Conference 7.286::golf

    Yea, I spent this months car payment on one club.  Feel better now??
    
    
    
    
    Actually I did. When I got my Taylor made 1 wood 9.5 degree loft
    with a titaniam shaft the cost way 169.95+ Dukeasses added 5%.
    
    
    Tom

    
    
    I had a ping look-a-like head, gold boron shaft driver made for
    ninety bucks.  I hit it at least twenty yards further than my
    Ping driver.  Now I get into trouble where I've never been
    before (sounds like Star Trek)....

    re .1
    
    Where did you purchase your Taylor Made 1 wood with the titanium
    shaft?  I'm looking to buy one myself.
    
    Also what are the differences between the titanium shaft and
    the gold graphite shaft?
    
    -John-
    

    re .3
    
    the titanium shaft is made of titanium, the gold graphite isn't

    John,
    
    
      If you really want to spend some bucks, Yonex sell for around $3000.
    I've seen the woods for $300 a pc.  I have a graphite Black Turbo
    driver which I bought from a friend used for $85.  New they list for
    over $160. Hey, if it makes you golf better, we golfers will spend any
    amount.
    
                                                Dean 

Re: .3

>    re .1
>    
>    Where did you purchase your Taylor Made 1 wood with the titanium
>    shaft?  I'm looking to buy one myself.
>    
>    Also what are the differences between the titanium shaft and
>    the gold graphite shaft?

     Maybe the three of us should get together at a range & compare clubs.
     I just bought a 9.5 Taylor made 9.5 Driver with a graphite shaft (stiff).
     Currently I own a 10.5 Driver with a steel shaft (stiff).  I find the 
     graphite shaft whippier (more like hitting regular shaft clubs).

     After I bought it, my game deteriorated (not due to the driver).
     I have ben taking some lessons so I put it one side until my swing
     is back on track.  (The rest of my woods are Taylor made with stiff
     steel shafts.)

     Most of the Pros were hitting graphite shafted Taylor Mades at the
     Open at The Country Club.  

     Larry

    If you feel the club is worth the money and you have the money go for
    it. As far as I know you only go around once. 

    I like all the latest and the greatest hitech dodads and thingilopers
    myself, but no way would I pay those inflated prices for it. 
    Solution 1. 
        The Used Club Barrel at Pro Golf, or someplace like it. 
        There's a lot of hackers out there who think something 
        hitech and real expensive will cure the fact that they swing
        like my aunt Alice. When it doesn't they bring it back as  a
        trade for the NEXT generations of "Quick Fix". And I get the
        hipriced spread for margarine prices. Yuk. Yuk. Just this week
        I picked up a taylor "pittsburgh persimmon" tour cleek (27%)
        for $20 and change. And its brand new! I'll bet the former
        owner only hit it a few times at the range and then dumped it.
        Never mind, its mine now!
    
    Solution 2
    
        My golf smith catalogue says that a stainless metal head
    indistinguishable from Taylor costs $21.50, a Green Victory grip
    is 2.50 and an Adila goldshaft is @48 bucks. They ship for free.
    Add it up yourself. 
    
    Save them Big Bucks for a nice trip to Myrtle Beach or something
    else equally important :-{
    
     

    
    
       Could you tell us were's Pro Golf????
    
    
    thanks
    
    Bill

    PRO GOLF  has shops in about 25 states... 
    
    The only one close to NE according to their ad in golf digest is in ...
    
    NORWALK, Conn.
    203-846-4864

    
>        My golf smith catalogue says that a stainless metal head
>    indistinguishable from Taylor costs $21.50, a Green Victory grip
>    is 2.50 and an Adila goldshaft is @48 bucks. They ship for free.
>    Add it up yourself. 
    
 
    	I have yet to see a Taylor look-a-like from Golfsmith (I
    	can get them from other companies). Green Victory grips
    	are $1.20 in the catalog, and the Aldila HM-40 GOLD shafts
    	for woods are $45.50. Golfsmith does NOT ship for free...!
    	You need to purchase more things then those mentioned above
    	to be able to assemble your own clubs and a lot more know
    	how than to just throw them together...!
    
    	Another option to save some money though is to get in touch
    	with some of the part time custom club makers that frequent
    	this notes file (let's see who are they ;-)...)
    
    	Gene    
     

    re .11
    
    OOOPPPSSS , didn't mean to step on any entrepreneurial toes.
    
    Solution 3
        Order a set of hi quality custom made clubs at real competitive
    prices from on of the part time custom club makers that frequent
    this file.
    
    (ok gene?)
    
    

RE: .12

	I can't speak for Gene but from my perspective your sarcasm is not 
appreciated.  You misquoted the products and pricing of Golfsmith impling that
'part time clubs makers that frequent this file' merely buy cheap components,
slap them together is a half a** way and charge BIG bucks to unsuspecting 
golfers.  You would be well advised to understand your facts before you go
running off at the fingers.



						KO

    
    
    	RE: .12
    
    	Jim,
    
    	The reason for my reply in .11 wasn't to get a plug or sarcasm
    	from you for the club makers in this conference. I just wanted
    	the people that read this conference to know what the facts
    	are. I would expect anybody to correct me if I had put some incorrect
    	info in here (and they do). 
    
    	Gene
    	

    RE .13
    
    KO, any sarcasm or any of the other garbage you (mis)read in my reply
    is all in your mind. I posted 11 because it is indeed a viable
    alternative to the high cost of today's hitech golf equipment and
    one I overlooked. Look before YOU leap, turkey.  Also in my opinion
    components from golfsmith are neither cheaply made or of poor quality.
    Just don't make out like you have to be a rocket scientist to do
    a competent job of assembling and fitting them; either golfsmith
    or the guy up in Ohio will sell you a book on building custom clubs
    that even I can follow. 
    
    P.S. I never said you were half assed, either, I am sure you do a
    great job building a custom set of clubs.  
    
    re .14
    
    Do you guys have a union or something?

    
    	Well Mr. Conway I can see from this note and one or two others
    	that you have participated in, that you are more than willing
    	to hand out sarcasm to all, but I have yet to see your humble
    	side and admit that YOU are/were wrong about something...
	PLEASE correct me if my perception is wrong...
    
    	Gene

    Am I writing/reading the same notes that you are, Kelly? If so the
    "sarcasm" escapes me.    But........I am not trying to knock you
    fellows, I am on your side. I REALLY DO feel that a good semipro
    clubmaker can allow us guys of only average means to enjoy the benifits
    and the cache that would otherwise only accrue to the rich types
    who can afford megabuck equipment. If I have offended you, I apologize,
    I have no interest in starting a feud over this.
    
    love and kisses
    jj 

    
    	Well jj,
    
    	If I have misread/misinterpreted your notes then I am not
    	the only won that has...! I to do not what to cause a war,
    	so lets try to put this to rest..
    
    	Gene
    
    	BTW, I prefer Gene to Kelly and it is KellEy. I would address
  						  ^  
    	you by your first name if you would sign your notes so that
    	I knew what it was... Have you registered yet...?
    	
    
    	****** Now back to our regular programing... ;-) *******

>    Am I writing/reading the same notes that you are, Kelly? If so the
>    "sarcasm" escapes me.    But........I am not trying to knock you

        Just shows you how dangerous electronic conferencing can be.
       You may not intend sarcasm in your noting, but it is getting
       interpreted that way.  I find the tone of your notes *very*
       sarcastic and heavyhanded.  His name is Gene btw(by the way).
       He signs all his notes that way and a common noting courtesy
       is to address fellow noters as to the name they sign.  
        
>    love and kisses
>    jj 

        Example from your note that I would consider sarcastic.    

    -rick

    > "love and kisses"
    If you prefer the type of note,s files where people take cheap
    shots at each other or just want to see what they can stir
    up why don,t you try SOAPBOX. Please leave this file for
    those with a love for the game of golf, how it is played,
    it,s traditions., etc. etc.

    to Cooper and rick
    
    Ok guys, You have all made your point, and I appologized to Gene
    and to KO for giving any offense. In public; in this file. Now, 
    what else do I have to do?
    

    
    Could one of you club-makers describe the process of making
    a club?  I think that I'd like to give it a try, maybe on
    a lobbing wedge or a ginty, something that won't come in a
    set of clubs.  How handy do you have to be?  How much investment
    in tools is needed?  Any welding required?  
    
    Thanks
    
    Jim
    

     To build a wedge, you'll need the following:
    1. a shaft
    2. a clubhead
    3. a grip
    4. some double stick tape (like carpet tape
    5. some strong 2 part epoxy that chemically (not air) cures
    6. several ferrules (you'll break one, at least)
    7. some acetone.
    8. a metal file
     First, stick the shat into the head and mark on the shaft (scratch
    it) the point where the shaft comes out of the neck of the clubhead.
    Rough up the shaft below this point with the file. Soften the ferrule
    in acetone, and slide onto the bottom of the shaft (Narrow end first)
    so that the "fat" part of the ferrule is at your scratch mark. Mix
    the epoxy THOROUGHLY and apply to the shaft below the ferrule, and
    inside the shaft, then slide the shaft tip into the clubhead up
    to the ferrule. (NOTE: if you're building a "PING" type head, you
    don't use ferrules). Let the clubhead set up, per the mfg.ers 
    recommendations. Next, wrap the top of the shaft with double stick
    tape in spiral fashion (leaving a bit of space between wraps) for
    the length of your slip-on grip. Then, put your finger over the
    tiny hole at the butt of the grip, fill it with any solvent and
    pinch it shut at the open end also. Slosh the solvent around inside
    the grip, then pour it over the tape. IMMEDIATELY slide the grip
    over the shaft and align it with the face of the club. If you don't
    know how to do this, use another club for a guide, or, better yet,
    disregard these instructions and buy the wedge, 'cause this ain't
    that tough to begin with.
    
    Good luck;
    
    --Jack

    I have seen several kits for building wedges, drivers, and putters
    in the Golfsmith catalog and I believe the Golfworks catalog. It
    looks like everything is included but I don,t think I would want
    to try and assemble a driver just yet. A sand or lob wedge shouldn,t
    be any big deal though.
    
    THE MAD HACKER

Over this winter I assembled my first club a lob wedge.  It was a piece of
cake.  I plan to tinker more with assembling other clubs, replacing shafts,
etc, this winter.

Now to answer your question "How do you make a club?"  First you find a good
piece of persimmon .... ;-)

Larry

    I am just curious to know opinions about drilling and pinning the club
    head.  I have had the misfortune of having the clubhead come off a few
    times.  Do any of you drill a small hole and pin the club head to the
    shaft along with using epoxy?
    
    Mike

    
    Mike,
    	
    If you are having problems with some of the heads coming loose you
    may not be doing some of the preparation work correctly. You have
    to rough up the shaft tip, rough up the inside of the hosel, put
    epoxy in the hosel and on the shaft tip, putting a little aluminum
    oxide sand on with the epoxy also helps the bonding and of course
    the epoxy has to be mixed properly and of a good qulaity. When I first
    starting making clubs I was pinning the heads to the shaft in addition
    to the epoxy, but it was a lot of additional time/work and it is not
    needed...

    
    Gene

    
    From what I saw at Westminster last year Gene, you should know!!!!

     Mike, what kind of club? Sounds like a wood... If so, was it through
    bored (did the shaft tip come out at the bottom of the club) or
    blind bore (you can't see the shaft tip)? 
     Ya gotta be careful pinning shafts, because you can "miss" the
    shaft or bounce off it, thinking the backscrew is going through
    the shaft when it isn't. Trouble osually results.
     You don't have tp in irons, but make sure you don't plug the shaft
    tip (or the shaft tip which will be inserted into a "blind bore"
    wood, either). In these cases, occasionally a "hydraulic" effect
    occurs during the torque of a swing which breaks the epoxy bond
    and forces the club head off.
    
    --Jack.

    
    RE: .28
    
    Hi Joe,
    
    Just to set the record straight...! I was playing the Yamaha graphite
    shafts at Westminster last year and the shaft broke, the head didn't
    come off...
    
    Gene

    A little off the subject, but follows the
    last note.
    
      A couple of weeks ago my Yamaha driver split the
    shaft in half. What a horrible feeling, watching a $100
    club split in half. Thank goodness I didn't throw the
    club into the woods. Richie at Seacoast Golf replaced
    it with a new one at no cost, with no questions. I 
    was surprised. Just one of those experiences that I'll
    never forget.
    
    Dave

    
    Ya, Yamaha does stand behind their products. The first set of
    Yamaha grafite shafted irons I had were replaced with a new
    set the following year when I was having trouble with them breaking.
    Then when I still had the same trouble with the second set I
    was given credit on them... (this was also at Sea Coast Golf)
    
    Gene

    geez, I tie flys and make flyrods...I think another side business
    will be making clubs....
    
    Gotta buy a book and some clubs....
    
    Stay Tuned..
    
    
    	Jim's Custom Fishing Equiment and Golf Club Shop
    
    
    

    I need to replace some shafts.  The shafts are TT Lite's.  What can I
    get that is stronger and will still fit my clubs?
    
    I seem to recall something about the club head requiring a certain kind
    of shaft.  Brunswick Propel Microtaper's also fit.
    
    Rick

>    I need to replace some shafts.  The shafts are TT Lite's.  What can I
>    get that is stronger and will still fit my clubs?
 
    	Rick, what do you mean by stronger? Do you mean stiffer flex?
    	The TT Lite shaft comes in different flexes (they have a mid
    	shaft bend point)
       
 >   I seem to recall something about the club head requiring a certain kind
 >   of shaft.  Brunswick Propel Microtaper's also fit.
  
    	What type of clubs do you have? Most modern irons take one of
    	two shaft tip sizes, one being a .370 unitized tip and the other
    	being a .355 tapered tip. The Brunswick Propel Microtaper has
    	a low flex point and a much different step pattern.
    
    	I know that both of the shafts that you mention do come in .370
    	unitized, I don't think they come in the .355 tapered tip, but
    	they may...
    
    	Gene  
    Rick

    Hi all,
    
    Sorry for the late reply but I was out today.
    
    The club I had problems with was actually a 4 iron and not a wood.  I
    tried to hit a shot and the clubhead came off (and went farther then
    the ball!?!).  Since I was poor a the time (happened in a college
    tournament) I went to the machine shop and they drilled and pinned the
    club back together.
    
    My current set of clubs (Wilson Staff irons) have small pins in them. 
    I was just curious to know if any of you have done that in your
    clubmaking experience.
    
    By the way,  I only use stiff shafts these days.  I snapped my 3 wood
    shaft in half once (it was a regular shaft).  I guess I need to get
    tough clubs :-) - titanium should do it.
    
    By the way, I don't make clubs for myself.  It's something I really
    should learn about though so reading this note is very enlightening. 
    Someday I would like to go to the PGA school in Florida so I could
    become a class A club professional.  Maybe that will happen when I
    become independently wealthy (probably never :-)).
    
    Hit'em straight,
    Mike

     Mike, For virtually all club repair folks or private individuals
    who assemble clubs, the only time they can pin irons is if the raw
    clubhead has a drilled pin hole , or if a broken club was pinned
    to begin with. Anybody can pin a wood (if you're good, AND careful),
    but nobody I've ever dealt with (other than major repair shops is
    drilling pin holes in iron necks.
    
    --Jack

    to all the Pro, semipro and hobbyist level club builders/fixers
    out there;
    
    Does anybody else other than Golfsmith and Ralph Maltby sell club
    parts and golf oriented tools for the do-it-yourself minded?  If
    so, whould you kindly post some mailing addresses, or failing that
    a name and state will do.
    
    Also, I regripped my irons last winter, but it was kind of just
    to see if I could do it. What indicators do you look for to know
    that it is time to install new grips. Is it feel, or actual visible
    grip wear or just what?
    
    And lastly, what would you consider a bare minimum club builder/fixer
    tool kit?  If this includes any "special" (something you normally
    wouldn't use to fix an 87 toyota pickup) tools please explain what
    they are and how they are used
    
    thanks
    jj

    
    RE: .37
    
    Jack,
    
    As I stated when I first started making clubs I was pinning the
    irons. It just took a long time to drill them and even with the
    cobalt bits they had to be resharpened frequently. I knew Hogan
    pinned their clubs, but didn't realize that Wilson did. 
    
    Gene

>    to all the Pro, semipro and hobbyist level club builders/fixers
>    out there;
    
>    Does anybody else other than Golfsmith and Ralph Maltby sell club
>    parts and golf oriented tools for the do-it-yourself minded?  If
>    so, whould you kindly post some mailing addresses, or failing that
>    a name and state will do.
 
    jj, I think there are some other companies listed in the notes file
    some place, don't know just where. Here are a few, but Golfsmith
    and Golfworks (Maltby) are the biggest for tools etc..   
    
    		Dynacraft also in Newark, Ohio
    
    		Golf Supplies International in Conn.
    
    		Paragon in California
    
    		Sorry I don't have the catalogues with me or I would
    		post the phone numbers...
    
    >Also, I regripped my irons last winter, but it was kind of just
    >to see if I could do it. What indicators do you look for to know
    >that it is time to install new grips. Is it feel, or actual visible
    >grip wear or just what?
    
    	Mostly feel...!
    
    >And lastly, what would you consider a bare minimum club builder/fixer
    >tool kit?  If this includes any "special" (something you normally
    >wouldn't use to fix an 87 toyota pickup) tools please explain what
    >they are and how they are used
    
    	If you have the Golfsmith catalogue as you indicated, you can
    	see what tools are available/needed...
    
    
    	Enjoy
    	Gene

    This notes file has really been interesting reading. As someone
    who has been in the club repair and custom club fitting business
    for ages, it seems there is alot of interest in clubmaking. First
    of all there is alot of technique and knowledge required to do the
    job right. Anyone can learn to stick a shaft in a clubhead and grip
    it. This does not qualify as clubmaking or fitting. You need to
    learn WHAT shaft to select, How to trim it to the individual needs
    of the player, and what style is right for the level of ability
    your player has. 
    
    I'll suggest a few things those interested in learning.
    
    Find a pro or repair shop that will take you on as an apprentice.
    I had the good fortune of learning from an uncle who was a pro and
    was willing to let me "hang around" the shop and learn. That was
    17 years ago and I've been going at for about 15 on my own. To continue
    the learning process, I hooked up with a repair shop in town and
    worked Saturday's for nothing. No pay but the tricks and shortcuts
    are worth a lifetime of pay.
    
    Read as much as you can. Dynacraft has the best book on the market
    for clubfitting. Maltby's is also OK.
    
    Experiment. What I have done was go to garage sales or thrift shops
    and purchase the ugliest clubs available ( you may not even have
    to pay for them ). Take them home and fuss with them. Pull the heads
    off, change the weight, refinish them, or just about anything. If
    you make a mistake, SO WHAT. All you lost was some time and a few
    bucks worth of material. When your ready for the real thing, tell
    your friends. They will do the advertising for you.
    
    Now the turd!!  If you are assembling clubs, you are the "manufacturer"
    Contact your insurance company and look into liability coverage.
    If something should go wrong and a club you assembled hurt someone,
    YOU may have just bought the farm. Or lost it. The country is SUE
    ME hungry. Be careful. This is not something to overlook.
    
    This is a good platform to begin on. Looks like the next year will
    bring me too much competition. I better not tell anymore secrets
    :-) :-)
    
    Good Luck 
    Ken

Another quick question for you club makers...

I have a 1 iron.  It has a fairly new grip.  However, the grip feels too
slippery to me.  Right now, I just put some of that firm grip stuff on my
hands before hitting it.  I would like to know how I can make it tackier
again.

It is a rubber grip (similar to the Victory grips).  If I can't do anything
simple, then I guess I will just get a new grip.

Thanks,
Mike

    
    RE: .42
    
    Mike,
    
    If it is smooth you can try rubbing it with steelwool or a medium
    sandpaper...
    
    Gene

    	Or you could simply have the club regripped at any pro shop
    or just about anywhere that sells golf equipment as it's main product,
    for anywhere from $2.00 to $7.00 depending on the grip you choose.
    
    Beak

     Mike, just run it under HOT water, scrub it with Comet or any scouring
    powder (use a stiff brush), rinse it thoroughly and towel it dry.
    Don't use the Firm Grip - it just clogs the pores of the grip, is
    hard to remove, doesn't last too long, and will tear up your glove
    quickly.
    
    --Jack