Conference 7.286::golf

    Mr Moderator,
    
    	Note 1233.0 is in poor taste and sould be deleted (IMHO)

    
    I personally don't believe the phrases mentioned in the previous note
    have a place in golf. I have about had it with sport being refered
    to in the terms of war. It is my hope that we can rise above all the
    hate terms used such as; kill em, kick ass etc and all the rest we
    hear and read every day. If the Europeans win the Ryder Cup well that
    is fine with me. If the USA brings it home I will naturally be very
    pleased. Just keep one thing in mind before you breach the bounderies
    of sportmanship and that is it is the World against the USA for the
    Ryder Cup. 
    
    Humble in victory a gentleman in defeat
    
    Good luck in the Ryder Cup and may the best team win.
    
    Pete

    Must be some of those liberal democrats from the north east waking up
    from their long winters nap.  I vote for Norman Schwartzkof as the next
    Ryder Cup captain.  If it was not a U.S against the rest, then the
    Davis Cup and America's Cup would go as well.  The competitive spirit
    rides high and the beauty of team events in an individual sport like
    golf is that we can see how these players react to more than the $$$ or
    pound sterling.  Of course the liberals that are against competitiom
    have already figure a way to share the wealth so that you get paid
    based on need instead of ability.
    
    We will see who K.... B  and takes names.  Any more votes for "stormin
    Norman for the Ryder cup captain.
    
    SCD

    
    All the 'old timers' mentioned in the base note simply show how long
    great golf has been played in the USA. I find it curious that someone
    from Europe, a continent rich in history and tradition, doesn't realize
    the significance these people have had in Golf. No question that the
    USA has the best group of golfers over the last four decades, only
    recently have the European golfers made a global impact.
    
    I give the Europeans alot of credit, I think they are superb golfers.
    However, lets wait and see if Faldo, Woosnam, etc still have an impact 
    when they are in their 40's and 50's. Let's see how many majors they
    win in their career. Can they win 20 majors, spread out over 25 years
    (like Nicklaus)? Can they win a major at age 46 (like Nicklaus)?
    I doubt it!!! By the way, not a SINGLE golfer you mentioned ever uses
    an 'electric trolley' in tournament play. 
    
    Perhaps the base noter is too young (certainly sounds immature) to 
    remember the decades of USA domination in both the Ryder cup and Golf
    in general. One of those old timers (Tom Watson) won your precious Open
    8 times!!
    
    I'm sure the base noter simply intended some good natured fun and
    teasing. However, I don't remember the Americans rubbing it in when
    we dominated the Ryder cup for decades. And Americans are supposed to
    be the loud mouthed braggards!.
    
                  -Joe

    
    
    re .2
    
     "the World against the USA for the Ryder Cup"
    
     As you probably know but obviously seem to have forgotten the
     Australians and Japanese do not play for Europe in the Ryder Cup.
    
     Can you imagine how even more one sided the competition would become
     if players of the calibre of Greg Norman, Wayne Grady, Rodger Davies
     and Jumbo Ozaki played for the European Team. As it is, you have a very
     slim chance of winning the Ryder Cup so be thankful that it is not, as 
     you say "the World against the USA". 
    
     ...Derek.
    

     re .5
    
     Tom Watson did NOT win 8 British Opens. I know for certain that he won 
    at least 5, all of them on courses in Scotland. I'm pretty certain his
    last win was at Troon in 1983? He was in contention a couple of times 
    after that but never managed another victory.
    
            Danny.

    RE .5, .7
    
    Quite correct, even the average "immature" golfer knows that Tom Watson
    has won 5 British Opens.
    The record of course going to Harry Vardon, who holds 6 titles and who
    in fact designed my home course.
    
    I will of course acknowledge the fact that USA have had the best
    golfers by far over the past 4 decades, and that the European fortune
    is comparatively recent.
    
    I doubt that anyone is likely to achieve what Nicklaus has done in his
    career, however records are made to be broken. Lets hope that more
    overseas players are given the opportunity to compete in the Major
    competitions held in the USA.
    
    As regard to Stormin Norman being Captain of the next Ryder Cup team,
    is this a referall to Greg Norman ??
    Come on now,he has already turned down the offer of playing for the
    USA team twice, I hardly think that he will consider being Captain.
    After all, even I know he's Australian.
    
    
    
    AMBASSADOR OF EUROPEAN GOLF.

    
    Ah yes, so far in this note we have seen the human race at it's best.
    We have insulted some of the best golfers in the world, dragged 
    ourselves down to the level of the "liberal democrate" hogwash. What 
    a waste. I belive the intention of sport is to bring people together.
    I guess we aren't there yet. 
    
    Pete 

> I belive the intention of sport is to bring people together.
> I guess we aren't there yet. 
    
	Maybe that's because we need a sense of humor first.
	I thought .0 was funny.

    Funny how easily these things run away.  I will be pulling for the U.S.
    team regardless of the age of the players competing.  I think the
    quality of golf will be excellent, and may the best team win.
    
    Rick

The text to my previous note was lost, for some reason. So I'll try 
again...

I thought the base note was pretty funny. Hard to see what's to take 
seriously in it. 

I hope that two of those old timers -- Watson and Wadkins -- do get to 
play on the U.S. Ryder Cup team. They're certainly among the most 
consistent players on the tour these days.

As to the use of war-like language in sport, I agree it's become 
pretty tiresome, but I'd rather see the emotions of a sporting event 
upped by using the language of war than to see the brutality of war 
masked by the language of sport (so often used during Desert 
Storm).

Now, how did I get off on that tangent...

    re.13
    
     > Now how did I get off on that tangent.
    
    It's my fault. I tend to do that to people.
    
    Pete-Jesse_Jackson_got_nothin_on_me

     Gee,this is fun to read.....

    re dneast::stevens
    
    Don't say it just do it.

    
    re: .7 and .8
    
    I don't know what I was thinking when I said Watson won 8 British
    Opens, I know better than that. At any rate, the point I was making 
    was the domination the USA golfers have had, including the European
    major, not the exact number Watson won. If you are interested in
    numbers, how about stating the overall record of the USA in the Ryder
    Cup? 
    
    I think we should all lighten up on the Rydar cup. It has turned from
    a gentleman's game into an fued, and that's not in good taste.
    
                   -Joe

    
    The Ryder cup began in 1927. In the first 50+ years of Ryder Cup 
    competition (excluding the War years when it was not played) the
    USA has only lost 3 times (1929, 33 and 57) and had one tie (1969).
    These statistics are thru 1979. I don't know the exact count for the 
    last five competitions. If someone could fill in the last five, I'd
    appreciate it (remember to include ties, even though the defending
    team keeps the cup)  
    
    I believe it used to be USA verses Great Britain. Does anyone remember
    when it changed to USA verses Europe?
    
                  -Joe

    I am not surprised that someone so intrenched in the recent glory of
    European golf is not aware of who Norman Schwartzkof is.  Most of us on
    this side of the pond know as do many in the Middle East.  Of course
    Europe has always operated to a different drummer.  Just remember the
    words to a famous American song ..."When your runnin' down my country
    boy, your walkin' on the fightin' side of me." (Merle Haggard- Fightin'
    Side )
    
    SCD

    I totally agree with .10 I thought it was a good bit of humor
    to. Unfortunatley us Americans tend to have a thin skin when
    we are the butt of the joke rather than the ones making fun.
    And that is what our Ryder Cup teams have been the last few years, a
    joke !!! Before we complain to loudly about the make-up of the EUROPEAN
    TEAM let's remember that it was Nicklaus his ownself that recommended
    to the British PGA that all European players have a chance to
    play on the Ryder Cup team due to our dominance over just an all
    British Isle's team. Without the other European players being
    included, we would have probably seen the Cup dissapear just
    because everyone would get tired of watching the US teams
    dominate the Brits.
    
    Mad Hacker

    
    re .10
    
     I don't care if the Pope made the suggestion that the Brits should
    expand the selection process and it certainly means absolutly nothing
    to me that Jack Nicklaus suggested it and thank God for thin skinned
    Americans.  
    

    
     As Gary McCord would say:
    
    "this is FUN" !!!
    
    Storm'n NORMAN and the SHARK being rolled into one!
    
     Golf is like "Rocky", you prepare to kick butt,
    go at it , do your best , BUT after it's over , you have a brew
    with the" enemy" , and prepare to go at the next "battle".
    And you can appreciate the talent of other golfer's..
    at the 19th hole.
    
     Wouldn't be any fun any other way, at least not for me.  
    
    
       I like the Lanny Wadkins approach to golf. The course and the
    opposition are there to be taken !! But after it's over,
    Rocky and  Apollo Creed are freinds, and appreciate each other.
    
                Good starter note, and remember, they'll always be a Europe
    as long as there's a RAYTHEON !!
    
    Ang
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
     
    
        
       

    Well put Ang !!!!!
    
    Mad HAcker

    I don't know to much about what is being discussed.....I assume many of 
    these Rider Cup things have been played over the years.
    
    Could someone post the standings.....like how many have each side won 
    and lost.
    
    Thanks for the help.

    Pope, Jack Nicklaus - what's the difference?
    
    Bill

    
    Back to the Base note please !
    
    The origional note was intended purely for humour's sake, fortunately
    most of you recognised the fact.
    Those that did not, had some very interesting replies and I was not 
    suprised by their "Shock-Horror" attitude, in fact it was predictable.
    
    Kiawah was featured on a recent TV Broadcast over here, it looks like
    a good course to me assuming it will be finished on time.
    
    With reference to the actual match, well Golf is a game for all ages.
    It is just unfortunate that I was given the opportunity to poke fun
    at a potential team in a high age bracket.
    
    I hope that there will be more opportunites for me to poke fun at our
    USA counterparts, confrontation makes a healthy mind ! 
    
    May the best team win.
    
    
    AMBASSADOR OF EUROPEAN GOLF.
    ---------------------------- 
    

    As an aside, a recent article in GOLF magazine quotes not only Pete Dye
    but Dave Stockton as well. They both are confident that Kaiweh ? will
    be ready for play at tournament time.
    
    Mad Hacker
    
    p.s. Our boys are getting in plenty of practice on the course so
    they should be ready to play also !!!  

    Funny I've also heard that apart from supplying electric trolleys for
    the US team they are also giving em. Rubber rings for the seats in case
    of piles, plus ointment if needed, extendable ball retrievers to save
    the back when picking the ball out of the hole, chrystal denture mugs
    and I've heard hearing aids to amplify the sound of ball on club. All
    the above of course will bear the legend "Kiawah 1991".
    
    
    Barry.
     

    Re. 28
    
    Barry.....You now qualify for an "AMBASSADOR OF EUROPEAN GOLF" Hat !!
    
    Welcome to the club, other members are invited, but like Barry you will
    have to pre-qualify !
    
    
    AMBASSADOR OF EUROPEAN GOLF.

    re. 28.
    
    Oh and I almost forgot. Can anyone confirm that they are also laying on
    a mobile crane to gently lower them and lift them out of the bunkers.
    This in addition to the Kiawah Island 1991, steredent tablets, denture
    fixative and special areas near the greens to park their zimmer frames
    when putting.
    
    Barry.
    

      What the heck is a zimmer ??  Also, we are actually going to go with
    the little rubber suction cups that attach to the end of a putter grip.
    They will be red, white, and blue with the logo "Kick Butt in 91"
    And remember, we still have Ben Hogan, Gene Sarezen (who aced the
    "Postage Stamp"), Byron Nelson, and Slammin Sammie in reserve.
    If it gets to tough our ace-in-the-hole will be Gary McCord !!!
    
    Mad Hacker 
     I much prefer these types of events over the weekly clown (I mean
    clone) show on the tour events.

    What is a Zimmer. My dear friend it is a walking frame.
    
    Regs.
    
    The Had Macker.

    re:31
    
    He used to manage the Cubs.
    
    SCD