Conference koolit::disney

    
    o  For most theater-type attractions, if you walk around the croud
    instead of bunching towards the closest entrance to the theater,
    making you have to walk in a curve towards the entrance instead
    of that straight line, you will usually have a front row seat.
      
     Disney likes to reward patience.

    

    
    Re: .1
    
      Rich,
    
        I've also done this but have found it frustrating to have to,
    
                " Move All The Way To The End Of The Row ".
                
        I prefer to be as close to the center as possible to maximize
        my viewing pleasure. I generally try to pinpoint a spot in the
        line where I think I'll end up with a seat in the middle. Any
        other ideas ?
    
      George

    
     RE .2
    
     Ah, George, I'd forgotten about an important tip to overcome this
    difficulty.  Thanks for reminding me.
    
     Well, if you 'just have to' walk that extra distance, just let
    the other guests rush by you while you drag your feet.  There's
    nothing more disturbing to a guest who has been running around the
    park, trying to catch everything in a day, to have an open door
    in front of him and a slow poke between him and the door. 
    
     When you get in the theater, hang back.  The masses who tried to
    rush the other entrances will now be rushing to get to the front.
    
     Another tip.  Ask the Castmember how many people the theater can
    seat and then let half of them go before you.  If you want to really
    try to be precise, find out how many people are waiting in the Pre-
    show area.  All theaters have a method for counting guests and an
    alarm will ring off when approching that number.  Most have a dis-
    play of the current number, in LEDs near the inside entrance to
    the preshow.  Divide up this number and the full capacity number
    and go when a number of guests between the two numbers, have gone
    by.
    
    Rich
    

    When we went to WDW last October, I printed notes from HOLIDAY_TRAVEL
    note 6.* that I wanted to refer to while on the trip and stuck them
    into the Birbuam Book in the appropriate area.
    
    Then, in the moring while I waited for the others to get ready (I
    get up first) I'd read Birbaum and the snips of NOTES inserted in
    the various chapters.  Then with the tips and hints fresh in my mind
    we'd go to the attraction d'jour.
    
    So, many of the noter's comments went with us to WDW !
    
    Gary 

    moved by moderator, to where it belongs,
    
    Claude
    
                <<< INDMKT::DUA0:[NOTES$LIBRARY]DISNEY.NOTE;1 >>>
                                 -< DISNEYANA >-
================================================================================
Note xxx.x                 Based on our experience....                No replies
ASABET::YEE_WONG                                     60 lines  13-JUN-1989 13:42
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    We were recently in WDW and have some information that we would
    like to contribute:
    
    -  if you have kids and they insist on having their picture taken
       with Mickey, take them to Mickey's Birthday Land.  Take in
       the birthday party (this is the seated part) and after the party
       is over, head on directly out the exit (don't stick around for
       the second half of the party...only lasts a few minutes) and
       into the movie theater and you will have little or no wait for
       Mickey.  Or even better yet, just skip the show and when
       it's almost over, just head directly to the theater.  (We
       learned this the hard way when we realized the day after we
       went that there was no film in the camera!  At least we were
       the first in line to have our kids picture take with Mickey.)
    -  if you plan on going to the MK, park your car at one of the
       hotels (Contemporary, Polynesian or Grand Floridian).  The 
       lines waiting to board the monorail (coming and going) are 
       much shorter!
    -  Don't eat at the restaurant that is in Adventureland (sponsered
       by Kikkoman.)  The wait just to order the food and waiting
       for the food to come out was ridiculous!  (The food wasn't
       very good either!!!!)
    -  The best value for lunch is at the Columbia House (in Liberty
       Square?) and we agree with the other noters that the monte
       cristo sandwich is very good.  You get 4 half sandwiches and
       a little fruit cup for a little over $4 (?).  We (husband
       and myself) couldn't finish eating the sandwiches...we found
       it to be too much.  In addition, the service was fast it
       appeared to be better organized than some of the other
       restaurants/fast foods in the MK.
    -  if you have reservations to the Hoop-de-doo and are not
       staying in Fort Wilderness, you will have to park your
       car in the main parking lot and take a shuttle over to
       Pioneer Hall.  And then, if you don't have your tickets,
       you will have to wait in another line just to get them...
       but don't worry...at least they assign tables to those
       who have reservations.  (In other words, allow enough
       time for you to get from the parking lot to the hall.)
    -  if you have smalll kids and do not plan on bringing a stroller,
       by all means rent one at the park.  The strollers at MK
       and Epoct are the types that fold down so that if you have
       2 small kids, one can sit facing front and the other can
       sit facing back.  (The strollers at MK and Epcot are very
       sturdy.  The strollers at MGM are the umbrella type.)
    -  At MGM, the first Monster Sound Show doesn't begin until
       10 A.M. (if memory serves me right.)  Also, 
       if you bring your small one on the studio tour, by all
       means, bring your fold-up stroller since the second half
       of your tour is all walking and standing (no sitting).
                                                             
    -  don't forget that you get a 10% discount when shopping at
       the Walt Disney World Village (at least in the Mickey
       Character store you do...but you must show you MKC membership
       card.)  I wouldn't buy videos there (or at the Disney stores
       here at the Burlington Mall since you can get the same tapes
       cheaper at a store like BJs or Lechmere.)  If you find something
       you like while down in WDW, buy it there because chances are,
       you  won't find it at the Disney store or in their catalog.
    
    Sorry to be so long.  Hope that this is of help to some of you!

    Good Information!  We are leaving for Disney in 5 Days..  
    
    My question is around your comment ....getting to the Hoop-De-Doo
    review, and having to drive your car to Fort Wilderness....
    
    Do you recommend this if we are staying at the Polynesian?  Can't
    we take the monorail to the TTC and then the bus to Fort Wilderness?
    
    How much time do you think it will take to get from the Polynesian
    to Fort Wilderness, Pioneer Hall?
    
    Regards,
    
    Carla
    

rep to < Note 97.6 by WMOIS::C_JALBERT >

>    How much time do you think it will take to get from the Polynesian
>    to Fort Wilderness, Pioneer Hall?

    Carla,
    
    On my  last  trip  staying  at  the  Disney  INN,  when  we went to the
    Hoop-Dee-Doo, it took  us  about  35  min  using  the WDW Busses.  Even
    though at the time  the  Disney  Inn/Poly Bus to the TTC is was one and
    the same, as luck would have  it, as we were arriving at the TTC we saw
    the Fort Wilderness bus leave so we had to take the next on (about a 15
    min wait).
    
    The Bus from the TTC-FW takes a special  route  near  the  Contemporary
    (but  on  the other side of Bay Lake), which is  only  used  by  Disney
    personnel  (electric  gate) and is a lot quicker than the normal  roads
    from the MK.
    
    Claude

    Another Way to get to Pioneer Hall would be to take to monorail
    from the Polynesian to either the Contemporary ro Magic Kingdom
    and that the boat to Fort Wilderness.  This may or may not take
    longer depending on how luck you are in making you connections.
    The boat ride is nice you go around discovery island.

    
    	dan

	Another way to go, if it's still in operation, is to take the boat 
	from the Polynesian Boat dock directly to Fort Wilderness.

	--Jay

    Thanks for the info... I already have the reservations made and
    will be picking up the tickets when we check in!  I can't believe
    how excited I am about going to Disney World!  I only hope, as
    a first timer my expectations aren't TOO GREAT.
    
    Only Today, and Tomorrow to work, Saturday to pack and we are OFF!
    
    Regards,
    
    Carla
    

    In response to .6
    
    It is all a matter of personal preference as far as taking th bus
    or car to the hoop-de-doo.  Since we were staying at the Caribbean
    Beach resort and we had our 2 girls (3 and 4 1/2), we found it
    easier and more convenient to take the car.  Since you are staying
    at the polynesian, the ride over there is less then 10 minutes
    vs. the bus (which takes ????).
    
    On another note....
    
    After reading one of the trip notes, if you really want to have
    your picture or your kids picture taken with one of the characters,
    by all means go to one of the character breakfasts...it's worth
    the money and you don't have to hassle with the crowds.  We took
    in the character breakfasts at the contemporary and the grand 
    floridian as well as a character dinner at the contemporary.  While
    we were there, we were visited by goofy, pluto, chip and dale, the
    white rabbit (from alice in wonderland), breer fox, smee (from peter
    pan).  These characters will stop at each table and spend some time
    with you....something that doesn't happen when you catch them walking
    around the MK.
    
    Jean

    
    re: .6 and .12
    
    I will second the characher breakfast's to get pictures with the
    characters.  I've been to the one at the polyneesian three times
    and have always found it the food to very good, and a great chance
    for the kids to see the characters.  The characters come to each
    table so there is no pushing, and the will sign autographs and pose
    for as many pictures as you may want.  
    
    Another good place to see characters is inside the magic kingdom
    in by the sun bank.  In the morning there are frequently characters
    there with cast members controling the lines.
    
    

    The following is an observation from a recent trip to DisneyWorld
    (Trip report to be entered soon).
    
    In the Magic Kingdom, there seem to be a group of rides that always
    "seem" to have a long line. (Haunted Mansion, Space Mountain, etc).
    I have found a way to minimize the wait at these lines. I managed to
    get into Space Mountain 3 time, with each time taking less than 15
    minutes to get onto the ride, during regular times (ie: 10 am to 4 pm).
    
    While sitting around waiting for my 3 year old to regain some
    energy...I noticed that there are a "LOT" of groups within Magic
    Kingdom, and these groups travel as a group from ride to ride. I saw
    herds of 20 to 30 people going from ride to ride. Talk about extending
    a line real fast!!!
    
    Here is what I did to minimize waiting at the favorite rides......
    
    Ride a bunch of other rides first, get tired, get thirsty, get to where
    you and the family would like a little rest.
    
    Buy softdrinks, sandwitches, etc and find a table, chairs, etc near the
    entrance to the ride that you want to go on (IE: Space Mountain). Rest,
    enjoy your sodas, sandwitches (careful here with Space Mountain) and
    watch the lines. Sometime within an hour the line will go down until
    the end of the line will go into the Mountain. Now is the time to go
    for it.
    
    Just sitting around one of these attractions, I could see a pattern
    beginning to form. Everyone gets to the attraction at the same time.
    The line grows very long. People say they will check back later, in the
    mean time the lines get small. Now's the time to jump in. 
    
    Within an hour time frame I was very accustomed to seeing 2 or 3 of
    these cycles at any particular attraction.  
    
    If nothing else, while you are refilling with drinks and sandwitches,
    see if you notice this kind of thing happening at the attractions
    around you!!!
    
    Ken

Some thing else to watch out for if you are taking WDW from TTC to MGM.
We found as of late last month that the WDW busses enter the MGM bus stop
area through the same access roads used by people arriving in personal
cars.  We had to wait in line about 20 minutes as the cars ahead of us
paid their parking fees at the auto entrance.  Elsewhere in Disney the
busses use separate entrances or service roads to avoid the other traffic.
I was surprised at our having to wait at MGM and hope that they will
correct this.

Marty

    [This note entered by my wife and son, who just returned from WDW.]

    We just returned from Walt Disney World and had a wonderful time.
    Our trip was made all the more relaxing and pleasurable by
    employing some basic tips which family and friends had passed on to
    us beforehand. Here are a few suggestions:

    o First off, buy Sehlinger's "Unofficial Guide to WDW" and use it. The
      touring trips are fantastic and enabled us to see all the prime
      attractions in a minimum of time. Follow his suggestions and you will
      beat the crowds.
    o I don't see any advantage to renting a car in Orlando. We stayed at
      the Holiday Inn Main Gate East and used a local bus service everyday.
      It was quick, inexpensive ($5 round trip per person) and got us there
      early enough to see the prime attractions before the crowds hit (about
      10:30 a.m.)
    
    o Invest in a pair of walking shoes or sturdy sneakers.
    o Bring a backpack for shlepping  your camera, money, etc. Ladies can
      leave their handbags back at the hotel and be a lot happier. The
      people I saw with videocameras looked miserable. Lighten your load!
    o Do not bring rain gear. When we were there (March 26-31, 1990) we
      had late p.m. thundershowers on two days and within seconds the
      Disney people had stocked the souvenir booths with $3 ponchos. We
      also used the rain as an opportunity to run through some rides
      that had had 60-minute lines all afternoon. We saw Star Tours
      twice in 15 minutes.
    o Space Mountain is a truly frightening ride. My 11-year-old hotshot
      said it was ten times as fast and scary as the one at Disneyland.
      You have to really like rollercoasters to like this. If you still
      are uncertain, you can get a glimpse of this monster by riding the
      Wedway People Mover and see inside Space Mountain.
    o If you get to the parks late and still want to see the hot rides,
      wait until one of the Disney street attractions, such as the 3
      p.m. parade in the Magic Kingdom. This draws away all the crowds
      from the rides (especially Thunder Mountain) and you can zip right
      in. This strategy also works after 4:30 or 5 p.m. when most people
      leave for their hotels. This may not work as well at MGM, where
      the lines never let up all day.
    o A culinary note: There seems to be a nice selection of veggie-type
      foods. There's a veggie handwich in the MK, lots of yogurt swirls,
      some fresh fruit salads and cheese plates. My absolute favorite snack
      is a tropical fruit slush and soft vanilla ice cream swirl which is
      available at the snack bar in Adventureland. A soft Creamsicle.
      Luscious.
    o If you want to return to your hotel for a mid-day siesta, so be it.
      However, I recommend using the hot afternoon hours to avoid the lines
      at the rides and premier attractions and go into the air-conditioned
      theatre attractions like "Magic Journeys" in the MK, "Impressions of
      France" in Epcot/World Showcase.
    o Eating dinner in Epcot can be a hassle. You have to make reservations
      early through the Worldkey videotex systems in EarthStation in back of
      Spaceship Earth. If you don't do it early, everything gets booked up
      to 9 p.m. However, we had a pleasant surprise one afternoon: We tried
      to get a reservation at the Biergarten in the Germany pavilion and
      were told nothing was available. Remembering the computer motto GIGO,
      I figured that probably people who changed their minds never bothered
      to cancel a reservation. We hiked over to Germany and managed to get
      right in, The food was excellent. The beer and wine list looked great.
      And the entertainment was a lot of fun. It was like being in a real
      outdoor German beer garden. I also recommend the Akershaus in the
      Norway Pavilion for some excellent food. All the smoked salmon and
      venison ragout you can eat (and much more) for $15 for adults and $6
      for the kids. And a beautiful setting.
    o If you've been to Universal Studios in California and really enjoyed
      it, you will find MGM a pale imitation and very crowded. I would skip
      it if you don't have the extra day to spend.
    o For a relaxing change of pace, try Typhoon Lagoon. A great water park
      with a colossal wave pool and a wonderful floating ride called Castaway
      Creek that's an adult's idea of paradise. We were also told that River
      Country was worth the trip. Try either of these in the middle of the
      trip as a way of recharging your batteries.
    o Arrange to stay until 10 p.m. one night at Epcot to see IllumiNations,
      the light show. This is a must see. But, get over to the lagoon by
      9:15 to get a good viewing spot by the railing, or you will miss half
      the show.
    

    I'm back (trip report to follow I PROMISE!) but I wanted to log the NEW
    things that we learned this trip. . . .
    
    The Ferry is now better in ALL cases for getting from TTC to MK.  It is
    much easier access for wheel chairs, strollers, elderly folks who move
    slow or parents carrying sleepy kids after a long day, BUT most
    importantly the monorails seem really SLUGGISH right now.  Every time
    we rode it, it made several stops for 'routine maintenance' and/or
    'traffic control'; now I ask you, how much traffic can/should there be?
    Birnbaum 1990 still says use the monorail, but we found otherwise!
    
    IF you are going with a large group during the summer months, buy
    NON-YELLOW rain ponchos before you go and carry them with you at all
    times!  It rained a few drops everyday we were there, but the night we
    were having dinner at Norway it came a downpour that lasted all night.
    I went and bought 9 ponchos (about $38 worth) and we continued. 
    However trying to keep 9 people (ages 7-79) together in those crowds is
    tough anytime, but when your 9 and 10,000 others are ALL wearing yellow
    panchos with the hoods pulled up, it gets nerve-wracking!
    
    For Teen-age Mutant Ninga Turtle fans, we happened to be walking down
    Mickey Avenue from the rest/stop at the end of Part one of the Back Lot
    tour (this is the way to get back to the main part of MGM without
    taking the walking tour!) at 11:00 and the TMNT came around the corner
    in their car.  There was NO ONE on the street except us and then and I
    had a perfect view to take a picture.  They didn't stop or pose or
    anything as I imagine they were supposed to be at the picture-taking
    area on the hour, but I did get a nice picture as they approached!
    
    Leaving the TTC to get the tram to take you to your car can be a MAJOR
    bottleneck after fireworks or the electric light parade in MK.  If you
    bear to the right (the crowds will be going left!) there is a sign that
    says "Walkway to Polynesian".  Go out this gate and you'll be about 10
    yards from the trams and will have saved MANY steps plus the bottleneck
    of getting through the turnstiles with everyone else.
    
    TRAM service at MGM is poor.  Majority of the Trams only go to one end
    of the parking lot.  We were there at 8:00 each morning (twice) and had
    to park at the other end.  (never did figure out how you got to park in
    the HIGH numbered end!)  When we were ready to leave the tram driver
    said Only #s 38-49 (or some such combination!) everyone else disembark
    and the next tram will go to all rows.  Well we waited in the heat of
    the the day for 3 more, who all said the same thing, and then I
    started to yell!  The guy at the end of the tram (rear) was VERY
    gracious and immediately announced that this tram would go to ALL rows.
    (He did make a slightly snide remark, but maybe he was trying to be
    funny!)  If you get told to wait for the next tram, make sure someone
    in the group is positioned to be able to talk to the cast-member at the
    rear of the tram.  Explain that the last one left you behine and they
    will take you on this one!
    
    Speaking of trams, they are REALLY enforcing the limit of 5 people to a
    seat!  We got separated one morning and it took 3 trams to get our
    group back together again!  In MGM, the parking lot is marked with RED
    poles that show the drivers were to stop.  As long as you are BETWEEN
    the red poles and not too close to either of them, you should be able
    to get on!  At TTC, there are NO such markings.  We were first in-line
    for the next tram as one pulled away.  We would have been on the last
    two rows of the one that we missed.  Unfortunately, the next one pulled
    up further, so our group of 9 was now forced into the back row.  The
    'enforcer' would not pull away with 7 of us on one row (2 managed to
    get into other rows!) so 2 had to get off.  The next tram that came
    along pulled up even further, so those 2 got 'squeezed' out again!
    
    CROWD MANAGEMENT - EPCOT Center was very light on Monday, very heavy on
    Tuesday and Wednesday, fairly light againon Thursday.  Do MGM EARLY in
    the day, leave as the lines get long between 11:30 and 12:30, go back
    to the hotel or go shopping for the heat of the day, then do the Magic
    Kingdom in the evenings.  Don't miss Delta's Dream Flight and also do
    the WEDWAY people mover after dark, if you haven't seen the graphics
    inside space mountain.  They are spectacular after dark!
    
    Gotta run . . . work to do!
    
    Maryann
    

    MGM opens 2 hours earlier for disney hotel guests, not sure if this
    holds true for the Magic Kingdom or Epcot can anyone verify this. 
    All you need is your hotel card and passport to be admitted early.
    This is a great way to beat the crowds.

        Currently, MGM is opening one hour earlier for resort guests
        (7 AM).  You do not need to show your hotel ID, so really,
        anyone can go early.  They only advertise this to people
        staying at WDW via a card in each room.

        We went at 7 AM on our first day at WDW (before we were
        staying on property).  In advance, we had made lunch
        reservations for the 50's Prime Time Cafe. We had already
        decided that we did not want to do the walking section of the
        backstage tour because the kids get too bored.  Also, at this
        time we did not know about the "Here comes the Muppets" show. 
        Other than those two attractions, we saw all of the whole park
        in record time.  We went to the 9:45 AM showing of Indiana
        Jones Stunt Spectacular, and that was the final attraction of
        the day!!!

        BTW, we toured in the order recommended by the "Unofficial
        Guide to WDW".  We were at the gates at 6:50, and were
        admitted promptly at 7:00.  We were the first people on Star
        Tours, followed by the Great Movie Ride, Backstage tour (tram
        portion only), Monster Sound Show, Animation tour, Superstar
        Television (I did the news on the Today show).  At this point,
        it was 9:30AM.  We took a 15 minute coffee break and then went
        to the 9:45 showing of Indiana Jones.  We had waited in
        absolutely NO LINES!!!.

        At this point we decided to cancel our reservation at the 50's
        Prime Cafe and we went to Typhoon Lagoon for the rest of the
        day.  We were amazed at how quickly we saw MGM.  This was much
        faster than when we went in early December.

        We went back to MGM a few more times during our vacation.  We
        ate at the Brown Derby one day for lunch, and another day we
        went to the 50's prime time cafe for Dinner.

        One day we were talking to a Disney employee who advised us to
        re-see the Indiana Jones Stunt Spectacular at night.  He said
        the effects were much better under the lights.  We went back
        one night for the last show and it was spectacular.  We also
        thought that the MGM fireworks show was great!   

        One of our favorite shows was "Here Comes the Muppets".  We
        ended up going to see that show twice.

        /Jim Pappas
    

    
    
    
      Well if your in MK on a holiday and theres a big crowd remember you
    can take a bus back to the were you got off the tram. We did this to
    avoid the Monosnail which even by the time you got into to it was still
    waiting at the station Also the ferry can get backed up too.
    Avoid the monorail unless your staying at a resort.
    I also thought for pure enjoyment with small crowds MGM was great OH
    and don't miss the Indy Stunt Spectacular the best feature IMHO in
    all WDW.
    
    				-=-=-R~C-=-=-

        This is really a reply to 21.52 and 21.53 concerning
        pick-pocketing in WDW.

        When we were in WDW this last trip, we noticed that many
        (most?) people seemed to be wearing these "belly bags".  I was
        somewhat concerned about being pick-pocketed and these looked
        like a good idea.  My wife and I each ended up buying one and
        they worked out really well.

        We bought fairly small ones because we didn't want to carry a
        lot of stuff.  The smaller the better since they are more
        comfortable.  We bought them with a couple of pockets.  I used
        one pocket to hold our annual passports, and all of the
        assorted upgrades(RC,DI,PI,TL).  The other (smaller) pocket
        was for a single credit card, resort ID card, divers license,
        and a little cash (always less than $200).  My wife carried
        the kid's autograph book in her bag as well as some cash and a
        resort ID.

        We kept everything else in a safety deposit box in the hotel. 
        This included most of our cash, airline tickets, wallets,
        credit cards, etc.

        Whenever we would go to the water parks, we would place these
        belly bags in a locker and only carry enough cash for lunch.

        This worked out well for us.  I would recommend getting one if
        you worry about pick-pockets.
    

    I agree with Jim. These belly bags or pouches are real handy. My wife
    and kids had them before we went down but I didn't.
    
    When we got there I bought one in the Emporium. It was my first
    "souvenir" purchase. I kept my tickets, traveler's cheques, cash, keys,
    mini notepad and pens in it.
    
    It takes the worry out of being close (pickpockets).
    
    Mike

    
In preparation for my trip to WDW last month, I read this notes file from
cover to cover.  In doing so, I compiled all of the helpful hints that I
could gather.  I hope that this is helpful.

Press <RETURN> to continue:

    
    
    
    
AIR TRAVEL

*  Order a kid's meal in advance.

*  NEW toys brought out for the trip out.  Hidden until return trip.  Coloring 
   books and new crayons or washable markers make a good plane toy.  

*  Bring sipper cup and some keep-busy snacks

*  Washing windows seems to be a fun game on the plane

*  Be prepared with lots of water/juice/beverage.

*  For ear trouble, give Benalyn when we get to the airport.  For a five-hour 
   trip, give a second dose about an hour before landing.  

*  For takeoff and landing, lollipops.  

*  You can bring a cassette "walkman" with children's tapes




KIDS

*  Bring sand toys for the beaches



MAGIC KINGDOM

*  If you are with Little kids, bring them to the Magic Kingdom when main street 
   opens (i.e., before the remainder of the park opens).  The characters are all 
   in the square, and crowds are light!

*  Ask to ride in front of the monorail.  

*  As soon as you arrive go straight to Hospitality House on Main Street and 
   book for the Diamond Horseshoe Jamboree. (This is the building to the right 
   when entering from under the train station).  Then go to City Hall and  pick 
   up a daily entertainment schedule.

*  Country Bear Vacation Hoedown: Best seen before 11.30.

*  Mickey's Surprise Party:  After the last part of the show there is a queue to 
   meet Mickey. Get near the doors to the left of the giant cake and when they 
   open make for the building on your right. You will be at the head of the 
   queue.

*  Do Fantasyland first thing in the AM.  Sundays are best.

*  Tie a piece of colored yarn to the stroller tp make it easy to spot

*  Do all shopping early to avoid crowds.  Then go under the train station by 
   the front entrance and rent a locker (for, like $1.00) to put it in for the 
   day.

*  Tom Sawyer's Island -- go before dusk since the island closes at that time.  

*  20,000 Leagues Under the Sea ride this one about 8:00 PM.  At night, the ride 
   looks more realistic and the lines are more reasonable.

*  Use the left lane at the Jungle Cruise.  They load two-thirds of every boat 
   from that line.

*  Use the Left lane at the Priates of the Carribean.  This line is physcially 
   shorter than the right lane.

*  Big Thunder Mountain Railroad is best ridden in the dark.

*  Ride Dumbo, first thing upon entering the park.  

*  At Space Mountain, take the left side.  Most people automatically go to the 
   right.

*  It's A Small World:  Boarding probably faster on the left.

*  Other MUSTS:

   	Circlevision 360 - American Journeys

   	Peter Pan's Flight

   	Space Mountain

   	Dreamflight - new Delta attraction




MISC

*  Bring rope to tie down the trunk in case luggage overflows!

*  You can buy your Hoop-Dee-Doo tickets at guest relations in your hotel, or at 
   the TTC any time before the show, as long as you have a reservation.  Do it 
   when you get your passports, and save time.

*  Use the rain as an opportunity to run through some rides that have 60-minute 
   lines all afternoon. 

*  For character breakfasts, bring an autograph book for each child/ adult.  The 
   characters will spend more time with you since they have to stop to sign 
   their names....



MGM STUDIOS

*  Call WDW information (407)824-4321  the  night  before  you  go  for opening 
   and closing times.
    
*  Arrive 45 minutes before the  stated opening time, buy your admision and wait 
   to be admitted to the park.
    
*  Upon admision stop at Guest Relations complex to  the  left  of  the main  
   entrance  and  pick  up  a  schedule of live performances  and special 
   events.

*  See the Indiana Jones Stunt Spectacular at night.  The effects are much 
   better under the lights.  

*  Proceed  to  the end of Hollywood Boulevard to the gate at the right of the 
   Chinese Theater and wait to be admitted to the  Studios  Tour (Backstage  
   Studio Tour).  Have all  children  visit  the  restrooms before the Tour.

*  Following  the tour, visit the Animation Building (Magic  of  Disney 
   Animation)
    
*  If a line  seems  unusually long, ask a Disney-MGM attendant (Cast Member) 
   what the estimated wait is.   If the wait is too long try the same attraction 
   again  while a show at the  Epic  Stunt Theater is in progress or while a 
   parade  or  some special event is  going  on.  All of these activities serve 
   to draw people away from the lines
        
*  Try the show at the Sound Effects Stage (Monster Sound Show).
    
*  Take  in a performance at the Disney Television Theather  (Superstar 
   Television).
    
*  Ride the Great Movie Ride.  You must choose a "side" at the "turnstiles" at 
   the entrance to the Chinese Theater (the turnstiles are actually some sort of 
   sensing device).  The left side ends up in the rear vehicle which gets the 
   ganster scene.  The right side ends up in the front vehicle with the western 
   scene.
    
*  See the Show at the Epic Stunt Theather.  If one is not scheduled for a 
   while, grab a bite or tour Hollywood Boulevard until showtime.
   
*  Enjoy  special  events  and  entertainments  as  per    your   daily 
   entertainment schedule.

*  Magic Journey's - 3-D show.  Catch it during the hottest part of the day to 
   cool off.

*  For Teen-age Mutant Ninga Turtle fans, walk down Mickey Avenue from the 
   rest/stop at the end of Part one of the Back Lot tour (this is the way to get 
   back to the main part of MGM without taking the walking tour!) at 11:00.  The 
   TMNT came around the corner in their car.  There was NO ONE on the street 
   except us and then and I had a perfect view to take a picture. 


PLEASURE ISLAND

*  Eat at Portobello Yacht Club.  Great Italian food.


EPCOT

*  Start at the back of the park and work your way forward.  Press on/past/under 
   the geosphere and continue walking toward the lake in the center of the 
   complex.  There, board the (I think it's) blue boat which will take you 
   across the lake to the Italy pavilion in the World Showcase.

*  Explore the various "countries" represented in the World Showcase in a 
   counterclockwise direction.  By the time you wind up back at the entrance the 
   lines will be in much better shape.

*  Use the left line for Body Wars.  It goes much faster.

*  Watch Illuminations from dead center as you enter World Showcase from Future 
   world.  The American pavillion is directly across the lagoon.  This is by far 
   the best place to view the show.      I think a good alternative is the 
   elevated walkway around the Japanese building.  It's 20 feet above the ground 
   and the end faces the lagoon with a pretty good view.  But you have to stand.

*  Try to get a reservation at the Biergarten in the Germany pavilion.  The food 
   is excellent.  The entertainment is a lot of fun. It's like being in a real 
   outdoor German beer garden. Recommended: the Akershaus in the Norway Pavilion 
   for some excellent food.  All the smoked salmon and venison ragout you can 
   eat (and much more) for $15 for adults and $6 for the kids. And a beautiful 
   setting.


FORT WILDERNESS

*  Take the launch if going to MK, blue flag bus to Ticket and Transportation 
   center to get the Monorail to EPCOT, and the black/yellow flag to MGM.  The 
   brown flag bus or tram (FW local service) takes you to the right place to 
   catch the above.

*  Trailer # 1-15 and 50+ make for a lot shorter walks to the bus stops. The 
   2500 or 2600 loop are the closest to the FW pool.  If they give you a choice 
   of a low or high numbered trailer take a high because you are less likely to 
   have car headlights shining in your windows.



MISCELLANEOUS THINGS TO DO WITH KIDS

*  Go for a walk around the promenade at the Caribbean Beach Resort.  The walk 
   takes some time plus there's a playground on an island near Old Port Royale.  
   
*  Try the playground at the Contemporary Resort and/or go inside to check out 
   the sites.  Just riding the escalators can be fun for little ones. You can 
   also go up to the top floor of the Contemporary to the observation deck and 
   look at the Magic Kingdom.  Watch the guy play the piano - it's made of a 
   clear material so you can see how it works.  You could also have dinner at 
   the Character Cafe.  You don't need reservations.  The buffet is great.

    I know this  topic is rather old, but it still has some timely value in
    it, and I figured I try and spark it up a little.
    
    My # 1 tip to  give  anyone who has never been to WDW and was wondering
    what there was to do, Tips/Hints on what to see/avoid etc, is to do the
    following,
    
        'Go  to  your  nearest  bookstore and buy  the  latest  edition  of
        Birnbaum  and/or The Unofficial Guide, read them at  your  leisure,
        mark up the section of interest and above all don't forget to bring
        it with you.  (I then tend to go on and on with tips found in these
        guide if they want to listen ;^)).  Then go on and read Disney.Note
        (if DECie) and extrapolate the unique information.'
    

    Now the reason  for  recommending  the  Guidebooks  vs extracting large
    amount of notes from  Disney.Note  
    
        A wealth of information at your finger tips  in  a  well  organized
        manner  (probably  75%  of  Disney.Note is in the Guidebooks in one
        form or another, and rather  disorganized) that is also packaged in
        a  manner  to  be brought with  you  (try  doing  that  with  notes
        extracts)

        If I was  to  create a document with all my knowledge of tips/hints
        on what to do/avoid based on  my past experiences and acquaintances
        and properly  categorized  to  be  placed  here in Disney.Note, I'd
        probably have a  document  approaching  the  size  of  one  of  the
        Guidebooks above.    And why re-invent the wheel so to speak, since
        probably most of my  Tips/Hints,  are in the guidebooks anyway, the
        only diference would be the way I attack the Parks, (my secret ;^))
        
    Now your probably saying  why  is  one of the Moderators of Disney.Note
    advocating the Guidebooks vs Disney.Note?   The reason for this is that
    even though this Great notefile exist,  and  has  a  wealth of valuable
    information, tips/hints etc, a major portion of  this  file  deals with
    what  already  exist  in  the  above 2 Guidebooks as  mentioned  above.
    However Disney.Note is not without it own merits 
    
        It's timeliness - Guidebooks tend to get out of date, stale data

        Personal experiences - Guidebooks are written like most restaurants
           cook their food - to appeal to the masses, and you being a DECie
           have another resource ;^)

        Trip Reports - Allows you to remember your last  trip/Fantasize  of
           upcoming one. (or like some Moderators here, Annual ones ;^))

        Trivia in general

        Overall Disney Company in General, Movies, Stores etc.

    Plus the fact that not everyone I  know that has asked me of my opinion
    of WDW is a DECie and has access to Disney.Note.

    Reasons for getting Birnbaum VS Unofficial.  
    
        Birnbaum  is  my  preference,  primarily  because of the following,
        Pictures (I  like  to  be  able  to  visualize  adds to the magic),
        detailed  descriptions  of    the    Parks,   Better/more  detailed
        descriptions  of  the  Resort   Hotels,  Restaurants,  Recreational
        activities, Shops, Maps etc than  that  of  the  Unofficial  Guide.
        Tips on photos, Planning, traveling with Kids etc.
    
        Unofficial Guide, even though it lacks  pictures  and  the  details
        mention  above,  it  does  have  it merits,  primarily  the  rating
        (missing  from  Birnbaum)/description  of the Parks attractions and
        better schedules on visiting the parks, although I've used Birnbaum
        in the past and found them extremely useful.
    

    Now in reference to my previous reply.
    
    If you  feel  you  must  research  the conference and extract pertinent
    information to be  brought  along  with  you  on  your Journey you have
    several commands available to you in Notes which will help you do this.
    If you have the time you can use notes as follows
    
    Use topic 60 and it  replies  to find those topic based on the keywords
    your  interested  and  extract those topic  as  follows  by  doing  the
    following command
    
        EXTRACT DISNEY.TXT 120.*
    
    this will extract topic 120 and all its  replies to the file DISNEY.TXT
    in your current directory.  Now if you can't find what your looking for
    based  on  Keywords  don't  fret  there  another  method  by doing  the
    following
    
        SEARCH "the text string your looking for in quotes"
        EXTRACT DISNEY.TXT
        SEARCH
        EXTRACT DISNEY.TXT/APPEND

    this will  search  the conference for the occurrence of the text string
    you supply, once found display that note on the screen, you can then do
    the extract command to  save  it  to  a file, then if you still wish to
    search for the next occurrence  of  that  test  string just type SEARCH
    again and do EXTRACT.TXT/APPEND to append it if found to the same file.
    Once  notes  say no more, then just  change  the  search  criteria  and
    continue.
    
    However the  above  sequence  can be very time consuming, and there are
    better ways to  do  this,  if you already have one of the various Batch
    utilities available such as  AVN  (DCL)  or  RNU (executable version of
    AVN), PAN (executable), and there are many others, you can  use  one of
    these  to  set up your search criteria and submit them to  batch,  when
    done you'll receive a mail message upon completion.
    
    My favorite is RNU for normal batch  notes  extraction  (that  is how I
    keep  up with the conferences I'm interested, and read the extract when
    I'm  free).   In RNU you can do a Remote Search on a  given  conference
    based on the following criteria

        search on TEXT return DIRECTORY
        search on TEXT return TEXT
        search on AUTHOR return DIRECTORY
        search on AUTHOR return TEXT    

    RNU   is  available  at  EISNOW::RNU_KITS:RNU.EXE,  and  has  it's  own
    notesfile at XCELR8::RNU.  RNU is rather easy to setup  and use.

    Don't hesitate to jot down some notes in Birnbaum. Even though it
    contains a ton of info some info may be outdated. That is where this
    conference comes in handy.
    
    If you read something in here which seems important to you then check
    it out in Birnbaum. If necessary write down in the appropriate pages
    any information you feel you need to include in the book.
    
    Birnbaum still had Monte Cristo sandwiches listed for 1990 but they
    weren't there when I was there. Another example is the return of the
    Country Bear Jamboree (Hip Hip!) this Spring. Is that in Birnbaum? I
    haven't checked yet.
    
    Claude's right! Use Birnbaum but supplement it with tidbits from here.
    Don't find yerself scratching yer head and saying, "Now what was it
    that Jim Pappas said that gets you selected in an audience
    participation attracttion?"
    
    Mike

    Rep to <<< Note 97.25 by SALEM::BERUBE_C "Good Morning WDW!, in 79 days" >>>

>    Reasons for getting Birnbaum VS Unofficial.  

    I forgot  to  add, that Birnbaum is geared toward those staying on site
    (hence the better  detail  on  what  to  do  beside visiting the 3 main
    parks), and the Unofficial Guide is geared to the General masses wether
    staying on site or not.

    Here are some tidbits of info from the latest Kissimmee-St. Cloud
    Convention & Visitor's Bureau Guidebook received last week by yours
    truly:
    
    Sea World Price $26.95 for adults and $22.95 for kids (3-9)
    Universal Studios is now $31.00 for adults and $25.00 for kids.
    Medieval Times is now $28.00 for adults and $20.00 for kids (3-12).
    
    Oh yeah....you can now go Bungee jumping in Orlando....oh boy.
    
    They are now saying that Sundays and Fridays are the least crowded days
    for any of the WDW theme parks and Monday, Tuesday, and Wednesday are
    the most busy days of the week.
    
    This book is packed with info and I recommend that anyone going down
    for more than a week should get one. The address is located in note
    179.
    
    Mike

    Back in October I helped a friend plan his first family WDW vacation.
    One suggestion I had made was for him to book the Hoop especially on
    his wife's birthday. I told him to book as soon as he secured his
    on-site reservation. unfortunately, like so many other first-timers
    he put it off not taking my urging seriously to book ASAP. He is going
    in less than 10 days and decided to book. He had to settle for the last
    show of the evening (I suggested the early show) and said to me, "I
    should have listened to you!"
    
    Are you first-timers listening?

               Walt Disney World - The Overlooked Attractions

            Version 1.2 - June 25, 1995 - Compiled by Eric Simon

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

  1. Take the boat from Pleasure Island to Port Orleans on the Sassagoula
     River. Great view of the Treehouse Villas. If possible, do it on a
     chilly evening with your significant other (SO). Very romantic. Price:
     free to WDW resort guests.

  2. Tea at the Rose and Crown Pub (in UK in Epcot). "It's usually at 3:30
     or 4:00. There's only one seating, and it only seats 20 people or so,
     so you need to make advance reservations early." Price: Epcot
     admission required, plus price of refreshments.

  3. For the kids: the petting zoo at Fort Wilderness (just south of
     Pioneer Hall). Take boat or bus to Fort Wilderness. Price: free to WDW
     resort guests.

  4. Be sure to stop and see the Dancing Fountain shows at Epcot, at the
     Innoventions Fountain. There are four different shows:
     -On the hour: music from "The Rescuers Down Under"
     -On the quarter (11:15, 12:15, etc.): music from "The Rocketeer"
     -On the half hour (11:30, 12:30, etc.): Mickey-related music
     -On quarter to (11:45, 12:45, etc.): music from "Surprise in the
     Skies"

     Good place to watch the show: from the middle of the "EPCOT" logo
     embedded in the cement to the south of the fountain (toward World
     Showcase). From there, the huge speakers installed for
     "Splashtacular!" give you the best sound. Also, Spaceship Earth makes
     a great backdrop for all the shows.

     At night, lighting effects change the shows dramatically. After
     IllumiNations, watch the show from the Fountain View Cafe. Price:
     Epcot admission required.

  5. Tour the WDW resorts/ride the monorails. Best to do this mid-day, as
     WDW transportation will probably be less crowded. Price: free to WDW
     resort guests (food items are extra, of course). The following resorts
     are recommended:

     Grand Floridian Resort: very nice white sand beach; listen to
     piano/jazz band/whatever in lobby (call in advance for musician
     schedule). Tea and miniature sandwiches (served on beautiful china)
     are served in the afternoon at the Garden View Lounge.

     Wilderness Lodge Resort: see Disney's version of Old Faithful (erupts
     every half-hour); "check out the Pacific Northwest Indian art at the
     gift shop; the back pool area has to be seen to be believed. Sit in
     the rows of rocking chairs in front of a huge stone fireplace (where
     Chip and Dale often visit). At 8:00 PM, an animal handler from
     Discovery Island will be in the lobby with two animals. The handler
     will tell the kids (big and small) all about the animals, and may
     allow the kids to pet the animals. Recommend that you verify the time
     with the Wilderness Lodge front desk."

     Port Orleans Resort: try the beignets, a pastry dish available at the
     bakery.

     Dixie Landings Resort: "the food court of Dixie Landings is an
     enormous cotton mill. The barbecue sub wasn't bad." Also, check out
     Ol' Man Island, a combination playground/swimming area.

     Yacht and Beach Club Resorts: get an ice-cream cone or a giant
     milkshake from Beaches and Cream stand; musicians in lobby at select
     times (call Disney Information Services for info).

     All-Star Resorts: bizarre, oversize theming (giant sports/music equip-
     ment); also character statues you can get photos with.

     Swan Resort: "Go at night. The inside of the Swan has an enormous
     balloon canopy ceiling you should see."

     Dolphin Resort: "You can watch the fireworks outside MGM while lying
     in the hammocks outside the Dolphin. Never crowded."

  6. Walk the carriage path from Port Orleans to Dixie Landings. Do this in
     the evening with your SO.

  7. For the nature lover: Discovery Island, a Disney zoological park
     located in the center of Bay Lake. "A wonderful nature park,
     accessible only by boat. There is a walking trail throughout the
     island, a bird aviary, and educational lectures/shows." Not for the
     non-outdoorsy type. This is not a "typical" Disney park - it is very
     low key. Price: requires separate admission or included as part of
     Park Hopper pass.

  8. Take the boat ride from the Contemporary Resort to Fort Wilderness
     across Bay Lake. Will also stop at Discovery Island during the
     daytime. If possible, do this at night with your SO. Very romantic.
     Price: free to WDW resort guests.

  9. Take a boat from the Yacht Club to Epcot for a viewing of
     Illuminations. "To make reservations, call the Beach Club at (407)
     934-8000 and ask for extension 6112." The boat is named the
     Breathless, after Breathless Mahoney from Dick Tracy. Boat can
     accomodate up to 7 people. Boat departs at about 8:40 PM.
     You can also charter the "Breathless" throughout the day for half-hour
     daytime cruises. You may want to tip the captain, although there are
     no "hints" that this is expected.
     Price: $75 for evening cruise, $50 for afternoon cruise. Prices are
     per cruise, not per person. Cruises are free with the Food'N'Fun card.
     Pay ahead of time at the Yacht Club Marina. Make reservations as early
     as you can, because there is only one evening fireworks cruise.

 10. "One very pleasant surprise that I did not know about was the little
     park in the United Kingdom pavilion at Epcot. It's not very big, but I
     sure felt as if I was on Cherry Tree Lane. The Mary Poppins inspired
     topiary certainly helped. Just follow the lane that leads away from
     the water- front and the park is just around the corner." Price: Epcot
     admission required.

 11. "On a steamy day (early in the morning), take a walk through the cool
     mists of the woods at Fort Wilderness." Price: free to WDW resort
     guests.

 12. "Drink a glass of sweet wine at Germany (Epcot) and keep the glass."
     Price: Epcot admission required, plus the wine!

 13. For the kids: "let him wear his/her swimming suit to the Disney
     Village Marketplace and s/he will love to play in the fountains that
     spray water." Great chance for Mom and Dad to catch a break. Price:
     free.

 14. Visit the Disney Village Marketplace. BIG Disney store (The Disney
     Character Shop), glass stores, toy store, clothes stores. Closest
     decent restaurant is The Fireworks Factory, located outside Pleasure
     Island. Price: free (well, unless you actually buy something).

 15. Go to Fort Wilderness for the campfire/sing-along. A Disney classic
     movie follows the sing-along. Chip and Dale usually make an
     appearance. Movie begins at sundown. The Fort Wilderness staff will
     provide a campfire; bring your marshmallows, hot dogs and sticks if
     you have them. If not, marshmallows and sticks are available for
     purchase.
     The movie shown is different each night of the week. You might be able
     to catch "Song of the South" here. Price: free to all WDW resort
     guests.
     Note: the campfire/sing-along is located in the middle of the Fort
     Wilderness campground (about a 15-minute walk from Pioneer Hall). If
     you do not wish to walk, you will have to catch a bus which is on the
     internal Fort Wilderness route (you can catch this bus at the Pioneer
     Hall busstop). Get off at the Meadowlands Trading Post stop. If the
     campground is crowded, the campfire/sing-along may also be crowded.
     :-(

 16. Go to the theatre in the Contemporary for a free Disney classic movie.
     Note: you may be able to see "Song of the South" here. Theatre is
     located at the rear of the arcade behind the front desk. Price: free
     to all WDW resort guests.

 17. See the Electrical Water Pageant Parade. This show can be seen at the
     Fort Wilderness Beach, behind the Contemporary Resort, from the
     Polynesian Resort Beach, and from the Grand Floridian Beach. The show
     lasts about ten minutes. A chain of parade floats will entertain you
     with lights and music from the water. Show time varies slightly from
     resort to resort (anywhere from 9:30 PM to 10:30 PM). Call the resort
     for schedule. Price: free to all WDW resort guests.

 18. For the coffee afficianado: "try the little coffee bar in the lobby of
     the Wilderness Lodge. Stop by and ask what the current specialty is.
     Everything we tried was wonderful!" Hot chocolate at this bar is also
     recommended.

 19. "Ride up front with the driver on the monorails. As long as no one
     else is waiting, and they aren't too busy, if you ask the Cast
     Members, they will usually let you do it. It's a great view,
     especially at sunset." If you decide to do this, it is best to try for
     an off-peak time. The Cast Members will usually be more accomodating
     when things are quieter (try to avoid morning and evening rush
     periods). If you are a WDW resort guest, schedule this for a day when
     you are not going to the parks. Price: free.

 20. For the beer lover: "At the Contemporary Resort they have Monorail
     Ale! I make it a point on any trip to Disney to stop at the
     Contemporary Resort's Outer Rim Lounge and enjoy this fine honey wheat
     ale that is brewed in Orlando. The view of Bay Lake is also quite
     nice."

     At Epcot's World Showcase: Guinness, Harp, and Bass on tap at the Rose
     and Crown in the UK pavillion. Becks and Becks Dark in Germany. Other
     countries also have other country-specific brews in bottles: Mexico
     (Dos Equis), Japan (Sapporo), Italy and France.

     Others:

     Port Orleans/Dixie Landings: Blackened Voodoo Lager Wilderness Lodge
     Resort: Lodgehouse Ale Disney/MGM Studios: Sierra Nevada Pale Ale (at
     most restaurants)

 21. "Try sitting in the Top of the World lounge at the Contemporary Resort
     during the Magic Kingdom fireworks (they pipe in the music and the
     view is great) and then stroll outside on one of the balconies and
     watch the Electrical Water Pageant." Price: free to all WDW resort
     guests.

 22. "There is a nice, self-guided nature walk in the woods near Fort
     Wilderness. The trail begins at the far east end of the beach on Bay
     Lake (the end farthest from River Country). This trail is normally
     VERY private and can be nice for a romantic walk in the woods. Best
     seen during daytime as there are no lights and some of the trail
     passes through swampy areas, making misstepping off the trail somewhat
     unpleasant." Price: free to all WDW resort guests and to River Country
     guests.

 23. "The best stop in Epcot: the Matsu-No-Ma Lounge. At the very back end
     of the park, you've walked a long way to get to Japan. On the first
     floor is a department store. Now ascend the steps to the second floor,
     and enter the Matsu-No-Ma Lounge. Here you can sit in front of large
     picture windows and watch the crowds hurry by on the pavement below.
     You can look out over the lagoon, watching the workers prepare for
     that night's showing of Illuminations. Meanwhile, you can relax,
     sipping hot sake." Price: Epcot admission required, plus food items.

 24. "Eat/Drink/Shop around the world. Pick something you like to do, and
     then try to do it in every country of Epcot. For example, buy a
     t-shirt, drink a beer, or find a water fountain.
     You should be able to complete this in one day's visit. If you
     succeed, try to repeat the task in every Land of the Magic Kingdom, or
     in every hotel in WDW."
     Price: admission to theme park, plus food/gift items. OK, if you're
     going to "shop around the world", this could get a little pricey. But
     think of the collection you'll have! You could get a whole new
     wardrobe this way. :-) And if you manage to do something in every WDW
     hotel, you'll have really accomplished something (like blistered
     feet).
     A cheaper alternative: take a camera and a friend, and have your
     picture taken in every hotel in WDW (or every land in Epcot or Magic
     Kingdom). When you get your pictures developed, try to convince your
     friends that you went around the world in 8 days.

 25. Watch Illuminations after a rain. "For some reason, everybody seems to
     leave the parks if a little rain appears, especially late in the day.
     If you just stick it out, you can secure a great spot to watch
     Illumina- tions with no waiting required." Price: Epcot admission
     required.

 26. Take the long way out of Epcot/Magic Kingdom.

     "At Epcot: after Illuminations ends, as everyone scurries to the
     exits, wait to let the crowds die down, and then take a leisurely
     stroll around the lagoon. You'll have a nice quiet time with minimal
     people, and a chance to look at the skies above. The Disney buses or
     your car will be there whenever you get out, and security won't start
     asking you to leave for about a half hour."

     "In the Magic Kingdom: Main Street doesn't close for a half hour after
     the rest of the park. So while other folks fight the crowds in the
     parking lot, stop off for ice cream or a pastry. You can even sit
     while you eat."

     Price: theme park admission required.

 27. See Christmas at the hotels. "During the holidays (from Thanksgiving
     through New Year's Eve), you'll find interesting decorations in every
     hotel lobby. Plus they may have free entertainment, or free refresh-
     ments, if you hit the right time of day."

     Price: free to all WDW resort guests.

 28. "Rent one of the boats (pontoon, etc.) from Dixie Landings or Port
     Orleans and cruise the canals to the shopping village. Or go to one of
     the resorts by the Magic Kingdom and rent a boat there to cruise Bay
     Lake and the Seven Seas Lagoon. Very relaxing and enjoyable."

     Price: varies, depending on which boat you rent. Boat rentals are free
     with the Food'N'Fun card. WDW/public transportation between all the
     WDW resorts is free to all WDW resort guests.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
A note on the WDW transportation system: if you are registered as a guest
at a WDW resort, you are entitled to unlimited free use of the WDW resort
transportation system for the duration of your stay. Cast members may or
may not check your resort ID. However, they are checking to see if you are
a WDW resort guest, NOT to see which resort you are staying at. A guest at
Fort Wilderness may ride the Port Orleans boat, and vice-versa.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Many thanks to all the fine people from rec.arts.disney, and specifically
the following people who contributed to this list:

  1. From Suzy Davenport, suzyd@subpop.com, David C. Barber,
     dbarber@crash.cts.com
  2. From Ethan Solomita, ethan@news.cs.columbia.edu
  3. From Sue Nurczyk, nurczyk@lds.loral.com
  4. From Xris Albers, xris@magicnet.net, DocWombat, docwombat@aol.com
  5. From Cosmik, cosmik@aol.com, Charles P. Buchanan,
     dems181@uabdpo.dpo.uab.edu, Ben Wern, bwern@jax.jaxnet.com, Georgia
     Jones, gt3579b@prism.gatech.edu, Bozena, sakowsk@hsdvxa.hsd.utc.com,
     Patti Gallagher, GXVW75A@prodigy.co, Bill Ellett, bill@dra.com
  6. From Charles P. Buchanan, dems181@uabdpo.dpo.uab.edu
  7. From Charles P. Buchanan, dems181@uabdpo.dpo.uab.edu,
     camelot@isscorp.com
  8. From Eric T. Simon, sz9njm@sun126.hqs.mid.gmeds.com
  9. From Ethan Solomita, ethan@news.cs.columbia.edu, Werner W. Weiss,
     werner@mcs.com
 10. From Phil Wright, paw@tdis.icpsr.umich.edu
 11. From BZall, bzall@aol.com
 12. From David C. Barber, dbarber@crash.cts.com
 13. From Michele Petrey
 14. From Georgia Jones, gt3579b@prism.gatech.edu
 15. From Eric T. Simon, sz9njm@sun126.hqs.mid.gmeds.com
 16. From Eric T. Simon, sz9njm@sun126.hqs.mid.gmeds.com
 17. From Georgia Jones, gt3579b@prism.gatech.edu
 18. From Patti Gallagher, GXVW75A@prodigy.com
 19. From Robert A. Yetman, boby@pixi.com
 20. From Chris Loris, cloris.33.2FD5E93E@harris.com, John Donat,
     johnd@zephyr.Central.Sun.com, Rich Pearl, richpearl@aol.com, Dan
     Roman, danno@intac.com
 21. From Bozena, sakowsk@hsdvxa.hsd.utc.com
 22. From Randy Berbaum, rberbaum@prairienet.org
 23. From Bill Ellett, bill@dra.com
 24. From Bill Ellett, bill@dra.com
 25. From Bill Ellett, bill@dra.com
 26. From Bill Ellett, bill@dra.com
 27. From Bill Ellett, bill@dra.com
 28. From Ron Lancaster, rlancaster@cs.bgsu.edu

Special thanks to Don Bertino, for graciously providing an ftp location for
this document!
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

This list is available via e-mail from me at:
     sz9njm@sun126.hqs.mid.gmeds.com
     (this is not a server, so it may take me a while to reply)

This list is available via ftp from:
     ftp.netcom.com /pub/be/bertino/docs/WDW.overlooked.attractions

This list is availale via WWW at:
     http://www.america.com/~dcop/tudlp/unseen.html

Please e-mail corrections/additions to:
     Eric T. Simon

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Resort and attraction names are trademarks of The Walt Disney Company, all
rights reserved by The Walt Disney Company. This listing is presented for
informational purposes only. This listing is not endorsed by nor provided
by the Walt Disney Company, and does not imply any obligation (contractual
or otherwise) of the Walt Disney Company. This listing is subject to change
without notice.

    Recent visitors have told me that some castmembers have suggested that
    if you are staying on the property you may find that the early day
    parks may be more crowded in the morning than the non-early day parks.
    
    That is, if EPCOT's early day (for resort guests) is Wednesday, you're
    better off going to TMK or MGM on that day....'cause it would be less
    crowded in the morning.
    
    It makes sense...each year as more resorts open the additional on the
    property rooms adds large numbers to the property guests who look to
    take advantage on these early days.
    
    Boardwalk opens in July.
    
    Mike

>    Recent visitors have told me that some castmembers have suggested that
>    if you are staying on the property you may find that the early day
>    parks may be more crowded in the morning than the non-early day parks.
>    
>    That is, if EPCOT's early day (for resort guests) is Wednesday, you're
>    better off going to TMK or MGM on that day....'cause it would be less
>    crowded in the morning.

This is also what The Unofficial Guide ('95 and '96 editions, anyway) generally
recommends.

-- Nina

    > That is, if EPCOT's early day (for resort guests) is Wednesday, you're
    > better off going to TMK or MGM on that day....'cause it would be less
    > crowded in the morning.
    
    We're just back from there, and we used this strategy every day except
    for one (which was more a scheduling accident than anything else).  It
    worked great, as far as we can tell.  I'd highly recommend it!
    
    
    > Boardwalk opens in July.
    
    And it looks nice, too, at least from the Beach Club vantage point.
    We weren't staying at the Beach Club, we were just doing the old
    "park at the Beach Club and walk to Epcot" trick.  There were plenty
    of empty spaces the week before Memorial Day weekend, and we were
    staying elsewhere onsite anyway, so it wasn't too sneaky.
    
    Chris

    It looks like WDW need to address a revamping of the transportation
    system. I've been hearing from a lot of people lately regarding how
    much difficulty they had moving around the WDW resort using the
    transportation system. Many people found themselves ending up at
    the TTC...not the best place to be down there.
    
    Remember Kathy Jette's final words....RENT AND USE A CAR!
    
    That's the tip for the day.
    
    Mike

    I hate to disagree, but we only used the rented car to leave
    Disney property.  The transportation system worked just fine for us.
    We stayed at ASM and Wilderness lodge.  we went all over the place.
    This was just last Febuary.
    Perhaps the people having difficulties don't know how to use the
    system?
    
    I have written many letters to WDW regarding the use of diesel busses
    within the campground.  Doesn't fit.  smelly loud.
    ed
    

    Ed,
    
    Some first timers may not realize how difficult or time consuming it is
    to go from let's say the All-Star Resorts to Pioneer Hall (for Hoop Dee
    Doo).
    
    My time is precious down there and I prefer using a car over the
    busses. It's faster, more convenient, and more efficient.
    
    Time of the year could also play a factor in the Transportation System
    efficiency.
    
    I DO agree that the problem may stem from visitor's ignorance as to how
    the system works...that can be a big problem.
    
    Mike

    We rented a car and would never think of getting on one of their
    buses.  It has to be faster to take your own car.  The only place
    where I could see a bus might be faster is from The Magic Kingdom.
    What we did every time we went there was to drive to the Contemporary,
    park near the walkway that leads to TMK, and walk the 5 minutes to the
    gate (double bonus because that's where our brick is!).  Late at night, 
    after the parade/fireworks, I would guess that we beat the buses back 
    to CBR by at least 30 minutes.  We'd be back at the hotel, kids tucked 
    in, and sitting on our "bench" having a cold one when the buses would 
    start coming in (every two minutes it seemed).
    
    Maybe this is a "peak" season thing?
    
    Karen
    
    

    I'll also put in a vote for a rental car here.  Even though we'd
    stayed at the Polynesian, the monorail was useful only for the Magic
    Kingdom (and only marginally at that, which I'll describe in more
    detail if I ever get time to write a trip report).
    
    EPCOT is reachable by monorail, but you have to "switch trains" at the
    TTC and it takes a while to get from one to the other, not even
    counting wait times.  It was much faster to drive to EPCOT, especially
    using the Beach Club parking trick, which was easy to do in mid-May and
    didn't take any spaces away from BC guests.
    
    And of course, there is no monorail access to Disney/MGM.  Again, in
    mid-May, it was very fast to drive there.  Parking was no problem, and
    the tram to the main gate was very fast with essentially no wait.
    
    The car was also critical for things like Goodings trips, and of course
    to go offsite to Sea World, Universal, Kennedy Space Center, and so on.
    In addition, it's just nice to know that you can go anywhere you want
    at anytime, without being dependent on other transportation that you
    don't have much control over.
    
    The time that I really needed the monorail to be fast, for a quick
    bounce-trip from TMK-->Poly-->Contemp, it was agonizing, about 45
    minutes total, whilst the rest of the family was waiting for me at
    the Chef Mickey character dinner...
    
    Chris

    Definately a car is a must for us.  I like to go when I'm ready.  It
    makes it easier to zip between parks during the day.  Also, it is not
    convenient to go from resort to resort.  To take the bus over to the GF
    from the Beach Club there was no direct bus.  So depending on what time
    of year you're there it could take you 45-mins to an hour when by car
    its 15 minutes.
    
    Julie
    

    I'll conceed that perhaps it's only me that isn't in a rush.
    sure you can go between resorts/ect by car, perhaps faster,
    but I see it as not haveing the hassle of driving, that the kids can
    wander without worry, and something I can do in a bus that I can't if
    I drive:  talk with a cast member, talk with other guests.
    I'm a people watcher and its hard to do in a private car.
    
    something to remember as the 25th anniversary approaches.  I was there,
    did it during the first few months.  4-6 hour in line wait per
    attraction.  and I see people complain on a 15min wait today.
    
    If you were lucky, you could do 3-4 attractions in a FULL day.
    
    ed
    

    	Would you suggest taking a car to Blizzard Beach and Typoon Lagoon
    rather than the buses?

  	I mentioned in my recent trip report that I am on
        the fence as to whether or not I'd rent a car on
        a return trip. You really need to assess your plans
        to determine whether a car is for you. Your personal
        preference on how to spend your time is also a factor.

        Making stops from/to Orlando airport, having off-site trips
        planned (Seaworld, etc), and planning to do a good amount of 
        resort to resort travel are all good reasons for renting a car.

        From my non-peak season perspective, if most of your travel 
        is resort to theme parks, and you have no off site trips planned,  
        Disney transportation appeared more than adequate. You need to
        be aware of the schedules. When we were there, buses ran every 
        20 minutes. I planned around these 20 minute increments and we had 
        no problems getting around.

        However, in peak season when the crowds multiply, I can see a 
        strain being put on the system.  I would assume they compensate
        to some degree. But, having the flexibility of alternate 
        transportation (rental) would not be a bad idea.

        Another factor is personality. Some people like to 
        move quickly from point A to point B, not wanting to
        waste a minute. Other folks opt for a more leisurely
        pace, and do not mind waiting a few minutes for a bus or
        monorail car. For example, I enjoyed traveling from MK
        to EP via the monorail. I was not really concerned that
        it may have taken a few extra minutes. To others, those
        few extra minutes are important. Different strokes.
        
        Phil        
        


       
        

Several people who opt for cars have mentioned that they park at the
Contemporary when visiting TMK and they park at Y&BC when visiting Epcot
(if they are on-site guests).  I plan on doing this when we go down next
year, but I'm not familiar with the layout of the resorts.  Could someone
give me more precise directions?  Like, where exactly at the Contemporary
would one park if going to TMK?  And whereabouts at the Y&BC would one park
if going to Epcot?  (Or is it so obvious when you are there that I shouldn't
even worry about it?)

Thanks,

- Lori

    For TMK drive to the Contemporary Hotel and park in the lot near the
    left wing. The lot closest to Space Mountain is for cast members. Park
    across the street from that lot.
    
    Mike

    
    last time I was there the parking at the Contemporary that was closest
    to MK was for the north wing.  Unfortunately there was a lot of
    construction going on and the parking lot was usually 100% full.
    If you have to park at the south wing, it's a pretty good hike to
    MK.  If you want real service, have your car valet parked at
    the Contemp.....then you don't have to search for a space.  There
    is a sort of guard shack on the walkway to MK, and I've heard 
    rumors that they check for resort id.....I've never seen that happen,
    but I always go in the off-season.  
    
    You might want to also know they have started putting up guard shacks at 
    certain resort hotel entrances.  The last time we went (off season) to YBC 
    we told the guard we had dinner reservations at the beach club and they 
    passed us right on through without really checking.  Park as close to the 
    Beach club resort entrance as you can get, then walk right through the 
    resort to the lake and head left.   If you are going to futureworld, 
    forget this, it's not faster.   If you just wanted to go to World Showcase 
    and eat something, than the Beach club parking lot is the way to go.    
                                           
    
               
    

    Well the guard at TMK shack when we went turned several people away.
    
    If you are a resort guest you have a much easier time parking in the 
    resort hotel parking lots.
    
    Yet another plus for staying on the property, erh Ed?
    
    Mike

    When we were @ WDW April '94/95 the guard checked out resort IDs everytime
    we went in TMK entrance.  This past February we were never asked to
    show an ID.  So maybe it depends on the time of year you go.
    
    Julie
    

We were at WDW from July 23 thru Aug 02 (trip report in progress).

We used the buses and had no problems. We never rode a full bus and
the most we ever had to wait was about 10 minutes. We've used cars
before too and I can tell you that the buses are much more convenient
(we stayed at the Old Key West Resort).

The only exception is if you want to travel from your hotel to
another hotel or to Fort Wilderness, etc. Then you need to make
a connection at the TTC or The Shopping Village.