Conference koolit::disney

    Heidi,
    
    All I can say is that I have a friend who works for the FAA and he
    shudders every time I mention one of these airlines (Leisure $79
    to Florida).
    
    He is bothered from the fact that most of these planes were made
    outside the U.S.
    
    Safety first.
    
    Mike

    
    re - Leisure Air :
    
    	Last time I went to Fla., I flew Leisure Air, non-stop from Boston
    to Orlando, $79 each way. ( this was Sept. 92 )
    
    	Basic no-frills transportation - ie: you get what you pay for.  The
    plane seemed safe enough ( no screws missing from the fuselage or
    frayed wing cables :-) ), and I departed and arrived on time on both
    legs of the round trip.  Of course, this might have been the exception,
    rather than the rule :-)
    	
    	FWIW, my brother-in-law is a captain for USAir - he flew one of
    their flights to Orlando last week ( apparently they both own and
    operate their own planes, and charter through other companies ).  But
    when I flew, it was one of their own.
    
    				- Jim
    

    Having just return from WDW this past Friday via Continental let
    me just tell you I will never go again on a no frills cheap airline.
    We were an hour late arriving into Orlando and 4 and half hours late
    arriving back home to Boston.  No storms delays were mention, no
    excuses just very unhappy passengers asking why the flight from
    Orlando to Newark was not leaving at 2:30 but instead at 3:40. No
    comment by the continental people.  Then once in Newark at 6:30 left
    Orlando at 3:40, the plane to Boston that was supposed to leave at 6:00
    we thoughty we had missed was pushed up to leaving at 8:00 again when I
    ask a continental official, he rudely told me I would have to wait
    until 8:00 or look for another airline that would fly me to Boston.  It
    was something out of a Saturday Nite Live scene, people yelling vowing
    never to take Continental again.  We finally arrive in Boston at 8:45
    where some people found their luggage did not make it.  As far as I am
    considered Continental earns their lousy reputation.  I have flown US
    Air , American, Delta, AmericanWest many times without a delay or
    problem.  This was my first trip with Continental and my LAST.
    
    Bottom line we paid $288.50 a ticket roundtrip for the airline from
    hell.  I don't think $288.50 is cheap either.
    

Thank you for flying Continental, "The Subway of the Skies" :-)


todd///

RE last couple - Interesting.  My S.O. and I flew Continental from Boston
to Orlando at Christmas time and had absolutely no problems either way.  Of
course, we did have to travel via Cleveland... :-)  (Seems out of the way, but
it was the cheapest fare we could get at the time!)

My main complaint was that we did not get any food (just drinks) on the
Boston-Cleveland leg, and we left at lunchtime, and I was starving. 
Fortunately (?!), we had about 3 hours at the Cleveland airport in which to
find something to eat!  (That was the scheduled layover - no delay or anything.)

						-- Nina

    You never can tell.  I have had some of my worst experiences on
    United Air Lines (flying from Hawaii to Burbank via San Francisco; the
    plane was late getting into SF, my flight left the gate, but stopped to
    put my luggage on, leaving me and my date in SF with no coats or clean
    ANYTHING), and one of my ex-colleagues, two weeks ago, on her last trip
    for digital, got stranded overnight in Denver.
    
    I've had Alaska Air lines misplace my luggage in Seattle (It was on the
    plane, it arrived with me; they just "forgot" to put it on the belt).
    
    It's just the luck of the draw.  Welcome to the generation of no
    service for your money.  

    My job in Digital keeps me flying quite frequently.  Over the last 16
    years, I've probably flown at least 1000 flight segments.  There will
    always be exceptions, but after you've flown on an airline 20 times or
    so, I believe that you can get a fairly good feel for their strengths
    and weaknesses.
    
    In my personal opinion, Continental is the absolute worst airline
    among major or semi-major carriers.  Have I had good flights with
    Continental, that included on-time departure and arrival, and courteous
    professional service?  Yes, but those flights were few and far between.
    
    I also avoid Sheraton Hotels whenever possible, who have only recently
    had their quality take a very dramatic drop.
    
    If you want details, contact me.
    
    Cheers,
    Ken
    

    Carnival airlines were created mainly to provide service for
    the Carnival Cruise ships. 
    
    One thing about them is they are backed up by a large corporation
    and provide an important service to them.  This will not guarantee
    good service but it provides a much better chance of the airline
    existing when you want to fly with that ticket you purchased 
    months before.
    
    The following is some information you might find interesting about
    Carnival and other cheap airlines taken from the Holiday
    notes conference.
    
    ..............................................
    
           <<< NACAD::USER$80:[NOTES$LIBRARY]HOLIDAY_TRAVEL.NOTE;2 >>>
                         -< Holiday Travel Conference >-
================================================================================
Note 4.292                   The Cheap Airfare note                   292 of 292
LEEL::LINDQUIST                                     140 lines  23-NOV-1993 11:55
               -< I thought folks might find this interesting. >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

...from the New York Times, via USENET

 
The following article is from the New York Times Travel Section
on Sunday, November 21, 1993.  This should answer many rec.travel.air
questions that begin with "Does anybody know about X airline?"
 
Airlines in this list:  American Trans Air, Carnival Airlines, Kiwi
Air Lines, MarkAir, Midwest Express, Morris Air, Private Jet, Reno
Air, and Tower Air.
 
Perhaps this could go in a FAQ, as long as credit is given to the
author of the article.
------------------------------
TAKING OFF WITH START-UPS
By Betsy Wade
 
   There are airlines out there you have never heard of.  It has been
said that hundreds have been launched since the Government deregulated
the industry in 1978.  But when the trade publication Travel Weekly
took a tally recently, it tracked only 50 new lines that actually
flew scheduled jet service in the last 15 years, either as start-up
companies or as carriers that shifted under deregulation.
   One of the 50, America West, has become a major carrier although
it is currently operating under Chapter 11 of the bankruptcy code.
Most, like People Express and New York Air, rose and sank.  Some of
the 50 now offer only charters, and 15 offer scheduled service.
   Here is basic information about nine survivors that sell to the
public.  Unrestricted fares and narrow markets are their specialties,
and travelers should not ignore the possibility that a smaller line
can make a timely connection more cheaply than a big airline, or
at least at a matching price.
 
AMERICAN TRANS AIR does both charter and scheduled flights, having
started scheduled service out of its headquarters, Indianapolis, in
1986 and out of Chicago in 1992.  Now it flies to Las Vegas and seven
Florida destinations from these cities, and in December it will add
service from Boston, Philadelphia and Milwaukee to Florida.  From
Indianapolis it also flies to Cancun, the Virgin Islands and Jamaica.
It sells unrestricted one-way tickets on the domestic routes starting
at $89, with the day of the week affecting prices by $10 to $30.  The
line is in the Sabre reservations system under TZ, but tickets must
be ordered by phone and delivered by mail.  It has 25 planes, 727's,
757's and L-1011's, both owned and leased.  American Trans Air,
(800) 225-2995 or (317) 248-8308.
 
CARNIVAL AIRLINES began five years ago, principally to serve Carnival
Cruise Lines.  In addition to charters, it has scheduled service between
give airports in the Northeast -- Islip, L.I.; Newark and Kennedy
Airports; White Plains, and Worcester, Mass., -- and four in Florida --
Tampa, Palm Beach, Fort Lauderdale and Miami.  The Florida-based line
has other routes, including New York to Puerto Rico and Nassau,
and Miami to Los Angeles.  Its tickets from the Northeast to Florida
cost $99, $129, $149 and $179 one way, and a cheap ticket may sell out
far in advance.  There are no restrictions on length of stay.  In
reservations systems as KW, it has 17 planes, owned and leased:  737's,
727's and 767's.  Carnival, (800) 824-7386 or (305) 923-8672.
 
KIWI AIR LINES, one year old, is an all-scheduled carrier serving
Chicago, Atlanta and Tampa, Orlando and West Palm Beach, Fla., and
San Juan, P.R., from Newark.  It also flies Chicago to Tampa, and
to Orlando and on to San Juan.  Its spokesman, Rob Kulat, says it
matches the lowest restricted fare of the bigger airlines, but it has
no restrictions on stay or advance pchase.  Newark-Atlanta is
$84.50 one way, for example.  Kiwi, in reservations systems under
KP, leases eight 727's.  Kiwi, (800) 538-5494 or (201) 622-3232.
 
MARKAIR, with headquarters in Anchorage, began flying passengers in
1984.  It now connects Eastern and Middle Western cities -- New York
from Newark, Washington, Atlanta, Dallas, Chicago, Minneapolis --
with Phoenix, San Diego, Las Vegas, Los Angeles, San Francisco and
Portland, Ore., through Denver.  For service in Alaska, where it
touches 130 cities, it has hubs in Seattle and Anchorage.  It is
in Chapter 11 and its reorganization plan was approved in June.  It
has fares with no restrictions that, according to Steve Sparkman, a
spokesman, match the lowest restricted fares.  Its computer code
is BF, and it has 13 737's, both leased and owned.  Markair,
Anchorage, Alaska, (800) 627-5247 or (907) 266-6802.
 
MIDWEST EXPRESS, a subsidiary of the Kimberly-Clark paper company,
began life as the company airlines; it began serving the public in
1984.  Its hub in Milwaukee connects with Atlanta, Boston, Columbus,
Dallas, Kansas City, Las Vegas, Los Angeles, Newark and La Guardia,
Philadelphia, San Diego, San Francisco and Washington, and there is
winter service to Phoenix, Ariz., and Fort Myers, Fort Lauderdale
and Tampa, Fla.  Midwest Express describes itself as offering "one-class
luxury service."  The seat pitch is 34 inches, in contrast with most
coach seats' 29 or 30 inches.  Listed in the Sa computer under YX,
it has 16 planes, mostly DC-9's, most of which it owns.  The line
says its fares in each market are competitive with other lines' and
sometimes lower.  Midwest Express, (414) 747-4646 or (800) 452-2022.
 
MORRIS AIR's flights are almost all under two hours, with fares linked
to elapsed timof purchase.  The line, which switched from
all-charter to scheduled service this year, serves 22 cities in the
West and vacation spots in Florida, Mexico and Hawaii.  A flight of
one hour or less will cost $39 one way, 14 days in advance, $49
seven days in advance and $69 at flight time.  Longer flights range
from $49 to $119.  Morris, with headquarters in Salt Lake City, uses
the designation KN, and has 21 planes, owned and leased, all 737's.
Morris Air, (801) 466-7747 or (800) 466-7747.
 
PRIVATE JET expanded in May from flying only charters to doing
scheduled flights too.  From its hub in Atlanta, it flies to Chicago,
Miami, Nasville and Las Vegas.  It offers a $99 one-way walk-up
fare -- a stand-by ticket -- for any of its trips.  Confirmed seats
bought in advance cost $129 to $159 one way.  The line leases 12
MD-80 planes and its code is 5J.  Private Jet, (800) 949-9400 or
(404) 231-7570.
 
RENO AIR started flying in July 1992.  From Reno, it serves Seattle,
Portland, Ore., and San Jose, Ontario, Burbank, Los Angeles and
San Diego, Calif., with some flights touching two other cities.  In
December, it will add Las Vegas, Nev., and Tucson and Phoenix, Ariz.
It sells unrestricted one-way tickets with prices based on advance
purchase:  14-day, 7-day and walk-up; San Jose to Los Angeles costs
$49, $59 or $69 on this basis.  The highest fare is $125 from Seattle
or Portland to Southern California.  Listed under QQ, it leases
17 planes, all MD-80's.  Reno Air, (800) 736-6247 or (702) 829-5100
 
TOWER AIR, having marked its 10th anniversary as a scheduled airline,
features an unrestricted fare structure.  The policy, according to
Adrienne Biel in the marketing department, is to match or beat the
cheapest fare on a particular route.  Tower flies from its hub
at Kennedy International Airport to Miami; Los Angeles; San Francisco;
San Juan, P.R.; Paris, and Sao Paulo, Brazil, and connects some of
these destinations.  It also flies to Israel, but fares on that route
have the customary restrictions.  On Dec. 25, Tower plans to start
a Kennedy-Boston service.  It is in the System 1 and Worldspan
systems under FF.  The line has 11 passenger 747's, some owned and
some leased.  Tower Air, New York reservations (718) 553-8500;
outside of New York, (800) 221-2500 or (800) 348-6937.
 
Two companies advertising low fares are not airlines.
WINGS OF THE WORLD is a tour operator.  REPUBLIC AIR is a charter
operator that was accused Nov. 1 by the Department of Transportation
of violating the public charter regulations requiring that
deposits be held in escrow accounts.  The company and other
respondents were given a deadline of tomorrow to answer the complaint.

           <<< NACAD::USER$80:[NOTES$LIBRARY]HOLIDAY_TRAVEL.NOTE;2 >>>
                         -< Holiday Travel Conference >-
================================================================================
Note 4.294                   The Cheap Airfare note                   294 of 294
ICS::MORRISEY                                        30 lines  23-NOV-1993 18:11
                       -< between Worcester and Florida >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Cheap: Massachusetts to Florida...
    
    	Thanks for copying the article (-2 notes)...; in the Boston Globe
    there have been 2 'non-major' airlines advertising reasonably cheap
    fares between Worcester and Florida:
    
    1. The Florida Shuttle (Leisure Air) 1-800-FLY-SOUTH
       "daily, non-stop airfares $99 (one-way) with no restrictions".
       
       "Connecting West Palm Beach, Florida via Palm Beach Intl Airport
        with Hardford/Springfield via Bradley International,
        Boston/Providence via Worcester Airport and New York/New Jersey
        via Newark International".
    
        Fare: $99.00 one way.
        "fares submect to change after 12/15/93"
        "reservation fee of $15 per one way flight is additional for
         other than walk up and fly fares"
        "$3.00 passenger facility fee when applicable"
        "food and beverage for sale aboard aircraft".
    
    2. Carnival Air Lines   1-800-8-AIRFUN
    
       "nonstops from Worcester Airport to Ft. Lauderdale begin Dec 17."
       
       Fare $99.00  ("each way thru 1/15/94. Limited, may not be available
       on all flights/dates.  More seats at higher rates; none over
       $209.00....Add $3.00 Airport Passenger Facility Charge and $2.00
       fuel surcharge for Florida departures").
    
    
    

    I booked Carnival Airlines out of Worcester for a trip to Orlando this
    Oct.
    
    - Nonstop Flight
    - $230.00 per adult $171.00 per child.
     
    This was the best price I got from 5 other airlines, for my particular
    date and time. This will be the first time I used this airline. 
    
    Rick L.
    
     

     We just flew RT from boston to Orlando (non-stop), and returned from
     Ft Laud to Boston (non-stop)...on ATA ( American Trans Air )...
    
     Both flights left on time...in flight movie....no 'food' (snack)...
     Fare was $180 RT.....plane was L1011....flew out of DELTA term at
    Logan. Service was polite, baggage in tact etc. They also arranged an
    AVIS car rental for $89/wk no milage.
    
    ATA appears very professional and responsible.....on time....bring a 
    sandwich.....only $90 each way, and you have airport choices of
    Orlando, Ft Laud, & Ft myers.
    
    All they lacked was food....but airline food is no big deal !....
    I'd use them again, total good experience....Unless we just lucked out
    
    Jp