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Conference abbott::cruise_travel

Title:CRUISE TRAVEL
Moderator:XANADU::FAMULARO
Created:Thu Aug 04 1988
Last Modified:Thu Dec 12 1996
Last Successful Update:Wed Jan 01 1997
Number of topics:562
Total number of notes:2834

470.0. "Holland A./RCCL comparisons ?" by LEDDEV::CULLISON () Mon Sep 13 1993 13:17

    Has anyone out there taken cruises on both Holland America and
    RCCL ??  I would really appreciate comments on differences etc.
    between the two. If someone has cruised on Holland and another line
    such as NCL then that would be useful also. I've been on 8 cruises
    of which 4 were RCCL. I am giving a lot of consideration to taking
    a cruise on Holland maybe in Jan 95. I obviously like RCCL with
    4 cruises done and one scheduled for Jan 94, but  I think I may
    want to try Holland in the future. I would also be interested
    in any other comparisons between RCCL and any others. I have the
    Holland brochure and know ports etc. I also know that Holland
    is generally a little more expensive but with the discounting they
    do have reasonable prices available.
    
    If anyone who has sailed on multiple cruises on different lines
    can share their impressions then this information can be very
    helpful in the selection process to others, even repeaters.
    Thanks in advance.
    
    				Harold C.
    
T.RTitleUserPersonal
Name
DateLines
470.19-12-93 SUNDAY GLOBEISLNDS::FAUST_CLANCY"In God We Trust, Others Pay Cash"Mon Sep 13 1993 13:4611
    Happy Monday Harold.....!  (argghh)
    
    I thought I'd let you in on the fact that yesterday's Sunday Globe
    had a wonderful article/s on Crusing Highlights in the Travel section.
    They even discussed Holland vs RCCL.  
    
    If you don't have Sunday's Globe, let me know.  I save it!  I have
    the travel section of the BOSTON SUNDAY GLOBE for the past two years!
    (It's great for comparing prices, etc..)
    
    Debra
470.2So how do they compare?DNEAST::MCLAUGHLIN_PThu Dec 30 1993 17:119
     I know it's been quite some time since note 470.0 was entered but
     did you find out how RCCL and Holland compares?  I would be interested
     in knowing as I love RCCL and am considering trying Holland.

     Thanks,
     Patty
     	


470.3RCCL cruiser trying Holland LEDDEV::CULLISONMon Jan 03 1994 16:2732
    I entered note 470 and currently cannot tell you anything more but I will
    be going on a Holland America cruise starting Jan 30 and back Feb 6.
    My wife and I decided to try Holland America at least once. If I do not
    go ahead and try it I will always be wandering about it. I will try to post
    some update then. I thought there would have been some other replies by
    now on the subject.  
    
    I got the cruise documents last week a full month ahead. Flights
    to Ft. Lauderdale look good so far. Since this cruise is very
    similar to the Sovereign in itinerary etc. I expect it to be a
    good comparison. Ship is about same age as Sovereign but much smaller.
    The ship is the Noordham and it sails from Ft. Lauderdale from Sun.
    to Sun. It stops at Nassau, San Juan and St. Thomas. It spends 3 days
    at sea and the last 2 days are at sea which I like. Holland does
    not have a beach style day at island like RCCL and NCL. I would
    prefer Coco Cay to Nassau but that is fine.
    
    One nice little feature at St. Thomas is it stops early in morning
    first at St Johns and then goes to ST. thomas an hour later. It allows
    you to get off at St Johns and go directly to one of it's beaches,
    spend a lot of time there then take a boat back to ST thomas to
    the ship. 
    
    I also got a rebate of some of the cruise cost when the rate was
    dropped. I described this in note 478.
    
    Send me mail if you do not see an update to this by feb 10.
    
    				Harold C.
    
    
    
470.4Holland Cr. report/ vs RCCLMAY30::CULLISONWed Feb 09 1994 15:33334
    
    
I am posting a brief report on our first cruise on a Holland America
Cruise ship, the Noordham. I will attempt to hi lite differences between
it and a cruise on a RCCL ship, specifically the Sovereign which we have
sailed on 3 times, we also sailed on Song of America in 87. We have done
a few other cruises also, Norway (NCL), 2 on Regency Cruises and one
on Disney Cruise. Differences here are basically for Holland/RCCL. Total
cruises for us are 9, from 1985 to present. I went with my wife and
no other couples. My age is 44 just so you know what age group I am
end. We tend to like to relaz mostly on cruises, we like 2 or 3 days
at sea that is why we mostly cruise the Eastern route.

Want to begin by saying that overall our Holland America cruise was a
similar cruise experience to our cruises on RCCL, but with some 
differences. I will basically list the differences the best I remember
them and only areas that were significantly different. Another thing,
since the Noordham is a much smaller ship than the Sovereign there are
differences that are due to the size difference and not so much the
differences in cruise lines.

Excuse in advance spelling errors etc. 

Entertainment
    This cannot be compared really. Since the Noordham only carries about
    1200 passengers max versus 2200+ on Sovereign, a comparison would
    not be valid because more passengers allows more entertainment etc.
    Entertainment did seem to meet what I expected for this size of ship.

    Sovereign did provide an extra small show after main show.
    On Noordham entertainment focused on 6 singers/dancers, 1/2 male/female.
    They were pretty good. They also had a comedian who was reasonably good.
    They also had a juggler/comedian/walk small tightrope routine. This
    guy was very good but was only on for that week. The others were
    regulars. 


Activities
    Again size of ship affects this. Overall about what expected for
    size of ship.


Average age of passengers
    Average age was higher than even Sovereign which is pretty high itself.
    We had 100 travel agents on, if you discounted them then the average 
    age of the rest was 60 plus with very few couples or anyone under
    40. Very few under 50 even. One young child (1 year old), there were
    probably around 6 or so other older teenagers at 15 plus, I am sure
    the few teenagers were bored silly. Teenagers tend to like Carnival
    cruises much better or something like disney.

Dining room food and service
    A little better selection of food. Service was similar. Soups were 
    more hardy on Noordhan. Always had 3 choices of salads instead of 2
    for RCCL.
    Always had choice of a hot appetizers in addition to standard list
    of appetizers. Always had 5 main choices like RCCL but always
    had a separate vegetarian and low calorie choice. 
    In dining room each table of 6 or more or 2 tables of 4 have one
    waiter for them only, there are no bus boys like RCCL and others.
    On RCCL the waiter usually handles 12 to 16 people with help of
    busboy. Basically overall I did not notice much of a difference.

    An additional item which I like but no big deal was on Holland
    lunch and breakfast are always open sitting every day, where as on
    RCCL you have to go to assign 1st/2nd seating except when in
    port for lunch which is usually open seating. On Holland there is
    only 1 hour for lunch but you can come any time during it.


Lido lunch and breakfast
    This is a MAJOR difference especially at lunch but even breakfast.
    Holland America had RCCL beat badly on the lido deck dining !!!!!!
    Lido offers a amazing full selection of excellent food at lunch
    in addition to the hamburger/hotdog and other misc. just outside
    door near pool. Seating inside lido is spacious, nice and kept up
    much better than RCCL. HOurs are very long and they do not slam
    door on your at the exact hour of closing , always kept it open
    at least 5 minutes latter. Desserts and sandwiches are available 
    almost all day self service. It is self serve like RCCL but really
    nice.

    Bottom line you basically could care less about going to dining
    room for breakfast/lunch because it was so nice and the selection
    so good at lido, items there were similar (some different from
    dining room), actually better selection especially desserts but
    great selection for food including even 2 soups. Only advantage
    of dining room is full sit down service, but it takes longer.

    Hollands beats up on RCCL big time here, no comparison to RCCL
    meager offering with better facilities, food, selection, service,
    everything for Holland here, especially at lunch.

    
Exercise activities
  Classes, of course larger ship would offer more but here on Holland
    it was less than some smaller ships I was on. Seems to be oriented
    to older cliental. Only 1 aerobics class all week. Other stuff was
    minor. for most people difference was not significant.
   Sovereign of Seas has an excellent aerobics class schedule and good
    classes.

  equipment in exercise room.
    This was a pleasant supprise, equipment on much smaller Holland
    America ship was as good and in one area much better than much 
    larger Sovereign. This was first ship I've been on  with 2 very
    high quality full range treadmills. Otherwise similar.


ship shape program RCCL/passport to fitness Holland America
   Basically similar, both kind of mickey mouse but fun. Holland's
   gives you credit for eating a low calorie main entree at dinner.

Ports of call.
   Similar. On our Eastern Carribean cruise we stopped at Nassua, 
   San Juan, and St. Thomas/St. John. Noordham alternates weekly from
   Eastern to Western Caribbean, because of this some passengers 
   stay on ship in same cabin and do both weeks. The only problem
   with these deals which is similar to other lines from what
   I understand is the only difference between weeks is the ports,
   generally the entertainment is the same each night. So if
   you want to seen fresh entertainment on 2nd week of a cruise then
   either verify that line changes all entertainment of just
   go on a 10/11 day cruise.
   Note Holland Westerdam cruises Eastern weakly, basically same but
    substitutes ST. Martin for San Juan and order is reversed.
   Sovereign does Eastern weekly and stops at St. Thomas, San Juan
    and Coca Cay which is their private beach stop in Bahamas. If
    Haiti ever stabilizes again they will use Labadee again which
   is nicer than Coca Cay but Coca Cay is nice.

    Shore excursions are all same for same port.

   The only real difference here was Holland stops at St. John just
    before St. Thomas., only problem is you have to take shore
    excursion to get off. But nice thing for Noordham only, not
    Westerdam or Sovereign is they get to St. Thomas at about
    8:30 AM they stay there till 11 PM, you do not have to be back
    until 10:30 PM. THis allows you a lot more flexibility and not
    to be rushed in St. Thomas.

    On other hand Nassau is a waste, we did not get off ship, much
    nicer to stay on board. In this case Coca Cay would be nicer.

    But basically ports are something you pick based on your desires
     so overall no real difference.
    

Pools
    Pools are always small on ship, no difference except,
    
    Noordham has 2 pools plus a small jucuzzi, no big deal, similar
    to others. But the
    jacuzzi and one small pool are both fresh water, first I've
    ever seen on a ship. Normally always salt water only. still no
    big deal.


Additional costs on board.
   Costs for drinks, wine, photos, shore excursions seemed to be similar.


No tipping required policy.
   Holland has this policy which is a little confusing. They basically
   say no tipping required but you can. We tipped similar to another
   ship because the waiters and cabins stewards etc. usually make
   a large portion of their income on tips. When buying drinks from
   bar or wine there is no tip included on Noordham, on RCCL and
   most others they take 15% out automatically. Normally I like
  to determine tip but on a cruise I like the 15% because it
   everything goes against account anyway so you do not need to
   carry any cash and the 15% is not that much. We did tip the one guy
   who served us drinks at the one lounge at end of cruise for the whole week.
  Basically overall we spent about same, my feeling with some
   discussions from Holland repeaters is the personnel assume
  they will get some tips.


Overall costs.
   Not really easy to determine, we had a much nicer stateroom with large
   discount off regular price. Sovereign had larger discounts also. Basically
   the real price was similar. 

Staterooms.
   We had a higher level stateroom than when we went on RCCL so not easy
   to determine. We did not have chance to see basic stateroom. Ours
    was very nice, and had a full 5' tub in bath. Ours was C category
   with A being highest. The basic cabins are all same on Sovereign until
    you get to D or higher, basic RCCL cabins are known for being tiny, we've
   used them and inside/outside are tiny. But no big deal, who stays in the
   cabin that much anyway.

Laundry
   Both ships have regular laundry service which can be costly especially
  for items like socks and underwear because of the individual charges.

    Nice thing on Noordam/Holland America in general and not found on
     any other cruise that I've been on is they provide self service laundry
    rooms.     They request no Ironing in your cabin, but provide full size
    ironing boards with irons in laundry rooms. Each room has 2 washing
    machines and 2 dryers. Washing machines are 75 cents which includes
    detergent. Dryers are FREE which is handy if you hand rinse some stuff
    and just want to dry.  The laundries were scattered around, ours was
    close and convenient, could be busy sometimes but we found times
    that was convenient.
    I try to work out some each day and on other ships I end up hand rinsing
    my shorts etc. each day but then drying is a problem. They will not
    dry in a bathroom because it is too humid so you end up hanging stuff
     everywhere in cabin and it still takes two days with junk hanging 
    everywhere. On Holland you just dump in dryer and your all set. Plus
    we did one small wash in middle of week to catch up on T shirts,
    underwear socks etc. The laundries are quiet and located such that they
    will not affect any cabins, the best that I could determine. This 
    was a nice touch for Holland.

Payments on board ship.
   Basically similar, on Sovereign you can charge everything to room with
   card. YOu always had to give your room card to do it and you had to have
    an account. On Holland all they needed was room number. In both
    cases if they ran your credit card through machine and you signed ahead
   then that was all that was needed. They give you final bill with
  detail breakout on last morning of cruise. The only difference was you
   really did not have to carry card on Noordham except to use it as 
  pass to get back onboard ship which is needed for both.

Air/sea package
   Basically similar. One nice little touch Holland does for passengers 
   who arrange their own air is they still provide free the transfer
   from the airport to the cruise ship terminal. All you have to do
   is tell them in advance and they will provide no charge transfer
   tickets to ship. I do not believe RCCL does this, or not that I
   know of. We have always taken the air/sea package on all our cruises.
   Westerdam and Noordham both cruise out of Ft. Lauderdale, the
    trip from airport to Cruise terminal is very short, 5-10 minutes.
   Miami Airport to Miami cruise terminal is much longer, 25-30 minutes
    or so if I remember correctly. Still no big difference everall.


Holland under Carnival.
   I only mention this because Holland America is owned by Carnival. I think
    for about 5 years or so now.
   The one advantage is they have access to money to build new ships
   which they have and are continuing to do. If you talk to a lot
   of old timers who sailed with Holland before Carnival bought 
   them then most will say the service has suffered some but is still
   very good. I think in reality a lot of the changes has more to
   do with the fact that the industry is just very competitive now.

   Holland has a very high number of repeaters, but RCCL does also.   

Overall service

   One trademark of Holland is virtually all personnel in dining room,
   bars, lounges and cabins stewards are either Indonesian or 
   from the Phillipines. They are known for their friendly service 
   and attitude. I think overall it is a little better but no
   big deal.

Condition of ship.
   Noordham is about 10 years old, Sovereign is about 6 years old.
   Both are kept up well but my nod for best kept condition is 
    the Noordham, beautiful ship kept up very well. 

Dress code etc.
   Very similar, 2 formal nights, 1 informal, rest casual. Similar to
   RCCL and others.
 

Getting on/getting off. 
   Did not really notice much difference. Difference more based on size
   of ship. Facilities at Ft. Lauderdale are nice, but Miami port is
   also nice. RCCL and Holland both seem to do a good job here.


Smoking/Non smoking
  Similar but Noordam does not allow pipes or cigars inside ships except
    they do allow them in one of the lounges only and only in the smoking
    area there. They ask smokers not to smoke inside except in designated
    smoking areas only. Designated smoking areas in lounges was smaller
    than RCCL, probably only 20-25% of seats versus about 35-40% of seats
    on Sovereign. In the main lounge for shows no seats around stage
    have smoking allowed, smoking seats are on one side and set back.
    On Sovereign as of last cruise they do not allow any smoking in the
    main show lounge, other lounges allow smoking on maybe 40% of seats
    usually all on one side. Please note that smoking policies seemed
    to be getting tighter and change often. My observations for Sovereign
    were 14 months ago and could have changed again. The part of no
    smoking in main lounge on Sovereign was new to our cruise in Dec 92,
    our cruise on it in Dec 91 did allow smoking on one side. Overall
    a non smoker was less affected by smoking on Holland than on RCCL,
    but not by a great degree. The disco was significantly less on
    Holland, on Sovereign the ships officers etc. congregate here like
    on Holland but on Sovereign they smoke everywhere in the disco whereas
    Holland allows smoking only near bar. Not allowing Cigars inside
    ship in general is big plus for Holland which Regency does also.
    Nothing worst than a cigar smoker anywhere near you which happened
    on Sovereign a few times but not too much.
    At least one cruise line is starting to offer no smoking cabins
    now.

    The worst cruise by far for smoking policy that I went on was the
    Norway of NCL, ...BUT... that was in 1985 so I would assume their
    policies are similar to most others now.

    If you smoke cigars or pipes and you want to smoke inside the ship
    then you should probably verify the specific policy in advance
    with the cruise line. This information is not normally listed
    in the brochures so you could be supprised. From my experience
    Regency does not allow pipes/cigars anywhere inside ship except
    your cabin. Holland allows it only in cabin and one lounge.
    RCCL allows pipes/cigars anywhere smoking is allowed. As stated
    before these policies change a lot so verify your status, anything
    I've said can and probably will change sometime in future if not
    already.


Bottom line is overall I feel you cannot go wrong with either RCCL or
Holland, we will probably sail again on both in future. With price
etc. determining a lot of which we go on. We have enjoyed both.

If you want to take kids on ship the one thing to remember is, unless 
going on a Disney cruise or similar, during winter there will be
very few kids on most ships unless you travel during a known vacation week
like New Years, Christmas etc. 

If any one else has any questions on comparisons here then let me know.
I did the best I could from memory. What would be nice is if someone else
who has traveled on both Holland America and RCCL could list their
thoughts.

				Harold C.

    
470.5Any news of RCCL's SOADNEAST::MCLAUGHLIN_PThu Feb 10 1994 10:2015
	Harold,

        I enjoyed reading your trip report and your comparison of the 
        two ships/lines.  We have considered Holland America for their
        Panama Canal cruises which we are thinking about for 1995 and 
        I was glad to hear that Holland compares favorably to RCCL.  

        My husband and I are leaving in 27 days for an 11-night cruise
        to the Southern Caribbean on RCCL's Song of America.  
        Didn't you mention in a previous note that your mother-in-law
        was going on the Song in January or February?  If so, has she
        gone and can you share any of her comments about the cruise?

        Patty McL
       
470.6no details back yet on cruiseMAY30::CULLISONThu Feb 10 1994 12:2129
    Their cruise started on Jan 26, so they were at sea the last week
    the same time as us. I am not sure when I will see them next, they
    live on the Cape. My wife did talk to her mother briefly and
    she said she did not think it was as good as her original 
    cruise on Song of America, which they liked a lot.
    
    I would not use that as much of a comparison however. Their last
    cruise was on Song of America but in 1987. When you compare against
    a cruise taken 7 years ago it really becomes difficult to remember
    all the details to make a valid comparison. At that time SOA was
    RCCL's largest and newest ship, just before Sovereign. But it could
    easily be true, with all the rapid growth you wander how they 
    staff up all the ships with good people, I am sure they probably
    take a lot of good people from existing ships for the new ones etc.
    Just looking at RCCL only in 87 they had 4 ships, with a total
    passenger capacity of about 4100 people, now they have 9 ships
    I believe with a passenger capacity of about 13,200 passengers.
    There growth has been explosive, I believe Carnival grew even
    more and Holland has grown a great deal along with others.
    
    The SOA is a nice size ship, not to big and not to small. We would
    have stronger considered a 10/11 night cruise on SOA if we could
    have scheduled it. I think it should be an enjoyable cruise.
    I believe with everything else equal 10/11 night cruises tend
    to attract an old crowd, but it must be really nice to relax for
    that length of time.
    
    				Harold 
    
470.7The longer the better for this oldie!DNEAST::MCLAUGHLIN_PThu Feb 10 1994 13:2712
	I think you're right about longer cruises attracting an 
        older crowd.  That is one of the reasons we booked another
        11-night cruise.  We enjoy the company of older people and 
        have found less children on these cruises than the week long
        cruises.  (This is nothing against younger people or children
        just a matter personal preference.)  It's great that the cruise
        lines are starting to advertise so that people know that a 
        line caters to say, "families", "party boat", "relaxed elegance",
        etc.   This helps cruisers plan their trip with less chance of 
        being disappointed.   

        Patty McL        
470.8Trip ReportPARVAX::SCHUSTAKWho IS John Galt!?Mon Feb 21 1994 16:3485
    Well, I guess I've just been lazy for the last 6 or 8 weeks, neglecting
    to fulfill my obligation to file a trip report for my SOA cruise of
    mid-December.  I'm going to keep this brief (or as brief as possible).
    
    10 Day SOA cruise, departing Miami, returning Puerto Rico. My wife and
    I were travelling with three other couples, all "nieghbors". We were in
    6078 (I think!), anyway, outside cabin near the top level of the ship.
    This is actually a 1/2 deck, and while it was nice being "up",
    sometimes tricky to get to the cabin fromn different parts of some of
    the lowere decks. Cabin was OK, not very large though (compared to my
    two most previous cruises, Celeb Horizon and Sky Princess).
    
    Cabin service was Ok, no problems, nothing great. Food was fine,
    previous comments re non-dining room dining accurate. If you want mopre
    than the basics, the dining room is preferred (for the first time on a
    ship, I had breakfast in thge dining room 6 or 7 times...thge other 3
    days, I didn't want anything but strong coffee ;-).  Last comment
    before describing ports...THEY LOST MY LUGGAGE! I believe they have a
    faulty process.  You apply the ship luggage tags at your departure
    airport (in my case, Newark Int'l) and never see your luggage again
    until it's brough to the cabin after you've boarded.  I brought 2
    bags...garment bag with my Tux, 2 blazers, ties, and Dopp kit (plus
    some misc), and my big,  soft-sided Hartmann bag. Of course, also had a
    carry-on with one-days spare clothing (shorts, T-shirt, and
    essentials).  Apparently, the Airline (?) (UAL) missed my large bag in
    Miami, and it went to Aruba.  To make a long story short (I know, it's
    already too late for that!) I got my bag in the 4th Port'o-call.
    Summaries of ports:
    
    Coco-cay: Nice beach, tho a little too crowded.  I preferred the NCL
    private island, but as previously noted, RCCL would rather use Labadee.
    
    Dominica: ABSOLUTELY gorgeous. Seemmed barely settled...just tropical
    forest, and small villages (these looked poor, but safe).  Took a nice,
    liesurely 3 hr river excursion, then stopped in town for some homemade
    HOT pepper sauce.
    
    Trinidad: If I worked for Exxon, Mobil, Texaco, etc I'd probably be
    interested.  Didn't bother leaving the Port area...some local shopping
    right near the port (good prices on coffees, local crafts, etc), but we
    spent most of our time sipping Pina Coladas poolside.
    
    St.Kitts (where my luggage was sent to for me to pick up): NOT.  Some
    type of Coup d'etat, so the ship went to
    
    St Croix (where I finally DID get my luggage, after RCCL had it flown
    over): Went on an excursion to a beach a few miles outside of the main
    city (can't recall the name) I'd been to before.  Nice, quite island,
    very pretty beaches (the water must have higher salt content, as it is
    VERY easy to float).
    
    Martinique: Very french, went via water-shuttle to a beach (turned out
    to be top-optional, as I suspect most of them are, don't recall the name 
    of the bay (I'll enter it later). Nice, not great. 
    
    St Maarten: My first visit there...GREAT island.  Spent the better part
    of the day at Little Bay, on the beach and renting Jet-ski's, then
    lunch at a resaurant downtown (L'escargot), and some shopping. Very
    good selections, very good prices (of the ports I've visited, second
    only to St Thomas for shopping).
    
    St Thomas: This was my 3rd visit to ST, and I finally made it to Magens
    Bay.  Beautiful beach, but be aware that there is a big difference in
    the sand and the crowds.  If your looking out at the bay, the left side
    is gorgeous and almost deserted.  The right side (which has the
    bars/restaurants) is not quite as nice (still beats the Jersey shore)
    but quite crowded.
    
    Other observations: AT LEAST 3 or 4 others that I met had similar
    luggage experiences on this cruise.  Chief Pursar, while very nice, led
    me to believe that there was little they could do (and I certainly felt
    that this DOES happen with regularity).  Got a $50 credit at the ships
    store, a ShipShape T-Shirt, and a bottle of Champagne to celebrate when
    I got my luggage back...also, I could dress as casually as I wanted for
    the first 5 days (got this great photo of my wife and I meeting the
    captain at his welcome reception...I'm wearing a black tux, red tie,
    but unfortunately, no shirt and no shoes!).
    
    One other good point...lady luck was on my side in the Casino Royale.
    
    Later,
    
    Steve
    
    
470.9MAY30::CULLISONMon Feb 21 1994 21:5058
    The automatic transfer of luggage to ship is done on various cruise
    lines and was probably not the problem in your case.
    
    The fact that your luggage went to Aruba indicates that the normal
    handling at the airport was faulty. Miss placing luggage happens
    a lot unfortunately in all cases.
    
    You can always handle the luggage yourself. But if it was already
    on the way to Aruba it still would not have helped any.
    
    The main advantage to handling yourself is you know that it is not
    there to pick up and you may be able to get it before the airplane
    leaves, but that would only work if it was on the plane, many times
    it was never on the correct plane but another instead.
    
    One thing to always be careful of which does happen is the airport
    baggage checkers sometimes put the wrong tag on. I had this happen
    one time to me and I was  fortunate to have noticed the incorrect
    tag myself and had it changed. So always check the destination airport
    tag on all pieces of luggage when they are checked.
    
    I would guess that for all the cases where the luggage is misplaced
    that 75% of those have nothing to do with the auto transfer program.
    
    Other than doing all carry on there is no fool proof way to guarantee
    your luggage will get to any vacation destination. We've
    been lucky ourselves in that we have lost luggage only once on
    a vacation and it was on the way back and just delayed getting our
    dirty laundry for a few days.
    
    Another thing we have done recently is to split our clothing between
    our normal two checked bags such that if one is lost we still have
    some full outfits in the other. So split anything you have two or more
    of between bags etc. Of course you always need a small set
    for carry on and absolutely nothing valuable in checked luggage.
    
    I would also suggest that you put two ship tags on each piece of
    luggage in case one accidently got torn off or something. They
    usually give you about 5 of these anyway.
    
    I always been a little worried that what happened to you may happen
    to us sometimes.
    
    On Coca cay I thought it was crowded right at the main area but really
    easy to get away from the crowds and enjoy it and that was on the
    much larger Sovereign. NCL may have changed theirs ? When we went
    on the Norway in 85 it was the most crowded place I've ever seen.
    Labadee is definitely nicer than Coco Cay, but that is of little use
    to RCCL customers until Haiti stabilizes. Just a note, if Labadee
    ever opens up again, Coco Cay would still be used for the 3/4 night
    cruises, but most of the regular 7/10/11 night Caribbean cruises would
    use Labadee. Coco Cay was built to service the 3/4 cruise market from
    Miami for RCCL, not as a temporary replacement for Labadee. 
    
    
    
    					Harold C.
    
470.10Statendam Experiences????PARVAX::SCHUSTAKMy clients are mostly Martians!Mon Feb 27 1995 19:1025
    Well, I've been bitten by the cruise "bug" again, stimulated by an ad
    in the local paper (NJ Star Ledger) this weekend. Anybody care to
    comment on experience/word of mouth on the Holland America Statendam
    (or the sister ships, Ryndam and Maasdam I think)?
    
    Advertised special for this 10-day southern caribbean is starting at
    $1229 including R/T air. Catalog price for the smallest inside cabin is
    ~$2350. Cruise date is 4/15. What I'm interested in specifically are:
    
    	1- Room size, since I'll be in a quad with my SO and 2 kids (10 &
    		13)
    	2- Likely average age. Saw Harold's previous comment (Harold, are
    		you still with us?) This is a school holiday week for us,
    		but might not be for others, and I'm wondering about other kids. 
    
    I KNOW I can have a good time regardless of average age (all I need is
    the good food, service, ports o'call and the casino :-), but I'd like
    some feedback from others (as usual!).
    
    FWIW, the itinerary (from memory and not in order) is to/from Ft
    Lauderdale, 4 days at sea (which might be my favorite days on a
    cruise), and stops at Curucao, Venezuela, Grenada, St Thomas,
    Martinique and Dominica. Haven't been to the first three.
    
    Comments?
470.1110 day will be older crowdMAY30::CULLISONTue Feb 28 1995 13:4844
    Yes I am still here, just have not read the file much lately.
    I believe these ships are all fairly new, I know Maasdam is very
    new. I believe they are all 5 years old or less. Prices sound really
    good to me. 
    
    See about upgrade to next largest inside, it may not be that much
    more. Really depends, always worth checking.
    
    The longer the cruise the older the crowd, pretty well true for
    all lines.  I would tend to think the crowd will be older and very
    few kids. 10 day cruises I believe are almost all older crowds, very
    very few kids.
    
    Also, Holland has traditionally charged more for 3/4 person in room.
    The 3rd/4th may be almost as expensive as the first two with the
    discount rate. You may find it only a little more to get two
    rooms  ??? 3/4 rate add ons are not usually discounted.
    
    Remember especially in your case of 4 people, the price listed for 
    two people may not lead you to best deal for your case.  Some lines
    charge less for adding 3/4 in room. 
    When asking for pricing always have figured out both ways. 4 people
    in room or 2 rooms 2 each. some ships have adjoining rooms with
    connecting doors. Some of the specials are so agressive that it may
    work out that for a little more you can get two cabins for about
    the same price as one cabin with special rate and a 2 times add on
    with no discount. 
    
    Expect 4 people to be crowded in any stateroom unless very expensive.
    RCCL on balance will always be worse. They have tiny cabins except the
    very expensive ones. Plus remember, only one bath for 4 people.
    
    My guess overall is the cruise will be really nice but your kids
    may get bored ?? They would have better chance on 7 day cruise
    on large RCCL ship, or better yet for them Carnival.
    
    This is our first winter without a cruise for about 5 years. My
    daughter is on a precision skating team, so (1) there is no time
    for cruise because of mandatory practices etc. and (2) there
    is no money anyway because of the skating.
    
    				Harold
    
    
470.12LEEL::LINDQUISTLuke 2:4; Patriots 200:1Wed Mar 01 1995 08:3415