Conference koolit::disney

    Hi Len, map should be on the way monday.
    
    Don't forget the campfire singalone with Chip and Dale
    er while we're on the subject, how do you tell chip from dale?
    
    Chip has the black nose, Dale has the red nose.  Important to remember!
    
    They have excellent babysitting services, so don't worry.  Our son
    took his first tour at nine months.  By all means take at least
    one night off for you and your wife alone.
    
    The kids haven't cared for Epcot.  In the countries, not an awuful
    lot for them to do if your doing only looking at the shops.
    
    stuff some fruit in a bag so they can munch when they're hungry.
    Sence you staying at FW, go back and let them have an afternoon
    nap if they're used to haveing a nap.  
    Don't forget the petting zoo.  and the hay ride.  bring sand toys
    for the beach.
    
    ed
    
    

>   While we're on the subject, how do you tell chip from dale?
    
    That was an easy question for the father of identical twins!  A
    harder question around our house is how do you tell Harry from Noah.
    
    BTW, one of the chipmunks has one tooth while the other has two.

    Chip has one tooth.  Just put them in alphabetical order and count.
    
    If you will be there on Sunday, see Fantasyland then.  I went there
    last October and discovered that the guide books were correct. 
    I got there so I could take the first boat over (the monorail was
    down for repairs).  I think I was able to hit four or five rides
    during the first hour.  It was basically walk right in.  By 11
    lines had started to form.

    I just got back from WDW and took my 1 and 5 year old.  I had a
    pretty easy time of it, but I did go there with the idea that we
    would take everything S L O W L Y.  We got up early and got to the
    parks at opening or shortly after and rented our stroller (tie a
    piece of red yarn to it, easy to spot when coming out of an attraction
    and there are 100 strollers all lined up!)  Around 1:00 when the
    baby needed her nap, we would head back to the hotel (advantage
    of staying in the park, we were back at the Contemporary within
    15 mins. from the kingdom).  While she napped (and my NICE husband
    stayed with her), my older daughter and I headed to the pool for
    a couple of hours.  Once she woke up, we headed back to the kingdom
    or Epcot.  
    
    Another nice thing to know is that if someone is sick (ie: my baby
    ended up with an ear infection the first day there) they have at
    the hotels in WDW a service where a doctor makes room calls.  1
    hour after we called, an MD was at our door and had medication with
    him.  
    
    The hardest part for me with the baby was eating.  She just isn't
    used to "big people" food yet and it wasn't always convenient to
    give her babyfood.  But I worked it out.  I wouldn't hesitate to
    take a baby again.  Even the 3 hour plane ride wasn't too bad.

    I'm also taking my 14 month old daughter to Orlando next month.
    "Dad" is attending a conference but will be with us for at least
    two days (we are only going for 5).
    
    I wrote a note in the Parenting Notes File, and several folks suggested
    I ask for advise here.  Unlike some of the other folks that have
    replied here with more than one child, we only have one and I figure
    our activities may be more limited.
    
    We figure that Kelsey won't remember WDW, but she may be facinated
    with characters, music, commotion and *some* of the activities.
    Any advise on the following:
    
    o  What lands/activities should we participate in?
    o  What about the Land (don't remember name) with the lake?
    o  Are there babysitting facilities in WDW?  Would you recommend?
    o  Should we skip Epcot with Kelsey?  
    o  Do we need to make any advance reservations for "her type" of
       activities?
    o  What time of the day is best to go?  We are staying at the
       Stouffers at Sea World/Orlando, not in WDW.  Should we
       go in early AM, return to hotel for "naps, and go back?
    o  Should I take my own umbrella stoller or rent one there?
    o  What is the weather like in April (5th-9th)?
    o  Since my husband's convention is at the Stouffers W-F, does
       it make sense to try to stay in WDW for two nights?
    
    And last, for now, (I know this isn't Disney, but....), any comments
    on other Orlando activites, ie Sea World?
    
    Thanks for your help!!
    
    Laurel-the-first-time-vacation-with-baby-Mom!!
    
    

rep to < Note 22.5 by WAV12::AROIAN >

>    o  What lands/activities should we participate in?
    
    All of them, don't hesitate to visit, just remember that there are some
    heigh restriction on  some  of the ride (thunder Mountain etc.) but all
    the continuous moving rides  like  Haunted  Mansion  etc.  (move rather
    slowly) and all the theater  style presentation you'll be able to bring
    her along.
    
>    o  What about the Land (don't remember name) with the lake?

    I assume you mean EPCOT, yes  go  there  also  since as of late '86 the
    Disney  character now appear in EPCOT as  well  in  the  dress  of  the
    country etc. although your get more out of it than her.
    
>    o  Are there babysitting facilities in WDW?  Would you recommend?

    Yes,  but  they  are reserved to  WDW  Resort  Guest  only,  there  are
    facilities in the park for baby needs  however  changing room, secluded
    area for nursing etc.
    
>    o  Should we skip Epcot with Kelsey?  

    No see above.
    
>    o  Do we need to make any advance reservations for "her type" of
>       activities?

    Only if you plan to go to a special Character breakfast, otherwise just
    buy the ticket and walk right in.
    
>    o  What time of the day is best to go?  We are staying at the
>       Stouffers at Sea World/Orlando, not in WDW.  Should we
>       go in early AM, return to hotel for "naps, and go back?

    With a small child, what you ask is  the  best method, otherwise you'll
    tire not only the child but yourself as well.
    
>    o  Should I take my own umbrella stoller or rent one there?

    no need, Sea World rent stroller without umbrellas, and  all  the parks
    at Disney have strollers with sun shades for minimal charges.
    
>    o  What is the weather like in April (5th-9th)?

    nice, mid 70 to mid 80's, some night's mike require  a sweater/coat but
    for the most part, shorts, t-shirts and sneakers are in order.
    
>    o  Since my husband's convention is at the Stouffers W-F, does
>       it make sense to try to stay in WDW for two nights?

    I  you  can  get it/afford it yes, makes going bake to  the  room  pool
    easier and  less  time  consuming.  Not non-Disney resort quests aren't
    allowed use of  the resort pools/beaches, if you wish to swim at Disney
    you'll need to puchase a ticket to River COuntry.
        
>    And last, for now, (I know this isn't Disney, but....), any comments
>    on other Orlando activites, ie Sea World?

    What ask such a blasphamous question in the Disney  notes  file?    ;^)
    only kidding this is the only other attraction in the  Orlando  area  I
    recommend only if you have the time.
    
    I might suggest you  get  the  Steve  Birnbaum  book, since it has some
    hints as well as were  to go for special baby need in the Magic Kingdom
    and EPCOT. It will aslo help you prepare for you trip.
    
    CLaude    

RE: Note 22.5

>    We figure that Kelsey won't remember WDW, but she may be facinated
>    with characters, music, commotion and *some* of the activities.
>    Any advise on the following:
	
	My bet is that you may be pleasantly surprised....

	Suggeston: 

	Watch her with the characters.  Our almost 3yr old wasn't to
	keen on alot of the characters. Couldn't keep our 5yr old away
	from them.  We saw many, many a parent force their child/ren
	on a character(s) for pictures etc..  And, it was obvious from the 
	start that many of those children didn't want to be close to the 
	characters in the first place.

	What's it called...The town Hall/City Hall courtyard...It's over by 
	the  Bank and Fire House. Hang around there for awhile in the 
	morning. It may have changed, but we understood in May that it
	was the only place you'll see Mickey for pictures etc.  The 
	characters seem to simply appear for pictures in this area.  
    
	Also, and I'm sure someone here has to specifics, the characters 
	stay out only for a short period of time; depending how warm/hot it 
	is outside.  Don't be put off if and when someone shuffles goofy 
	off rather quickly cuz he's been in the sun 4 minutes to long.

>    o  What lands/activities should we participate in?

	As many as you feel comfy with.  Like someone said earlier, 
	take it slow.  Try to do fantasyland first.  It has a tendency
	to become more crowed first.

>    o  What about the Land (don't remember name) with the lake?

	My guess is you mean Tomorrowland.  If so, yeah, see it.
	There's a few slow moving, gentle rides (People Mover).

>    o  Are there babysitting facilities in WDW?  Would you recommend?

	We didn't use them last may.  Can't help much this time around.

>    o  Should we skip Epcot with Kelsey?  

	My wife and I felt "held back" if you will with our kids at 
	EPCOT.  We went for one afternoon and night and pretty much
	decided that on our next visit we'll get a babysitter, or take
	one with us, so we can do Epcot minus children. 

>    o  Do we need to make any advance reservations for "her type" of
       activities?

	You should if you can fit them into your schedule.  Don't try
	to do to much this time around.  My guess is that you'll be
	back as a family sooner than you think.

>    o  What time of the day is best to go?  We are staying at the
       Stouffers at Sea World/Orlando, not in WDW.  Should we
       go in early AM, return to hotel for "naps, and go back?

	If you can swing going back for naps then do it.  But remember
	your daughter will probable fall asleep in the stroller as
	you walk the park. If it happens, find some shade, and relax.

>    o  Should I take my own umbrella stoller or rent one there?
	
	From experience...RENT.  Two years ago we had a problem with
	our stroller being "taken by mistake" at Disneyland.  To make
	a long story short RENT, and don't leave personal type stuff
	with the stroller if you leave it unattended to go on a ride.  

>    o  What is the weather like in April (5th-9th)?

	May 18-24,'88 was down right hot.....Another story.....

>    o  Since my husband's convention is at the Stouffers W-F, does
       it make sense to try to stay in WDW for two nights?
 
	Like someone else said, if you can, it may be worth it.
   
>    And last, for now, (I know this isn't Disney, but....), any comments
    on other Orlando activites, ie Sea World?

	Again, I'm sure you'll be back again soon.  We spent 8days in 
	WDW last May, and didn't feel like seeing/being any place else 
	other than where we were in FT Wilderness.  There is simply 
	soo much available, you have to spread it out over several visits.
	That way you get to go back to see something new all the time, 
	cuz you haven't seen it yet, right?

	Bryan    
    

    >> The land with the lake???
    
    	There are alot of lakes but my guess is you might be referring
    to TYPHOON LAGOON.  It might not even be open.  I think that I'd
    skip it with a 14 month old.  There will be plenty to do and see
    in two days by just going to WDW and EPCOT.
    
    

    Geez, now I know what I meant when I said the "land with the lake".
    I meant River Country.  I remember when I went to WDW 12 years ago,
    we never got to go there, and boy did I feel like I missed out!!
    
    Is it worth purchasing a ticket to River Country with a 14 mo old?
    
    L.

    
    
    We will be going to WDW with our 4.5 and 6 year old girls during
    Memorial day weekend (May 25-June 3).  I would like to know the
    following:
    
          How is the crowd and the weather at this time of the year?  
    
          Is it possible for one of you Disney experts to give a list 
    	  of rides which we can go on or can't to go with the above
    	  mentioned kids who are about 39" and 46" tall?
    
    Thanks,
    Geetha
    
    

    The only  rides  I  remember  with  height  restrictions  was,  Thunder
    Mountain Railroad and  Grand Prix raceway (if you wish to drive) and it
    was 42 inches tall  if I remember correctly, Space Mountain use to have
    an age limit of 3  but I'm not sure.  Crowds are usually around 30k and
    manageable.
    
    For weather see note 45
    
    Claude

    One word on strollers:
    
    On our recent trip, we rented a stroller for my 3-year-old.  Cost
    is $4.  You pay $5, and get a Disney Dollar back when you return
    it.
    
    Tip:  Load your stroller up with all kinds of junk in the basket.
    Our stroller disappeared twice (two seperate days).  Both times
    it was empty.  Seems that there are some people who don't bother
    paying the $4, they just grab the first unattended empty stroller
    they see, rip the tag off, and away they go.  Easy enough to do
    for any low-life who is so inclined.  I think they'd be less likely
    to bother a stroller with something in the basket.
    
    It's easy enough to get a missing stroller replaced, but it's
    aggravating.  At some attractions, they have attendants constantly
    re-arranging the strollers, so after you spend a few minutes looking
    for yours, it's frustrating when you realize that it's been taken,
    and you have to take 10-15 minutes to go get a replacement.
    
    Another tip:  A LOT of people are using the red ribbon/yarn trick.
    Try another color.
    
    One more thing - If you're going to hit Epcot and the Magic Kingdom
    on the same day, save your stroller receipt, and you'll get another
    stroller free at the other park.

The only restrictions that I see in the Unofficial guide are:

	Big Thunder Mountain Railroad - 3'4" tall to ride, with any child 
	under 7 having to ride with an adult

	Space Mountain - 3' tall to ride

	Grand Prix - 4'4" to drive

Also, consider that the Swiss Family Treehouse requires a lot of walking
up and down on stairs.

peter

    they do seem to be flexible on the age thing.  my four year old
    [at the time] wanted to ride big thunder.  well, being the chicken
    I am,  he could go with me [or wife].  So ten year old brother takes
    him, they don't say a word.
    ed
    

    I dont have a small child but I wouldnt recommend taking a very
    small child on Space Mountain....It is a very fast ride that is
    sure to frighten small children.  Fantasyland is a best bet for
    the youngsters.
    
    Lynne S.

>>>I wouldnt recommend taking a very small child on Space Mountain....sure to 
>>>frighten small children.  Fantasyland is a best bet for the youngsters.
    
When my son was 3, he went on Space Mountain, gripped my legs very tightly and
made me hold onto him very tightly.  When we were done, he said, "Let's do it
again!" ... and again and again.  At the same age, both the Snow White ride and
Mr. Toad's Wild Ride scared him.

Also, he was a little bit shorter than the prescribed height for Thunder
Mountain, and he was heartbroken when he was turned away.  So we went out and
bought him some cowboy boots with heels which brought him up to the right
height, and one Sunday morning we did 10 in a row before moving on to another
ride. 

I think little kids (of any age) can enjoy the Magic Kingdom and EPCOT Center
(at least Future World).  My kids love all of Imagination, especially when they
meet Dream Finder and Figment outside.  They love the Kitchen Kabaret, Spaceship
Earth, World of Motion, the dinosaurs, and the Living Seas.  They also love to
play with the computers in Communicore.

--Jay

    I took my son on Space Mountain when he scraped the bottom of the sign
    in Disneyland.  After we got out, the conversation went like this:
    
    Me:		Did you like that?
    Shane:	Y-y-y-yes.
    Me:		Do you want to go again?
    Shane:	NO!!
    
    Larry

    I've read that WDW offers baby-sitting services. Does anyone know
    how much these services cost by the hour? I know Birnbaum mentions
    babysitting services in his guide book, but I don't remember reading
    a cost for these services. Since I do not have the latest version
    (1989), I do not know if he mentions it in this issue.

    	Also, does the cost vary from hotel to hotel? Does each on-pro-
    perty hotel offer this service? Please help, as I may be planning
    a trip with a three year old.
    
    	John F...

rep to  <<< Note 22.20 by FRIEZE::FRATTURELLI "I'd rather be at Disney World" >>>

>                         -< Babysitter's cost in WDW >-

    If memory  serves  me right, the rate was $5/hour with a 3 hour minimum
    back in '87.    You  can  call 407-827-5437 for the current rates.  The
    themed resorts Grand Floridian, Contemporary, Polynesean and Disney INN
    rental  trailers  at  Fort  Wilderness and the  Villas  offer  in  room
    service, while the other hotels on property, can  have  their  children
    watched  at the Kindercare facility at the Walt Disney  World  Village.
    The  Contemporary and Polynesean had a Mickey Mouse Clubhouse for  drop
    off  babysitting as well (not sure if the Grand Floridian has  this  as
    well?).
    
    Claude

    Claude,
    
    	Thanks for the information!
    
    
    		John F...
    

    re: .20
    
    Birnbaum does not give the price in the '89 guide either.  I did
    ask though when I talked to MKC Travel Center about a month ago.
    
    In-room baby sitting is through Kindercare, (407)827-5444, reservations
    must be made 1 yr. to 8 hrs. in advance.  The cost for 2 kids was quoted
    at $7/hr.  They did not mention a minimum number of hours, but 3-4
    sounds reasonable.  Kindercare does all WDW resorts, and from what I
    gather some other hotels as well, such as those in the Hotel Plaza. 
    
    There is a Mouseketeer Clubhouse in the Contemporary, (407)824-3737
    that is open from 4 PM to Midnight that charges $4.00/hr for the first
    child and $.50/hr for each additional child.  Four hours MAXIMUM stay. 
                                                                          
    Neverland in the Polynesian, (with a Peter Pan theme), (407)824-2170
    charges $6.00/hr per child, but unlike the Contemporary, serves dinner
    between 6:00 and 7:00 PM.  The kids get a kick out of ordering for
    themselves without their parents around. 
                           
    I am pretty sure for both the Mouse House and Neverland the kids
    must be toilet trained.

    I seem to remember hearing about a similar type facility in the
    Grand Floridian, but I can't find any information on it.  Perhaps
    someone who has stayed there can confirm.

    
    re:-.1
    
    When I was at WDW I saw a child care center of some sort at the
    Grand Floridian.  Since I wasn't plaing on leaving my kids I didn't
    check it out.

              <<< Note 22.23 by INDMKT::GOLDBERG "Len Goldberg" >>>
                            -< Babysitting Charges >-
    
    In-room baby sitting is through Kindercare, (407)827-5444, reservations
    must be made 1 yr. to 8 hrs. in advance.
                 ^^^^
    
    Talk about advance planning ;-)

    I took my whole family to California last year, which included my
    2 year old son & 13 month old daughter. Apart from the increase
    in temperature by 40 or 50 degrees..a day to get used to...they
    very much enjoyed all the theme parks we visited.
    
    My son took the log plume with me, also Star Tours...yes he cried
    out but I think he enjoyed it. We also went back to the hotel for
    a dip about midday.
    
    Another thought if you have a 3-day pass, is perhaps to go down
    to Raging Waters at Laguna Hills.This was definately a good place
    for the kids, but watch the sun!
    
    
    Richard UK CSC Basingstoke.

  >Another thought if you have a 3-day pass, is perhaps to go down
  >to Raging Waters at Laguna Hills.This was definately a good place
  >for the kids, but watch the sun!
 
     Are you sure you're not thinking of Wild Rivers in Irvine?
     
     I live in Irvine and Laguna Hills is about five miles down the
     road.  Wild Rivers is pretty much on the Irvine/Laguna Hills border.   
     
     It is a fun place to go.
    
     Jodi-

    

    Well spotted, not a deliberate mistake but time erasing the mind
    I think!

    I am planning a trip to all the parks in December. My daughter will
    be 2 1/2. Does anyone know of restrictions either age or height
    at MGM-Studio or Epcot? I know there are restrictions for Space
    Mountain and Big Thunder but anything else in the MK? I am staying
    at the Caribbean Beach Resort, does anyone know if they have
    babysitting? How much? This will be my first time to WDW with a
    child so any help will be much appreciated. Thanks!!
    

    None of the literature mentions any restrictions for attractions
    in either Epcot or the studio, however there are some suggestions
    that some rides may be too intense for younger children.  I expect
    it depends on your kids.
    
    For complete information on baby sitting in the WDW resorts see
    22.23.  Since posting that note I have determined that there is
    a mouse-house in the Grand Floridian, that charges the same rates
    as the one in the Contemporary.

    RE: .29..
    
    I just returned 2 weeks ago from WDW with an (almost) 5 year old and a
    3 1/4 year old - it was our first trip as well.
    
    Some insights regarding my 3+ year old will probably be beneficial to
    your 2 1/2 year old:
    
    o Height restrictions on both Space Mountain and Big Thunder Mountain. 
      I went on Space Mountain by myself, and took my 5 year old on BTM. I
      would NOT bring a  2 1/2 year old on either ride (even if he/she were
      tall enough).
    
    o "Magic Journies" (a 3-D presentation sponsored by Kodak in the MK)
      frightened by 3+ year old right out of his seat into my lap!  After
      this presentaion, we noticed that they do have warning signs in the
      brochure about some attractions not being appropriate for young
      children.  Depending on your child, you may want to be aware of the
      rides with this warning.
    
    o Based on the above, we did not bring my 3 year old on "Captain EO"
     (in Epcot), Great Movie Ride (at MGM), or the World of Energy (in
     Epcot).
    
    Hope this helps!
    
    

rep to < Note 22.31 by WJO::MCLEAN "Not that it really matters but..." >

>    o "Magic Journies" (a 3-D presentation sponsored by Kodak in the MK)
>      frightened by 3+ year old right out of his seat into my lap!  After
>      this presentaion, we noticed that they do have warning signs in the
>      brochure about some attractions not being appropriate for young
>      children.  Depending on your child, you may want to be aware of the
>      rides with this warning.

    I had  experience this back in '82 when my son was 3 1/2 and when Magic
    Journeys was in  Epcots  World Of Imagination (now Captain EO).  MY son
    not being experienced with 3D kept crabing  either  my wife arm or mine
    whenever an object seemed just outside of your  reach.    However after
    the show, and after we explained the theory (real simplistic mind your)
    of what 3D was he wanted to go back again,  you  figure?  (and we did 2
    more times ;^))
    
    Claude

    re .31
    
    I never took my kids when they were that young.  Is there any reason
    why you didn't take 3+ year old on the World of Energy in EPCOT?  Is
    there a warning in the brochure that it may frighten young children? 
    
    My son, 5 the first time we went, thought that the ride in the Energy
    pavilion was neat and liked the dinosaurs.  Did your 5 year old go on
    the Energy ride?  How did s/he like it?
    
    peter

     re .33
    
     My 4 1/2 year old went on Energy and HATED it.  She was
    bored by the film's and very very scared of the ride.  The first
    thing she told my wife when she got off was that the Dinasours
    tried to eat us.  To be honest I was supprised by her reaction.
    She is normally a very brave little kid, and like alot of little
    kids thinks that dinasours are really neat.  I thought that she
    would like the ride.  I was very wrong.

    dan

    My wife and I took our 4 year old and 2 year old in '86.  They both
    enjoyed the "ENERGY" ride.  The 4 year old was totally fasinated
    by it, so much so I had to take him again. (he loves dinasours).
    
    They both were extremely scared in the "Haunted Mansion".
    
    I guess all kids react differently to every situation at WDW.
    
    The two year old wouldn't go near or let a character get near her
    until Snow White gave her a big kiss and hug, even after that she
    still shyed away from any of them with "fur". The 4 year old went
    right after them with no problems.
    

    re.33
    
    The wife and I were a bit cautious after the 3-D experience with my 3
    year-old, so we did not want him exposed to anything that would cause
    him to react like he did at the Kodak film.
    
    My wife took my 5 year-old into the "Energy" show at Epcot - he was
    fine.
    
    I should also mention (again this was our first time) that all of us
    saw Haunted Mansion.  We inadvertantly got into the wrong line (we
    thought we were in line for Tom Sawyer's island) and before you know
    it, we were into the Haunted Mansion.  This was also after seeing the
    3-D movie.  Both children loved it!
    
    It's hard to figure out what kids will react to (both positive and
    negative) at WDW.  Again, knowing your child is a big part of it.  
    
    I was surprised at my 5-year old's reaction to Big Thunder Mountain,
    for example.  He is fearless (or so I thought), but could barely handle
    the ride, and did NOT want to go on a second time, when offered.  I
    thought my 3 year-old would be scared to death at the Haunted Mansion,
    but was fine.
    
    How do you figure it???
    
    
    
    

    
    We are WDW veterans, having been many times.  Our daughter is 3
    and we jjust got back from a 2 weeker to Florida.  She amazed us
    by not getting scared at anything. Didn't blink in the haunted house,
    but was kind of quiet.  
    
    However, our biggest warning to parents of small children is to
    stay in or just outside the WDW grounds.  And I mean very close.
     The two times we didn't stay there and tried to commute from my
    parents an hour away were disasters.  Our daughter got very tired
    by three or four and if we pushed her much past that, she threw
    a tantrum to beat the band.  This trip we stayed on WDW property
    for four nights and the rest at parents.  That worked well as we
    did Disney the five days we were in Orlando and the beach and other
    things the rest of the time.
    
    By staying there, you can easily come out at 3, give the kids a
    nap, relax and have a drink and shower. Go back in at 6 and stay
    till closing.
    
    Trust me.
    
    Jim
    

    i am looking for advise from anyone who has flown to the world with
    an child still in diapers.
    
    here's the dilema. we are staying on property ,the contemporary,
    without a car. we can not figure out how to bring along enough
    disposable diapers to last eight days. i read in the bible that
    diapers are sold at MK and Epcot at the baby care centers but i
    imagine that this would be per diaper at big expense.
                            
    we are a family of four who will already have to much luggage and
    carry-ons.
    
    any suggestions would be greatly appreciated as this is the last
    of our packing problems.
    
    john (18 days to go )

    Call Disney and find out just how expensive diapers are at the baby
    care centers.  While you're at it, find out if you can receive packaged
    mail at the Contemporary Resort Hotel.
    
    If ok to receive packaged mail, find out from U.S. Postal Service how
    much it will cost to send a package of diapers to Disney's Contemporary
    Resort Hotel.
    
    If cost effective, (ie. sending diapers  <  purchasing there) then send
    the package a few days before leaving yourself.
    
    Admittedly not reliable but it -could- work given all the right
    variables...
    
    Good luck,
    
    -Andy

    My cousin's wife used the MK Baby Center (sponser by Gerber, located 
    between the Crystal Palace and the Refreshment Corner) and was pleased
    by it.  It seems (call to confirm, of course) that she only had to make
    a single donation and then had free use of all facilities including the
    diapers, changing locations, cleaning stuff, et al.
    
    george
    

    There is a small grocery store at Disney's shopping village.  I
    would expect that they would have dipers there.  I also believe
    that I have seen dipers at the trading post in fort wilderness.
    Both of these places are accessable via disney transporation.
    
    dan

    When we went down with my littlest in diapers we were able to purchase
    them at both the Fort Wilderness trading post and the Disney shopping
    village without any problem. If worst comes to worst take the bus to
    the shopping village and then take a nice walk by all the hotels until
    you get to Crossroads Plaza. They have a very large supermarket called
    Goodings that definitely carrys them. (note approx 1/2 mile from
    village)
    
    You should be able to find enough nooks and crannies in your luggage
    and carry ons to bring a healthly supply and the Gerber baby centers
    are convienent and that should get you started. 

    thanks for the great input, especially about disney village and
    fort wilderness. we already planned to cram as many as we can in
    the bags we are taking but there is no way we can take enough for
    the whole vaca.
    
    thanks again,
    
    john (who is more excited than his 6 year old)

We just came back from WDW a few weeks ago.  Our daughter is 19 months old
and we had her at MK for one day (relatives babysitted the other times we
were there).

Our daughter is *very* outgoing and generally very happy.  Nothing seemed to
scare her and she certainly had some good times.  However, the lines were
very hard for her to take.  We waited in 15-30 minute lines about 5 times.
The main reason for this is that you can't use the strollers in line.  If we
could, we would have had no problems.  At the Country Bear Jamboree, it was
fine once we got inside in the waiting area and she could wander around a
little.  (Of course, she *loved* all the people around her.)

A friend who went the week before with his 1+_ year old said that he had
no problem because they had a backpack to keep their daughter in while in
line.  If I had to do it over again, I might get one just for WDW because
the problems in line were very significant.  Enjoy yourself!

Collis

I have not been down there at Thanksgiving time but we have been there
in the spring during school vacations. It does get crowded but we were
always able to find an "oasis" or two.

We found that Mr Toads Wild Ride and the Sleeping Beauty Ride
can be quite scary for the small kids. Ours came out crying.
They do have a small sign in front of these attractions
stating that the rides might be too much for little kids
but the signs were so small that we did not see them.

It's a small world is a great one for kids. The train,steam boat,
the jungle cruise, wedway people mover, and a lot of other rides
should be OK. There are also the shows like the Tike birds that 
would be good.

There is a playground at Mickeyland and apetting zoo that was not too
crowded when we were there.
We also found that the Adventureland restaurant was usally not crowded
whenever we ate there. It is a little off the main traffic path I guess.

I would suggest taking the train to Mickeyland  first.

    Mickeyland is a great place to start for a little one, my niece and
    nephew loved it!  But be just a little cautious in introducing them to
    Mickey and friends.  To quote Robin Williams:
    
    	"To a two year old, Mickey Mouse is a six-foot giant rat!"  :-)
    
    My nephew was fine, as long as the characters were "over there", but
    got very upset when Mickey came over to say hello.  :-)  
    Pretty funny, really.
    
    enjoy!

    My wife, 6 year old son, and I will be leaving in two weeks (11/17) for
    10 days at WDW.  Needless to say, we are somewhat excited at this point
    :-)
    
    It is our understanding that during this time, WDW closes at about 6:00
    p.m.  We are wondering if anyone can suggest some nite time activities,
    preferably within the WDW complex, that all of us, including our son,
    can enjoy.
    
    Thanks for any and all suggestions.
    
    Bob N

    Church Street Station!  Don't miss it!  Has lots of things to do
    including arcade for the kid, shops for the wife, and bars for you
    (just kidding ;-).  Seriously, IMO, this would be a great place to take
    the family and, from what I've seen the times I did make it there, lots
    of families do go.  

    From memory:

    Rosie O'Grady's Saloon -- New Orleans style saloon with jazz band,
    singing waiters and waitresses that do the "can-can" (how is that
    spelled, anyway?).  Audience participation encouraged for singalongs
    and stuff.  Served:  Sandwiches and drinks.

    Cheyenne Saloon -- Old West Saloon with country band.  Skits, etc...,
    take place on occasion (they do throughout Church Street Station). 
    Restaurant upstairs serves BBQ, hamburgers, chicken.  A play-money
    casino upstairs (but costs real money to play).

    Lots of shops to browse for clothes, souvenirs.  Arcade for kids to
    play pinball, skeeball, even a teen-disco.  A few restaurants scattered
    about.

    Have fun...

    -Andy (I'm envious)

rep to <<< Note 22.48 by WHYNOW::NEWMAN "What, me worry? YOU BET!" >>>

>               -< What to do in the evening with a 6 year old? >-
>    It is our understanding that during this time, WDW closes at about 6:00
>    p.m.  We are wondering if anyone can suggest some nite time activities,
>    preferably within the WDW complex, that all of us, including our son,
>    can enjoy.
    
    IF WDW closes at 6:pm  how  can you do something in WDW when it closes?
    :^) 
    
    Obviously you  must  have  meant the Magic Kingdom instead of the first
    WDW in your statement above (happens all the time People confuse WDW to
    the MK, when it  is  really all the parks, hotels etc on site), which I
    beleive is about right for the operating hours during this time (please
    follow the rules in 98 about asking/posting hours).   

    There is plenty to do at night  especially with Pleasure Island, Dinner
    Shows  in  the  Resorts/Epcot,  Fort  Wilderness  (if  your  staying on
    property)  etc.,  EPCOT  is  usually open later than the MK (see  above
    statement on hours etc) so start the day in MK fininsh in Epcot.
    
    Claude

    If you're staying on WDWproperty Ft. Widerness has outdoor theatres
    with  a campfire jamboree with Chip and Dale. They show a different
    disney movie every night.
    
                Toby

    
    I looked through all the replies to this topic and didn't see one on
    what I think is a kid's dream.
    
    The Poly has a 'club' for kids called the Neverland Club. Our son (age
    8 at the time) had about the best time in the world the evening we
    signed him up. We went to the luau(sp) and I'm convinced he had the
    best of it.  It ran about $5 hr. Trained daycare providers. Finger food
    and treats (kids had to eat one of the finger foods for supper to get
    to the treats) free video games, continuous cartoons, games, sleepy
    area (not used much).
    
    Charactors visted and Polaroids were taken with the kids. Very up close
    and impressive to my son. A year later and we're now planning on going
    back to the World. He has a lot things he wants to see again. Right up
    near the top of the list - the Poly's Neverland Club - of course.
    
    Check the unofficial guide, Central Reservations or the Poly desk for
    ages and rates. Or for the real word ask one of the Mods.

When we went to WDW in 1988 my daughter Nicole was 8 months old
and my niece Lindsay was 15 months old.  We took them on almost
all of the rides with little or no trouble.  We tended to avoid
things that would be too boring for Lindsay such as movies and
the Hall of Presidents.

Nick and Lindsay were both too young to be frightened by things
like the Haunted Mansion but did give us some trouble on other
attractions.  Nicole was bothered a lot by the loud noises in
Captain EO.  Both of them made a lot of noise (I think it was
because they liked it) during the Country Bears and Tiki Birds
which might have annoyed the people around us.  Lindsay really
fussed a lot in Mission to Mars which ruined it for others.
Both babies loved It's a Small World, the WEDway Peoplemover
and the train.

In choosing attractions to take the babies on I considered how
much a gurgling or crying child would interrupt the show.  If
there was a high chance of spoiling the show for others, we
didn't try it (yes, we blew it a couple of times such as
Mission to Mars).  If they started fussing a bit during an
attraction we were usually able to halt it by giving them a
bottle of juice to drink.

We rented strollers for both babies plus I had a front pack for
Nicole and my sister had a back pack for Lindsay.  The babies
spent a lot of time in both the strollers and packs.  I recommend
a front pack for small babies since you can keep them in it while
you're on the rides.  Nicole tended to fall asleep in it on every
ride.  We did have a problem with naps for Lindsay.  She wouldn't
sleep in the stroller or in the hotel.  She was too wound up to
fall asleep - fortunately she's not a fussy child.

As far as baby stuff goes...  We managed to cram a box of diapers
in our luggage so we didn't have to buy any there.  I did see
really small packages on sale at the Contemporary Resort.  The price
was something like $5.00 for ten diapers.  They also had other baby
supplies like powder, pins, thermometers, and bottles.  One thing
they didn't have was Tylenol infant drops.  I was able to buy the
children's elixir at the main gate of the MK but had to guess on
the dosage.

We brought powdered formula, several jars of baby food and several
bottles of juice in our carry on luggage.  I would pack a couple
of bottles with just powder in it and another bottle with just
water in it and mix them as needed.  We were unable to bring enough
food and juice to get through the week so we had to buy some there.
They had a very limited selection - 2 or 3 vegetables, 2 or 3 fruits
and 2 or 3 juices.  I think Nicole had carrots, bananas and apple
juice all week!  The food and juice were about 50 cents each.  They
did have formula - I think it was $2.00 for a small ready to drink
can.

We took our daughter Nicole to WDW again when she was 22 months
old.  Much to our surprise, she did very well on all the attractions
we took her on.  She was old enough to be afraid of some things but
not old enough to express her fears.  For example, she was afraid
in the Haunted Mansion but didn't cry and did not object to a repeat
trip.

I think the hardest part of the trip for her was waiting in line.
She had no concept of waiting for her turn.  This seems to be
common in little children.  We stood in the Dumbo line behind a
little boy who cried every time the ride stopped because it wasn't
his turn.  I really felt sorry for him.

We rented a stroller each day.  Nicole spent most of her time riding
in the stroller although she wanted to run around at times.  She
was unable to sleep in the MK and Epcot strollers but had no trouble
sleeping in the umbrella style ones at MGM.

Here's a list of Nicole's favorite attractions (in approximate order
of preference):
    It's a Small World
    The WEDway People Mover
    Journey into Imagination
    The Kitchen Kabaret
    Mickey's Birthday party
    Dumbo
    El Rio Del Tiempo (Mexico)
    Delta's Dreamflight
    The Great Movie Ride
    Cinderella's Carousel
    WDW Railroad
    Horizons
    Toon town in MGM
    Mad Tea Party

Strollers:  in August 1988 and October 1989 they were $5 per day
	    with a $1 refund (Disney dollar or American currency)
	    if you turned them in at the end of the day.

    MK - these strollers can't be folded so can't be brought on
    the train.  I'm guessing they can't be brought on any other
    attractions either.  They are very sturdy (I've seen adults
    riding in them) and have a basket for putting things in and
    a canopy to protect the child from the sun.

    Epcot - the strollers are the same as the MK ones.  I don't
    think you can bring them on any attractions.  This could be
    inconvenient for those who want to take the boats and buses
    to the World Showcase.

    MGM - the strollers are the umbrella type and can be folded
    up but have no canopy to protect the child from the sun.
    You can take them on the back stage tour for the walking
    portion but must fold them up for the first part.  We were
    allowed to take ours on the Animation Tour but had to keep
    it folded up.

We recently bought an umbrella stroller with a canopy for our
next trip.  It was on sale for $25 (just $1 more than renting
for six days.  We figure the convenience of being able to
take it on the train will be worth it.  We've also bought a
wrist strap/hand holder (kiddie leash) for when Nicole wants
to walk by herself.

Some things to look out for when choosing attractions:

    Some attractions are very dark inside.  If your child is afraid
    of the dark you might want to avoid these.  Some examples are:
    Tropical Serenade, Pirates of the Caribbean, the Haunted Mansion,
    Snow White's Scary Adventures, Mr. Toad's Wild Ride, Space
    Mountain, the Carousel of Progress, Spaceship Earth, Journey into
    Imagination, Universe of Energy, the Great Movie Ride and probably
    all movies.

    Some attractions have loud noises.  If your child is afraid of
    loud noises (explosions, gun shots, thunder) you may want to avoid
    these.  Some examples are Tropical Serenade, Pirates of the Caribbean,
    the Haunted Mansion, the Jungle Cruise, Journey into Imagination,
    Universe of Energy, the Great Movie Ride, the Monster Sound Show,
    Indiana Jones Epic Stunt Theater, parts of the Backstage tour,
    Captain EO, Magic Journeys and possibly other movies.

    Some attractions have scary images which might upset your child.
    Some examples are the Haunted Mansion, Snow White's Scary Adventures,
    the Jungle Cruise, World of Motion, Journey into Imagination,
    the ride in Norway, parts of the Animation tour, the Great Movie Ride,
    Captain EO and Magic Journeys.

    Portions of some attractions have long pre-shows or informative
    sections which require longer attention spans.  If your child can't
    tolerate sitting through a 10 minute film describing some portion
    of US History you may want to avoid these attractions.  Some
    examples are the Hall of Presidents, the Walt Disney Story,
    the Living Seas, the Universe of Energy, the ride in Norway and
    parts of the Animation tour.

Below is a list of various things we have tried and my assessment of
things to watch out for with children.  Nicole was 22 months old
when we last went to WDW.  I have listed her reactions when
appropriate.  WARNING: some items contain slight spoilers.

Magic Kingdom:
    Main Street, USA -- lots of people shopping; it is hard to pry
        a stuffed animal out of your child's hands
    Cinderella Castle --  the murals depicting the Cinderella story
        don't look like the characters in the Disney cartoon; Nicole
	didn't recognize them
    Tropical Serenade -- Nicole was bored by this; all of the action
        takes place above your heads which was hard for her to focus
	on
    Swiss Family Island Treehouse -- a lot of walking/climbing
    Country Bear Vacation Hoedown -- may have a long wait in the
        entrance area prior to show
    Mickey's Birthdayland -- may have a long wait in the pre-show
        area for the party (try to arrive just before the show starts);
	long line for the dressing room portion; Nicole tried to climb
	on to the stage to get the characters
    Cinderella's Golden Carousel -- may have to wait in line
    Mad Tea Party -- child may be bothered by the spinning motion
    Dumbo, the Flying Elephant -- long waits in line (in the sun)
        for a short ride; Nicole loved this ride
    Peter Pan's Flight -- may bother child who is afraid of heights;
        lots of day-glo paint; threatening alligators
    Skyway -- may bother anyone who is afraid of heights; long lines
        at tomorrowland entrance; longer lines at fantasyland entrance
    20,000 Leagues Under the Sea -- long lines
    Mission to Mars -- may have to wait a while for next show; small
        children (and adults!) will probably be bored
    Carousel of Progress -- dark (like a theater); descriptive in
        nature
    "American Journeys" -- movie; you have to stand up during it
    Pirates of the Caribbean -- ride is dark; simulated cannon/gun
        shots; simulated fire
    Jungle Cruise -- large, realistic looking animals; headhunters;
        dark section in destroyed temple (includes animals with
	glowing eyes)
    Tom Sawyer Island -- relaxing place to go; I believe there is
        a cave there that is very dark
    Big Thunder Mountain Railroad -- roller coaster; there is a
        height requirement
    Hall of Presidents -- intro movie depicting some US history;
        although the audio-animatronics are fascinating I suspect
	small children would be extremely bored while Abe Lincoln
	gives his speech
    Haunted Mansion -- although the ride is done in a light-hearted
        manner, it still is a haunted house; it's dark; thunder and
	lightening; skeletons and ghosts
    Snow White's Scary Adventures -- Nicole was quite scared on
        this ride; you only see the dwarfs once and they look
	terrified; witch appears a lot
    Magic Journeys -- must wear 3-D glasses for effect; some frightening
        images - witch, African type of masks; 3-D effect may upset
    Mr. Toad's Wild Ride -- throughout the ride you are almost crashing
        into things; Nicole was frightened on this ride
    Space Mountain -- roller coaster in the dark; there is a height
        requirement
    Starjets -- long lines; may bother anyone who is afraid of heights;
        is similar to Dumbo but goes faster; Nicole didn't like this
	ride
    Grand Prix Raceway -- very long lines in the sun; I refuse to
        try it

Epcot Center:
    The Living Seas -- you must sit through a couple of movies before
        entering the aquarium portion
    The Land -- Listen to the Land is an educational boat tour and
	Symbiosis is a movie, both may be boring to small children
    Journey into Imagination -- Journey into Imagination ride has
        some dark portions based on fear, has some thunder and
	lightning;  Captain EO is very loud, the special effects
	may be too intense for small children
    Universe of Energy -- you must sit through 2 or 3 educational
        movies besides seeing the dinosaurs; the dinosaurs are
	very large, the scenes are very realistic and may frighten
	small children
    World Showcase -- movies may be tough for small children to
        sit through; the American adventure is similar to the Hall
	of Presidents; the Norway ride may frighten small children

MGM:
    Great Movie Ride -- some scenes may frighten small children such
        as the Wizard of Oz and the gangster/western stuff
    Monster Sound Show -- probably not as frightening as the name
        sounds; you end up watching a pseudo-horror film three
	times; Nicole was getting upset by the final showing
    Backstage Tour -- Catastrophe Canyon is a simulated earthquake,
        with explosions and lots of water, Nicole was mostly
	frightened by the motion of the tram (prior to the good
	stuff); the walking portion can be boring to small children
	because they can't see what's going on; Nicole liked the
	Toon town portion but was frightened when the DIP(?) mobile
	started up because she thought it was going to get her
	and mommy
    Animation Tour -- may be too boring for small children; part
        of the tour consists of watching famous scenes from Disney's
	cartoons which may be upsetting (such as Bambi's mother)
    Indiana Jones Epic Stunt Spectacular -- lots of explosions

Restaurants:
    Minnie's Menehune Character breakfast -- those characters are
        huge to a small child; Nicole liked Minnie, Chip and Dale
	but was afraid of Goofy and Pluto - the characters are
	sensitive to this issue and back off quickly if needed
    You will usually have to wait a while for your food at a
        sit down restaurants which can be too much for a small
	child; the Prime Time Cafe solves this by bringing
	crayons and a picture to color to your table, too bad
	other restaurants don't do this

Misc:
    Afternoon parade -- waiting by the curb can be hard; my
        niece tried to run out to the floats to get the characters
    Electrical parade, Electrical Water Pageant, Fireworks and
        Illuminations -- may be held too late for small children;
	they are also stimulating; the fireworks and Illuminations
	have fireworks with the requisite bangs and booms

    Ruth,

    Thanks for all the tips on babies and toddlers.  Adam will be coming
    along on our next trip in November and will be 26 months then.

    One minor nit, strollers and non-motorized wheelchairs CAN be
    accommodated on the FriendShip Launches that cross World Showcase
    Lagoon.  We found that out too late last time and ended up carrying our
    twins out of the park after IllumiNations.

    Just got back last Friday.  Yes, a trip report is forthcoming, but I
    wanted to make an update here since it involves things recommended for
    small children.   
    
    Both It's a Small World and the Mickey Mouse Surprise Party are closed
    for several weeks.  No one that I talked to had information concerning
    how long Small World would be closed.   Mickey Mouse birthday was to be
    reopened "soon" in a different format.  No more details.
    
    The advice that  people gave here for the kids is really excellent.  It
    helped us a lot with our three year old.  We also have a seven year old
    who will do anything and a very affable six month old who just goes
    along.  Three is a funny age when children are trying to be "big" and
    working very hard to separate reality from fiction, so having
    information in hand helped us prepare a more enjoyable visit for our
    "big" guy.  Oh, we missed the mark once or twice, but that was our
    guessing wrong about his capacities rather than the information that
    we were supplied.
    
    Dennis

    I just called the general information number at WDW after seeing your 
    note that things were closed. They told me that the following things
    would be opened on May 18 (luckily I'll still be there):
               
                 It's A Small World
                 Mickey's TV Land (formerly Mickey's Birthdayland)
                 The WEDway People Mover
                 Skyway
    
    The following attractions are closed without a definite reopening
    date:
    
                 Diamond Horseshoe Jamboree
                 Grand Prix Raceway
    
    Also, the Muppet characters are now in MGM, although the Muppet 
    attractions are not yet open. The show with the Muppets in it will be
    opening sometime this summer, but the Muppet movie ride attraction
    will not open until next year.
    
    Linda
    
    

    I believe that during the Summer months Mickey's Birthday Land will
    turn into Mickey's Starland.
    
    Mike_who_has_OMIGOSH_57_days_to_go

    We plan on taking our 2 year old swimming at WDW.  The problem is,
    she's still in diapers.  We plan on going to Typhoon Lagoon so we
    need something that will last for a while.  I've seen four suggestions:
    
    	1.  Disposable diaper and swim suit - When wet, disposable diapers
    	    disintegrate after a while so I don't think that's a good choice.
    	    I imagine they'd disintegrate more quickly if she were running
    	    around and playing in the sand.  Can be quite messy.
    	2.  Cloth diaper/pins and swim suit - Cloth diapers/pins are less
    	    convenient than training pants and probably don't work any better.
    	3.  Training pants and swim suit - I'm leaning toward this one.
    	4.  Swim suit only - Most convenient but probably asking for
            trouble.
    
    None of these suggestions will prevent her from peeing in the water
    (or on the ground) so I'm mostly worried about poops.  I don't think
    there's much risk of her doing it in the water but the odds increase
    on land so I need to be prepared.  (I have visions of the Baby Ruth
    candy bar from Caddyshack!)
    
    Do any of you have experience with taking kids in diapers swimming, to
    Typhoon Lagoon or to River Country?  Do you know what WDW recommends?
    Any other suggestions?
    
    Thanks,
    Ruth

    re .62
    There's a good discussion of this very subject in HELPME::PARENTING,
    note 2046. Concensus seems to be that training pants (with or without
    rubber pants) are the best solution.
    
    Jack

  RE the note on diapers when in the water.
  
  We visited both Typhoon Lagoon and River Country in April and had the self 
  same problem. Wearing either a disposable or towelling diaper in the water 
  is out of the question. Our 2 year old wore only a swimsuit. We had an 
  'accident' at each place. It was simply a question of keeping a constant 
  eye out for that tell tale rear bulge and then taking a swift visit to the 
  rest room with a clean pair of trunks. 
  
  This works fine when things are solid. If your child is inclined to be a 
  little 'runny' then you have a problem.
  
  Hope this helps
  
  Robin@OLO

    Thanks for the input so far.  I just tried to get information
    from WDW but couldn't get through to Typhoon Lagoon.
    
    re: .64 - Could you tell me why diapers are out of the question
    	at Typhoon Lagoon and River Country?  Is this Disney policy
    	or did you find it more convenient without them?  In 1988
    	we used disposable diapers under a swim suit in the main
    	pool at the Contemporary Resort.  Nothing was said to us so
    	I didn't think much of it.

    I'll answer my own question.  I finally got through to Typhoon
    Lagoon.  The woman I spoke with sounded like a real drip but she
    said training pants under a swim suit would be ok.

  Saying that Diapers are out of the question in the water is simply my own 
  judgement based on seeing what happened once when we tried it at home. As 
  soon as they get wet you have to take them off so there is no point in 
  putting them on if there is any possiblity of your child sitting down in 
  the water.
  
  Robin@OLO

There's lots of information in this note about the attractions (which is why
I tracked down this notes file).   I am wondering if people would like to
offer advice on the best place to stay with a 2 1/2 year old.  I read the notes
on lodging but most do not give specifics on small children.  My son still 
takes a nap (and not in a stroller...) so I'd like to be close.  I can't 
imagine staying in one room (how would you deal with the fact that he sleeps 
11 hours at night and we sleep 8).  So, I guess I would be interested in a 
suite.  The Polynesian Resort sounds the nicest to me but their rates for a 
suite are 510-550 per night - offseason!  The Carribbean Beach Resort sounds
nice (and affordable) but they don't have suites.  Any suggestions?  What about 
suites in the Contemporary or Disney Village Resort?  Or just outside Disney 
(Quality Suites, etc.)  How would that work out?

[P.S.  If I had read this notes file before buying my (non-refundable) airline 
tickets for October -- I probably would have purchased some Disney stock and 
taken advantage of the 40% discount in September or November.  Next time....]

thanks.

Three suggestions for cheap suites inside WDW.

1) A Trailer Home in Fort Wilderness.  These are actually 46' mobile home.
   They have a seperate bed room, that with a double bed and bunks, and there is
   a pull down bed in the living room.  They also have complete kitchens.  See
   note 14.* for more informaiton.  This is where we will be staying with our
   five-year-old twins and two-year-old in November. 

2) One and two bedroom, and club suites can be had at the Disney Village Resort.
   I haven't stayed there, but I understand they are very nice, and cheaper than
   the larger hotels.

3) The Guest Quarters, (or is it Embassy Suites?) in the WDW Hotel Plaza is an
   all suites hotel.  Rooms are about the same as the poly or contempory, but
   you get a one bedroom suite for the price.

Or you could rent a condo off the property, but you wouldn't want to do that :-)

    We have stayed in the Days Lodge in Kissimmee several times and find it
    quite good.  You get a 3 room suite for about $360/week ( off season
    rate ) and it is only about a ten minute drive to Disney.
    

    re. -1
    
    I second that vote for Days Lodge in Kissimmee.  It is close to
    Disney and the rooms are *very* quiet.  I didn't hear my neighbors
    all week when we where there (July 3-10, '90).  You don't get too
    much neon or flashing billboards on the way back from Disney, either.
    
    Gary
    
    

    re .69, .70
    
    When we visited WDW in March, we stayed in a one-bedroom club suite
    in the Disney Village Resort.  I'm not sure of the price comparison
    against Guest Quarters (I think this was formerly Pickett Suites),
    I think they were within a few dollars.  BTW, they're located within
    five minutes of one another; a short hop to EPCOT or MGM, a 10-minute
    drive or bus to MK.  With an almost-two-year-old and a four-year-old,
    this was the place for us.
    
    .71, .72 -- for shame!  Suggesting off-site accomodations! (-:
    
    -- John

    I think the Club Suites would be nice for you.  We stayed in them in
    Nov, '87 (if I've got the right name).  These are the Suites which
    basically have 2 rooms and bath.  One room contained the 2 queen size
    beds.  The other room, separated by a door, was a living room and more.
    There was a small refrigerator and, if I recall correctly, a small
    sink.  An electric pot to heat up water was provided, along with some
    packets of instant coffee and styrofoam cups.
    
    I'm not sure if the couch opened up into a bed or not, but there was
    adequate privacy for/from the kids.
    
    FYI - Personally, I would recommend that should you stay here, request
    a second floor room.  One night while we were there, the people in the
    room above us must have given their kids too much chocolate, or
    something.  They were hyper and ran nonstop from one end of the suite
    to the other end and back and ... from 9-11 PM!!!
    
    Also, should you opt to stay here, you may want to consider driving to
    the theme parks.  The bus rides to/from here, and this may have changed
    in the past 2 years, tend to be long.  The buses drive through the Club
    suites, the Treehouse Villas, and the Lakeside Villas, which takes
    time.  If you are not in a big rush, you can take the buses.  We did
    all the time, but our kids were 10 & 8.  Many small kids were over
    tired on the bus, and it showed toward the end of their ride!
    
    peter

    oops - sorry for not putting this in the last reply, but just
    remembered.  The Club suites may qualify for a 20% discount in the
    October time frame.  Can anyone give a definitive answer to that?
    What would the price be for a night?
    
    peter

    I have been to Disney 3 times with an infant.  The first time Samantha
    was 10 weeks old.  We stayed at Fort Wilderness in our Motorhome.  This
    was convenient.  She was sleeping in a stroller at the time so naps
    were not a problem.
    
    The second time we went she was 9 months old.  Again we stayed at Fort
    Wilderness in the motorhome.  We also had a 15 month old with us he did
    NOT take naps in the stroller.  We were able to get from TMK by boat to
    Fort Wilderness for his afternoon nap.  The parks got a bit crowded
    then and we were ready for the break.  I liked being able to walk right
    out of the Park onto the boat and be right back at the campsite within
    what seemed to be minutes.  (NOTE:  on the days that you do the parks
    rent a Golf Cart and park by the marina.  Saves walking with small
    tired children)
    
    The third time we went down we stayed outside the park.  Samantha was
    14 months old and naps became a problem.  We were on International
    drive at the Quality Inn and the ride to the Parks was fairly short,
    except when you had an exhausted child.  I will never again stay
    outside the park with a small child that still naps during the day.
    
    As far as sleeping arrangements in the Hotel room, there were three
    adults and Samantha.  We set her crib up in the corner of the room away
    from the activity of the T.V.  She fell asleep at her normal time and
    we would sit outside the room in chairs until she was asleep.
    
    There were several other couples that would appear outside of their
    rooms at about the same time each night.  I approached one couple and
    sure enough they had a 3 and 5 year old they were trying to get to
    sleep.
    
    We are planning another trip in September and we have made reservations
    at the Polynesian.  It is very convenient to get on the monorail from
    the MK and buzz back to the room so the children can nap.  
    
    IMO, The Village Suites would probably meet your needs, as far as
    privacy for the 2 year old, but would it conveniently meet your needs
    for the nap schedule.  We had the worst time trying to get from TMK to
    Disney Village by bus.  You could drive your own car, but I have always
    hated getting Samantha all settled in her car seat, fall asleep, wake
    her up , then put her back down for her nap.  The nap is so broken up
    she doesn't get her needed rest and is tired much earlier in the
    evening.
    
    I apologize for the lengthy message, I could go on and on.  If you
    would like more information regarding some experiences we had with a
    small child contact me off-line.  I would welcome any new advice
    myself.
    
    
    Have fun, we did!
    Cheryl

We've been to WDW twice with our son.  the first time (when he was 6), we 
stayed in Fort Wilderness in one of the rented units -- he slept at one end 
and we slept at the other.  The second time, we stayed at the CBR and all slept 
in the same room.

 I was surprised to find that (at least at Disneyworld), it was not an 
inconvenience to share a room with a small child; after a day of "walking
around the world", we needed as much sleep as he did!!!!!!!

					Nigel

I pulled together a 6 day (5 night) itinerary for our trip to WDW.  I would
like to get some feedback on the attached from people who have travelled to
WDW with young kids (under 4 ??).  Is it a good schedule?  too aggressive? 
Am I missing anything?

The following is the schedule for the kids.  This schedule will be split up
between us and the grandparents.

Thanks for the feedback.  Hit Return to see the schedule.

+---+------------------------+------------------------+-----------------------+
|   |  MORNING               |  AFTERNOON             |  EVENING              |
+---+------------------------+------------------------+-----------------------+
|   |  8:40 AM  Depart       |  2:00 PM  Arrive	      | Swimming & Campfire   |
|10 |           Boston	     |           Orlando      | Program at Fort	      |
|   |                        |   Hotel Check-In	      | Wilderness 	      |
+---+------------------------+------------------------+-----------------------+
|   |                        |                        | Swimming & Marshmallow|
|11 |  Magic Kingdom         |  Magic Kingdom         | Marsh Excursion at    |
|   |  			     |  		      | Ft Wilderness 	      |
+---+------------------------+------------------------+-----------------------+
|   |  Minnie's Menehune     |                        |  Magic Kingdom 	      |
|12 |  Character Breakfast   |  Magic Kingdom         |  & an Early Bedtime   |
|   |  at Polynesian         |  		      |	                      |
+---+------------------------+------------------------+-----------------------+
|   |  MGM   Studios         |  MGM   Studios         | 5:00 PM Hoop de Doo   |
|13 |  			     |  		      | Review                |
|   |                        |  		      |	                      |
+---+------------------------+------------------------+-----------------------+
|   |                        |                        |                       |
|14 |  Sea World  	     |  Sea World 	      | Magic Kingdom	      |
|   |                        |                        |	                      |
+---+------------------------+------------------------+-----------------------+
|   |                        |  		      |  8:40 PM   Arrive     |
|15 |  Discovery Island	     |  3:15 PM  Depart	      |            Logan      |
|   |  with Kids             |           Orlando      |	                      |
+---+------------------------+------------------------+-----------------------+

    What is the law in Florida regarding car seats for toddlers?  Up until
    what age must a car seat be used?
    
    Also, any idea what the car rental companies charge per car seat per
    day?  Do the airlines allow you to check the car seats as baggage?
    
    Thanks

    

    Having recently done this myself, I will offer my opinion.   Let me
    preface it by saying that each child is different and only you know how
    your children will react to fatique, excitement, etc.
    
    A couple of things hit me right off.  First, its very nice that you
    have additional adults with you.  We found it a relief for everyone
    to be able to split the time.  My wife and I even got an evening out by
    ourselves. Which leads me to the next point.
    
    If it can be arranged, parents should have an evening out by themselves.  
    Its fun with the kids, but its nice to do something without them too. 
    
    My last note, the itinerary is a must, but also plan to be a bit
    flexible.  Take stock of the troops at the beginning of the day and
    check on them every so often. Make adjustments to your plans.  This is
    one reason why it is so important to have an idea of the attractions
    that you want to take in.  You can be sure to do those things first
    then if you have to adjust, you are sure not to be disappointed. Its not 
    too much fun making an itinerary if everyone is crying or too tired to 
    enjoy things.   
    
    Many months of the year the afternoons are very hot and very crowded in
    the parks. After a busy morning, fatigue begins to set in around lunch
    time. To counter this we did naps, swimming or both in the afternoons
    which helped recharge the batteries for some early evening activities. 
    We also tried to enforce a 9 PM bedtime so that we could be reasonably
    assured that the gang would be able to get up early for a good start on
    the day.
    
    Have a great time.

    re:.80
    
    National wants $5 per day for a car seat.
    
    We are taking our own to use on the airplane and in the rental.
    
    john (14 days)

    re: .78
    
    I think most of your schedule is ok.  I think your expectations
    for the first 3 days are reasonable.  Your last day looks pretty
    good too.  If you're going to have problems with tired/burned out
    children it looks like days 4 and 5 would be the days.
    
    On day 4, you have planned to spend the morning and afternoon at MGM.
    When we were there in May, MGM was PACKED during the afternoon.  Most
    attractions had at least a 45 minute wait and some of those lines
    were out in the sun.  If your children are early risers, I would
    plan to be at MGM as soon as it opens (possibly as early as 7:00)
    and plan to finish by noon or earlier to avoid the crowds.
    
    Day 5, Sea World, may just be a little long.  However, you may not
    spend all of the afternoon at Sea World.  We went in 1984 and were
    ready to leave by 2:00 or 3:00.  We had plenty of time to see all
    the big shows - Shamu, the dolphins, the seals, the sharks, the
    water ski show and a movie.
    
    I'm curious why you haven't planned to see Epcot.  Nicole (2 1/2)
    loved the Journey Into Imagination ride.  Kids also love the play
    area inside and the fountains outside.  Another great attraction
    for kids is the Kitchen Kabaret in The Land pavilion.  Most of the
    other Future World attractions are ok for kids.  Nicole doesn't
    mind the World of Motion, Horizons or Spaceship Earth.  There isn't
    too much to keep kids occupied in the World Showcase but Nicole loves
    the ride in the Mexico pavilion (has some dolls like It's a Small World
    and an equally annoying song) and didn't mind the movie in the France
    pavilion (you get to sit down for this one).
    
    My recommendations are to omit the MGM afternoon and go to Future
    World in Epcot if possible on day 4 and plan to leave Sea World in
    the early afternoon on day 5.
    
    Ruth

    Thanks to the previous replies.  I was unsure of how much to do in the
    5 or 6 day time frame.
    
    re: .83
    
    >>   I'm curious why you haven't planned to see Epcot.  Nicole (2 1/2)
    
    The last time my wife and I went to WDW was in 1982.  Epcot was open
    only for preview viewing, and we opted not to attend.  On the day that
    the kids are in Sea World with their Grandparents, my wife and I will
    be enjoying Epcot.  [We thought we'd be selfish for one of the days.  
    :-)  Also, the grandparents are babysitting on night 3 so that we can
    take in Pleasure Island.]
    
    Thanks Again.

  Re earlier note 22.80.
  
  I am not sure what the age limit is or even if one exists. However if your 
  child is too small for an adult belt then obviously he/she must have a 
  seat. Rental companies are a rip off so it is best to take your own. Normal 
  tubular steel seats are very heavy and cumbersome things to lug aroung 
  airports and although they can go as baggage they are liable to damage as 
  well as having to be accommodated within your weight allowance. We solved 
  the problem by buying a 2 piece polystyrene seat which utilises the adult 
  seat belt. These are easily available in the UK so I assume you have them 
  in America. The upright back section we carried in a suitcase. Although the 
  shape is awkward it is simple to pack clothes around it. We packed it so 
  that it was easily removed from the case at the car hire depot. The lower, 
  seat, section we carried as hand baggage and used it on the plane as a 
  booster seat. This allows the child to sit higher in the seat and also has 
  the added benefit of making the airline lap belt efective. As it is not 
  easy to repack a suitcase at the car hire firm we did not use the seat back 
  for the return journey to the hire place, simply using the booster seat 
  alone.
  
  Hope this helps.
  
  Robin from Warrington England.
  
   

    re: .80    My previous inquiries on car seats for kids.
    
    
    My quest for information led me to the last version of the parenting
    notes file  (HELPME::PARENTING_V2).  I found two related notes of interest
    on travelling with small children.  Note 364.*  covers travelling
    advice with children;  note 1988.* discusses using car seats on
    airplanes.
    
    Just hit <KP7> to add the parenting notesfile to your notebook.

    re: .84
    
    This is a clarification to .83.  I guess I was really asking why
    you aren't planning to have the kids visit Epcot.  MGM is a very
    nice park but many of the attractions were boring or frightening
    for Nicole.  I suggest staying with your current MGM plans with
    the option of leaving for Epcot if any problems arise.
    
    As for how much to do in the 5 or 6 day time frame...  I say go
    for whatever you think you can handle and back off if you need to.
    We usually start out with an agressive schedule and adjust it if
    Nicole has any problems.  She's one of those kids that doesn't
    sleep much so we've been able to schedule very long days at WDW.
    
    Have a great trip!
    Ruth

    I have a dilemma....
    
    What to do with three young kids (3-year olds) in the evening at WDW. 
    I had two evening planned at Fort Wilderness:  one night with the
    campfire program, and one night with the Marshmallow Marsh Excursion. 
    Due to the mosquito problem, they have discontinued these programs
    until the next cold snap.
    
    Any recommendations on how to fill up two evenings with kids?
    
    Thanks
    
    David

    David,
    
    I think it depends on what the kids like to do.  Assuming going to
    the parks is out of the question, there are a number of simpler
    things you can do.
    
    If the weather's ok and the mosquito problem doesn't seem too bad,
    I'd suggest going for a walk around the promenade at the Caribbean
    Beach Resort.  The walk takes some time plus there's a playground
    on an island near Old Port Royale.  One negative thing about WDW
    for kids is they don't get many opportunities to just play.  This
    would be a good chance for them to use up that extra energy.
    
    If the bugs are out around the CBR lagoon, you could try the
    playground at the Contemporary Resort and/or go inside to check out
    the sites.  Just riding the escalators can be fun for little ones.
    You can also go up to the top floor of the Contemporary to the
    observation deck and look at the Magic Kingdom.  One thing I like
    at the Contemporary is watching the guy play the piano - it's made
    of a clear material so you can see how it works.  You could also
    have dinner at the Character Cafe.  You don't need reservations.  We
    thought the buffet was great.
    
    If the kids can handle it, you might want to spend an evening at
    the shopping village.
    
    Another thing the kids might like is the Neverland Club (kind of a
    daycare place) at the Polynesian.  I'm not sure of the price and I
    think there are some restrictions such as the kids must be x years
    old and potty trained but I've heard kids really like it.
    
    Ruth

    Made a good observation at the MK this past week.  As discussed in
    other notes in this file, main street will typically open 1 hour prior
    to the park's official opening time.  Going early to get Diamond
    Horseshoe review tickets was one advantage to getting there early.  The
    other was that my kids got to see the characters (Minnie, Goofy, Pluto,
    Chip & Dale, Donald, Baloo the Bear, etc., etc.).
    
    With the official opening time for the park of 9:00 AM, it seems that
    the characters are on main street from 8AM until about 9:55 AM.  They
    do, of course take breaks, but there is a constant stream of characters
    in the main square.  The main benefit is that the crowd is VERY light,
    and the kids don't have to wait in line or contend with many other
    children to see the characters.  We did this twice, and enjoyed it both
    times.

I have a question which doesn't seem to have been covered elsewhere in this
note. Has anyone had experience taking very small children (4-5 months) to WDW?
We are particularly concerned about what to do with the kid in restaurants 
during our trip in Feb. 1991. The baby will most likely not be able to sit up in
a high chair when we go. Should we lug an infant seat all over the park, just so
we'll have it when we go into a restaurant, or do the full-service restaurants
(since we're doing a World Vacation Plan, those will be the only kind we go to)
provide infant seats in addition to high chairs?

    
    When we brought our three-month old daughter, we also brought our
    umbrella stroller.  When we went to the sit-down restaurants, we just
    brought the stroller in and set it up next to our table.  This was not
    only allowed, but encouraged as it helped keep the baby quiet.  She
    often would just sleep through the meal.  (Unfortunately, this won't
    work when they are older.)
    
    --Jay
    

    I'll be in Orlando next week to teach for Dec Seminar Services and plan
    to take my 4 1/2 year old daughter with me.  I'm coming down saturday
    and plan to take her to the Magic Kingdom on Sunday.  I'm looking for
    day care/sitting services for monday/tuesday/wednesday when I will be
    working/teaching at the Hotel Royal Plaza.  Any up-to-date info would
    be extreamly appreciated.  I'll check in here daily until friday night
    but would also appreciate any info being sent to me via mail to
    PHDVAX::MCGLINCHEY_J or internet address MCGLINCHEY_J@RSO.DNET.GE.COM
    (I'm on-site at GE in Philly).
    
    Thanks in advance,
    
    	John McGlinchey

    John, try calling the kindercare that is on DIsney property. Its over
    on the way from Disney to Buena Vista hotels.  I'm sure its listed in
    the phone book.
    
    

    Thanks, I'll give them a call.  I also got (via MAIL) a lead that the
    HILTON hotel in the Disney hotel plaza has nice day care setups.  I'm
    going to call them and find out.
    
    I'll leave notes after I get back about what I end up doing and costs.
    
    John

    Here is the complete list of what I found when I was there last week
    (Jan. '91) :
    
    A Choice Nanny		351-6001
    ALLCARE Sitter Svc		767-9556
    Fairy Godmother		277-3724
    Hire-a-mom			628-4822
    Mothers Sitting Svc		857-7447	$6/Hr Cash, No extr chgs
    Nanny Placement Ctr		260-0031  	Visa/MC
    Super Sitters		740-5516	$7/Hr Cash, $5 Travel fee
    The Source			894-9970
    
    Most services wanted cash only, no checks, no credit cards, with the 
    exception of the Nanny Placement Ctr, they were booked solid!  
    
    The Hilton does have a Kids center for evening care, $6 per kid from 6
    PM until midnight, overnight care is available for extra.
    
    All services were licensed and trainged (first aid, etc.).  I used
    Mothers and the sitter was very nice, on-time every day, very flexible.
    

I've already made dinner reservations for the 5pm show of the Hoop-De-Doo Review
on the day we arrive, but it's early enough to change them.

Is it a good idea to do this on the arrival day?  My motivation is that my
nephew won't be worn out that day (we'll be driving from Ft. Lauderdale), and
therefore he'll be in a good mood to enjoy the show.  It should also put us all
in a good mood to head back to the hotel, go to sleep early, and get an early
start.  Obviously I should check with his parents to see if they agree, but
what do you folks think?

   Gary

    Unless you have planned a very short visit to WDW and are pressed for
    time, I wouldn't do the Hoop on the first night.

    For me, the first day at WDW is usually a very stressful and exciting
    one, you have to check-in, get settled in the hotel room, get to the
    park, etc.  Why compound matters by having to leave whichever theme
    park you're at that day by 3:30-4:00 to make sure you get to Pioneer
    Hall before 4:45 for seating.

    I usually try to schedule the HDDR for a day when we are not going to a
    theme park, or at least a middle-of-the-trip day, when the initial
    excitement of rushing to see everything in the park wears off.

    Another suggestion, (as long as I'm throwing my opinions around here):
    Since the drive from Ft. Lauderdale is close to four hours, why not
    drive up the night before.  We have done this on our last two trips,
    (leaving from between West Palm and Ft. Lauderdale), and it worked out
    very well.  We left right after supper, about 7:00, and arrived before
    11:00, staying in a $30 motel on 192.  That way we were able to check-in
    at WDW first thing in the morning, and have a whole day there.

    Gary,
    
    I have to agree with Len. I recall a friend telling me the only thing
    she did not like about WDW was Hoop-Dee-Doo. I found out that she had 5 
    P.M. reservations the day they arrived and it was practically the first
    thing they did. Fatigue played a factor.
    
    I'm with Len about scheduling it in the middle of the trip. I would
    still push for a 5 P.M. show.
    
    Mike

Hmm.  I guess I was assuming last years travel arrangements, when we 
arrived about 12:30pm, registered, ate, spent the afternoon shopping around 
Disney Village, and went for an early dinner; no theme parks on day 1.  It wasn't
at all a hectic day, though perhaps it wasn't as productive as it could have 
been.  We didn't mind waiting a day to get to the parks, but I can see how that
might be different with a child.

I'll pass Len's idea about driving up the night before by my mother and brother.
I usually drive back south at night, so I have no problem with night driving.
We're actually starting from Deerfield Beach, between Ft. Lauderdale and 
West Palm, so our driving times should be comparable to Len's.

Thanks for the advice.  Now I have to decide whether to do HDDR on one of the
middle days (presumably not the Universal Studio Day), or perhaps on the last
day, before we drive home.

   Gary  

        One of the common complaints about EPCOT is that World
        Showcase does not appeal strongly to kids, where as adults
        like to spend time there.

        About 2 or 3 months ago Disney began selling a new "World
        Passport" that helps keep the kid's interest (at least ours). 
        The passport looks like a regular passport book that would be
        issued by a nation.  Inside the book there are 2 pages for
        each country with places for stickers, a validation stamp, and
        notes.  You get 11 sheets of stickers (one for each country)
        each of which has 6 stickers.

        The idea is that you take your passport from country to
        country, put in the stickers, have the people at the country
        validate your passport with an inked stamp, and have them
        write you a note in the language of that country.  The
        validation stations are in the stores, usually (but not
        always) in the back store.

        The kids really liked doing this and wanted to make sure that
        we visited all of the countries to complete the book.  They
        are already asking if we could do it again next time we go to
        WDW.

        If you want to visit World Showcase, but are worried about the
        kids, you might want to spend the few bucks and get one of
        these.  I can't remember the exact price, but it was between
        $5 and $10.  The kit includes the passport, 11 pages of
        stickers (the type you peel; not lick), and a "World Traveler"
        badge.
    

    That is a nice touch - but I seem to recall that on our visit in
    '85, there was a similar passport which could be stamped.  It was
    free for the asking at the information booth below Spaceship Earth,
    Earth Station?.  
    
    Thanks for the info, something else to be prepared for on our next
    visit.
    
    peter

    One of the people told us about the old free passport that was
    discontinued several years ago.  This sounds like the one you are
    talking about.
    
    That person told us that the new system is a significant improvement
    over the old except that it is no longer free. I cannot comment since I
    never saw the old one.

    Can anyone fill me in on the type of strollers in the Magic Kingdom and
    Epcot?  Do they fold back so the KIDS can lie down or are they like
    umbrella strollers?  We have a rather large stroller and I'd rather not
    lug it around all day but the child is gong to need a nap and hope he
    can sleep in the rentals.  Any insight would be helpful.  Thanks in
    advance.
    
    Steve  
    
    37-more-days-to-Adventure 

    Rep to <<< Note 22.104 by TPSYS::ESPOSITO >>>

    Steve,
    
    The strollers  are heavy duty, they include a sun shade, the back folds
    down to allow  the  toddler  to  sleep,  plus there is a basket for the
    diaper bag/camera bag etc.
    
    Plus if your going offsite,  Seaworld also strollers (shaped like Shamu
    but no basket?), not sure about Universal though.
    
    Claude

    Just a note:  The strollers at MGM are different.  These are not heavy
    duty and don't recline.  They are lightweight and colapse easy.  I 
    am sure this is for the convienence of taking it on the tour.
    

    We hired a Disney stoller, for our 4 year old last year, to take some
    of the strain from walking everywhere. She was too big to lie down
    completely, but curled her legs up. The base is only thin 1/2 inch
    thick though, so not very comfortable.
    
    Richard

    Hi,
    
    My family is going to Disney World in November.  Yeah, I know it's
    a long way away, but planning is part of the fun.  
    
    Does anyone have any experiences with the Neverland Club at the Poly?
    We were thinking of sending the kids (ages 8 and 5) there while the 
    grownups play at "Top of the World".
    
    Also, we were wondering how security was handled at the "Neverland
    Club" as far as making sure the "right" kids go home with the "right
    parents".
    
    
    Thanks in advance.
    
    Jeff

RE: .108

    Take a look at note 140.*,  there is some info there.
    
    We used it once for my son while the rest of us went to the HDD.  He
    had a great time.  It is great if you have only one child, but can get
    real expensive if you have several (no multi-child discount).
    
    As far as security, I really can't remember how they did it.  They
    probably won't let you take the child unless he/she is crying and
    screaming:
    
    	Please Dad, Please Mom, can't I stay longer...   :^)
    

    Our kids (5 & 8, both girls) loved the place.  It was $7/hr per
    child, so a little expensive.  As for security, they check your
    resort ID card when you pick up the kids.  When you go, be sure
    to walk around inside; neat place.

    Anyone have a price quote on stroller rentals?
    

Is it safe to bring your own stroller?   Are some of the parks safer
than others?

We rented one at Disneyland last year, and it disappeared on us.  It was
easy to get a new one (although I hated having to walk back to do so),
but I was thinking our own stroller might be more convenient for the
baby (expected to be about 6 months old for the trip).

If we do decide that it would be too dangerous to bring our own stroller,
then is there an easy way to tell which is ours?  I understand a lot of
people use the red yarn method now.

      Carol

    We have taken our double stroller to WDW once and DL twice and have
    never had a problem. 
    
    It is always a good idea to "distinguish" a rental stroller by either
    tying something conspicuous to the handle or leaving some stuff
    (probably not a good idea to leave real valuables, though) in it. 

    We have used our own stroller but find that in the long run it is
    easier to rent them.  Since we started tying a ribbon with a name tag 
    to our and have never lost it.  We found that using your own stroller,
    especially if you have a big one, is a pain when getting on and off of
    busses, boats, skyrides, etc.

     If your stroller is the folding umbrella type then you should 
     definitely take it. If your toddler is asleep on leaving the park 
     its nice not to have to give the stroller back in at the 
     entrance. I would never not take a stroller into a park.
     
     Robin from Warrington

    We just got back and I would not want to be there without a folding
    umbrella stroller. Our son, who is almost 2 and a half years old,
    finally crashed in his (he missed the fireworks) after about 3 full
    days of morning to park closing (10pm). We were able to board the
    monorail and get to our room in the Contemporary without taking him
    out of his stroller. They prefer that you take the child out and fold
    up the stroller but they really don't hassle you if you don't.
    The one draw back is that the stroller we have is not 100% vinyl and
    did take a while to dry out after the traditional afternoon showers.
    This problem was resolved with the purchase of a child's rain poncho
    which could be draped over him and/or the stroller.
    The stroller was a life saver when waiting for bus transportation at
    MGM and the Disney Village.   

    I am planning a trip there in late March this year any my two
    daughters will be 4 year old and 8 months old.  I was there 3 years
    ago with our 1 year old.  She loved it, but fell asleep.  Luckily
    my brother and sister were there and could watch her while we went
    on some of the rides.  (Without someone to watch them, it might prevent
    you from going on some of the rides.)
    
    Overall, we had a blast watching our 1 year old jump right out of her
    stroller when Mickey came walking by.  It also slowed us down a bit
    which we didn't mind since the park is so huge.  We got there about
    9:00 am and stayed until 7:00 pm. 
    
    Some other info you need:  They have what they call 'baby-stations'
    set up around the park.  Basically these have:
    
    	- air conditioning
    	- changing tables
    	- high chairs
    	- juices available for purchase
    
    These were unexpected, we kind of just wandered into one but boy were
    we glad we found one.  Your kids should have a blast!

      1) Take your own strollers, preferably the folding type. This 
      will make it far easier to get sleeping children back to the car. 
      Also make sure that at least the younger child has a sun canopy.
      
      2) Make use of your stroller's carrying capacity to smuggle in a 
      few illicit goodies for the children, especially juice, otherwise 
      the children will bankrupt you.
      
      3) Make use of the facility on some rides closed to small 
      children where you can queue together then one of you waits with 
      the kids whilst the other rides and then change places.
      
      

    Ruth Lowell may be able to shed some opinions on small kids at WDW.
    
    I personally think that it's best to take the kids when they are
    
               - out of diapers
               - out of strollers
               - Disneyholics
    
    Some small children are frightened at a huge Mickey approaching them. 
    
    Also, the younger they are the less likely they are to remember the
    trip.
    
    I always suggest that people consider the ages 5-7 for their child's
    first visit to WDW. Waiting will make the trip all that more enjoyable
    for everyone.
    
    Mike

    I agree with Mike. Five years old is probably the youngest age
    where a child would really enjoy the experience.
    
    The first time I went to Disneyland as a child, I had just turned
    5 years old - my parents drove from Seattle to Anaheim where we
    spent two days at Disneyland. 
    
    I barely remember anything except for getting rammed on the Autopia
    by my older brother's car, seeing Dopey (from the Seven Dwarfs) walking
    around dropping confetti everywhere, wanting desperately to meet 
    Winnie the Pooh and when I did I was terrified, The Journey to Inner
    Space being closed (I really wanted to shrink), and seeing Tinkerbell
    fly through the sky from the Matterhorn to the Castle.
    
    

    
    
    
      October  1987 - One child 2 /12 years old. He loved it!
    
      October  1989 - Two Children 4 1/2 & 1. Disney cruise, "Big Red Boat"
                  Again, they loved it!
    
      July     1991 - Two Children 6 & 2 1/2. Great time!
    
      August   1992 - Three Children 7, 3 1/2 & 4 months. Best time ever!
    
    
             

    My son's first trip was at 3 years old. My daughters first trip was at
    1. They are now 9 and 4 respectively and have been to WDW at least once
    a year since their first trip. 
    
    I wouldn't change a thing. If you could see the videos of my one year
    old laughing and dancing and hugging the characters you would have to
    agree that she was not to young. Yes young kids slow you down a bit,
    but you can plan around that. We have always stayed in the park, easy 
    access with sleepy kids. My son was scared of the dark at three so he
    didn't get much use of the attractions but he did enjoy the atmosphere.
    Also it prepared him for the next trip, which he was fine.
    
    Don't hesitate to take your kids. It just keeps getting better.
    
    ja

    
    My son and daughter were both under a year on their first trips (in '82
    and '84) and have been many times since.  At each age, they react
    differently, but they always love something.  Their reactions, and the
    looks on their faces, are priceless and are the main reasons we keep
    going back.
    
    If you miss seeing your child at WDW (especially the MK) at age 2, or
    3, or 4, etc, it is gone forever.  Although very young children may not
    remember the trip, you will.  And you will treasure your memories.
    
    Go.
    
    --Jay
    

    Go for it. Our son has been there twice and he won't be 3 until the end
    of March. When he gets older he may not remember much but we will both
    remember the time he dashed out of his stroller and gave Dale his
    Mickey Mouse Painter's hat to wear. Bring your own stroller(s) if at
    all possible and goodies for them to eat and drink [in the diaper bag]
    it will help to keep money in your pockets for important things like 
    extending your stay. They might not remember much, but you won't forget
    anything. Writing this made me think of a good birthday present for
    Kevin, because we are a mere 9 hours by car from WDW and our AP's are 
    still good and we have relatives in the area another reason to go.
    
    

    I've mentioned this somewhere before in this file - we took our
    daughter at 18 months and again at 3 years.   The first time we went
    specifically to RELAX and enjoy the resort - DW is a great place for
    families travelling with small children because the World is ready and
    waiting for them - they're welcome in restaurants, there's activities
    for all ages, etc.  
    
    The second time we went we accomplished a lot more of DW, but still our
    main priority was to relax and enjoy our time together as a family.
    
    My suggestion for someone travelling with little
    ones (even four years old) is don't overdo it - take your time and
    consider this trip one of many to come (even if it won't be for many
    years...) 
    
    If you try to see Disney the way some of the folks in this file do by 
    filling every available waking hour your kids will be tired, cranky 
    and you'll all be miserable.    
    
    

    I have two sons, and I want to know at what age is a good time to take
    them to Walt Disney World?
    
    I know now is not the right time, they are 3 3/4 and 20 months old.
    
    I would like to hear from other parents who have taken 2 children to
    WD and how was your experience with them and their ages.
    
    Thanks,
    
    Lynne

    I know there has been questions like this before, but I'll field it
    anyway.  (Mod.  Pls feel free to move this, thanks).
    
    In my mind it has alot to do with the "hassle factor".  How much hassle
    can you put up with to make it worth seeing your childs face light up
    over the wonders of Disneyworld.  Hmmmmm. 
    
    I've taken kids aged 1 to 14 and they have all enjoyed it.  With your
    kids ages now, they both would enjoy the trip, but they would not
    remember the trip.  How important is this to you?  Can you go again
    sometime in the future so that they will remember it?   We have
    recently decided that we will go again in '95.  That is when our
    youngest will be 5.  Just before school age and old enough to walk to
    most everything without being carried.
    
    If you do decide to go soon, consider taking along a babysitter!
    
    
    Good luck,
    
    John
    

    John has pretty much said the important things to consider.
    
    This should be a vacation for you too and "hassle Factors" must be
    considered.
    
    Everyone sees this differently and ultimately you have to decide on
    your own. I personally think 5 to 6 is a good age to start.
    
    mike

We're going next week with our 4 year old and 7 month old.
We went 3 years ago with the 10 month old who loved it.

Here's something to think about: Children under 3 are FREE!

		
				:^)

         Tomorrow may never come; go for it.
         
         Robin from Warrington

    re: .127
    >I have two sons, and I want to know at what age is a good time to take
    >them to Walt Disney World?
    >
    >I know now is not the right time, they are 3 3/4 and 20 months old.
    
    Do you plan to go to WDW only once?  If so then you may want to wait
    until the kids are older so they'll be able to enjoy and remember
    more of it.  Otherwise, take them as soon as you feel like taking the
    trip.  Read through the other notes in this topic to get ideas about
    what kinds of things you'll need to consider when planning your trip.
    Once you know what you're up against - such as waiting in line,
    attractions which require a longer attention span, renting strollers,
    etc. - then you can decide when it is best for you to go.  No one but
    you will be able to make that decision.  You know your children best
    and also know what inconveniences you as a parent will want to deal
    with while on vacation.
    
    >I would like to hear from other parents who have taken 2 children to
    >WD and how was your experience with them and their ages.
    
    I've taken two or more children to WDW multiple times.  In my opinion,
    it isn't so much the ages of the children that matters.  It's the
    their general behavior that will give you a good idea of how your
    trip will go.  Any inappropriate behavior will be magnified at WDW.
    For example, if your children can't tolerate waiting in line (or
    don't understand the concept of waiting for their turn) then you
    can plan on spending hours standing in line with cranky, whiny brats.
    
    Ruth

    Our trip is still almost a year away but I figure I'll start asking
    these kinds of questions now... :-)
    
    Katie will only be 2 when we go next Spring so a stroller is definitely
    in order.  I was wondering about taking our own stroller into the parks
    and what problems we might face.  It'd be an umbrella-type stroller
    that folds up easily.
    
    Does WDW allow you to take these kinds of strollers on the WDW Express
    RR??  What about on the skyway??  And how 'bout in some of the sit-down
    "show" attractions like the Country Bears??
    
    And I guess the same kind of questions apply to EPCOT's ride-through
    pavilion like Spaceship Earth and World of Motion...
    
    I guess I'm looking for folks' advice on bringing your own vs. renting.
    
    Thanks,
    - Skip

    Skip,
    
    For the last four years we have always rented. The strollers you get
    at MK and EC are nice due to the fact that they fold down for naps. the
    stroller at MGM is the umbrella type that can be taken on the
    attractions.
    
    As for MK and EC I don,t think they allow any type of strollers on
    the attractions.
    
    John

    I've used the rentals when David was younger.  They provide a cover for
    shade and fold down nicely for when the child falls asleep.  There is
    always an area provided for strollers as well.
    
    I'd go for the rental.
    
    Kathy
    

    We've always taken our own, worked out just fine.  Many attraction/
    rides require leaving outside, there's often a "parking lot" by the
    entrance which is often overseen by a cast member.  We folded it
    up to get on Skyway rides where we wanted to take it with us.  I
    liked having our own as we could pick it out easily in the crowd
    of rented strollers, plus we didn't take any extra time to rent
    or return.   

    We've done both and found bringing our own umbrella style to be
    the best option.  One advantage is you can bring the umbrella style
    strollers on the train and on the skyway.  But the biggest advantages
    for us are:
      1. being able to load the kid(s) into the stroller(s) as soon as you
         get off the monorail.
      2. being able to leave the kid(s) in the stroller(s) on the ferry.
      3. being able to use the stroller(s) at the resorts.
    
    The main disadvantage for us is neither of our umbrella strollers can
    be reclined.  There doesn't seem to be any advantage/disadvantage to
    having a sunshade - we've got one of each.  An advantage for the
    rentals is the canopy is sturdy enough to place lightweight bags on.
    
    Our plans for our next trip are to bring the umbrella stroller with
    the sunshade for our two year old to use and to rent a stroller for
    the five year old as needed since she's getting too big for the
    umbrella strollers.
    
    I'd recommend bringing your umbrella stroller at least for use
    around the resorts.  If it doesn't work out at the parks you can
    always rent instead.

    Thanks for the stroller comments, folks.  Seeing as we just bought an
    umbrella stroller, we'll bring that down with us and use that instead
    of renting.
    
    And Ruth, I'm glad to see that you're going down with a two-year-old
    again...  Is that a prerequisite for your WDW trips?? :-) :-)  Anyways,
    I'm already anxiously awaiting your trip report...
    
    - Skip

    ...and I'm sure Ruth is anxiously awaiting her trip!

    This is a very naive question for you "vets", but I will be going to
    Florida next month with my almost 4-year-old, and plan to visit WDW.
    I've read all the notes here, and I'm still a bit confused.  He is very
    intrepid (saw Jurrasic Park 2 times so far, and never once turned away
    or covered his eyes), loves amusement park rides (rollercoasters and
    ferris wheels), so I'm not concerned about a "fear factor".  But I have
    never been there, and I haven't got a clue as to the difference between
    all the different "lands".  Which "land" is most appropriate for his
    age?  I understand there is a separate fee depending on which place you
    plan to visit? Or am I way off here?  We plan on staying only 1 day, so
    which would give us the best value and most age-appropriate way to go?
    Sarah

    Here is my opinion - 
    
    If you have only one day - I'd take him to the Magic Kingdom -
    
    There are great rollercoaster rides (since he likes them) as well as
    wonderful rides for young kids.  I think he'd get a little of
    everything there.
    Also, if Jurrasic Park wasn't a problem for him - the Haunted Mansion
    will be a piece of cake.
    
    (actually you can't "really" see all of MK in one day but that is where
    I'd start)
    
    Kathy
    

    Two years and two trips ago when when my son was 3 1/2, his favorite 
    park was...
    
    TYPHOON LAGOON!!!!!,
    
    but his second favorite was the Magic Kingdom.
    
    I'd go for the MK as well.
    
    Cheers,
    Ken
    

    I agree that if you're only spending one day, it should be at the Magic
    Kingdom.  If you're asking if you should spend more time in Fantasy
    Land versus Tomorrow Land versus Frontier Land ... well that depends.
    Since he's not frightened of "scary stuff," I'd say you should plot
    the "must sees," rather than pick a land and stay in it.
    
    *My* "must sees:"
    
    Pirates of the Carribean
    Space Mountain
    Splash Mountain
    Big Thunder Mountain Railroad
    Haunted Mansion
    3-D flick (forgot what it's called)
    Star Jets (okay, I'm wierd!)
    Mad Hatter's Tea Party
    Tiki Room (I know, I know!)
    Jungle Cruise
    
    If you're staying after dark in the park, I'd include Swiss Family
    Robinson Tree House (but only after dark!).
    
    My 10-year-old nephew's list includes all those plus:
    
    Small World
    Mr. Toad's Wild Ride
    20,000 Leagues Under the Sea
    Tom Sawyer Island
    (Oh, it *doesn't* include Space Mountain)
    Dumbo
    
    My nieces - 5 and 8 - would include:
    
    Mission to Mars (!)
    Wedway People Mover (!)
    (Plus some of mine and some of my nephew's.)
    
    I'd get a map of the Magic Kingdom and plot a course.  "Must eat at" 
    restaurants are up for grabs!  I'd do Tony's for breakfast or lunch,
    but not for dinner (I *love* the Lady and the Tramp waffles!).  The
    restaurant note has more on that.
    
    
    Good luck,
    Susan
    

    I believe there are height limits on some of the rides (Splash Mt. and
    Space Mt. come to mind...) so don't get your son psyched about these
    rides if he's under 4'.
    
    

    Don't forget Mickey's Starland!

    Forgot about the height limits - tall nieces and nephews, as well as
    older.  And I knew I was leaving one out, Mike!  Mickey's Starland is
    loved by all three.

    Here are the restrictions I can think of:
    
    Rides with height restrictions:               Child swap:
    -------------------------------               -----------
    Space Mountain                  44"           Yes
    Splash Mountain                 44"           Yes
    Thunder Mountain                40"           ?
    
    Bermuda Triangle (Sea World)    42"           ?
    
    Back to the Future (Universal)  40"           Yes
    Hanna-Barbera (Universal)       40"           No - small children ride
                                                  in stationary seats
    
    Rides with age restrictions:                  Child swap:
    ----------------------------                  -----------
    Star Tours     age 3                          Yes
    Body Wars      age 3                          Yes

    What's "Child Swap?"  I can think of a few days when I would have
    swapped him for another model, but can't imagine WDW would condone that
    kind of thing : )
    
    Sarah

    >What's "Child Swap?"
    
    A "child swap" allows all the people in your group to go on a ride
    without having to wait in line more than once.  Basically what happens
    is the entire group waits in line, including the child(ren) who can't
    ride.  When it comes time to ride, part of the group goes on while
    the rest of the group waits with the child(ren).  After the ride ends,
    the child(ren) is given to whoever just went on the ride and then the
    rest of the party goes on the ride.
    
    The swaps are handled differently depending on the attraction so it's
    best to tell the attendant when you get in line to make sure you do
    the right thing.
    
    Cheaters tip for bypassing the line at Splash Mountain:  To do a child
    swap on Splash Mountain, the people riding first go through the line
    and the ones waiting with the child(ren) go to the exit area (near the
    monitors which show the photos).  After the first riders exit, the
    second riders tell the attendant at the exit they are doing a child
    swap.  The attendant then tells you to walk up the exit path to where
    they load/unload the logs.
    
    A party of one or two people can easily get away with walking up to
    the exit area and telling the attendant they are doing a child swap.
    There's usually a crowd waiting around the monitors so it would be
    very hard for them to tell you weren't really part of a group.

At Disneyland's Splash Mountain, the attendant at the entrance gives the
adult (who is staying with the child not riding) a card.  The card has the
instructions about child swap.  When the first parent/group exits, the second
adult is allowed the enter using the exit and may take one other person on the
ride.  

I've haven't decided which way I like better.  The hand-off method is a little
quicker.  But when the line is long, the child can play somewhere else.

Also there were times when the child is sleeping so the card method is a
definite advantage because strollers aren't allowed in lines.

    
    I'm taking a 2yr 8mo old to Disney next week. Given Disney's tight
    reign on a buck, 
    
    	Does Disney need prove that my daughter is under 3?
    
    She's rather tall and well spoken. I'd like not to have any hassles 
    about her age.
    
    Bob

    We have never been questioned about our children's ages.  Last trip
    down was just AFTER my son's 3rd birthday.  I confess that we did not
    purchase a ticket for him.  This was at the urging of my Floridian
    sister in law who still was not purchasing admission for a 4 year old.
    We went in several parks a day for a week without any problem.

    I bought a 5 day Super Duper Pass for my 3 year old.  He was born
    August 13th 1990, so as of last week when we were there he was
    3 yrs and 50 days old.
    
    We were there for 8 days, but had two days left over on some old
    tickets for myself, my wife, and my older son.  I tried to trade in
    the two days left on the child ticket for TWO one day tickets. No can
    do !  I asked if I could just have them stamp the ticket twice. No can
    do !  I asked how much for a 1 day child ticket ? $30.00.  So, the
    WDW lady told me "If I were you I would just go on in and tell them
    he is under three ."  I was a little unsure, but figured I might as
    well try it.  Sure enough, no questions asked.  I just breezed right
    through.  Makes me wonder why I paid $130+ for a 5 day Super Duper
    Pass.
    
    Don

    We just got back from FLorida with 1 day at WDW (Magic Kingdom only).
    Our almost-4-year-old had the time of his life.  No lines, no waiting,
    and we did some of them twice because there were no lines!  He
    especially loved the Haunted Mansion, so that was a 3-timer.  Some of
    the attractions were closed, but he didn't notice.  Small World,
    Mission To Mars, Hall of Presidents, Dumbo's ride were all closed, but
    who cares when you can ride "Pirates" and the Jungle Cruise as many
    times as you like!!!!  Definitely the best time of year to go. Thanks
    for all the help in this file.  Our day went off without a hitch, and
    we were armed with the best information possible (especially about
    renting the stroller : ).
    Sarah

    I just picked up a copy of the 1994 edition of the Unofficial Guide to
    Walt Disney World. There is a section, about 40 pages long, dealing
    specifically with Walt Disney World with Kids. Many of the tips in
    the book are also located in this file, but they are in one convenient
    place. Discussions include situations where small children are likely 
    to be separated from their parents, fright factors of various
    attractions, disappointment that Mickey is not waiting at the gate, 
    touring tips, and more. 
    
    Price is $13 US, and the book is 538 pages long. IMO it should be used 
    along with Birnbaum to get balanced opinions, since the Unofficial 
    Guide has no ties to WDW. 
    
    Linda

Some friends of mine went down to WDW last week for my godson Chris' second
birthday (party at Chef Mickey's, they said it was great!) and his first time
at WDW. Knowing that traveling with a two year old can be quite an experience 
I looked up this topic before they left and made some notes for them to read
on the plane. Anyway I thought I would pass along what happened. 

Chris started to get sick on the way from the airport to Dixie Landings, by
midnight he was pretty ill. Remembering the notes I had made from this topic 
they called down to the desk to ask for a doctor. The receptionist said that 
the doctor on call had left for the night but that if things really got bad 
they would send a limo (I'm sure they meant a van) to take him to the emergency
room. They tried putting him to bed but he wouldn't go to sleep in his crib so
they put him in their bed. About two in the morning Chris "hurled". They called
down for clean sheets which arrived in less than ten minutes. They cleaned up
and went back to bed.

At seven o'clock in the morning, without them having made any other call to the
desk, the doctor showed up at the door saying "I hear we have sick little
camper on our hands." He looked Chris over and prescribed an antibiotic which
he called in. Denise asked the doctor if it would be alright to take Chris to
the park that day and he said "Sure, just keep him off Body Wars!"

A courier from a local pharmacy arrived in about an hour with the medication.
Because it was a liquid it needed to be kept cool so they filled the ice bucket
and put the bottle inside. When they got back from the park, the room had been
cleaned and to their shock the ice bucket was empty! Shock turned to surprise
when they found a refrigerator with the medicine inside. All of this took place
with just one phone call in the middle of the night!

While the doctor was looking at Chris, Denise called the maid to get a clean
blanket and mattress pad for the bed. About a half hour later two maids show up,
not with the requested bed clothes but with a new bed!

Now the bad news. The doctor was expensive and his fee was added to their
bill. It will be covered by their insurance but they still had to pay for it 
out of pocket with their vacation money. The medication was not covered by 
their prescription plan so they had to pay full price plus a $5 delivery 
charge. The refrigerator however was free.

Chris got better quickly and they enjoyed the rest of the week. He was not at
all affraid of the characters and got a big kick out of the rides (no, they
did not try Body Wars :-)

What saved their vacation was the great way they were treated by all the
people at Dixie Landings. What could have been a ruined vacation was saved
by thoughtful and caring people and a big healthy dosage of Disney Magic.

Denise, Ray, and Chris would like me to thank the members of this conference 
as well for providing all the useful information they needed. 

    We will be at Disney World April 17,18,19th.  I am traveling with two
    small children ages 3 and 1.  Can someone offer some suggestions as to
    the best way to enjoy the MK in our situation? What is the availablity
    of strollers, best times to visit, where to eat, activities best suited
    for the kids etc. It has been years since we have been to MK and
    certainly not under current situation. We are NOT staying in the park,
    but only a mile or two away.  Thanks in advance for any info.
    		Dave
    
    SVCRUS::DALTON
    223-9429
    
            

    We just returned with my sisters two kids (same ages as you note), we
    didn't "hang" with them too much because it was too restrictive for my
    two kids (ages 7 and 9).  May I suggest bringing a comfy stoller for
    the baby to sleep in and renting ($6/day w/ a $1disney buck rebate) one
    for the older child.  Also - hang out at Mickey's Starland awhile, ride
    trains, visit It's a Small World, etc.  Stay away from Pirates, Snow
    White, Haunted, etc.  Epcot would be comfortable for the little ones,
    too.  MGM has Muppets, Honey I shrunk play area, etc.
    
    Personally, I'm glad I didn't bring my own kids down when they were
    that small.  It is really draining on the parents and you won't be able
    to share the adult rides with your companion, because someone has to
    stay with the kids.
    
    Also, may I suggest a wrist tether for the walker.  My niece walked
    away from dad at one point and scared the bejeebers out of him.  They
    immeidately bought a tether and made her wear it.  Worked very well,
    too!
    
    -sandy
    

    Check out notes 22.*, 140.* and 146.*.  Enjoy,   John

    Went with two kids (my girlfriends, girl 4 boy 5)
    
    This is from the kids perspective.
    
    Loved the build up and mono rail ride in also the walk down main
    street. Disney Infrastructure is the best.  After that got very bored.  
    Big differences about what they would go on so lots of standing around
    
    Favourite ride was haunted house which looks much scarier than it is.
    Took a while to get them to go on it but then we had to go on it five
    times.
    
    Also likes
    
    Peter Pan (3)
    Small World  (2)
    Meeting characters (but had to queue for 3/4 hr to meet Mickey).
    Show in the Micky tent
    Beauty and the beast show (but why don't they cover that area)
    
    Didnt like
    
    Pirates
    
    Didnt want to go on or couldnt go on any of the big rides.
    
    Tip one - Don't buy a 4 day pass straight away. Buy a one day pass and
    you can upgrade if you think its going to be worth it.  We were
    planning to get a 4dp but were glad we didnt.
    
    Tip two - take a stroller per child
    
    Tip three - take a box full of drinks
    
    Tip four - Don't go in April. While it is the off season the parks
    opening hours are very limited. It is still too hot to stand around
    between 11:00 and 4:00 so you either have to suffer or lose half your
    day. Disney don't seem to like shade.  For us the best (ie happy) times
    were early morning and late evening.  
    
    Tip five - These Kids much preferred Sea World and Busch 
    (we did a second day at both). Sea World has been pushed very strongly
    in the UK recently and the film Free Willy probably also influenced.
    Also there was much more to see and the animals were real. Plus if you
    want the real scarry rides you have to go to Busch !.
    
    
    
    
    
    

    Sorry forgot this point:-
    
    The absolute high point for them was wet and wild. We had big howls
    when it closed in the evening and we had to go home. 
    Also tired them out completely so went to sleep straight away. 
    I'd recomend this to anyone with small kids. 
    Watch for the sunburn tho'
      

    Does Disney still have the policy that Resort Guests can use the
    facilities at any of the Disney Resorts (with the exception of the
    pool at Y&BC and GF)?  
    
    We are going to be staying at Fort Wilderness and I would like to
    try out the pools at some of the other resorts.  I read elsewhere
    in this notesfile that the pools at CBR and PO are good for kids.
    Are there other ones as well?
    
    Thanks for any information on which pools are good for kids.

    
    
    I don't see what would stop you other than getting from point A to
    point B...  At the CBR we weren't asked for any ID when we went to the
    pool...   We didn't try any others, but I think I would have like to
    have gone to the PO pool for a spin...   I don't know how the other 
    Resorts handle it though...
    
    
    John
    

I'm sure this is in the conference somewhere, but I couldn't find it 
based on keywords or titles.

I have a 7, 4, and 1 year old.  I'm debating between going to 
WDW this spring (without the 1 year old), or next spring with
all three (8, 5, 2 at that time).  

Is 4 too young to enjoy/remember most things? 

I'd like to hear from folks who travel with kids about these
ages...

- Craig

    
    
    Our 4 year old hasn't forgotten!  He was actual 3 1/2, and our other
    just shy of 2 yrs - whenever anything comes on TV or he sees something
    in a magazine with Disney - he gets very excited and says - 'Hey, we
    were there..."  it's been about 9 months, but no loss of memory yet.
    
    Of course we also plan on going again in a couple of years... to make
    sure they don't forget! (or that we don't ;-))
    
    FWIW: I saw plenty of 1 year olds when we were there - 
    
    
    
    John
    

We've been to WDW several times with our kids ages from
1 thru 16. They all loved it. The only thing to keep in mind is
that you will need to be flexible with the littlest ones so that
they don't get too exhausted trying to keep up with a too
aggresive schedule. We always just "played it" as the circumstances
and moods permitted at the time.

If we missed something we came back later or did something different.

Doug

    for what it's worth....
    
    My daughter was 18 months old the first time we took her to WDW.  She
    still remembers....we took her for the 4th time last fall (she is going
    to be 4 next month) and she knew what rides she wanted to go on, etc. 
    Again, be aware that NAPS may/will be needed. You may get tired of
    "small world" and need to escape to your hotel room.
    
    Kathi
    
    (who can hum the song in her sleep)

    It depends on the kid's personality, frankly.  My older nephew went to
    Disneyland when he was 3-1/2 and still remembers that trip.  He loved
    it and loved the characters (especially Captain Hook!).  My younger
    nephew, who is 4 now, isn't ready.  He's terrified of anyone dressed up
    in costumes like that (won't even sit on Santa's lap - dictates
    letters, instead!).
    
    My youngest niece went when she was 1 and again recently (2-1/2). 
    She's not in the slightest bit fearful (a little dare-devil, in fact)
    and had a blast!  I don't know if she'll remember, much though.  You
    never know what a kid will remember (except, of course, all the things
    you wish they'd forget!).
    
    I'd be tempted to wait until next year, so you could all go together.
    
    
    Good luck with your decision,
    Susan

    If a person goes with small children, and we have  youngest 9month old,
    let the youn'n rest.  If they get tired, go back to the hotel.
    They will not only annoy you, but others arround you.
    use one of the rental strollers for even older ones to rest in as you
    tour the park.
    

    We went to Disneyland when our children were 4-1/2 and 2-1/2.  They
    both have fond memories and we have priceless pictures of our son
    getting a piggy-back ride from Pluto and our daughter toddling down
    Main Street holding hands with Mickey and Minnie.  (It was mid-November
    and very few people there.)
    
    Steve

    I agree with .168 ... depends on the child.
    
    Our daughter celebrated her 4th birthday there. She kept up with us
    just fine ... a real trooper when you consider how long some of the
    days were. She was just that kind of kid. She had a blast and remembers
    quite a bit about it. She is now 8.
    
    Our youngest turned 4 last May. We did not think he was ready at that
    time. He tired more easily at 4, and lacked the maturity and attention
    span that his older sister had. We are going to see the Big Mouse in
    April ... a month before he turns 5. He's ready now. Changed a lot in
    the last 10 months or so.
    
    /se
    

I have made reservations for the Hoop Dee Doo for my birthday, the 5:00 show.
I know that some people have recommended that when you make the reservations
you should ask for a table in the front.  I will have my 7 and 2 year old
boys with me.  Is it possible that being in the front, or even NEAR the
front would be too much for them, especially for the 2 year old?

I am especially concerned if the show is an "in your face" type of thing,
where the activity would be *right* next to him.

     Carol

    Carol, you know your kids the best.  if they are going to get upset
    by an in your face, or 'pressure' situation, it may not be the best
    place for them.  There's a lot of action and interaction.  and it can
    be loud.  a 2 year old?  I could entertain the idea of hiring
    a Disney babysitter for the time.
    The worst thing for EVERYONE is for a crying child.  The child being
    frightened, the parents not wanting to waste money by having to leave, 
    and the people at surrounding tables, well, you get the idea.
    
    regards,
    ed
    

Carol,

Over the years we've been to the Hoop Dee Doo a couple of times.

Our kids were small 1 or 2 years old.

We sat in the back and the kids seemed to love it.
Each kid is different, so if your kids are kind of 
sensitive to lights and noise, I'd probably sit in
the back. That way if there is a problem you can
take them in the "lobby" or somewhere else where
they can relax.

Doug 

    Tough call Carol.
    
    Some 2 year olds will just marvel at
    everything...lights...music...singing, etc.
    
    Others may be frightened by all the activity.
    
    A friend of mine asked me if she should book Hoop-Dee-Doo when she goes
    in March. Her children are 7 and 3. I suggested she wait until her
    youngest is at least 6.
    
    But like everyone says, you know your kids better than the rest of us
    do so you are the best person to make this decision.
    
    Mike

How about taking in Mickey's Tropical Luau earlier in the week?  It's probably
less in-your-face, less loud, etc. and it's also meant for little kids and is
outside so an upset child wouldn't be as much of an issue.  You could see how
Justin does there and then decide whether or not to take him to HDD.

						Tracy

Great idea, Tracy!

The problem is, folks, that I've never been to WDW, much less HDD.  I can
judge pretty well what my kids can handle when I know what the situation will
be like.  However, I don't know what the HDD is like.  

Are the actors up on stage the vast majority (or all) of the time?
Are any of the actors in costumes where their faces are entirely covered (like
   the Disney characters are: Mickey, Goofy, etc), AND they are not the 
   well-known Disney characters that my son would have seen on video?
Are there any loud "boom" noises, like guns or cannons?  If so, do they come
   from the front of the room or from the back or where?

These are the things I know I should be aware of.  If there's anything more
that you noticed could be frightening to some children, then please let me
know.

Also, are women from the audience ever selected to be part of the show, or
just men?

     Carol

    Carol,
    
    HDD characters are humans, they are NOT Disney characters you or your
    kids would recognize.
    
    During the show there's lots of loud music. The band is to the right
    of the stage (as you face it) and the music and songs never stop except 
    for some corny jokes which young children never get or laugh at.
    
    The performers will come down off the stage and hilight birthdays,
    anniversaries, and anything else for some fun and laughter.
    
    The finale involves selecting several members of the audience. These
    people are usually a small child (Texas Ranger), someone to play the
    dance hall girl, a man to play the brave indian (your's truly at the
    '92 bash), and usually a heavy balding man to play the...oh I'll keep
    you in suspense on that one.
    
    At times the servers will hand out washboards for everyone to play on.
    Your kids will like that.
    
    It's too bad they did away with the Chip & Dale Rescue Rangers
    breakfast because it was really geared towards a younger crowd.
    
    If you have any doubts about your kids handling HDD....DON'T GO!
    
    It's too expensive to have to walk out halfway through because your
    youngest is frightened from all the activity.
    
    Besides, I've never been a real fan of the food they serve.
    
    Mike

    
    
    
    
    Hey Mike, I was the indian too... and the husband of our friends we
    went with was the ah... special character as you described it ;-)
    And yes, he fit the mold... We got pictures and everything (also got
    'em kissed by one of the players ;-))
    
    Anyways, our kids (2 & 4) hate loud music and all, but thoroughly enjoyed 
    HDD. We weren't front row; actually about 4 "sets" of tables back and on
    the side.
    
    We also did Mickey's Tropical Luau before, which worked out real well
    because the kids got to mingle with Mickey, Goofy, Minnie, et. al. We
    sat in the front for that - and no problems with the music or show.
    
    If you're into other smaller shows, there's always the Biergarten in 
    Germany which the kids like as well...  That has some louder music
    you might be able to guage the HDD if you weren't sure.
    
    Personally I'd hate to leave the kids with a sitter - HDD is "loud"
    enough so that if a child cries others really won't be bothered. 
    Besides the castmembers are really good and have probably seen 1000's
    of crying kids and know just what to bring out to soothe them.... 
    (we got a special dinner in Mexico one night for the 4 yr. old who 
    just didn't want to eat anything...)
    
    
    Of course like everyone else says, you know your kids...

    I'm not familiar with either the Hoop-Dee-Doo or the Mickey's Tropical
    Luau, where do I find more info like this.....this will be our first
    trip and I just recently started using this notes file.
    
    Thanks,
    
    Jim

    Check out topic #14 for info on Hoop Dee Doo.
    
    Check out topic #39 for Dining Info.
    
    Mike

    Re:  #172
    
    Our daughter, Karen,  was 2.5 when we went to the Hoop De Doo Review.  
    
    Since we made our reservations so far in advance, we were in the 
    front table right below the stage.
    
    Karen loved it!  She was amazed with the entire show.  We had more fun
    watching her.  It was one of the highlights of our entire trip.
    
    Karen is mature for her age and we did talk a lot about the trip
    before we went.
    
    One benefit from the trip is that she was no longer afraid of any 
    characters.   We did not expect her to go up to the characters,  
    because before this she would cry if she saw any type of character, 
    including Santa Claus.  
    
    This year no problem, she went right up and sat on his lap.
    
    We did not originally plan the trip just to bring our daughter. We had
    not been in 3 years ourselves and were dying to go back and would not
    care to go anywhere without her.  
    
    We had the best time and Karen talks about Disney World all the time,
    even 1 year later.
      
                                    

Here's some up-to-date info on supervised activities for kids at WDW:

Mousketeer Club at Contemporary Resort 
	Supervised Child Care
	Available for all WDW Resort guests
	Ages 4-12, who are toilet trained
	4:30pm to midnight
	Reservations Required

Mousketeer Club at Grand Floridian
	Supervised Child Care
	Available for Grand Floridian Resort guests ONLY
	Ages 4-12, who are toilet trained
	4:30pm to midnight
	Reservations Required

Neverland Club at Polynesian Resort
	Supervised Child Care and dinner, Peter-Pan Themed
	Available for all WDW Resort guests
	Ages 3-12, who are toilet trained
	5:00pm to midnight
	Reservations Required

Sand Castle CLub at the Beach Club REsort
	Supervised Child Care
	Available for all WDW Resort guests
	Ages 4-12, who are toilet trained
	5:00pm to midnight
	Reservations Required
	Dinner available at an extra charge

Cub's Den at Wilderness Lodge
	Supervised Child Care with a Western Theme
	Available for all WDW Resort guests
	Ages 4-12, who are toilet trained
	Hours not shown
	Reservations Required
	Includes Kid's buffet, character visits, animal shows, and video games

Hope this is useful to some.
Bill A.

Also, in-room babysitting is provided by Kinder Care Learning Centers
with 24 hr advance reservation.  Call (407) 827-5444.

Bill A.

    re: 22.183
    
    Bill,
    
    Do you, by chance, have the latest price info for these child care
    services?
    
    Dan
    

CHild care prices weren't listed, but reservation numbers were.

At Contemporary, 824-1000, x3038.
At GF 824-1666.
At Polynesian 939-3463.
At BYC 934-7000 x6191.
At Wilderness Lodge, 824-1083.

All are area code (407).


Bill A.

    re -2  we used the sitting service (about a year ago)....
    
    $8 an hour, minimum 4 hours which must include 1 hour travel time.....
    
    yup, you pay for an hour that you don't use......
    
    actually, the lady was nice...I had put our little one to bed by the
    time she arrived.  she sat on our bed and read....
    
    kathi
    

What are the kiddie areas like at the water parks?

    Carol

The kiddie area at Blizzard was NOT open as of last week.


Bill A.

Thanks for the warning, Bill.

What are the kiddie areas at Typhoon Lagoon and River Country like?

     Carol

> The kiddie area at Blizzard was NOT open as of last week.

Hi Bill.  I just talked to folks at both the WDW Information number and at
Blizzard Beach Guest Relations.  Both said that the children's area of the 
park has been open since the park opened in early April.  Do you know something
they don't know? ;-)
					Tracy

    Carol,
    
    I haven't been to River Country - the note somewhere in here about the
    snake swimming by is enough to keep me from going.  I HATE SNAKES!!!
    I also encountered a snake at the marina at Fort Wilderness.  A kind
    soul frightened it away - it headed for the water!  I HATE SNAKES!!!
    I don't think I'll be going to River Country.
    
    Anyway, we've done the kiddie stuff at Typhoon Lagoon.  Andrew didn't
    like it much at age two.  Nicole who is quite timid didn't like it at
    age two but loved it when she was five.  They have a small version of
    the tube type of slide which she loved.  They also have some shallow
    pools of water, some "things" that spray water and a short slide.
    The things that spray water are some sort of animal shaped construction
    and spray a bit more than a mist of water.  It's kind of hard to
    describe exactly what they are.
    
    I think there are some picnic tables in the area.
    
    The thing we most enjoyed at Typhoon Lagoon was Castaway Creek.  We
    used three tubes and held them together as a group.  Randy, Nicole
    and I each had our own tube and Andrew took turns climing into our
    laps.  We spent most of the day doing this and had a great time.  I
    think it was the best day of our vacation.
    
    Ruth

Blizzard Beach Ski Patrol Training Camp was open when I was there last Friday,
already a week ago :-(.  There is one part of it that wasn't open, some sort of
Moggle slide.  It wasn't under construction and didn't look to safe.  It was
basically a 20ft wide by maybe 30/40ft long concrete slide with big mogul humps
and a small pool at the bottom.  Looked like a good place to crack a skull.

There are a few areas within this that appear to work for different age groups,
at least two with a possible third area.  There were plenty of Life Guards
around the area and they stayed right on top of those that got out of control; 
the ice-flow area in particular.

-Tim

>Hi Bill.  I just talked to folks at both the WDW Information number and at
>Blizzard Beach Guest Relations.  Both said that the children's area of the 
>park has been open since the park opened in early April.  Do you know something
>they don't know? ;-)
>					Tracy
>

I was relating the report of a coworker who just returned from a visit
last week.  He was disapointed and said that his kids didn't have a lot
to do.  I dunno what's going on.

Bill A.

    About 1/2 of the 'kiddy' portion of BB seemed closed down to me.  I
    didn't take much notice in the area sorry.
    
    -Jay
    

    The Kiddie area at Blizzard Beach looked to me like it was for Kids who
    could swim.  The one at Typhoon Lagoon appears to be geared for 4 and
    under.
    
    Julie
    

    We are at Typhoon Lagoon on Monday of last week. There is one part of
    the kiddie area that is right near the wave pool. There is another part
    that is further down the walkway next to where the tube rides are.
    These are both very tame (i.e., under 4) and were fully operational
    while we were there.
    
    

Taken from the "Special Events" section on Disney's WWW page
(http://www.travelweb.com/thisco/wdw/wdwhome/wdw.html).  Sounds 
like fun, too bad we won't be there on one of those days!

Epcot's Monthly "Festival" for Kids, June 17, July 15, Aug 19, 
Sept 16, Oct 28, Nov 18, 1995

World Showcase Kid's Day Celebrations feature children's 
activities from around the work in special "Kid Zones" throughout 
Epcot. Although every celebration differs, the monthly events all 
revolve around a common theme: "All kids, no matter where they 
live, like to have fun."

With theme in mind, every World Showcase nation presents 
activities for all children visiting the park.  Past events have 
included ribbon dancing in China, face painting in Canada, 
sidewalk chalk art in the United Kingdom, watercoloring in 
France, pinata decorating in Mexico, stroytelling in Norway, 
Moroccan script lessions, "chicken dancing" in Germany, puppet 
shows in Italy, "hula hoop" contests in the American Adventure 
and chopsticks races in Japan.

Special entertainment also is provided during most World Showcase 
Kid's Celebrations.  All events are free of charge. Park 
admission is required.  Hours vary and dates are subject to 
change.  Walt Disney World guests can call (407)824-4321 for more 
information.

We used the sitting service when we were there in April 97.

Cost is $11/hour, 1/2 hour travel time, I think 4 hour minimum.

We had a sitter named Karen Locke.  Karen is a grandmother who
was originally from CT, has retired to Orlando, her husband works
over at Universal.  She was wonderful, we will request her again
(hopefully next year ;^)), and I would strongly recommend her to 
anyone considering using the in-room sitting.  When you make 
reservations, you can request a specific sitter by name.  

The $11/hr is steep, but with a 11 month old, the nights out were
worth every penney!

Brad