Conference 7.286::golf

    
    
    Hi Tom,
    
    	Did you just say that Greg Norman, Curtis Strange and Tom
    	Watson are finished? Because of money? 
    
    	Seems to me the love of golf is what got them the money...
    
    	I doubt they all said "Geee I can't wait to make a couple million,
    	then I'm going to stop playing this stupid game " 
    
    
    	Gee Tom, didn't you watch the Masters this year? Watson didn't
    	come across as being finished to me...?
    
    	Maybe you meant finished at something else? I just assumed you
    	meant golf.
    
    	Walta

    
    	Yes, I do mean finished because of money, ie; the good life
    	as well as greed.  Both Norman and Strange are all over the
    	world playing for appearance money instead of taking time
    	off, relaxing, and working out the kinks.  Now, I'm not 
    	saying it's only those two - they just happen to be the
    	biggest stars who haven't won squat in far too long.
    
    	Watson?  You won't find a bigger fan than me but, while he's
    	been in contention often, he goes dixie down the stretch.
    	He plays in half the tournaments and he does ok - but not
    	by his standards.  I often wonder whether those alcoholic
    	rumors were true.  
    
    	But in the case of Norman and Strange, I believe that greed
    	and the good life has cost them their careers.
    
    	Btw, this only goes to show how great a mind Nicklaus must
    	have.  No one has more off course distractions than he does.
    
    	Tom
    

    
    Excellent subject really. What effect does the money and the life style
    that follows have on an individual. Not only that but as mentioned
    how well do these players have to play to make money? Go to an outing
    and get a cool 50k. Don't have to win. Just be a nice guy, give some
    swing tips, shoot 75 and off you go. I think the point is well made and
    well taken. The money seems to be hurting all sports not only golf.
    Ball players hitting 250 making a million dollars a year. Players going
    into the free agency market and jumping ship fo the team that offers
    the biggest check. I am not going so far to pick out individuals
    because I don't know how they feel. It may be eating Strange and Norman
    up that they are not playing as well as they hoped or we hoped but I do
    feel the money has a great affect on how hard atheletes work and how
    long they work.
    
    Pete

    
    	btw, I'm not blaming them a bit - and I can't imagine not
    	doing the same thing if it were me.  I'd bet that they
    	make _at least_ 10 times as much money off the PGA tour
    	as they do in tournaments.  
    
    	It will be interesting to see it affect Daly (however, he
    	doesn't even _read_ putts, probably doesn't practice 'em!)
    

	One of the golf mags in recent months had an article on Mike Reid's 
	financials for the last year.  I'll dig it up, it had some pretty
	interesting information.

    
    
    
    	I just feel saying they're finished is a little strong,
    	considering the talent of the three players?
    
    	Every year the quantity of talented tour players increases.
    	Seems in the past there were only a few each year that would
    	win. Now if you win two tourny's, you are leading the pack.
    	Will there ever be another Nicklaus type of player? One who
    	consistently wins tourny's and majors? I don't think so...
    	Faldo came close until he started building muscle, now he
    	may need a season to get his feel back.
    
    	So players like Norman who are "expected" to win play under
    	the most pressure... against very poor odds they'll win. 
    	It maybe more fair to rate players against their top ten
    	finishes... rather than simply say "they're finished" because
    	they haven't won? 
    	
    	I see what you mean about their other $$$ interests maybe 
    	causing their games to weaken... to play well enough to win
    	you must put in the time. And we all know any part time golfer
    	won't win a tourny, maybe a round or two. Maybe their is sooo
    	much cash in their outside activities that they can't refuse? 
    	Then I guess you're right. First they win,... then money demands
    	their time... they play poorly... the money stops ... 
    	they practice more ... they win again  viscious cycle?
    
    
    	Also the money is big for finishing 2nd 3rd etc.   keeps players
    	from going for the win. Money is the route of all evil ! :)
    
    	But Watson, Norman finished? Nahhh.  Curtis maybe.
    
    	Walta
    	

    
    Walta,
    
    Just curious....Norman naaaa. Cutis maybe?!?!?!
    
    Joe
    

    
    	Walta - your "I see what you mean" paragraph is exactly
    	my point.  They're so talented that they do finish near
    	the top with less effort.  When I say "finished", I mean
    	they may win again but it'll be on talent - not sweat.
    
    	Watson has been finished, Curtis is a basket case, and
    	Kite's another one.  I believe he won't be in the Masters
    	either.
    

    
    
    	Of course none of us knows exactly whose golf career is over,
    	being that the sport allows you to play for quite a while...
    	as with Nicklaus Floyd etc. But as Pete said it makes for
    	interesting discussion.
    
    	I see your point Tom... they may very well have lost the drive
    	that made them great players (except Watson) . Something Nicklaus 
    	will never loose.
    	
    	Norman has so much talent, he's always a threat... and with his
    	distance and shotmaking, can always compete against todays players.
    	
    	Watson I feel still WANTS to win badly. Like Nicklaus he remembers
    	his greatness and feeds from it. He was a tee-shot away from
    	entering a playoff with Ian in the Masters... His game was very
    	solid. Maybe he's only "major" motivated? But I don't feel he's
    	finished.
    
    
    	Curtis was crushed when he failed to three-peat the US Open...
    	He seems to have given up, like that was his only motivation
    	for playing. His game looks weak. He's easily distracted. When
    	playing along side Daly he really looked poor. Maybe his game
    	won't return? Maybe even if it did , it wouldn't suffice?
    	I like Curtis and hope he finds the answer to his downfall.
    
    
    	Walta

    
    	Today's USA Today has a big year end wrap up of Golf.
    	Predictions include "Norman will be seen in more commercials
    	than Sunday afternoon finishes".
    
    	Btw, I too like these guys.  I was really trying to add a
    	little zip to this file...
    
    	My dream would be for Watson to dominate again.
    
    

Re: .0

    Are you sure?  I thought that invitations to the Masters & US Open were 
    issued based on several criteria such as finishing within the top n in 
    the previous year's event, winning any PGA Tournament in the last two 
    years, winning the US Amateur the previous year, winning any major 
    within last n years etc.?  Surely these guys would qualify under one of 
    these?

Re: .2

>biggest stars who haven't won squat in far too long.

    I know Strange hasn't done much since the 1989 US Open, but if I'm not 
    mistaken, Norman won 2 or 3 tournaments on the US PGA Tour last year 
    (1990), finished 2nd at least twice, had a number of other top 10 
    finishes & was the leading money winner.  I think he also won the 
    Australian Masters &/or Open & a couple of other tournaments in other 
    parts of the world.

    Clearly he hasn't had a good 1991 season, I think he had only 3 US PGA 
    Tour top 10 finishes & was way down the money list (he even had poor 
    results in the last couple of tournaments in Australia), but if you 
    look back at his record over the last few years it is enviable by 
    anyone's standards.

    To each his own opinion, but it always irritates me when I hear the 
    professional pundits criticise Greg Norman for: failing to fulfill his 
    potential; choking; or, in one case, as not knowing how to play golf (I 
    think that was in the article where he was referred to as the "Great 
    White Einstein" after a poor choice of shot in the US Open in 1990, 
    which put him out of contention).  What is their criteria for a great 
    player?

    I know he has only won one major & failed in the clutch a few times, 
    but the only scientific measure of "world greatness" for current 
    players in golf, that I know about, is the one in either Golf Digest or 
    Golf magazine, which is based on results in tournaments worldwide over 
    the last couple of years with points awarded according to finishing 
    place.  For "US PGA tour greatness" I guess looking at the results over 
    the last few years in all tournaments or just majors (using the same 
    finishing place points system) would be a reasonable measure.  Norman 
    would have to be high on the list of top performers in both cases.

    I don't know what it would look like if you just took the number of 
    wins (either worldwide or just on the US PGA Tour) over the last few 
    years & ranked the players that way, but I expect Norman would be well 
    up that list also.

>Both Norman and Strange are all over the world playing for appearance 
>money instead of taking time off, relaxing, and working out the kinks.

    Professional golf is played at a high standard outside the US PGA tour 
    as well (arguably the US PGA is highest-standard/greatest-test of golf 
    in the world week in week out, but didn't the Europeans hold the Ryder 
    Cup for a while?) so what's wrong with anyone playing internationally 
    as a test of his ability (as well as for the appearance money if 
    they're good enough to be offered it)?  Who is the better golfer, one 
    who is ranked high based on overall international (including the US PGA 
    Tour) results or on US PGA Tour results only?  I think any answer is 
    subjective.

    Anyway, I can't think of another player I'd rather watch (other than 
    perhaps John Daly) than Norman, he's a great competitor, the epitome of 
    a good sport, gutsy, congenial, charitable & human (maybe the fact that 
    I'm a countryman of his is also a factor!).

    I'd be willing to bet that he has not won his last tournament - or 
    major.  Ninety nine percent of the US PGA Tour players would love to be 
    as "washed up" as he is!

    Terrible Grey Guppie!

     Here's some thoughts on each of these guys (By the way, I pretty much
    agree with Walta and Dave W.).
    
    Norman - My favorite guy on Tour. I don't care what he wins (Although I
    hope he stays successful), I just love Norman, his game and his
    attitude. Who else would you rather play golf with, fish with or have a
    beer with ? It says a lot about the U.S. "Clone Tour" when the
    classiest guy on it is an Australian. Norman is good for golf, and he
    puts a lot back in to it. Here's an unrelated editorial comment - how
    many of the folks in this conference belong to the USGA ? It's a great
    way to help Amateur golf, it's tax deductible and it's inexpensive. One
    more editorial comment (Which I've probably made before) - What the
    world doesn't need is more good golfers; what the world needs is more
    good guys that play golf. How well we play is up to us, as well as how
    we act on the golf course. If I happen to play well (For me...) on
    a given day, the rest of my foursome probably enjoys it, but if I try
    to be a good guy to play with (No matter how I play), I can perhaps
    make each of their days a little happier. To me - that's golf. Again,
    purely my opinion. No offense intended.
    
    Strange - Probably one of the most gifted, talented players of our time
    - from his Amateur days at Wake Forest to the Tour. There's no way he
    won't continue to be successful, he's just too good. Perhaps he won't
    have the success he's had in the past - but Curtis can flat out play !
    He is a very intense, private guy, and the only thing that can hurt him
    (I think) is if he "Self-destructs" from the pressure he puts on
    himself.
    
    Watson - I watched him at Pleasant Valley two years ago, and NOBODY hit
    it more pure. This guy is a talent and a half ! I think he's finally
    lost confidence in his short game - who knows ? As good as he hits it,
    he should still be a force, but Watson is an enigma to me.
    
    --Jack

	The December issue of GOLF magazine ran an article on the financial
	aspect of the golf tour.  It included this statement from Mike Reid's
	1990 tax return.  He was 60th on the money list, and isn't one of the
	big guns under discussion.  But I thought this was pretty interesting.
	The article stated that only 22 players had official earnings above
	500,000 in 1990, and that probably only 60 or so pros bank 100,000
	after expenses. (!)

	Mike

income:

		PGA Tour		249,100
		Other tournaments	252,800
		Appearances		 81,400

	     Endorsements:
		Mizuno			 38,100
		Dunlop balls		 16,400
		Dunlop visors		 10,000
		Aureus			 10,000
		Dunlop equip (Japan)	 10,000
		Dunlop clothes (J)	  6,000
					-------
					674,000

expenses:

		Accomodations		 19,400
		Airfare			 28,700
		Caddie			 56,800
		Charities		 62,100
		Business Mgr		 36,700
		Interest		 17,000
		Entry fees		  2,300
		Fed tax			165,700
		State tax		 32,800
		Foreign tax		 40,100
		
		...			    ...
				
					-------
					484,200

net				       +189,800

    Anyone care to bet Norman won't win a tourney in the next 5 years...
    
    The houses in Vegas would take as much of this action as they could
    get.
    
    Dan

    
    Hi Jack,
    
    	I love watching Watson play... I taped the 4 rounds of the 91
    Masters and like you said, he really hits it pure. I was reviewing the
    3rd round again, and it was fun watching NIcklaus and Watson going at
    it! One of my most favorite moments in golf, is when on the (16th)
    par 3 @ Augusta , Nicklaus after making a quad on the 12th... is
    putting for his fourth straight birdie, a huge 40+ footer uphill
    with a severe left to right break at the cup... he drains it! The
    crowd went CRAZY, Jacks looks to the heavens as if to say thanks.
    
    Standing on the side is Watson... he has about the same putt just a
    little closer. The crowd is still murmuring as Watson lines up his 
    putt. I started to think to myself, "poor Watson, how can he possibly
    get this close after such an event, hope to God he doesn't three putt"
    The he strokes it, .... the camera angle is great, as the putt is
    dieing , it breaks hard right dead center! Magic!
    
    	Walta

    In reference to a couple back on betting Norman won't win a tournament
    in the next five years, I WILL TAKE YOUR BET!  I remember those times
    that Norman lost in a playoff was not because of him.  It was because
    either his opponent got a sandshot into the cup, or 177 yds away
    (Gamez) into the cup etc.  Norman is a good quality tour player. 
    Every dog has his day.  Just look at John Daly now.  He is hot on the
    tour and everyone says look out for him.  They said the same about
    Norman a few years ago.  What, if the player does not perform to the
    critics standards they are washed up?  B.S.!!! Norman WILL win again,
    and I say in the next year, not five.  Don't be glorifying Daly to
    much, there is always somebody better.  
    
    My summary,
    Norman-will win again soon.  
    Strange- to many problems right now.  Look for him next 2 years for 
             rebuilding.
    Watson- don't under estimate the long shots.  they come in to.
    Tom Kite.  Take him off the grill, he's done.
    92 masters pick-Look out for Ian again.  By the way, April 9-11 is
    coming up real soon. Get ready.
    
    Bob
    

    re .16
    
    Bob,
    
    Sorry if I wasn't clear in my note.  I agree with you.  I think Norman
    is still one of the premier players in the game (read the title of my
    note).
    
    Later,
    Dan

    
      Mike , real good income and expense info on "Radar".
      Glad to see he gives 62K to charity .
      
      As for Strange, Watson , and Norman
      Strange's "sway" weight shift may be getting to him
    
      Norman 3 years ago started copying "Jack's" set up routine
    
      And Watson couldn't putt like he used to.
    
      and Tom Kite for more distance revamped his whole swing
      ???? which has cost him his short iron game ?
    (  If it ain't "broke", don't fix it ??)
    
      For pure "watchability" I'll take Lanny Wadkins , Craig Stadler,
      Tom Watson, Payne Stewart ,  Ian Baker-Finch , Joey Sindalar,
       and the Cape's own, Jim Hallet.
     mtcw , Ang
    
      
          
    
      
    

    For more fuel for this fire, read "Victims Of Their Own Success,"
    in the January 92 Golf Digest, which discusses the "disappearances" 
    of Curtis, Greg, Mark Calcavecchia and Nick Faldo. Norman is quoted as
    saying (about his off-course activities), "I can't wear six hats and
    perform to the best of my ability...I honestly believe everybody's got
    to be humbled before they appreciate what they have." Sounds like he
    means to play more tournaments next season, which is fine with me. And
    if he wins one in the first three months of 92, he qualifies for the
    Masters. Or, they could grant him a special exemption.
    
    	Frank