Conference abbott::cruise_travel

    
    hi jeff:
    
    you're right - i think the sovereign is the most exquisite ship on
    float.
    i was on her maiden voyage in jan. of 1988, went back on her in feb.
    1989 and again in nov. 1989. RCCL is my foavorite line - have cruised
    on that line 11 times.
    do see the "fort" in san juan - it really is worth seeing. st. thomas
    is noted for liquor and jewerly - i know a great jeweler if you are
    interested in that - let me know. labadee does have tee-shirts - don't
    remember - the beach is great there.
    you have picked one of the best ships to celebrate your 1st anniv.
    have a great time.
    
    cindi
    

    Jeff,
    
        I can imagine you must be counting the days But do it slowly
    until after MARCH 17.  We are sailing the on March 10, going down
    on the 9th and want it to last a long time...
    
        I have only heard the best about the ship and my anticipation
    is extremely high right now... 

    We sailed the Sovereign OCT 89. The Fort was o.k. interesting but hot
    even that time of year. We bought our liquor limit on St. Thomas but
    also bought RUM in Puerto Rico (separately counted) so go for the limit
    on Rum only at P.R andother liquors at S.T. The ship has a great work
    out facility and exercise classes if your so inclined You don't really
    see Hati, as the beach area is a private penninsula that is isolated
    from the rest of the island. Great plae, with lots of native crafts,
    but be prepared to bargain, if the 1st guy doesn't meet your
    expectations move down two feet and start negoiating with the next. Tee
    shirts are usually inexpensive so pick one up at each port. Have a good
    trip.

    
    We're having trouble deciding.  Actually, we've decided not to go on
    the Boston to Bermuda cruise because it is only a 6 night cruise...and
    we really wanted 7.  So, now we've decided to do the Carribean
    (hopefully this is our FINAL decision...we started out talking about
    cruising Alaska..then to Bermuda...now the Carribean...sigh...).
    
    Anyway...Here is our delima.
    
    We have two really great prices.  One is for the RCCL SOS for $1040.00
    per person including air (not including port charges).  It is for a N
    category room.  Now, our only reservation about this one is the islands
    it goes to (San Juan, St. Thomas, and Labadee - which is now CoCo Cay). 
    
    We also have a price for the NCL Norway for $1060 pp including air fare
    and port charges for a category 10 room.  This one goes to St. Marteen,
    St. John, St. Thomas and Pleasure Island.  Now, those islands sound
    better to us.....
    
    Our delima is this...everyone has been telling us to go with the SOS,
    that the NCL Norway is a nice ship, but it is older (and you can hear
    the engine hum, but it shouldn't bother us), and you don't get the 
    elegance of RCCL.  BUT, we like the islands that the NCL one goes to 
    better.... 
    
    Does any one have any suggestions?  This is our first cruise so we
    figure whichever cruise we go on we'll love.  Should we go for the
    nicer ship...or the nicer islands?  There really isn't much difference
    in price so...
    
    Thanks!
    
    Patty

    Hi Patty,
    
    We all should have such a problem!  Both ships and the ports they visit
    have some unique features that the other lacks.  We've been on both
    multiple times and I'd go on each one again if I have the chance.  I'm
    not going to get into which ship was better with this or with that
    since my opinions are just that, opinions.
    
    If it were up to me I'd flip a coin and go with whatever comes up. 
    Then plan on the other for your next cruise!  Have a great time on
    whichever ship sail.
    
    Joe
    

    
    I just thought I'd let everyone know what our decision was...
    
    We decided to take the NCL Cruise based on price.  I'll be sure to post
    a note when we return to let you all know how it was!  80 days and
    counting now!
    
    Patty

I have a couple of questions on the Sovereign...

1. I see on the floor plans that there are a couple of cafe-like places in
addition to the dining rooms... what do they serve, when, and do they charge
extra?

2. Does anyone remember when they got off the ship if there is a taxi stand
nearby?  We arranged our own transportation (Frequent flier tickets) so the
cruise line isn't likely to give us a ride... :-)

Bill

    
    .7  2 years ago my husband and I sailed on Song of America, when we
    landed in Miami there was a person holding a Rccl sign. We followed her 
    and met up with a larger group and then were herded to the buses. No
    one ever checked our tickets before we got on the bus.
    
       I imagine you could just met the Rccl person and get on the bus with
    everyone else. They are at the airport all day Saturday to meet all the
    different flights.
    
                             Have a good time 
    
                                 Jill
     

FYI... Sovereign is changing her itinerary.  She had been stopping at Nassau
instead of Labadee because of the situation in Haiti.  Now she will stop
at a different small island in the Bahamas, and then go on to San Juan
and St. Thomas as before.

Also, port charges are going up about $50.  I wonder if that's for Miami
or other ports?

Bill

    Just brief answers to a couple questions:
    
    1. Bar beverages include Cokes, juices, etc. About the only thing
    served freely (and free) is coffee and water. 
    
    2. You will most likely get a Saturday morning flight down to Miami. 
    If you wanted to go on Friday night, it would be your choice and you
    would bve able to take advantage of special rates at a Miami hotel.
    Our last cruise, on RCCL, left San Juan at 11:00 PM or so, and our
    flight landed at 9:00 PM. 
    
    Linda 

    
    	I'm not sure if RCCL is different, but I've cruised on NCL 3
    	times and was able to fly down on Friday and pay only for a hotel
    	room (at NCL's discount price) for that night.  IMHO, that is the
    	way to go... you are rested on Saturday when you board the ship.
    	Otherwise, you typically end up flying out early in the morning
    	and you're beat by the time dinner is over.
    
    	Ed

          <<< Note 194.11 by NAPIER::HAGEN "Please send truffles!" >>>
                         -< First timer SoS questions >-

We are in the process of booking a 7-day cruise on SoS the week of Aug. 28.
(This is our first cruise.)  That week is considered "Economy Season".  Our 
travel agent said we could get an "N" class room for $1000/ppdo (it's listed 
in the brochure as $1495 pp).
	What deck is N class on, if B deck then $1000/ppdo should include
      air and port charges. SOS has the best bargains. I went last
    DEC and paid $1950 for 2,  whick included air, port charges and this was
    an OUTSIDE cabin on B deck which is lowest and cheapest deck. Price can
    very a lot week to week. The week before we went, which was Economy
    also was $100 more for INSIDE only. the price in the end is really
    determined by supply and demand, they do not want to leave the
    pier without filling all rooms. I've been on SOS 3 times (mainly
    because of bargains) and each time I got a good price, 2 times 
    I reserve late. In all 3 cases the ship was absolutely full when it
    left. No rooms to spare.
    
    
    
1)After reading some of this notesfile, I keep coming across a travel agency in
Florida (?) called Just Cruises (aka South Florida Cruises) whose phone number
is 1-800-327-SHIP.  Do they really get you better rates?  How reliable and
reputable are they?
	Do not know about reliability, I believe others have used them.
        In most cases the difference in price if any is small assumming
        your agent tried for best deal.
    
2)Also, due to the problems in Haiti, a stop in CocoCay, Bahamas is substituted
for the stop at Labadee.  Previous notes talked about a substituted stop at
Nassau which most noters didn't seem to enjoy.  Has anyone been to CocoCay?
What can we expect to do there?  Is it nice?
        CocoCay is a small island similar to Labadee. It was intended 
    mainly to serve the 3/4 night cruises. I've been to both, Labadee
    is nicer and hotter, but both are nice. It is a beach day basically.
    THere is nothing else there.  Nice snorkeling etc. You can rent a
    small boats etc. We rented a small tiny sailboat, had fun. NO 
    previous experience needed.
    
    
3)If we fly from Boston, do we have to fly down on Fri. night or will we get a
flight Sat. morning?  (I ask because my parents will be driving to MA from NY
Fri. afternoon since they will be babysitting our two children while we're at
sea.)
	Sat. morning flight is almost certain. Almost always non stop. In
    some cases you may fly to Ft. Lauderdale instead of Miami. Just means
    another 15-20 minutes extra on bus to ship. bus has A/C.
    
    
4)It's my understanding that all food on ship is included in the price, but
things such as "bar beverages" are excluded.  What is meant by bar beverages?\
Does that mean ANY beverage has to be paid for?  My husband and I rarely drink 
alcohol and I was wondering if I had to pay for every orange juice, Coke, etc. 
that I drink on board.  (At the very least these bevarages should be provided 
at no extra charge with meals.)
	Coffee/Hot tea is free and available 24 hrs a day.
        Juice is available in morning free in dining room and near pool
        at cafe.
        Ice tea is available most of the day free.
    
        I believe soft drinks are free in dining room. I know anywhere else
    you must pay for them. The cost  is not $3 as mentioned. i think $1 or
    1.50. $3 will buy a mixed drink.
    
5)Are the temperatures pretty consistent year round?  I have this picture in my
mind of warm temperatures but strong ocean winds making it seem cold. (I've
been to the North Shore and Cape Cod!) What can I expect?  (We sail from Miami,
to San Juan, St. Thomas, and CocoCay.)
	It will definitely not feel cold. It is very warm even in middle of
     winter.  You usually want to bring something light that will keep you
    warm but that is mainly because you could be cool inside the ship
    say at night watching a show in the lounges.
    
    
			harold c.
    

    I haven't much to add to the previous, except I disagree with the noter
    who said the difference in prices is small if the travel agent did
    their homework.  I have found HUGE differences (ranging from "only $150
    per person up to $3-500 pp) 'tween agencies.  My recommendation...
    
    Cruises of Distinction in Montclair, NJ.  I believe they are the
    largest cruise travel agency in the US.  I've used them not because I
    happen to reside in the Garden State (now more like a Greenhose State)
    as they have only a telephon operation.  I don't have their phone #,
    but strongly advise anyone considering a cruise.  (unless someone has
    their phone # offhand, call 202-555-1212 for operator information).
    
    Most recent booking, catalog list at approx $2200 pp, my sisters agent
    at $1400 pp (albeit, not a bad price for a 10 day RCCL cruise in peak
    season), and Cruises of Distinction...$1285 pp. The service, via US
    mail, phone and FedEx is excellent.
    
    Nuff said. I'd call C of D to at least compare prices

    It looks like you got a good deal for this ship and this specific date.
    
    I had a special's pamphlet from White Travel. They were listing
    SOS as low as $879 per person with air. Aug 28 was $929 per person
    with air. I'm fairly sure you had to add port charges also, can't
    remember amount but probably about $40 to $60 per person. That
    gives a total almost exactly what you got. The $879 per person
    for the cheapest dates was also advertised by other outfits, usually
    at $899 per person. These rates were for cat "N" which is inside
    cabin on lowest deck. Most dates in Jul and Aug were more.
    Sept 4,11,Oct 2,9,16,23,30,Nov 27,Dec 4, Dec 11 were the cheapest
    dates.
    
    I've been on SOS 3 times. I may go again this Dec. The main reason
    is the very good specials, RCCL is very good, and I like the
    intinerary because it has 3 days at sea. I do not care to stop each
    day.
    
    So relax, looks like you got a very competive deal. If you did not
    pick a specific room then you might get an upgrade possibly. 
    
    					Harold C.
    

    I tried Cruises of Distinction as mentioned in 194.17 with good
    results except anybody expecting $150 or $500 per person savings may
    not save much at all but may save a lot, really depends on who
    you are comparing with. My feeling is the low advertised rates 
    will show a much smaller savings, but some higher rates especially
    could show significant amouts. Also $10 to one person maybe significant
    and not so to another.

    	COMPARISONS AGAINST many traditional agents who keep the full 
        commission would probably show substantial differences. For the
        low end fairs say at around $1000 it would probably be $50 to $100
        per person difference or maybe more. For other cases it could
    	be much higher. 

    But the bottom line is they seem to have very aggressive prices and
    I am glad for the reply and they are definitely worth a call.

    The area code of 202 was DC, should have been 201, but I got there
    anyway.

    	Cruises of Distinction  201 744 1331 but use the toll free
    		number of 800 634 3445 to save money.

           FOR A LIST OF OTHER AGENT NUMBERS SEE NOTE 388.14

    What I did was call and compare to White Travel in Connecticut. 

      The comparisons shown here are for direct comparisons
      all are 11/27/93 with air, from Boston, per person
      double occupancy. The port charges, not shown are same, $87
      per person. I ended up booking this date.

    					White		Cruises of      Diff
    					Travel		Distinction	per
    									person

    	Category I Outside B deck	1,039		1,023		$16
          Lowest deck, #2
          Rate quoted Friday 7/9/93


    	Category D Outside 		1,169		1,089		$80
          Larger outside cabin
          Commodore deck, deck #9
          Rate quoted Monday 7/13/93

    	   NOTE Sun deck (pool deck) is deck #11, 11-2 is long vertical
    	   haul unless using elevator. But exercise is good for you, right?
    	   SOS is one tall big ship !

    	  I booked "D", total of 1089+1089+87+87 = 2352 for 2,
    	  a larger expensive cabin in super location, only
          $132 more than the cheapest outside deep down cabin.

    The interesting thing that I saw was that the lowest rates where close
    but there was a substantial difference on the higher end cabin. The
    White travel rates were quoted 3 days before the other. The rates can
    be very volatile. I had to wait to monday to call Cruises of
    Distinction. It is possible that if I call White on same date
    they may have similar rates ?

    		If you want to do rate shopping great !!

    		If you want to post it in NOTES then be fair and follow
    		reasonable rules to treat agents and other noters fairly.
    		NOTE this does not refer to note 194.17, it refers to some
    		others I have seen where rate comparisons were not fair.

    	1) Rates must be for exact same ship.
    	2) Exact same category of room
    	3) If air included then exact same departure airport !!!
        4) AND COMPARISONS SHOULD BE DONE ON SAME DAY OR NO MORE THAN
           A FEW DAYS DIFFERENCE and if so note the difference. I quite
    	   frankly do not feel comfortable unless same date, the rates
    	   for all can change very quickly.
        5) Specify if port charges and airport charges included. Usually
    	   these charges are fixed for specific itineraies. They have
    	   been going up like crazy. A few years ago typically $25 to $35
    	   for 7 days, now $80 to $100 is common.

    If you are going after low end advertise specials then I think the
    differences may not be extremely large. But it is always worthwhile
    to shop. If you pretty well know what you want then the agents who
    specialize in cruises will do better. The more expensive the cruise
    generally the more you can save.

    If you go down to your local agent, get all the information, pump
    them for all the details, then stick it to them by booking
    on a discount agent to save money, then I do not think that is
    fair at all.

    As for note 194.11 getting a good deal, I am almost certain that
    $1000 ppdo was a good deal for that date. I extrapolated
    from the White and Cruises of Distinction prices and I am fairly
    certain that White would have been $1016 ppdo and Cruises would
    have probably been about $1000 even, both including port charges
    and air from Boston.

    The only thing that you may have done which you still may be able to
    even though it is late for you is to get a better cabin for just a
    little more. As you can see from above I got a substantial upgrade
    for a very small difference. The other thing is you are not in your
    cabin that much so the size is not that important usually, the main
    difference is location. I always use to look at it as extra exercise to
    burn off all them calories. NOTE SOS category K,M,N,O,P,Q inside cabins
    are all the same size and layout to best of my knowledge. Category
    I,H,G,F outside are all same size outside cabins. These inside and
    outside cabins are all same size, but have different layouts and
    outside cabins have either a port hole for I and H, I believe and
    larger square windows for others. D is the first outside cabin
    physically larger with a tub and only by a small amount. C,B, A
    are even larger and much nicer , very expensive and hard to get
    a good discount on usually. I've cruised in the cat N cabin
    before and it is just fine.

    Some other notes. A few years ago with the recession there were
    really good deals as the departure date got closer. This was
    especially true for the traditionall slower weeks. One side affect
    was that many times people booked a year ahead with a small discount
    and then found out that someone who booked a month or so ahead
    even with air got a much better room for much less. This obviously 
    is not good long range business to do this to repeat customers.
    Many of the large cruise lines are now providing much better incentives
    to book earlier, I know RCCL does it, Princess and I cannot remember
    the others but at least 3 other large carriers are doing it. I believe
    Princess and maybe others guarantee that the price you set for your
    room will not be set lower for someone else booking it later.
    What they are doing is adjusting the prices so that all rooms are
    sold out when the ship leaves. For 2 years in a row we have taken
    SOS the last week in NOv after Thankgiving or the first week in
    Dec which are 2 of the slowest weeks, in both cases the ship was
    totally full and I did not hear of anyone getting on for less
    than $900-1000 ppdo with air. I am sure there were a few super last
    minute deals for cabins with cancellations. The thing is the lines
    are adjusting prices on the fly so that they leave with a full
    ship and and highest average price per room possible. They seem to
    be treating the 6 to 12 months advanced bookings much better than a
    year ago. Many small lines may not fully book and still have many
    late specials, one that I've used before was Regency Cruise lines,
    both cruies we went on, the ship was not full and a lot of the people
    were Florida retirees who got on at the last minute in Florida for
    about $350 per person cruise only, even so, ship was not full.

    If you are one of the fortunate few that can afford the really high
    end suites then you probably should book as far in advance as possible,
    these rooms sell out quickly even at high prices. I just have to
    settle with dreaming about getting one of these.

    From my own experience this year I can see a large difference.
    Last year I booked a category I on SOS one month before departure and
    got everything for $1970 for 2. There was still a pretty good
    selection even at that late date. This year on 12 July, 4 and 1/2
    months before departure the selection is much less than last year
    1 month ahead. The total cost for same I room is now $2220 total.
    I think if I waited like last year I might be disappointed. One 
    disadvantage last year with late booking was we had to take early
    seating in dinning room, we like late seating better, but it
    is typically more popular. I assume we got early because of the
    very late booking. We still had a great time, excellent table.

    My mother in law booked on Song of AMerica for Jan 26, 94 which
    was set up by a noter's wife who is a travel agent. It seemed like
    a good price, when I called for my cruise I wanted to see if it was
    a really good price. They only quote on rooms available, Jan 26
    sailing of Song of AMerica has only ONE !!!!!!!! room available at
    this time, cat B at $3500 ppdo. 6 1/2 months ahead and effectively
    booked up, pretty amazing that it already full.

    You may still get a really good deal booking late but I think
    there is a good chance the selection may be really slim.
    For my 11/27/93 departure date the first available inside cabin
    was a category K, so L,M,N,O,P and Q were already gone. Because
    people can reserve for 7 days with no money cabins will pop
    back up on different days because people reserve then change there
    minds. When I called White Friday there was one D cabin available,
    I reserved it, so it was now gone. When I called Cruises of Distinction
    another D had become available so I reserved it at a better price then
    call White and unreserved the other. If I called again say tomorrow
    there might be another available, who knows. Because of the 7 days
    no hassle reserving a room which is not available one day may show
    up a few days later. When there is only 1 room available in a
    category and a client shows any interest then many times the agent
    will reserve just in case.

    Another thing I noticed at least with RCCL, 2 years ago they had
    some deals of booking lowest rate without a cabin assignment and you usually
    got an upgrade. At least  for me this has not been offerred last
    year for Nov or for this year. When we cruised in Dec. 91 it 
    ended being interesting, we got a good deal almost by accident.
    When we went to book we had basically 2 choices we were interested
    in, one was outside category I for $999 each plus port charges. This
    was a guaranteed room with no upgrade, you picked the cabin. The
    other was inside cabin guaranteed for lowest level but with possibility
    of upgrade for no cost if available. This was $899 each plus port
    charges. We decided to just save $200 and take a chance, we knew that
    inside on lowest was ok for us, we had been there before. We ended up
    getting upgraded from inside B deck #2 to Outside Promenade deck #7.
    It was one nice supprise, if we would have pick the guaranteed outside
    room we would have paid $200 more with a much poorer location.

    If you do go with a local agent make sure it is someone
    who knows the cruise business. Many agents only book a few cruises,
    and because of that are not always very helpful or just do not
    know. People who book lots of cruises generally know the details,
    are familiar with all the current good deals, a lots of other things.
    I booked once we an agent who was not familiar and it really showed.

    I would probably say that using Cruises of Distinction could save
    from as little as $10 to 20 per person but could also save you much
    more from $50 to 200 per person or maybe even more, depends on
    who you are comparing against and many other factors. There is
    probably someone else out there that is even better, who knows.

    This silly reply got really long winded but was kind of fun.
    I am glad that noter for 194.17 replied because it did 2 things
    for me. It got me off my tail end to go ahead and book a cruise
    while selection was reasonable and it saved me some money, $160 for two.


    					Harold C.


    

    Re -.1
    
    Glad I had some small part to play in convincing someone to sail the
    high seas.  Thanks also, Harold, for posting the correct phone # for
    COD...my fingers must have taken the day off when I entered .17, as,
    yes, I DO know the area code where I live, AND, I'd meant to say NJ has
    been like a "greenhouse" (temps averaging 102-105).
    
    I agree that any price comparisons MUST be apples-to-apples within days
    if not hours, and also that if you get a lot of advice & assistance
    from a local travel agent, it's not right to then book with a
    discounter (but after all, isn't the advice here in CRUISE_TRAVEL
    sufficient ;-).  
    
    As far as the differences in pricing increasing as you move up to
    better accomodations...sure, that makes sense.  Higher end products
    tend to have more margin both for the manufacturer (the cruise line)
    and for the distributor (travel agent). 
    
    FWIW, I booked on the RCCL SOA for the 10-day 12/5/93 sailing. Even
    managed to convince my Sales Support Specialist (unfortunately TFSO's 2
    weeks ago) and his wife (a Digital secretary) to take their first
    cruise with my wife and I.  
    
    It's been to long since last time, and I CAN'T WAIT!!!!!!!!
    
    Steve_in_NJ
    secretary)

    If I don't find a reasonable 7 night cruise to go on each year then my
    wife would probably shoot me. We would love to try a longer cruise
    such as yours and hope to one day. Currently it is difficult to arrange
    it for our schedule with our 8 year old daughter.
    
    It is amazing that how cruises have gotten better price wise.
    Our first cruise was on the SS Norway (NCL) in 1985.
    WE paid $2600 total for 2 for a room inside, way down and BUNK beds
    to boot for 7 nights. Now I am paying $2352 for a premium cabin
    with beds where they belong, on the floor. Thanks for the name, I will
    apply the $160 to our bar bill.
    
    						Harold C.