea.

>>>    - Mod  afraid to ride Splash Mountain and willing to trade, all you had
>>>      to do was call and supply the airfare Mike ;^).
>         Had you all fooled. Me??? Afraid???
    
    Hmm, Jim tells a totally diferent story ....

    	In regards to Mike Scopa's "A Tale Of Three Theme Parks" I can only
    quote what Tim Allen has eloquently said...........
    
    
    AAARRRUUUUUGGGGHHH
    
    
    Tom

    
    I must have types that line in fast...should be Beef Burgandy...I
    think.
    
    Mike Scopa
    Father of the "Mother of..."

    RE: The Scopa epic....
    
    	Mike.... great job.... you must need another vacation just from all
    the work you put into this, maybe a quick escape to WDW with just the
    wife(;-)...
    	By the way, my wife enjoyed your report immensely.  In fact she has
    now threatened my that if I don't take her and the kids real soon, she
    will use your trip report in the divorce proceedings, as cruel and
    unreasonable punishment (;-)
    
    Best Regards,
    
    Tony

    Hmmm, a weekend escape with the wife to WDW. Sounds good. That'd be
    about a 25 page trip report upon my return ;^).
    
    M

    Rep to <<< Note 227.203 by VISUAL::SCOPA "I'd rather be in Orlando" >>>

>                             -< 1 day = 8.3 pages >-
>    Hmmm, a weekend escape with the wife to WDW. Sounds good. That'd be
>    about a 25 page trip report upon my return ;^).

    gee Mike using your  formala above, and considering that you had stayed
    at the CBR from July  11-26,  and  your report came in at 40+ pages you
    seem to owe us about 85 pages for your last trip.
    
    Never mind I wouldn't want to read it ;^).
    
    Claude   

    Mike, 
    
    Just got back to work from vacation today (not at Disney :-(((, but we
    did drop in to the Colorado Springs Disney store for a brief "fix").
    Wish your trip report had been available before we left, we could have 
    left War and Peace at home :-)) !
    
    Sounds like you had a great trip, and there are some more good tips for
    future visitors (as usual). That report will probably never be matched!
    
    Linda 

    I told you guys you got the abridged version. If you had gotten the
    original unabridged version the first paragraph would have been
    something like this:
    
    
    "I was half-asleep all night. I finally felt that at 2:48 A.M. I would
     declare myself officially awake. Before going to bed I had made some
     audio tapes to listen to on the drive down. Besides taping off my
    Disney CD's (B&TB, Disney Spectacular, Official Album, etc.) I also
    taped an assortment of contemporary and classic tunes. I had stayed up
    until about 11:45 P.M. or so doing this. I grabbed the clothes I had
    laid out the night before and took them into the bathroom with me. I
    disrobed and turned on the hot water....hmmm too hot. I turned on the
    cold water. Ahhhh....just right. I stepped into the shower and began to
    lather up...first the right arm, then the left...then....."
    
    See? Aren't you glad I pared the report down?
    
    ABC has contacted me to do a one week mini-series. The only problem is
    that they want Chevy Chase to play me...maybe they were thinking of
    Splash Mountain and how my eyes got as big as saucers when the BIG drop
    was about to happen.
    
    The parts of Jim Pappas, Mike Batty, and Kathy Jette are up in the air
    right now.
    
    Vying for the role of Jim Pappas are Michael Richards (Seinfeld) and
    William Shatner, and Billy Crystal.
    
    Vying for the role of Mike Batty are Sir Alec Guinness, Michael York,
    and Jeremy Irons.
    
    Vying for the role of Kathy Jette are Tracy Ullman, Terri Garr, and
    Rhea Pearlman.
    
    A portion of the movie will show Claude back at the helm doing his
    moderator Schtick. Looks like the producers will have to decide among
    Joe Pesci, Danny Devito, and Ed Asner to play Claude.
    
    The producers hope to have it out in time for the November Sweeps
    period. I'll probably be doing Arsenio, The Tonight Show, and probably
    Whoopi about a week or two before it starts. I expect to be hosting
    Saturday Night Live in January.
    
    :^)

    Rep to <<< Note 227.206 by VISUAL::SCOPA "I'd rather be in Orlando" >>>

>    A portion of the movie will show Claude back at the helm doing his
>    moderator Schtick. 
    
    Don't forget  about  Ruth  and  Len,  they were stuck back here with me
    while you were busy  eating  your Ice Cream Sundies for 2 (Although Len
    was dreaming of owning a piece of the MAGIC the following month).
    
>    Looks like the  producers  will  have  to decide among Joe Pesci, Danny
>    Devito, and Ed Asner to play Claude.

    Hmm, Mike last time I check I was 5'10" tall.
    
    Claude

> Don't forget  about  Ruth  and  Len,  they were stuck back here with me
> while you were busy  eating  your Ice Cream Sundies for 2 (Although Len
> was dreaming of owning a piece of the MAGIC the following month).

  I just spoke with the producers and the part of Ruth Lowell will be
  played by either Paula Abduhl or Marie Osmond. Let me explain. There is
  a scene in the movie where we find Ruth moderating the file and thinking
  about Orlando at night and soon the screen gets all wavy and she sees
  herself roaming through TMK at night with the characters after closing
  hours. The producers are leaning towards Paula Abduhl because of the
  necessary choreography.

  Len's gonna love this...they are talking with Steve Martin to play the
  part of Len Goldberg. The only sequence I am allowed to mention is the
  "dream sequence." You see Len is thinking about the DVC before going down
  there and one night before falling asleep he thought about it so much
  that he has this incredible dream about owning a piece of the Magic. The
  slapstick sequence with Goofy and Roger Rabbit on the golf course is
  hilarious....ooops dont' want to disclose too much more.

> Hmm, Mike last time I check I was 5'10" tall.

  Danny's gonna have lifts in his shoes.

  By the way, background music for the Brazillian sequences will be written
  and sung by Gloria Estafan and the Miami Sound Machine.

  Any other questions?

 

    To the birthday bash group and the other folks who posted trip
    reports in the past month, thank you. The 6K lines of trip reports
    made for fun reading.
    
    Mike

    Mike S -
    
    I just finished reading your trip report.  Great job!  I'm sure it will
    be a great help to those future visitors to the World!
    
    BTW:  How much you want for that video you took of me at the
    Adventurer's Club?  
    
    Kathy
    
    

    Sorry Kathy,
    
    I'm filling in orders now. This is GREAT! It'll pay for my next trip.
    At this rate I'll be able to stay at the GF and have dinner every night
    at V & A's if I can handle wearing a suit down there....which I can't.
    
    Mike the Papparazzi

    Well, how about showing the video at the next Disney get-together??
    
    See, I've never met any of you people, and putting faces to the names
    would be great.  
    
    				Nigel 

    
Update on trip reports:

Note   Date Entered   Title               Replies by 24-Sep    Total Replies

 34    28-Feb-1989    1989 Trip Reports         63                 99
183    10-Apr-1990    1990 Trip Reports         38 (41%)           55
237     3-Jan-1991    1991 Trip Reports         33 (43%)           42 
290     3-Jan-1992    1992 Trip Reports         38 (50%)           38

Here are the numbers on the sign-ins:

Note   Date Entered   Title                   Replies by 24-Sep Total Replies

158    23-Jan-1990    Sign-in 1990 WDW Visitors       93             96
221     5-Sep-1990    Sign-in 1991 WDW Visitors       76             84 
243     3-Feb-1991    Sign-in 1992 WDW Visitors       76             70
 
It's nice to see that a larger percentage of sign-ins are also delivering
trip reports. About 50% of the '92 visitors have delivered their reports.
    
    We would be over 50% for '92 if one of two mods...erh people would put
    theirs in.

Since starting the sign-in notes in 1990 about 54% of those who have signed
in as visitors have submitted trip reports.

To those of you who haven't, in the words of Mom at Prime
Time..............."Shame!Shame!Shame!"

Mike   

I must agree with the previous note that TL was really overcrowded and 
Saturday night at the MK was really unbelievable in fact I was told 
that they were turning cars away from the parking lot from 7:00pm 
onwards. The supposed reason for the high attendace at the MK was (so 
I was told) was because of the admission discounts for Florida 
residents. The overcrowding at TL was not due to school holidays in 
the U.K. as they don't start to next week, although I noted more Brits 
in Florida than ever before. (Most holiday packages from the U.K. use 
hotels on International Drive/Kissimee areas)

Chris

    Well Mr. Batty it's about time....brought back memories erh?
    
    Just reading your trip made my day and also points out to everyone that
    the longer you wait the more you forget.
    
    Regarding the trees. I feel the same way Mike. When I visited WDW in
    1975 and in 1976 the trees were far shorter than they are today and the
    castle was very much in good sight as you walked up MAin Street. Not so
    today. 
    
    I've often wondered if the Disney folks feel certain trees in certain
    locations should be monitored and trimmed down to size if they reach a 
    certain height.
    
    EPCOT and MGM both have certain places in our hearts but the child in
    all of us is the reason for that shiver Mike mentions as you stand at 
    the bottom of Main Street. It works for me too.
    
    Mike, Mick's FW for "Sorcery..." is always there. A castmember told me
    that the FW sometimes misfires and they need to douse the finger so
    it's not something that occurs 100% of the time. The first time I saw
    "Sorcery" in 1990 no FW....the rest of the time I saw it.
    
    By the way Mike, my birthday gift is hanging just 5 feet from where I'm
    sitting and I have also placed my Birthday Bash Button on it. Once in a
    while I put the shirt on and I get an uncanny urge to:
    
            - Find more people dressed like me
            - Listen to Gloria Estafan CD's
            - Follow anyone carrying a red flag
            - Spend big bucks on denim...any denim
    
    We'll have to do it again sometime.
    
    Miguel

    RE: .-1
    
    I dont think that's true. At Splash Mountain the left line feeds the
    second boat/log, the right line, the first, but as the two go round
    separatly the front seat can still be obtained (he said, dripping with
    experience).
    
    Also, on Thunder Mountain, the left line tends to feed the left
    platform, so again all seats are available.
    
    JohnK

    When Jim Pappas dragged me onto Splash Mountain we found the left line
    to move a bit faster than the right line and the left line also
    received full benefit of the A/C when going through that old mill.
    
    Mike

re:-.1

I agree with that and on a hot day I'd be in the left line...but when I was 
there in Sept. the lines generally started about 20ft before the air conditioning
duct and were equal in length....in this case if you were in the right side
you got to the boats quicker since on the 'last turn' the left line is on 
the outside diameter of the turn...and is therefore longer.

(Being an engineer, I just couldn't resist saying that...but it was true)

-Jay

    
Update on trip reports:

158    23-Jan-1990    Sign-in 1990 WDW Visitors    96     
183    10-Apr-1990    1990 Trip Reports            55 (57.3%)

221     5-Sep-1990    Sign-in 1991 WDW Visitors    84 (57.1%)
237     3-Jan-1991    1991 Trip Reports            48 

243     3-Feb-1991    Sign-in 1992 WDW Visitors    79             
290     3-Jan-1992    1992 Trip Reports            46 (58.2%)

Total Signees   259
Total Reports   149  (57.5%)

Mike   

    re: 334.1 
    
    Thanks for kicking off the '93 trip reports for us, Amy!!  Great
    report!!
    
    And to those of you who have yet to enter to your 92 reports, shame on
    you!!  Don't you feel the least bit guilty...??  :-)
    
    But now, a couple of comments on Amy's trip.  I agree with you about
    the scheduling of attractions at MGM.  That's one thing that bothered
    when I was there back in '90.  We were in line a lot and because it
    didn't move until showtime, it felt that much longer.  Hopefully, the
    Disney folks will rectify the situation when Sunset Boulevard opens. 
    It seems there are more rides planned for this section of the park with
    the Tower of Terror and the Toontown Transit (if that's still on the
    drawing boards).
    
    But you sure managed to pack a lot into what was basically two days at
    WDW even though you didn't make it to the MK for SPlash Mountain or
    SpectroMagic... :-)
    
    - Skip

	
    Hi Skip! (Remember me from back at the Mill? :^) )
    
>    But you sure managed to pack a lot into what was basically two days at
>    WDW even though you didn't make it to the MK for SPlash Mountain or
>    SpectroMagic... :-)
    
    	Yeah, that's what happens when you let *me* do the planning! 
    Good thing we had two days to recover from it! :^)

    	amy

    Of course I remember you, Amy!!  
    
    But it sounds like you and I could start a tour company called
    Whirlwind Tours because my last two trips were a lot like yours, except
    that we made it to the MK... :-)
    
    - Skip

Bill,
 Neat trip report.  Thanks.

 It sounds like the "Be Our Guest" pass replaces the old "Guest ID card"; is
that so???   The barcode idea sounds neat too!!!

				N

    Great trip report Bill!  One worth reading over again!
    
    Kathy
    

    Nice job Bill. 
    
    Wasn't this your first time staying on the property? it'd be great if
    you can share your thoughts and impressions regarding staying on Disney
    property vs off the property.
    
    I'm sure there are noters who are trying to decide whether or not to
    stay on the property.
    
    Mike

    Yes, this was our first on-property stay (after 4 off-property visits).
    I tried to sprinkle my thoughts throughout the trip report, but I'll
    summarize:
    
    	ON-SITE
    	-------
    	PLUSES:	Proximity to parks and things like Disney golf courses
    		Great Disney bus transportation (if you do drive, you
    			don't have to pay for parking; if you are
    			there for a 100% Disney vacation, you don't
    			even need a rent-a-car)
    		All the usual great Disney touches like Mickey Mouse
    			shampoo and soap, great pools, cleanliness of
    			the grounds, beautiful landscaping, etc
    		Disney hotels are away from the highways and any hussle
    			and bussle associated with that
    		The service is outstanding
    		Everybody (guests and staff) seem nicer since you are all
    			sharing the Disney experience together
    
    	MINUSES:Expensive (lodging, food, everything)
    		You need a car if you plan to visit anything off-property
    			or eat off-property
    
    	OFF-SITE
    	--------
    	PLUSES:	Cheaper
    		Proximity to non-Disney sites like Universal Studios
    		More variety of dining opportunities usually nearby
    
    	MINUSES:Driving to-and-from WDW can cost you lots of time and
    			parking expense
    		Just doesn't have that "total Disney feel"
    
    I would basically say that you should stay at a Disney Resort at least
    once. They are all different. Find the one that seems to suit your
    tastes/needs and just immerse yourself in the experience.
    
    If you can afford it (my dream) stay at a different Resort each time.
    Prices and services vary. Check Birnbaum for descriptions.
    
    Does that help?
    
    -- Bill

    Another big plus of on-property stay: Be Our Guest Passes. You don't
    need any other tickets or even charge cards during your WDW stay.
    
    Now if they just had a monorail that ran from the Orlando Airport
    to WDW...
    
    -- Bill

    Another plus that we found was being able to make same day dinner
    reservations at the restaurants - we were a group of 7, and never had a
    problem with dinner reservations!
    
    Another plus that we didn't take advantage of, just because we were
    being lazy, is that certain days they let you into the park an hour
    earlier than everyone else.
    
    A plus for staying at the CBR that we liked too was that we could use
    the Magic Kingdom Club card at the store there.

    Okay Bill, now that you've been to WDW a few times with the last time
    being your first time staying on the property....will you stay on the
    property next time...and why/why not?
    
    Mike

    What is this, twenty questions??  ;-)
    
    Actually, Nancy and I are in agreement that we won't visit WDW again for
    a while. Why? Well, a couple reasons: (1) as I noted, there isn't that
    much new there, especially at Epcot; we want to give it a while to
    go through some changes, and (2) there are some other places we've
    never been but want to visit on our limited vacation budget (like
    Hawaii).
    
    NOTE: We've been going to WDW on average once every two years. We
    think that our next visit will be in about 5 years.
    
    Our 20th wedding anniversary is in two years. Target: Hawaii!
    
    However, we will go back to WDW some day. Will we stay on-property
    next time? Without a doubt! Maybe The Swan or The Dolphin that time.
    
    -- Bill

    I think Rose East's trip report should be read by anyone who is
    wondering about the ages children should be on their first trip to
    WDW.
    
    If you read Rose's report you find that little 5 year old Alyssa had a
    great time but got caught up in so much excitement the first day that
    she really got wiped out.
    
    Thankfully Alyssa has some parents who could read when it was time to
    call it a "day" and went back to the hotel for a rest.
    
    One of the pitfalls parents (especially WDW first-timers) have to try
    an avoid is to do too much on your initial visit to Orlando.
    
    YOu may want to do what Rose did and that is give your child a "taste"
    of what WDW is all about. Don't rush things...and above all plan your
    days accordingly.
    
    Rose, to answer your questions about who comes out and who doesn't I 
    think it depends upon which castmember happens to be working at that
    time. remember, the castmembers must spend a long time in getting down
    all the recognizable gestures of the characters they portray.
    
    You just happened to hit Starland when Pooh wasn't around. We say him 
    quite a bit last year, especially in the United Kingdom section of
    World Showcase.
    
    I always ask a character castmember guardian (oversees character
    appearances) when, where, and who will be out for the next appearance.
    These guardians are usually within 10-15 feet of the characters and
    sometimes have two-way radios in their hands.
    
    Mike

    
    I think the trip report in 334.15 also brings up a good point 
    about Disney commercials.  They are (even for commercials) unrealistic.
    Children are lead to believe that Disney characters will always be
    seated next to them on rides and that Cinderellas castle will be right
    outside their hotel window, and I do mean right outside, not off in the 
    distance.  I love Disney but I think that those types of commercials
    are just plain dishonest.  Commercials should display what a guest
    can and probably will do during a trip to WDW.  I would hate to have
    to tell a child that those things only happen in commercials.
    
    How do other noters feel?
    
    -Rob
      

    I agree.  Allow me to inject a small dose of reality, however...

    Madison Avenue has *always* portrayed unrealistic situations in an
    effort to sell you their product; why should Disney advertisements
    be handled any differently?  If we revise Disney's ads, let's not
    stop there: fix up those beer commercials which imply that "gorgeous
    female models only go for the guys who drink <brand X> beer; the
    rest of you can go pound sand!".

    Yes, I think this kind of thing is basically dishonest, but caveat
    emptor and all that jazz.

>   Commercials should display what a guest can and probably will do
>   during a trip to WDW.

    Gee, wouldn't *that* be fun?  A 60 second commercial of people standing
    in line, arguing with the kids, etc.	;-)


    FWIW,
    David.

    
    Re: -1
    
    Dave,
    
        The reason why I brought up this issue is that I think Disney does
       show some realistic commercials, and some bogus ones.  I saw one
       last night that I thought was very good.  
    
       I don't think showing people in long lines would bring in the guests
       either!!!
    
       Oh but the way, those beer commercials are quite true to life.
    
       -Rob
    
    

    Rob,
    
    Interestingly enough, although their commercials may be unrealistic at
    times and although we may never ride BTMRR with Goofy or get a big hug
    from Cinderella we all keep going back.
    
    Once people get there, experience The World, then return to reality,
    they can't wait to return.
    
    I'd love to know what the breakdown is every year for repeat visitors.
    
    My guess is that it's over 50%.
    
    Mike

    
    Believe it or not Mike, that was kind of my point.  I don't think 
    Disney needs to resort (no pun intended) to unrealistic commercials.
    The service they provide to their guests is exceptional, people come 
    back, (it is over 50% repeat guests), that is why I sometimes shutter 
    when I see the overblown commercials that are not needed.
    WDW is a fantastic place, worth the price, and worth repeat visits,
    I think it stands on its own without the bogus commercial.  I like the
    slightly more down to earth commercial they are running now.
    
    What kind of a thing were you thinking of with a adult commercial?
    
    -Rob
    
     

    Rob,
    
    Like I had implied the commercials are to draw the first timers and
    maybe encourage repeat visits (by showing new attractions).
    
    I envision a commercial that shows several couples.....a young couple
    in their twenties trying to figure out a place to go on vacation (or
    honeymoon), a middle aged couple (possibly with teenagers), and a
    "Golden Years" aged couple.
    
    In all three cases they are looking for a place to go and they have
    never been to WDW. They all pooh pooh the thought of going because
    they think it's for kids. They all decide to try it "What the heck!
    Let's see what all the hub-bub is about."
    
    We see them having a great time and each couple makes a remark on how
    WDW "isn't just for kids anymore" and the commercial ends with the
    screen divided into thirds and the young couple is going down Space
    Mountain, the middle-aged couple is seen enjoying Catastrophe canyon
    with their two teenagers (bonding going on), and the elderly couple is
    seen taking a picture with Goofy in Mickey's Starland.
    
    The picture then rolls into a ball and skims over the top of Spaceship
    Earth where Mickey is and we hear the commentator say,
    
     "Walt Disney World...isn't about time you tried it?"
    
    Mike

    
    Mike,
    
        I like it, I like it.
    
    
       I don't know moderator/quiz master/advertising exec/
    
       Is there anyhting you can't do?
    
    -Rob
    

    Mike,
    
    	I know... my trip report hasn't been filed... so what am I doing
    replying..... right? (;-)
    
    	And that middle aged couple with teen's are: the Scopa family!!
    with some make-up, to make Mike and his wife look old enough...
    
    	Anything to get back there sooner..
    
    Tony

    
Update on trip reports:

158    23-Jan-1990    Sign-in 1990 WDW Visitors    96     
183    10-Apr-1990    1990 Trip Reports            55 (57.3%)

221     5-Sep-1990    Sign-in 1991 WDW Visitors    84 (57.1%)
237     3-Jan-1991    1991 Trip Reports            48 

243     3-Feb-1991    Sign-in 1992 WDW Visitors    79             
290     3-Jan-1992    1992 Trip Reports            46 (58.2%)

312    25-Jun-1992    Sign-in 1993 WDW Visitors    42
334    18-Jan-1993    1993 Trip Reports            15 (35.7%)

Total Signees   301
Total Reports   164  (54.5%)

Well it looks like less and less people are visiting Orlando. Since we've
started tracking noter visits each year has seen less visits. This is an
obvious result of the economic slowdown and ongoing downsizing of the
company.

 ***************************
 *Sign-in Replies by 13-Apr*
 *                         *
 *      1990  -  70        *
 *      1991  -  49        *
 *      1992  -  57        *
 *      1993  -  42        *
 ***************************

However, most who have been going have been good enough to enter a trip
report. With the numbers being low it's more important now than ever before
to try and get a report in here.

Not only are reports informative but they also help in taking our minds off
of other things.

Mike   

    Mike,
    
    I hate to burst your bubble but upon closer inspection, there have only
    been 6 actual trip reports post to the '93 note (334).  And that
    reduces the percentage down to a measly 14.3%.
    
    This sounds like a job for...  the Trip Report Police!!
    
    - Skip

    You're right Skip. I was counting replies. I may have to do a little
    moderating and eliminate the nonreports.
    
    Mike

Well, you got my interest up so I checked it out further -- we want to be
accurate, right?? :-)  

Of the 42 replies in the sign-in note, 40 are real sign-ins.  Of those 40, 
only 16 should have come and gone to WDW by now.

In the trip report note, only 6 of the 15 replies are reports.  And, of the
six reports, only 2 are by people who signed-in!

So we have either 2 of 16 (if we don't count the folks who didn't sign in), 
or 6 or 20 (if we pretend they signed in).  So our percentage is either 
12.5 or 30.  I say we claim the 30% rate.  Not so good either way...

                                                Tracy

P.S. I guess I should sign in for my trip in August...

    Re: Leslie Krueger's trip report
    
    Well it's nice to know that someone took my advice and tried the 
    Contemporary Resort Buffet. Don't leave Orlando without trying it.
    
    Oh and Leslie.....take some NO-DOZ pills with you next time...
    
          .................for George.
    
    Mike

    	Oops...I'm one who entered a trip report without signing in!
    Didn't realize I'd be messing up anyone's stats! :^)  Shall I do a
    retroactive sign in? :^)

    	amy

    
    
    
    
    
    
    
     Will be appearing at THE LAKE LODGE in Lunenburg,Ma.
    On May 14 from 9:00 to 12:30.  The Lake Lodge is located
    behind Whalom Park on Hollis Rd.  If you plan on coming
    try to get there early as the last time they played there
    they had to turn people away as it got to crowded.
    
    Gerry
    

Hmm, looks like the author of .248 thought he/she was in another notes file...!

							-- Nina

    Gee Ken,
    
    After a long day of baseball and soccer I jump in to do some work,
    check the notesfile and see your report. So much for doing work.
    
    Re: Minivan Deal
    
    That sounds like a decent deal. Others may want to comment on what is
    a decent price for a minivan rental down there.
    
    Re: CBR
    
    I think that making reservations as far in advance as possible is a key
    rule here. Also, connecting rooms are VERY DIFFICULT to get. I'd say
    that you want to get your priorities together and settle on your most
    important one or two and try for those. 
    
    And confirm every month. Ken, they upgraded me last Summer too.
    
    Re: Opening times.
    
    If you want to be early plan on being at the gates 30-45 minutes before
    the advertised opening times.
    
    Re: 3D-Video for EO.
    
    I don't think you can video in 3D can you?
    
    Re: Universe of Energy
    
    It's one of those attractions that grows on you. It's on my son's top
    ten.
    
    Re: Moving luggage.
    
    If at all possible move it yourself...remember Ken's fun.
    
    Re: CBR Chambermaid stuff.
    
    Our maid did the same stuff and even left notes and hid our stuffed
    animals. She got a good tip from me.
    
    Re: Bus vs Car from the CBR
    
    I really feel VERY STRONGLY about driving to TMK from the CBR. If you
    go to Bluebonnet and park near SM in the CR parking lot you'll get
    there even faster than the busses. Plus it's a pleasant walk to TMK
    front gates (5 min) and you get to see bunnies. I haven't seen the TTC
    in 18 years.
    
    Re: SPlash Mountain pictures.
    
    Ken, pretty soon there'll be doing it like DL.
    
    Re: Tiki Birds.
    
    The show will be changing soon...after 30 years it's time for a change.
    
    Re: SpectroMagic
    
    How come Ken? They stopped it for 10 days?
    
    Re: David Bowie Wig
    
    I called it my Garth wig.
    
    Re: Hitchcock at Universal Studios
    
    It's tough to say which kids can handle that show.
    
    Re: Murder She Wrote Post Production
    
    It's pretty good if the performances a topnotch.
    
    Re: Beaches and Cream.
    
    That Arcade next door is on it's way out...they make more money
    slinging burgers and ice cream.
    
    Re: "Ham" castmembers.
    
    Ken, the streetmosphere castmembers are real hams for the camera.
    
    Nice job on the trip report. It brought me about 1400 miles South for 
    about 30 minutes. Glad to see that some of the hints in here paid off.
    
    Mike_who_now_is_thinking_about_his_Beaches_and_Cream_banana_split

    John,
    
    If anything, your next trip should be even better than this last trip.
    
    * * *
    
    Good point regarding insurance.
    
    * * *
    
    If I ever need to rent a car down there I think I'd avoid Alamo and 
    consider National.
    
    * * *
    
    The Sleep Inn huh? What was your originally planned hotel?
    
    * * * 
    
    Too bad about SpectroMagic, "Fantasy...", Beauty & The Beast, and Sea
    World but everyone has to expect that all Orlando attractions are at
    less than 100% except for June-August.
    
    * * *
    
    Re: Illuminations...see my note elsewhere in this conference.
    
    
    I think it's time to make reservations for '97 and a certain Birthday
    Bash ;^)
    
    Mike

    Well, I've done it!  Seeing all this traffic in disney notes has
    prompted me to actually catch up on my trip report reading.  I printed
    out the trip reports and took them home for some "light" reading last
    night.  I'm working backwards from '93 so that I'll the the latest info
    first. I stopped at the "Mother of all Trip reports" at about 2 AM.
    
    
    I've got "it" bad!
    
    I also called the CRO yesterday, got new prices for FW.  I'll post in
    that topic.
    
    John_who_is_now_trying_to_infect_the_family_for_95_(maybe_94_says_my_wife)
    
    ;^)
    

    Re: .257
    
    In '97 I hope to enter the "Gran' Mama' of all Trip Reports."
    
    Mike

    re: Mike Scopa's comments:
    
    - "Priorities for room requests at the CBR":  We did give them specific
    priorities, re-confirmed at each step, and they still didn't hit on any
    of them on the first shot.
    
    - "3D filming at Captain EO":  You are correct, it can't be filmed in
    3D, of course, but supposedly it can be filmed in 2D if one lens from
    the glasses is placed over the camera lens.  I can't confirm this, as I
    didn't video it, just the pre-show (catch a smile).
    
    - "drive to TMK by way of the CR":  I would agree that this is another
    good alternative to get to TMK, I was thinking only of the bus as an
    alternative to the TTC.  Just be sure that you have a Disney resort ID...
    
    - "Spectromagic halted for 10 days?":  Well, I don't know for how long
    it is in hiatus, but it was definitely not run any day during our trip. 
    They even had a special Spectromagic sign at the entrance to the MK
    which was for listeing parade times for each day of the week, and next
    to every day was always "sorry, not being run today" or such.
    
    - "Garth Wig":  Yes, that description would most definitely fit what I
    had on...
    
    - "kids being able to handle the Hitchcock show":  My wife's comments
    after she saw it were that our kids would not have had any problem
    with the show, but most surely would not have enjoyed it as much as
    their chosen alternative - E.T.
    
    re: 334.26
    
    We had an almost identical scenario two years ago, where my son (who
    was 3 at the time) came down with chicken pox three weeks before our
    departure date, but breezed through it.  Unfortunately, one of my
    daughters (who was 6) came down with it two days before departure.  She
    had it a bit worse, but was able to manage fine, and was through it by
    the mid-point of the trip.  Her twin sister came down with it two weeks
    after we were back, and had a horrible, horrible case of it.
    
    "weather in the 90's, with a mid-day shower"  Whew!, were we really in
    the same vicinity at the same time?  I was checking the weather every
    day, and at least according to the local NBC affiliate, the highest
    temperature any day that we were there was 88, and we only saw an
    afternoon shower once, at MGM on Sunday, May 9th.  Maybe we were lucky
    on avoiding the mini-storms?
    
    "Spectromagic and B&TB not running" - Yes, my kids were really bummed
    out too.
    
    Cheers,
    Ken
    

    Ken,
    
    I liked "Capture a Smile" over EO....I think I'll pop in that video 
    tonight and try to "escape" for a few moments.
    
    Mike

    re: .251
    
    >Too bad about SpectroMagic, "Fantasy...", Beauty & The Beast, and Sea
    >World but everyone has to expect that all Orlando attractions are at
    >less than 100% except for June-August.
    
    If you go in the off-season you can increase your odds of most things
    being operational (at least for WDW, I don't know about other places)
    by going just before or just after one of the busier times.  For
    example, you're likely to have no trouble during the weeks after
    Thanksgiving and before Christmas.
    
    You can increase your chances of seeing Spectromagic and fireworks by
    scheduling your trip to span a weekend or two.  The parks are usually
    open later on the weekends so they are able to run the parade and
    fireworks.  Your chances are even better if you include the weekend
    just before or just after one of the busy times.

    I like this topic 'cause it often leads to a "refresher" on certain
    info buried elsewhere in this conference.
    
    Re: Robyn's trip report
    
    If you stay in PO or DL you're pretty close to TMK so if you intend to
    do 99% of your vacationing at the parks then maybe you don't need a
    car.
    
    Those of you who stay on the property and rent a car should drive to
    the parking lot near Space Mountain (Contemporary Resort parking lot)
    and walk to TMK. Don't park in the huge parking lot and deal with the
    TTC or the monorail unless it's your first time down there and you want
    to build the anticipation.
    
    Also, Body Wars is much rougher than Star Tours.
    
    I guess using stamps helps the Turtles handle more kids....hope this
    never happens with the Disney characters.
    
    Shows that should be seen at night are Indy and B&TB...especially in
    the Summer.
    
    Mike

>    If you stay in PO or DL you're pretty close to TMK so if you intend to
>    do 99% of your vacationing at the parks then maybe you don't need a
>    car.
 
    As I stated in my trip report, I think this is indeed true although I
    did find the car handy going to and from the airport.  Since we weren't
    relying on shuttle schedules, I think we got more time at the park
    the first and last days of our trip.  It would seem handy also if you
    were planning any non-Disney related activities.  Next time we may
    stay in a cheaper hotel off-site a couple of days and hit Sea World
    and Universal.  I think if that's the case I may rent again (if I get
    another good deal) but would for the most part park the car at the
    hotel and use Disney transportation when staying on-site.
       
    >Those of you who stay on the property and rent a car should drive to
    >the parking lot near Space Mountain (Contemporary Resort parking lot)
    >and walk to TMK. Don't park in the huge parking lot and deal with the
    >TTC or the monorail unless it's your first time down there and you want
    >to build the anticipation.
    
    Good tip!  I'll remember that next time if I take a car.
    
    >Also, Body Wars is much rougher than Star Tours.
    
    The castmember outside the attraction tried to convince Megann of this
    but as soon as he mentioned that it was similar to Body Wars she wanted
    no part of it.  Being a Star Wars fan, I will definitely try it
    someday, either when she gets older or by myself.
    
    >I guess using stamps helps the Turtles handle more kids....hope this
    >never happens with the Disney characters.
    
    That would be a sad day indeed.  However, as impersonal and tacky as I
    thought it was most of the kids did not seem to mind.  It did also help
    the coordination problem most of the characters have trying to hold
    pens in their "paws".
    
    >Shows that should be seen at night are Indy and B&TB...especially in
    >the Summer.
    
    I can see why this is true for Indy.  It was not quite dark when we saw
    it but late enough to be better than during daylight hours.  I'm not
    sure I see why this is the case for Beauty and the Beast except maybe
    to avoid sitting in the hot sun while waiting and watching?  Is there
    some other reason?
    
    
    Robyn
    

    >I guess using stamps helps the Turtles handle more kids....hope this
    >never happens with the Disney characters.
    
>>  That would be a sad day indeed.  However, as impersonal and tacky as I
>>  thought it was most of the kids did not seem to mind.  It did also help
>>  the coordination problem most of the characters have trying to hold
>>  pens in their "paws".

    Well, much as I personally dislike the TMNT, I have to say that they 
    are unlike the other characters in that they *don't* have paws (or
    they didn't the first year they were there).  Paws can manipulate 
    a pen easier (no much) than those three-fingers foam costumes.  When
    I was there with my nephew three years ago, they kept dropping the 
    pens because they couldn't grip them.  (I really hate defending them!!)
    
    >Shows that should be seen at night are Indy and B&TB...especially in
    >the Summer.
    
>>  I can see why this is true for Indy.  It was not quite dark when we saw
>>  it but late enough to be better than during daylight hours.  I'm not
>>  sure I see why this is the case for Beauty and the Beast except maybe
>>  to avoid sitting in the hot sun while waiting and watching?  Is there
>>  some other reason?
    
    I'll have to make sure I see Indy at night next year!  And avoiding the 
    hot sun is a good enough reason to skip *any* show at that spot in MGM!
    There really isn't any shade there.

    Susan

You miss the black light and fire effects of B&TB during the day

    Re: .266
    
    That was my other reason.
    

    We're (Noters) not going as much as we used to:
    
    1990 WDW Visitors    84
    1991 WDW Visitors    76
    1992 WDW Visitors    73
    1993 WDW Visitors    48 (so far)
    1994 WDW Visitors     3 (so far)
    
    Hopefully that will change.
    
    Mike

    re:334.45 Parking lot view for high price
    
    When we stayed at DL last June we wanted a king-sized bed room with a 
    water view. When we reserved and asked about the view, we were told that 
    ALL king-sized bed rooms were in the top price range regardless of view.
    From your experience, it would seem that the same is true at PO. (We 
    requested a prticular room at PO in March. My fingers are crossed, but 
    I'm not optimistic).
    
    Linda 
    

Hmmm, so it wasn't just me.  King Size Bed == Highest price
regardless of view at PO, CBR, and probably DL.  Price according
to View at most others.

I suspect this tidbit WON'T be appearing in any edition of the
Official Guide to WDW anytime soon...

Bill

    I'm still working on my trip report, but I must say that the Beach Club
    is great!!  Our only complaint is that the staff there had a knack of
    coming to the door when we were either napping or naked....or both!!
    
    Those Beach Club robes sure came in handy.  Alfred and I took turns
    donning one to answer the constant knocks.  They wanted to turn down
    our beds at around 5, when we were usually showering for dinner.  They
    were often cleaning our room at 2ish, when we came in from the heat for
    an afternoon nap.  Ofcourse I didn't mind the knocking when they were
    delivering our daily present!!  
    
    Like Bill, I also headed to MGM with visions of cinnamon buns dancing
    in my head only to find out that Starring Rolls is located behind the
    fence where the Twilight Zone Tower of Terror is being constructed. 
    bummer!!
    
    Kristen
    

    You can request the time that you want your room cleaned at the Y&BC. 
    I requested it in the morning before 10:00 for the duration (2weeks) of
    our trip.  Our room was always made up if we came back at lunchtime. 
    We always put the do not disturb sign up when we are in the room.  That
    way, they do not knock.  We would typically come back to the room in
    the early afternoon for our daily nap, then we would go out to dinner
    or whatever, whe we would return at night, our room was made up again,
    including fresh towels or whatever, beds were turned down, etc.
    
    The Y&BC is still my favorite hotel that I have ever stayed in.  I
    especially like the Beach Club, but both are good.
    
    /Jim Pappas

    
    I found myself agreeing with a lot of the comments in Bill Abrams trip
    report - well done.
    
      o Narcoossee's - our favorite too, never had a bad meal there.
    
      o check-in.  The out-by-11 in-by-3 has always been a pain for us.  We
        get there early (why waste a Disney day), and they never seem to
        have our room ready until exactly 3:00 pm (once later!).
    
      o Photos - I do the sort same thing with speeds!  One day will be 
        "indoor day (I find 1600 ASA to be best for inside rides with
        acceptable grain for snapshots).  Next day will be "day" - partial
        to 25 speeds here - Ektar or Kodachrome (slides).  My wife hates it
        when I won't take pix of the park on "indoor" day, though!
    
        Slides, btw, are *terrific* ways to see Disney again, if you're 
        into that sort of thing - just like being there with a better sense
        of *size*.
    
      o Dining has become our biggest source of pleasure at Disney.  
    
    - Sean
    

    
    I have to agree with Sean. Kodachrome 64 or 25 slides are great and a
    nice way to relive the memories of WDW/DL in a scale larger than a
    snapshot.
    
    My SO also didn't like it when I had slide film in the camera and was
    limited to outdoor only shots so I got her a point-and-shoot for
    herself to shoot print film to her hearts content either indoor or
    outdoor.
    
    I think it's time to pull the screen out and review some of those
    memories !!!
    
    George

    RE: Whipple_Ungarean Trip report
    
        1. Are you sure the bus left you off at the TTC? Did you take
           a bus marked "Ticket & Transportation Center" instead of one
           marked "MAgic Kingdom?"
    
        2. So that's where Len Goldberg ended up.
    
        3. D-Zerta is dangerous. Everyone gains 5 lbs. just from walking
           through the door. Don't leave Pleasure Island without visiting
           D-Zerta.
    
        4. Seeing 75% of everything you want to see in only 4 days is doing
           pretty good.
    
     

    Yep, we took the bus marked "Magic Kingdom" or "MGM" or "EPCOT",
    depending on which day it was.  Anyway, when we took the MK bus, it
    dropped us off in a huge parking lot, from which we had to take the
    monorail (through the Contemporary) to the MK park entrance.  I thought
    the parking lot was the TTC - did I call it the wrong thing?
    
    So we know what happened to Len - but I didn't see Linda or the kids. 
    Maybe they were in the big mask on the wall?
    
    "75%" of Disney isn't enough!  Now where's my Birnbaum....

    Hmmm, I'm gonna have to check my bus schedules. Does this mean that the 
    Hotels in the Plaza do not have bus service to the Bus Depot at the
    front of The Magic Kingdom?
    
    Mike

    re: 334.49, Whipple_Ungarean Trip Report
    
    >>Portobello Yacht Club:  Just thinking about their complimentary 
    Elephant Garlic (let alone the rest of their food) is making me very
    hungry right about now!  
    
    >>Adventurer's Club:  It sounds like you may have hit an "off" night,
    or an "off" cast, or both.  The overall "experience" seems to be highly 
    dependent on several factors, the biggest one being not only who is in
    the cast on a given night, but who is playing what roles that night. 
    It can range from gut-breaking hilarious to a deadpan "huh?", and
    anything in between.  
    
    >>Crowds at the MK:  I've also noticed on my last few visits that the MK
    seems to be habitually more crowded than either MGM or EPCOT,
    especially on days when on-property guests get in early.
    
    >>Bus versus Car:  My subjective personal suggestion is to ALWAYS use
    your own car if time is at all important to you, with the possible
    exception of taking the "V" bus to Pleasure Island and back in the 
    evening, when it sure is nice to not have to worry about driving anywhere 
    yourself afterwards!
    

    Reply to 227.278
    
    We stayed at The Grosvenor.  For us, the bus was a big purple and green
    monster with the number "5" in a circle on it.  On the side it said in
    big letters "Disney Village Hotels" or something like that.
    
    We noticed other buses that were a bit more subdued in color ;-), just
    white with red lettering that said "Disney".  Those may have stopped
    right at the Magic Kingdom, but we also saw plenty of them in the same
    parking lot we were dropped off at.

    M-L's Trip Report
    
    Pretty enjoyable reading.
    
    Glad to hear about the ringworms.
    
    Burger King....brrr. Last time I went into a Burger King or Mac's was
    in Jacksonville, Fla. 'cause I got lost and the kids were hungry.
    
    Nice testimonial on the "dive" with the vibrator.
    
    SO did you time that tub drain with a calendar? "Gee honey it took only
    two days for the drain to clear this time!"
    
    Gee M-L you didn't mention how you walked past Aloha Isle....and the
    elusive Dole Whip.
    
    Thanks for the PostCard ;^) Will it have a (snicker) N.H> postmark on
    it?
    
    I'm with you on Miss Piggy. I support Kermit when he says, "I only
    touch pork with a fork!"
    
    Those rude people speaking a foreign language....were they
    Bra....nahhhh couldn't be.
    
    Lost 5 lbs huh? Well it must have been from the shivering from your
    cold pool. You must have been burning off calories. Plus you didn't
    find Dole Whip.
    
    Very enjoyable.
    
    Mike

    Mike, oh MIKE... you already have the postcard.. remember??  And it had
    better have been postmarked from Orlando.... or at least Kissemee!

    I *DID NOT* walk past Dole Whip... I went through the tunnel to
    Frontierland, and bypassed/missed it completely!  Boy am I kicking
    myself for that one too!!!!  I WANT A DOLE WHIP!!!!!  Although, IF I
    had found it, would I now be able to say I lost 5 lbs.???  Probably
    not!  Gained 5 + if everything I hear is correct!!!

    Nope... didn't time the drain.... BUT I did wait until that night for
    my shower!  Between Sarah and Steven there was over 1/2 a tub full of
    water!  I didn't think it could take one more shower!  WHAT A DIVE!!!!

    I really do want to go back.... but will wait and see if the "new"
    ticketing garbage works itself out!

    I miss the sunshine!!!!

    And the rude people were speaking Fre.... oh, never mind!!  It was a
    horrible lunch, but luckily the only really rude people we had to
    associate with!  They didn't even smile and nod as we sat down and said
    Hello!!!  And when they left, there was no tip left either... at least
    none that we saw, and they waiter busted his hinney getting them every
    little thing they wanted!  He took their money for the bill and
    returned with the change, and Poppa put it all back in his pocket!
    
    
    M-L

    There wasn't a "leader" who waved a fla....nawwwww, I'm still not
    cured.

    re 334.53, kids at WDW/
    
    having been to DL with no [maybe just a couple] kids at all, park
    closed for DECUS attendies only, I have to say its the most boring
    place on Earth.  imo, kids and crowds add to the excitment.
    
    ed
    

    I'm with you on that point Ed!
    
    Mike

Jeesh, it's only been 9 months since I revisited this data.
        
Update on trip reports:

158    23-Jan-1990    Sign-in 1990 WDW Visitors    96     
183    10-Apr-1990    1990 Trip Reports            55 (57.3%)

221     5-Sep-1990    Sign-in 1991 WDW Visitors    84 (57.1%)
237     3-Jan-1991    1991 Trip Reports            48 

243     3-Feb-1991    Sign-in 1992 WDW Visitors    79             
290     3-Jan-1992    1992 Trip Reports            46 (58.2%)

312    25-Jun-1992    Sign-in 1993 WDW Visitors    77
334    18-Jan-1993    1993 Trip Reports            53 (68.7%)

336    17-Feb-1993    Sign-in 1994 WDW Visitors    20
393     6-Jan-1994    1994 WDW Trip Reports         0
 
Total Signees   336
Total Reports   202   (60.1% up from 54.5%) <= Not counting 1994 of course!

Hmmm, the number of signees didn't drop by much and more and more
noters are coming through with trip reports. I guess more and
more of you are realizing how helpful and therapeutic these
reports are to everyone.

Here's hoping that 1994 brings in 100 signees and 100 trip
reports.

 ***************************
 *Sign-in Replies by 6-Jan *
 *                         *
 *      1990  -   0        *
 *      1991  -  21        *
 *      1992  -  20        *
 *      1993  -  10        *
 *      1994  -  20        *
 ***************************

    Understandably the number of people planning trips for '93 went down
    but everyone seems to feel a bit optimistic as the number of signee
    entries to date for '94 trips is double what it was for '93 trips at 
    this time last year.
     
    
Mike   

     
    In Bill Abrams 1994 WDW trip report he was discussing seeing the
    Radiothon at the Adventurer's Club and being suprised at being
    ushered outside after it was over....
    
    I just wanted to point out that it is an effective way of moving large
    numbers of people from the main Club floor out of the club.....they can
    pack quite a lot of people into the 'show rooom' when it's a busy
    night.  One pleasant side effect is that if you time it right and
    see the late Radiothon you'll get ushered out into the main area
    in front of the stage just minutes before the midnight festivities occur.
    
    Also, when IS Tomorrowland supposed to be completed?  Our trip is
    scheduled for late May 1995....I would expect they'd have it all ready
    in time for the 1995 summer crowd?
    
    The Cold:  I remember going when I was about 10, the MK was all that
    was there.  We camped (cabover camper) in one of the 'beside the orange 
    grove' campgrounds, and it was COLD (icicles on the oranges, cold).  I 
    remember  the fireworks we briefly glimpsed from under the main street 
    awnings before dashing back in to get warm again.  I also remember not 
    getting to ride 20'000 leagues (probably because of the cold). It took 
    14 years for me to go back, and we headed to 20'000 leagues first thing 
    into MK.  Now, whenever we go back I MAKE my wife ride 20'000 leagues, 
    you never know for sure that you'll get a chance on the next visit. 8^)
    
    --Bert

    The process of clearing the room (library) at the Adventurer's CLub is
    indeed a standard new practice, as I found out the hard way two weeks
    ago.  They WILL let you circle back around into the main salon by
    taking the first left past the library entrance door if you choose, but
    the place has become so popular that "Nash" informed me they had to
    attempt to cycle the guests.  Thus, unless you either know to re-enter
    through the back corridor (which goes past the bathrooms), or ask about
    it, you get ushered out after each main show in the Library.
    
    Cheers,
    Ken
    
                                                                

Bill,

Is the Lake Buana Vista Comfort Inn the same as the Crossroads Comfort 
Inn?

    This question is for Ed Badger:
    
    Do you think the lack of lines had to do with New Hampshire school
    vacation being out of synch with the rest of the country?
    
    Thanks,
    
    Jane

    hard to say.  our entries spanned both weeks.  one week was in sync
    with mass.   it was dissappointing in a way.  there is interesting
    material in preshows that gets missed.  the whole entry in star tours
    is lost.  you loose the warm up effect.
    
    I forgot, the hall of presidents.  worth missing.  I don't know who
    wrote the speach slick willie spoke, but it was in bad taste.  It made
    it sound like America was the only country that could solve the world's
    ills.  I attemded with people from another country, they also agreed,
    but did not say anything until I said I was ashamed of the speech.
    The narrator is also BAD.   I could only gag until I got out of the
    exhibit.  film was changed.  exhibit changed.  don't waste your time.
    of course, IMO.
    
    oh ya, one other item from another trip report, cost cutting.  I did
    not notice any attempts at this other than the announced layoffs
    ;-(  240 jobs, while I was there.
    ed
    

    re: 393.8
    
    Paul, 
    
    Did you happen to notice what was in the building where the Studio 
    Showcase used to be?
    
    I had read in Birnbaum's that the Twilight Zone Tower of Terror is
    going to take photos of the elevator occupants as it starts to fall. 
    There is a lot of space devoted to viewing of pictures, ordering and 
    paying for them, and picking them up, plus a gift shop and restrooms 
    at Splash Mountain in the Magic Kingdom. Propbably that is what will
    occupy the extra room in the structure. 
    
    Your trip report got the -itis going worse than ever!
    
    Linda_who_is_10_days_and_counting_from_arrival_at_Port_Orleans
    

    Does a trip, even one to Disneyworld, ever live up to the expectations
    of the trip?
    
    A colleague of mine swears that the planning provides the vast majority
    of the pleasure of any trip.  I agree that planning is lots of fun, but
    it's disturbing to me to think that the trip isn't as fun as the
    planning, so I reject that idea.  But maybe it's true.
    
    I hear people who can't wait to get to Disneyworld in here, and others
    who say they're Disney-ed out when they get back.  Are they the same
    people?
    
    Do the trip reports reflect the enthusiasm expressed in the planning
    notes, in your opinion?  Or maybe once you're back in your cold home 
    town it's hard to be enthusiastic about anything?
    
    Everyone going seems SO psyched.  Coming back it seems like it never
    matched up.
    
    What do you think?
                                              

    I think many people including myself have a tendency to expect more
    than what is realistic for any trip. so expectations are many times
    not met because they were too high to begin with. Of course all of
    the advertising for the perfect vacation, or cruise or whatever 
    doesn't help etc. The ads always show all the fun of the rides etc.
    They don't seem to dwell to much on hour long waits in the hot sun
    etc.
    
    My first trip was in 83 as a tag along with our in laws. It was one
    of these low budget tours in Oct. in cheap hotel in Kissimmee.
    Basically this was the most enjoyable time ever at WDW and other
    Orlando attractions. We had good weather, small crowds, short lines
    etc. Our room was simple but we were never in it much except to sleep.
    We were on the other side of Kissimmee but getting to WDW was
    no problem, easy drive in car etc. Low traffic no problems.
    
    My only complaint of our first trip was the fact you needed another
    couple of days off to recover. So much walking etc. My impression
    was it was a very fun and exhausting  vacation.
    
    Most of our later trips always came during the Easter 2 week window
    and the crowds and terrible lines took all of the fun out of it.
    The extra activities etc. that you have during the busy times
    do not come close to making up for the crowds. But other people
    like crowds I guess, many people enjoy these times.
    
    I could see his/her point on planning because at that point you
    are imagining the fun without the reality that it is not all
    fun and no vacation is perfect.
    
    The higher the expectations the greater the chance of being
    disappointed. 
    
    One thing I feel that can help with any vacation regardless of
    where you go, is to remember nothing is perfect and things
    will happen. When something happens try to move on and forget it.
    You usually have a lot invested in a vacation and many times only
    one shot in the year to enjoy so do not let unexpected events
    ruin it. 
    
    				Harold
    
    

    As it was my trip report that seems to have sparked this discussion
    maybe I should add a couple of points. My first visit in '89 was the
    first family trip to the States, and our first trip to any Disney
    resort, in fact our first trip to any sort of theme park at all. We
    were all knocked out by the whole experience. Since then I've split up
    with my wife so there was a certain sadness attached to this latest
    trip as a result. However what I really felt was that I found some of
    the 'sugar sweetness' of Disney somewhat too much now. Some of the
    marketing is getting a tad more agressive, the cost of every thing just
    a bit higher (maybe that's general in the US now as a result of
    exchange rates) and so much is geared up to extract those extra $$$. I
    still love the atmosphere in the parks and would go again, but not for
    a few years.
    
    Richard 
    

    
    Re .294
    
    	Harold, I couldn't have said it better! I'm heading down south
    	in about a month and I personally don't care if it rains every
    	day - I'm on vacation and out of here! A 1 hour line beats a
    	down computer, no pront queues and screaming customers ANY DAY!
    
    	A week away from Digital is my idea of paradise - if that week
    	happens to be sunny and warm, so much the better. Just think
    	of what you'd probably be doing if you were at work and the 
    	lines won't seem quite so long any more........
    
    		Heidi 

    If we talk of expectations about our upcoming trips, I would have to 
say that the part I am most looking forward to is being with my wife 
and NO kids.

Most likely walking around doing what we want to, acting like college 
kids, holding hands.  You know, those few moments away from work and 
the kids.

Now, put this in a location that in itself is far from the realities 
of life and just happens to come right after a long business trip and 
is on her birthday and I hope we have the makings of a GOOOOD holiday.

8-)
Alan

I have considered leaving a day early so I could visit Disneyland, 
then Tokyo Disneyland while I am in Japan, followed up with WDW BUT 
I am afraid I really will be Disneyed out.  Maybe just the land of the 
raising sun and WDW.  3 parks in 90 days may be taking this to a new 
high.

Re: Note 227.292 by MAYES::GIBSON

Linda,

There is now an arcade (video games) in the building across from Muppetvision
3D that once housed the Studio Showcase.

As for the Tower Hotel (which houses the Tower of Terror) unless Disney has
done one heck of a good job at forced perspective this place is every bit as
large as any 500 room hotel. With that much space you could put all the rest-
rooms and gift shops at the Studios in the one building and still have room 
to spare. 

Mind you, I didn't say that the Tower of Terror WASN'T the only thing in the
building. Just that I was wondering what else COULD be in there (remember, it's
13 stories tall and all the things you mentioned would be on the first floor)
    
>Your trip report got the -itis going worse than ever!

Writting it did the same thing for me, and I JUST got back! :-)

Paul.

    It's exciting to plan a trip because of the anticipation that builds
    with each planning task. Also, planning a Disney trip offers you
    something to look forward to day in and day out. That in itself is
    a big factor for me.
    
    The pre-trip excitement (during the planning) is usually heightened for
    repeat trips. I think this is because with each trip you learn more and
    more how to make the best of your time (and money) down there.
    
    Sure withdrawal is tough after you return but that is real strong for
    about a week. The pre-trip excitement starts when you first make the
    decision to go.
    
    Mike

    
 Well I revisited this data and came up with a better idea as to
 the real numbers for signees and trip reports. Here are the
 numbers:

 Note   Start Date     Note title                  Actuals
    
 158    23-Jan-1990    Sign-in 1990 WDW Visitors    85     
 183    10-Apr-1990    1990 Trip Reports            41 (48%)

 221     5-Sep-1990    Sign-in 1991 WDW Visitors    80 
 237     3-Jan-1991    1991 Trip Reports            40 (50%)
 
 243     3-Feb-1991    Sign-in 1992 WDW Visitors    72             
 290     3-Jan-1992    1992 Trip Reports            33 (46%)
 
 312    25-Jun-1992    Sign-in 1993 WDW Visitors    71
 334    18-Jan-1993    1993 Trip Reports            32 (42%)

 336    17-Feb-1993    Sign-in 1994 WDW Visitors    25
 393     6-Jan-1994    1994 WDW Trip Reports         7 (28%)
 
 Total Signees   333
 Total Reports   153   (46%)

 Less people going each year and certainly less trip reports. The
 info below indicates we have kept a pace with last year.

 ***************************
 *Sign-in trips by March 23*
 *                         *
 *      1990  -  50        *
 *      1991  -  35        *
 *      1992  -  47        *
 *      1993  -  35        *
 *      1994  -  33        *
 ***************************

 There are those "read-only" people who will read the conference,
 extract information to help them plan a trip, and never enter a
 note. It's a shame these people aren't willing to share their
 experiences with us. Hello out there....we don't bite. 

 I'll revisit this data in late May or early June. I'm guessing
 we'll have over 50 entries in 336 by then and we'll be in double
 digits on trip reports.

 Mike   

    I guess there could be less entries, both sign-in & trip reports, cos
    there's less of us in Digital. I leave on Thursday. I said that I
    thought my last trip report would be my last trip report ? B^). So long
    everyone.
    
    Richard

    Ellen Blake's trip report has me wondering about something.
    
    If I stay at the CBR can I go to the Y & BC and use the International
    Gateway to get into World Showcase? I'd like to do this in the early
    morning.
    
    Mike

>>    If I stay at the CBR can I go to the Y & BC and use the International
>>    Gateway to get into World Showcase? I'd like to do this in the early
>>    morning.
    
You've just discovered the M.O. we used on our last trip, every day that we
went to EPCOT.  Of course, it's a pretty good walk from the parking lot
through the Y&BC over to the gateway, but it's pleasant and uncrowded.

Brian W.

~    Ellen Blake's trip report has me wondering about something.
~    
~    If I stay at the CBR can I go to the Y & BC and use the International
~    Gateway to get into World Showcase? I'd like to do this in the early
~    morning.
~    
Be aware, though, that off-seaon's later opening times apply only at the main 
entrance.  This was a real hassle for us staying at the Beach Club.  We
couldn't get in till 10am.  At that time, if you wanted to get in for early
opening (resort guests only) you had to DRIVE to the EPCOT parking area.
That's becasue there is no bus from YBC hotels to EPCOT.  Hope they will
find away to open teh International gate early off-season.

Bill A.

    
    I stayed at the Beach Club 1/9/94-1/16/94 and used the International
    Gateway for the early opening.  You had to show a valid resort ID along
    with your pass.  World Showcase was not part of the early opening so
    as soon as you walked from the Gateway to where the bridge goes over to
    France, you had to board a double decker to be brought over to Future
    World.  Hopefully Bill's trip was before mine and this is their
    solution to the hassles he faced.  I would think that any resort guest,
    not just Y&BC guests could use the Gateway.
    
    Rose

    I'm just looking for the quickest way to get to the World Showcase when
    Epcot opens. I usually head to Port of Entry and board the first boat
    that heads over. 
    
    First attraction we do is American Adventure. It's great. Maybe
    there'll be as many as 25 people there.
    
    Mike

    One thing I would add to my recent trip report: I had alot more fun
    when I gave up and said "OK, I admit that I CAN NOT see all of Disney
    World in a week!".
    
    Jane
    

    Julie...wow. I got tired from reading your trip. You sure packed a lot
    of vacation in that week.
    
    I have some questions:
    
           - Was Magic Journeys (TMK) closed? I noticed you didn't do that
             attraction.
    
           - How long of a walk was it from your Hotel to Epcot?
    
           - Glad to see B&TB was still on during your vacation. I'm sure
             you were happy too. What was the latest show? I ask because of
             the heat factor.
    
           - Was that your first meal at Alfredo's? Next time try Tony's 
             and tell me which one you like the best.
    
           - You said the Aladdin Character Buffet was the best buffet.
             What was it about this buffet that you liked so much?
    
           - Was Voyage of The Little Mermaid closed? I'm sure Lauren would
             have liked that attraction.
    
           - That Mickey and Minnie Character at the GF sounded like the
             food was great but the atmosphere wasn't. Do you recommend it? 
             If not, why not?
    
           - You liked Beaches and Cream a lot didn't you?
    
           - I forgot to tell you how to get rid of that Dole Whip
             aftertaste......have another Dole Whip ;^).
    
           - Do you want to be placed in the "I don't recommend the Sci-Fi
             Theater Restaurant" column?
    
           - Did you see anything interesting in TomorrowLand?
    
           - How did Sunset Bld. and "The Tower" look?
    
           - Where exactly is Innoventions being built?
    
           - Finally, you didn't get a chance to take in the Contemporary
             buffet did you? Next time.
    
    Good trip report.
    
    Mike

    re:308
    
    Mike, 
    
    Innoventions is going to be in the refurbished Communicore West. The
    entire building was closed and under construction when we were there 
    in March, but there were signs outside advertising the coming new
    attraction(s) inside. There wasn't enough done to get any idea of the
    finsihed product.  
    
    Linda
                      

    Communicore West is....hmmmm...right side as you walk into Epcot
    because you enter from the North.
    
    I'm thinking the finished product will have the same feel as
    Communicore.
    
    Mike

  Another question for Julie.

   Can you explain further the wristbands for the pool?

   Are they only available for Y&BC guests?  Is this how they are enforcing
   the pool for hotel quests only?  

   Thanks,

   Marilyn

> Another question for Julie.
    
    Well, I'm not Julie but I'll answer anyway.

>   Can you explain further the wristbands for the pool?
>
>   Are they only available for Y&BC guests?  Is this how they are enforcing
>   the pool for hotel quests only?  
    
    The wrist bands are made of some sort of plastic-coated paper.  I think
    you take your Y&BC resort id to the shop in the center of the pool area to
    get wrist bands.  They go on in such a way that you can't easily re-use
    them, they tend to get ruined when you take them off.  I think I got mine
    off without destroying it.  They may be color coded for use on different
    days but probably aren't.
    
    The bands are available to Y&BC guests only.  You must be wearing one
    to use the slide, get towels or borrow life-jackets.  So, yes, this is
    how they are enforcing the pool for hotel guests only rule.  However, if
    you know someone staying at the Y&BC, it's quite easy to go to the pool
    as their guests, right Bill?
    
    Ruth
    
    PS - A special thank you to Bill and Diane Abrams for inviting the
         Lowell family to join them for a swim at the Y&BC.  It was one of
         our favorite trip days.

Mike, the walk along the International Gateway to the ticket gate is 5 
minutes.

B&TB latest show while we were there was 5:30pm.  I'm sure this summer 
they'd have a later show.

We ate at Alfredo's when we were in Epcot 4 years ago.  Loved it then 
and loved is now.  Maybe next time will try Tony's.

The reason I liked Aladdin Character Buffet was the FOOD.  They had 
cheese and mushroom omlettes (family strle), cheese blitzes (sp), never 
had these before -- awesome, and everything was fresh.  The service was 
great, and the personalities of the chacters made for a fun time.

You must have missed that section of my report, we did Voyage of The 
Little Mermaid the day we did the Aladdin character breakfast.  Yes, we 
really did like this, but Muppets 3D won out over anything at MGM.

Mickey and Minnie Character at the GF had great food.  No one would ever 
leave there saying they were hungry.  The kids buffet had pizza, 
hotdogs, grilled cheese, macaroni and cheese, chicken tenders and potato 
puffs.  The adult side had steamship round roast beef, baked ham, all 
kinds of pastas, salads, cold strawberry soup, hot cream of brocolli 
soup and basic other stuff.  The atmosphere is noisy cause you have all 
these excited kids, carnival music was blasting from the front of the 
restaurant, and you tend to eat faster in that type of environment.  I'd 
definiately do this again.  It's great to get to hug Minnie and Mickey 
and not have to wait in a 15 minutes line to do so.  Also, everyone who 
worked thre are very nice.

I'm trying to duplicate that Brownie Giant ice cream we had Beaches and 
Cream.  Yes, we really enjoyed it here

Yes, a definite "thumbs down" on Sci-Fi.  I know that same week friends 
of mine went and really liked it.  Yea, the atmosphere is great but 
pooey on the food.

Didn't even look down Sunset Bld.  "The Tower" looks huge and we could 
still see the scafolding up around the top.

We'll take in the Contemporary buffet next time.  A week just isn't long 
    enough to do everything, but we pretty much covered what we needed and
    wanted to see.  I had an itinerary made out before we went down.

Marilyn, the reason for the wrist bands is to identify hotel guests 
only.  The lifeguard at the towel hut was putting the bands on us.  She 
put them on tight enough so that we had to cut them off.  They were not 
generous about giving out extras -- maybe since it was such a crowded 
week.
    
    

General comment:  I'm so glad we told the kids back in December we were going.  It gave them something to look forward to and get excited in the 
planning.  Waiting til right before would have been hard, because your 
week goes by so fast -- and then it's over.

                                             

    Here are a few comments that come to mind after reading the Sutton
    Family Trip Report:
    
      - When in The Magic Kingdom and planning to see SpectroMagic and
        Fantasy In The Sky remember that right after the parade the 
        crowd migrates towards the front of the castle. Depending upon
        where you are for the parade you may not be able to move too far
        before Tink starts the show.
    
      - I've heard several people mention the CBR Mugs being used at OPR.
        The big question is whether or not these can be used for drinks.
        Has anyone asked this question? Sounds like an "Ask the Castmember"
        question for me.
    
      - The Beauty & The Beast Stage Show will hopefully be moving to a 
        Sunset Blvd. theater that provides shading for everyone. If you
        cannot see the show at night (best for SFX) see it when heat and
        humidity is not so uncomfortable (early in the day, cloudy day).
    
      - The Diamond Horseshoe Revue apparently has discontinued offering
        sandwiches. Too bad...it was a cheap lunch for the family.
    
      - I have to mention this little tidbit. I never eat at the Odyssey
        Restaurant in Epcot. Can anyone guess why?
    
    Nice trip report.
    
    Mike

    Another comment on the Sutton family trip report:
    
    I believe the fishing line strung up around Old Port Royale is
    intended to discourage birds from flying (and using the people
    and tables for target practice) in that area.  I guess they can't
    see the fishing line, fly into it and decide it's not a pleasant
    place to be.
    
    Ruth

    Didn't discourage the birds, from what we could tell.  They must have
    become accustomed to the height of the lines, and figured out how to
    get around them.  Lots of "moochers" around the tables, cleaning up
    after folks had left.  The ducks wandered up from the water, as well.
    
    Gee, Mike - might it be the clientele of the Odyssey that keeps you
    away? (-:
    
    - John

    >>>Gee, Mike - might it be the clientele of the Odyssey that keeps you
    >>>away? (-:
    
       Gee John is it that obvious? 

    I guess all of us that have eaten at the Odyssey should now feel like
    scum. :-]

    Here's an excerpt from a message I received from a WDW cast member
    regarding certain factions who visit Orlando.
    
    ******************************************************************
    
    As far as foreigners go, management tells us PATIENCE, PATIENCE,
    PATIENCE. We have a hard time with them because they do not speak
    English, they are VERY RUDE, and a lot of them steal. (the Brazillians).
    
    And it isn't just in WDW. I live close to Disney, so at night, (I see
    them) come and bombard the K-Marts, grocery stores, and other large stores.
    At times there may be 200 of them in the grocery store, and they act like
    they have never been to a store before.
    
    They open packages of food; throw food and containers on the floor,
    and ram locals with their shopping carts. And these are 16-30 year olds.
    
    Jennifer
    
    ******************************************************************
    
    We can fix that....just have the Orlando Police Department establish
    an officer exchange program with.....
    
                    ........Singapore.

I've been thinking this for a while, so let me bring my thoughts to light,
we should be more understanding, value differences [PC term] of the Brazillians.
we have many fine associates in digital that live and work there.  Perhaps
they too read this notesfile.
They are more visible due to their clothes and travel in groups, but I have
had the pleasure[?] of being around rude, unthinking people at WDW that were
not from a different country.
rather than blame a people, I'd blame a travel agent who set up expectations 
wrong, or failed to enlighten these people.
ed

    re: .319, .320
    
    Whenever I've gone to WDW, I've always noticed that there have been at 
    least two groups of Brazilian tourists around.  But I have personally
    had very few problems with these groups.  I realize that groups in a
    foreign country would normally try to stick together.  As a result of
    this, I've had people try to cut into lines to be with their friends. 
    But I've had worse encounters with Americans and people from that
    country that houses Euro-Disney.
    
    My most lasting memory of Brazilian tourists is from a rainy-day parade
    in the MK.  We arrived late and did not have a good view for my young
    daughter.  Two teenage girls with matching yellow tee shirts got up
    from the curb and gave their dry spots to my daughter and my wife,
    spots they had been saving for themselves in the rain.  A very classy
    move.  At the time, I was more impressed because they were teenagers
    rather than because they were Brazilian.
    
    --Jay
    

    My purpose in putting that note in there was to give everyone an idea
    of how a cast member views this problem.
    
    These are her words and I'll be the first to point out that the points
    made through her words do not mean that all tourists from certain
    countries are a problem.
    
    Just keep in mind that the cast members are quite aware of certain type
    of behavior. Jay's note brings up a good point. Respect starts at home.
    
    Mike
    
    

    393.15 - John Ferlan's trip report
    
    "some people leave their manners at the front gate... I'd swear some
    people were raised by Neanderthals..."
    
    When we were there in April, noticed the same thing.  The worst
    offenders were people with cam-corders (yes, we had one, too).  But so
    many people just shoved their way up front to tape a show, showing no
    concern for anyone behind them.  This was really irritating since we
    made sure not to obstruct or be in the way of anyones view.
    
    Also, reading your report made me more aware of why I would never want
    to travel with another couple and kids.
    
    Your comment on Thomas Cook, they did this to my bother and the couple
    they went down with -- he said that this was a real pain.  This is a
    good point, that anyone booking with another couple should indicate
    they want separate bills.  This is something the Travel Agent should
    have handled for you.
    
    The stroller situation -- I think any kid 5 and under should use one,
    even for part of the day.  We saw more tired kids being dragged about.
    Their legs are little and just can't keep up with an adult.  Walking
    all day is tiring for everyone.
    
    With the exception of the little tiff, sounded like you all had a
    really good time.
    
    Julie
    

    Julie,
    
    Your point on people with videocameras obstructing other people is well
    taken. I try to put myself in spots where I know I won't bother other
    people. 
    
    When I taped VOTLM I sat in the last row. When I taped SpectroMagic I
    did it while standing next to a pole.
    
    Mike

    
    Actually as it turns out, taping from further back is better for a lot
    of the shows...   I had a camcorder and always tried to make sure I 
    wasn't in someone else's way...  WHen I was closer to some stages, it
    was harder to follow the video since there's so much action you have
    to move in more 'jerky motions' than normally... From further back, if
    I wanted to zoom I could...
    
    We did have a good time (other than the blasted heat/humidity)... And 
    you're right, younger kids should be in strollers because they *do* get 
    tired...  I would suggest bringing your own stroller though... @ $5/day
    (+$1 which you do get back), you could *BUY* a cheap umbrella stroller
    if you're there more than 4 days...   Plus, it's a great place to put
    your stuff into as well... 
    
    
    John
    

    Just thought I'd let everyone know that I'm working feverishly on "The
    Grandmother of All Trip Reports" and that it's taking a bit longer than
    I had expected.
    
    I am about 90% done with the first draft. I expect this draft to be
    done this weekend and if I can I will clean it up over the weekend and
    post it on Monday.
    
    It should be in no later than Wednesday.
    
    Mike

    Lori,
    
    I was more efficient this time.
    
    Mike
    
    P.S. I think there's more info in "Granmother" than "Mother"
    

Mike, I'm not all the way through, but I respectfully disagree
with your comments about 95 in Jacksonville.

I find 95 easier, faster, shorter, less traffic, better taste and less filling.
I'm doing it with a 34' motorhome, a car should be even faster.
I hate the traffic backup before the bridge on 295.
ed

Mike; after finishing "Grandmother of All Trip Reports" (and enjoying it
immensely!), I have a couple of questions:

1.  What is it about the All-Star Resorts that people don't care for?
    Other than viewing it from the outside, did you get a chance to check it 
    out?

2.  What is it that "hotel guests" see when they look up inside the TZToT
    ride?  (If you choose not to publicize it, would you either hide it
    behind a FF or send me mail?)  I unfortunately have no plans to visit
    WDW in the near future, and I'll go nuts if I don't find out! ;-)
    Also, while you're at it, I'd love to know what Ghassan does!

I plan to eventually take a second (and closer) look at the trip report to
hopefully pick up a few things that I may have missed, so I may even have a
few more questions later on.

Thanks again! ;-)

    Ed,
    
    I guess it's one of those "your mileage may vary" or "different
    strokes..." kind of a deal with 295. I'll agree with you on one thing,
    that bridge is a pain.
    
    I just can't stand driving through Jacksonville. I think that in the
    future the time of day will determine which route I take.
    
    _____
    
    Meredith,
    
    The complaints regarding the All-Star Resorts were as follows:
    
             - Rooms too small.
             - What no bellhop service?
             - Parking lot too far from rooms.
             - What security?
             - Tacky, tacky, tacky.
    
    Regarding the TZTOT and looking up...think about moving fast away and
    towards something and you'll get the idea.
    
    Ghassan is a funny guy. Not only does he play the Prime Time role
    well, he also tells jokes, does magic tricks, and plays practical
    jokes with the customers. 
    
    Mike

     Mike, just what I needed to read on a rainy day -- thanks.  The 1900
     Park Fare at GF was one dinner we really enjoyed, too!  Should we ever
     go back to WDW we would do this again.  Although this restaurant is
     pretty noisy, the personalized attention from Mickey/Minnie is really
     great.  Plus the food and dessert bars are fantastic.
    
     Glad you liked the Sci-Fi -- we didn't, but like you said it's all in
     the CMs.  The two that had waited on us when we were there were just
     doing a job -- no personalities.
    
     Tony's sounds like a must -- I'll get there next time.
    
     The TZTOT sounds unbelievalble.  You wouldn't catch me on it.  Great
     description!
    
     Sounds like you had great weather (not as hot as up here) and that even
     with the ages of your kids, you still could do a family thing and have
     fun.  Wasn't Holly thinking of staying behind and Mike taking a
     friend?  I bet you're glad you were able to enjoy the ride and WDS as a
     family.
    
     Thanks again for an enjoyable report, just makes me want to go back.
    
     Julie
    

    Great trip report Mike. 
    
    I can't wait to go down next year. I'll certainly use it to plan my
    activities.
    
    Just reading the last 100 or so lines, as you captured your thoughts upon
    having to leave WDW was really poignant. I felt I was watching you say
    goodbye to an old friend.
    
    
    I'll be looking forward to the Great-Grandmother!
    
    Sparky 

    >>>I'll be looking forward to the Great-Grandmother!
    
       Me too.
    
       I might point out to everyone that I left some detail out regarding
       some of the Streetmosphere we watched while in MGM.
    
       I forgot to mention one particular day when three Streetmosphere
       characters named Elmo, Frederick (I call him "Frederick of
       Hollywood"), and Sam did a hilarious routine at the beginning of 
       Sunset Blvd.
    
       One of them was on the rooftop of the Keystone Clothiers during this
       routine.
    
       Mike

From:   US2RMC::"Berube_Claude/Non-HP-Chelmsford_om1@om1.ch.apollo.hp.com" 
To:	Wreath::Scopa
CC:	Goldberg@Synetics.com, Dssdev::Lowell
Subj:	WDW Trip Report comments

Item Subject: Text_1
     
    Mike,
     
     First off, if I missed a ;^) here and there sorry, but no ;^) were 
     intended in the summary.
     
     BTW wasn't your last trip report slightly longer than this one? This 
     one printed out to 40 pages, and I thought the last one was something 
     like 41-42?
     
     Overall pretty good report Mike however sounds like you still need to 
     get a Doctor's appointment to have that Video Camera surgically 
     removed from your face.
     
     OK the following are my comments to your report.
     
     - Tic Tac's, Yup I know the feeling, I tend to feel this way toward 
     the end of any trip, where all I want is a sugar hit to keep me going.
     
     - Delivery Room Deja Vue, yup been there, but I think you being to 
     hard on the Floridian's Mike, I come across !@#$%^&*() CRAZY DRIVERS 
     no matter where I vacation too, It's usually turns out to be 1 of 2 
     types. 1) Those not on Vacation and in a hurry to get to/from work. 2) 
     Tourist who haven't a clue as to what they want to see/do since they 
     are winging it on a prayer (no advance planning). 
     
     Speaking of which I think I heard a Scream or two last night and was 
     called #1 as well, since I had to read most of the report either on my 
     commute to/from HP/Chelmsford (Rt 3 Nashua/Chelmsford boy do I hate 
     this ride) or in hiding last night, since if Elaine had saw what I was 
     reading she would of said "How can you read about someone else's 
     vacation to WDW, I couldn't do that since I rather be there". Well 
     since I can only afford/justify my trip to Jersey next week and Six 
     Flags (sorry Mike but I want to visit a park with "REAL THRILL RIDES" 
     like Batman The Ride, Standup Roller Coaster, a Real 
     Free Fall rides etc. another story/report) after being back to work 
     for 3 months after a forced 1 1/2 year vacation, that I'm not about to 
     change my plans now for my vacation next week. Gee that last 
     (statement) should cause a commotion in die hard Disney ranks.
     
     - WDW Acronyms, Gee Mike it's been 21 months since I had moderated the 
     file, and I actually needed to look up the Guide last night from time 
     to time to figure what the hell you were talking about. (but that 
     another story, later in this mail message)
     
     - Mike seems like there another group about to top you most liked 
     list. But wait a minute with all those birthday's we've read about 
     over the years aren't you about to join them Mike? ;^).
     
     - Ah Mike after how many trips, you finally got around to doing PI at 
     night? Kongaloosh!!!!!!!!!!!!!! to you old buddy (gee did I say old, 
     sorry ;^)).
     
     - 1/3rd from the front, myself I like to be 1/3 from the back, this 
     way I always get a good view of the stage/show/film etc. and also see 
     how the audience reacts to it, especially in Star Tours, Muppet Vision 
     etc.
     
     - Cake as a Quickie Breakfast, Yum-Yum nothing love it, been there 
     too!.
     
     - Hey Mike what is it with you and the Brazilians anyway, haven't you 
     been to any of those Diversity Classes yet? guess I need to do a July 
     trip to find out for myself.
     
     - Complaints etc. Yeah how 'bout a WDW in NE? FL is too damn far.
     
     - Gas, hmmmm I never seem to have any problem in this department when 
     I go on vacation, change of food and all that ;^)). Seriously though 
     there's been times when I wished for a good rotten egg, kielbassa, 
     beer....... you get the idea.
     
     - That Important Paper, Mike as a Scouter I never leave home without 
     it when I go on vacation. If you don't get this, talk to someone you 
     know who into Boy Scouts.
     
     - Beeper, what a neat idea for a restaurant, love it, and water 
     pistols to boot, looks like Whispering Canyon Cafe will be on my list 
     of definite to-do's for '97, sound like a great place.
     
     - Olive Garden, Mike what happen to the OG across from the Burger King 
     on 535 just outside of Lake Buena Vista entrance to WDW? Oh I'm sorry 
     you didn't know about this one did you?.
     
     - Rafiki, He wasn't in the movie that much either, bummer.
     
     - Bottom of the sack, been there, starts off like a dream sequence 
     then reality hit home.
     
     - Grand Prix, Gee Mike I would of though you'd do this so you could 
     get all those reasons for your being #1 in Jersey out of your system? 
     ;^)
     
     - Watch, Mike you traveled how far, spent all that money on a watch 
     you could of bought at TDS at PLM in Nashua at a 10% discount with no 
     FL tax? Sorry Mike I didn't say that, but I could of sworn I saw that 
     very watch there last time I was at PLM. The Watch I bought at MGM in 
     '92 wasn't in any of the local TDS's around when I picked it out I 
     thought it was a unique watch to WDW, only to see it at the Rockingham 
     Mall in Salem just 2 months later, what a bummer.
     
     - SCI-FI theater, sounds like only you and I liked this place. Like I 
     said before, some of the places really depend on the CM's for the 
     audience to enjoy the experience, no kissing in the back seat Mom & 
     Dad!
     
     - Hey you actually mentioned my name in your report, that 5 spot in 
     the mail ;^).
     
     - Natural Highs, try this one on for size, it 2am and you and your 
     significant other can't sleep, you decide to go for a walk, it's a 
     full moon and no clouds, you walk along the waterway and light jazz is 
     playing in the background from hidden speakers........ oh your talking 
     about a differnt high aren't you ;^).
     
     Summary:
     
     Well I hate to say this, but what I'm about to say something that could 
     be considered blasphemous coming from someone who once Moderated the 
     file etc. But reading the trip report didn't make me want to just chuck 
     it all and start driving south nor do I miss the file that much. Maybe 
     because I still subscribe to Disney News and it's enough to satisfy my 
     itch.
     
     Yeah I'm still planning to go again in '97, but going to WDW is not a 
     top priority in my vacation plans right now (Six Flags great Adventure 
     is). I think the file (VAXNotes in general) is habit forming and you 
     need to get away from it from time to time, and like I said I really 
     don't miss it as much as I thought I would. Hmmm maybe some of those 
     VP's at DEC (BTW who left, got appointed THIS WEEK) had a point about 
     employees spending to much time in the conferences, yeah I was one of 
     them, but that was at a time when DEC wasn't fully utilizing me and 
     over the years my noting decreased.
     
     Enough of that damn soapbox (BTW is SOAPBOX still around, what a crazy 
     file that was), glad you and the clan had a great time and you felt it 
     was worthwhile, and thanks for insight in some of the new things and 
     future things at WDW, definitely know I'll be doing more than 2 trips 
     at TWTOT in '97.
     
     thats all for now folks!!!! opss wrong entertainment company.
     
     Claude
     
     PS sounds like a past/present/future Disney Mods party would be a good 
     idea right now, I game for one in September, after I come back from 
     Six Flags next week.

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    re: Grandmother of all trip reports
    
    Mike, Great job, I finally got to read all of it last night.
    
    <<Martinique 2400 bldg>>  We've stayed there on each of our last two
    trips, I agree regarding how oustanding a location it is; quick access
    to parking, pool, ice, laundry, and OPR.
    
    <<Sci-Fi Dine In Theater>>  Hey, what's all this perception of
    "everybody dislikes Sci-Fi", we loved the place!  Twice! Check out my trip
    reports 237.40 and 334.25.  
    
    <<Olive Garden>> This has been a "must eat here" for us on the last few
    trips.  Not because the food is so much better than can be had
    elsewhere, as much as 
    		- Good food, low prices
    		- Excellent service
    		- Particularly indulgent of the kids
    		- Clean, friendly
    
    <<Mercado>>  Yes, this has also been a "must" stop for us, to usually
    include a meal at Jose O'Days, a pint at the Crickateer's Arms, and
    shopping.  Where else can you find an entire store dedicated almost
    entirely to Jimmy Buffet and similar Jimmy Buffet "state of mind" goods.
    
    <<Spanish/Portugues>> !Peligro!  Hay algunas personas aqui que pueden
    hablar en Espanol (como yo), y !el Espanol no es Portugues!  ?Y que es 
    su punto, gringo? Tengo muchos amigos que viven en America del Sur. 
    Basta de hablar...
    
    <<Soccer>>  Yeah, after call, 50 zillion people must be wrong  ;-)
    
    <<TZTOT>>  Your description was great, to me you captured the
    "experience" of TZTOT rather than merely relating observations, I can't
    wait to go on this!
    
    - What?  No Portabello Yacht Club????
    
    - Your closing section was indeed quite touching.
    
    After my wife reads your report, I may be making some reservations...
    
    Thanks!,
    Ken
      

Mike,

My family and I really enjoyed your trip report. 

Doug

PS Just what do you see when you look up in TZTTOT?
    We really liked the Sci-Fi also.

    Doug,
    
    When you are in the elevator and look up you see.....
    
     ........gotcha!
    
    Mike

Mike,
	My husband and I really enjoyed your trip report.  It was almost
like being there ourselves!  Thanks for all the time and effort you went
through!  It was a great start to our weekend (except now I want to buy a
plane ticket :-).  

Joey.

How cruel!

Steve, how dare you talk bad about MY favorite place at WDW, I'm going to
take my Figment doll and beat you over the head.

which is a good reminder that one should aways weigh the reports, and not miss 
anything, least *you* like it.  Which is probably one of the ingredients of WDW,
there's something for everyone.
\ed

    Doug,
    
    Actually what you see over the elevator varies from time to time
    depending upon where you are. Sometimes there's nothing and sometimes
    there are special effects that cause you to forget that you are in an
    elevator.
    
    I guess the best effect is looking up just before you go down. I didn't 
    do that...it's tough enough just to keep yer eyes open.
    
    Mike

    The following message was sent to me over the Internet from one of my
    friends on AOL. My trip report has been posted in the Travel Library
    and when I get messages that I think are worthwhile posting in here
    I will do so.
    
    Kinda scary....there are over 1 million people now subscribing to 
    AOL. If each one of them could send me just 1 dollar.....
    
---------------------

Dear Mike,

Thanks for sending me the "GMATR".  I enjoyed reading the report with all of
your observations.  I imported it to my word processor and it said there was
24310 words!

We were in WDW (our 2nd time only) in July also (we're from California).  We
were there from July 5th to July 16th.  I wish we could have met!  I did get
to meet "So There" at the Apple pavilion too!  We missed the TZTOT...
(originally when we planed the trip, it was to open on July 1st).  I guess we
just have to plan another trip.  I also have to agree about those "tour
groups"...tour flags...  :-(
but in general, we felt the crowds were almost nonexistent.  Try Disneyland
in July...  By the way, next time check out the taping of MMC (for the kids)
at MGM.  My daughter (14yr old) went and had a great time.

I was there on the day that Disney did the grand opening dedication of the
Legend of the Lion King.  Great show!  (I do some photography 'press' work
for a few magazines) - We went into the show with Ernie Sebella and Robert
Giulloume and afterwards, there was a little reception upstairs at the
Harbour House.  A nice combination of work and vacation!  Watch the September
issue of the Disney Magazine.  They're using photos that I shot of the "vine
cutting ceremony" and a few photos of Innoventions.

It's funny that you mention the lax cast members at Small World... did you
here about the little girl that got hurt a few days ago?  The way you talked
about your experience, I thought you witnessed the accident.  It happened
very similar to the event you described... too bad those cast members didn't
take your comments more seriously!  Here's an article that I picked up:

ORLANDO, Fla,  (Reuter 8/19/94) - A 6-year-old girl was critically injured in
an accident at a ride in Walt Disney World, hospital and theme park officials
said Friday.  The girl accidentally fell out of a boat in the loading area at
the "It's A Small World" ride at the theme park Thursday (8/18) evening,
Disney spokeswoman Michelle Fisher said.  Investigators with the Orange
County Sheriff's Department believe the child was subsequently hit by another
boat.  The girl, 6-year-old Barbara Paribanez of Miami, was in critical but
stable condition Friday at Arnold Palmer Hospital for Children and Women in
Orlando. She suffered a broken rib, broken right arm and collapsed lung,
hospital spokeswoman Martha Johnson said.  The ride features slow-moving
boats that float on a track past dolls depicting children from around the
world. Fisher said the attraction was closed Thursday night for a safety
inspection but reopened Friday.

There was a park guest that video taped the event (he was going to 'Hard
Copy' with the tape, he said) but a Disney security guard made him surrender
the tape on the spot.  The 'guest' then punched the security person - the
security guy pressed charges and the guest spent the night in the Orlando
jail...

At least the little girl is OK...

Anyhow, thanks again for the update!  I appreciate the info!  Keep in touch
and I'll see you at the next chat!



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% Subject: Fwd: GMATR

    Mike,
    
    Excellent report, really enjoy your sense of humor. This report did me
    alot of good and alot of harm. We have been going to WDW every year for
    the past seven years, one year we even went twice. We are definetly
    addicted. Well this year we bought a new house so money is a little
    tight and there will be no vacation :-(. So the trip reports are a
    great way to "still be there". But they also make me want to be there.
    The Itis is very strong right now because August is when we have been
    going the last few years.
    
    Anyway, can you help me share your report with my wife? I work with a
    VT1200, is there a way I can import your report and print it? If so,
    please send explicit details, as I am not a computer genius. I can't
    log on from home yet, still un-packing. Your help would be appreciated.
    
    You can send me mail on all-in-one, John Ames @cho if you wish.
    
    Thanks,
    
    John

    Last night I got confirmation on these "Shopper's Reports."
    
    Cast Members are aware that they are always being evaluated and are
    kept on their toes with the knowledge that any guest could very well
    be a "shopper" in disguise.
    
    Shopper Reports are evaluations or performance reviews that are done on
    all cast members. These are done by people posing as guests. Once the
    notes are transferred onto a formal evaluation form the Cast Member's
    Leader (coach/manager) then sits down and goes over the report with the
    Cast Member.
    
    Sometimes the Shopper will give the CM a hard time to see how the
    latter handles him/herself.
    
    Mike

    Gail,
    
    Where is Lumiere's Kitchen? SOunds like it's somewhare in FantasyLand.
    
    Mike

    Yes, Lumiere's Kitchen is in FantasyLand.  It's right across from
    the 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea attraction (of course that won't
    be around for long).  Since we spent a lot of time in FantasyLand, 
    we ate here a lot!  It's one of those places that you order the
    food there but eat it someplace else (no seats there).  The tables
    by 20,000 Leagues is where we sat most of the time (when we didn't
    need someplace that was air conditioned).
    
    Actually, most of our eating was at "fast food" type places since
    we had two children along.  Jennifer (our almost 7 year old) would 
    have been able to eat other places, but Kenneth (our 2 year old)
    didn't have the patience (he was too excited about where he was!).
    I would have liked to have tried some of the "better" restaurants.

    Re: Gail's trip report.
    
    <<<Murder She Wrote at Universal>>>  We also thought that this was well
    done, and I agree that the cast is what makes it so good.  Sometimes it
    may be a so-so cast, but when we last saw the show most of the cast
    were recognizable actors from the Nickelodeon shows, and they were
    hilarious!
    
    <<<Carousel of Progress stuck on one scene>>>  We had this happen while
    we were there too, maybe the Carousel needs a little more care than 
    merely a scene update and a new (old) song.
    
    Cheers,
    Ken
    

    re: Gail's trip report
    
    1.  Your report provides a great description of the typical
        toddler vs. WDW.  I think anyone planning to bring small
        children to WDW should read this note first.
    
    2.  The Carousel of Progress should be called the Carousel of
        Technical Difficulties.  I'm not sure if the problems are
        due to technical failures or if they're caused by visitors
        opening the doors at the wrong times.
    
        My two favorite stories about getting stuck are:
    
        - I got stuck in between two scenes.  Imagine listening to
          and watching two of the scenes at the same time.  It was
          quite funny.
    
        - I got stuck in the same scene for 3 or 4 times.  The
          audience was a little confused after the first rerun but
          by the time we got to the final run we were reciting the
          dialog along with the show.  I still laugh when I think
          about it.
    
    Ruth

    I was reading my trip report the other day and I noticed that I said
    we went to France for Chocolate Mouse.  I'm sure you all knew that I
    meant to say Chocolate Mousse, I guess my fingers were thinking about
    Mickey!

    
    re: -1
    
    
    oh man I'm bummin now...I already put chocolate mouse on my list
    of 'must dos' for May.  Who the hell wants to eat a chocolate
    Moose at WDW anyway?  ;^)
    
    --bert

    I'm disappointed, too.  Chocolate mouse made sense;  after all, the
    butter is shaped like Mickey, so why not the candy?
    
    tom

    RE: Seal on the bar in the room.
    
        I don't recall if there was a charge for breaking that seal...but
        that is something everyone should check out before using the 
        frig as a storage for stuff.
    
    RE: Universal Studios technical difficulties.
    
        You would think that by now those problems would be greatly
        reduced.
    
    RE: Dole whip in the lines.
    
        Annie...good thinking.
    
    RE: "Honey.." and Spaceship Earth.
    
        They are now open...some people may not like these attractions.
        I guess "Honey..." is very, shall we say, MEMORABLE?? Spaceship
        Earth has some new parts and a new ending.
    
    RE: Swordfish.
    
        Hope it was Cajun style.
    
    RE: Restaurant name.
    
        The Whispering Canyon Cafe. I had gone Vegetarian for six months
        last year so I had a little difficulty with all the meat.
    
    RE: AP Renewals.
    
        Annie we're probably in the same boat. I don't plan to return until
        1997 but I plan to renew my AP's next Summer and hold on to the
        vouchers for 2 years. Of course I will verify this with the AP
        folks before takeing these steps.

    Re: Bus Transportation.
    
        I think that the bus schedules change dramatically over the course
        of the year and I keep hearing complaints about them during the 
        non-peak times. I took my car EVERYWHERE except of course when we
        were in Fort Wilderness.
    
    Re: Wilderness Lodge.
    
        I am still amazed that I actually stayed in that resort because I
        don't like big hotels. But there's something about that place...
    
    Re: Epcot Times.
    
        The change in the openings for Future World and World Showcase is
        a move to save overhead costs. Unfortunately it ruins the plan of
        hitting World showcase early while the crowds do Future World. I
        may initiate a write-in campaign to change these times back to
        where they were.
    
    Re: Moving luggage.
    
        Sorry to hear that Linda but glad you reported it. 
    
    Re: TZTOT
    
        I had the same experience. The second time was different than the 
        first time. Too much adrenalin first time around to see everything.
        C'mon Linda...you couldn't get Peter to try?
    
    Re: Mama Melrose
    
        Just remember, NEVER order non-Italian dishes in that restaurant.
    
    Re: Disney Movie theaters
    
        Linda, would you see another movie down there? That is, were the
        prices okay?
    
    Re: Whispering Canyon Cafe
    
        Sounds like this restaurant is getting good reviews. Better get
        there early for BG, L, or Din Din.
    
    Re: WDW Merchandise.
    
        I don't know if stuff from Sid's can be ordered over the phone but
        I just caught wind of a catalogue you can receive that may have
        some of the WDW merchandise you meant to get but never got around to.
    
        Call 1-800-272-6201 to arrange to receive this WDW Merchandise
        Catalogue.
    
        I haven't called yet.
    
    Re: Linda's Report
    
        I know that she did a good job because I have the -ITIS now.

    re: .355
    
    Mike, 
    
    Wilderness Lodge is a big hotel but it is still smaller than CBR! It
    only has 700+ rooms versus over 1000.
    
    Peter wouldn't go NEAR TZTOT! He still hasn't forgiven me for getting
    him onto Splash Mountain! He did ride Star Tours, though. 
    
    Movie prices were about the same that we pay around here for a
    first-run movie -- I think they were $7.50 or so. If you went late
    afternoon or early evening it was half price. 
    
    Linda
    
    

    Gibson Family Trip Report - Your comments on Beach Club
    
    Wasn't like that all for us last year.  We parked our own car (lots of
    people were).  Only used the valet when we arrived and left for the
    airport.  We brought snacks down with us, and I had kept milk/
    cokes in the ice bucket.  I did see (very few) come in with grocery
    type bags.  We were there April vacation and people were dressed from
    really casual to very formal.  We even went from the pool through the
    main lobby in wet bathing suits and in bare feet.
    
    This April we staying at the Yahct Club, just for a different decor.
    It did appear "stuffy", but me as well as my family want to be near
    that sand-bottom pool!
    

    re: .357
    
    Maybe it felt stuffy because there were several business meetings 
    going on in the hotel at the time. We tripped over a group of
    suited individuals gathered around a coffee table in the lobby
    having a morning meeting. Peter wasn't happy, which meant I wasn't
    happy. 
    
    I did like the physical building. The room was nice, but I think the
    difference in price between Port Orleans and the Beach Club can only
    be justified by the elevated level of service. The room itself is not
    worth almost double the price!
    
    Glad it isn't like that all of the time. 
    
    Linda

    Makes you wonder why some people stay at the Swan or Dolphin or any
    place where you'd find a contingent of business folks.
    
    Hey when I go on vacation I stay away from anything that would remind
    me of business or work.
    
    Mike

    Christine, 
    
    Glad to see that the baggage transfer process works at least some of
    the time. I believe our problem was on the Beach Club end. The bellman
    really didn't want to transfer the luggage. The people at Wilderness 
    Lodge saved the day for us, finally. 
    
    Linda

< Note 393.27  by NODEX::MMCKENNA

< - service seemed to be lacking.(every time we went to a counter service
<   area it was at LEAST a 30 minute wait. (don't know if this is the norm
<   because we've always been on the gold key package and never used counter
<   service much. But I thought this to be excessive.)

What is "counter service?"

      Carol

> What is "counter service?"

"Counter service" is the type of place where you stand in line to buy your
food and then find a place to sit as opposed to being seated at a table and
served by someone.

    For what it's worth I had a conversation with Jim Pappas a few years
    back and we discussed the cost of a WDW trip and how to get the best
    value.
    
    One of our discussions led to the value of time vs money. We agreed
    that it's difficult to assign value to time (it's priceless to me) and
    we arrived at the conclusion that standing lin line several times a 
    day for fast food wastes time and money.
    
    It's best to have one nice sit-down meal and relax and plan out your 
    day. You'll find that electing to go to a sit-down restaurant instead
    of counter space works out better for everyone...IMHO.
    
    Mike

    I agree with Mike.  We always schedule our lunches or suppers in the
    Castle.  We find it cheaper, faster, and food better than at a fast
    food place.  We were tricked by not getting lunch at the diamond
    horseshoe review.  They should serve it there again instead of
    cancelling the place.
    ed
    

    what is gold key service??/
    
    kathi

re: 451.1

Hi Bill.  Thanks for the trip report -- it was great!  I have a couple of 
questions though...

It looks like you got to use your Food 'n Fun card for two meals each day
of your package.  I heard that it only included dinner the first day,
breakfast the last day, and both on the in-between days.  So for a 6 day
package you'd get 5 breakfasts and 5 dinners.  I've asked about this a 
couple of times when I've called MKC Travel Center and been told that this
is true.  But it looks like you got six of each.  Did you hear anything about
this at all?  Also, do you know how long the any-two-meals rather the 
breakfast/dinner only will last for?

About the Classic package, I've also done some figuring about whether the 
package is worth it or not.  Like you, I usually have it come out pretty
close to the cost of getting the room and admissions separately.  Since
they're close, I figure go with the package.  It's a little cheaper, it
gets you use of the non-motorized recreational stuff (in case you're not
using the Food 'n Fun option which includes *all* recreational stuff), and
at all but CBR, PO, and DL it also gets you a Birnbaum Guide and a 'Mickey
and You' portrait session.  Not bad.

						Tracy

>It looks like you got to use your Food 'n Fun card for two meals each day
>of your package.  I heard that it only included dinner the first day,
>breakfast the last day, and both on the in-between days.  So for a 6 day
>package you'd get 5 breakfasts and 5 dinners.  I've asked about this a 
>couple of times when I've called MKC Travel Center and been told that this
>is true.  But it looks like you got six of each.  Did you hear anything about
>this at all?  Also, do you know how long the any-two-meals rather the 
>breakfast/dinner only will last for?

I got that line on one of my calls, and ignored it...none of the other
inquiries I made before purchasing it mentioned those restrictions. I
think it might have been another experiment that they backed off of. I
went ahead and used it, and it didn't get kicked out (and the computer
DOES figure out if it's been over used, I saw someone else subjected
to that problem.) The 1995 MKC Brochure says the Food 'n Fun includes
"Breakfast and Dinner each day" so that is the line right now.  I don't
know how long the any two meals option will continue...I should write a letter
to thank them and encourage it, though.  ALSO: the guide says "A minimum of
two days can be booked with any length Plan."  I like that new flexibility.

>About the Classic package, I've also done some figuring about whether the 
>package is worth it or not.  Like you, I usually have it come out pretty
>close to the cost of getting the room and admissions separately.  Since
>they're close, I figure go with the package.  It's a little cheaper, it
>gets you use of the non-motorized recreational stuff (in case you're not
>using the Food 'n Fun option which includes *all* recreational stuff), and
>at all but CBR, PO, and DL it also gets you a Birnbaum Guide and a 'Mickey
>and You' portrait session.  Not bad.

I like the little extras, too.  It's all part of the magic to us.  I never
really asked what the room-only rates were; I now have access to some good
information because my wife is a part-time travel agent now.

re: 412.29  Bill Abrams trip sign-in.

//Start crossing my fingers for Alien Encounter.  I'm not optimistic; there's
//no date to re-open officially.

Hmmmm...  The cast member I talked to this weekend said June 10th was the
projected date for opening Alien Encounter.  I think that date's been mentioned
in here before too.  I was even hoping that I might get a sneak preview by the
middle of May!
						Tracy

    Re: 451.3
    
    Gary, you mentioned seeing Barney at Universal can you give a few more
    details about this?  I had heard that Barney was coming to Universal in
    July, but it sounds like he is there now.  Is there a show or just the
    Barney character walking around?  My son likes Barney (he's almost 3)
    and we are going to Orlando the end of June and we were thinking of
    going to Universal (we haven't decided yet since there is not a lot of
    things for my son to do and we have Annual Passports for Disney so it
    doesn't cost anything to go there).
    
    I hadn't heard of a character dinner at the Liberty Tree Tavern before,
    is this new?  Do you remember what the prices for adults and children
    are?  Also, what time is the show?  
    
    Did you happen to go on the new Snow White ride?  I was wondering what
    this is like, the old one wasn't very good.
    
    Thanks,
    Gail

    
    Gail,
    
    There is a Barney show at Universal in a big ampitheatre that they
    have.  It is in the same location as the animal show.
    
    I believe, however, that Barney is only there through April.  You will
    have to call Universal to verify this.
    
    Yes, the character dinner is something fairly new that they are doing. 
    I think the price was something like $19.00/adult and $9.00/child.  I
    don't know if there was an age limit on this (i.e. under 2 eats free).
    
    We did not go on Snow White.  I have have not heard anything about it.
    
    Hope you have a great time!
    
    - Gary

    RE:.-1
    
    To confirm Barney was advertised only to be there until May 1.
    
    -Jay
    

Thanks, Jay.  I phoned an 800 number for them, but they haven't gotten back
to me.  :-(

    Carol

    Okay where are those trip reports? The Trip Report police are about
    to serve warrants for delinquent trip reports.
    
    Mike

<    Okay where are those trip reports? The Trip Report police are about
<    to serve warrants for delinquent trip reports.
    
Hey!  I'm 99% finished with mine!  I'm just reading up now to see if there's
anything I forgot which I'll want to quickly include!!

     Carol  :-p  ;-)

    Angie made two very good points in her trip report:
    
       - The first point is in regards to driving down and the fatigue that
         sets in when you get there. She mentions that she feels that
         flying down would have been better (to escape the fatigue).
    
         I agree with her on short (7 day) trips. If you are planning on
         spending 2 weeks down there then fatigue is not much of a factor
         because you can relax on your first day and not rush around to 
         do everything due to a tight schedule.
    
         But if you're going for a week...fly.
    
       - Her other point centered on the best age to take children. Many of
         us have discussued this elsewhere in the conference and it's nice
         to hear from someone who has just returned from a trip with a
         fresh memory of her experience with children.
    
         Some people can vacation with a baby or toddler; some can't. You
         really need to think about what age is the EARLIEST your child can
         be at before you take him/her to Orlando. Remember, it's supposed
         to be EVERYONE's vacation.
    
    Mike  

    
QUESTION RE:
    
>>>>> I do agree that toward England is where you want to be for IllumiNations.
Many other places have their view obscured by islands.  It was a delight 
being in the Rose and Crown in England for IllumiNations.  


Has the country name in EPCOT changed from United Kingdom to England????
                              
                                   Stevie.

< Has the country name in EPCOT changed from United Kingdom to England????
                              
I don't know, Stevie.  I don't recall looking on the map.  However, I thought
that was what the English cast member called it when it was first pointed out
to us. 

If I've offended, I apologize.

      Carol

Ever met anyone who said they were from United Kingdom?  All I've ever heard is
England, Ireland, Scotland, ...

Not trying to start a rat hole 'cause its just a name.

I'm from the UK.

The UK is the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.
Great Britain is made up of England, Scotland and Wales.

The land in World Showcase if the United Kingdom Although I can't remember 
anything there being specificaly to do with Wales or Ulster there is stuff
that represents Scotland and England. So calling it England is like calling
North America the US.

If you need a book to read over the holiday weekend, my trip report is
almost ready and should be posted by tomorrow morning.  I hope you
can print double-sided... ;-)
Bill A.

    
    you're rightr Jay.  but looking at the lines for the bus just outside
    of MK after the fireworks, I think it would have taken an hour either
    way....I never went without my car after that night!
    
    

I'd like to clone Kenneth, the child who goes to sleep so easily!  ;-)

    Carol

    For those of you who have access to a Web Browser check out this Web
    site:
    
            http://www.neosoft.com/sbanks/vacation/vacation.html

It's been a while since we've looked at the numbers:

Topic #   Date         Title                      # trips/reports

 158    23-Jan-1990    Sign-in 1990 WDW Visitors        85     
 183    10-Apr-1990    1990 Trip Reports                41 (48%)

 221     5-Sep-1990    Sign-in 1991 WDW Visitors        80 
 237     3-Jan-1991    1991 Trip Reports                40 (50%)

 243     3-Feb-1991    Sign-in 1992 WDW Visitors        72             
 290     3-Jan-1992    1992 Trip Reports                33 (46%)

 312    25-Jun-1992    Sign-in 1993 WDW Visitors        71
 334    18-Jan-1993    1993 Trip Reports                32 (42%)

 336    17-Feb-1993    Sign-in 1994 WDW Visitors        48
 393     6-Jan-1994    1994 WDW Trip Reports            24 (50%)

 412    24-Mar-1994    Sign-in 1995 WDW Visitors        36
 451     1-MAR-1995    1995 WDW Trip Reports            10 (28%)

Boy have the numbers gone down. we're missing about a dozen trip
reports for 1995.

 471    13-JUL-1995    Sign In 1996 WDW Visitors         3
 nnn    nn-mmm-yyyy    1996 WDW Trip Reports             n (nn%)

 475    18-AUG-1995    Sign In 1997 WDW Visitors         3
 nnn    nn-mmm-yyyy    1997 WDW Trip Reports             n (nn%)

Mike   

A nit on this bit from 451.11:

> Highlights - A couple of the new rides were really exciting.  Alien Encouter
> at Epcot

Alien Encounter is at the Magic Kingdom (specifically, in Tomorrowland), NOT
at EPCOT.

-- Nina

    Comments for Meg Moreau...
    
    >Mermaid, and Pocahantas (by then my niece was referring to her as
    >"Pukeahontas" - kids!)
    
    Well, I call it Crapahontas or Pocacrapas so it's not just kids!
    It really ticks Nicole (age 7) off too.  She says I should see the
    movie because then I wouldn't make fun of it.
    
    > When we finally got back to the original ride destination for the
    > canyon, I was disappointed cuz the truck didn't explode/catch-on-fire.
    > I found out reading an article later that they have stopped doing that?
    > Not sure...
    
    I know they don't do the fire/explosions in the Indiana Jones show
    when it's raining because the fuel floats on water so they can't
    control the stunt.  Perhaps they stop the canyon for that reason too.
    We saw the explosions in August but it wasn't raining at the time.
    
    Ruth

>> When we finally got back to the original ride destination for the
>> canyon, I was disappointed cuz the truck didn't explode/catch-on-fire.
>> I found out reading an article later that they have stopped doing that?
>> Not sure...
>   
>    I know they don't do the fire/explosions in the Indiana Jones show
>    when it's raining because the fuel floats on water so they can't
>    control the stunt.  Perhaps they stop the canyon for that reason too.
>    We saw the explosions in August but it wasn't raining at the time.

We saw the explosions/fire on Oct. 8, which wasn't too long before Meg's
visit.  It rained later that day but wasn't raining when we went on the
tram tour.  FWIW.

-- Nina (I know, I'm remiss in entering my trip report!  Working.... :-) )

For those interested here are the latest numbers:

Topic #   Date         Title                      # trips/reports

 158    23-Jan-1990    Sign-in 1990 WDW Visitors        85     
 183    10-Apr-1990    1990 Trip Reports                41 (48%)

 221     5-Sep-1990    Sign-in 1991 WDW Visitors        80 
 237     3-Jan-1991    1991 Trip Reports                40 (50%)

 243     3-Feb-1991    Sign-in 1992 WDW Visitors        72             
 290     3-Jan-1992    1992 Trip Reports                33 (46%)

 312    25-Jun-1992    Sign-in 1993 WDW Visitors        71
 334    18-Jan-1993    1993 Trip Reports                32 (42%)

 336    17-Feb-1993    Sign-in 1994 WDW Visitors        48
 393     6-Jan-1994    1994 WDW Trip Reports            24 (50%)

 412    24-Mar-1994    Sign-in 1995 WDW Visitors        43
 451     1-MAR-1995    1995 WDW Trip Reports            13 (30%)

 471    13-JUL-1995    Sign In 1996 WDW Visitors        18
 491    15-JAN-1996    1996 WDW Trip Reports             n (nn%)

 475    18-AUG-1995    Sign In 1997 WDW Visitors         5
 nnn    nn-mmm-yyyy    1997 WDW Trip Reports             n (nn%)

It's sad to see that since 1990 the number of noter trips have
gone down each year to an all-time low of 43 in 1995. We also saw
but THIRTEEN trip reports last year. I hope both numbers go up!

To encourage more trip reports I would like to establish a "Trip
Report of the Year" contest starting this year. Criteria for
voting will be described in the note I create announcing the
contest. Voting will take place in January '97 for the '96 trip
reports.

Mike

    Ed,
    
    Can you comment on the train ride? Was it better than driving down?
    Would you do it again? Was the cost worth it? Were there any drawbacks
    to taking the train? How long did it take you to get to Orlando from 
    the time you stepped on the train in Boston? Also, where is the train 
    station in Orlando?
    
    Also, did you see any literature promoting the 25th Anniversary?
    
    I thought your idea about looking for a discount on an extension of
    your stay is a great idea. My next time I plan to do that.
    
    You mentioned they were working on World of Motion. My sources tell me
    that the NEW World of Motion will have some "thrills" in it.
    
    Good report.
    
    Mike

    
    The train was better than driving.  The cost for four RT was $500.
    The extra cost for first class sleeper was $200.  I would not do the 
    sleeper again.  It was a bad idea.
    We left at 7:30AM from south station and got in [I think] about 4:30 PM
    the next day.  the 4-5 hours on train between boston and NYC were a
    little rougher without baggage check and since the train is a little
    smaller.  The train between NYC and orlando is a good.  It has on board
    TVs with movies [when working].  The train station in Orlando is
    roughly two-four blocks from church street station [I guess].  I
    couldn't find on a map, but we went by Church st area very shortly
    before arriving at the distination station.  
    
    The kids loved the trip.  There was plenty of things to keep them
    occupied.  They were able to move about the train at will.  The
    ablitlity to move about the train is a plus vs driving.
    
    We paid extra for the sleeper on the way back.  A mistake.  There is no
    way four people could fit in the room, much less sleep or exist in the
    room for any length of time.  $200 extra to be in possible mesery.
    First class passengers are not allowed in coach.  Until I had a long
    talk with the conductor.
    
    Of course on the trip back, we hit a porter in the coach car that did
    not want us there.  We were 'first class passengers' and we were in HIS
    car.  A long talk with the head 'guest relations' person sit this
    porter straight.  I could at least sit in his seats.  Although I got a
    very cold look from him each time he passed though the car.  And no
    pillow.
    
    Food cost was very reasonable.  Breakfast was about $5.00 each inc
    fresh squezzed OJ, has browns, toast, two eggs, saucage, coffe.
    Lunch was about $5 for soda, 1/3 pound cheeseburger, chips, desert.
    supper was about $9 for half chicken, drink, baked potato, veggie,
    rolls, salid [very fresh veggies], ice cream on hot apple pie.
    all served on china with metal silverware, cloth napkins.
    other varity of food available.  A lot better than some restraunts we
    ate at.
    
    
    The seats resemble the first class seats in an airplane. Wide,
    comfortable. there are foot rests, and a support that comes up under
    your legs [if wanted].  We bought little inflatable pillows that go
    around your neck [available at wal marts].  This makes your neck
    comfortable in any position.
    
    there are tray tables that come down like in an airplane.
    
    Not being able to check luggage from start to finish was a drawback,
    although minor.  We could have got along with half the amount we took. 
    But I don't consider us experienced in this sort of travel.
    
    
    
    
    btw, there is no smoking in coach cars, only allowed in the lounge car.
    the lounge car has tables that you can play games at, snack at, or chat
    with other people.
    
    
    
    do it again, yes.  but coach class only.
    
    
    the only warning I'd give to other people is that if you don't like
    interacting with other people, you may be uncomfortable.  You eat drink
    and sleep with these people.  You get to see eachother in varous sleep
    positions [and they see you].
    
    ed
    

    I saw nothing on the 25th annniversery.
    Nothing on what the world of motion would be, except the construction
    looked like it could double the area of the current attraction.
    Perhaps I'm bad, but I liked the old world of motion.  I hope they
    don't ruin it like they have others [like Land] that were updated.
    
    and inoventions were inoboring.  what a waste of space.
    ed
    

Ed,

When we took the train a few years ago they told us that
we could check our luggage all the way through to 
Orlando, if we brought it to the station
the day before we left. Of course, they told us that after the trip
was over!

Doug

    they didn't tell us that in advance, but when I went to check it, they\
    indicated it would arrive a day after us.  To me, that doesn't make it.
    ed
    

    Mark,
    
    Re: Place to watch "Fantasy In the Sky"...I've heard that right near
    the Crystal Palace (BTW....was TCP closed?) is a great spot.
    
    Re: Friendly CM's...yeah...guess the competition down there is healthy
    ...could also be that you were down when it wasn't as crowded so they
    weren't tired of zillions of guests.
    
    Re: Alien Encounter.....the hype ruined it.
    
    Re: Supergreeters and attraction boards...I agree...they started this 
        practice a few years back and it works. They communicate with
        walkie-talkies so you know the times are accurate.
    
    Re: Characters. This is a very conscious move by WDW management to make
        characters more accessible. OVer the next several months the WDW
        resort will be making changes that will insure that visitors see
        more characters...especially in restaurants where climate control
        is more than welcomed by the costumed cast members.
    
    Re: 20 oz. beers. Well heck...ya gotta play 2 1/2 hours of softball
    first before sitting down for a cold one.
    
    Nice job.
    
    By the way.....I'm not too keen on the Speedway.
    
    Mike

    Just a matter of time before we start seeing avi and wav files as part
    of the reports.
    
    Mike

    Sorry, the address provided had the $ switched in the disk address.
    I reposted with the correct address.
    
    Mike, did you want to hear the .wav file of me coming down splash 
    mountain.  I don't think so.
    
    perhaps I can get the .avi of that orange t-shirt group and post it?
    they were taking movies
    ed
    

    Julie,
    
    Nice job.
    
    $7/hour to drive a monorail huh?
    
    After feeling some cool weather in February would you go back down 
    again in February?
    
    Mike

    Mike,
    
    I would go back in February, only to avoid the lines.  I've been in
    Florida in April and suffered a week of monsoon-like rains, so you
    never know.  If we had been at WDW for longer than 3 days, we could
    have planned our time around the weather, and made sure that we weren't
    planning on a pool day for the 42 degree day, and hit a park instead.
    
    Julie

    Great job Bill.
    
    Looks like the next time I go down there I'll be traveling on several
    new roads.
    
    The CMs obviously have strong opinions about "my people" but try to
    be politically correct at all times.
    
    I thought that the marketing/advertising strategy was somewhat lacking.
    Looks like they want the biggest bang for the buck and are better off
    waiting until later this year to hype the celebration.
    
    I still don't think I'd ever take that tour....I want the magic to
    remain...don't want to see painted wooded parade floats or a tall thing
    CM carrying Goofy's head.
    
    Keep yer fingers crossed and maybe we'll meet for a dole whip next
    July.
    
    Mike

    "drove past the waste reclamation center (this is your cue to
    say "No sh__!")  which is three huge sheds covering curing
    piles of dung.  Oh, and about a million birds."
    
    Bill, thanks - I was wondering how they got rid of all those birds,
    especially the seagulls @ TMK!
    
    70 minute wait for Planet Hollywood - im my opinion no restaurant is
    worth that wait.  I'm psyched since being an Annual Pass Holder
    received 2 coupons in the mail that let's us walk right up to the
    hostess and are guaranteed the next available table.  We liked Planet
    Hollywood I know there's others in this conference that thought it was
    expensive, but I put in the same category (food and price wise) as
    TGIFs.

    Chris,
    
    How much did that meal at V&A's cost you? 
    
    Also, how long did it take the bust to get you from Pioneer Hall to
    the Wilderness Lodge? The trail behind the petting zoo gets you to the 
    Lodge in 10-15 minutes...not sure if it's lit at night.
    
    Mike

    V+A without the Chef's table was $80 + $25 for wine each.
    
    V+A with the Chef's table is $125 per person (wine included)
    
    Bus travel was really easy from the Lodge.  It was a 5 minute drive
    (if that) along the service road to the Fort Wilderness Bus Stop near
    Pioneer Hall.   We rode the trail on our bikes a few days later.  They
    run just about parallel.  No lights at all on the trail, I checked one
    night.

    Ed,
    
    Amtrak's gonna be real customer friendly after last week's crash.
    
    Mike

    after reading the Obrien's trip report, I must confess one item, and a
    low point in our trip was not reported.  I've been too emBEARished
    to admit to falling prey to them.  But, if it can save a future noter
    problems, I'll spill the beans.  That was the visit to Hertz's
    rental desk.  We were high pressured into taking their insurance.  an
    extra $16/day.  Picture the discussion.  we're fresh in from a 1.5 day
    rail trip, 1/2 hour bus trip from the train station, we want to go to
    the hotel for a shower.  Wife and two kids standing next to me.  The
    sales clerk starts this thing about insurance.  He is predicting death,
    banruptcy, loss ov vacaction, rainy days, everything, for a long long
    time until I give up and say ok to this additional charge.
    I would either avoid Hertz, or go alone into the desk next trip.
    
    Yes, I did write headquarters about this office, but I haven't heard
    anything back.  They are VERY high pressure.
    
    
    btw, Amtrack since sent another check for $250.  We've gotten a total
    of $575 back from the $700 it cost for the train.  All I asked them 
    was for consideration of the extra $200 I paid for sleeping quarters.
    I'd like to see anyone else do roundtrip for 4 people for $125 inc
    meals!  YES, we are taking the train next Feb's trip.

    
    repl: .407
    
    >high pressure
    
    They all are Ed.  I ususally cut them off before they even get started
    with "no insurance, no gas, just the car please".  I've encounterd
    the pressure insurance sales at AVIS, BUDGET, and VALUE.   I buckled
    a couple of times too, but some of them guys can really doom and gloom
    you!
    
    I guess what I'm saying is I wouldn't avoid Hertz just because of this 
    sales pitch.  YOu have to put with it at all of them.  Take the best 
    price and run.  It also sorta depends on who you get behind the counter
    how hard they try...
    
                        

    
re: .408
>>    price and run.  It also sorta depends on who you get behind the counter
>>    how hard they try...
    
  	
    Don't go with Avis then.  Their motto is "We try harder".  :^) 

    re: -1
    
      As I said in my rental car note, Avis was no problem, no hassle,
    etc. They are at the airport, 10 minute wait and you're off.
    They _did_ ask once if I want any of the extra insurance. I said,
    "no". They said initial here and here. Took maybe 15 seconds.
    The luxury car we got was a Cadillac, and it ahd the biggest
    trunk I ever saw.  Cost for the week -- not much more than the
    full-size would be ($204).  Less the 5% cash rebate I'm awaitng
    from my Travel Club.  This was the week of March 9-16.
    
    fyi,
    dick

    An update to my Hertz entry.  
    Today I received FULL refund for my extra insurance.  About $300 for
    my three weeks.
    All I did was write them a nice letter explaining how I already had 
    insurance, that I wasn't planning on buying any, but felt extreme
    pressure to buy.
    
    So far, between Amtrak and Hertz, I've gotten well over $800 refunded on
    our vacation, simply by pointing out faults in a nice manner.
    Disney is a good trend setter.  Too bad, I can't think of a single dime
    I'd ask back from Mickey.
    ed
    Ya, I'll go with Hertz next Feb, and Amtrak on the way down.  Bought
    thetickets already.

    Sounds like a profitable trip Ed.
    
    Mike

    I didn't forget my report, I've just been busy getting caught up.
    
    Sorry for the delay, it should be out by Wednesday or Thursday.
    
    Thanks,
    
    Mark
    

    re: Anderson Family Trip report
    
    Ya'll bailed out too fast on the BB 'family' raft ride.  The signs
    do say minimum 3 persons to a raft, but there are always couples in
    line and they will pair you up at the top.  

    What kind of accomodations did you have at Westgate Villas?  How
    far is the drive to the TTC in minutes?  I'm considering something like this
    for a large family reunion type of trip we are planning for 1998.....not
    all the folks are convinced of staying on property (or even that
    interested in WDW) and we want to keep everyone togethor.
    
    -Bert
         

    Jacqui,
    
    Nice report. Chef Mickey's seems to be getting a lot of PR lately.
    
    is there anything you would have done differently?
    
    Mike

    re: .413
    
    re:  BB - I wish I had known!  My husband really missed out...
    
    re:  Westgate:  I highly recommend this place.  They "advertise"
    as being 5 mins. from EPCOT - which they probably are - just not
    counting the 4-hour drive on the exit (or whatever it is that
    takes you to the parking lot).
    
    I'd say from door to parking lot, the longest drive we had was
    15 minutes - not bad at all.
    
    We had a two-bedroom that slept eight.  King bed in MBR, Queen
    pull-out leather couch in the LR, two full-sized beds in the 2nd
    BR.  Full kitchen including FULL size washer & dryer in the KITCHEN.
    Best part for me!  I came home and unpacked clean clothes - put them
    right away.  No three months of washing after vacation!  There are
    10 pools, a 4-person jacuzzi in the MBR, a great screened in porch
    with table and chairs to eat meals at.  DR, LR, 2 full bathrooms, 
    etc., etc., etc.,  Great place.
    

    re:  .415
    
    Chef Mickey's should get PR.  It was great!
    
    Mike, need more specifics....done differently with what? 
    Accomodations? Length of stay?  Transportation? etc., 
    

    re. 227.416 and Westgate.  Sounds like you were very lucky.  We were
    supposed to stay at Westgate last October and when we arrived we found
    our room was a real dump, located next to a trailer (from a
    tractor/trailer truck) with a weak lock on the sliding door.  It was
    extremely small (but 2 floors).  The bathroom looked like it was out of
    the 1950s.  The only pool we saw was quite a  walk from our room.
    Glad to hear your room was much nicer!
    
    We checked out immediately and stayed at Homewood Suites.
    

    Wow, I'm shocked.  That was our second stay there and both were
    exceptional.  My co-worker and neighbors both also stayed there
    and had the same wonderful experience.
    
    What a shame for you...out of curiousity - were you exchanging a
    timeshare or renting straight out?  I'd be interested to see if
    folks who didn't own a timeshare were treated differently, although
    I'd think they'd almost be treated BETTER to try to make the "sell".
    

    Jacqui,
    
    In general I'm always looking for comments from people coming back...if
    there's anything you would do differently the noters may find it
    helpful in their planning.
    
    Mike

    Offhand, Mike, I can't think of anything specific that I would
    do differently.  I would, however, strongly recommend reading
    the "Unofficial Guide to Disney World" from cover to cover.  
    It had a lot of valuable tips that really helped us especially 
    in time management.
    
    Our trip (barring my son's sickness) really went without a 
    hitch.  Everything went as smoothly as possible.  Of course,
    we planned the trip for 2 years - we read everything we could
    get our hands on (this notesfile included!).  I think planning
    is the key.  You just can't go to DW, and see a good chunk of
    it, without good planning.
    
    Jacqui
    

    Regarding the Unofficial Guide to Walt Disney...that book is
    approaching, or may even have surpassed The Bible in page count.
    
    It will take a bit more time in '96 to go through TUGTWDW than in the
    past.
    
    Mike

    Mark,
    
    I started salivating when you mentioned Dole Whip in your trip report.
    
    I hope they get those AP knuckle readers straightened out by the time I 
    go down next year...dunno why they changed the AP system.
    
    The new EPCOT times really throws off my normal mode for visiting
    EPCOT.
    
    Lost luggage....yet another reason why I don't like flying to WDW.
    
    That was a great idea to eat at Planet Hollywood before checking in. We
    usually stop in at Beaches and Cream...but not on the next
    trip...thanks for the tip.
    
    Mark...methinks you should have used your rental car more often when
    going to the parks.
    
    Too bad about SpectroMagic....I hate limited attraction periods...you
    didn't mention "Sorcery in the Sky"....guess that wasn't running
    either.
    
    Horizons...so many people love it...time to start a write in campaign
    to keep Horizons.
    
    I'm kinda lukewarm regarding that Ace Ventura show.
    
    I'm in complete agreement regarding Sea World...not for every trip.
    
    I remember watching Oprah in WDW about a week or so back.
    
    That's eerie about your wife's gall bladder. My wife had the same
    discomfort when we were there in '94. She had her gall bladder removed
    this past March.
    
    Now for some questions:
    
      Were there any indications or promotions on the 25th anniversary?
    
      Was construction going on in Mickey's Starland? That may be why
      Mickey was in "The Walt Disney Story" building.
    
      You didn't mention the Tiki Room....new show within a year or so.
    
      did you guys go to the Timekeeper or did I miss that?
    
      Next time you want a good salad don't go to the Haus next to "Small
      World" go to the Plaza Restaurant. (That's not a question is it?)
    
      Did you check out the Crystal Palace?
    
      How's the new GM ride (Future WOrld) looking?
    
      Does Sunset Blvd still have the Sunset Ranch Marketplace? I thought
      something new would be there by 9-1-96.
    
      How's Boardwalk look?
    
      Have they started on Coronado Springs?
    
      Did you visit the Shopping Village? Heard the character shop is
      expanding.
    
      Can you see the site for DAK (Disney's Animal Kingdom)?
    
      Nice trip report.
    
      Mike
    
      P.S. Told ya so that you'd like The Lion King Adventure

    
    
    Mike,
    
    I was there May 16-21. Mickey's Starland (soon to be Toontown)
    was still under construction. Sign out front stated a Summer 1996
    opening. When we took the RR around MK, the station at the rear
    of Starland was boarded up. Lot's of construction noise going
    on behind the wall. 
    
    20,000 leagues closed and the Riverboat was in "dry dock". They
    were using the riverboart landing area for character greetings.
    
    Phil

    
    re: 491.26
    
    How did/do you get free/cheap Seaworld passes?
    
    Carol

    RE: -1
    
    We actually got the tickets from my wife's family. She has a relative
    that works for Anheuser-Busch.
    
    
    Mike,
    
    
    As far as your questions, let me see...
    
    #1. There still were no promotions or anything about the 25th. I asked
    at the hotel and a couple of cast members in the park. No one is saying
    too much. They did say they were trying to get all of the attraction
    work completed in time for October. However, there still are no real
    updates...Kinda funny I think. Although in today's Nashua Telegraph
    newspaper it did say Princess Di turned down big money from Disney to
    be a part of the 25th Celebration.
    
    
    #2. Big time construction at Mickey's Starland. From the shyway to
    Fantasyland I did see into tall of the construction. They've taken out
    some of the buildings and the streets being worked on. Where the zoo
    was is gone, and there looks to be some type of foundation where a
    building will be put up.
    
    #3. I didn't mention the Tiki room, because truthfully I forgot to go!
    The week after I got back I stood up in my office and told the person
    in the next cube that I forgot to go see the Tiki birds. I was bummed.
    There was really no activity around the Enchanted Tiki room, and never
    saw anyone going in or going out. It was open though...
    
    #4. Unfortunatly, we didn't get to visit the Timekeeper. This  was another 
    one we didn't go into. Again, there wasn't a lot of activity with
    people going in or out.  Oh well, something to look forward to in a couple 
    years.
    
    
    #5. I went into the Crystal Palace to check it out. We had a 10% off
    coupon (from Birnbaum's book) but my wife didn't want to go in for
    dinner. It looks great. I think it looks better than it did before.
    
    #6. The GM ride at Future World hadn't changed at all since our trip in
    January. When catching WDW TV in the room, they did promote it though.
    They were saying how when completed you can have your own "test drive"
    on a GM test track.
    
    #7. Yes...Sunset Blvd. still has the Sunset Ranch marketplace. Nothing
    has changed there at all.
    
    #8. Boarwalk looked as if it would be ready. Most all of the structures
    appeared to be done, with trim work and clean up still to take place.
    It really looks nice. In speaking to a cast member at the CBR they
    expect to open right on schedule in July. They were also finishing the
    minature golf courses right near Boardwalk. They are really in the
    shadows of the Dolphin and Swan and should be open by now...
    
    #9. I didn't see any work or hear anything on Coronado Springs.
    
    #10. We did visit the Vilage. The character shop will be huge. They
    expect to be done late this summer. It is probably twice the size of
    the current shop. The Village does look nice though. They've taken the
    Empress Lilly and made her into a permanent restaruant it appeared. It
    is now Captain Jack's Crab house or something like that. They removed
    the smoke stacks, and built it right into the pier in the lagoon it
    looks like. The rainforest cafe still wasn't open at the time.
    
    #11. From the top of Summit Plummit I did see massive construction. In
    a straight line as you come towards the Magic Kingdom all of the
    activity is on your left. It appeared to be the size of EPCOT from my
    view up on top of the slide.  I was looking for the "Tree of Life" that
    will be the centerpiece, but I didn't see any construction or anything
    that looked like it was taking shape. But the area cleared is at least
    the size of EPCOT from that vantagepoint.
    
    
    I want to go back...
    
    
    Mark

    You can read some trip reports (mine is there) at the following Web
    Site:
    
    http://members.aol.com/DVClubber/wdwtrip.rpt/wdwtr.htm

    
    
    There is a statement in this trip report that Spectromagic was
    to be "retired" later this year. Is this correct? I read in
    a recent edition of Disney magazine that the Electric Light Parade
    at DisneyLand would be retired. 
    
    Phil

    You may be right. I saw that same article but I would swear someone
    told me that SpectroMagic was going to be retired too. It wouldn't be
    the first time that I only got half the story!

    Can't think of a better place to put this note.
    
    Ed Badger sends his best from The World.
    
    Ed liked Bob wong's (see my '94 report). He also raved about the
    Rainforest Cafe and said they expect to visit that place several
    times.
    
    The phone lines haven't been too good so most of his message is
    somewhat choppy.
    
    Let's see...oh yeah...Ed says that everyone should take the Behind the
    Scenes Tour.
    
    Ed's plan to secretly tape some areas never came about as for certain
    areas of the tour all the guests were required to leave their cameras on 
    the bus.
    
    Finally Ed says his feet are tired...hey Ed stop complaining....ya
    wanna switch places?
    
    Mike  

    Ed says...
    
    Although he liked Bob Wong's, he said it was pricey. Hmmm, their prices
    may have gone up since my last trip. Oh yeah...no Alaskan King
    Crab...but then again...Florida sea food was never high on my list.
    
    Here's an important bit of information. There is MAJOR CONSTRUCTION
    going on along routes 192 and 4 so anyone staying at a hotel along
    those routes may be facing delays.
    
    Ed says anyone staying on 192 or 4 should consider changing their
    reservations. He has noticed major delays and backups this week and
    says that the construction looks long term. Better to detour via Route
    536 to Kissimmee.
    
    Parade routes:
    
         Remember the Magic towards train station
         SpectroMagic towards the castle
    
    Ed says the Remember the Magic music gets to you....repeats and
    repeats.
    
    Ed is using APs and the fingerprint process is still causing delays. It
    sounds like the delays are caused by guests unfamiliar with the
    process. Ed and family have gotten the hang of it and are doing well.
    
    Ed continues to rave about The Rainforest Cafe. That will be my first
    stop when I arrive in Orlando.
    
    Ed says that Test Track looks wild and ominous...high banks...high
    speed...sounds like Ruth Lowell designed it.
    
    Oddyssey Restaurant is closed.
    
    Not only are the double-decker busses gone but Ed has not seen any Main
    Street trolleys or cars...he'll be checking back with more info later
    in the week.
    
    That's it for now. I gave Ed a list of 32 things to check while down
    there. He's doing fine.
    
    More indication of a price hike. Ed turned in some old passes and
    received credit of $37/day for them. He thinks that a price hike is
    right around the corner.
    
    He loved his backstage tour and his wife had a great time at the Disney
    Institute.
    
    I gave him another 6 tasks, erh homework assignments.
    
    Mike

>    Oddyssey Restaurant is closed.

Odyssey has been closed a long time - I'm pretty sure it was closed in
my Oct. 1995 visit.  It was definitely closed in my Aug/Sept. '96 visit.
Possibly because of the GM Test Track construction...? (Which is pretty much
right behind the restaurant.)

At least the restrooms next to Odyssey are open. :-) (Or were in my last
visit.)

- Nina

    Does anyone know of a local dial-up number at Disney for connecting
    to Digital via telnet?

    Re: -1 If anyone knows the answer to that question it would be Ed
    Badger.
    
    More from Ed:
    
       - He said that the crowds down there are pretty good...not real
         crowded.
    
       - For those of who who have never used APs and are thinking about
         them take note. Ed says that this is the first time he and his
         family are using APs and the experience has given them a new
         perspective on visiting the theme parks. With APs he no longer
         feels the need to spend ALL DAY in a park as you would with a 
         multi-day pass.
    
       - Sounds (and I mean sounds) like Disney blew it. Ed is a big fan
         of FW and he is spending two nights at the WL. He sayd that while
         in the campground you can hear the engines revving from the race
         track. Bad move.
    
    Mike

re -.1

	I think Disney has blown it with Fort Wilderness in other ways too. We
just came back from a week down there the beginning of February. (Yeah, I know,
but there just dosen't seem to be enough hours in the day to do a trip report).

	Anyway, we always stay in FW.  We like the atmosphere and the remote
feeling of it even though it is still in the park.  The first thing we noticed
and didn'tlike was the trailer show they were having in the field in front of
the animalarea.  Usually, when you get off the bus at the bus stop near Pioneer
Hall, there is a nice empty field and a view of the corral and animals.  This
time the field was filled with travel trailers that were on display.  They
really took away from the atmosphere.  I can understand how Disney may have
thought that the type of person staying in FW might be interested in a trailer
show but there are a lot better areas in FW to put it then next to Pioneer Hall.

	The other thing that we thought was worse than the trailers was a couple
of new booths set up across the road from Pioneer Hall and the Trails End 
restaurant.  If you haven't done it yet, one of the most relaxing things to do 
at Disney is to sit in the rockers on the porch at the Trails End and just 
people watch.  Unfortunately, this time you ended up looking at these chintzy 
booths that offered things like multicolored wax casts of your hands and rice 
grains with your name written on them.  They really were out of place and gave 
the area an unappreciated carnival atmosphere.

	There was no racing going on when we got there so we didn't hear
anything from there.  

	Looks Disney is just looking for ways to turn another buck and not
taking into consideration the overall effect of their changes on the park.  The
things we noticed (including the fact that, for the most part, housekeeping was
really poor) are probably going to be enough to make us look at staying
somewhere else for the next trip.

George

    If you haven't read Ed Badger's trip report I suggest you go to his web
    site to read it. Pictures add so much...plus you get to see Ed at the
    end of the report.
    
    Some comments:
    
      - Bill Wong's seemed high. I think the difference was that we hit
        Bill Wong's at lunchtime and there were only four of us. Ed's crew
        numbered five and they went there for dinner. I hope to report on 
        Bill Wong's luncheon buffet later this year.
    
      - Yeah I push for everyone to have a car because it makes life easier
        you. Using WDW transportation from the CBR is a bit tricky.
    
      - I am in full agreement with Ed on The Hall of Presidents.
    
      - I didn't think Ed would like the castle. To this day almost every
        time I communicate with cast members they mention the castle and 
        actually count down the number of months before they get their
        castle back.
    
      - By the way Ed...plans for returning the castle to it's beloved
        state call for all that work to begin in early January....so you'll
        be looking at a cake in December.
    
      - Ed mentions how hot it was down there. I'm sure it seems extremely
        uncomfortable to experience 80-90 degree weather in February. It's
        not that bad in the Summer...unless you are sensitive to heat and
        humidity.
    
      - The future Fort Wilderness resort will be known as Wilderness
        Junction and will open later this year.
    
    Looking forward to Ed's report on his backstage tour...don't think
    we'll see as many pictures.
    
    Mike

    Lori...on your trip report....the beginning....
    
    DON'T DO THAT!!!! Jeesh you gave me a heart attack!!
    
    I hope Martinique's pool and laundry area is finished by July.
    
    The strings at OPR are there to discourage the birds, especially the 
    seagulls that come inland during the late Winter months.
    
    Goodings....they charge an arm and a leg for everything....next time
    look for a Publix.
    
    The tight security just reinforces the advantage of having a resort ID.
    
    Sounds like the crowds were extremely high during vacation week. It may
    be an interesting and challenging July.
    
    I have yet to hear any positive remarks involving Illuminations25.
    
    Regarding Pioneer Hall...you can walk to PH from the Wilderness Lodge.
    It's about a 10 minute walk....5 minute run.
    
    It's possible that the cranes you saw behind MGM were there to build
    either David Copperfield's restaurant or the amphitheater for
    Fantasmic....depending upon where you saw them.
    
    By the way...was that Wilderness Lodge tour free and is it available to 
    guests only?
    
    Was the CD you saw titled, "Music From the Parks?"
    
    Regarding the distance from Martinique to the OPR, there are those who 
    say it's close and others who say it's far. When I stay at Martinique I
    go to and from the OPR through the garden route and not along the
    lagoon. It's in the shade and saves a lot of time.
    
    Finally, the reason you didn't see many "shirts" is that they are
    waiting for me.
    
    I can see it now....somewhere in a huge Brazillian soccer field there
    are hundreds.....no thousands of teens and one person with a megaphone 
    is calling out (in Spanish/Brazillian) "Reds over here, yellows over
    there, greens back here, oranges up front."
    
    I have a few more questions:
    
       - Were there any closed attractions?
       - Did you see any interesting statues in Italy (World Showcase)
       - What did you think of the Cakstle?
       - You didn't mention the Tiki Room...I was wondering if the show is
         new.
       - Same for Star Tours...new show?
    
    Thanks for the trip report.
    
    Mike

First of all, thanks for the trip report.  I enjoyed it.

I noticed you choose to drive from CBR to the parks.  When I was at CBR,
the huge positive was the bus transportation.  Never had to wait long at
either end, including after the nightime shows.  Was there any specific
reason you decided to bypass the buses?  Just personal preference?

As for the rooms at CBR, I found them to be quite dismal also.  Sounds like its
definitly time to re-carpet though.  I know the room I had needed it.

cre: <<< Note 227.449 by DONVAN::SCOPA >>>

>    I hope Martinique's pool and laundry area is finished by July.

If not, just ask for a room in Aruba!  :)
    
>    Sounds like the crowds were extremely high during vacation week. It may
>    be an interesting and challenging July.

I've seen them worse, when we went in mid-March, once.  It seemed the longer
we were there, the more crowded it got.
    
>    I have yet to hear any positive remarks involving Illuminations25.

Well, we really liked it.  I can't compare with the old Illuminations, though
since I never saw it.
    
>    Regarding Pioneer Hall...you can walk to PH from the Wilderness Lodge.
>    It's about a 10 minute walk....5 minute run.

Yep, we knew that, but we went to Pioneer Hall while we were staying at CBR;
hence we drove.
    
>    It's possible that the cranes you saw behind MGM were there to build
>    either David Copperfield's restaurant or the amphitheater for
>    Fantasmic....depending upon where you saw them.

It seemed to be between Catastrophe Canyon and the Mouse Ears water tower
(which is painted in Dalmatian spots).  If you enter the park, it looks like
it's behind The Great Movie Ride.  I'm not even sure it was part of MGM
property.  If not, then it's close.
    
>    By the way...was that Wilderness Lodge tour free and is it available to 
>    guests only?

It's free and available to anyone.  They have it twice a day:  9:30 and 3:15.
    
>    Was the CD you saw titled, "Music From the Parks?"

That sounds right.
    
>    Finally, the reason you didn't see many "shirts" is that they are
>    waiting for me.

Maybe they only come out in the summer.
    
>       - Were there any closed attractions?

Wonders Of Life was closed one day while we were at EPCOT, but just for that
day.  Space Mountain was closed 4/28-4/30, but we were already home so it
didn't matter.  Other than that, I didn't see anything else closed.

>       - Did you see any interesting statues in Italy (World Showcase)

Yep!

>       - What did you think of the Cakstle?

The kids didn't care for it.  I had seen so many pictures of it prior that it
didn't shock me.  I prefer the Cinderella's Castle to the birthday cake.  All
I could think of is "It's Pepto-Bismol pink!"

>       - You didn't mention the Tiki Room...I was wondering if the show is
>         new.

Nah, we didn't go.  I had seen it a few times on earlier trips, and Matt
read in his "Disney World For Kids By Kids" book to skip it 'cos it's lame,
so he wasn't interested in it.

>       - Same for Star Tours...new show?

I don't know...the one we had (both times) was a trip to a moon of Endora.
    
RE: Note 227.450 by PATRLR::MCCUSKER

>I noticed you choose to drive from CBR to the parks.  When I was at CBR,
>the huge positive was the bus transportation.  Never had to wait long at
>either end, including after the nightime shows.  Was there any specific
>reason you decided to bypass the buses?  Just personal preference?

My husband HATES buses.  We preferred the flexibility of the car.  We did
use the water shuttle when we stayed at the Wilderness Lodge, though.

>As for the rooms at CBR, I found them to be quite dismal also.  Sounds like its
>definitly time to re-carpet though.  I know the room I had needed it.

Maybe that'll be part of their renovations.  Hopefully they'll get rid of the
mold and mildew smell around the sink.  I left a note on the comment card about
this.

I just received a WDW survey in the mail today on the CBR.  The enclosed letter
stated they were giving the survey out to a "small, but significant
cross-section of our guests".

- Lori

    RE:  Hagen Trip Report
    
    Lori,
    
    It appears that you used the early entry times when you visited the
    parks.  A couple comments in your report indicated the crowds were
    fairly large during early entry.  Also, I believe you mentioned that
    MGM only had three attractions open.
    
    1)  Were the early entry crowds manageable ??
    2)  Would you have benefited more by visiting other parks when one 
        has early entry ??
    3)  Did the MK have most attractions operational during early entry ??
    
    
    Thanks
    
    Bill 

RE: -.1

Bill,

>    1)  Were the early entry crowds manageable ??

Yes, except for that one day I mentioned - Thursday - at the Magic Kingdom.
It was pretty crowded.

>    2)  Would you have benefited more by visiting other parks when one 
>        has early entry ??

If you are not staying on-site, then definitely visit one of the other parks
on early-entry days.  If you are staying on-site and you have a park hopper
pass, then I'd suggest you do what we did, based on a suggestion I read in this
notesfile: visit the early-entry park in the morning when it first opens, then 
leave by 1:00 and go to one of the other parks.

>    3)  Did the MK have most attractions operational during early entry ??

Definitely.
    
- Lori