Conference 7.286::golf

    
    	I picked one up late in the summer.  Found it to be extremely
    	helpful.  It will take a bit of patience and in my experience should
    	be treated as a training aid. Definitely worth the investment.
    
    	Walt    

RE .0

I wonder what the rules say about your friend putting that club in his bag?

If its the 15th club, is there a penalty?

If its the 14th club, is there a penalty for a nonconforming club?

Rule meisters, come forth!

Bob

    i remember a player being penalized for having an extra
    club (his son's plastic toy) in his bag.  No mention
    of nonconformity was made.  Maybe there was no need
    to as it put him over the 14 club limit
    what makes a club non-conforming?
    
    black nicklaus

    I think it would be non-conforming because it's not got a "straight"
    shaft, and has a "non-fixed" head.  That should only be a problem if
    he actually uses it during a stipulated round, as long as he only has
    14 clubs in the bag.  Of course, if he did use it he would also be
    breaking the rule about practicing on the course, right?  (And we
    wonder why so many laywers play golf!)

                                Andy Ostrom

    So, what I plan on dong is carry the training tool (MEDICUS) in my bag
    along with 14 real clubs. (the story about the pro that got DQ'd for
    having his sons club was..the sons club was a real club cut short. 
    Technically, it could be used in a pinch)
    
    Now, as far as practicing on the course, I have seen pro's take
    practice swings..so, couldn't I take a practice swing with my
    "training tool" while waiting to take my turn?  
    
    I don't think I have to give up one of my 14 clubs to be able to carry
    this club.  I also think that I should be able to take a few practice
    swings with it as long as I don't hit a ball and of course don't slow
    down the pace of play.
    
    Are there any real rules about this?
    
    -john

    
    if it isn't a 'club', then it shouldn't count towards the club limit...
    after all, nobody gets penalized for carrying an umbrella.  If you
    can't hit the ball legally with it, it's not a club.
    
    /jim
    

    Give the USGA a call and ask.  My 'guess' is that it would be illegal
    to carry it as a 15th club and/or to use it in actual play.  If it were
    one of 14 and used in a practice swing only I can't see how that would
    be a penalty.
    
    If you do find out that it would be in violation, for some reason,
    don't ask your playing partners to if it's ok regardless.  Agreeing to
    ignore a rule is a penalty for all.
    
    I can remember playing with a guy who proudly showed me a two-sided
    chipper that he used all the time.  Frankly, I couldn't have cared less
    but informed him that he should not use it in a tournament because it
    was an illegal club.  Well, he got really ticked at me for that one
    even though I was trying to save him from a possible bad situation. 
    

I believe the rule is, it is not a club so it doesn't count against the 
14-club limit, i.e. it's ok to have in the bag. You can use it freely up to 
the point of playing the first stroke, i.e. teeing off on #1. After that, 
the rules against practicing apply, i.e. it stays in the bag during the 
round.

    a two-sided chipper is illegal?
    
    i used to have a putter that could be used right
    or left handed.  is that also illegal?  if not,
    why not?  it would seem to be the same as the
    chipper?
    
    black nicklaus
    

If this is the same 'club' I've tried out at Nevada Bob's, it CAN be used to
hit balls.  So I'll bet its classified as a non-conforming and/or a swing aid,
both of which would be illegal just have in your bag.  And if you can't use
it on the course, it doesn't make any sense to carry it around as extra weight.

Anyway, (on the pracice tee) it seems like you have to have a certain type of
swing to keep it from breaking down.  I seems to me that you have to mold
your swing to suit it rather than it making the swing you have better.  There
are alot of 'weird' swings out there that work pretty well that could sustain
damage from trying to use it - pros included.

fwiw,

Bob

    Don't have the rule book with me, but I'm positive that a putter is the
    only club that can have two surfaces to strike a ball with.  Any other
    club, including those chippers, with two sides to strike the ball with
    are definitely illegal.
    
    That doesn't mean that you can't turn an iron around and hit it with
    the back side or spoon if you're up against a tree.  I've actually
    managed to pull off a pretty good shot (thanks to Jack Nick.) with this
    method.
    

According to decision 4-4a/14 a weighted training club may be selected as one of
the 14 clubs carried by a player, provided it conforms to rule 4-1.

Rule 4-1b it says the shaft must be stright with the same bending and twisting
properties in any direction.

Therfore the mecus dosn't conform to rule 4-1b.

    
    Oh that's to bad. I just bought a whole set of mecus iron and woods.
    1 iron thru sw and 3 woods. Does that make them legal now? They
    all have the same properties. 
    
    Pete ( the guy with the five iron wrapped around his neck)

    M E D I C U S not mecus.  This is a 5 iron with a hinge in the shaft.

    Ya that's the one, Medicus. Love that hinge thing. So are my Medicus
    clubs legal now that I have a whole set of matching hinges clubs?
    

    No.  The rule says that any club must have the same bending/twisting
    characteristics in any direction, not that all your clubs have to be
    the same.  This is to prohibit aerodynamic shafts, etc.  You now own
    a WHOLE SET of illegal clubs!  ;-)

                                   Andy

    
    why on Earth would anyone want a set of these?  You're not hitting the
    ball anyway, right?
    
    (I have a hinging bag you might be interested in, too)
    
    ;)                 
    

    
    Hi Pete,
    
    	A whole set of medicus irons ... hmmmmmmmm    NOT !
    
    	C'mon Pete, be nice... not all these nice people know 
    your sarcastic nature!
    
    	I like the medicus club.. everytime I swing hard/quick it breaks
    and I have to stop in the middle of my swing, or try to hit the ball
    on the hinge. If I took a set of them out on the course It'd take me 
    about 8 hours to play nine holes :) . I'd need about 5 pratice
    swings per shot before I could get the hinge to stay connected!
    
    	One thing about Tempo you should think about... look at how quick
    Nick Price is... and then imagine him trying to use the medicus? Then
    check out his 1993 earnings $1.5 million give or take a couple
    hundred thousand? Some people just don't run that slow by default.
    Their natural tempo is rock and roll, not Art Linkletter speed.
    
    	geesh what a motormouth I am, just popped in to bust Pete , and
    now my fingers hurt!
    
    	lata,
    
    	Walta
    	

    
    re: -.1 
    
    	I don't believe that speed per se has much to do with making a
    	swing good or bad, and I don't believe that the medicus or similar
    	clubs have much merit.  
    
    	I think that what matters is _balance_.  To the extent that most
    	of us can't swing too hard and still maintain proper balance, then
    	slower is better.  But remember that power == clubhead speed, so it
    	seems to me that the goal is to generate speed, but be in perfect
    	control and balance.  I don't think that this is what the medicus
    	club promotes.
    
    	A device that measured how well balanced you remain throughout
    	the swing as well as the clubhead speed and/or clubhead momentum
    	sounds more appropriate to me.  'course, it sounds like it would
    	be a lot more expensive than a fancy hinge, too.
    
    		;)

    While you can't bring the Medicus back too quickly, you can generate a
    lot of clubhead speed with it (without breaking the hinge) if you swing
    it properly.  You have a good point, though.  A slow backswing isn't
    mandatory for a great swing/clubhead speed, but it's probably easier
    for most amateurs to stay slow to maintain balance -- many do waste a
    lot of clubhead speed on the backswing...
    
    -- dg

    One think I remember vividly from reading some of Jack Nicklaus'
    writings is that he says he is forever in debt to his early teacher
    (Jack Grout?) for making him learn to swing the club 100% all the
    time, BEFORE worrying about where the ball went.  He clearly
    maintains that you need to SWING the club through the ball, not try
    to control it into the ball.  Wouldn't the medicus tend to encourace
    you to try to steer the club with your hands?
    
                                Andy Ostrom

    The Medicus doesn't really make you learn to hit the ball with your
    hands.  I'm sure others with various swings have seen it break down at
    different points, but once I get it started with a slow-but-fluid take
    away, I can swing it pretty hard (and hit balls with it) without it
    unhinging.
    
    Davis Love III endorses it, but then again, they pay him to say nice
    things about it.
    
    -- dg

    
    For Sale: Medicus irons: 1 thru SW
                      Woods: 1,3 and 5
                      
                             Includes: Recently purchased hinged bag
                                    
                      Price: $27.00                   
                     Walter: $1800.00 + two free putting lessons

    
    
    reply Pete,
    
    Ouch.
    
    I detect a another early spring rematch at the Cape Cod CC???
    
    No strokes.
    
    	Walta
    
    
    PS. My turn to drive.

    
    Can hardly wait. Good time last year.
    
    Pete
    
    

    I fnid the Medicus does not hinder how hard I swing the club.  There
    can only be one fastest point in the swing.  It should be at the moment
    the club goes through the ball.
    
    Re Jack N.:  He and Jack Grout said that a player should start by
    hitting the ball hard and far.  After you can do that, they would then
    work on making it go straight.
    
    -John

    Arnold Palmer's dad taught him the same way. Two great drivers of the
    golf ball - hmmmmmmmm ....
    
    __Jack