Conference 7.286::golf

to get all women off the course!!!! ;^)

    Joe,
    
    You are something!!!!!  You just wait.....I'll get ya.
    
    L

	acutally Linda, I didn't mean off the course completely.
	I like those booze carts that they drive around in at 
	the resorts.....could you start a program like that at
	NCC?!?!

Mmm... Joe, not bad goals :-)

But again, need some seriousness here, otherwise, I could get in trouble with my two 
women (wife and teenage daughter, who speaks more strongly about male chavinism)

Let's see, goals. Nothing new, but how about:

1. To have fun. Boy, do I need this. After this winter and the "restructuring" we are 
going     through in MCS, I need some fun

2. Change my standard ball trayectory to a draw (I just like it better, even if my fade is 
not too bad)

3. Improve (dramatically) my short game. I need help!!! My pitching, chipping, and sand 
shot have a long way to go

4. Get me a set of burner bubble irons (this one is pretty remote)

5. Have even more fun

	Tavo,

	actually, it's pretty funny that you mention the fact
	that you want to chage from a fade to a draw. about 5 
	years ago I did the same thing. I was a natural fader
	and wanted to draw the ball to get a little xtra distance.
	well I did it, without much improvement in my game,  but 
	now what I also have is a natsy pull-hook that comes out 
	on holes with OB and/or trouble to the left, every time!! 
	(the old double cross, whatever the hell that is) and it 
	scares the hell out of me to stand on the 14th tee at 
	the Nashua Country Club (Linda will know what I'm talking 
	about - parking lot!!!)
        
	I was thinking just last night that it was time to go back
	to my "natural" game of left to right.

	I don't know if "I just like it better" is good enough
	reason to switch. It was a lot of work that admittedly
	is nice when it works, but makes me wish I could cut the
	ball again.....just a little.

	If you decide to do it, good luck....and FORE LEFT!!!!

	Joe

    Joe,
    
    Booze carts at NCC, I'll jump right on that, Sir.  I'll be 
    waiting for you in the parking lot so that I may serve you 
    on either the 13th or 14th, depending on which hole you 
    pull-hook your shot or maybe it will be both holes.  Would 
    you like a glass for that Bud light?  I could also wait for 
    you to come in at the 18th and drive you over to the club 
    house, it's such a long walk after 18 holes!  Or would it 
    be better to follow you around the entire course just in 
    case you think of something else?  Do you think a member
    would appreciate a booze cart? 
    
    L
    
     
    

My goals this year are as always - drop off some more strokes off
the ol' cap.  Better iron play, improve putting.  And most 
importantly - play rounds in under 5 hrs!  I wouldn't mind an
eagle thrown in there, either...

Regarding women golfers, etc.  (I realize the prior posts are just
poking fun)  I'm a member at Norton CC, and I've found some of the 
fastest players are the women.  Here's why:  when they're 200 yds
away from a par 4 (or less for many of them), they go ahead and hit.
They all do this since they understand they have little chance to
get on the green.  If *everyone* did this, it would speed up play
quite a bit.  I play with these old geezers who lay up if they have
to carry anything over 150 yds.  But, dammit, if they're 200 yds out,
they'll wait just in case they hit a career shot.  And the slowest
players at Norton CC?  They are the single digit hdcprs.  They play 
as if every putt is life/death.  Looking at it from 6 sides, etc.

I played a round one saturday at Montaup CC, in RI and I was in a 
group of 3 men.  We were playing at a decent pace, and as a group
we scored pretty well - 82, 85, 89.  But, practically the entire
round we had this 3some of older ladies who were on our butts the
whole day!  At one point one member of my group said in his best
Butch Cassidy voice "Who are those guys?"

BTW - the 14th hole at NCC (as it's described) reminds me of the 
1st hole at Montaup.  Long par 4, OB down the entire left side,
since a road is there.  Luckily the 9th fairway is just to the 
right of the 1st, so the smart play for us occasional pull-hook
types is to aim at the 9th fairway...  groups playing the 9th
don't seem to agree for some reason.

-Eric

I guess I do have a reason why I want to change to a draw. Well a couple.

First, I tend to go lazy on some swings and then it happens the opposite to 
your efforts: BIG BANANA.

Second, I believe (and this is just something in my hard head) that if I 
manage to control my swing to the point that I can change it from what comes 
more natural to what doesn't, I would understand much better how it works 
and be able to be a better player.

But yes, in my efforts to play a draw I overdo it an watch out! my left hand 
comes over my right so fast (I'm a lefty!) that a pull hook is nothing 
compared to what happens, bigger than a duck hook, a goose hook! I think 
that I am still not enough inside-out to make  a draw more natural so I have 
to compensate with a strong roll of my wrist which brings this problem out. 
I started concentrating in starting my down swing by first planting my right 
foot, which makes bringing the club down on an inside out path more natural 
and I am starting to see some nice draws, but still need to work on it.

But again, first and foremost, I want to have fun.

I know some players never get one and some get more than their share.  I've been
soooo close a couple of times.  I knocked one in the hole on the fly and it came
out faster than it went in.  I've rolled one over the edge of the cup and
stopped it 1 foot directly behind the hole.  Maybe this will be the year!!

I'd also like to get my official homecourse handicap down to single digits. 
It's been as low as 11 a couple years ago but lack of play last year took its
toll.
							JT

P.S. I have a short (65 yards) practice hole in the backyard on which I've  
  	recorded 3 aces (the latest this week) but I have no witnesses ;^}

    
    I'd like to improve my short game.  Putting to be more precise.  I
    waste 3-5 shots per round on the greens.
    
    
    RE:  Norton CC
    
    Eric,
    
    I'm a member at Norton.  Funny that I've never met you.  What group do 
    you normally play with?
    
    Dan

I'd like to seriously improve putting.  I played last week, and 
had four 3putts.  All four were 3putt bogeys.  I don't hit a 
great number of greens, so they were especially tough to take.

Re: Norton CC

Dan -

I just joined last year, so this is my 2nd year.  Last year I played
mostly Gangbusters, but got kind of bored with it late in the year.
I did play a few rounds in the Blues Brothers group, and found it to
be more fun.  I'm considering playing in that group this year, although
my hdcp isn't quite down to a 15 (17 right now).  I played with a few
of the BBs last year, and they said join their group anyway.

How about you?

-Eric

	Hit the ball more solidly.  I tend to make contact towards
	the toe and I need to correct that.

	Make sure to hit a shot on every shot.  If it's a draw up the
	right side, make that swing.  If it's a cut punch, make that
	swing.  Don't no-brainer it towards the middle - hit a shot!

	"Find my game" (In a strong Scottish accent)

	Continue to take Walta's money...

	p.s. - to hit a hook, watch the Pro Bowlers Tour.  Most of them
	make a strong power move and toss it out over the gutter.  

	Instant hook!

I do this all the time.  I *think* I know why i do
it.  I have a picture of me addressing the ball a
month ago while in Hawaii, and it tells a lot.  Everything
looks decent, except it's clear my weight is on my toes.
I think what *I* do, is when I get the club back down
in the hitting area, I tend to shift my weight more neutral
in my feet, and therefore the clubhead moves, and I hit
it off the toe.

good luck!

-eric

>        Continue to take Walta's money...

Hey Tom, How come Walta said the opposite :-)

BTW, He oughta be pretty busy, he hasn't enter a note in a long time.

    All kidding aside, my goal this year is to get my handicap below
    20.  My handicap went up one stroke last year because we sold our
    home and moved to a condo.  With all that goes on with moving, I 
    didn't play as much last year and it showed.  Having fun on the
    course always keeps me relaxed, that keeps my swing smooth, so
    fun is certainly one of my plans also.
    
    

	I wanna break 80, I was all over it last year, but could'nt get thru'
	the barrier, this year it will happen, I've been working on my putting
	stroke all winter, and am confident that with just a little course
	management, and concentration I can shoot in the 70's, we'll know 
	soon enough...

	Turk

    
    	Hi Tavo - you know that Walta's throwing you a line.  He's
    	always buying after the round.  Tony Jordan took so much
    	from him that he had to claim it on his taxes as a small business!
    
    	Tom
    

    
    Gentlemen Gentlemen...
    
    	Take Walta's money??? Is that what Tom said? 
    
    	You would think Tom would have enough common sense to enjoy
    	his past conquest in the quiet of his mind.. rather than
    	eliminate any future chance of repeating such a rare feat,
    	by igniting my previously dormant competitive fire?
    
    	BUT NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO... ( Steve Martin )   
    
    	So 
    
    
    	My goal this year is to ( quitely ) enjoy the fine collection 
    	of various monetary returns I shall acquire as I traverse from course
    	to course playing golf with a fine collection of my friends. I
    	promise to do my best in making their defeat(s) a fun and
    	memorable occasion... :)
    
    	Aren't you guys/gals just dieing to play golf on a nice WARM
    	sunny day with absolutely NO snow within a lightyear of
    	the course!!!!!!!!!!
    
    	think warm;
    
    	Walta
    
    	

    
    
    WOW!!
    
    	Well...   my partner Bob and I played Tom and Tony this weekend
    	at BayBerry Hills in West Yarmouth. Course was in great
    	shape.
    
    	We were on the receiving end of the most spectacular best ball
    	scoring I have ever scene, or heard of for that matter. My partner
    	and I came off the front nine with a best ball score of even par.
    	They shot best ball 2 over (38) even though their scores were
    	41 and 43 . So we were lucky enough to have won the front nine
    	1 up .
    
    	Then came the back nine :( ... we were best ball +2 (38) and
    	they were best ball -2 (34) !! The best part is they did it
    	with scores of 40 and 42 ! 
    
    	So even though they shot scores of 83 and 83... they ended up
    	with a best ball of 72 (even par) .  
    	
    
    	We got pummeled on the back... so we lost the nassau and a
    	couple of presses. If this is any indication of how the
    	rest of the season is going to go, I may need to flip some
    	burgers on the side to support my golf game!!
    
    	
    	Now my goal this year is to not lose as much money as I lost
    	this weekend! :)
    
    	Walta
    
    
    	

Gees, Walta, so Tom was right, he is on the receiving end.

Flip one burger for me :-)

I'll take mine with cheese, please Walta'  ;^)

Just to let everybody know, even though Wally and his partner ended up paying
Tom and I, it was a great match.  Wally was gracious when it came to the 19th
hole.  It won't be easy to beat Wally this year if his 1st round of the year (79)
is any indication of how he'll be playing this year.

Good shootin' Wally.

My goal:  1) To give Wally and his partner another chance.  
	  2) To make mo' money.


tj.

    
    	Yes, it was a great match!  Mass quantities of lobster friday 
	night, darts, and Walta doing a killer Chris Isaak karoake 
	over a brew or three.
    
    	If you've ever doubted his passion for golf, he setup the VCR
    	he brought and we were watching the Players at 2:00 a.m.!!
    
    	Walta played great - could not miss from inside 12 feet!!  But
    	Tony and I ping-pong'd for a 72 with a pair of 83's.  
    
    	Wally is 1-up for low round - he was mid-season form!!
    
    	Nassau, 3 presses, $1 for 3 putts, sandy's, barky's, 
    	watery's, birdies, OB's, lost balls,...  Walta bets on 
    	every swing!!
    
    	Tom

    I've played all of them except barky's, anything to do with trees??

	Linda,

	Sara (my wife for all others) came up with a good one 3
	or 4 years ago. The 4th hole, a longish par 3 at Nashua,
	runs parallel to a set of train tracks. Sara and I were 
	playing, golf that is, one day and there happened to be 
	4 or 5 train cars parked on the tracks. Well I hit a nice
	screaming 4 iron that went about 100 yards at the pin then 
	took a right at the lights and hit the train broadside.
	WHAM!!! It bounced out into the "fairway", a chip and a
	putt later and as Sara said, I had a "choo-choo"!!! 


	Joe

    
    hi Everyone,
    
    	A choo -choo ? :)  Thanks for the laugh !! That's wins most
    	funny!
    
    	A barky is when you hit a tree... and still make par. Key is
    	your opponent must hear the noise of the ball hitting some
    	part of the tree to agree to it being a barky.
    	
    	When we played Tony and Tom... they took barky's to a new
    	level. By nailing trees that weren't that far off the tee 
    	they knew we would here it... sneaky or what! And they cleaned
    	up ... I think they had four barky's over 18 holes .
    
    	They both played great... and speaking of karoake(sp) Tom
    	actually had everyone at Molly's standing and dancing. He's
    	unbelievable!
    
    	Can't wait for the rematch though... except for the barky's! :)
    
    	Walta
    
    

    
    	But Walta - you two hit it the woods 3 times more often.
    	You just missed the trees all the time.  Or hit it so
    	deep into the woods that only the animals heard it...
    
    	This is going to be a great year!
    
    	Tom
    

    Joe,
    
    So you took a right at the lights on #4 and ended up with a
    "choo-choo", I'm impressed!  I love when the trains are moving
    slowing when I am playing #3 & #4, I find it soothing to listen
    to for some strange reason.  
    
    Now tell me, besides a hole-in-one, what could we call it if you 
    had gotten a hole-in-one off the train!?
    
    Linda                                   

the most pure shot I ever hit

    of course, no pictures on the scorecard

I wanted to wait until I had actually swung a club this season before
replying here. I've been to the range 3 times in the last 4 days, but I
haven't played a course yet this season. (Weather permitting, tomorrow will
my first opportunity!)

What a difference a Winter makes! For some reason unknown to me at the
moment, I have hit *really* well at the ranges. And that's after only about
4 months of play (first year, too) last season and no swinging this past
winter.  I feel pretty confident about my long game (heh, heh), althuogh I
can certainly stand to improve. Goal number 1.

My short game (at least at the end of last year) needs LOTS of work. If I
can keep my long game good, I hope to really concentrate on the short
stuff. Goal number 2. 

And I know: It takes practice, practice, practice!

-Mark

Hey Mark, keep that attitude all year long!!

Remember, golf is a mental game!

    
    Re: .16
    
    	Take it from a guy who finally broke 80 last year. It WILL come. I
    believe the key is to stop thinking and let natural ability take over.
    If you're shooting low 80's constantly, it's the next logical step,
    right?
    
    	When it happened for myself, that mark was shattered with a 74 and
    later 78's. After that it felt like all the pressure just floated away. This
    year started off peachy with a 79 after only the second round! Keep the
    faith and remember to play the course as it was designed to be played.
    ie: Drive to middle of fairway. Hit the green. Always give yourself a
    chance for par(or birdie if possible) when putting. You also have to
    par the 3's. No excuse for anything else.
    
    Good luck from a Canadian who yearns to play the deep south.
    
    Ein Prosit!

    So...how is everyone doing so far with their goals this year?
    
    Linda
    

a little early to call, but:


>lazy swings

Still happens, for I am more focused on not to happen

> draw

happenning (not consitent though) but not with woods

>I want to have fun.

ALL THE TIME!

I have a new "outlook" on my goals as a result of last night's round, where
I bogied one par 3 an parred another. 

On each of these par 3 holes I reached the green off the tee, something I
don't often do (but I seem to be doing it more now. :-)  On the second par
3 (which was the last hole) a member of my foursome suggested that beating
7 (for two par 3's on a 9 hole round) should be my immediate goal for the
future. In other words, don't sweat the whole game, but rather, work on one
piece at a time.

Even trying to play "par par 3 golf" I'll have to work on everything, but I
thought it was an interesting way of approaching the collossal task of
improving one's game.

Once I can consistently make par on par 3 holes, I'll move on to making
par on par 4 holes, and so on.  Sounds like a plan to me... :-)

-Mark

    I've been able to bring my handicap down 1 stroke already so I'm
    feeling really good about my goal of getting below 20 this year.
    
    Linda

I finished reading a book named "Golf is not a game of perfect" by Dr. Bob
Rotella. It does not have any golfing tips on putting/swinging/chipping/etc..
It does go into the mental aspects of the game. 

I have applied the philosophy to my approach to the game. Here are a few of the
ideas in the book:
1. Each shot is a new adventure. 
2. Don't find your swing on the course, that belongs on the practice range.
3. Choose only the clubs you feel confident about hitting.
4. Trust your swing.
5. Don't add up your score til the round is over.
6. Dwell on the positive. The brain can't cope with "don't". (Like
	Don't hit it in the water. Brain focuses on water).
7. Pick small targets down range. The smaller the better.
8. When putting, pick a blade of grass if near the cup or if its a long putt,
	pick a mark on the green.

I am finally starting to break 100. I leave the monster clubs that send me
deep into the woods in the car. I play conservative golf now and concentrate
on getting the ball in the cup. It finally dawned on me that we count strokes,
not yardage. Two putts totalling 15 feet count the same as one 250 yard shot
into the woods. 

Anyway, I recommend the book. 

    Re: -1 Bob Rotella's book
    
    I am also reading "Golf Is Not a Game of Perfect".  It has really
    helped my mental attitude a lot.  Here are a couple more of my
    favorites from Rotella's Rules:
    
    1. Play the shot you know you can hit. 
    	(This is my Number One stroke saving mantra!!!)
    
    2. A golfer must accept the preeminence of the short game.
    
    3. Choking occurs when you let anger, fear, or doubt distract you
    	before a shot.
    
    4. Attitude is what makes a great putter.
    
    I recommend it. It is very readable, with lots of anecdotes, and
    an easy, conversational style.
    
    Louise
    
    	

    
    	Being a 22 handicap I try and keep things simple and have a goal
    of breaking 90, 2 or 3 times a season. Here are some of things I
    work on.
    
    - Pars and Birdies will take care of themselves, think Bogey on EVERY
      hole, Bogey golf is 90.
    
    - Keep the ball in play and avoid penalty strokes, a 220 yrd drive in
      the fairway is better then a 250 yrd drive in the woods. Leaving
      approach shots to greens anywhere from 130-180 yrds. On Par 5's, I
      can't reach the green in two, so I concentrate on hitting the ball
      somewhere in the 100-150 yrd range for my third shot.
    
    - Aim for the middle of the green and not the pin on approach shots.
    
    - Hitting approach shots of 100-180 yrds on Par 4's and 5's, helps on
      the Par 3's, think of a Par 3 as an approach shot.
    
    - Once around the green, forget about the pin, just get on the green.
    
    - When putting avoid 3 putts, get your 1st putt within 3ft of the hole.
      The distance on the 1st putt is more important then the line. Even
      if you mis-read a putt by 2 ft, if you have the correct distance, you
      have a 2 ft tap in. 
    
    
    Ron

    how can a guy who's never been very good at the game of golf
    have so much to say about what it take to play the game well????
    
    

Well, not being good at it has never stop anyone, just look at all the wealth of 
experience we enter here. :-)

His work is around the mental aspects of the game.  Isn't golf just a mind game?
...or should I say mental game?

John

    Well, if the guy really has the mental aspects of the game figured out,
    and if golf is really a mental game, then the guy should be a good
    golfer, right?
    
    I think the proper view is that golf is a mental game, ASSUMING basic
    physical skills are in place.
    
    But, what do I know?  I wouldn't call myself a good golfer.
    
    /Wayne

This response is not very PC and goes against
current sentiment -- but, IMHO, the mental aspect
of the game is over-rated.  If you took a good
right handed golfer who was "mentally in touch" and
asked him all of a sudden to play left handed - I don't
think he would shot very well.  His mental aspect isn't
going to help him.  If you don't have a good grooved swing,
then all the psych lessons in the world are not going to
help.

RE: .44 and .45

I completely agree with both replies.  As your scores get lower, it becomes
increasing difficult to shave off a few strokes here and there so you turn to
the mental aspect of the game for help.  If you can't hit a ball to begin with,
no amount of positive thinking will help.  The better you get, the more mental
this game becomes.   ;^)

John

    Golf, like any other sport is a combination of mind and body.  Practice
    will give the correct body mechanics.  Correct body mechanics should
    give results.  Good results should give positive feedback to the mind
    and this will help to get a good performance.  It's very easy to break
    this cycle and is very difficult to get it started.  Weekend golfers
    like us, don't have the time to practice "game situations".  So,
    instead of letting it flow, we improvise and most of the time that
    takes care of body mechanics, swing and the ball is in the *** woods.
    
    Jose

    RE: .46
    
    BINGO!  "The better you get, the more mental this game becomes."
    
    /Wayne

Your physical ability lets you play at a certain level when under no pressure.
Then, there is how you react under pressure. This is the "mind" part of the game.

Some people actually play better under pressure, but I think most will
get tight and make more mistakes under pressure. So, I think if you have
your mind under control, you can play your best. But, your best will depend
on how much natural ability you have, time you have to practice (correctly),...

Its easier to hit good shots at range, partially due to no pressure and mostly
due to muscle memory. Its also easier to score on a course when out just having
fun. Its harder to score in a match for $, even harder to play well trying to
qualify for a club championship, even harder on the last 6 hole  trying
to qualify in the state am, ...

I wonder what Craig Norman would say? :^)

    RE: .49
    
    Did you mean Greg Norman?  Or does Greg have a brother named Craig
    who's a "normal" golfer?
    
    Certainly, the mental aspect of golf differentiates one pro from
    another under pressure.  Moreover, for golfers of relatively equal
    physical skills, the mental aspect determines winners and losers.
    
    For a given level of ability, a proper positive mental attitude will
    always make you better.  But I don't think my mind is what keeps me off
    the PGA tour! :-)
    
    /Wayne

>>    how can a guy who's never been very good at the game of golf
>>    have so much to say about what it take to play the game well????
    
  
How can a big guy coach little women to do all those amazing things on the
balance beam, uneven parallel bars, etc???

If you haven't read the book, I suggest you borrow/buy a copy and read it.
The answer is inside<g>.

How many times have you seen a golfer/hacker take a driver out of the bag and
whack it straight into the woods/hazards/etc...? Then the same guy takes the
same driver out on the next hole and does the same thing? This is repeated
many times during play. The book got my attention about playing the course
as well as I can play it with the ability I bring with me on a given day.
The game is scored by counting strokes, not yardage.

Anyway, my $.02.....

    re: .51
    
    I think it was Trevino who said,
    
    "When the guy can beat me on the golf course I'll consider his
    advice or taking lessons from him..."

    re: .51
    
    I think it was Trevino who said,
    
    "When the guy can beat me on the golf course I'll consider his
    advice or taking lessons from him..."


Fine with me. We just agree to disagree.

    Bob ROtella's book is not just about playing under pressure, although
    that certainly is where you need a sound mental game. There are other
    aspects of the mental game that he focuses on. The big thing that I got
    out of his book is using your head for course management and shot
    selection. I will testify that "playing the shot I know I can hit"
    has saved me strokes time and again. Instead of trying to blast out of 
    the woods and ending up in worse trouble, I'll exercise a little
    discipline and chip out to the fairway and give myself a good lie and
    an excellent chance on my next shot.
    
    And he does emphasize the importance of practice to take care of the
    physical side of the game. I think his point is that a good golfer
    must have a complete arsenal of sound shots (the physical/practice
    side), and must also know how and when to apply them and how to manage
    a course layout (the mental side).
    
    I love playing against you guys and gals who think that today is the
    day you finally PDOOMA that 3-iron past 40 trees and onto the green
    180 yards away!
    
    Louise